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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    I'm not sure about 29+ or B fat but one of the two rather than 26" fat. I already have plenty of 26" fat stuff and I want this bike mostly for a non-snow bike with the benefit of fat tires.

    I plan to carry over my winter 26fat stuff to this bike if needed so I can compromise on winter worthiness if that means I can get something more suited to dirt.

    29+ will best complement your 26 fat stuff. 29+ is faster, more efficient, more fun if speed thrills are your thing.

    B Fat kinda splits the difference. Personally I've punted almost all of my 26 fat stuff. I ride 29+ when I want to cover ground efficiently. I ride B Fat when I want to act like a hooligan and get away with it, or when the snow is reasonably (or very) packed. I ride 26 fat only on the deepest, fluffiest snow days, when making forward progress means 1psi and a lot of patience.

  2. #602
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    I've run the Wozo at 100mm, 120mm, and at 140mm (current).

    If you like to jump and play and you plan to use the Wozo for all mountain riding, I'd go with more travel.

    The nice thing about the Mastodon fork is you can set the maximum travel to whatever you want (up to 150mm), then use the fork pump to reduce travel.

    29+ would give you the broadest range of uses, but for playfulness the 27+ is better, though bb height is an issue depending on where you ride.


    Edit:
    I run the SRAM GX Eagle 165mm cranks on both my bikes, pedal strike is reduced, they fit perfect, chainline is great with a Boost offset ring, I can even backpedal in my 46t without the chain skipping off the cog.

    On the Wozo I am using the "screw together" press fit bb by Wheels Manufacturing, works great, no creak whatsoever, spins smooth, a very high quality product.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioPT View Post
    29+ for sure, with a 120mm fork. Geometry is perfect for it. Go with 35'ish internal width rims and you can even mount 29 x 2.4-2.6 tires if you decide 29+ tires are not your thing (most who try 29+ stick with it though).
    This^^^
    I'm running a slightly longer 130mm Mastodon Pro Std (541mm A2C) and it's been perfect for me here on the Front Range in CO. I have the stock wheelset with the JJ's and then a 2nd set...29x3's (Chupas) on WTB i35's. I went for the i35's in the event I didn't like the 29+ tires, so I could still dial down to 2.5's if needed and still maintain a respectable BB height, but I've gotten on real well with the Chupas, so no plans to move to a smaller tire come spring/summer. I tried + tires on a longer travel 27.5 and hated it, but on a hardtail and in 29+ format it's bomber, fast with the dialed geom of the Wozo. I'm a a year in on this bike now and the versatility of this bike is just so nice. I really, really love this bike...so much more then I thought I would.

  4. #604
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    Thanks guys. I think I knew I wanted to try the 29+ and this all seals that thought. Here in the midwest the trails are about carrying speed, not rocky or too technical where I ride. So, it looks like I'll be going that way.

    I also decided on an XL frame. After looking over the numbers and suggestion so many times and still not quite understanding all of it I took the time and sketch out my current bike and the Wozo in AutoCad. I have never felt like a bike was big enough for me but I'm not generally over the suggested sizing at 6'4" tall. But there's a couple things I'd really like in a bike. I wanted a longer front from crank to bar and more rider area while seated than any of my current bikes. And, the short CS will be much livelier and has become a requirement. So going through this exercise really helped me understand the differences between what I have now and the large vs XL Wozo.

    I'm sure my numbers are off a couple mm here and there on my sketch but I can live with the error factors. I learned that you better take every dimension into account when comparing bikes and that it's really easy to overlook some things. Top tube length and reach which are common numbers I see people referring to simply don't tell enough about what's going on with the big picture. Then there is also the unknown of just how good the published geo numbers on each bike are and if they were measured in the same manner from one brand to the next. All this means that I need to consider that my numbers are really +/- a bit but do give a generally good idea of the differences.

    I'm not too concerned with standover because I don't ride in truly deep snow. And, my Felt DD had a pretty high top tube that I was able to work with so I'm familiar with the process. So, I didn't concern myself with this when deciding.

    Cliff notes of what I'll get out of an XL Wozo:

    • Moving from a 65mm to 40mm stem will net a 40mm longer crank to bar position (not reach as normally measured on geo charts). I like this because when I stand my arms go almost straight down from my shoulder to the bars, or that's what it feels like anyway. This should give me a better angle on them.
    • The steeper seat tube moves me forward over the cranks by ~12mm. This will be good because I sometimes feel like I'm pushing the pedals forward on the current bike.
    • Seat to bar length is about 28mm longer than my current bike with the seat tube angle of the Wozo. That'll stretch me out some but not drastically. I feel a bit too upright on the current bikes.


    With the Large Wozo the crank to bar position with a 40mm stem is about 5mm longer than my current bike, not much really. But, the seat to bar is 10mm shorter so a Large Wozo will have a bit less rider room than I have now. I could go back to the 65mm stem like I have now but really I like the shorter stems and want to be on a bike that allows me to use them. I've ridden with a 40 and 50mm quite a bit but they just make all my current bikes too small for me. So, I ordered the XL, done, no going back now.

    Did I over think this. Yep, I sure did! Thanks for paying attention if you got this far into rant.

  5. #605
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    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-gr001-3706_wozo-1024.jpg

    I built up a B-fat wheelset for the Wozo: DT Swiss hubs to Jackalopes with a Gnarwhal in front (studded with 45nrth XL studs) and a Cake Eater in back (factory studded with Terrene triple crown studs).

    As others have said, the Gnarwhal is huge. Newly mounted I measured 111mm knobs and 109mm casing (just about the same width as the Edna 4.3 I was running in the back), the diameter, with XL studs, is 31" (~787mm) - nearly a full inch larger than the Minion FBF 4.8 (~762mm) I was using in front.

    So far no contact with the Mantitou STD comp crown but I'm planning on adding 10mm worth of bottom out spacers to be safe.

    The Cake Eater measured 97mm knobs and 96mm casing on the 80mm rims - so 3.8 out of the box. At ~760mm diameter it is taller than the Edna (~750mm) and just shy of the Minion 4.8.

    Despite the extra 10mm diameter the Cake Eater has more chainstay clearance than the Edna did with the dropouts in the same position due to the narrower width.

    Based on the fresh dimensions the 4.5 Gnarwhal just might squeeze in the back, but add studs and stretching and I think you'd be risking a gouged frame. It may be doable on a 65mm rim.

    I posted some ride impressions on the Cake Eater here.
    Last edited by david.p; 01-19-2018 at 11:18 AM.

  6. #606
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    I've been running the Gnarwall 4.5 on Jackalopes, fit is fine.

    BTW: I'm considering selling my brand new, Mikesee built Barbe 4.5/Jackalope/DT Swiss wheelset. I'm just not riding snow as much as I did in WA, so I'm getting a 29+ wheelset.

    Send a PM if interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I built up a B-fat wheelset for the Wozo: DT Swiss hubs to Jackalopes with a Gnarwhal in front (studded with 45nrth XL studs) and a Cake Eater in back (factory studded with Terrene triple crown studs).

    As others have said, the Gnarwhal is huge. Newly mounted I measured 111mm knobs and 109mm casing (just about the same width as the Edna 4.3 I was running in the back), the diameter, with XL studs, is 31" (~787mm) - nearly a full inch larger than the Minion FBF 4.8 (~762mm) I was using in front.

    So far no contact with the Mantitou STD comp crown but I'm planning on adding 10mm worth of bottom out spacers to be safe.

    The Cake Eater measured 97mm knobs and 96mm casing on the 80mm rims - so 3.8 out of the box. At ~760mm diameter it is taller than the Edna (~750mm) and just shy of the Minion 4.8.

