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  1. #1
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    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    Hey all;

    Well my feet are frozen when I'm riding this week...so bad I think I may have actually done something to my toes....they hurt as I'm typing this.

    But anyway, what do you guys to keep your feet warm? I need some help, I'd like to buy some real winter shoes....but they're a lot of money.

    Anyway, my set up this week was as follows:

    Liner Sock
    Smart Wool Sock
    Lizard Water Proof Sock
    Mavic MTB Shoes
    Louis Garneau Extreme Shoe Covers


    So what are you guys using, are there products out there that I may not have heard about?

    I've seen the 45NRTH shoes and they're something, but they're sold out in my size (45)

    But anyway, I'm looking for solutions, I'm really liking my Fatty, but man when it really becomes winter I'm in trouble if I don't solve this foot issue.
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  2. #2
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    This may sound counter-intuitive, but have you considered stuffing less stuff in your shoes?

    Here's the thing- insulation (like a wool sock) only works if it's got loft. If you squeeze the wool sock with 2 extra layers, what you end up with is sweaty feet and no loft, which leads to froze toes.

    Just a thought. try losing a couple layers of sock. ditch the liners and the waterproof thing, wear the shoes and the covers. Try that. Worst that happens is it's no better than before.

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    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    I think your layers should keep your feet warm. But it seems like they might be in the wrong order. I would suggest wearing the waterproof sock - the vapour barrier - over the liner sock, then the smartwool insulating sock overtop. This way your insulation stays dry.

    If your shoes are tight with all these layers that also can be a problem. I use a Pearl Izumi x-alp that are a few sizes to big. I find the eva foam in the sole is a real bonus over my summer carbon soled shoes.

    Hope this helps!

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    Temperatures you're riding in? Need that data. EDIT: As in, Vermont cold and Alaska cold are *way* different.

    I found that trying to get a MTB shoe to work in the winter by adding this and that to it didn't really work.

    I bike in "light" winter boots on flat pedals.

    As dcrowe and buckfiddious pointed out, too much pressure means insulation that isn't insulating and veins that are constricted.
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    Re: Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    Shimano mw81 are cheaper than wolvehammers and have been great for me.

    I bought them two sizes too big. You do not want to squeeze your foot. You need room as the others are are saying for the insulation to work.
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  6. #6
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    This if real cold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    This may sound counter-intuitive, but have you considered stuffing less stuff in your shoes?

    Here's the thing- insulation (like a wool sock) only works if it's got loft. If you squeeze the wool sock with 2 extra layers, what you end up with is sweaty feet and no loft, which leads to froze toes.

    Just a thought. try losing a couple layers of sock. ditch the liners and the waterproof thing, wear the shoes and the covers. Try that. Worst that happens is it's no better than before.
    Good advice. Also, I switch to platform pedals in the winter, as Keen Brixen boots seem to be the only footwear that keep my feet warm. I've tried on the 45NRTH boots, and they honestly did appear to be very warm.

  8. #8
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    Mavic MTB shoes? I don't care how many socks or over-boots you use, they are going to suck the heat right out the bottom of your foot. That's the main problem.

    Old-school tricks include plastic baggies around your feet in the shoes. That can help for a while if you aren't going out on 3hr+ rides.

    So barring "real winter mtb shoes", get flats and regular snowboots/hiking boots. In some cases this is better than any spd winter boot, in others it's not quite as good for efficiency. I'm experimenting with heated insoles right now (in -10°F temps), but that's inside a winter boot with thick wool socks.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #9
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    Also, keep your legs and ankles warm. I agree that stuffing the shoes tight is a bad idea. But keeping the full length of your legs warm as they enter the shoe will also pay dividends. It certainly works for the hands as well. Keep in mind that standing on frozen ground with thin soled shoes will fast track you to frozen toes. If you anticipate standing on cold earth for a while, thicker soles will help.
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    Re: Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    Sorel Blizzards: $50. Waterproof all the way up, and warm.


    Kona Wah Wah: $75 (Or any decent platform pedal)


    Total: $125. About half of what a pair of 45NRTH Wallethïnners cost. No crummy zippers to worry about, and the boots can also be used while not riding a bike. Amazing, right?

    That's my winter setup for the last 2+ years. Works well, and feet stay warm and dry.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak View Post
    Keep in mind that standing on frozen ground with thin soled shoes will fast track you to frozen toes. If you anticipate standing on cold earth for a while, thicker soles will help.
    I'd rather stand on frozen ground than be clipped into my bike or on cold metal flat pedals most of the time. Metal transmits heat oh-so effectively, much better than snow or dirt, and of course the pedal is connected to the crankarm, which is connected to the bottom bracket, which all makes for one hell of an impressive heat sink. Unless you have 1" aerogel soles in between your foot and the cleat, it's damn hard to stop that conduction. Even the rubber on the outside of the sole will transmit heat, but not as effectively as the metal of course. I may have found the solution for my riding, but there are always different possibilities that might work. Given how effective pogies and carbon bars are, I have to think that carbon cranks + carbon pedals (ones that maximize the carbon platform and minimize metal contact) might also be pretty effective, although expensive. Again, it's about stopping the transmission of heat somehow, because that cleat just can't be 10mm from the bottom of your foot, it's going to suck all the heat out of your foot much too easily. The guy suggesting the sorels and flat pedals is on track too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #12
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    Sorel Alpha Pac boot. Light weight and warm.

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    Fyxation Mesa pedal. Nylon, low profile, durable, warm(er than aluminum).

    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget-fyxation_pedal2.jpg

    Edit: This should be considerably warmer than what you are currently using.

  13. #13
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    +1 on platform pedal..first thing to change..the rest will follow. I have lots of winter boots, (SE Alaska) all work with platform pedals, new this winter is a pair of Keens, light not to bulky.

    Hey it s below 0 F in Anchorage..whats up :-)

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    This will sound weird, but after 30+ years of ski/snowboard instruction and ski patrolling, I've learned that sweaty feet quickly leads to cold feet. Whenever it's below freezing, I spray antiperspirant on my feet and in between my toes, make sure it fully dries, and then put on one pair a clean wool socks. If it's really cold (teens or below), I will also put a pinch of black pepper in the toe of my socks- it irritates the skin just slightly enough to increase blood flow to my toes. As the others have said, a pair of large flat pedals and a decent winter boot that has some toe wiggle room in it and you should be much more comfortable.

  15. #15
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    I rode regular summer shoes for many winters, with admittedly mixed results. I tried everything - I got Lakes 303's last year and it is a much better solution, though you do pay for it.

    My best results with the summer shoes was to put a piece of hardwood (felt-like) floor insulation underneath the foot bed to isolate my foot from the cleat, duct tape over the mesh, then put on a neoprene cover. This got me through many winter rides, but I was never really warm.

