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  1. #1
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    Kold Kutter screws going in...

    So I picked up a 250 pack of Kold Kutter 3/8 inch screws that I hope to install on my barely used 4.5 Snowshoes. I just screwed one in and of course it came through about 1/16 inch the inside of the tire. Looking on their site, they actually recommend a tire liner for ice racing motocross.

    I am looking for a similar application or maybe even ghetto tubeless to take care of the problem. Any ideas on how best to handle this? Also thinking a blob of silicone over the screw tip might work. New at studding tires and this is the shortest screw they make. Planning on around 120+ per tire to start with.

    Maybe Mikesee can chime in here since I see he has already done this on some tires recently?

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  2. #2
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    Screw them and grind them down flush with the inside of the tire add some glue on the cut screw.
    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

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    I installed mine (also 3/8") on a set of tires that were already holding tubeless. Didn't lose a drop of sealant nor measurable air on either tire, *except* when I backed one of 'em out to see what would happen. Orange Seal plugged it pretty quick.

    Pretty unmotivated to spend the time grinding, and since they have tubeless schmeg on them already I'm not sure how well glue would hold.

    Will have to figure it out eventually, because eventually I will flat and need a tube.

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    I ran a set of snowshoes last year with coldcutters ghetto on fatboy rims no problems at all.ran 5 psi on roots rock ice and snow,you know its nh.these got way more traction than dilly 5 studs but were slower on dirt.i also ran gripstuds in snowshoes with great results although cost is way high.i will not run dilly 5 again as they just don't give enough grip .going to try coldcutters in bud and lou this year.

  5. #5
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    Kold Kutter screws going in...-8a3a0211.jpg

  6. #6
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    I would think, even tubeless, you would have to be wary of gouging the rim with the screw tips on rim hits when running low enough pressure or going big/fast enough.

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    Would it be possible to use a pair of pliers or bolt cutters to shorten/flatten the points (prior to insertion)?
    Maybe take off just 1/16th", not sure that's possible though. Sounds like a lot less work, on paper, than grinding them inside the tire.

    In this scenario, you'd likely have to pre-drill since they wouldn't self-tap very well.

  8. #8
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    You guys are nuts, just run the screws in, add sealer and ride! I have been doing this for years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    You guys are nuts, just run the screws in, add sealer and ride! I have been doing this for years!
    Tubeless, yes?
    What about those with rim/tire combos that don't seal well/at all?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    You guys are nuts, just run the screws in, add sealer and ride! I have been doing this for years!
    And then? When eventually you hit something odd and ding the rim or cut the casing and it goes flat? And you're 10, 20, 100 miles from the trailhead and sticking a tube in won't get you even 100 feet closer to home because it will immediately be perforated by 250 very sharp screws? Then what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Would it be possible to use a pair of pliers or bolt cutters to shorten/flatten the points (prior to insertion)?
    Maybe take off just 1/16th", not sure that's possible though. Sounds like a lot less work, on paper, than grinding them inside the tire.

    In this scenario, you'd likely have to pre-drill since they wouldn't self-tap very well.
    Or you could turn the tire inside out. With a bench grinder it took no time at all.
    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  12. #12
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    A tire plug kit will take care of most holes that the sealant won't fix.
    Bring some automotive sized plug strips in case of bigger holes.
    Or some closed cell foam or something.

    Bench grinder trick sounds like a good idea, though.
    I tried to snip the ends with a bolt cutter last year, but no go, hardened steel in the Kold Kutters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    And then? When eventually you hit something odd and ding the rim or cut the casing and it goes flat? And you're 10, 20, 100 miles from the trailhead and sticking a tube in won't get you even 100 feet closer to home because it will immediately be perforated by 250 very sharp screws? Then what?
    Then you ask that guy with the e-bike to borrow one of his 6 layers of black floyd/tube/tuffy liner strips he's running in his wheels for ultimate ULTIMATE! road hazard protection.

  14. #14
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    Tried yesterday to cut a kold kutter. With a grinder. No problem. No pilot hole. Just screw the kold kutter in to the tire. Easier than I thought.