    Despite the extra 10mm diameter the Cake Eater has more chainstay clearance than the Edna did with the dropouts in the same position due to the narrower width.

    Based on the fresh dimensions the 4.5 Gnarwhal just might squeeze in the back, but add studs and stretching and I think you'd be risking a gouged frame. It may be doable on a 65mm rim.

    I posted some ride impressions on the Cake Eater here.
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 01-19-2018 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Wrong tire, duh

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I've been running the Gnarwall 4.5 on Jackalopes, fit is fine.
    Ben, are you running Gnarwhals are Barbegazis? I've seen pics of your bike with Barbegazis, didn't know you switched to Gnarwhals. Gnarwhal has same casing as the Barbe but bigger knobs so even less clearance, then add studs.

  8. #608
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    Yeah, Barbes, I was spacing out when I wrote that message.

    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Ben, are you running Gnarwhals are Barbegazis? I've seen pics of your bike with Barbegazis, didn't know you switched to Gnarwhals. Gnarwhal has same casing as the Barbe but bigger knobs so even less clearance, then add studs.

  9. #609
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    Issues with my Mastodon, so reinstalled the Fox 34. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite! Handling is great with 140mm travel. Dunderbeist 4.6 rear was rubbing the chain in lower gears, so back to the VanHelga which does quite well for a 4.0 tire.

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_20180123_195640_910.jpg

    Enjoying this bike more every ride. Looking forward to 29+ testing. Never did get comfortable with the 27.5x3.8 FBR/FBF combo.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Issues with my Mastodon, so reinstalled the Fox 34. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite! Handling is great with 140mm travel. Dunderbeist 4.6 rear was rubbing the chain in lower gears, so back to the VanHelga which does quite well for a 4.0 tire.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow, impressed that fork fits that combo!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Enjoying this bike more every ride. Looking forward to 29+ testing. Never did get comfortable with the 27.5x3.8 FBR/FBF combo.
    Cool rig. Can totally relate to the 'enjoying it more every ride' take. Curious about the 27.5 opinion - was it the tires? Something else you didn't like?

  12. #612
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    I've splurged and got a Bike Yoke 185mm dropper on order for my Wozo. It's about 2x the cost I could get a 150mm dropper for but the extra room looks like it will be incredible to have when wanted. I had never heard of Bike Yoke before but the reviews look really good for the them in general and I figure I'm only doing this once if it works as suggested.

    And, there is a drawing of the dropper online that I was able to use to confirm that it should fit the XL frame with the seat position I need which I was able to confirm now that I have the frame in hand. I hope my measurements are right!

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vi...per-Posts,1762

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Cool rig. Can totally relate to the 'enjoying it more every ride' take. Curious about the 27.5 opinion - was it the tires? Something else you didn't like?
    Felt like I couldn't get the B-fat setup dialed in terms of psi and fork tuning. FWIW didn't like them on my Fatillac either. Probably need to further test before throwing in the towel. FBR/FBF on Scrapers are tiiiight, takes me 40 minutes to install/remove a tire, worse than Hodags for that.

    Hopeful that 27.5+ or 29+ will be great, ala Big Honzo. Plenty of wheels and tires to play with.

  14. #614
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    Been riding my Wozo for 17 months now and absolutely love it! I put a Manitou Mastodon (set at 140) on it last fall and could not be happier with the bike! I've been running a Bud and Nate during the winter and then JJs during the summer and have been planning on switching to Maxxis tires this summer. However, after following this thread I'm now wondering if I should run 29er+ or even 27.5 Fat for summer riding. Bikepacking, Maah Daah Hey 150 style races, and lots of desert and Rocky Mountain riding is what I typically enjoy. I have a Krampus in the quiver now but I love my Wozo more. Thinking having 2 sets of wheels for the Wozo might better serve my needs. What do you all think, 29er+ or 27.5 Fat as a complimentary set of wheels?

  15. #615
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    Sell the Krampus and use that money to lace up a really nice 29+ or B-fat wheelset, that's what I'd do.

    Still contemplating which format to choose micelf.

  16. #616
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    ^^ +1
    Since you know you like 29+, I'd go there first. Then decide if you want to try 27.5x3.8 later.

    I'll probably end up with three wheelsets for my Wozo (27.5x80mm, 27.5x50mm, and 29x45mm).

  17. #617
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    29+ for sure, the 27+ is a pedal dragger even with a 140mm fork.

    Down the road you should ditch the 26Ē for a 27.5 x 50, then youíd have a wheelset to use for 27+ and b fat.

    ... and sell the Krampus, the Wozo is a far better riding bike in every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikemusher View Post
    Been riding my Wozo for 17 months now and absolutely love it! I put a Manitou Mastodon (set at 140) on it last fall and could not be happier with the bike! I've been running a Bud and Nate during the winter and then JJs during the summer and have been planning on switching to Maxxis tires this summer. However, after following this thread I'm now wondering if I should run 29er+ or even 27.5 Fat for summer riding. Bikepacking, Maah Daah Hey 150 style races, and lots of desert and Rocky Mountain riding is what I typically enjoy. I have a Krampus in the quiver now but I love my Wozo more. Thinking having 2 sets of wheels for the Wozo might better serve my needs. What do you all think, 29er+ or 27.5 Fat as a complimentary set of wheels?

  18. #618
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    Thanks for the input! I'm worried the 27.5 Fat would be too similar to what I already have. The 29+ is appealing for the speed but I sure would miss that big ol' soft back tire. Thinking options are nice.

    You guys that are running your Mastodon at 140 are you also running the same size tires or still 4" in the back and 5" up front? I assume the 29+ would be equal?

  19. #619
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    Thereís no reason to run different tire widths, the stock mixed tired combo is some wierdness Kona did because they specíd the bike with a rim width that made a 5Ē rear tire to wide for the frame.

    I run the same tire sizes front and rear. You just need to make sure your tire/rim combo is not too wide, for example a Minion 4.8 on a 65mm rim fits fine as does a Barbe 4.5 on an 80mm rim.

    The dropouts need to be slid back for bigger wheels, half way for 29+, all the way back for Barbe 4.5, all the way forward for b fats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikemusher View Post
    Thanks for the input! I'm worried the 27.5 Fat would be too similar to what I already have. The 29+ is appealing for the speed but I sure would miss that big ol' soft back tire. Thinking options are nice.

    You guys that are running your Mastodon at 140 are you also running the same size tires or still 4" in the back and 5" up front? I assume the 29+ would be equal?

  20. #620
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    Awesome thread!

    So I'm jumping into a build feet first blind!

    I used to take my Haro DJ to Rays when they were around, but now I've moved and Rays is closed so I sold that bike and sold another to fund a new fatbike DJ around the Wozo. I also really wanted something I could run 2 wheelsets, a 26" 4.5"-ish for the winter, and a 29x3 for the summer.

    Basically bought the frame and started sketching out the build. I'm particular to Hayes and Manitou because they are out of Milwaukee too and I've had really really good luck with all their products in the past.

    I need help critiquing before I finialize the order and start getting parts.

    I wasnt certain if the Mastadon Pro 120 EXT is appropriate or not, or if I could go with just the STD fork. I though running 5" up front would be fine for snow.

    Also, on my DJ I had a 34/16 setup, and just based on that and using a gear inch calculation, came up with just shifting to 34/20 gear setup.

    I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam.

