Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8! - Page 2- Mtbr.com
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  1. #201
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    This has to be the warmest & driest winter since I have lived on the Front Range, so I have definitely been able to put some dirt miles on the Wozo. Different story here at my parents place in Gunnison/Crested Butte. They have had a big yr. This is today's ride hitting some of the groomers off Brush Creek Rd---> Canal & Bonus for those of you familiar with CB trails.

    As far as sizing, I'm right at 6' but all legs with 34.5" inseam. I don't necessarily need the crazy reach the Large Wozo has but I need the LG seattube length. I'm still running the stock 75mm stem but plan to go down to a 50mm. Definite adjustment for me coming from my OG Ripley and HD3, since Ibis tends to have shorter reach bikes compared to most.

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_1215.jpg

  2. #202
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    So I finally got to ride one on Sunday (thanks staz) and feel the medium should work for me at 5'11". I am though going to wait til the 2018's come out. I emailed Kona and the said around Aug/Sept. I also asked if a carbon model would be in there plans and although he did not say yes he also did not say no either and for me to keep and eye on the website for whats new to come out from Kona....Hmmmmm
    Last edited by sml-2727; 03-14-2017 at 12:12 PM.

  3. #203
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    Wozo in summer "skinny" mode

    I just spent 3 ripping days at Glendo WY trail system with my new 27.5x3.0 wheelse. The Wozo is definitely that elusive "quiver-killer" unicorn of bikes for me. It rode excellently in 27+ all-mtn trail mode. From flowy, twisty to rockgnar tech sections and full throttle off-camber downhills. I am running Hope Fatsno hubs with WTB Scraper 45mm internal width rims and Schwalbe 3.0 tires (Rocket Ron and Nobby Nik). The bottom bracket is at about 306mm height which is a little low for some rocky tech moves, but then it is nice for railing turns (I should note that i have the fork bumped up to 120mm travel). I also lost about 4-5 pounds of the bike compared to the stock wheelset/tire combo.
    Now I have a great snow bike for the winter and the same bike with different wheels as a great all-mtn hardtail for the summer. I couldn't be more impressed with the Wozo overall.
    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_1695.jpgKona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_1704.jpg

  4. #204
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    saw one in person on the weekend, nice ride.

    For anyone looking, Kamikaze Bikes in Collingwood, ON has a large complete for sale ($2600 CAD).

    Not different enough from my Farley 7 (with Bluto and 2 wheelsets) though to consider selling mine to get it. And my 29+ wheels wouldn't swap over due to the rear hub spacing.
    Last edited by Swerny; 03-28-2017 at 06:50 AM.
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  5. #205
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    Tire modification

    [QUOTE=rvercoe;13093104]I just spent 3 ripping days at Glendo WY trail system with my new 27.5x3.0 wheelse. The Wozo is definitely that elusive "quiver-killer" unicorn of bikes for me. It rode excellently in 27+ all-mtn trail mode. From flowy, twisty to rockgnar tech sections and full throttle off-camber downhills. I am running Hope Fatsno hubs with WTB Scraper 45mm internal width rims and Schwalbe 3.0 tires (Rocket Ron and Nobby Nik). The bottom bracket is at about 306mm height which is a little low for some rocky tech moves, but then it is nice for railing turns (I should note that i have the fork bumped up to 120mm travel). I also lost about 4-5 pounds of the bike compared to the stock wheelset/tire combo.

    UPDATE:
    I swapped the NN 3.0 to the rear and put a Minion FBF 3.8 on the front. This has really improved the Wozo for technical, rocky terrain. The NN greatly improved traction in the rear compared to the RR. The FBF obviously increased traction due to its size but, more importantly, it slackened the head angle by about another half degree and raised the bottom bracket by another 5mm (putting it at 311mm height now). At Gowdy State Park I hit the steepest, most technical rock sections I have ever ridden and the bike ate all up without an issue. Truly outstanding. I think I will keep this set-up for technical riding until I can get a fatbike fork with 140mm of travel like the new Manitou Mastidon.

    I'm interested to hear from other owners that are using the Wozo as a slimmed down dry season whip.

  6. #206
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    can anyone comment on the q factor one can achieve on this bike? The smaller the better

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbum1 View Post
    can anyone comment on the q factor one can achieve on this bike? The smaller the better
    I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF sie to see the q factors.

    Not sure if any crank set will have a lower q, the Next SL is a pretty flat crank arm.

    Something I've considered is cutting the BB down to fit an 83mm spindle. This mod would work with the Next SL cranks, RF has an 83mm spindle. Downside is 5" tire clearance would require a chainring swap; only an issue in the deepest of winter.

  8. #208
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    Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo?

    I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo?

    I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.
    Wait for the Manitou.

    The Wozo is designed for a 100mm fork, so jumping 40mm is huge, you may not like the results.

    I think 120mm is reasonable for this bike.

    Edit: I've had three Wren and three Bluto forks, have one Bluto remaining, waiting on the Manitou Mastodon.
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 03-27-2017 at 05:52 PM.

  10. #210
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    Here is a good review vs the Bluto
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI72pLUqsz0
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  11. #211
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    I picked up my Wozo last week to replace a Pugsley. I haven't gotten a ride on it yet as the trails are too wet for riding. I've just been playing around with it in the road. It was a big debate between a medium and a large. Both seemed to fit well. In the end I went with the medium as it felt more nimble. Can't wait to get on the trails. I've got a 2014 Precept DL that has been my summer bike. I'm curious to see if the Wozo will become my go to bike. Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_1004.jpg

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Is anybody running a Wren Inverted Fork on their Wozo?

    I am interested in its performance for technical, rocky, dirt riding. Not so much for snow, as a rigid fork is fine for that. I would like to upgrade to a 140mm travel fork to run with my 27+ wheelset that will give me hardhitting performance for summer riding.
    The wren is great. I'm running 110 on mine with a 29 plus front and 27 plus rear. Feels great. The 140 might help compensate for the lowered bb due to the 27 plus wheels.

    Ben might only have a bluto now but he seems to forget he was one of wrens biggest supporters while he had his 3(!) Wrens. Not sure why it sucks so much now.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    The wren is great. I'm running 110 on mine with a 29 plus front and 27 plus rear. Feels great. The 140 might help compensate for the lowered bb due to the 27 plus wheels.

    Ben might only have a bluto now but he seems to forget he was one of wrens biggest supporters while he had his 3(!) Wrens. Not sure why it sucks so much now.
    The Wren was never more than it is, the torsional flex, the cockeyed issues, poopy damper, those are unchanged.

    The reason I got a Bluto for the Wozo was price (got it at cost) and because I knew the Mastodon was coming.

  14. #214
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    Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo?


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    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo?


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    Sunringle Duroc 40/50, burly rims, excellent tubeless. Width will depend if you want a little extra tire or a little extra rim.

    Personally, the size difference from 3.0 to 3.8 is a bit much for me, I'd run 3.0 front and rear for summer, then add an angleset and/or 120mm fork, that'll correct the low bb and give you the desired hta.

    To get the tire differential with greater traction up front, pick a low tread rear. In 27.5 x 3.8 tires there are few choices, but in 3.0" there are tons of choices. 3.0" will also be lighter and more agile.

    If I wanted a more "mixxer" kind of ride, I'd run 29+ front/27+ rear, same tire width.

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    Yeah I do think I will go 27.5 x 3.0 front and back and bump the Bluto to 120. Thanks for the advice.


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  17. #217
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    Hi RideMN,
    See below.
    Last edited by rvercoe; 03-30-2017 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Hey Rvercoe. Looking to build a new wheel set for my WoZo. What rims did you use for your 3.8 / 3.0 combo?


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    Hi RideMN,
    I recommend the WTB Scraper 45 (45mm internal diameter) over the Duroc. Mostly due to the sleeved join on the rim rather than a spot weld join on the Durocs. Increased rim integrity at the join. But that is really mostly a concern if you are going to do big-hit, technical, or rocky riding. Smooth, flow, XC-style riding won't make a difference between either of those rims as they are about the same weight and price-point.

    What I do know is that the Scrapers set-up tubeless ridiculously easy and solid. I have done all of mine and my wife's first try with an old floor pump. Something I always had a tougher time doing on any other brand or size of rim before and certainly not with a 100% success-rate without going to an air compressor.

    As far as tire choice goes, here's the deal. I ride rocky technical terrain both for preference and for the fact there is an abundance of it nearby. So in order to achieve an "All-mtn hardtail" set-up that achieves acceptable levels of performance I have settled on the following: Bluto fork w/ 120mm travel, Minion FBF 3.8 front, Nobby Nik 3.0 rear. I tried a Rocket Ron (low tread type of tire) on the rear and found it noticeably lacking in the traction department for decomposed granite over solid rock and dirt, technical climbs, and rock hits. I switched to the meatier and slightly tougher NN and things are perfect in the rear-end for confident traction, handling and durability. Now for the Front, I started with the NN on the front when the RR was on the rear. Naturally, the NN was awesome up there. I'll admit the NN may be my favorite all around tire of all time. But, the 3.0/3.0 pairing left my bottom bracket and head angle too low and steep, respectively. At least for my needs (ie riding style and trails). I was getting more pedal strikes than desired in technical sections, even after accounting for more conscious pedal management, and the HA was a little too XC for what I needed. An angle set headset would have remedied the HA, but left the BB height arguably even a touch lower. So my most efficient and economical solution was to put the FBF 3.8 up front. This has increased BB height to a nice 311mm and set the HA at about 68 degrees.

    Remember that the Wozo is originally designed around a 4.0 rear / 4.8 front 26 inch wheel combo to achieve the desired BB height and HA. This is replicated with the 27x3 / 27x3.8 combo, plus I get an extra bit from the 120 fork to slack the HA for more aggressive descending. Now, as Ben notes, I could also achieve this same result by using a 29x3.0 front wheel/tire, but that would necessitate a complete new front wheel and tire combo. Obviously, the other difference in using the 3.8 FBF over a 29x3 is the increased traction from a larger contact patch due to the width and the increased volume which adds additional undampened suspension. Neither of which increase rolling resistance much as it is on the front wheel, but does increase descending confidence when you weight the front end and dig that big tire in for all its worth.

    In summary, definitely get a 45mm internal diameter rim (Scraper or Duroc) to have the greatest tire size applicability. Start with 3.0 tires and get the fork upto 120mm. If you prefer and ride more XC, flow, non-technical terrain then this set-up should be the bees knees for you. It is super fun and the low BB and plus tires' contact patch will have you cornering like a Jedi on a speeder bike. If you ride more technical terrain, you may find that a higher front end (either through a larger tire or longer travel fork) will be the antidote to get your BB and HA dialed. Ultimately, in my case, I would rather save my pennies for a 140mm fork up front and then put 27x3.0 NN or equivalent on my custom 27.5 wheelset that I just laid-out for.

    Hope this helps, and thanks to the folks that provided feedback on 140mm fork recommendations and reviews.

    Cheers, Rico

  19. #219
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    Thats great info. Thanks for the help guys!!

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    Hi Ben et al,

    What face face spindle length do I need for a race face next sl G4 crank and which bottom bracket for the wozo?

  21. #221
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    RF Spindle is only offered in one length, different q depending on crank.

    Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up. It might be a different story if plus/fat tires ran in small incrementd, 4.0/4.25 for example.

    To think of it another way, would you run a 27.5 x 2.25 in the rear and a 27.5 x 3 in the front? Nah, no one does that, it'd be silly.

    As to the rims, I'm gonna also disagree on the Scrapers. I've built two sets, trashed one set, still got one set, they build poorly, prone to flat spotting, get dinged easilly, and dent easilly. Durocs are bomber, typical Sunringle quality, WTB just doesnt compare. Second rim choice would be Velocity Dually, got a set of those on my plus bike, take a licking and still holding strong; though they tend to scratch easy.

