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  1. #1
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    fatty VS 29er

    Being a newbie with fatties, I decided to compare my Boris X9 (only ridden once before) to my Camber 29er. With my first ride, the fatty just felt odd. I really wasn't too impressed. So I decided to take my Camber down a trail and back up, then my fatty down the same trail and back up. The time for the fatty was 17 minutes and 53 seconds, ave speed 7.5 mph, max speed 19.9 mph, heart rate 95% of max on the climb. The Camber was a bit faster, 16 minutes and 50 seconds, ave speed 8 mph, max speed 21.5 mph, heart rate 92% of max.

    Going up the hill with the fatty felt a little slower, with more effort. Could be due to the extra weight and the rolling resistance. Of course, without suspension, going downhill the ride was rougher. I don't know if a front shock would help, beings I was braking more because of the jarring. Corning didn't seem as controlled with the fatty, could be due to the low pressure in the tires (10 psi).

    I bought the fatty to ride in the snow, to prevent another 20# of winter fat accumulation this winter. I know I won't be comparing my Camber in the snow with the Boris. Been there, done that with a mountain bike. I'll be putting the fatty up until that time. I think the "law of diminishing returns" applies to fatties and biking on a dry trail.

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    I ride a lot of tech/rocky stuff in north NJ....love the fat bike in the tech stuff...is it faster?...I have found for me that speed is tied into tire pressure...if I am ridding with faster guys, I up the tire pressure 1/2-1 lb f&r to keep from hitting rims...the ride is not as nice but you can go faster....Is it faster than a 29er?...not for me but I can clear sections on the fat bike that I can not on the 29er. Having all that rubber on the trail makes all the differance in loose rock climbs and alike....for me.
    The bike is never to heavy, you are just to WEAK!

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    I have a RIP9 (FS 29er) and a Fatboy with a Bluto on it. I haven't done any testing like you did, but I ride with the same group of guys every Sunday. I am not much, if any, slower on my Fatboy than on the RIP9. I think the Fatboy carries through corners better, a combination of the additional traction (meaning I can lean harder into corners) and more momentum from the heavier wheels.

    I was off the fat bike for a few weeks, and I really did not like the way the RIP9 rode compared to the Fatboy. I'm a bit upset about this, I'm not ready to cash in my RIP9 yet, but the Fatboy is so much more fun to ride. Before putting the Bluto on it, I agree that technical descents were much slower on the fat bike (I wouldn't even take it on the "big boy" rides before getting the fork).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME View Post
    I can clear sections on the fat bike that I can not on the 29er. Having all that rubber on the trail makes all the differance in loose rock climbs and alike....for me.
    this^^^^^^^^^. a skinny tire mtb is not faster if the fat tire mtb can roll thru everything and the 29er is dabbing, stopping, and struggling. i do a lot of waiting in the trails by me if i'm riding with folks on 29ers, even light carbon full squish 29ers that are 10 lbs lighter than my full rigid cooker maxi. so, op, go ride the more/most techy/loose stuff you got on each bike, time it, and get back to us. throw some sand/mud/tall grassy fields, stream crossings, etc, then tell us which bike is more capable. 29ers are more one/lesser trick pony's compared to fatties.

    rog

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    Comparing a 35 pound, rigid fatbike to a 24 pound, 29" XC racer? yeah, one might perform a little better than another, especially if you have the stock Vee mission tires with tubes on your Boris, which will negatively affect the handling and feel of the bike. putting on a lighter tire with better traction and setting it up tubeless will give your boris a better feel and drop the weight quite a bit, but it still isn't a full suspension XC race bike. it's gonna be slower.
    That said, the beauty of the fatty, as has been mentioned previously, is that it can go places that the 29er can't and is appreciably simpler and more durable.

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    Don't know what you weigh, but 10psi is high for a fatbike and will feel jarring and will affect handling as well. Keep riding and play with tire pressure and report back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I have a RIP9 (FS 29er) and a Fatboy with a Bluto on it. I haven't done any testing like you did, but I ride with the same group of guys every Sunday. I am not much, if any, slower on my Fatboy than on the RIP9. I think the Fatboy carries through corners better, a combination of the additional traction (meaning I can lean harder into corners) and more momentum from the heavier wheels.

    I was off the fat bike for a few weeks, and I really did not like the way the RIP9 rode compared to the Fatboy. I'm a bit upset about this, I'm not ready to cash in my RIP9 yet, but the Fatboy is so much more fun to ride. Before putting the Bluto on it, I agree that technical descents were much slower on the fat bike (I wouldn't even take it on the "big boy" rides before getting the fork).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Comparing a 35 pound, rigid fatbike to a 24 pound, 29" XC racer? yeah, one might perform a little better than another, especially if you have the stock Vee mission tires with tubes on your Boris, which will negatively affect the handling and feel of the bike. putting on a lighter tire with better traction and setting it up tubeless will give your boris a better feel and drop the weight quite a bit, but it still isn't a full suspension XC race bike. it's gonna be slower.
    That said, the beauty of the fatty, as has been mentioned previously, is that it can go places that the 29er can't and is appreciably simpler and more durable.
    That is not what a wanted to hear. Now I have to think about upgrading to a Bluto, different tires and going tubeless. My wife is not going to like this. I just bought my Camber early in the summer and now the fatty. When she saw the fatty she said, "How much have you spent on bikes this year?" My response was, "cheaper than a heart catheterization or a open heart surgery"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Don't know what you weigh, but 10psi is high for a fatbike and will feel jarring and will affect handling as well. Keep riding and play with tire pressure and report back.
    194#, dry in skivvies. What pressure would you recommend?