    I tried the toe warmers, but I found them to be inconsistent, sometimes they were burning a hole in my foot, other times I couldn't feel them at all.

  16. #16
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    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    . If it's really cold (teens or below), I will also put a pinch of black pepper in the toe of my socks- it irritates the skin just slightly enough to increase blood flow to my toes. .
    That's awesome. I'm trying it.



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  17. #17
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    I picked up a pair of Merrell Thermo 6 Waterproof boots 2 weeks ago and so far have kept my feet rather warm and dry and they weren't too expensive either. Work great with platform pedals as well.

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    My bet is that you need a size larger shoe. All the layers in the world will not keep feet warm if their is no blood flow.

  19. #19
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    I have been reading these cold weather threads while waiting for my fatbike. I hate cold feet and went looking for something for extreme cold weather footwear and came across the ones in the link below. Found them and many more on a winter boot website.

    WinterFootwear.com - Korkers IceJack Boa Men's Winter Boots

    Bob

  20. #20
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    Maybe I'll get flamed BUT if so much heat is being lost through the soles of your shoe would it be accurate to say the snow melts right off the bottom of them? I (with admittedly little real cold biking experience) have never seen the snow just falling off the bottom of my shoe. You guys have way more experience than myself but I just don't see it. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the metal platform heat sink.

  21. #21
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    Hey guys, thanks for all the responses....I'm riding again today, it's about 20 degrees F outside. I know that's not crazy cold, but my feet just get really cold, really fast.

    I think after taking everyone's advice into consideration that I'm going to go platforms with winter boots. I love clipping in I just feel more intune with the bike, but, it's winter right!? I need to survive first or there will be no riding and that's just not acceptable.

    However for today I'm going to try less layering, and one of those toe jammer warmer things.

    I was so miserable last night I almost bought those Cabela's Heated Socks, (They were on Sale for 100 bucks last night)
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  22. #22
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    flats and boots are where it's at for me. being able to slightly shift your feet after a while does wonders to keep the blood flowing everywhere,,, and of course admit it ,, you will be off your bike for some point of time... so the info about cleats readily transferring the cold to the bottom of your feet while standing around or clipped in,, I have found is absolutely true.

    you don't even have to get too expensive on the boot, a lot of good ideas and thoughts in this thread..

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    Do you have a time between getting dressed and riding? Like driving to the starting point. I learned this trick while snow skiing, and i use it for all activities during the cold months. Last thing i do before leaving the car, change my socks to a clean pair. They are dry and my feet never get cold during riding, hiking, skiing, etc.

  24. #24
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    I use platforms on both by bikes - LHT and Pugs - and in the winter I have a cheap pair of insulated teva boots. Work great and my feet are always toasty. Mind you that my commute is only 5 miles. I found that mtb shoes with neoprene covers just didn't do the job. And I hate using clip in pedals.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in Ozark View Post
    Maybe I'll get flamed BUT if so much heat is being lost through the soles of your shoe would it be accurate to say the snow melts right off the bottom of them? I (with admittedly little real cold biking experience) have never seen the snow just falling off the bottom of my shoe. You guys have way more experience than myself but I just don't see it. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the metal platform heat sink.
    It's not like a burner on your stove, the cold spot in your shoe doesn't generate heat, it causes a cold spot in your show that the heat of your foot is sucked up by. I've found this in every clip less shoe I've tried, so like many other on this thread, I ride in standard shoes, and flat pedals. I have three pairs of shoes I use depending on how cold it is. Around 30 I'm using a goretex trail runner, below 30 I goto a goretex lightweight hiker, and if it's much colder, I get on my Telemark boots and go skiing because i find the wind chill on a bike too much to bear, and skiing is slower, and warmer.

  26. #26
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    Do you notice a significant difference in Nylon v aluminum platforms?

    EDIT: I apologize to the OP for veering off topic- it looks like there is a fresh thread with this theme.

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    Wellgo MG-1's have great grip for a very inexpensive pedal, around $45 on eBay. I splurge and get the Ti version for $80, 280 grams, and then run the pins really long so they grab my winter boots. I've got some Merrill's with Thinsulate that are waterproof, and I bought them 1.5 sizes larger than my sneakers. A good pair of wool ski socks and Seal Skins socks (in case I get snow in the boot, they're waterproof and warm) and I'm good for the Northeast. Disclaimer: average ride is 1.5 - 4 hours max. The longer rides are during the day, so usually have sun. If it goes to single digits, we eat and drink instead of ride!

    I've never used the heat packs, but I have them in the pack just in case, always have them for snowboarding. And like xr5 said above, don't wear your riding socks in the car to the ride. It's imperative that your feet are dry before you start, so don't crank the heater in the car, your feet will be sweaty and you'll be screwed.

    Keen makes great boots too, look at the Revel II. The hiking boots with insulation have a softer rubber bottom, grip the pedals better than my big snow boots that I use for snow blowing the driveway. Those kind of boots get too clumbsy, on a bike in my opinion.

  28. #28
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    Hello I ride in winter using first layer is mens silk hose, second layer is thin wool sock third layer is Under Armour winter sock Under Armour Men's ColdGear Tactical Boot Socks | eBay
    Lined waterproof Totes. Keep your feet dry!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in Ozark View Post
    the snow melts right off the bottom of them?
    That's rather dramatic. You don't need to melt snow to show that you are loosing heat. When I used to ice fish standing on a thin piece of carpet instead of the snow or ice made a substantial difference in overall warmth. So yes, even a little bit of aluminum or steel on or touching your shoe or boot will make a difference.

    OP: Before I switched to flats I also thought the switch would take away the connectedness I felt with the bike and that they'd be way less efficient. I was presently surprised that this was not the case. Comfort over performance in winter, yes, and you don't actually loose much. Win win.

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    Dave in Ozark - I'll try to answer both of your questions.

    1. As far as heat being sucked out of the shoe, it doesn't get removed through the sole of of the shoe, it gets pulled out through the cleat. As was previously stated, with a metal cleat hooked into a metal clipless pedal attached to a metal crank to BB to a metal frame... the heat loss due to clipless pedals is amazingly fast. As others have said, a nylon flat pedal (I use Fyxation) and a good winter multi-sport boot go a LONG ways towards negating this. Me personally, I won't take clipless pedals and regular MTB shoes much below 25, even with shoe covers and thick socks.

    2. Yes, at least to me, there is a significant difference between nylon and aluminum pedals, but not near as much as there is between nylon and steel or titanium.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by vack View Post
    I'd like to buy some real winter shoes....but they're a lot of money.
    You know what costs more than winter shoes? Frostbite care and the long term effects of lack of exercise.

    I don't believe there's a magic cure that will fix cold toes, as everyone's body is a bit different, as is tolerance their to cold.