    Just a quick note on adding an angleset to the Wozo: because it would be an external lower cup, the HT is raised 10mm, so you get 0.5 deg slacker just by adding the angleset. That 10mm is nearly the same difference as you'll find between a 27.5 x 3.8 and a 27.5 x 4.8, now combine the angleset with a 120mm fork and you're HT end is more than an inch higher than stock.

    Get some decent hubs, DT Swiss, Onyx, King.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up.
    Hey Ben, that's pretty cool. When did you start working in Kona's development team?

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Gotta disagrer on the 4.0/4.8 tire mixing. Granted, it's not uncommon to ride different tire widths, 2.25 rear and 2.4 front, but the difference between a 4.8 and a 4.0 is too great to be rational. It was a screw up. It might be a different story if plus/fat tires ran in small incrementd, 4.0/4.25 for example.
    Coming from some one who has recommended people try 27.5+ rear and 29+ front....?

    It's not a screw up, it actually works rather nicely. Since when did you become the expert on being rational?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Coming from some one who has recommended people try 27.5+ rear and 29+ front....?

    It's not a screw up, it actually works rather nicely. Since when did you become the expert on being rational?
    That was only while he was raving about how wonderful the Wren was.
    While raving about a bike with long chain stays
    But that was then....and this is now.....
    #alternatefacts

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    ...As to the rims, I'm gonna also disagree on the Scrapers. I've built two sets, trashed one set, still got one set, they build poorly, prone to flat spotting, get dinged easilly, and dent easilly....
    With regards to the Scrapers durability I don't have any personal experience, however, Chad at Red Barn in Montana who builds all my wheels indicated to me that he prefers the Scrapers because of their durability when I approached him for a set for my Wozo--> "I like the WTB's a little more for durability sake. Seem to be a little more stout." Chad does know just a thing or two about building wheels. If you do a search he's generally one of the long time, recommended wheelbuilders here on mtbr. He's been around a long time and I definitely value his opinion. Every one of the wheelsets he has built for me has been rock solid.

  26. #226
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    From my personal time on the Scrapers, they have been bomber. Granted, I run the right pressure so I am not touching the rim constantly on the trail.

    The i40 vs the i45 Scraper are a bug difference. The i40 can't hold a candle to the durability of the i45.

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  27. #227
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    I could say many things, but why bother, fat bike season is coming to an end, this forum will go into hibernation shortly.

    See ya next season

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I could say many things, but why bother, fat bike season is coming to an end, this forum will go into hibernation shortly.

    See ya next season
    With a bike like the Wozo, I expect there to be a pretty outstanding summer (plus bike) season ahead. At least that is what I am counting on and the interest so far seems that others are going to give it a go as well. Thanks for contributing NB. As long as we are all having a Rad time riding and sharing our experiences, there shouldn't be any problem if we disagree on the details. Cheers.

  29. #229
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    My fat bike season just started...???

    ... and I'm running a 4.8 front and 4.0 rear.

    Maybe next year I'll get this fat biking thing figured out..

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    With a bike like the Wozo, I expect there to be a pretty outstanding summer (plus bike) season ahead. At least that is what I am counting on and the interest so far seems that others are going to give it a go as well. Thanks for contributing NB. As long as we are all having a Rad time riding and sharing our experiences, there shouldn't be any problem if we disagree on the details. Cheers.
    Agreed! Great thread w/ lots of good feedback/info. My summer wheels are being built up right now by Chad at Red Barn. Ended up going with i35s instead of i45s on my 29 wheels, so I can go + and also scale it back to 2.3s/2.4s with no issues. Chupacabras on order. Bumping the Bluto to 120mm. Should be a sh**ton of fun this summer!

  31. #231
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    Let us know how you like that combo MSH!!


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    Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
    I am trying to keep the geometry close to stock. I don't think I want to put 29+ on rear to raise the stand over. However I would not mind to get the BB up a hair from stock set up.
    Would 27.5+ rear and 29+ front accomplish this?


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    Yes. That's how I'm running mine.

    Steering is a bit floppy but manageable, and I quite like how the bike rides. BB still feels low to me, but I've really worked on technique and minimized pedal strikes using half strokes and timing cadence.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-20170429_145611.jpg  


  34. #234
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    [QUOTE=RideMN;13160050]Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.

    A 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as 29x3.0. That's what I run on the front with a 27.5x3.0 on the rear.

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    [QUOTE=rvercoe;13160227]
    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.

    A 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as 29x3.0. That's what I run on the front with a 27.5x3.0 on the rear.
    That is not correct.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post

    That is not correct.
    Walt (Waltworks) seems to state otherwise here--->The Fat+Plus+Skinny do-it-all FAQ

    "-Want even bigger wheels/more volume? No problem, 26×4.8-5″ tires are about 760-770mm diameter. That’s about the same as a 27.5×3.8″ (Bontrager Hodag) or a 29×3″ plus tire (ie Knard, Chupacabra, etc). So again, 3 wheel sizes/tire sizes will fit the frame without causing problems with handling..."

  37. #237
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    Thanks for the pic Shinkers! Looks sweet.
    Also, thanks for answering all my wheel questions guys. I need as much info as possible because I really want to get this right the first time. I will not be able to float another wheel build if this one does not work for me!

  38. #238
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    [QUOTE=rvercoe;13160227]
    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.

    A 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as 29x3.0. That's what I run on the front with a 27.5x3.0 on the rear.
    So far this combo is what I am leaning towards. 27.5 3.0/ 3.8. Seems like it will really liven the bike up on dirt / single track. I just don't want to build up some wheels and have it feel the same as it does now with stock wheels!
    I think 29+ would be great but like some of you have told me, it will be quite tall. The BB height intrigues me with 29+ but stand over may get tight.

  39. #239
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    That is not correct.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps I should be more specific considering NB's terse reply:

    27.5 x 3.8= 770 mm outer diameter. As measured on a WTB 27.5 Scraper rim
    (45mm internal width) with a Maxxis Minion FBF 3.8 tire at 10psi. I have
    personally been riding this set-up for a month now and took the outer
    diameter measurement again this morning to confirm my measurements.

    29 x 3.0= 768 mm outer diameter. As measured on a 35mm (outer width) rim
    with a Bontrager Chupacabra 3.0 tire (same outer diameter measured for
    Surly Knard 3.0 and Vee Tire Trax Fatty 3.25). Here is the source for these
    measurements: https://fat-bike.com/2014/10/product...ght-bontrager-
    chupacabra-29x3-0/

    So, I will admit that I was not specific enough in my prior statement that 27.5x3.8 is the same outer diameter as a 29x3.0. The 27.5x3.8 is in fact 2mm larger to be exact. I figured even NB would allow +/- 2mm for discussion sake.

    Either way let us know what you decide and enjoy the ride!

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Has anyone tried 27.5 x 3 rear and 29x 3 front.
    I am trying to keep the geometry close to stock. I don't think I want to put 29+ on rear to raise the stand over. However I would not mind to get the BB up a hair from stock set up.
    Would 27.5+ rear and 29+ front accomplish this?

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    First of all, what size wheels and tires are you currently running? If you're running 26x4.8ish tires, then 29+ or 27.5x3.8(really 3.5) will be close to the same diameter and keep your geometry very close to stock. If you are running 26x4.0ish, then yes, 29+ will be taller. I don't like the idea of running 29+ front and 27+ rear, as it will mess with your angles and change the handling.

    How about 29+ front and 27.5x3.8 rear? that might make a fun combo! Or just stick with the same size front and rear. If you think 29x3.0 will be too big, there is also 29x2.6, and there's also 29x2.8 tires coming soon.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post

    27.5 x 3.8= 770 mm outer diameter. As measured on a WTB 27.5 Scraper rim
    (45mm internal width) with a Maxxis Minion FBF 3.8 tire at 10psi. I have
    personally been riding this set-up for a month now and took the outer
    diameter measurement again this morning to confirm my measurements.
    Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF on 45-50mm rims).
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF).
    Hi Nitrous,
    Yes, One thing to consider is that I find getting into plus and fat ranges that the tires do actually have a bit more 'stretch' after being mounted and settled into their own shape for a period of time. Especially after running them tubeless for a few weeks.
    The other is that the rim width can make a significant difference. That's why I always include the internal width rim measurement so as to account for that factor when folks are comparing wheel/tire combos.
    The third variable is of course the considerable range, or shall we say liberty, that the tire manufacturers take in claimed tire size and actual size.

    Overall though, I would corroborate the Walt Works blog provided by MSH that the range is usually within the 760-770mm range.

  43. #243
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    i have FBF 27.5x3.8 on 65mm external nextie rim so about 59mm internal?) and 2x hodags on 52mm external/45mm internal nexties and they are both ~750mm in diamter? perhaps a smidge under - this is akin to 29x2.4 really....

    i have a few chupas, minion fbf and chronicle 29x3" and they are all in the 765mm diameter ish bracket

    my flowbeist 26x4.5 is within a coupel mm of the hodag 27.5.

    the barbigazi 27.5 i have is MASSIVE 770mm diameter.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Interesting numbers you have there, as every other person is getting about 20mm smaller outer diameter with similar combos (with Hodag and Minion FBF on 45-50mm rims).
    That is correct.

  45. #245
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    [QUOTE=dRjOn

    Thanks for the numbers dRjOn. I'll have to re-check my FBF measurements when I get home.

  46. #246
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    27.5 x 3 Spec Purg 720mm, 42mm OD rim
    27.5 x 3.8 Minion 735mm, 50mm OD rim
    26 x 4.8 Minion 740mm, 65mm OD rim
    29 x 3 Minion 765mm, 50mm OD rim

    YMMV

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    27.5 x 3 Spec Purg 720mm, 42mm OD rim
    27.5 x 3.8 Minion 735mm, 50mm OD rim
    26 x 4.8 Minion 740mm, 65mm OD rim
    29 x 3 Minion 765mm, 50mm OD rim

    YMMV
    Wow, it is fascinating to see the range of variation in actual size in these plus and fat tires. I remeasured my 27.5 x 3.8 Minion on a 50mm OD rim and got closer to 760mm (rather than 770), but still much larger than NB's at 735.

  48. #248
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    I think it would be really helpful to know what the tire pressure is when measuring, as that will make a big difference. Are you guys measuring at 30 psi, or at riding pressure, like 5 to 10 PSI? Also, new tires will be smaller than used tires that have stretched. I have a couple of these sizes but have never measured overall diameter, maybe I'll have to get my own measurements.

  49. #249
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    Seems to me the Wozo ETT seems really really really long.

    Small seems like a medium, medium like a large, and so on.

    Is this correct?

    I ride a Medium 9Zero7 which has a 602mm ETT and I wouldn't want a 628mm on the Wozo which would put me on a small at 599.

    But hey I could have that WC XC racer seat height look

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I think it would be really helpful to know what the tire pressure is when measuring, as that will make a big difference. Are you guys measuring at 30 psi, or at riding pressure, like 5 to 10 PSI? Also, new tires will be smaller than used tires that have stretched. I have a couple of these sizes but have never measured overall diameter, maybe I'll have to get my own measurements.
    Not 30psi, typically 12-14 psi on the skinny tire, <10psi on the 4" tires, and 4-6psi on the fat tires.

    @rvercoe: you need to check that measurement on the 3.8 Minion, ain't no way it's that tall. The 27.5 x 3.8 Minion and 26 x 4.8 Minion are very close to the same size, which is why they are a good two wheel combo.

    29 x 3 are the tallest tires by far, which is part of the reason it's so hard to design a bike that can share wheels with this size, and design for a short chainstay.