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    try 8 psi.

    My 29er feels like a BMX bike compared to my fatty. I actually prefer the fatbike.
    I like turtles

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    try 8 psi.

    My 29er feels like a BMX bike compared to my fatty. I actually prefer the fatbike.
    What tires? Tubeless? Bluto?

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    Tubeless Bud and Lou on Clownshoes. Currently rigid. I'm about to build Darryls and add a Bluto.
    I like turtles

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Don't know what you weigh, but 10psi is high for a fatbike and will feel jarring and will affect handling as well.
    not high at all. i'm 165 lb and ride 10 for trail and it's a lovely balance of comfort/speed/handling. super duper rocky where i ride. 10 feels like full squish compared to my rigid 29ers of the past with 25-28psi. rigid and higher pressures only feel jarring if you ride stiff and non athletically.

    rog

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    How about just going out and having a blast and not worrying about what is faster? =) Did you have fun while riding the fatty? Yes? Great. No? Not sure spending $220 on new tires is going to help that much. Did you have fun riding the Niner? Yes? Great. No? Sell that skinny tired wimp and ride the fatty. =)

    Not sure comparing speed, time, etc is a way to figure out if you like riding a fat bike or not. They weren't designed to be a race bike. They weren't designed to be a cross country bike either. But it's a bike, with big, fat tires on it. And they do pretty darn well at riding trails. My fat bike is my only bike (Surly Pugsley) and I ride the same trails as all the full suspension, $8,000 race bike riding dudes ride. Am I as fast as them? Not a chance. Am I having more fun than them? In my eyes, hell yeah. Riding a fat bike on single track is the most fun thing in the world. Am I planning on racing my Pugsley? You damn right I am. Do I plan on winning? Hahaha.

    Oh and that tire pressure thing: Maybe that's a thing for super bike nerds or something. I am riding my big, heavy 27tpi Surly Nate's with big, heavy tubes at a pressure of...whatever the shop set it at and I love it. I even test rode a Pugsley for two days before I bought mine and had no clue what the tire pressure was set at on that one and still had a blast.

    So long story short, your fat bike will never be as fast as your race(y) bike. Your fat bike will never be as light as your race(y) bike. Just go out and ride dude. I'm super stoked that my Pugsley is my only bike. And I'm going to ride that thing into the ground and have a blast doing it.

  14. #14
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    Yup. I bought a fatty so I could explore and have more fun. I achieved these expectations.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    That is not what a wanted to hear. Now I have to think about upgrading to a Bluto, different tires and going tubeless. My wife is not going to like this. I just bought my Camber early in the summer and now the fatty. When she saw the fatty she said, "How much have you spent on bikes this year?" My response was, "cheaper than a heart catheterization or a open heart surgery"
    The only problem with this is that diet will have more of a positive affect on those two items than riding, but don't tell her that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    That is not what a wanted to hear. Now I have to think about upgrading to a Bluto, different tires and going tubeless. My wife is not going to like this. I just bought my Camber early in the summer and now the fatty. When she saw the fatty she said, "How much have you spent on bikes this year?" My response was, "cheaper than a heart catheterization or a open heart surgery"
    don't worry too much about the Bluto just yet. I just recently purchased a rigid SS 29er and discovered that suspension is nice, but far from necessary. i ride all the same trails. proper tire pressure for your weight, riding style, and terrain can have a big impact on your comfort/fun. i say play with the tire pressure before you decide you need a bluto.

    as far as tire upgrade... if you find you are exceeding the limits of your current tires on a regular basis then upgrade and don't look back. my .02

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    194#, dry in skivvies. What pressure would you recommend?
    I'm 205# and prefer the tires as low as i can get them without hitting the rim. 6-8 front, 7-9 rear on a pugsley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BENKD29 View Post
    don't worry too much about the Bluto just yet. I just recently purchased a rigid SS 29er and discovered that suspension is nice, but far from necessary. i ride all the same trails. proper tire pressure for your weight, riding style, and terrain can have a big impact on your comfort/fun. i say play with the tire pressure before you decide you need a bluto.

    as far as tire upgrade... if you find you are exceeding the limits of your current tires on a regular basis then upgrade and don't look back. my .02
    this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    just got done riding an area that i hadn't ridden in a good 5 years. tons of up and down with rocks, rocks, and more rocks. tons of roots too and EVERYTHING was wet and slimy after last nights rain and this am's 1000% humidity.

    there is no way in helL that i coulda ridden a 29er up some of the stuff that the fatty made easy work of. the climbs/descents were up to a mile long each and i was in my 30x36 way more than i would like to admit. STEEP.

    god i love my fatty

    rog

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    Am I correct to say that a fatty and a 29er are two different animals and not meant to be compared? You can't really expect to go out and ride your fat bike like a 29er or vice versa.