    I wear 1 layer of merino wool socks from Costco, Keen Brixen boots, and Fyxation Mesa pedals. This cheap set up works great for me well below zero. The boot/sock combo also works when I'm shoveling the driveway or going sledding with my kids too. A good winter cycling shoe solution doesn't have to cost much, nor does it need to be cycling specific.
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    I've got a solution for ya... harden the f**k up!
    Ronnie Johns - Chopper - Harden the **** Up - YouTube
    Just kidding. Shoes with more wiggle room for your toes is the key.

  33. #33
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    Polartec fleece socks can extend the regular SPD shoe season-down to about 15-20 degrees F. Feet sweat more but stay fairly warm. Added benefit of SPDs is they allow toe spikes like SIDI's 3/4" long ones which are indispensable on ice. Now I have Lake hi-top SPD winter boots but may need to go taller with flats for deeper snow. Once snow gets inside any shoe comfort is difficult.

  34. #34
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    Right on Buck;

    Can't rep you more, but you nailed it straight away. Room for the dogs to run! Summer shoes don't work no matter what. Traditional winter shoes (Answer, Shimano, Lake even) don't even really do it. Real winter boots. I've bought a pair of Keen Brixens mentioned in other numerous threads here, and despite the common gripe of the entry of your foot into them, they are very warm and comfortable, on or OFF the bike. Any comparable competent shoe would work.

    If you need to be ultra cheap, a pair of WalMart pack boots and some stripped stirrup pedals will work just fine. I actually dug a pair of those out of the junk box, stripped off the straps, and they amazed me with how well they work. I can't use pin pedals as they grip TOO much and I spend all my time trying to hop my feet into the right place. The cheap stamped steel frames of the strap jobs give just the right amount of grip/slip.

    One thing that I have found that works to warm my fingers and toes is stopping! If you're shoes are marginal, simple pedal pressure will force the blood out of your feet. When you stop, it is not very long before your core organs require less blood than your still pulsing heart provides, and so this allows more blood flow to reach your extremities. My hands and feet start cold, but after some decent efforts and a couple of rest stops, I can take my gloves OFF or switch to my light weight ones I always carry.

    Stopping and standing in the snow will however highlight for you clearly how heat soaks out of the hard MTB shoe soles. You can feel it on the bottoms of your feet. If you buy normal cold weather MTB shoes, get them big enough to put some decent footbeds in to create a boundary layer between that cold plastic and your feet. Real winter boots will have that built in, of course. You'll also tire of knocking the ice out of your cleats/pedals all the time if you spend a lot of time walking around like I do. I'm told that Wolvehammers and Mallets are a great combo in this regard, but I'm not convinced. I spend a lot more time walking around than he does!
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  35. #35
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    I'm also putting my lakes in a pan on the stove at low heat before heading out, gets them kinda nice and toasty, especially riding from my house.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  36. #36
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    Flat pedals and winter boots is a good fix. If you "can't" ride flats, then you just need to invest in winter shoes and Lake/45nrth is the way to go. I got the wölvhammers and they are quite frickin excellent. After +20 years of riding and this year I've had two mind blowing experiences, narrow wide chainrings that magically keep the chain on and first clipped in ride in cold where my feet didn't freeze.

  37. #37
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    Grabber Toe Warmers. Posted/pic in above post.

    Trick is to put them on top of your foot. Underfoot feels too uncomfortable. Stick them over the tops of the toes angled so that a line drawn down the center of the heater points roughly between the third and fourth toes.

    All the other tips above are great too.

    I have cold feet and with Specialized Defroster and the toe Warmers I'm good unless very cold. The Spec winter shoe is cheap, light weight, and something I actually ride much of the Fall and Spring here in the wet NE. They are waterproof and a wet foot in 50 degree weather is like a dry one in 20. I probably ride this shoe as much, if not more, than my regular mtb shoe.

    All my shoes that have mesh get the Plasti-dip treatment to keep out water. Sidi all Lorica are great.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by vack View Post
    Hey all;
    ...So what are you guys using, are there products out there that I may not have heard about?...
    Lots of good advice here, but there's a product that hasn't been mentioned that makes a huge difference.

    Fenders - big ugly ones. Especially when the conditions tend to wet or slushy. All the spray and powder that gets chucked onto your legs sucks up some of your body heat so if you can stop that, your feet will have a better chance of staying warm.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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    So an update about today's ride. Ride time Temp 25 Degrees F.

    So I read through all the posts here, and I have to thank you guys, I combined a few ideas or suggestions that I could pull off with what I had with me.

    I rode with:
    Dressing my Core and Head warmer
    Smart Wool Socks
    Foot and Toe Warmers, (Opened about 30 Min before pedal time)
    My regular shoes
    Shoe Covers

    First off the foot warmers worked much better today, because they were opened previous to my ride, for the first hour I'd even say my feet were warm. Also dumping the multiple layers of socks, helped with comfort and room in my shoe, and I think kept the foot warmers working as well. Dressing warmer overall really helped too, my head was noticeably warmer, and I felt good all day.

    I think I'm still going to get the platforms and wear boots when the deep snow hits, but for the other parts of winter where snow is low and it's just bitter cold, because I like to ride clipped in so much (Just more confident that way) I'll start looking for a winter cycling boot, Ala Lake, 45NRTH, Northwave, etc.

    But in ending, I have to really thank you guys so much for the suggestions. I come here to read about other folks ideas and thoughts on stuff I love to do, (Riding Bikes) You guys really came through, and my feet and I thank you.

    Thanks Again!!
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    When you eat red pepper, its active ingredient, capsaicin, increases the circulation in your toes and fingers. When you put cayenne (or red pepper spices) into your shoes or socks, you’re doing the same thing… topically. For some people, the warming sensation happens immediately, for others, the heat gradually increases over time. (It also depends on how much you use.)
    Cayenne causes the blood vessels under the skin of the feet to dilate, thus stimulating extra blood flow and providing warmth to the feet.

  41. #41
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    These electric socks have changed my wife's winter bike season. She absolutely loves them:

    Thunderbolt Heated Electric Socks

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by puchcobra View Post
    When you eat red pepper, its active ingredient, capsaicin, increases the circulation in your toes and fingers. When you put cayenne (or red pepper spices) into your shoes or socks, you’re doing the same thing… topically. For some people, the warming sensation happens immediately, for others, the heat gradually increases over time. (It also depends on how much you use.)
    Cayenne causes the blood vessels under the skin of the feet to dilate, thus stimulating extra blood flow and providing warmth to the feet.
    Ha, that jogs a memory... My only 5k run under 18 minutes was accomplished after taking a capsaicin pill. I thought I was going to die at the start line, which made the rest not so bad. I have never had such clear nostrils so I guess it did the job.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    It's not like a burner on your stove, the cold spot in your shoe doesn't generate heat, it causes a cold spot in your show that the heat of your foot is sucked up by. I've found this in every clip less shoe I've tried, so like many other on this thread, I ride in standard shoes, and flat pedals. I have three pairs of shoes I use depending on how cold it is. Around 30 I'm using a goretex trail runner, below 30 I goto a goretex lightweight hiker, and if it's much colder, I get on my Telemark boots and go skiing because i find the wind chill on a bike too much to bear, and skiing is slower, and warmer.
    All it did for me was make the cleat and sole cake with snow, waxing helped but only aerogel insoles (which do exist) would have fixed it.
    I too switched to flats, double bearcage style for me with felt -20c thermal insoles in lightweight Kodiak boots.