    For example, I can run 26 x 4.8 or 27.5 x 3.8 with my Wozo drops slammed (shortest), but when I switch to 29+ I don't have enough clearance so move the drops back ~ 10mm.

  51. #251
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    I measured my 27.5 Hodag, mounted on a Nextie 65mm outside width rim at 750mm, at around 8 psi.

    Nurse Ben: the 27.5x4.5 tires are even taller than 29+ I believe. I have a set mounted on Jackalop rims, but can't measure them right now as they are in VT and I'm in NY. I will post up measurements of my 29x3.25 tires, they are huge!

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I measured my 27.5 Hodag, mounted on a Nextie 65mm outside width rim at 750mm, at around 8 psi.

    Nurse Ben: the 27.5x4.5 tires are even taller than 29+ I believe. I have a set mounted on Jackalop rims, but can't measure them right now as they are in VT and I'm in NY. I will post up measurements of my 29x3.25 tires, they are huge!
    Possibly, don't have either to compare.

    Honestly, I find the 29+ to be to much tire/wheel for anything tight, it's just to much wheel to finesse.

    They are great for going fast and straight through gnar.

    I used to ride a 36er muni, it was super fun, fast and flowy xc riding was a hoot, and I could make it handle techy stuff, but there is a point at which bigger is not better.

    I'm in the process of rebuilding my 29" wheels as 27.5, that way I have set of 3.8 and 2.8, as well as 26 x 4.8 for winter.

    The ride with the Mastodon EXT 120mm travel fork is exceptional.

  53. #253
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    Hey NB,
    How is the 2.8 set-up working for ya?
    I am asking because I am going to install an Angleset headset w/ the external lower bearing cup next week in hopes that it gives me that additional 10-14mm lift so that I can perhaps run a 3.0 up front and still have the BB clearance I need. I am really enjoying my current set-up with 3.0 x 3.8 and a 120mm fork as far as BB height and HA goes for clearance and handling on technical terrain. I call that me "funduro" set-up as it is a ripper and bombproof, but it would be nice to go a bit skinnier up front for full X-C applications such as our local summer race series.
    Have you tried an angleset on the Wozo?

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Hey NB,
    How is the 2.8 set-up working for ya?
    I am asking because I am going to install an Angleset headset w/ the external lower bearing cup next week in hopes that it gives me that additional 10-14mm lift so that I can perhaps run a 3.0 up front and still have the BB clearance I need. I am really enjoying my current set-up with 3.0 x 3.8 and a 120mm fork as far as BB height and HA goes for clearance and handling on technical terrain. I call that me "funduro" set-up as it is a ripper and bombproof, but it would be nice to go a bit skinnier up front for full X-C applications such as our local summer race series.
    Have you tried an angleset on the Wozo?
    2.8's are not built yet.

    Figure on 1/2" drop from 3.8 to 3.0, 1/2" rise from a increasing fork travel to 120mm, so a push from stock. 2.8's are shorter yet, so you'll end up lower by 1/4-1/2", not a lot, but enough. If you're running 175mm crsnks, going to 165mm would improve clearance.

    Anglesets work fine, you get the increased height from the external cup, but they're heavy and not as solid as a fixed headset... too bad you can't just buy an external lower cup.

    It'd be a bettet investment to soend the $150 angleset money on a 120mm Ext Mastodon, which will add ~20mm bb height, give you a better ride, you'll have the ability to lower or raise the fork using a shock pump, and you'll have the bb height to run 2.8-3.

    I did all this stuff with my previous fat bikes, multiple wheelsets and tires sizes, angleset, varying fork length, etc. .. 2.8-3 is the ticket for summer riding.i hzve abplus bike, it's my go to when it's dry.
    .

  55. #255
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    Wozo great

    Just upgraded my fork removed the Bluto and put on a Lauf Carbonara. Bike now weighs 30.4 pounds!! Not bad more a aluminum fat bike!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_0208.jpg  


  56. #256
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    That's sweet^^^


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  57. #257
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    I "may" be selling my Wozo frame, sz Large.

    It'll be packaged with an Easton 150mm dropper, RF BB, CC Headset, and a Bluto 120mm RC2.

    Frame, fork, HS, BB, and dropper are in excellent condition.

    I love this frame, but no worries, it's being replaced with a Lenz Fatillac.

    Edit: I won't know until my Fatillac frame turns up. I'll post a formal ad when it's time.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 08-09-2017 at 07:37 AM.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I may be selling my Wozo frame, sz Large.

    It'll be packaged with an Easton 150mm dropper, RF BB, CC Headset, and a Bluto 120mm RC2.

    Frame, fork, HS, BB, and dropper are in excellent condition.

    I love this frame, but no worries, it's being replaced with a Lenz Fatillac.

    It'll be a few weeks yet... so start lining up
    How much?

  59. #259
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    How much ya got?

    I'm mostly putting out a feeler, not in a hurry, still need to receive the Fatillac frame, build it, and see what tire combos will fit, but figure $400-450 frame, $400 fork, $300 dropper, $75 BB/HS... ~ $1150-1200. I may end parting it out, though it'd be less irritating to sell it as listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChargeCookerMaxi View Post
    How much?

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How much ya got?

    I'm mostly putting out a feeler, not in a hurry, still need to receive the Fatillac frame, build it, and see what tire combos will fit, but figure $400-450 frame, $400 fork, $300 dropper, $75 BB/HS... ~ $1150-1200. I may end parting it out, though it'd be less irritating to sell it as listed.
    Sweet!

    Somebody buy my ICT frame so I can get my butt on a Wozo! I need some short chainstays!

  61. #261
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    Is there a medium frame for sale?

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanr View Post
    Is there a medium frame for sale?
    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2103592/

    Good luck getting a frame. I had to go to Canada to get my frames and the frames I got were apparently not frames designed to be sold so much as warranty replacement overstock.

    May check around with a Canadian Kona dealer, see what they have in the system.

    Maybe Kona will seel frame only this year?

    Great

  63. #263
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    2018 Wozo colorway spotted

    Not bad

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-20525356_1648015285218959_8902156441318361353_n.jpg

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    2018 Wozo colorway spotted

    Not bad

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Kinda like it too.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Kinda like it too.
    If Kona did a threaded BB on this version I could overlook it being aluminium and order one. Sigh

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    If Kona did a threaded BB on this version I could overlook it being aluminium and order one. Sigh
    It's not a deal breaker. Just get one of those fancy bolt on bb's. I have an RF PF bb, works fine, nice and quiet.

    Anyone know if the 2018 geo changed?

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Kinda like it too.
    Is that the shop in Truckee?

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    Love that color combo. Anything change other then color and tires??


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  69. #269
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    Just got of the phone with my dealer, frame only is an option for 2018!

    Better snatch one up b4 they sell out

    $699 w/ maxle

    Medium or Large

    The medium numbers line up with my Large Canfield Epo that I am very comfy on, but shop says Large for sure, hmmmm

  70. #270
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    That is great news, I love the Wozo and was really bummed that they didn't make it available as anything but a complete.

    I had a medium and a large frame, I built the medium first and I could have rode it, but the bars were in my knees with a 50mm stem and my feet were a little too touchy with the front wheel. The upside of a Medium frame is standover is waaay better and I could have run a longer dropper (175mm vs the 150mm I have now).

    I've been ridding the large frame as a 29+, 27.5 x 3.8, 27.5 x 2.8, 26 x 4.8. The bb on the Wozo is a bit low even with a Mastodon 120 EXT. I think it rides best as a 27.5 x 3.8, which is how I ride it most of the time.

    My large is running a 35mm stem, seat is about center on the fore/aft adjustment.

    If I was going to be using it more as a jump bike, kinda like a mini BMX, then I'd go with a medium. For winter use and bikepacking I'll stick with a large.

    I'm 6', 32" inseam, sz 13 flippers.

    Edit: Confirmed with Kona Central, frames are available, first come, no changes other than color.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    Just got of the phone with my dealer, frame only is an option for 2018!

    Better snatch one up b4 they sell out

    $699 w/ maxle

    Medium or Large

    The medium numbers line up with my Large Canfield Epo that I am very comfy on, but shop says Large for sure, hmmmm

  71. #271
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    Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?

    Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike

    I don't like the 2018 Wozo in blue.

    Anyone?

  72. #272
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    Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+

    Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?

    Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike

    I don't like the 2018 Wozo in blue.

    Anyone?

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+

    Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.
    Medium, large will neuter you

    The large is long and has a fairly high standover. My large fits fine, but I want to use it for play, so I need better standover and a shorter reach.

    The Wozo is a great frame I'm going to run a longer dropper (175mm if it fits), an angleset -1.0 or -1.5, 130-140mm Manitou STD.

    Do you have one of Mike's Fatillac or did you get one direct?

    Why selling?

    My Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm are a tad too wide to fit the Fatillac, so I'm looking at a JJ 4.4, what's the widest 26" tire you've run?

  74. #274
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    Good to hear, standover is important. Glad to hear a Medium Wozo is similar in fit to a Large Epo - I have (and am currently selling) a Large Epo. Planning to order a Medium Wozo frame this week.

    Have a Fox 34 140 Boost Plus that I might try to drop down to 120. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite with a little clearance. And on deck is a Supermax 130 which also fits a 4.6, has a long offset but that isn't a detriment for snow riding.

    Bought my Fatillac frame direct from Devin. Rear clearance of those frames varies depending on date of manufacture, later typically have better clearance. Mine was one of the first but still has decent room for a 4.0 Van Helga. A 4.4 JJ *might* fit.

    Would prefer not to sell such a capable fatbike as the Fatillac. Excellent for technical snow riding. Great with 27.5+ for summer riding. Folks say it is very good with 27.5x3.8 also. However, I just started a new Switchblade which is awesome for 3-season riding and (possibly) fat front for snow. I believe an aggressive hardtail fatbike like the Wozo is a better complement to my stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Medium, large will neuter you

    The large is long and has a fairly high standover. My large fits fine, but I want to use it for play, so I need better standover and a shorter reach.

    The Wozo is a great frame I'm going to run a longer dropper (175mm if it fits), an angleset -1.0 or -1.5, 130-140mm Manitou STD.

    Do you have one of Mike's Fatillac or did you get one direct?

    Why selling?

    My Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm are a tad too wide to fit the Fatillac, so I'm looking at a JJ 4.4, what's the widest 26" tire you've run?

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Good to hear, standover is important. Glad to hear a Medium Wozo is similar in fit to a Large Epo - I have (and am currently selling) a Large Epo. Planning to order a Medium Wozo frame this week.

    Have a Fox 34 140 Boost Plus that I might try to drop down to 120. Fits a Flowbeist 4.6 on Marge Lite with a little clearance. And on deck is a Supermax 130 which also fits a 4.6, has a long offset but that isn't a detriment for snow riding.

    Bought my Fatillac frame direct from Devin. Rear clearance of those frames varies depending on date of manufacture, later typically have better clearance. Mine was one of the first but still has decent room for a 4.0 Van Helga. A 4.4 JJ *might* fit.

    Would prefer not to sell such a capable fatbike as the Fatillac. Excellent for technical snow riding. Great with 27.5+ for summer riding. Folks say it is very good with 27.5x3.8 also. However, I just started a new Switchblade which is awesome for 3-season riding and (possibly) fat front for snow. I believe an aggressive hardtail fatbike like the Wozo is a better complement to my stable.
    Gotcha, some changes along the way, mine fits a Minion 3.8 just right. I'd like to see an upgraded swingarm, needs a little width at the seat stays to take a 4.8 Minion, would need some length to run anything taller.

    I'm not sure it's worth going down to a JJ 4.4 just so the two bikes can share all three wheels.