    2018 Kona Wozo L *ordered
    ss spacers *orderd
    kmc hl810 *ordered
    Origin8 Ultim8 Single Speed 6-Bolt & Cassette Cog - 20T *ordered
    cane creek 110 zs44 zs56 *ordered

    2018 Manitou Mastadon pro ext 120mm
    Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl front
    Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl rear
    Sun Ringle Duroc 50 29 <------ going to build this into the 29+ wheel
    sun ringle src 150 hub
    sun ringle src 170 hub
    Answer protaper carbon bars
    answer ame stem 30mm
    answer fall line grips
    Hayes prime comp brakes front
    Hayes prime comp brakes rear
    Hayes L-series rotor 160mm
    Hayes L-series rotor 180mm
    rim strips
    2018 Transfer P-SE, A, ō 31.6mm, 150mm Drop, Internal Routing, 456mm TLG, AM
    2018_17 AM, Transfer Lever Assembly: 1x Remote, Left/Right
    Raceface affect sl 175mm 170mm
    RaceFace PF121
    wolftooth narrow wide cinch 34t
    Surly Edna 26 x 4.3
    Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0
    wtb volt pro saddle

  21. #621
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    No need for EXT, the STD fits 29+, but to be safe you can add a 10mm spacer which is half the added A-C you get from an EXT.

    Also, you can increase fork travel to 150mm, then reduce it using a shock pump, so my suggestion is increase travel to 140mm, then play around until you find your sweet spot; I like mine 140mm

    Tire choice: Chronicles are quite possibly the worst 29er tire ever created. Minions, DW, anything but Chronicles.

    The Wozo has a very low bb, so I'd suggest 170's at the minimum.

    Wheel size...if you want the DJ feel, 27+ is where you want to be. 29+ is a , very, very tall tire, does not ride like a DJ; rides like a 29+. For 27+ I'd highly recomend a 165mm crank; I run SRAM GX.

    27.5 x 3 is ~ the same height as a 26 x 4.

    29+ is about the same size as a 27.5 x 4.5

    You might be able to swing a 175mm dropper.

    Single speed? If you insist

    Quote Originally Posted by captainmorgan View Post
    Awesome thread!

    So I'm jumping into a build feet first blind!

    I used to take my Haro DJ to Rays when they were around, but now I've moved and Rays is closed so I sold that bike and sold another to fund a new fatbike DJ around the Wozo. I also really wanted something I could run 2 wheelsets, a 26" 4.5"-ish for the winter, and a 29x3 for the summer.

    Basically bought the frame and started sketching out the build. I'm particular to Hayes and Manitou because they are out of Milwaukee too and I've had really really good luck with all their products in the past.

    I need help critiquing before I finialize the order and start getting parts.

    I wasnt certain if the Mastadon Pro 120 EXT is appropriate or not, or if I could go with just the STD fork. I though running 5" up front would be fine for snow.

    Also, on my DJ I had a 34/16 setup, and just based on that and using a gear inch calculation, came up with just shifting to 34/20 gear setup.

    I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam.

    2018 Kona Wozo L *ordered
    ss spacers *orderd
    kmc hl810 *ordered
    Origin8 Ultim8 Single Speed 6-Bolt & Cassette Cog - 20T *ordered
    cane creek 110 zs44 zs56 *ordered

    2018 Manitou Mastadon pro ext 120mm
    Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl front
    Sun Ringle Mulefut 80 sl rear
    Sun Ringle Duroc 50 29 <------ going to build this into the 29+ wheel
    sun ringle src 150 hub
    sun ringle src 170 hub
    Answer protaper carbon bars
    answer ame stem 30mm
    answer fall line grips
    Hayes prime comp brakes front
    Hayes prime comp brakes rear
    Hayes L-series rotor 160mm
    Hayes L-series rotor 180mm
    rim strips
    2018 Transfer P-SE, A, ō 31.6mm, 150mm Drop, Internal Routing, 456mm TLG, AM
    2018_17 AM, Transfer Lever Assembly: 1x Remote, Left/Right
    Raceface affect sl 175mm 170mm
    RaceFace PF121
    wolftooth narrow wide cinch 34t
    Surly Edna 26 x 4.3
    Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0
    wtb volt pro saddle

  22. #622
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    I've got a couple of the stock WTB Volt Kona branded saddles available that came off my wife and my Wozo's if you're interested in one for your build.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    No need for EXT, the STD fits 29+, but to be safe you can add a 10mm spacer which is half the added A-C you get from an EXT.

    Also, you can increase fork travel to 150mm, then reduce it using a shock pump, so my suggestion is increase travel to 140mm, then play around until you find your sweet spot; I like mine 140mm

    Tire choice: Chronicles are quite possibly the worst 29er tire ever created. Minions, DW, anything but Chronicles.

    The Wozo has a very low bb, so I'd suggest 170's at the minimum.

    Wheel size...if you want the DJ feel, 27+ is where you want to be. 29+ is a , very, very tall tire, does not ride like a DJ; rides like a 29+. For 27+ I'd highly recomend a 165mm crank; I run SRAM GX.

    27.5 x 3 is ~ the same height as a 26 x 4.

    29+ is about the same size as a 27.5 x 4.5

    You might be able to swing a 175mm dropper.

    Single speed? If you insist
    Eh, Singlespeed works here, no real elevation to climb, and what there is is short and punchy. If the ratio I have picked out works as expected, I wont even notice it.

    The max on the Fox Transfer is 150mm.... so thats the best I can get, I'll play around with insertion on it.

    I really was confused on the STD vs EXT

    I'll look into the 27.5+ wheels. I know on my FS trail bike, I instantly regretted not getting the 27.5+ size as I wanted high volume tires immediately and maxed out at 2.8"

    I'll look into tires too! lol

  24. #624
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    Super simple:

    The EXT has 20mm longer stanchions than the STD, but this extra length is not usable, all it does is add an inch of tire clearance.

    The STD clears 29+ and 5Ē tires, but itís cutting it close in some combinations. You can take the risk (as I do) or you can add a 10mm spacer to limit compression. In this configuration you have a maximum of 140mm of travel.

    The only reason to get an EXT is if you want more A to C, you want more clearance AND you want 150mm travel, or you like the way it looks

    Quote Originally Posted by captainmorgan View Post
    Eh, Singlespeed works here, no real elevation to climb, and what there is is short and punchy. If the ratio I have picked out works as expected, I wont even notice it.

    The max on the Fox Transfer is 150mm.... so thats the best I can get, I'll play around with insertion on it.

    I really was confused on the STD vs EXT

    I'll look into the 27.5+ wheels. I know on my FS trail bike, I instantly regretted not getting the 27.5+ size as I wanted high volume tires immediately and maxed out at 2.8"

    I'll look into tires too! lol

  25. #625
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    My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?

  26. #626
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    A better one the second time around

    Not RF, e13 is okay. I run SRAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider View Post
    My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider View Post
    My wozo bottom bracket is worn out. Does anyone know which one I need to order?
    I usually just replace the bearings with a better quality if possible.

  28. #628
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    How many miles have people been getting on the RF BB bearings?

  29. #629
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    Anyone have experience with this Wheels Manufacturing "threaded" bottom bracket as an upgrade in their WOZO? https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracket...nks-black.html

  30. #630
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    This is the one that I ordered.

    https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracket...nks-black.html

    Ill chime in when I get it installed.

  31. #631
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    Yup, running one now, works great.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Anyone have experience with this Wheels Manufacturing "threaded" bottom bracket as an upgrade in their WOZO? https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracket...nks-black.html

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    I've splurged and got a Bike Yoke 185mm dropper on order for my Wozo. It's about 2x the cost I could get a 150mm dropper for but the extra room looks like it will be incredible to have when wanted. I had never heard of Bike Yoke before but the reviews look really good for the them in general and I figure I'm only doing this once if it works as suggested.