  44. #44
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    I have had decent luck with lake boots, good wool socks, and the chemical insoles and toe warmers.

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    I haven't seen anyone mention this option so I'll throw it out there. Someone mentioned a vapor barrier and another poster mentioned the need to keep your feet dry. I'm a big believer in this type of system. If you can keep your insulation (socks, boots, insoles) dry you can really improve your chances of staying warm.

    There are many types of vapor barriers you can use but I prefer neoprene socks and the best ones I've found are fleece-lined so they have a thin wicking layer on the inside. I bought mine from Gator and when it comes to keeping warm they're the most important piece of gear I own. I use them in my Tele boots and my bike shoes as well.

    The thin foam layer in the neoprene has a much greater insulation value than any wool sock and has the bonus of being waterproof. I buy my boots big enough that I can layer a sock over the Gators.

    If you don't know how vapor barriers work and you have cold feet you should check it out. You can test the theory with a simple setup. Liner sock, then thin plastic grocery bag, then wool sock. Make sure the socks aren't so snug as to cutoff circulation. You should see a big gain warmth over a non VB system.

    I would estimate at least a 20+ degree improvement in warmth with my gator socks over a standard sock system. Hope that helps.

  46. #46
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    I wear gore tex hiking boots with a wool hiking sock. Nice and toasty
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    I wear gore tex hiking boots with a wool hiking sock. Nice and toasty
    $20 nashbar platforms and these from Sierra trading post: Teva Raith Storm Mid Hiking Boots - Waterproof, Insulated (For Men).

  48. #48
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    Saw your user name and thought of the tragically hip song

    Quote Originally Posted by 50 mission cap View Post
    $20 nashbar platforms and these from Sierra trading post: Teva Raith Storm Mid Hiking Boots - Waterproof, Insulated (For Men).

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    Dad hips!!!

  50. #50
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    This might be the stupidest idea in the thread, or it might be a good one, I only recently moved to New York, and this is my first year riding in freezing temperatures.

    I bought wool socks, but I also wrapped by wool socks with a layer of cellophane wrap before putting my shoes on. My thought process was I wanted to isolate the hot air inside the sock. Maybe it's a horrible idea, and maybe it's just the wool socks that made things better, but there's a low priced idea for you that I'm going to stick/fiddle with as long as it seems to work.

  51. #51
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    Also note about Smartwool socks, I love them, wear them, but they are notorious for wearing out the wool under your feet. Look close at the bottoms of your feet after you put them on and take note of the density of the wool under your foot. I have a drawer full of great looking smart wools that are totally worn out under foot after a year of use. All of them look like nylon pantyhose under foot after the wool is worn out, which ruins the insulation ability of these expensive woollies.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    Also note about Smartwool socks, I love them, wear them, but they are notorious for wearing out the wool under your feet.
    A guy I ride with swears by Darn Tough socks, which have some kind of lifetime guarantee. I just bought my first wool socks a few weeks ago, but if wearing them out proves to be an issue, I'd give those a try.

  53. #53
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    I used to wear a wicking sock and a smartwool sock under my regular cycling shoes with toe warmers. It was a crapshoot how long I'd be able to stay out before my toes started getting cold. I finally bit the bullet and bought Lake 303's.
    Now, I wear one pair of socks and my feet aren't even an issue.
    I like turtles

  54. #54
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    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    I use Shimano MW 81 shoes (http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbik...ing-revelation)
    with SPD pedals in the coldest temps.

    Order them a size large so you can wear one good set of wool socks (1 pair) and still have some room. If you wear multiple socks, you are more likely to restrict circulation, which results in cold feet. Don't over tighten your shoes. Maintaining blood flow really is the key to keeping your feet warm.

    I'm not a fan of plastic wrap or neoprene because these types of barriers do not breathe, and your feet are likely to get clammy and then cold. Neoprene wetsuits actually work by retaining a layer of water next to your skin, which gets warmed by your body. But you don't use neoprene for diving in cold water, and even super-cooled water doesn't get far below freezing temperatures. There are far better materials than neoprene available these days. You are better off with a good, insulated gore-tex winter shoe and a wool sock (wool insulates even when damp).

    If your feet sweat a lot, you may try spraying your feet with a powdered antiperspirant such as Arrid Extra Dry. This is a trick that works with downhill ski boots and it really can help with winter bike shoes too.

    Wear an insulated helmet liner. If your head gets cold, your body slows blood flow to your extremities.

    If you still get cold. Get off your bike from time to time and run.

    Posted from my iPad using Tapatalk HD.

  55. #55
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    Sorry if this has already been recommended, but I find these add about 10 degrees of comfortable riding:

    Name:  Boot Glove.jpg
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    I wear them over my Wolvenhammers but they should work over other types of boot. I got them at REI.
    --Peace

  56. #56
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    I use Irish Setter boots the version with 2000 grams of Thinsulate ... $199 (Can). On Wellgo platforms ... cheap.

    Really warm!

    The boots need to be roomy - to allow a bit of air trapped inside. And don't go with multiple pairs of socks ... just one pair of Smartwool (Merino wool socks).

  57. #57
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    The heated insoles seem to be doing their job. Trick seems to be to turn them on medium heat before you start. Did some commuting this afternoon and it was 4 degrees F, possibly a little less as the sun went down, just wore thin normal socks under my lakes, toes stayed nice and warm, in fact I didn't really think about them at all, which is what I want. I rode for 45 min, then chilled for an hour in the coffee shop, then turned them back on for the ride home. I haven't tested how long they actually work, although I did the 2.5hr ride a few nights ago down to -15ish. I didn't get a full charge for them for that ride though, so not a good test. What seems to be gone is the "im gunna die because I can't feel my feet" thing.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  58. #58
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    That's a pretty glowing review. I noticed these insoles were on sale at Gander Mountain, $99 after mail in rebate.
    Jason
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  59. #59
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    These...

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    or these...

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    or any tennis/sneaker/running shoe with these...

    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget-exsg-2.jpg

    only the latter is waterproof. Go breathable. It's the key to warmth in cold weather.