  15. #15
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    Not as pretty as mikesee's but should get me across the pond. Starting out with about 125 per tire and hope to keep it upright on the ice this year!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kold Kutter screws going in...-2015-11-18-17.09.50.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Not as pretty as mikesee's but should get me across the pond. Starting out with about 125 per tire and hope to keep it upright on the ice this year!
    Which method did you use to ensure that the points don't take out the tube? Or are you risking it tubeless? :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Which method did you use to ensure that the points don't take out the tube? Or are you risking it tubeless? :P
    Hittin the wheel grinder after I have them in. Just going to fold the tire inside out and proceed to grind off the tips. May also dab em with silcone or other to ensure tubes won't catch a sharp edge. And them add some sealant to my tubes....should be good to go after all that. Kind of a pain, but works when you're on a budget.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Hittin the wheel grinder after I have them in. Just going to fold the tire inside out and proceed to grind off the tips. May also dab em with silcone or other to ensure tubes won't catch a sharp edge. And them add some sealant to my tubes....should be good to go after all that. Kind of a pain, but works when you're on a budget.
    I wish I had access to a grinder
    I was thinking I might wait until they're needed here, and then just head to the hardware store and pick up some rounded/mushroom head 3/8" sheet metal screws, and drill pilot holes through knobs, then push screws through them, heads in. Then just cover these guys with gorilla tape or even duct.

    I've been trying not to overthink everything, as this will be my first winter on the fat (or first winter REALLY biking), and I want to buy a whole bunch of stuff I probably don't/won't need. Going to let the winter come, and piecemeal things as needed.... if I can behave on the Black Friday sales.

  19. #19
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    I ran them into my dirtybike tires with 5200. It's messy, wear rubber gloves, but once it cures, those screws are NEVER coming out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I ran them into my dirtybike tires with 5200. It's messy, wear rubber gloves, but once it cures, those screws are NEVER coming out.
    Cold Cutters? What purpose did the 5200 serve other than keeping them in?
    I'm mostly just wanting to do the cutters because they're easier - Don't require pre-drilling and will have a better wear life than screws from the inside out.... But I don't like the idea of pointy things being pressured within mm of my tube :X

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    Was wondering if someone could give me impressions vs. carbide press-in studs. I've ridden the carbide studs my whole life, and I'm wondering if these are not only a better deal, but also perform better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Cold Cutters? What purpose did the 5200 serve other than keeping them in?
    I'm mostly just wanting to do the cutters because they're easier - Don't require pre-drilling and will have a better wear life than screws from the inside out.... But I don't like the idea of pointy things being pressured within mm of my tube :X
    Yes, cold cutters. The 5200 is only there to keep the screw in the tire. It works.
    I wouldn't be comfy with the ends on the tube either. I'd either have to silicone the ends inside the tire too, or run tubeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    Was wondering if someone could give me impressions vs. carbide press-in studs. I've ridden the carbide studs my whole life, and I'm wondering if these are not only a better deal, but also perform better?
    There is no comparison. Kold Kutters take ice traction to a level that takes ice riding from doable but sketchy (carbide type studs in MTB tires) to what I will almost call boring due to the traction. I've spent plenty of time in Moab (lived in Salt Lake for 8 years), and slickrock riding is the closest thing that I can compare to riding a Kold Kutter studded fat tire.

    We tested a bike with custom studded Snowshoe XL with 480 carbide studs (see pic of that one in another thread) on the same ''frozen waterfall'' as seen in the video below. That bike spun out immediately, while my Kold Kutter bike seen in the video (approx 240 Kutters per tire) rode straight up.


    Note: if worried about the sharp tips, grinding those off is easy with a bench grinder, and surprisingly, the Kutters screw right into the knobs with the ends of the screws ground flat.

    Kold Kutters are cheap, and the good folks that make them are super nice as well
    Last edited by Espen W; 11-20-2015 at 05:50 AM.