    And, there is a drawing of the dropper online that I was able to use to confirm that it should fit the XL frame with the seat position I need which I was able to confirm now that I have the frame in hand. I hope my measurements are right!

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vi...per-Posts,1762
    I just put a 125 on my medium Wozo. I wanted the 160 but it wouldnít fit. The seat tube being curved limits the insertion.

  33. #633
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    Has anyone owned or ridden both the Wozo and the Honzo? How different are they?

    Iíve been thinking of building up a 27.5+ wheelset for the Wozo. From everything Iíve read here it will be really low. Iím on the stock bluto. How much will it drop it? Not a lot of technical stuff where I ride. Mostly flow trails. Does 29+ fit the bluto ok?

    Then the more I thought about building the wheels, the more I thought maybe another bike makes more sense. Thatís where the honzo question comes in. Considering saving the cost of the wheelset, selling my Kona Precept which has barely been ridden since I got the Wozo, and buying either the honzo AL/DL or going all out on the CR DL.

    Once last question. If I do go with a wheelset how easy is switching back and forth. Do the brakes and rear derailleur need adjustment every time you go back and forth?

  34. #634
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    If you see yourself wanting to switch wheels often enough a 2nd bike makes sense. I'm planning on doing mostly seasonal changes with winter B-fat studded tires (4-4.5s on 80mm rims), spring/fall B-fat (3.8s on 50mm rims), and summer 29+ (3" on 45mm rims).

    If the wheels use the same rubs and rotors you shouldn't need much/any adjustment after the swap. I'm planning on moving a single cassette between wheels since it won't add much time to the swap.

  35. #635
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    I tried moving the rear wheel forward in the dropouts on my wife's Wozo earlier and had a big fat fail. The tensioner bolts for sliding dropouts just wouldn't move, is there a knack I'm missing?

    With a hex inserted into the end of them (2.5mm I think...) neither of them would move at all, am I supposed to be finding a tiny wrench for the nut instead??
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  36. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement View Post
    I tried moving the rear wheel forward in the dropouts on my wife's Wozo earlier and had a big fat fail. The tensioner bolts for sliding dropouts just wouldn't move, is there a knack I'm missing?

    With a hex inserted into the end of them (2.5mm I think...) neither of them would move at all, am I supposed to be finding a tiny wrench for the nut instead??
    I had to double nut mine to get them to move. Take the nut off one, put it on the other tight against the one already on it and turn the inside one. Mine had thread lock on it which kept it from moving easily.

    oddly enough I just had a look at mine and the threaded piece and nut is missing from both sides now. Guess the thread lock was doing something. I donít think they serve much purpose though.

  37. #637
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    Is the frame dropout also threaded to hold the threaded rod?
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement View Post
    Is the frame dropout also threaded to hold the threaded rod?
    Yes, and thatís where there was thread lock which made it hard to remove the first time.

  39. #639
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    I guess I'll just have to try harder...I couldn't find a wrench small enough to attack the nuts during the last attempt.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  40. #640
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    Yes, I've ridden the Honzo, also had a Taro.

    You're talking apples and oranges, Honzo is 29 specific, steel, 73mm bb, etc...

    You can ride the Wozo 27+, but you will be low, but whether it's too low kinda depends on where you ride. If you run a long travel fork it will be fine most everywhere.

    You don't need a Wozo. Dump the Bluto, get a Mastodon, bump it to 140mm, then get your wheels.

    If you want 29+, the Wozo works, but the Honzo doesn't. Big Honzo would work, but honestly a 29+ Wozo with a long travel fork makes more sense since you have that bike now.

    I switch wheels all the time, take two sets with me on trips.

    Wheel and brake adjustment depends on whether your two wheelsets are alike enough in offset, etc... I generally adjust the brakes each time, derraileur sometimes, but I have two bikes, three wheelsets, and two hub styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJayL View Post
    Has anyone owned or ridden both the Wozo and the Honzo? How different are they?

    Iíve been thinking of building up a 27.5+ wheelset for the Wozo. From everything Iíve read here it will be really low. Iím on the stock bluto. How much will it drop it? Not a lot of technical stuff where I ride. Mostly flow trails. Does 29+ fit the bluto ok?

    Then the more I thought about building the wheels, the more I thought maybe another bike makes more sense. Thatís where the honzo question comes in. Considering saving the cost of the wheelset, selling my Kona Precept which has barely been ridden since I got the Wozo, and buying either the honzo AL/DL or going all out on the CR DL.

    Once last question. If I do go with a wheelset how easy is switching back and forth. Do the brakes and rear derailleur need adjustment every time you go back and forth?

  41. #641
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    POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.

    Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.


    Posting here because my question is Wozo specific.
    I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$.

    I can see a few changes you discuss with the Wozo such as 165mm cranks, the longer travel sus, wheel sets, and so on.
    What in particular do you feel sucks about the OEM builds for the Wozo, and is it something that I could gradually change over time (like the crappy BB after it fails)?
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  42. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new....
    While I don't agree that the complete build "kinda sucks", it's not an amazing value for $2500. If you can get a complete for that price, just get it. You can change things as you find them limiting or wear them out.

    I built my Wozo from a frame because I wanted to change enough parts to make it worthwhile. I wanted 30t front and 11-46 instead of the 28t and 11-42 on the complete. I wanted a Mastodon instead of a Bluto. I wanted a larger rear tire (Surly Edna 4.3).

  43. #643
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    The question begs the answer, ie what parts in the OEM build (any OEM build) ARE worth keeping?

    For one, the 26" wheels are neither high quality nor the ideal size. I'd go BFat or 27.5 x 4.5 or 29+

    As far as the balance of the bike, NX level drive train and RS cranks are serviceable but entry level. Cockpit is low end stuff. Bluto is not worth having, hard to resell. So really, other than the frame, it's not a groupo I'd build.

    Like Davidp said, it's not a great deal. That said, it is a great frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.

    Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.


    Posting here because my question is Wozo specific.
    I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$.

    I can see a few changes you discuss with the Wozo such as 165mm cranks, the longer travel sus, wheel sets, and so on.
    What in particular do you feel sucks about the OEM builds for the Wozo, and is it something that I could gradually change over time (like the crappy BB after it fails)?

  44. #644
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    Fair enough... buying a frame and building up to your (or similar) suggested spec would run at least the same as suggested retail (and probably quite a bit more)... I don't have the luxury of a deep parts bin or deep pockets to buy a higher end build from scratch; my thought at this point is to get the $1200 OEM build, but then gradually replace as I can.
    I suspect some of the elements that feel crappy to you won't feel as crappy to a much less experienced rider such as myself (my bikes are in my sig), but that I will appreciate gradually upgrading the bike as parts break and/or I find I want to go another direction (such as a fairly costly but potentially game-changing wheelset).
    The option of buying a frame and building up from there would mean for me personally probably taking another year to get the funds and parts for such a build. Perhaps not a bad idea, but....

    TLDR: Ya'll have told me that the frame is the reason to buy the Wozo and pretty much everything else is replaceable. I can start with OEM for a very good price and upgrade over the next couple years and let the bike grow with me.

    Thanks for the input. I'll ponder.
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  45. #645
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    Imho I think $1200 is a smoking good geal for a complete Wozo and personally I would jump on it.

  46. #646
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    At $1200 I wouldn't bat an eye and would definitely purchase the stock build! It is essentially another $600 over the frame only option and you get a complete bike. Also, this gives you the option to upgrade as time and money allow. Lastly, you can keep the extra wheelset as a backup with another set of tires on it if you do decide to go B Fat. I don't own a Wozo but am beginning to wish I did...and might in the not so distant future!!!