    I'm considering a 27.5 x 60mm rim with a 4.5 to replace the 26" wheel, this would be only for the Wozo.

    Do you run a dropper on your Fatillac? Tight fit, insertion is only 160mm, so I got just enough for a 125mm internal post.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Interesting, another Fatillac owner. Selling my Fatillac frame or possibly complete build very soon. Such an incredibly capable bike with 26 fat or 27.5+

    Planning to buy a Wozo frame, trying to decide Medium or Large based on this thread's recommendation. 5'10.5" with regular proportions, leaning towards Medium.
    Yeah, I am 5'10.5. I started with a large frame and the stand over height put the top tube right against the fellas. My lbs let me swap for a medium which was much better and gave me the clearance to go to 120 mm fork with my summer wheels. That's just my experience. Awesome bike though!


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  77. #277
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    I would be quite surprised if the Fatillac chainstays/yoke could be redesigned to fit a 4.8 Minion. Maybe a 4.6 Dunderbeist. The VanHelga 4.0 is an excellent snow tire with far superior traction to the Jumbo Jim. I might consider the JJ for fast groomed snow racing but always want max grip for trail riding.

    Like you said, as a dropper for the Fatillac, 125mm is probably max. Gravity Dropper was my best choice for that seatpost. It's fugly but the mechanical works in all conditions, unlike most hydraulics.

    For the Wozo, in addition to 65mm Marge Lites, I will be running 50mm Scrapers. Should be fine for 27.5x3.8 and maybe Gnarwhal front. I would imagine a 27.5 60mm rim would be good for anything 3.0-4.5" Interested to hear how the Wozo rides with 27.5x3.8 Minions in various conditions.

  78. #278
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    I mostly ride the Wozo with 3.8 Minions, shorter wheels drop the bb too much. It rides fine with plus wheels, but I didn't like 29+ that much.

    I rode the Wozo this morning, big climb on sand and rock, nice dowhnill run through a wash, no complaints, great bike.

    I'll probably add an angleset and reset the fork to an STD 130mm, maybe get a medium frame depending on how it rides.

    I'm running Next SL.170mm Cranks, got Eagle GX 165mm on order for the Fatillac, will probably get shorter Cranks for the Wozo as well.

  79. #279
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    Nurse Ben-
    I don't have a trade, but I'd be interested in the large frame if you decide to sell it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Anyone want to trade their medium green 2017 Wozo frame for my large green 2017 Wozo frame?

    Now that I have the Fatillac, I'm considering downsizing my Wozo so it's more of a play bike

    I don't like the 2018 Wozo in blue.

    Anyone?

  80. #280
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    Ordering a medium frame. Once it arrives I need to finish the Fatillac build, start the Wozo rebuild, see if I can run a longer post, at which point I'll price it out.

    Definitiely selling the large frame, 120mm Bluto fork, CC headset, and maybe an Easton 150mm dropper.

    I've got a bunch of folks who want to buy it, so let's wait until I have all the particulars worked out and I can put a price to the kit. I will not be interested in breaking it down further, there are too many people willing to buy it as a partial complete.

    FYI, frame only is available from Kona direct.

    [QUOTE=goose8;13299215]Nurse Ben

  81. #281
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    The Fatillac sounds really cool Ben!

    I am really loving the Wozo so I would encourage someone to pick up Ben's when it is up for sale! I have been riding all the same jumps and steep trails as my Giant Reign with the wozo and having a blast.

    Untitled by avyoung, on Flickr

  82. #282
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    Sounds good! I live close to the Canadian border so I might just get one directly. The price is right but it looks like it's going to be challenging to find a large.

    Nice build GspotRider! Glad to hear it's capable of riding such a variety of trails.

  83. #283
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    I rode mine last weekend on the TRT, Tahoe Meadows to Marlett. Typically I ride an FS for the tech, jumping, etc.. but I took the Wozo because my kids were on hardtails.

    It was such a hoot, jumping on the Wozo is like riding a big DJ, so agile and fun, smooths out the little hits, takes drops like a big bike, so easy to manual.

    I'm getting a medium so I can reduce the bulk/wheelbase for more agility and so I can run a 175mm dropper.

    I do wish they'd slacked out the HA and added another 10mm to the chainstay yoke width, but no worries, it's a great bike and very adaptable. I'll probably add an Anglset once I get the Mastodon reduced, which will net me about a 67deg HA with 130mm travel and the 10mm external lower cup.

    My Fatillac is getting a -10 deg Angleset plus 150mm travel, so it'll be about 66 deg HA.

    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider View Post
    I am really loving the Wozo so I would encourage someone to pick up Ben's when it is up for sale! I have been riding all the same jumps and steep trails as my Giant Reign with the wozo and having a blast.

  84. #284
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    Does anyone have measurements on the bottom bracket and chain line? The kona website is very lacking in technical information or contact information for them. I'm ordering parts and had planned on running regular width race face turbines thinking it was a BB92 but the kona site lists PF92 (which to my understanding is not an actual standard) and in another post someone said the BB shell width measured 100mm. If this does take a regular width crank set, are boost chain rings working OK with the chain line? If it's some fat/ mid-fat width crank, are people having luck with regular offset chain rings?

    Can someone confirm the headset is a ZS44/ ZS56?

  85. #285
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    Using an RF Turbine, RF PF92 BB (press fit), works fine, from memory a 2mm spacer on drive side, 3mm spacer on non drive side, chain ring with 6mm offset works.

    RF Next SL fit is better, lower q, improved chain line, but more $$.

    It is supposedly a ZS44/ZS56, I have an Angleset on order in that size. Haven't measured it recently... but that's what I remember.

    [QUOTE=yeti187;13310732]Does anyone have measurements on the bottom bracket and chain line? The kona website is very lacking in technical information or contact information for them. I'm ordering parts and had planned on running regular width race face turbines thinking it was a BB92 but the kona site lists PF92 (which to my understanding is not an actual standard) and in another post someone said the BB shell width measured 100mm. If this does take a regular width crank set, are boost chain rings working OK with the chain line? If it's some fat/ mid

  86. #286
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    Got my 2018 Kona Wozo medium frame in a lovely shade of pastel blue. OMFG, who's idea was it to paint the Wozo this color? Seriously, I'm thinking about powder coating the frame as it is waaay fugly!

    Anyway, I'm piecing together the frame swap, once it's done I'll put up a formal list and price, so far it's looking like 2017 Large Wozo frame, RF 150mm dropper with Wolf Tooth lefty lever, Bluto RT3 120mm, CC Headset.

    I would much prefer selling the parts and frame together, so offers for the entire kit are preferred. Frame is in good shape, no dents or gauges, a comple small paint chips. Bluto has very few miles on it, winter use only. Dropper is in great shape, lever is new.

  87. #287
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    Okay I've read through this thread and it appears that some of y'all (NurseBen) are running 4.8's on 65 mm rims out back. Was wondering how wide a Minnion 4.8 is mounted on 65 mm rim tubed or tubless and at what psi typically.

  88. #288
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    Hey NB. What length stem you plan to run on your medium wozo?
    Just curious. I have a 50mm stem now and thinking about going back to the stock size.


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  89. #289
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    On a Large Wozo I have a 35mm, so I'll probably start with a 50mm, maybe a 60mm, just depends on how it feels riding. I tend to work on butt and leg position relative to the bb, then work from there.

    Lately I'm liking things a little less stretched out due to neck pain.

    What's the stock size?

    Quote Originally Posted by RideMN View Post
    Hey NB. What length stem you plan to run on your medium wozo?
    Just curious. I have a 50mm stem now and thinking about going back to the stock size.


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  90. #290
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    Frame swap is complete, baby blue:

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-kimg0058.jpg

    Going with a 45mm stem for now, may bump to a 60mm.

    175mm dropper was a no go, insert and extension between a 175mm and a 150mm we're too close to be worth the cost and weight.

    Sadly, the internal angleset was designed around a 1 1/8" steerer, so my only option is an external cup angleset which adds 10mm of A-C.

    Waiting on parts for the fork conversion from an EXT to an STD, planning to run 130-140mm.

    So, I got a used but not abused Kona Wozo size large frame, typical cable and tire rub marks, no dents. Also have a current model, barely used Bluto RC3 120mm fork with star nut and CC race. No headset, no spare parts, just a bare frame and the fork.

    A new Wozo frame is $700 plus tax from your local Kona dealer. Blutos RC3 goes for $600 or so. I'd like to get 1k for the pair delivered in the Continental USA.

    PM to make a deal.

  91. #291
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    Looks good man!!


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  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'm running RF Next SL Cinch 170mm carbon cranks they are slightly narrower than the RF Turbine (~6mm per side), chainstay clearance is 9-10mm. You can check the RF sie to see the q factors.

    Not sure if any crank set will have a lower q, the Next SL is a pretty flat crank arm.

    Something I've considered is cutting the BB down to fit an 83mm spindle. This mod would work with the Next SL cranks, RF has an 83mm spindle. Downside is 5" tire clearance would require a chainring swap; only an issue in the deepest of winter.
    This would be really neat, but is it really possible? To safely reduce the shell of an aluminum frame?

  93. #293
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    Sure, it's just metal, if you have a jig to make the cut square. Walt at Waltworks did one for a client, I think it was steel.

    I'm not cutting mine down, I'd sooner get Walt to build me a custom frame, then the HTA/STA and post insertion would be improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estuche View Post
    This would be really neat, but is it really possible? To safely reduce the shell of an aluminum frame?

  94. #294
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    I got to see a Wozo in person today. Helped a buddy install the bottom bracket and headset on his '17 Wozo XL. I really like the matte blue color!

    Also got to see a Manitou Mastadon in person as well... that's a burly fat fork! The tire clearance is HUGE!

    120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  95. #295
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    A Mastodon also fit great on a Large frame, but on my Medium frame there is only ~2mm of clearance, so I suspect a Small frame would not clear; which was suggesed by another poster.

    It really is a big fork, but it is also a great fork, so I suppose the frame builders will need to make adjustments.

    I do wish that Manitou would build a B+/B Fat fork, same internals and stanchions, but with a narrower crown, enough clearance for 3-4" tires, could double as a 29+ fork.

    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    I got to see a Wozo in person today. Helped a buddy install the bottom bracket and headset on his '17 Wozo XL. I really like the matte blue color!

    Also got to see a Manitou Mastadon in person as well... that's a burly fat fork! The tire clearance is HUGE!

    120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!

  96. #296
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    No offers on my Large Wozo Frame and Bluto 120mm fork?

    Last call before I put it on Pink Bike...

    Sizing, yes, the big question:

    I'm 6', 32" inseam, normal proportions. Honestly, I loved the fit of my Large Wozo, ran it with a Bluto 120, then a Mastodon EXT 120, 170mm cranks, 40mm stem, 150mm dropper.

    So why change?

    Well, first off I thought I could run a 175mm dropper. Didn't fit.
    Secondly I wanted a more agile bike for fat bike trials, so a lower standover and shorter wheelbase. Standover is better by an inch, but not as noticeable as I'd hoped. The wheelbase is shorter by an inch and the bike does feel tighter and more agile at low speeds. At high speeds I find the bike to be a little less stable than the larger frame.

    I'm now running my Medium Wozo with a Mastodon EXT 120, 170mm cranks, 60mm stem, 150mm dropper. I plan to change the fork to an STD which will reduce the A-C by 20mm. I will be adding an Angleset which will raise A-C 10mm. Finally I'm swapping to 165mm cranks.