  60. #60
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    LaCrosse Boot Insoles - Wool Felt - 6mm - Insulation - Cushioning - 902001

    A friend who spends his winter ice fishing sold me on these...super cheap and effective. They're also available in 9mm if your shoes will fit them. I'm using them in 5.10 urban enforcers ( $55 at bluesky) on wellgo flats. It was 8 deg when I started my ride Saturday and I was plenty comfy.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    LaCrosse Boot Insoles - Wool Felt - 6mm - Insulation - Cushioning - 902001

    A friend who spends his winter ice fishing sold me on these...super cheap and effective. They're also available in 9mm if your shoes will fit them. I'm using them in 5.10 urban enforcers ( $55 at bluesky) on wellgo flats. It was 8 deg when I started my ride Saturday and I was plenty comfy.
    8 F or 8 C?
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  62. #62
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    Given where MojoK lives and plays, its 8 F.

  63. #63
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    I electrical taped a hand warmer above toe vent on outside of mavic shoes but under a winter shoe cover and it did the trick nicely. Had plenty of room in my toe box and heat coming in the vented section and being kept in by over shoe.

  64. #64
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    8 F... NEK Vermont.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  65. #65
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    I had serious problems with my feet in the winter. I think it's because I have long toes. I ride platform and wear a pair of lobbens inside a pair of Neos winter overboots. I don't have problems anymore... even riding below zero here in AK.

  66. #66
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    If you're referring to my post regarding using a vapor barrier you might want to check it out. One would think your feet would wet and stay wet but that's not actually the case.

    I'm not totally sure on the science but my understanding is that once the body senses a certain humidity level the sweating stops. That's certainly been my experience. When I wear the neoprene socks they're just slightly damp at the end of a ride. I've found the fleece lined versions have a drier feeling so that's my preference.

    Anyhow, there's a lot of good case history on the benefits of vapor barrier systems. Soldiers in the Korean War used boots that were rubber inside and out with a wool felt layer trapped between. No moisture was escaping there but they kept the soldiers warm.

    Try it out before you dismiss it so quickly.


    QUOTE=djg21;10847280]I use Shimano MW 81 shoes (Shimano MW81 Winter Mountain Bike Boot Tested | Bicycling Magazine)
    with SPD pedals in the coldest temps.

    Order them a size large so you can wear one good set of wool socks (1 pair) and still have some room. If you wear multiple socks, you are more likely to restrict circulation, which results in cold feet. Don't over tighten your shoes. Maintaining blood flow really is the key to keeping your feet warm.

    I'm not a fan of plastic wrap or neoprene because these types of barriers do not breathe, and your feet are likely to get clammy and then cold. Neoprene wetsuits actually work by retaining a layer of water next to your skin, which gets warmed by your body. But you don't use neoprene for diving in cold water, and even super-cooled water doesn't get far below freezing temperatures. There are far better materials than neoprene available these days. You are better off with a good, insulated gore-tex winter shoe and a wool sock (wool insulates even when damp).

    If your feet sweat a lot, you may try spraying your feet with a powdered antiperspirant such as Arrid Extra Dry. This is a trick that works with downhill ski boots and it really can help with winter bike shoes too.

    Wear an insulated helmet liner. If your head gets cold, your body slows blood flow to your extremities.

    If you still get cold. Get off your bike from time to time and run.

    Posted from my iPad using Tapatalk HD.[/QUOTE]

  67. #67
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    What this guy said.


    FAT-BIKE.COM

    Warm Feet are Happy Feet – by Mike Curiak

    by Gomez on May 11, 2012 in Footwear

    Since I was a kid I’ve ridden year-round. Living in MI, MN, and the mountains of Colorado, I’ve had more than my fair share of cold feet through the decades. It wasn’t until I started riding and racing in Alaska that I finally got tired of it and decided to do something proactive to prevent permanent damage. Most folks in AK give up their clipless pedals in the wintertime. I can’t pretend to explain such an irrational act using my limited grasp of the English language, so I’ll leave it to them to try to confabulate a worthy reason. I start with a very, very thin liner sock.



    I’ve used wool, polypro, silk, and many blends. All work about the same–they move the moisture away from your feet as best they can. All of them stink after just a few uses. As long as you avoid cotton, you’re on the right track.

    Next I use a vapor barrier liner. Some folks use something like a Subway sandwich bag, which works fine right up until your toes poke a hole through it. The point of the VBL is to keep the sweat produced by your foot from soaking and degrading your insulation. Once your insulation is wet, your feet are cold. Period. I’ve used the high dollar Black Diamond VBL’s on a few trips, and while they’re durable and good at keeping the moisture where it’s supposed to be, they have many seams that always succeed at rubbing holes and sores into my feet after about day 4. So now I use a thin plastic ‘boot’ that I got from a bootfitter at the local ski shop.
    It’s meant to be used when getting custom foam liners fit to your fancy alpine ski boots, but I think I’m giving it a far more dignified life in protecting my insulation from my stinky feet.

    Next is the insulation. I use a Sorel felt liner sized ~1/2 size too big for my feet.One of the big ‘secrets’ to keeping feet warm in winter is giving them room to breathe, which means enough space that you can wiggle your toes easily. What this does is to guarantee that blood is circulating freely. All the insulation in the world is useless if it’s clamped too tightly around your foot. The insulation doesn’t *produce* any heat–it merely keeps what heat you have available from escaping. So that blood supply is critical because it’s the blood that’s keeping your feet warm. Nothing else–just the blood.

    The Sorel felt liner I use is 12mm thick. If you’re a savvy shopper you can find thicknesses from 5mm on up to suit your local temps and needs.

    I’ve got some seriously screwed up ankles from a lifetime of football, basketball, and hockey mishaps, so I need to use a custom orthotic inside of the felt liners. YMMV here. Underneath the orthotic I glued a piece of reflective foam (from a car windshield sunshade)to ‘reflect’ any heat that makes it’s way down back up at me. I doubt it does anything other than satiate my need to know that I at least tried to cover all bases. On top of the orthotic I glued a piece of felt. Very comfy and never cold to the touch.

    The outermost layer I use is the Lake MXZ-302 winter cycling shoe. At roughly $270 per pair they are what most folks would consider hideously expensive. I guess it’s just a matter of perspective. Having known too many folks with frost damaged feet over the years, I think my toes are worth a few extra dollars. Besides–I wear them 4-5 days a week for three months of every winter, then for roughly three weeks straight when I’m in AK, and I usually get two to three seasons out of a pair.Money well spent, methinks.

    The key to this system is sizing the felt liner to your feet, and the outer shoe to fit the felt liner. For reference, I have a size 8.5 foot. I buy a size 9 felt liner, and a size 15 (!) outer shoe. If your feet are bigger than about a size 10, this system will probably not work for you, simply because the outer shoes only go up to size 15 from most manufacturers.