  47. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohrgan View Post
    It is essentially another $600 over the frame only option and you get a complete bike.!
    Actually only $500 more than $699 frame price now.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  48. #648
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    Forums are great for gleaning information on your interests. I've learned a lot. One of the problems is that it sows the seeds for discontent. All of a sudden you want something you don't have, and then what you have isn't good enough-even though it is, and there are people that will reinforce that. It's a part of human nature.

    The wozo is a fine bike. Everything works. Brakes work, shifters work, drive train works, rims are solid, tires are good, cranks good, chain ring good, cassette works just fine. Bottom bracket may or may not be replaced, but so far, good. Bluto is probably just fine unless you really want to do so major drops.

    All parts will eventually wear out, maybe not for many, many miles, and that's the time to replace.

    Fit is a personal thing, and with a complete bike, you have a starting point. If it doesn't fit, without buying things at retail that may or may not work. $1200 for a wozo is an amazing buy.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$.
    PhdPepper: That's a great price. If it's not stealing your deal, can you tell me you'll get this from. While I'm not in Germany, German stores often have reasonable shipping costs to Australia.

    Thanks Tim

  50. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpyride View Post
    Forums are great for gleaning information on your interests. I've learned a lot. One of the problems is that it sows the seeds for discontent. All of a sudden you want something you don't have, and then what you have isn't good enough-even though it is, and there are people that will reinforce that. It's a part of human nature.
    This. +1. Ride bikes have fun...newest tire size, newest fork...not thinking this will change my life.

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpyride View Post
    $1200 for a wozo is an amazing buy.
    No brainer. Ride it as is - upgrade later. Part it out - upgrade now. Either way there is absolutely no reason to not jump on that deal provided you want the Wozo.

  52. #652
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    $1200?

    Are you sure? Thatís less than cost, Kona has a very low dealer margin. Like others said, for $1200 itís a good deal, but youíre still gonna have s bunch of mediocre parts. Might make sense to part it out and build from the leftovers.

    Iím picky, I build my bikes from scratch, even the wheels, so I personally wouldnít keep any parts from an OEM Wozo. If the Wozo came with a Mastodon, 27.5 wheels, and GX drivetrain, thatíd be a much better OEM build.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    POSTED by Nurse Ben: All three of the bikes you picked will ride about the same without suspension, but the Wozo will ride the best with suspension; should you chose to go that route down the road.

    Build your bike from a frame set, the OEM builds kinda suck.


    Posting here because my question is Wozo specific.
    I have an opportunity to buy the OEM off the shelf Wozo for about $1200 new.... getting a frame and components shipped to Germany would be way more $$.

    I can see a few changes you discuss with the Wozo such as 165mm cranks, the longer travel sus, wheel sets, and so on.
    What in particular do you feel sucks about the OEM builds for the Wozo, and is it something that I could gradually change over time (like the crappy BB after it fails)?

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    PhdPepper: That's a great price. If it's not stealing your deal, can you tell me you'll get this from. While I'm not in Germany, German stores often have reasonable shipping costs to Australia.

    Thanks Tim
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    No brainer. Ride it as is - upgrade later. Part it out - upgrade now. Either way there is absolutely no reason to not jump on that deal provided you want the Wozo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    $1200?

    Are you sure? Thatís less than cost, Kona has a very low dealer margin. Like others said, for $1200 itís a good deal, but youíre still gonna have s bunch of mediocre parts. Might make sense to part it out and build from the leftovers.

    Iím picky, I build my bikes from scratch, even the wheels, so I personally wouldnít keep any parts from an OEM Wozo. If the Wozo came with a Mastodon, 27.5 wheels, and GX drivetrain, thatíd be a much better OEM build.
    Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point
    Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos.
    For some reason they're still not moving the fatties so they've dropped the price.... AND I can get a 30% employee discount. Final tally is $1200 USD.
    Unless they sell out in the next month (they've had them for several months), I should be able to pick one up soon. It sounds like the consensus aligns with my thoughts; purchase now, upgrade as I can (can't argue with the desire for better components especially the ones you mention NB).
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  54. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point
    Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos.
    For some reason they're still not moving the fatties so they've dropped the price.... AND I can get a 30% employee discount. Final tally is $1200 USD.
    Unless they sell out in the next month (they've had them for several months), I should be able to pick one up soon. It sounds like the consensus aligns with my thoughts; purchase now, upgrade as I can (can't argue with the desire for better components especially the ones you mention NB).
    Just do it! Ride now and upgrade later! Yes, there is satisfaction in building your own bike from hand selected components but your opportunity to get the Wozo at that price negates all of that.

  55. #655
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    $1200? If you don't like it for that money I'll take it off your hands for what you pay. That's a steal.

  56. #656
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    OK, finally getting my Wozo together. I don't have any actual trail time on it yet but it feels really nice around the house. It's on 26" fat right now because that's what I had here. I'm waiting on a set of 29+ wheels/tires for it based on some suggestions here.

    The Bike Yoke 185mm dropper fits with about 5-10mm to spare for my height (6'-4") on the XL frame. The dropper and lever are very nice but the cable is kinda cheap and holds the kink from shipping a little. Works fine but looks a bit off in spots.

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-tmc_8787-xl.jpg

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-tmc_8800-xl.jpg

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-tmc_8803-xl.jpg

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-tmc_8793-xl.jpg

  57. #657
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    Look at them bars!

    You need to get some B Fats on that sucker, waay fun for going fast and hitting big lines.

    I got some 29+ coming, decided I was done with fat-fat, just not getting enough snow time these days and I wanna bikepack this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    OK, finally getting my Wozo together. I don't have any actual trail time on it yet but it feels really nice around the house. It's on 26" fat right now because that's what I had here. I'm waiting on a set of 29+ wheels/tires for it based on some suggestions here.

    The Bike Yoke 185mm dropper fits with about 5-10mm to spare for my height (6'-4") on the XL frame. The dropper and lever are very nice but the cable is kinda cheap and holds the kink from shipping a little. Works fine but looks a bit off in spots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhdPepper View Post
    Ok - seems like we're all on the same page at this point
    Yes, I'm sure because it's a military purchase (sorry Wombat) for a very large bulk buy through MWR, and my understanding is that Kona was a little pissed because they also screwed up their price on the Wozos.
    Thanks for the advice PhdPepper; it's always nice when things fall into place and we get a good deal. I'm sure you'll enjoy the bike.

    Tim

  59. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Look at them bars!

    You need to get some B Fats on that sucker, waay fun for going fast and hitting big lines.

    I got some 29+ coming, decided I was done with fat-fat, just not getting enough snow time these days and I wanna bikepack this year.
    Yeah, my poor lower back doesn't tolerate a flat bar anymore. Those big bars give me a good chopper feel! haha

    I'm giving the 29+ a try for a while before doing anything else with it. Just need them to show up.

  60. #660
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    For those who have tried both 26" and 650B rims on this bike, what were your impressions of both?

  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    Thanks for the advice PhdPepper; it's always nice when things fall into place and we get a good deal. I'm sure you'll enjoy the bike.

    Tim
    Thanks guys!
    I should get to pick it up some time next week - I was able to ride one for a second time (just around the shop) yesterday and love the feel of it!
    I look forward to riding it as is... and to plenty more time tweaking it to make it perfect!
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  62. #662
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    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-1f79c97c-2726-4c7c-b44d-5d5cf843155a.jpg

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-bef45e50-b8f7-4994-aea8-bff514d5758b.jpg

  63. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ^ This pic is the 27.5 3.8 BFat DHF? I think I could get used to that.