    At my size I could go either way on the frame size. I rode the large for a year, now I'll ride the medium. I don't know that there is a perfect size when you're on the size fence. If I was a couple inches shorter I would definitely ride a medium. If I was a couple inches taller I would definitely ride a large. My son is 6'5" and when he rode my Large Wozo he said it fit okay; I'd probably put him on an XL if I built him a Wozo, but he's really tall.

    The Wozo is an inexpensive, well designed fat bike with adjustable drops, solid geo, and excellent performance. It's one of the best fat bikes available.

  97. #297
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    Excited to start building my Wozo. Mastodon Pro 120, 26-fat and 27.5+/fat wheelsets.

    Frame Bag: Anyone know what brand/style/size fits a medium Wozo best?

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    120 Mastadon fits great on his XL Wozo with a standard headset. Looks to be a killer setup!
    BTW: it was the standard Mastadon 120 fork
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  99. #299
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    Those running 29+, how much room in the sliders is there to adjust for Singlespeed use? Thanks.

  100. #300
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    Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.

    FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    Anyone have an update when the next run of Wozo's is supposed to be available? I know Nurse Ben mentioned Spring 2017, but was wondering if anyone had anything more specific? I sent an email to Kona, as well as, have a local dealer here in Denver checking but haven't heard back.

  101. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.

    FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.
    Yeah MSH, I am in the Denver area too. Spoke with Pedal Pushers in Golden about 4 weeks ago and they said they could get frames, that may have changed since. Ended up ordering online from Bikeman, they are really nice folks and should have some in stock.

  102. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebeat007 View Post
    Those running 29+, how much room in the sliders is there to adjust for Singlespeed use? Thanks.
    Plenty of room with a Minion 29 +, the tire is rideable slammed, but not in the mud. You have a big 1/2" for adjustment.

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Look a my picture, blue bike, frames are already available.

    FYI, Kona is going direct, dealers are not pleased.
    My post you are referencing is from January when it was the 2017 green. I bought a complete bike a couple days after that post, but thanks anyways

  104. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    My post you are referencing is from January when it was the 2017 green. I bought a complete bike a couple days after that post, but thanks anyways
    And no pics?

  105. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    And no pics?
    Post 201 page 3 from ride in Crested Butte. Pretty much stock build(other than upgrading the anemic stock brakes with some XT's, Lev dropper, 50mm stem, & i35 to run 29+), so nothing exciting enough to post more than the front end in that pic

  106. #306
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    Still looking to sell my 2017 Large Wozo frame AND Bluto RC3 1200mm fork.

    I will seperate if need be, but right now I'd like to sell them as a package.

    Make me an offer, consider the cost of shipping in the deal, some places (Alaska) are pricey.

    A new Kona Wozo frame is $800 plus tax.

  107. #307
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    Anybody with a new BLUE Wozo, I want to buy your stock saddle!

    Send me a PM!

  108. #308
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    Installing a RaceFace NextSL cinch crankset. Can anyone recommend the proper spacer configuration for best chainline?

  109. #309
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    I think the spacers are 2mm: two spacers non drive, one spacer drive. 6mm offset chainring (boost)

    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Installing a RaceFace NextSL cinch crankset. Can anyone recommend the proper spacer configuration for best chainline?

  110. #310
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    Looks like the 2018 frames are going quick, the time to get one is now, otherwise it'll be another season on a Farley or some other boat anchor ...

    I can package the frame with a Bluto RC3 120mm fork. Will also sell any of the above seperately. (Mastodon is sold).

    PM with questions, offers, etc.

    The snow is coming!
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 10-09-2017 at 09:12 PM.

  111. #311
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    Has the BB changed from 2017 to 2018. Kona webpage states PF92 for one and PF121 for the other. Trying to figure if I can reuse either RF Turbine or Sram GXP cranks on the wozo frame and if so which BB I'd need.

  112. #312
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    No change. I have both years, switched parts from a 2017 to a 2018, no issues.

    Of course the baby blue is ugly, but that's just my opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanr View Post
    Has the BB changed from 2017 to 2018. Kona webpage states PF92 for one and PF121 for the other. Trying to figure if I can reuse either RF Turbine or Sram GXP cranks on the wozo frame and if so which BB I'd need.

  113. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    No change. I have both years, switched parts from a 2017 to a 2018, no issues.

    Of course the baby blue is ugly, but that's just my opinion
    Do you know the BB width?

  114. #314
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    and she said: " it's so huge!"

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-kimg0522.jpg

    Barbe next to some puny Minion 3.8s

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-kimg0309.jpg

    Clearance is fair, 3/8", plenty for snow and sand, which is my go to for these wheels

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-kimg0207.jpg

    Bontragger Barbe 27.5 x 4.5 on Jackalopes, DT 350 hubs with 54t poe.

    Thanks to Mikesee for an amazing set of wheels!

    To fit these lovelies I had move the drops all the way back. These are some really tall wheels. Width is about the same as a 4.8 Minion on Large Marge rims, but height is closer to a 29+.

    They ride soooo big, reminds me of my first time on a fat bike. I'm really glad I went down to a medium frame because now I have the standover for monster tires.

  115. #315
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    I swapped the Mastodon EXT Pro for an STD Pro, adjusted the spacers to 140mm, rode it at 140mm, then aired down to 130mm.

    What a great ride, I actually liked the 140mm set up best, did not feel too tall; of course the STD at 140mm is the same as the EXT at 120mm

    Today the Hodags got some trail time, replacing the Minions 3.8. I didn't notice any loss of traction, but the weight loss was obvious.

    Still waiting on 165mm GX Eagle Fat4 to come back into stock, then I'll be ready for Winter.

  116. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanr View Post
    Do you know the BB width?
    121.5. PF92 and PF121 are essentially the same thing. 41mm cups with the last number designating shell width. They probably listed 92 last year since SRAM seems to be the only one actually using PF121 in their product descriptions.

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?

  117. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    121.5. PF92 and PF121 are essentially the same thing. 41mm cups with the last number designating shell width. They probably listed 92 last year since SRAM seems to be the only one actually using PF121 in their product descriptions.

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?
    I don't think it's slacker, the frames are identical; got both years in my garage. Kona rep said no changes.

    They made a mistake or they corrected for some variable like tires or suspension.

    Of course I'm running 130-140mm, so mine is fairly slack; rides great slack

  118. #318
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    Rides great with Fox 34 Boost Plus set at 140mm. Lots of room for 26x4.0. Gonna try 27.5x3.8 next, then maybe 29+. And a Mastodon Pro 120 on deck for winter. Very fun bike.

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-wozo_2.jpg

  119. #319
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    Interesting. I'm going strictly off of the geometry charts from both years. I may have to check with my rep because now I'm curious.

    I put a Fox 140 on my new frame running 29+ exclusively. Couldn't be happier.

  120. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Has anyone mentioned the fact that the 2018 Wozo is half a degree slacker?
    It's because on the '17 they are calculating geom with a 511mm A2C on fork length and on the '18 they are using 521mm, so yeah same geom at the end of the day

  121. #321
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    STD version limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I swapped the Mastodon EXT Pro for an STD Pro, adjusted the spacers to 140mm, rode it at 140mm, then aired down to 130mm.
    NB, I imagine that the STD version will not handle the 27.5x4.5 BGazis?
    thanks, R

  122. #322
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    Who has put Minion 27.5 x 3.8 FBF/FBR on Scraper 50mm rims? Fit is tiiiight, took me like an hour to get one on. Bead won't set well, and it'd be a nightmare changing a flat on the trail. IIRC the Hodags had a similar tight fit. Anyone have relevant experiences or advice?

  123. #323
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    FBF/FBR on 50s

    I have that exact set-up and love it right now for shoulder season and big gnar rides. In my case, I would have to say that the 'fit' of the FBF/FBRs on the Scraper 50s is one of the things I have liked, because I have been able to mount both of them with just my standard floor pump with out a compressor. I did not notice them being particularly challenging to get on or off. Granted, I usually use a lever for the very last bit of install and at the initial removal process. I have swapped them around a couple of times and could really tell the difference between getting the FBF/FBRs to seat compared to the constant challenges and pains I have had to go through to get Schwalbes seated (both Nobby Nics, less so, and especially Rocket Rons). I think that is largely due to the beefy sidewalls of the FBF/FBRs verses the light but very malleable Schwalbe sidewalls.

    Perhaps, your production round has a tighter tolerance. I got mine about 2 months ago. I think these would also be the ideal bikepacking tires as well , for when riding with heavier loads and ungroomed terrain. I'm going to try them in some snow conditions this season as well and see how they compare to a 26x4-4.8 set-up. Cheers, R

    Here's a current photo with them on:Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-img_2040.jpg

  124. #324
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    I tried everything to upload the photo right way up, but to no avail.

  125. #325
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    Fits, but tight, 1/8 of crown clearance. Good enough for me

    I had planned to reduce travel by 10mm, but it's not necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    NB, I imagine that the STD version will not handle the 27.5x4.5 BGazis?
    thanks, R

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Fits, but tight, 1/8 of crown clearance. Good enough for me

    I had planned to reduce travel by 10mm, but it's not necessary.
    If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765-770)? I really want to go with the STD vs the EXT to maintain a reasonable A2C and I don't want to change travel from 120 to 110. I've been waiting to hear if others have been successful running the 120STD with Chupas but other than the "the mayor" stating he had 1/2" of clearance in the main Mastodon thread I haven't seen anyone else confirm if the Chupas will fit.

  127. #327
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    Yes, add a 10mm spacer to limit travel on the STD and you still have 140mm travel. Even with 20mm spacers you have 130mm travel.

    [QUOTE=MSH;13381846]If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765

  128. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Rides great with Fox 34 Boost Plus set at 140mm. Lots of room for 26x4.0. Gonna try 27.5x3.8 next, then maybe 29+. And a Mastodon Pro 120 on deck for winter. Very fun bike.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    PCT can you post pics? I tried a Hodag 3.8 on a Duroc 50. It was a no go on my 2018 fox boost 34+ fork.

  129. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    If you have the 27.5 Barbegazis on there and still have clearance then I'm thinking I may be ok with my 29+ Chupa set up on i35s with the 120 STD for my Wozo. I think the OD on both those tires are near identical (765-770)? I really want to go with the STD vs the EXT to maintain a reasonable A2C and I don't want to change travel from 120 to 110. I've been waiting to hear if others have been successful running the 120STD with Chupas but other than the "the mayor" stating he had 1/2" of clearance in the main Mastodon thread I haven't seen anyone else confirm if the Chupas will fit.
    It fits, but it's tight, so to be safe you should add a 10mm spacer to limit travel. It will still be capable of being set at the A-C you want, but you won't use all the travel; 140mm will only yield 130mm, etc...

    Does this make sense to folks? It seems like there is confusion and I'm not sure why...

    The two forks have the same travel, but the EXT is longer in air shaft by 20mm, so the A-C is increased by 20mm. This additional fork length is not reducible.

    You can limit compression travel on the STD by adding spacers, this does not increase A-C, but you lose the same amount of travel that you limit.

    It's kinda the same thing in the end, but if you don't need an additional 20mm of clearance, then the STD is the better choice.

    A 765 barely clears on an STD, so safety consideration would dictate the addition of a 10mm spacer to limit travel. If you want 120mm of travel, you'd set the fork for 130mm travel, so A-C is increased by 10mm.

    Remember the shock pump trick to adjust travel/A-C, very simple trick.

  130. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Does this make sense to folks? It seems like there is confusion and I'm not sure why...
    .
    It makes complete sense. No confusion here....I get it, but if I can buy the STD and not have to f**k with it out of the box it's preferable, hence my question when you indicated the 27.5 Barbegazis fit fine.