    I make a few mods to these to increase traction on iceand to keep overflow from getting in when I have no choice but to dunk my feet at -40 degrees.

    This system has evolved slowly over the last decade. If you ride in the lower 48 for less than two hours at a stretch it is overkill for you: For that purpose a pair of the Lake shoes sized 1 to 1.5 sizes too big, with a mid-weight wool sock and a VBL should be plenty. If you ride in the northern US or anywhere in Canada, Alaska, or Northern Europe, my system might be worth further investigation and some fiddling. I’ve used this setup comfortably down to -65 degrees, and am confident in them to much colder than that. Truthfully, should I ever meet my maker on a winter trip, I think my feet will be the last part of me to freeze. This system really is that good.

    Happy winter riding.

    MC

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    Last edited by Johanneson; 12-02-2013 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Credit to Gomez

  68. #68
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    I would echo the general consensus on the thread. Feet need to be dry and lofty to be warm; have room enough to not be squeezed tight with whatever sock combination you're using. I have been using my gtx hiking boots in the below freezing temps and wet weather. I plan on using my Solomon Snowcats on the fat bike. They are light and warm. Those have been good below 0.F for me. Both on flat pedals obviously. Both waterproof and pretty breathable. I've looked at a lot of the other options as well, and have tried my summer shoes with all the layers (even plastic bags) and shoe covers etc, but have never had as much comfort and success with those, as I do in just good boots on flats. Also I find that I don't really need clipless in winter commuting simply because I don't have to ride that far. I know they are way nicer when weather is good, but I don't want to compromise comfort either. On the fat bike I don't see myself going as fast and aggressive as I would in normal xc riding so I think boots are going to be the ticket there, especially for all the stopping and dismounting. This is my conclusion from what I've read at least. I'd love to try some 45nrth boots too, but from a money perspective, its simply not an option for me as a poor college student. I already have good hiking and snow boots, so makes most sense to just use what I've got. It works great too. Hope you find a solution as cold anything when biking is miserable, especially feet or hands. Good luck!

  69. #69
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    Costco wool socks,

    45nrth Wolvhammer Boots

    Crank Brother's cleats

    I'm wearing the boots 3 sizes large, with an extra insole under the "factory" one. I ponied up for the spendy boots because mine too get extra cold, extra fast.

    No problems all the way down to -5 degrees for 1.5 hours +

  70. #70
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    I always had big problems with frozen toes. Even in Keen Revels with decent socks. I've come to the conclusion that they are just too snug. It's hard to get boots to fit wide feet off the shelf. I even got a size bigger than I need.

    But as what has been mentioned, a vapor barrier worked the best. Thin liner (Polypro) socks with a plastic grocery bag, then wool. This worked much better and longer than any other version, but alas was a bit too tight and still eventually resulted in cold toes even in moderate temps. I think I'll go find some cheap well oversized boots this time around and keep the keens for everyday winter wear. I love them with everyday socks and just wearing around, but they aren't roomy enough to layer socks for extended outdoors use.

    So yeah, as everyone says, ROOM, and then more room. I also need to switch back to my plastic Fyxations, been running DMR Vaults still into the teens and it isn't helping
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  71. #71
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    flat pedals and neos over boots. I have worn just the water proof ones with no insulation only combat boots and wool socks in -50c and they where warm as long as you keep moving ie. riding. I would say they are worth their weight in gold but they are light as well.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by djg21 View Post
    If your feet sweat a lot, you may try spraying your feet with a powdered antiperspirant such as Arrid Extra Dry. This is a trick that works with downhill ski boots and it really can help with winter bike shoes too.

    Posted from my iPad using Tapatalk HD.
    I know of snowmobilers that swear by this stuff. Tite-Grip Grip Control Formula. It was featured in an article in a snowmobile mag recently because it works so well to keep feet and hands dry - and therefore warm.

    If you check out the link, don't be put off by the way the site looks - the product is evidently very well suited to the needs of pole dancers...

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastR View Post
    I know of snowmobilers that swear by this stuff. Tite-Grip Grip Control Formula. It was featured in an article in a snowmobile mag recently because it works so well to keep feet and hands dry - and therefore warm.

    If you check out the link, don't be put off by the way the site looks - the product is evidently very well suited to the needs of pole dancers...
    Possibly NSFW-ish, but your link and some forums yielded a similar product, some dancers thinks it works better, and has no parabens in it.

    Dirty Girl POLEtice (NSFW?)
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBlackHatter View Post
    flat pedals and neos over boots. I have worn just the water proof ones with no insulation only combat boots and wool socks in -50c and they where warm as long as you keep moving ie. riding. I would say they are worth their weight in gold but they are light as well.
    thats what i use also, I followed the recommendation of my brother in lawe who's a musher...
    sometimes i simply put a pair of merrel ventilator sneakers inside of the Neos, for the warmer days...the very cold days i use my hiking boots inside.
    never ever got cold
    expensive cars are a waste of money. Expensive bikes...not so much!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post
    A guy I ride with swears by Darn Tough socks, which have some kind of lifetime guarantee. I just bought my first wool socks a few weeks ago, but if wearing them out proves to be an issue, I'd give those a try.
    +1 on darn socks. only thing i need ,along with a good winter hiking boot. they do have an unconditional lifetime warranty. they are the only socks i wear all year long, different styles and weights obviously
    Darn Tough Socks: Hiking, Hunting, Fishing Socks & More | SocksAddict.com

  76. #76
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    Keen insulated boots are very popular with a lot of winter riders. Cabelas currently has the Summit County II on sale for $80. This is the outgoing style as they are being replaced by version 3. Not sure how they differ from the new ones but I have a pair on the way to try. Keen™ Summit County II Pac Boots : Cabela's

  77. #77
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    I live in Colorado where it's currently pretty cold (6 this morning), but not like you folks in AK or the NE Kingdom or any of that. I haven't tried the Darn socks, but I swear by Swiftwick- they also have a lifetime guarantee, don't wear out (I wear them year-round) and they're just plain comfy. I wear a pair of medium weight Swifties plus a SealSkins sock in my Lake 303's (sized one size up) and it's solid to... well, I haven't had cold feet yet with this setup (probably in the high teens is as far as I've gotten). I bring an extra set of socks along on every ride in case my feet get too sweaty, but haven't had to swap out yet either.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  78. #78
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    Ok...boots...good boots are the answer. And not just one pair...but two. A really warm pair of boot is what you need for below zero. Invest in good ones as it is better than freezing your toes and not being able to ride again. I got the tall North Face Snow Squalls and they are great! Good to 40 below. I have been riding with them here in ND and right now it is way below zero. The key is to keep your feet dry..not just from sweat but from a boot that is not waterproof. The North Face are water proof. Like I said...these are for below zero. Yes they are expensive...$140 a pair. (They are lightweight too)