  64. #664
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    Could almost post this in the sub-1000 dollar thread!
    Still can't believe I was able to get the whole setup for the price.
    Well, very excited to drive home with a new Wozo yesterday along with some new gear.
    Was able to play around in the parking lot a bit and really enjoying the ease of hopping and popping compared to my other fatties. Probably will enjoy for this summer mostly as is and then gradually add a 27.5 wheelset and other parts.
    In any case, stoked to be a part of the baby blue Wozo family!
    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-25-feb-18-wozo-garage.jpgKona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-25-feb-18-wozo-overhead.jpg
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  65. #665
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    That's a fantastic deal, I thought wifey and I had done well paying ~$2k each for ours.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  66. #666
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    Yup, makes for a good all around ride, not heavy, pretty quick, downhills like a bomb, doesn't ride like a fat bike, feels more like a monster BMXer.

    I was running a 35mm stem in this pic, just swapped back to a 45mm; it was just a tad twitchy and the front end was coming up a bit too often.

    I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    ^ This pic is the 27.5 3.8 BFat DHF? I think I could get used to that.

  67. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.
    Thanks man. If you could do it again, would you go with a wider rim? 65mm?

    Pretty sure my next bike project will be summer wheelset for Wozo.... at some point anyway.

  68. #668
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    Nah, 50mm is justy right, nice profile, great rim protection, no extra weight.

    I ran Minion 4.8's on 65mm Large Marge, it was a good size and it fit the Wozo. I think a 65mm rim on a 3.8" tire would expose the rim to rock shots The B Fat tires are closer to 3.6-3.7 anyhow, so not that big.

    I use 40mm for true 3" tires and like the ride, sure I could use 50mm if I wanted, but they work well so that there's no need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Thanks man. If you could do it again, would you go with a wider rim? 65mm?

    Pretty sure my next bike project will be summer wheelset for Wozo.... at some point anyway.

  69. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yup, makes for a good all around ride, not heavy, pretty quick, downhills like a bomb, doesn't ride like a fat bike, feels more like a monster BMXer.

    I was running a 35mm stem in this pic, just swapped back to a 45mm; it was just a tad twitchy and the front end was coming up a bit too often.

    I got a FBF up front and a Crown Gem 3.8 out back, mounted on Duroc 50's.
    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement View Post
    That's a fantastic deal, I thought wifey and I had done well paying ~$2k each for ours.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Nah, 50mm is justy right, nice profile, great rim protection, no extra weight.

    I ran Minion 4.8's on 65mm Large Marge, it was a good size and it fit the Wozo. I think a 65mm rim on a 3.8" tire would expose the rim to rock shots The B Fat tires are closer to 3.6-3.7 anyhow, so not that big.

    I use 40mm for true 3" tires and like the ride, sure I could use 50mm if I wanted, but they work well so that there's no need.
    I thought earlier you had said you really liked the Barbis 4.8 on 65mm?
    Is that just for snow? Since I just got the stock minions on 26x80, I'll want to think carefully and save for my next wheelset - willing to go 27.5x50mm but want to try to get it right the first time
    2016 Trek Farley 5 "Farley"
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  70. #670
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    Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.

    Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
    27.5x80mm for snow/ice
    27.5x50mm for dirt/rocks

    I'm loving the Wozo and am doing one of each as well as a 29+ wheelset. It's a bit much but they each have a different purpose.

    If you are only doing one B-fat wheelset and want to ride year round I'd probably go 80mm and switch tires (again, I want studs in Winter), though if your snow needs are light then 65mm could work (if you want carbon or can find some Mulefuts). If they were generally avaialable, a 65mm Mulefut rear and 80mm Mulefut front could be a good setup as well.

  71. #671
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    Yeah, 29+ is a bit tall, but for the purposes it serves like long day rides and bikepacking, it's a good wheel size. I ran them on my Beargrease, Mutz (mixxer), and Tandem.

    I know folks want to maximize tire "spread" with a wider rim, but tire profile determines ride chanracteristics, so running too wide or too narrow for your application can be a problem.

    I had the Barbe 4.5 on Jackalopes, it's a great rim in just the right size for my needs, which were packed/firm snow and mixed conditions. A wider rim might be better for soft snow, but that tire/rim combo was the widest that'll fit in the Wozo.

    About the widest rim I'd go with a 3" tire is 50mm. I ran 3" tires on 65mm Large Marge and the sidewall was nearly vertical. I think a 50-60mm rim is the best range for a 3.8. On rim width, I'd go too narrow over to wide as a overly round tire is much better than rim shots and/or the tire not staying seated.

    Mike Curiak is the expert, he may chime in...

    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.

    Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
    27.5x80mm for snow/ice
    27.5x50mm for dirt/rocks

    I'm loving the Wozo and am doing one of each as well as a 29+ wheelset. It's a bit much but they each have a different purpose.

    If you are only doing one B-fat wheelset and want to ride year round I'd probably go 80mm and switch tires (again, I want studs in Winter), though if your snow needs are light then 65mm could work (if you want carbon or can find some Mulefuts). If they were generally avaialable, a 65mm Mulefut rear and 80mm Mulefut front could be a good setup as well.

  72. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Ben was running Barbes on 80mm Jackalopes. I went the same way but want studded tires in New England; right now that means Gnarwhals or Cake Eaters.

    Common recommendations for B-fat wheelsets are:
    27.5x80mm for snow/ice
    27.5x50mm for dirt/rocks

    I'm loving the Wozo and am doing one of each as well as a 29+ wheelset. It's a bit much but they each have a different purpose.

    If you are only doing one B-fat wheelset and want to ride year round I'd probably go 80mm and switch tires (again, I want studs in Winter), though if your snow needs are light then 65mm could work (if you want carbon or can find some Mulefuts). If they were generally avaialable, a 65mm Mulefut rear and 80mm Mulefut front could be a good setup as well.
    3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you! For someone who will only have one wheelset, maybe the best compromise for 4-season use would be the Light Bicycle 27.5" carbon rim (75mm external 70mm internal), as that splits the baby between 65mm and 80mm rims. However, it's probably not wise to put 3.8's that run narrow (such as the Maxxis FBF/FBR) on that wide of a carbon rim, I've read those measure more like a true 3.5", but I'm not sure if those measurements were taken on 65mm or 80mm rims. I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct? I've been browsing so many threads lately I can't keep all the number straight...

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you!
    Yeah, though I expect to swap them seasonally - a winter set, a spring/fall set, and a summer set (29+). We'll see how it goes.

    I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct?
    Close enough, 4.25-4.3ish on an 80mm rim; definitely not a full 4.5".

  74. #674
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    70mm is waay too wide for a 3", probably okay for a 3.8" though honestly it's wider than I'd run.

    I had Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm and they were a good fit, ran great through soft snow at low pressures. I know the trend is to run a really wide rim, but that's mostly for maximizing floation and as a substitute for not having a fatter tire, but wider rims aren't necessarilly better.

    I think Mike Curiak has run Hodags on Jackalopes, but in my mind that is more an effort to maximize floation with a relatively narrow tire. For three season use, I'd want to maximize the tire's function on dirt; having an overly wide rim would diminish handling and lead to more rim shots.

    If I were running one set of wheels, Barbe 4.5 for winter and Hodag 3.8 for summer, I'd be looking at a 60-65mm rim, 70mm is pushing it.

    Really, the ideal is two wheelsets with different tires, one for winter season and one for all the other seasons. You could also go inexpesensive on the winter wheels or even used, then go high end on the three season daily drivers since they will get more use. Otherwise, get a second bike

    I have two bikes and three wheelsets; sometimes four wheelsets. I started swapping wheels when I got a Mutz, ultimatley teamed it up with a fat Tandem, woudl take trips and swap wheels based on conditions and what I wanted to ride.