  131. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    It makes complete sense. No confusion here....I get it, but if I can buy the STD and not have to f**k with it out of the box it's preferable, hence my question when you indicated the 27.5 Barbegazis fit fine.
    Oh, I understand, taking apart forks is time I don't have. I'd like to the Mastodon come in length options, but it ain't gonna happen at the current price points.

    A shop should be able to do it for $50.

    I had an EXT, sold it because there is no reason to get one unless you're running the tallest tires AND you want 140-150 travel.

    I'm running Barbes with a stock STD set
    at 140mm, no limiting spacers. I have a fender which will definitely ground out if I use all the travel, so I'll probably add a 10mm travel limiting spacer. But I'm not in a hurry

  132. #332
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    Where are you guys buying your forks? Was gonna get on from world wide cyclery. Great price with a 20% off discount code but they are out of stock.

  133. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    Where are you guys buying your forks? Was gonna get on from world wide cyclery. Great price with a 20% off discount code but they are out of stock.
    From them

    Got one a couple weeks ago, great price, fast shipping.

  134. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    PCT can you post pics? I tried a Hodag 3.8 on a Duroc 50. It was a no go on my 2018 fox boost 34+ fork.
    Minion FBF 27.5 x 3.8 on Scraper 50mm rim. Probably not more than 3.5 inches wide. Oodles of clearance on Fox 34 Boost Plus fork. I'd guess about 0.4 inches all around. There are several different SKU's for the Fox forks and it can be confusing...

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-20171028_115134.jpg

    A few rides in on the B-fat Minions (dry conditions) and from initial impressions I prefer the 26x4.0 Van Helga combo. FBF/FBR on Scrapers is probably lighter and more nimble but has a rounder profile and different rubber compound that affects handling. Further testing required. Honestly I need to air them down and go smash some stuff but the Minions are so tight on the Scrapers it'd take a half hour to change a pinch flat. Maybe swap back in a 27.5x3.0 rear.

    Gonna try 29+ next or some mullet combo, wondering if it'd be good for go-fast. Would not want to raise the bb much though.

  135. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post

    A few rides in on the B-fat Minions (dry conditions) and from initial impressions I prefer the 26x4.0 Van Helga combo. FBF/FBR on Scrapers is probably lighter and more nimble but has a rounder profile and different rubber compound that affects handling.
    Depending on what rims you have the Van Helgas on, that might not be the case on weight. The B Minions are heavy!!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  136. #336
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    I have a set of 27.5 x 3.8 Minions for sale, rear has one sidewall patch that is fine tubeless, front is in great shape. Sell em for a song, send a pm.

  137. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Minion FBF 27.5 x 3.8 on Scraper 50mm rim. Probably not more than 3.5 inches wide. Oodles of clearance on Fox 34 Boost Plus fork. I'd guess about 0.4 inches all around. There are several different SKU's for the Fox forks and it can be confusing...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A few rides in on the B-fat Minions (dry conditions) and from initial impressions I prefer the 26x4.0 Van Helga combo. FBF/FBR on Scrapers is probably lighter and more nimble but has a rounder profile and different rubber compound that affects handling. Further testing required. Honestly I need to air them down and go smash some stuff but the Minions are so tight on the Scrapers it'd take a half hour to change a pinch flat. Maybe swap back in a 27.5x3.0 rear.

    Gonna try 29+ next or some mullet combo, wondering if it'd be good for go-fast. Would not want to raise the bb much though.
    I definitely do not have the correct sku! Is your fork a 2018? Which sku is yours? Think i can just purchase the lowers from that sku? Thanks PCT!

  138. #338
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    Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produc...a-factory-fork

    Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.

    It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.

  139. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produc...a-factory-fork

    Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.

    It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.
    Awesome! Thank you PCT! Actually want to run the Hodag 27.5x3.8 on front of my full suspension plus bike i bought last week.

    Been on an upgrade frenzy lately! LOL Bought a leftover 2016 Farley 5. Already have a mastodon 120 comp on the way too for it.

  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Something like this, I think? https://www.probikesupply.com/produc...a-factory-fork

    Mine is from 2016, can't remember where I bought it. Stanchion clearance is massive, I have fit a 4.6 Flowbeist in there. IDK if you could retrofit new lowers in yours, probably would need the proper crown etc.

    It's a very capable fork and fits a wide variety of tire sizes. Good down to about 15-20 degrees. Hoping the Mastodon has significantly better cold-weather performance.
    Is 140mm the max travel on that fork? I'd like 160mm, any way to get more travel?

  141. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Is 140mm the max travel on that fork? I'd like 160mm, any way to get more travel?
    I think you need to step up to a Fox 36 for 160mm travel. The 34 only seems to be available up to 150. This according to there web page on the 34.

  142. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    I think you need to step up to a Fox 36 for 160mm travel. The 34 only seems to be available up to 150. This according to there web page on the 34.
    Not helpful, won't fit fat tires.

  143. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Not helpful, won't fit fat tires.
    Correct! At least you now know the 34 is only available with a 150mm air shaft.

    Unless of course i am missing something. You could always reach out to Fox.

  144. #344
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    The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm.

    I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.

  145. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm.

    I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.
    I hear that. On e of the joys of trying different stuff all the time. I start to think i am done and i wind up starting all over again thinking i can find something better. LOL Love this hobby!

    Took a chance and ordered the fox 34 that PCT linked to. Fingers crossed it is the correct one.

  146. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Mastodon is so good, I'd only consider going to a Fox if the travel was greater than 150mm.

    I'd have to rebuild wheels or build boost front wheels to swap between bikes.
    Nurse Ben, since you have quite a bit of experimentation with mastodon am i correct in thinking my 26x4.7 barbes will fit in the STD model?

  147. #347
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    Help me understand geometries

    Moved!

  148. #348
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    Edit: Already found the answer!

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    Kona designed for a short chainstay, so they bent the seat tube and used a low profile chainstay yoke. Kona likes long and low geometry, not all consumers like that design. It's not about sizing, it's about fit.

    Ventana designs for a more upright riding position, so their bikes are shorter in the front triangle. Ventana chainstays are longer, but not out of the norm for a fat bike. The Gordo has a substantial yoke and a less bent seat post.

    Standover matters, so I'd look at that closely when deciding on a frame you cant try first. I typically ride a large frame, but on the Wozo I dropped down from a large to a medium due to standover and reach. The Wozo also has a low bb, so it benefits from taller wheels.

    STA matters if you want shorter chainstays and less reach change when dropping your seat. a steeper STA generally leads to a long front end to compensate.

    HTA is personal preference, slacker HTA reduces reach and typically leads to a longer front end.

    Personally, I like the El Gordo, I owned a Ventana's tandem fat which is based on the El Gordo, Sherwood makes a high quality product. If I was to purchase an El Gordo, it'd be a custom geo, short chainstays, steeper STA, slacker HTA, and maybe a pinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estuche View Post
    This might seem silly to y'all experienced builders, but I cannot wrap my head around the fact that brands like Kona can come up with frames like the Wozo with a TT length of 630mm and call it a medium, whereas for example, Ventana has el Gordo with a TT length of 588mm.

    What should I pay attention to? Is it the ST angle, HT length? Is it the fact that the Kona uses a larger diameter tire front vs. back? Please help me understand a bit of frame design.

    Kona:
    KONA BIKES | MTB | FATBIKE | Wozo

    Ventana:
    http://www.ventanausa.com/images/bik...art-090517.pdf

  150. #350
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    Maybe, I have tight clearance on a Barbe 4.5, the 4.7 is taller, but you could probably get by with adding a 10mm spacer; worse case a 20mm spacer. This is the grey area, your choice is your own, I'm just another cubicle jockey

    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    Nurse Ben, since you have quite a bit of experimentation with mastodon am i correct in thinking my 26x4.7 barbes will fit in the STD model?

  151. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Kona designed for a short chainstay, so they bent the seat tube and used a low profile chainstay yoke. Kona likes long and low geometry, not all consumers like that design. It's not about sizing, it's about fit.

    Ventana designs for a more upright riding position, so their bikes are shorter in the front triangle. Ventana chainstays are longer, but not out of the norm for a fat bike. The Gordo has a substantial yoke and a less bent seat post.

    Standover matters, so I'd look at that closely when deciding on a frame you cant try first. I typically ride a large frame, but on the Wozo I dropped down from a large to a medium due to standover and reach. The Wozo also has a low bb, so it benefits from taller wheels.

    STA matters if you want shorter chainstays and less reach change when dropping your seat. a steeper STA generally leads to a long front end to compensate.

    HTA is personal preference, slacker HTA reduces reach and typically leads to a longer front end.

    Personally, I like the El Gordo, I owned a Ventana's tandem fat which is based on the El Gordo, Sherwood makes a high quality product. If I was to purchase an El Gordo, it'd be a custom geo, short chainstays, steeper STA, slacker HTA, and maybe a pinion.
    Thanks, this helps a lot, so if I wanted a more upright position, but still have some of the playfulness of short stays, what would that custom geo look like? In other words, if I wanted to fushion the Wozo and Gordo, could I just add some of the Wozo specs like those you mention (chainstays, ST and HT angles) and keep the rest as is? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind for the perfect hybrid?

  152. #352
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    I can't tell you what you want, body type, riding position, riding style, terrain, these are all rider specific. I own a Wozo medium and a Fatillac large, the bikes are very different, but I like them both.

    If you want a more compact design with short chainstays, the Lenz Fatillac has that geo, maybe look at what Devin builds.

    If you want to pay for custom geo, like a Level 2 El Gordo (~$1500), I'm sure Sherwood would work with you, but it'll probably take a few months. Waltworks will also build you a sweet custom. Custom costs more and takes time.

    The easiest and cheapest fix with winter pending is to build a bike with an existing frame that is close to fitting your needs, then ride it and decide for yourself what you'd do different if you were the builder. Then order your custom frame, swap frames, and sell the production frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estuche View Post
    Thanks, this helps a lot, so if I wanted a more upright position, but still have some of the playfulness of short stays, what would that custom geo look like? In other words, if I wanted to fushion the Wozo and Gordo, could I just add some of the Wozo specs like those you mention (chainstays, ST and HT angles) and keep the rest as is? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind for the perfect hybrid?

  153. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Maybe, I have tight clearance on a Barbe 4.5, the 4.7 is taller, but you could probably get by with adding a 10mm spacer; worse case a 20mm spacer. This is the grey area, your choice is your own, I'm just another cubicle jockey
    Thank you NB. Not bad for a cubicle jockey. LOL Lets see what i come up with.

  154. #354
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    Just placed an order for a frame only, we shall see.

    Edit, now kinda worried after reading that a 4.6 Dunderbeist on a 90 might be a little tight on the back?

  155. #355
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    It might be close depending how large the tires actually run. Here's my frame with an Edna 4.3 on an 80SL (measuring 108mm @ 20psi):

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-edna-wozo-435.jpg

  156. #356
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    Might be tight, worse case scenario you rebuild with a narrower rim or step down to a slightly narrower tire. I ran a 4.8 minion on a 65mm large marge and it was fine. From memory you have space for 110mm depending; 106-107mm on my Minions left ample room for mud and snow.

    Great frame!

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Just placed an order for a frame only, we shall see.

    Edit, now kinda worried after reading that a 4.6 Dunderbeist on a 90 might be a little tight on the back?

  157. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Might be tight, worse case scenario you rebuild with a narrower rim or step down to a slightly narrower tire. I ran a 4.8 minion on a 65mm large marge and it was fine. From memory you have space for 110mm depending; 106-107mm on my Minions left ample room for mud and snow.

    Great frame!
    I am right at 110mm with my Beist on 90's so might work for snow?? Ben do you have any knob to downtube clearance issues with your Mastodon?