  24. #24
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    When I saw this KK video last year, I knew I had to have them....AND then I saw the price, 20 bucks for a package of 250! Its a no brainer. If a few come out, just grab some more, zip em in and off you go!
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  25. #25
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    I am going to be putting half my miles on commuting to work. Not done it before but I am guessing half that will be on asphalt. So roughly 25 miles per week on asphalt.

    Any one have experience with Kold Kutters on pavement?
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  26. #26
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    Do this math:


    Motorcycle carbides (short rally), bicycle carbides, and 3/8 cold cutters.

    Factor in the fact that cold cutters are way cheaper and there you go. If you want traction in snow/ice, and weight isn't REALLY an issue...

    They will wear on pavement, but with the weight/power applied to them vs a motorcycle, they should hold up ok.

  27. #27
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    Kold Kutter screws going in...

    Also, both those dirty tires each have a few races on them. You do need a special tool or three to stud bigger tires properly, vs a magnetic 5/16 drill socket for the Kk's. My winter fender bike tires are brand new, and will see some use this season.

  28. #28
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    I played around with some cheap tires and a few different studding options last winter. Kold Kutters' traction on ice is just... It just is, full stop. Like riding around a freshly flooded outdoor hockey rink like it's dry pavement, traction. Similar results with sheet metal screws, but likely much faster wear with those.

    The only thing I really didn't like was scraping my boots all to S#!T any time they came near the tires and some torn tights. Fortunately only snagged the material and didn't make it to flesh.

    Exercise much caution when you're riding with these. There is risk of damage/injury to yourself or anyone/anything your tire might brush up against. Just sayin'...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    When I saw this KK video last year, I knew I had to have them....AND then I saw the price, 20 bucks for a package of 250! Its a no brainer. If a few come out, just grab some more, zip em in and off you go!
    If you think that video is cool, check this one:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuwqZdgzMj0

    If he can do that, there's no amount of thrashing on a fat bike that's gonna slip us with KK's.

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    I know it's been answered quite a few times but I'm leaning towards Kold Kutters now.

    I don't have access to a grinder for taking down the tips inside. I have tubeless compatible rims & tires, but I think I'll just stick with tubes this year..

    My question is for covering the tips. Would plastidip work? How about just saying 'forget it' and pumping some stan's or slime into my tubes? How well does sealant do at 0F-20F? I doubt I'd ride in much colder.

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    Plus they sound great on ice and you get a KK sticker.

    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    I know it's been answered quite a few times but I'm leaning towards Kold Kutters now.

    I don't have access to a grinder for taking down the tips inside. I have tubeless compatible rims & tires, but I think I'll just stick with tubes this year..

    My question is for covering the tips. Would plastidip work? How about just saying 'forget it' and pumping some stan's or slime into my tubes? How well does sealant do at 0F-20F? I doubt I'd ride in much colder.
    I wouldn't trust the tubes without silicone'ing the tips.
    Build them now, use the 5200, and keep them inside until they cure. The screws will never fall out, and with the tips covered in the gnarliest silicone known to man, your tubes should be ok, as long as you do a good job covering the pointy ends up. Just don't expect them to be too light.

  33. #33
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    So here's a question:

    Most of the trails along the Denver/Front Range area get packed down pretty quickly. Then comes the warm sun and freeze/thaw cycles. The trails become a ribbon of hard packed snow with some ice. (but not skating rink)

    Would KK's on some aggresive 2.8 tires (Surly Dirt Wizard 26+ in my case) be a viable option for riding trails that have been packed by hikers?

    I don't need a full fat, but would love to be able to ride more in the winter
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  34. #34
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    I studded some tires last year. I used stainless steel #6 pan-head screws 3/8 inch long and screwed them in from the inside to the outside. Then cut a tube in half, wrapped it around the tube for inflating and aired them up. With the screw heads inside along with using the tube as a tire liner I ran all season with no problems. Traction was unbelievably good. Good enough to do stoppies on smooth black ice.
    If the screw points wear a bit, the threads themselves offer as much bite.
    My question is has anyone else used this set-up and a Kold Kutter set-up to say that the cost of the KK set-up is worth the price? It cost me 6 bucks to do what I did.