    However, I also have a pair of water resistant Rockport boots, that I wear from early fall to when it get down to zero. I also use a pair of gators on these when it gets into the teens. Gators...mine are from REI....really help keep your feet warm. You lose most of your heat around the top of the boot, and the gators help hold that in. It amazes me how good that works. But when it get really cold, the winter boots are the way to go. Think about it...you can't wear the same jacket from fall to winter, as layering only works to a point. So why would you try to use one pair of boots?
    As far as the pepper is concerned....you might as well add salt too as then once your toes are frozen you can knock them off with a hammer and fry them up. They will already be seasoned.
    Last edited by OldschoolReloaded; 12-05-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldschoolReloaded View Post
    As far as the pepper is concerned....you might as well add salt too as then once your toes are frozen you can knock them off with a hammer and fry them up. They will already be seasoned.
    Heheh... I'll second what you're saying about above/below-zero boots. I found myself quite comfortable (my rides have been short but frequent, after 2 hours @ 5*F if my feet aren't cold they aren't going to be even if I'm out all day) down to 0*F in the trailrunners I've been hiking/biking in all summer, except with a poofy-thick Smartwool sock. This unanticipated additional use makes them a good value for me, as it isn't subzero all that much of the year where I live:

    Teva® Kimtah Mid WP Mesh for Men | Waterproof Hiking Shoes at Teva.com

    I'd guess the low humidity around here sucks the perspiration right out through the mesh/tide membrane when riding, as my feet are staying really dry (drier than they did this past wet summer/fall, actually), with the thick loft of the socks providing all the insulation I need. Below zero, my feet were too cold, I own some other boots I'll be trying when subzero returns, plus sockliners, etc. I'm pleasantly surprised with these results, I'm sure the built-in gaiters on my pants help, as OldschoolReloaded pointed out.

    I prefer round-lugged treads in winter, unlike these Tevas which don't have the best tread for walking on snow/ice, but the open pattern does shed snow. Combined with the rubber staying soft and grippy in the cold, my grip on the pedals is excellent, not slipping around like my Asolo backcountry nordic boots did when I tried them -- the little pegs on the platforms don't bite into the very hard rubber compound on those.
    Last edited by bikefat; 12-06-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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    A solution that worked for me was to use flat pedals from Nashbar and Vasque Arrowhead boots. They seem similar to the 45Nrth boots, but are easier on the pocket book. I went for a 45 minute ride at -5 and my feet were toasty warm.

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    Well the In-Laws and my Wife came through....Christmas came early....I ended up putting up some of my own money too but made these much more affordable.



    I'll be able to try them Sunday Afternoon....Working a 24 today....so no Global Fatbike day for me....It'll just be belated....and we have some fresh snow too!!
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  82. #82
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    Wow...your heading said ..."on a budget"....and you dive in with the most expensive boots. Over three hundred I'd say. I thought my North Face boots were expensive at 140. Hopefully you can now walk on water... Oh well....glad you got good boots as now we don't have to call you Stumpy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldschoolReloaded View Post
    Wow...your heading said ..."on a budget"....and you dive in with the most expensive boots. Over three hundred I'd say. I thought my North Face boots were expensive at 140. Hopefully you can now walk on water... Oh well....glad you got good boots as now we don't have to call you Stumpy.

    Like I said, the In-Laws and my Wife helped a lot....so the first post was only me buying something, but three people's money > one ;p If it wasn't Christmas I wouldn't have them. But then again, these posts aren't just for me, but I'm sure others out there will certainly benefit from all of your responses. I know I did already, I tried tips from you guys and they worked great. But now I have good boots too!!

    I did a ton of research and this was the last pair in my size in PA.
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    I was out Xmas shopping with the wife, and got parked in the cooking utensils part of the store while she ventured into lady's underwear.

    While I was there I noticed that a lot of the pot stands these days are simply a sheet of some sort of silicon rubber. Now these are insulating surfaces with a huge temperature difference, so it struck me that is what I need for under my feet as an insole.

    Someone will have already thought of this for sure, so what insoles are available made of this stuff?

    Otherwise I can simply chop one up and make my own.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by vack View Post
    Like I said, the In-Laws and my Wife helped a lot....so the first post was only me buying something, but three people's money > one ;p If it wasn't Christmas I wouldn't have them. But then again, these posts aren't just for me, but I'm sure others out there will certainly benefit from all of your responses. I know I did already, I tried tips from you guys and they worked great. But now I have good boots too!!

    I did a ton of research and this was the last pair in my size in PA.
    Yeah that's cool...glad you got a good pair! Now could your in-laws get you a new bike too. LOL
    Let us know how you like them.

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    LoL I'll ask them come spring time, I really like that Pivot Mach 6!
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    Feet are Frozen...I can't take it, need a solution, on a budget

    I apologize if this was covered (haven't had time to read the entire thread) but as someone who grew up where -40 is a regular occurrence (and who has had frostbite twice... But not on my toes! -lol ), I thought I'd share my opinion on vapor barriers for feet. My wife who is an avid hiker and who didn't grow up in the Great White North didn't really understand this because she spends a lot of money on technology meant to keep sweat off of her; quality breathable gear like goretex jackets and such to keep us dry work great!

    ...but

    The feet are a bit different in that the outer most layer (for the most part) has to be water PROOF because it is against the snow, combined with the fact that they are confined&compressed for walking efficiency. Because of this, your feet's sweat is more likely to stay in the boot (unlike your core sweat which you can dry out through the great breathable layers).

    This is where a vapor barrier comes in. It is not to keep your feet dry, it is to keep your feet's insulation dry.

    If you have a vapor barrier between your feet and your wool socks (as kids in Northern Ontario we just used grocery bags) then your sweat can't soak the wool and the wool will continue to insulate.

    Without the vapor barrier your sweat will eventually soak your sock and then the insulation is useless and your feet will get cold.

    I hope this helps. Cheers


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    ...as mentioned by several folks, namely MikeC and Geek, above.

    ...vapor barriers, whether inside your sleeping bag or inside your shoes, are to keep your insulation from getting wet and useless due to perspiration.

    ..........lots of folks do not understand this......even some professionals who build breathable outerwear.

    ........one poster here erroneously-mentioned the rubber cold weather boots used by the US armed forces in extreme cold. We in Alaska know these boots as "bunny boots". They are rubber inside and out with a very thick layer of insulation encapsualted by the rubber. They are the only REAL soLUtion for cold weather foot protection that I and all the other Alaskan's know about. They are not perfect, as they are heavy, and your feet will be clammy.

    I think the poster mentioned the clammy "wetness" out of context. It is NOT about a thin layer of moisture next to the skin providing insulation properties like a watersports wetsuit! They are made of rubber to protect the insulation from ever getting wet......This is why they are the GO TO footwear article for extreme cold......just FYI...as always. D PPS.....there are other extreme cold footwear solutions.....but some of them are useless if you step in 3 inches of water.