  158. #358
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    Large frame had lots of clearance, medium frame has enough clearance (5mm or so), I believe the small frame interferes.

    I think you'll be fine on those tires, though you'll have to play around with drop out placement to get the tire in the right placement.

    I'm running 130-140mm travel depending on my mood, so easy to change travel. No longer using an angleset.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I am right at 110mm with my Beist on 90's so might work for snow?? Ben do you have any knob to downtube clearance issues with your Mastodon?

  159. #359
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    Agree that at 110mm you should be ok if that is widest point / knob-knob; the Edna is stretching to within a mm or so of that.

    My medium Wozo shows about the same 5mm clearance between the down tube and the Mastodon that Ben is seeing.

    I'm guessing it would be possible to gain some downtube clearance using the Salsa Cane Creek +3 40mm Crown Race that Salsa had made for Bluto compatibility with some of their frames.

  160. #360
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    Thanks David.p, any complete pics of your ride yet??

    Kinda nervous about giving up my ti frame for the WOZO but needed some change. That and I now have a bike park in my backyard so I'm hoping for a bike I can still hit some jump lines with when I go out with the kids for a mellow ride.

  161. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Thanks David.p, any complete pics of your ride yet??
    Not yet but hopefully this time next week - parts are still trickling in.

  162. #362
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    Hey could someone with a medium measure the inside of the triangle from the bottom of the top tube to the bb shell (straight line don't worry about the curved seat tube) and along the bottom of the top tube between the seat tube and where the down tube and top tube come together up by the head tube. Just a rough measurement is fine, trying to figure out if my frame bag will fit. Thanks!!

  163. #363
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    I measured roughly 19"x10"

  164. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    I measured roughly 19"x10"
    Thanks man!!

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    If using a 27.5 x 3.8 (~750mm) is it really possible to keep the shortest chainstays (420mm), if not, what is the approx. length when using say a Hodag or Minion? I'd really like to know please answer

    Edit: the answer is yes based on early posts, my bad!

  166. #366
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    My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??

  167. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??
    A rigid post :P

  168. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??
    These aluminum cable guides from Paragon that dustyduke22 recommended here--> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/kon...l#post12962998

    They are clean solution and work really well. I bought the CC4111's here---> CC4111 - Aluminum Cable Clamp 4.2 mm Housing

  169. #369
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    I got some stick on cable guides, work fine.

    You can also hit up Home Depot/Lowes and get some cable hold downs, they have a hole that can be enlarged to fit on the existing bosses.

    Yeah, I'm not sure what Kona was thinking...

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    My frame only didn't come with anything to mount the cable for the internal dropper, whatcha all using??

  170. #370
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    So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
    HTA: 70 degree
    STA: 76
    BB height: 11.5" BB
    Stack: 641 (16mm lower)
    I calculated this using a possible un worthy application so you engineers please correct any or all mistakes I made....I'm hoping I'm wrong!
    So after my disheartening observation I'm down from my high and back to reality. In hope I was wrong I called KONA directly and they confirmed the Geo Chart for the WOZO was static un-sagged. I did some more calculations and figured I would have to run a 140mm Mastodon to achieve the geo numbers listed on their website. I'm think 140mm is a lot of extra travel I don't need for a winter only bike. Someone out there please tell me all the above info is incorrect! Actually it's kind of a win win. Either I get a sweet new fatty or save money by riding the current one in the stable.

  171. #371
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    It’s correct, your money is safe.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  172. #372
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    69 deg HTA with a 100mm Bluto, JJ 4.8 front/JJ 4.0 rear. So real life might be 69.25deg.

    Bump the fork to a Mastodon 140mm like I'm running and you get close to 67deg, which I can confirm by eyeball with my Fatillac which is also 67deg.

    If the Wozo sucked and the geo was as you predict, no one on this thread would be riding one and certainly no one would be using it as a measure for modern fat bike geo.

    I'm on my second one. I consider it a hard tail version of my Fatillac, though a bit more stretched and lighter weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
    HTA: 70 degree
    STA: 76
    BB height: 11.5" BB
    Stack: 641 (16mm lower)
    I calculated this using a possible un worthy application so you engineers please correct any or all mistakes I made....I'm hoping I'm wrong!
    So after my disheartening observation I'm down from my high and back to reality. In hope I was wrong I called KONA directly and they confirmed the Geo Chart for the WOZO was static un-sagged. I did some more calculations and figured I would have to run a 140mm Mastodon to achieve the geo numbers listed on their website. I'm think 140mm is a lot of extra travel I don't need for a winter only bike. Someone out there please tell me all the above info is incorrect! Actually it's kind of a win win. Either I get a sweet new fatty or save money by riding the current one in the stable.

  173. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    If the Wozo sucked and the geo was as you predict, no one on this thread would be riding one and certainly no one would be using it as a measure for modern fat bike geo.
    I never said the actual geo sucked, it's just not as attractive as what they posted on their website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    So I became really interested in Wozo due to it's Geo. I prefer high stack and long reach in addition to slack HTA and steep STA. After a quick glance at the geo charts listed on their website I was blown away and ready to order. The more I looked at the chart the more it just didn't add up. A 657mm stack and 510mm reach on the XL while still having a 74.5 STA was amazing. Then I noticed they were claiming a 521mm fork length, but I thought I read it came stock with a 100mm Bluto. I know the Bluto usually measures around 483-486mm with 20% sag based on on the rigid fat forks. So in reality with this bike at 20% it sits:
    HTA: 70 degree
    STA: 76
    BB height: 11.5" BB
    Stack: 641 (16mm lower)
    I calculated this using a possible un worthy application so you engineers please correct any or all mistakes I made....I'm hoping I'm wrong!
    So after my disheartening observation I'm down from my high and back to reality. In hope I was wrong I called KONA directly and they confirmed the Geo Chart for the WOZO was static un-sagged. I did some more calculations and figured I would have to run a 140mm Mastodon to achieve the geo numbers listed on their website. I'm think 140mm is a lot of extra travel I don't need for a winter only bike. Someone out there please tell me all the above info is incorrect! Actually it's kind of a win win. Either I get a sweet new fatty or save money by riding the current one in the stable.
    Sorry, but I can't stop laughing after hearing this. Nurse Ben has taken every opportunity to ridicule anyone who choses to ride a bike with greater than a ~67 degree headtube angle, regardless of their local conditions or handling preferences. Yet, without using an angleset (see his post above), even with a long-ish 140mm Std Mastodon at 20% sag, he's been running a 69 degree HTA all along on his Wozo...or more. Ben, I feel bad for you -- you've been suffering with a non-modern geometry bike and didn't even know it! And if you've been running the Mastodon at 130mm of travel (again see post above), your suffering has even been worse!

  175. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    69 deg HTA with a 100mm Bluto, JJ 4.8 front/JJ 4.0 rear. So real life might be 69.25deg.

    Bump the fork to a Mastodon 140mm like I'm running and you get close to 67deg, which I can confirm by eyeball with my Fatillac which is also 67deg.

    If the Wozo sucked and the geo was as you predict, no one on this thread would be riding one and certainly no one would be using it as a measure for modern fat bike geo.

    I'm on my second one. I consider it a hard tail version of my Fatillac, though a bit more stretched and lighter weight.
    Sorry, you can "eyeball" all you want, but your folly has been exposed!

  176. #376
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    Wait, you mean manufacturers aren't listing geometry at sag? Shocking.

    The Wozo up next to most(all?) other hardtail fat bikes still has more progressive geometry. Even compared to most hardtails in general, it's difficult to find that many that have a listed head angle slacker than 69* (that's static. I guess that needs to be stated now).

    To claim that you need to run a 140mm fork to match the geometry on the website is simply wrong. You'd match the geometry on the website *sagged*, but you'd still be adding 30-40mm of A-C, so it wouldn't 'match'.

    If Kona lists 68.5* with a 521mm fork, my Fox 140 at 547mm should sit just north of 67* static. I don't see what's wrong with Ben's numbers (though I hate to admit it {Hi Ben! }).

    I personally don't pay a ton of attention to stack when looking at geometry, but I can say that my bars (large frame) sit 2" higher than a similarly setup XL Santa Cruz High Tower LT.

  177. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Wait, you mean manufacturers aren't listing geometry at sag? Shocking.
    You could be right about manufactures not listing geo charts at sag. I know it's not done on FS bikes since the front and rear essentially both sag not affecting the static geo angles. Same goes for rigid bikes of course, but HT's sag on the front end only can dramatically change geo.

    I've been riding Beargrease's for a couple years now and know they list their geo charts based on a 100mm Bluto at 25% sag. Not sure what other companies do with their HT's. I've been comparing all other options against the sagged BG charts which I now realize takes some extra math.

    Either way, all that matters is that it feels right on the trail. I know that I'm attracted to the short chainstays, steep STA, and high stack on the Wozo. The problem for me is to justify a new build I'm not willing to go to a even lower BB and steaper HTA then my BG's 68.5 HTA. So according to Kona and apparrently other manufactures standard static measuring my BG actually rocks a 66.83 HTA... sweet!

  178. #378
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    Correction... I just went back and looked up the "static" A2C on 100mm Bluto and it's listed at 511mm on SRAM's and Salsa's website. The Wozo static geo chart is based on a fork with a 521mm even though it states it comes stock with a 100mm Bluto. So it seems they fluffed the HTA, stack, and BB height with a additional 10mm up front. So while the other numbers may seem progressive in reality it has one of the steepest STA's on the market😂. To make things even worse, it comes stock with a 4.8 up front and 4.0 out back. So if you ever decide to run equal size tire's front and rear it steepens up even more! Good thing the extremely steep STA allows the option to run a 40mm longer travel fork! Still hope I'm wrong, but find it pretty funny till proven otherwise.....

  179. #379
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    So, JP had a brain fart, we all good now?

    Seriously, you all need to ride more and read less. The buyer’s constipation around this place is amazing.

    The only way to avoid having your HTA steepen when you ride a bike is to run rigid or run full suspension. I figured that was common sense, but this is the era of new populism 😂

    Enjoy that super slack Beargrease, I don’t miss mine one bit.

  180. #380
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    The Wozo has forward thinking geometry and is a welcome addition to the other fat bike geometries out there (especially the long reach and short chainstays). That said, it's not a slack frame. Companies like Surly and Salsa list their geometry at the rigid fork length, which just happens to also be the sagged fork length for the designed suspension fork length for said frame. I'm glad Kona brought the Wozo out, I just wish it had a 68.5 HT angle at SAG. I spent some time on a Honzo myself. It was a fun frame, but I had to run a 140mm fork on it to make it enjoyable.
    I was on a Singular Puffin frame when the Wozo was released. At first I got excited and thought it was the perfect replacement to keep shorter stays and go a tad slacker, until I realized the geometry was unsagged.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  181. #381
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    Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-gr001-3598_wozo-1024.jpg

    Frame: Medium
    Fork: Manitou Mastodon Comp Std 120mm
    Headset: Cane Creek 40 ZS Tapered
    BB: Race Face BB86/92, press fit, 41mm diameter, 24mm spindle
    Crankset: Race Face Aeffect Fat Bike crank, 170mm arm x 170mm and Race Face Cinch spider 104/64 bcd
    Chainring: Wolftooth Drop-Stop Powertrac 30t 64bcd
    Bash Guard: BBG 32t 104bcd
    Shifter: Shimano SLX SL-M7000 11sp
    Rear Der: Shimano SLX RD-M7000 11sp GS
    Cassette: Shimano SLX M7000 11sp, 11-46t
    Chain: KMC X11.93
    Brakes: Shimano BR-M615 Deore
    Rotors: Shimano XT SM-RT76 6 bolt, 180mm/160mm
    Wheels: SUNringlé Mulefut 80SL wheelset
    Tires: Maxxis Minion FBF 4.8 120tpi DC/EXO; Surly Edna 4.3 60 tpi
    Pedals: Race Face chester
    Seat Post: Oval M750 31.6 x 400mm
    Saddle: WTB Pure V
    Handlebar: Jones H-bar
    Stem: RaceFace Evolve 70mm

    Kona Wozo Review: 420mm chainstay, runs 29+ to 26 x 4.8!-gr001-3600_wozo-1024.jpg

  182. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So, JP had a brain fart, we all good now
    I'm confused, which part of the previous statements were a brain fart? I backed up all my thoughts with data provided by Kona and Rockshox. Please be more specific Nurse Ben. Also, I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to get the real numbers on the Wozo. The only person I'm remotely attacking is the one published the Wozo geo chart. If you love the bike that's all that matters. It seems clear you didn't love it in it's stock geo setup either, hence the massive fork and I thought I read you had a list of other things you'd change. Not everyone is willing to throw a 40mm longer fork on a brand new bike just to make it capable for their trails. Ignorance is bliss, just go ride and stop reading if this is bothersome... cheers!