    I've continued to swap wheels, sometimes I'll swap day to day, I have even swapped between rides on the same day, though mostly I keep the Fatillac set up with 27+ and the Wozo switchhits. I'm going to Moab next month, two bikes and three wheelsets; they all get used.

    I am hoping that Devin will agree to build a custom swingarm for the Fatillac that will fit a 29+, then I'll have the ultimate quiver of two bikes and three wheelsets that fit both bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    3 wheelsets is a bit much, but hats off to you! For someone who will only have one wheelset, maybe the best compromise for 4-season use would be the Light Bicycle 27.5" carbon rim (75mm external 70mm internal), as that splits the baby between 65mm and 80mm rims. However, it's probably not wise to put 3.8's that run narrow (such as the Maxxis FBF/FBR) on that wide of a carbon rim, I've read those measure more like a true 3.5", but I'm not sure if those measurements were taken on 65mm or 80mm rims. I think I recall reading in one of these threads that Barbegazi's and Gnarwhals run closer to 4.2" than their stated 4.5" width, is that correct? I've been browsing so many threads lately I can't keep all the number straight...

  75. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    70mm is waay too wide for a 3", probably okay for a 3.8" though honestly it's wider than I'd run.

    I had Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm and they were a good fit, ran great through soft snow at low pressures. I know the trend is to run a really wide rim, but that's mostly for maximizing floation and as a substitute for not having a fatter tire, but wider rims aren't necessarilly better.

    I think Mike Curiak has run Hodags on Jackalopes, but in my mind that is more an effort to maximize floation with a relatively narrow tire. For three season use, I'd want to maximize the tire's function on dirt; having an overly wide rim would diminish handling and lead to more rim shots.

    If I were running one set of wheels, Barbe 4.5 for winter and Hodag 3.8 for summer, I'd be looking at a 60-65mm rim, 70mm is pushing it.
    Makes perfect sense, sounds like 60-65 is the sweet spot, because it's a good match for 3.8's to 4.5's, which is the range of tire sizes I anticipate using. As long as the narrower rim isn't introducing squirmy lightbulb tire profiles (which wouldn't be the case here), the narrower rim has the benefits of less rotational weight and better rim protection.

  76. #676
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    Just wanted to chime in about my 29+ experience. I'm running 29+ on my STD Mastodon (set up at 140) and I have plenty of room! What a nice change up from the fat. Options are great and as already discussed, the 29+ along with the fat.... Amazing! BFat is looking like the logical "next step".

    Thank you Mike Curiak!

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Super simple:

    The EXT has 20mm longer stanchions than the STD, but this extra length is not usable, all it does is add an inch of tire clearance.

    The STD clears 29+ and 5Ē tires, but itís cutting it close in some combinations. You can take the risk (as I do) or you can add a 10mm spacer to limit compression. In this configuration you have a maximum of 140mm of travel.

    The only reason to get an EXT is if you want more A to C, you want more clearance AND you want 150mm travel, or you like the way it looks
    Would a STD be OK with 27.5 x 4.5" Barbegazi's on a 65mm rim, or is that cutting it too close?

  78. #678
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    Fine for me, full compression with the fork aired down and I had 5mm clearance.

    In an ideal storm, with a mud or snow bound tire at full compression, you would hit.

    How much clearance is enough kinda depends on you. I had 5-10mm clearance at the chaninstays with the Barbe 4.5, so it wore the paint down a little.

    All that said, I did some very serious downhill on the Barbes with big rocks, big hits, and I never hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    Would a STD be OK with 27.5 x 4.5" Barbegazi's on a 65mm rim, or is that cutting it too close?

  79. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikemusher View Post
    Just wanted to chime in about my 29+ experience. I'm running 29+ on my STD Mastodon (set up at 140) and I have plenty of room! What a nice change up from the fat. Options are great and as already discussed, the 29+ along with the fat.... Amazing! BFat is looking like the logical "next step".

    Thank you Mike Curiak!

    Hey -- my pleasure and stuff. More people on 29+ and B Fat is the goal, as 26" just doesn't make that much sense for most of us anymore...

  80. #680
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    I am building up a new XL Wozo - I am 6'5". Please help with a couple items:

    What are stock Stem and Crank Length on the full builds?

    I am considering a 50mm Stem and 175mm cranks.

    I will be running 27.5x3.8 on 50mm rims and a Manitou Magnum Fork at 120 mm (a2c 527).

    My local terrain in colorado is a mix, but not necessarly really loose rock, more solid rock to hump over. I also do not peddle much on the down, more of a cruiser.

    Hoping 175 is ok on cranks. Hate to go lower for a number of reasons, primarly comfort and seat height...

    Thanks for any insight.

  81. #681
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    50mm and 175 on M and L's.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  82. #682
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    Manitou Magnum? Ya sure itíll clear BFat?

    175 cranks? Iíd go shorter but only cuz I hate pedal strikes, 170 is better, 165 is ideal.

    Stem length is kinda personal, Iíve run 35, 45, 60, sticking with 45 now. If itís too short youíll feel crowded and youíre get more front end lift. Trim out the seat first, then pick your stem length.

    My son is 6í5Ē, I put him on a large frame, 29+, 45mm stem, seat centered, nice fit for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by telejefe View Post
    I am building up a new XL Wozo - I am 6'5". Please help with a couple items:

    What are stock Stem and Crank Length on the full builds?

    I am considering a 50mm Stem and 175mm cranks.

    I will be running 27.5x3.8 on 50mm rims and a Manitou Magnum Fork at 120 mm (a2c 527).

    My local terrain in colorado is a mix, but not necessarly really loose rock, more solid rock to hump over. I also do not peddle much on the down, more of a cruiser.

    Hoping 175 is ok on cranks. Hate to go lower for a number of reasons, primarly comfort and seat height...

    Thanks for any insight.

  83. #683
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    I'd be curious to see if the Magnum fits that tire but I am really happy with the mastodon right now. It looks like way overkill with a smaller 29 x 2.8 plus tire but it'll take any tire you want to put in it.

    I've only got about 100 miles on my Wozo with 170mm cranks and I'm really liking them. No real trail use yet but they do feel good on the bike and my knees seem to like them.

  84. #684
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    Oh, and there is this post showing a fairly large tire just barely fitting but no real follow up.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspen...a-1056592.html

  85. #685
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    Pretty sure this has been discussed more than a few times. Fox fork has the most liberal fit fir B Fat, according to Mikesee, it was usable, but a tight fit for mud.

    Granted the Manitou is a very wide fork and it weighs a bit more, but itís the fork of choice on a fat bike. Get the Fox and you canít go fatter than BFat, probably wonít fit 29+; mud issues alone would steer me away.

    On a BFat specific bike like the Fatillac, I have considered this fork option, but I like swapping wheels between bikes.

    Going with a 50mm rim or less could help, maybe even step down to a 40mm, but then you are compromising rideability

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    Oh, and there is this post showing a fairly large tire just barely fitting but no real follow up.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspen...a-1056592.html

  86. #686
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    Well. Working on a budget build $1500 goal. Anyway. Picked up a decent set of Hugo boost with new hodags for $240 and have a manitou magnum enroute for $160. So worth a try and could use the mag on another bike if it does not work out, and sell the Hugoís and keep hodags... anyway, rsd sergeant thread shows success with mag and b fat. So a little less weight, little lower a2c, and cheaper. Or it wonít work out...

    .. at 36Ē I seem I prefer my seat as low as possible and will like run 175; pedal strikes are really only an issue on the up which can be timed alright. I have be n on an xl Wozo and it fit awsome, just wanted to confirm lengths to match...but still considering 170...