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    In reading all the posts about keeping the insulation dry, if it hasn't been said, or I missed it, what do you think about putting a plastic bag (or 2) on your foot first to keep the sweat close to your skin, then put a wool sock/s on over the plastic bag, then put on your boots? I would think that this would be an inexpensive way to isolate the wetness from your wool insulation? Thanks for your thoughts!

  90. #90
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    Bizman, you can buy seal-skinz waterproof socks. These might be a better solution than a plastic bag right next to your skin. I use them here in Oz when riding in the wet to keep my feet warm and dry.
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  91. #91
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    The plastic bag trick works fairly well. It's at least a "boost" in the right direction. Doesn't solve the problem of having a metal cleat close to the ball of your foot, but if you've already solved that with boots or something else, the plastic bag trick is worth a shot on the coldest days.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizman View Post
    In reading all the posts about keeping the insulation dry, if it hasn't been said, or I missed it, what do you think about putting a plastic bag (or 2) on your foot first to keep the sweat close to your skin, then put a wool sock/s on over the plastic bag, then put on your boots? I would think that this would be an inexpensive way to isolate the wetness from your wool insulation? Thanks for your thoughts!
    I think this works really, really well.

    I put on thin nylon socks, wrap those in cellophane wrap and then put wool socks over that. Five Ten shoes or hiking boots, depending on how cold, but last weekend was in the high 20s, and my feet were never too hot, nor were they ever cold and I was wearing my Five Tens.

    Oh, I also use antiperspirant deodorant on my feet before putting the nylon socks on, to prevent too much sweat.

  93. #93
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    I've been meaning to try some portyanki... j/k.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    While I was there I noticed that a lot of the pot stands these days are simply a sheet of some sort of silicon rubber. Now these are insulating surfaces with a huge temperature difference, so it struck me that is what I need for under my feet as an insole.

    Someone will have already thought of this for sure, so what insoles are available made of this stuff?

    Otherwise I can simply chop one up and make my own.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/aer...rm-764840.html
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    I see there is a SPD and flat pedal Wolvhammer. Can the SPD shoe be used with flats as well or will they trash the pedal? I looked on the 45North page and didnt see anywhere this question was addressed.

    Thanks,
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by reig3 View Post
    I see there is a SPD and flat pedal Wolvhammer. Can the SPD shoe be used with flats as well or will they trash the pedal? I looked on the 45North page and didnt see anywhere this question was addressed.

    Thanks,
    Bob
    You could use the SPD version with flats if you took the cleat out. That works no problem. The classic problem with using SPD shoes of any kind on flat pedals is the cleat will slip on the metal at some point when you stand on the pedals or adjust your pedal stance. That can be disastrous. But using without SPD cleats, that's fine.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  97. #97
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    One problem I have with using a SPD shoe without clipping in, or using the cleat, is the sole is too stiff and doesn't feel good on a flat pedal. That's why I tend to save the money and use lightweight hikers instead of a SPD shoe on flats.

  98. #98
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    IDK, I was walking to the store yesterday in my microspikes and thinking that maybe we could just have pedals that are a big soft gob of sticky rubber, and then we could just build the spikes into the shoes, haha.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post
    I think this works really, really well.

    I put on thin nylon socks, wrap those in cellophane wrap and then put wool socks over that. Five Ten shoes or hiking boots, depending on how cold, but last weekend was in the high 20s, and my feet were never too hot, nor were they ever cold and I was wearing my Five Tens.

    Oh, I also use antiperspirant deodorant on my feet before putting the nylon socks on, to prevent too much sweat.
    Thanks for reinforcing the idea of putting on the bags first and the suggestions of the clear plastic rap, I will have to try that. I use flat pedals but do have SPD cleats on my boots. Usually my toes are what get cold but only when it gets down into the teens and single digits. My commute can be anywhere between 50 and 75 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Bizman, you can buy seal-skinz waterproof socks. These might be a better solution than a plastic bag right next to your skin. I use them here in Oz when riding in the wet to keep my feet warm and dry.
    Thanks for the suggestion for the Seal Skinz. I had previously researched the Seal Skins and there seem to be mixed reviews for both the gloves and the socks still leaving your feet wet and cold? I have been using some 0 deg neoprene gloves with fingerless merino wool gloves underneath which seem to work ok down to about 28-32 F but they do produce sweat and my finger tips get cold. I should probably use full fingered merino wool gloves?

    They are also wearing a hole in the palm quickly after about 10 uses and I believe I will return them too. This was the second pair after the stitching in the first pair was coming out after only about 5 times of using them. I do not recommend the 0deg neoprene gloves for durability, I will be looking for something else.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizman View Post
    They are also wearing a hole in the palm quickly after about 10 uses and I believe I will return them too. This was the second pair after the stitching in the first pair was coming out after only about 5 times of using them. I do not recommend the 0deg neoprene gloves for durability, I will be looking for something else.
    My particular Black Diamond gloves are no longer made, but I'm not in the market for anything to replace them, even though they're 20 years old, now (12 for my other pair). I've been riding with them in subzero (*F) conditions for the past week, no big thing, helps I have two sets of liners though. I'm sure others have more subzero experience than I do, but here's why I recommend:

    My first winter loading chairlifts (fixed-grip triples, "S" lift at Copper Mtn mostly, treeline), I was introduced to BD by others on my liftie crew. So I bought 'em, this was '91-'92. The palms got ripped to shreds halfway through the season, so I turned the gloves in to my BD rep. The replacement gloves were of a different construction, lasted me the rest of the season, plus the next two at Steamboat on the old Sunshine lift (heaviest fixed-grip triple-chair imaginable, also treeline) without any issues.

    I still use them every time I need to shovel snow. Or fatbike. They look brand-new. I drive a hard line on quality, and that's why I love BD, they didn't just replace my gloves with what they had in inventory, they gave me the re-design, and holy crap have they ever held up! My fingers aren't cold until less than -10*F, while the curved-finger design lets me work shifters. Maybe as I regain some level of fitness I'll go for some pogies to let me stay out longer, but I love the fact that both my pairs of BD's qualify as an investment rather than an expenditure.

    Lifetime warranty. But what I really love about BD gloves/mitts/lobsters is that I don't need their warranty anymore -- the reason their gear so totally rocks is that they've taken back what failed, and improved it to the point their warranty is just irrelevant. Any glove that can hold up to a season of wrangling fixed-grip triples, let alone three, is worth its weight in gold. BD should really pay me for advocating for them, but when my gear holds up over time, it just comes naturally to me. I love that I'm fatbiking with gloves that shoulda crapped out years ago, if other brands are any measure.
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