    Side note: I never said my BG is super slack. However I do know it is a true 68.5 at stock form and a lot more slack then the Wozo sadly😩

  183. #383
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    Call Kona directly if you need more clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    I'm confused, ...

  184. #384
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    Ya gonna extend that fork a bit? the Comp will go to 140mm.

    Once you have the extra travel you can adjust travel by shock pump. Nice to have options.

    I end up leaving mine at 140mm, though a few times after adjusting pressure I didn't extend the fork fully and ended up with less

    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GR001-3598_wozo-1024.jpg 
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ID:	1166546

    Frame: Medium
    Fork: Manitou Mastodon Comp Std 120mm
    Headset: Cane Creek 40 ZS Tapered
    BB: Race Face BB86/92, press fit, 41mm diameter, 24mm spindle
    Crankset: Race Face Aeffect Fat Bike crank, 170mm arm x 170mm and Race Face Cinch spider 104/64 bcd
    Chainring: Wolftooth Drop-Stop Powertrac 30t 64bcd
    Bash Guard: BBG 32t 104bcd
    Shifter: Shimano SLX SL-M7000 11sp
    Rear Der: Shimano SLX RD-M7000 11sp GS
    Cassette: Shimano SLX M7000 11sp, 11-46t
    Chain: KMC X11.93
    Brakes: Shimano BR-M615 Deore
    Rotors: Shimano XT SM-RT76 6 bolt, 180mm/160mm
    Wheels: SUNringlé Mulefut 80SL wheelset
    Tires: Maxxis Minion FBF 4.8 120tpi DC/EXO; Surly Edna 4.3 60 tpi
    Pedals: Race Face chester
    Seat Post: Oval M750 31.6 x 400mm
    Saddle: WTB Pure V
    Handlebar: Jones H-bar
    Stem: RaceFace Evolve 70mm

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GR001-3600_wozo-1024.jpg 
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ID:	1166547

  185. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Call Kona directly if you need more clarification.
    I just got off the phone with Kona and they saw the discrepancies in the Geo chart. He looked up the geometry from the previous year and it shows the Bluto correctly at 511 mm. He told me he's going to reach out to the engineer for the Wozo and get back to me.

  186. #386
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    An angleset headset took any worries away and added a plethora of geo options. The external lower cup added 8-10mm of extra height (stack) and the +/- 1.5 degree of adjustability let me get a silly 66.75 upto a 69.5 HA running a 120mm Bluto.

  187. #387
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    So does the Wozo pretty much have to run a suspension fork? Looking at the required A-C of at least 511mm and even accounting for sag, I'm don't think a rigid fork would have a long enough A-C. Longest I've seen are 485 or so.

    Any one running one rigid? Sorry, I skimmed the thread but didn't see anyone.

  188. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Ya gonna extend that fork a bit? the Comp will go to 140mm.
    Maybe. I also have a skinny-tired, full suspension 27.5 that is 140mm front and back and I'm not sure I need/want 140mm on a fatty/29+ hardtail. I do plan on swapping spacers around to add 10mm of crown height at 120mm. But yes it's nice to have options.

  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
    So does the Wozo pretty much have to run a suspension fork? Looking at the required A-C of at least 511mm and even accounting for sag, I'm don't think a rigid fork would have a long enough A-C. Longest I've seen are 485 or so.

    Any one running one rigid? Sorry, I skimmed the thread but didn't see anyone.
    It's designed for a suspension fork. You can run rigid (I've seen a few between this and another Wozo thread) but the HTA will steepen and the BB will come down.

    Still, I'm considering a rigid to swap in at times. Longest rigid fork I've seen is 490mm a-c on a Brontrager Haru or RSD carbon. The 483mm Salsa/Surly forks are next. Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race (or an angleset headset) will add a few millimeters.

  190. #390
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    OK, so I'm not off base here - it really is a frame intended for suspension. Thanks for the info.

  191. #391
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    No such thing as a frame designed for suspension other than a full suspension bike. Any bike can be run rigid, More importantly, what is the A-C around which the frame is designed.

    The Wozo geo specd on their website is based on a 100mm travel suspension fork like the Bluto, which with sag works out to the same as what you should expect from a rigid fork, maybe a tad steeper HTA by 0.5 deg.

    In other words, don't worry about it, just run rigid.

    Of course, I think you should run a 140mm travel Mastodon, well, at least 120mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
    OK, so I'm not off base here - it really is a frame intended for suspension. Thanks for the info.

  192. #392
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    Just ordered the tool kit to extend my Mastodon to 140. Main reason I purchased this frame was for the head angle but my "old school frame" is slacker. Fairly disappointed in the geo chart being off, thanks JP for doing the legwork.

  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Just ordered the tool kit to extend my Mastodon to 140. Main reason I purchased this frame was for the head angle but my "old school frame" is slacker. Fairly disappointed in the geo chart being off, thanks JP for doing the legwork.
    Wozo HTA stock build with a 100mm Bluto, 4.0/4.8 tires, is 69 deg.

    Wozo with a 120mm fork ~ 68 deg HTA

    Wozo with a 140mm fork ~ 67 deg HTA

    If you want to run a shorter fork and have a slacker HTA, then use an angleset.

    Nothing has changed.

  194. #394
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    So I finally had a chance to talk to the engineer that was in charge of the Wozo. We both pulled the geometry chart up and I addressed my concerns about the fork length stated was 521mm when in actuality he the Bluto is 511 mm without sag. He agreed the 521 mm was incorrect and not sure why the chart changed from the previous year using the correct 511 mm Bluto. After talking for a bit he admitted that the original plans were to build the Wozo around a 521mm fork. Somewhere the ball was dropped in communication. Stocking the bike with a 4.8 upfront and a 4.0 in the rear was bandaid for the HTA mistake. He suggested a head cup spacer and a 120 Bluto for the desired 68.5 HTA. He said he was going to update the Geo chart on their website ASAP.
    So no, this bike was not intended to run a rigid fork unless you could come up with a custom 521 mm fork. I run the Bontrager Haru fork which is 491mm I believe. Running that fork would steepen the HTA and lower the bottom bracket well beyond most riders comfort level.
    I told them that riders are throwing on a 140 mm fork to improve the geometry. He thanked me for my feedback and asked that I keep in touch. I may have to wait out till next year to see if they update the frame.
    Nurse ben, I hope you didn't buy a newer Wozo based off of the newer geo charts. The frame geometry did not change.

  195. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Wozo HTA stock build with a 100mm Bluto, 4.0/4.8 tires, is 69 deg.

    Wozo with a 120mm fork ~ 68 deg HTA

    Wozo with a 140mm fork ~ 67 deg HTA

    If you want to run a shorter fork and have a slacker HTA, then use an angleset.

    Nothing has changed.
    Really no big deal but it did change things. I was hoping on running a 120mm fork would put me @ 67.5 deg but now I need to go to 140mm to get there. And no way can I run my rigid 491mm fork this winter which is about equivalent to a 100mm Bluto plus sag which I thought the frame was built around. My mistake for not taking the difference size tires into the equation but I'm guessing the frame wasn't built around that in the first place.

    Like I said no big deal I will deal with it and I'm sure it will be a rad bike but....... Plus I will lose needed standover. I'm sure it will be fine in the end.

  196. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    So I finally had a chance to talk to the engineer that was in charge of the Wozo. We both pulled the geometry chart up and I addressed my concerns about the fork length stated was 521mm when in actuality he the Bluto is 511 mm without sag. He agreed the 521 mm was incorrect and not sure why the chart changed from the previous year using the correct 511 mm Bluto. After talking for a bit he admitted that the original plans were to build the Wozo around a 521mm fork. Somewhere the ball was dropped in communication. Stocking the bike with a 4.8 upfront and a 4.0 in the rear was bandaid for the HTA mistake.
    Nice work and thanks for sharing this. I will say the danky ganj up in WA must be off the charts. I'm not tracking how these guys/gals at Kona go to production on a bike in their lineup without dottin' the i's and crossin' the t's? Then they have to resort to the 4.8/4.0 to fix it LOL.
    Whatever the case I still love this thing. Shakedown ride today with the new Mastodon at 130 was sweet!

  197. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Finished my build and got a shakedown ride in this morning. Can't wait to get more ride time in.

    Sweet whip btw!!

  198. #398
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    A Wozo with 120mm fork and 68 deg is pretty close, same as a Honzo.

    Just get an angleset, they work fine, I've run them on tandems, fat bikes, and FS bikes.

    I highly recommend setting your Mastodon at 140mm, then use a shock pump to reduce to 120-130mm. You might find that 140mm is sweet.

    The tire size difference maybe changes the HTA by 0.25 deg, not significant.

    You guys are going way overboard, there is nothing new here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Really no big deal but it did change things. I was hoping on running a 120mm fork would put me @ 67.5 deg but now I need to go to 140mm to get there. And no way can I run my rigid 491mm fork this winter which is about equivalent to a 100mm Bluto plus sag which I thought the frame was built around. My mistake for not taking the difference size tires into the equation but I'm guessing the frame wasn't built around that in the first place.

    Like I said no big deal I will deal with it and I'm sure it will be a rad bike but....... Plus I will lose needed standover. I'm sure it will be fine in the end.

  199. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    A Wozo with 120mm fork and 68 deg is pretty close, same as a Honzo.

    Just get an angleset, they work fine, I've run them on tandems, fat bikes, and FS bikes.
    I like the works components headsets myself.

  200. #400
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    I've run my Wozo with both a Carver Popeye and Carver XC490 fork (both are 490mm) and had no issues. I loved the bike and only put a 140 on to change things up a bit (which ultimately I'm glad I did).

    Every frame was designed with a particular setup in mind, I don't know why that automatically means deviating from that setup is out of the question. I understand that you steepen the bike a bit, and that you'll lower your bottom bracket. But people invest way too much time/effort into theorizing how something may or may not ride. If you want to ride the Wozo rigid, do it. You can easily find a rigid fork that is an appropriate A-C (balls to whether Kona designed the bike around a 120 fork or not, they're selling it with a 100mm Bluto and half-assed workaround with the tires). A 483-490 fork will be plenty close to the stock feel of the bike, and if you're that worried, continue with a 4.0/4.8 setup.

    I agree that the Beargrease is more slack. Cool deal since I thought it was 69. Go figure. Still, static it'd be 67.5-68*. No idea where you're getting 66.83 from. To go along with this though, if you want to compare geometries the Wozo still has a steeper seat tube angle, shorter chainstays, and longer top tube.

    That said, I seriously think you guys are overthinking this and the Wozo is indeed progressive for a fat bike.

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