  87. #687
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    I'm about the same inseam as you on an XL Wozo with 170's. I could run 175's and not complain I'm sure but the 170's are pretty comfy.

    But, I blew 1/3's of your budget on a long dropper post too.

  88. #688
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    Yeah, but that extra inch is so worth it! I tried a 175 on a medium and it wasnít even close.

    Long cranks are really not as important as people think, we have such a wide gearing range that the need to stand and power through is no longer necessary, for if anything thereís more cons with longer cranks, but for some reason the 170/175 lengths have persisted.

    We shorten stems, narrow bars, even adjust geo for frame size, but good luck finding shorter cranks than 170! Imagine being a small person, riding a small frame, and the crank choice is 170mm. Does that even make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    I'm about the same inseam as you on an XL Wozo with 170's. I could run 175's and not complain I'm sure but the 170's are pretty comfy.

    But, I blew 1/3's of your budget on a long dropper post too.

  89. #689
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    At 6í5Ē I have been on too small gear since first khs (1988), finally on a bike with a top close to 700 and reach over 500. Itís a game changer! Sure the bikes are not as ď flickableĒ but itís way better to be on a bike that fits! So, I might try the 170 crank. Have 180 on one and 175 on another and notice no difference between then. Benefit is 5 mm on seat vs bar height as tall stack lowers seat is important to me....

    Admittedly, budget does not include dropper....that I am sure will last a ride or two....

    I appreciate your feedback and canít wait to try the largest production fatty out there!

  90. #690
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    Hi guys! I am new to fatbiking and have a Wozo ordered. I am considering getting a -2į angleset right away since all the bikes I have had during the last few years had a HA around 65-67į. These bikes were both FS or hardtail used mainly for trail but also bikeparks and enduro races. I think that I will keep the wozo mostly on trails. I also intend to get an extra wheelset but I have not decided yet if it will be 650b or 29er in plus guise or even 2.6 29er, I want first to check the potential of fat tyres and then decide on the extra wheelsize to adapt bb-height and so on...

    I went through the thread and did not find anyone using a -2į angleset, I have seen -1į tho. Do you see any disadvantage with having a HA around 66 to 66.5į on a hardtail fatbike?

  91. #691
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    Personally when I ran mine with the fork at 140 with a -1 and I was surprised that it felt just to slow in the tight twisty stuff. The big tires still take a bit to turn and it was just too much. Now at 120mm with a -1 and really like it. I'm guessing with a normal plus wheelset it would be great tho. Just my experience.

    Might get by with a -2 with a 100mm fork, not sure what it would do to the bb height.
    Last edited by bdundee; 03-11-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  92. #692
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    If you run a long travel fork, 140mm, you get 66 deg.

    I also like slack, but 66deg feels right.

    You could run slacker, but Iíd try it stock first.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyMTB.fr View Post
    Hi guys! I am new to fatbiking and have a Wozo ordered. I am considering getting a -2į angleset right away since all the bikes I have had during the last few years had a HA around 65-67į. These bikes were both FS or hardtail used mainly for trail but also bikeparks and enduro races. I think that I will keep the wozo mostly on trails. I also intend to get an extra wheelset but I have not decided yet if it will be 650b or 29er in plus guise or even 2.6 29er, I want first to check the potential of fat tyres and then decide on the extra wheelsize to adapt bb-height and so on...

    I went through the thread and did not find anyone using a -2į angleset, I have seen -1į tho. Do you see any disadvantage with having a HA around 66 to 66.5į on a hardtail fatbike?

  93. #693
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    Ready for spring, 29+ Chupas on Duroc 40/DT Swiss. Only had an 1/4Ē clearance, so pulled the wheel back another 1/4Ē. Gotta love the versatility of the Wozo


    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-67cbbff6-2ea2-4bb6-a3e0-f272156ee4a6.jpg

  94. #694
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    Thank you for the feedback!

    Ben: I calculated that the HA would be 67 with a 140mm fork (mastodon std with 551 a2c) it also rises the bb 10mm. With a mastodon at 120mm and a -2 angleset the bb doesn't move and the HA goes to 66.

    I will try stock first and see how it goes.

  95. #695
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    Cool. I saw your previous post. Sounds like we ware similar dimensions, so maybe the 170 crank is it....I will also be using 40mm riser bars, but I think yours might be even taller? The fork I bought will have zero extra stack. so will need to make up with the bars.

  96. #696
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    The Angleset adds 10mm stack height, so it's not a simple fix.

    Too slack and your front tire will push in the snow, so not exactly the same as on dirt.

    If you ride aggressively, there's no reason to limit the Mastodon to 120mm on a Wozo. Crack that sucker open and bump to 140mm, it's the perfect amount of travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyMTB.fr View Post
    Thank you for the feedback!

    Ben: I calculated that the HA would be 67 with a 140mm fork (mastodon std with 551 a2c) it also rises the bb 10mm. With a mastodon at 120mm and a -2 angleset the bb doesn't move and the HA goes to 66.

    I will try stock first and see how it goes.

  97. #697
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    What angleset are you running? I have good experience with Works Components and their zs56 lower cup has a stack height of 3,5mm which is very similar to most traditional head set.
    2.0 Degree EC44-ZS56 Angle Headset - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube

  98. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Pretty sure this has been discussed more than a few times. Fox fork has the most liberal fit fir B Fat, according to Mikesee, it was usable, but a tight fit for mud

    FYI Mike tested the fit on 29+ Magnum. BFat (3.8s on 50mm rim) fits the 27.5+ Magnum fairly well. I have between 1/4-3/8Ē all the way around the tire.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  99. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyMTB.fr View Post
    What angleset are you running? I have good experience with Works Components and their zs56 lower cup has a stack height of 3,5mm which is very similar to most traditional head set.
    2.0 Degree EC44-ZS56 Angle Headset - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube
    I've been running a Cane Creek Angleset for about a year now, first with a Bluto 120mm and now with a Mastodon 120-140mm. My Cane Creek has the external lower bearing cup which adds 10mm (as Nurse Ben pointed out). With the Bluto at 120 I ran it at -1 or -1.5 degrees and it was good. With the Mastodon at 140, I have set it back to 0 degrees, but left it in to take advantage of the extra 10mm of effective A-C height to lift the BB a few more mm and to get roughly an extra .5 degrees of slack that results from the 10mm of sag proof height. Plus the headset has performed excellent and no "creacks" to date, so it is in if I do want to play with angles again for some reason.

    I'd say your HA calculations are about spot on as I think mine is about at the 66.5 range with the Angleset at 0 degrees, 10mm bearing cup, and Mastodon at 140mm. This does feel a bit awkward in the snow with my stock 26x4.0/4.8, so I typically drop the Mastodon down to 120mm for that season. For the other 3-seasons with 27.5 fat(3.8) or plus(3.0) tires on and the Mast at full 140mm it feels like perfection. I couldn't be happier. My only want now is a set of 29 x 2.6 wheels/tires for all out fast shredding in full summer mode.

    In Conclusion, had the Mastodon existed when I first started messing with the angles on the bike, I would be just fine with that at 140mm and the stock headset for 3-seasons, and dropping it to 120mm for increased winter stability. I hope this helps as it was a long, but fun endeavor incrementally tweaking with the front end of the Wozo to find what is atleast my sweet spot for this bike.
    Last edited by rvercoe; 03-13-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  100. #700
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    Instead of 2.6 "skinnies", how about some 3" Chupas? Fast and light, not mud tires, but definitely a fun fast tire.

    For really ripping on 29+, the Minion 3" is killer.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    My only want now is a set of 29 x 2.6 wheels/tires for all out fast shredding in full summer mode.

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