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    Worth the price? It's $20 for 250 or $50 for 1,000 Kold Kutters.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    Worth the price? It's $20 for 250 or $50 for 1,000 Kold Kutters.
    Yeah, Like Jeff said - The price is pretty much negligible. Don't let 20 bucks stand between a good solution and a bad one.

    It seems if you DIY the real problem is the method for protecting the tube. You have more work to do in a kold kutter situation because you have points-in. On the flip side, I'd imagine kold kutters offer the same or better traction per weight, but will also wear and stay in better.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodo View Post
    I studded some tires last year. I used stainless steel #6 pan-head screws 3/8 inch long and screwed them in from the inside to the outside
    That is plan B
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    That is plan B
    It would seem to me these would give some extreme traction but it would be short lived due to quick wear?

    Still would love to hear someone's experience with concrete/asphalt and Kold Kutters. Less concerned about wear and more about traction and rolling resistance.

    My snowmobiles with fully studded tracks don't do well on concrete vs rubber only tracks.
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    On sheer ice nothing I have ever ridden came close to the traction provided by kk's. They are cheap and easier to install than inside out sheet metal screws. Unfortunately, they didn't last riding on trails with mixed conditions and bare rocks. After 30 minutes of riding, I began to lose studs. Stan's could not keep up with the air loss. After two walk outs, I had to resort to tried and true 3/8 #6 sheet metal screws. I did not use 5200 so that may help.

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  40. #40
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    Alternatively, a dab of super glue on the threads of the KKs before installing makes them stick like, eh.. glue.

    Super glue is almost as effective on rubber as it is bonding fingers together while applying it, and that says alot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    Worth the price? It's $20 for 250 or $50 for 1,000 Kold Kutters.
    Gee it was 6 bucks for 1000. That's noticeable to a poor mtb'er.
    But if you want to start buying things for me so I can tell others not to be so cheap, I accept your offer.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodo View Post
    I studded some tires last year. I used stainless steel #6 pan-head screws 3/8 inch long and screwed them in from the inside to the outside. Then cut a tube in half, wrapped it around the tube for inflating and aired them up. With the screw heads inside along with using the tube as a tire liner I ran all season with no problems. Traction was unbelievably good. Good enough to do stoppies on smooth black ice.
    If the screw points wear a bit, the threads themselves offer as much bite.
    My question is has anyone else used this set-up and a Kold Kutter set-up to say that the cost of the KK set-up is worth the price? It cost me 6 bucks to do what I did.
    I agree, the best part about the sheet metal screws is the low low price! (time consuming but hey!) I just can't bring myself to spend $250 on a D5 when I can stud the Hudu's for under $10.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Alternatively, a dab of super glue on the threads of the KKs before installing makes them stick like, eh.. glue.

    Super glue is almost as effective on rubber as it is bonding fingers together while applying it, and that says alot

    Hi, Espen. Show the guys the other video. When I'm cycling in front with xl 480/380 schwalbe studs. When it's get to sharply angled for xl. And you just cycle with kk

  44. #44
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    Went to order, $21 USD for the KK screws, $34 USD for shipping. Expensive for a bag of screws, and kinda ruins the good deal vibe...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodo View Post
    I studded some tires last year. I used stainless steel #6 pan-head screws 3/8 inch long and screwed them in from the inside to the outside. Then cut a tube in half, wrapped it around the tube for inflating and aired them up. With the screw heads inside along with using the tube as a tire liner I ran all season with no problems. Traction was unbelievably good. Good enough to do stoppies on smooth black ice.
    If the screw points wear a bit, the threads themselves offer as much bite.
    My question is has anyone else used this set-up and a Kold Kutter set-up to say that the cost of the KK set-up is worth the price? It cost me 6 bucks to do what I did.
    Interesting idea with the inside out sheet metal screws. Just a few questions;

    Why sheet metal screws specifically? (Hardness? Rust Proof? Cheap?)
    Why pan-head and not flat-head if its inside out?
    How long do they last?

  45. #45
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    I3 try looking for another dealer on ebay.
    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    Went to order, $21 USD for the KK screws, $34 USD for shipping. Expensive for a bag of screws, and kinda ruins the good deal vibe...



    Interesting idea with the inside out sheet metal screws. Just a few questions;

    Why sheet metal screws specifically? (Hardness? Rust Proof? Cheap?)
    Why pan-head and not flat-head if its inside out?
    How long do they last?
    Go to the local (gasp) dirtybike shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    Went to order, $21 USD for the KK screws, $34 USD for shipping. Expensive for a bag of screws, and kinda ruins the good deal vibe...



    Interesting idea with the inside out sheet metal screws. Just a few questions;

    Why sheet metal screws specifically? (Hardness? Rust Proof? Cheap?)
    Why pan-head and not flat-head if its inside out?
    How long do they last?
    For most mtb tires 3/8 #6 work best. The round profile of pan head screws is the most gentle on tubes. Unless you are using the tires for commuting on the road the standard zinc coated screws remain effective for a long time. The big downsides are weight and the time it takes to make the tires.

    Good luck


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    I should have gotten the bag of 1000. Got 250 last year and will def. use them. Not sure what tires I'm going to put them in though. I might stud a set of BUD/LOU or try BUD/2XL for the ultimate winter traction.

    Already have 2 snowshoe 4.8's and D5's with the chinese studs. Haven't ridden the D5's but did notice the limitations of the studded snowshoes at times.

    Having a pair of each. Which one should I put up front for our bikes this winter.
    D5 or VEE Snowshoe?

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    I built studded tires using #10 half inch self drilling sheet metal screws screwed in from the inside out for my commuter. I rode them 5 days a week on roads with mixed conditions and they lasted 2 full seasons before i had to replace the center row of screws with new ones this year.
    The grip is AMAZING! . Like early post said, i too lined my inner tube with an old inner tube. ive ridden these for 2.5 season on and off road and never flatted. even when riding DH trails in mixed ice dirt snow.
    The positives are obvious. cheap and great traction. The self drilling tip is much fatter than a self tapping tip and they last much longer. ive used both.
    THe negatives is that they can be dangerous if you should contact the screws or get off the back of a bike for a steep drop/slab and get sucked under the saddle by the rear tire. (It happened to me but with out the screws.). They will rip through almost any amount of clothing and flesh in a second.
    For this reason i am going to use KOLD KUTTERS off road on my fat bike (when it arrives) and keep the sheet metal screws for commuting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw2011 View Post
    THe negatives is that they can be dangerous if you should contact the screws or get off the back of a bike for a steep drop/slab and get sucked under the saddle by the rear tire. (It happened to me but with out the screws.). They will rip through almost any amount of clothing and flesh in a second.
    For this reason i am going to use KOLD KUTTERS off road on my fat bike (when it arrives) and keep the sheet metal screws for commuting.
    Kold Kutters will shred you every bit as fast as what you're using now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Kold Kutters will shred you every bit as fast as what you're using now.
    I did wonder if that would be the case. I think I will still try koldkutter ,the heads may last longer than spikes.but also because I've riden screws on ice for many years. I also just want to try something different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw2011 View Post
    I did wonder if that would be the case. I think I will still try koldkutter ,the heads may last longer than spikes.but also because I've riden screws on ice for many years. I also just want to try something different.
    Wasn't trying to talk you out to them, just wanted you to be aware that they're every bit as dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Wasn't trying to talk you out to them, just wanted you to be aware that they're every bit as dangerous.
    I understand mate. I've been riding home made screwed winter tires for 15yrs. they realy do work well. my recipe above is the best and longest lasting I've found yet. I can ride ice just like it's dry pavement. but, I want to try something different. I'm going to order the koldkutter tomorrow.
    there is one additional advantage to the screw method that I didn't mention and that's ,....they do not pull out. I've never lost one. every two or three yrs I replace the screws and ride on.but they are sharp.
    cheers

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    would a Drexel with grinder disk work?

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