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    I bet you would be faster on a motorcycle, probably should buy that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oaker View Post
    Am I correct to say that a fatty and a 29er are two different animals and not meant to be compared? You can't really expect to go out and ride your fat bike like a 29er or vice versa.
    They ride differently, that's for sure, but they are both bikes, more similar than different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oaker View Post
    Am I correct to say that a fatty and a 29er are two different animals and not meant to be compared? You can't really expect to go out and ride your fat bike like a 29er or vice versa.
    Sorta. There are lots of variations within both platforms. The distinction starts to fade when you have 29ers on fatter tires and fatties on narrower rims with the lower spectrum of fat tire widths. A light carbon fatty on carbon rims can be pretty nimble. Outer tire diameter of a 26" fatty is almost identical to a skinny 29er.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd Wong View Post
    I bet you would be faster on a motorcycle, probably should buy that.
    wrong...I don't ride motorcycles, especially on snow packed trails

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    I guess I compared because people were saying the fatty does it all and they ditched their 26er/29er in favor of the fatty. For the trail and conditions I tested, I'll take my 29er. When the trail warrants it, I'll take the fatty, ie loose rocky, slimy trails or riding in the snow which is why I bought the fatty in the first place, kinda like the OP. I am just blessed that I have the resources to have both bikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    I think the "law of diminishing returns" applies to fatties and biking on a dry trail.
    I don't know anyone that rides at 100% all the time. So you can "make up" for a slower bike in the short run, but at the end of a long day you will be gassed. So any test really needs to be a day long affair to pull out the differences fully.

    How important this all is just depends how much of your energy you are currently using to get your rides done.

    If you are soft pedalling and riding with folks that are slower than you or riding solo at a casual pace - it doesn't matter at all.

    If you are being pushed pretty hard by faster riders or pushing yourself riding solo it matters quite a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    I guess I compared because people were saying the fatty does it all and they ditched their 26er/29er in favor of the fatty. For the trail and conditions I tested, I'll take my 29er. When the trail warrants it, I'll take the fatty, ie loose rocky, slimy trails or riding in the snow which is why I bought the fatty in the first place, kinda like the OP. I am just blessed that I have the resources to have both bikes
    As I said, I only ride a Pugsley and go where everyone else can go. I'm just a little slower and I'm fine with that.

    And I've read this somewhere before: It's a fat bike, not a fast bike. =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    I guess I compared because people were saying the fatty does it all
    It does "do it all", just like you can drive a van on a road, off road, on a race track, up a mountain road, in rain, etc. Doesn't mean the van is anywhere near optimal for the conditions or what you are using it for. It's not like skis, which work on snow, but not so well on dirt and rocks. There are literally mountains of evidence showing how rotational mass and acceleration of mass (not limited to just wheels) are absolutely huge factors on mountain bikes. By the same token, a big low-pressure tire will never absorb bumps outside of a narrow frequency range by itself (in winter it gets aided by compression of snow and the fact that you tend to ride in a narrower speed-range), a rigid bike with 4" tires still rides like a rigid bike in the summer. With the tire pressure enough to suck up roots at slow speed, you significantly accelerate the wear on the tires and they get so squirmy that your control goes back down in turns, not to mention the effect on pedaling. Fat tires have nothing on decent suspension uphill.

    But in the end, there's nothing stopping one from riding a fatbike almost anywhere, because wheels roll, and some riders are strong enough to ride these with their friends at speeds similar to their friends. On the other hand, some riders are so slow that these bikes make almost no noticeable difference that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschreck View Post
    And I've read this somewhere before: It's a fat bike, not a fast bike. =)
    depends on who's riding it.

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    depends on who's riding it.

    rog
    Not really. The faster rider has the potential to go very fast so if he's not achieving his potential it's not a fast bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Not really. The faster rider has the potential to go very fast so if he's not achieving his potential it's not a fast bike.
    tell that to ned after he smoked a pro field short track race on his fatty when everyone else was on skinny's. ned won

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    tell that to ned after he smoked a pro field short track race on his fatty when everyone else was on skinny's. ned won

    rog
    Awesome. I can't wait to see Nino Schurter attack the WC XC circuit next year on a fatty then. He'll probably be so fast he'll finish before other racers even start.

    Hopefully some sanity will prevail and the UCI will at least make him ride a Wall-Goose so it's a real race.
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    tell that to ned after he smoked a pro field short track race on his fatty when everyone else was on skinny's. ned won

    rog
    Yes, next year, TDF, Velodrome, BMX and World Cup XC will all be on fatbike, because it's so fastester and furiester. You provided an exception, exceptions don't make the rule.
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    We spent most the weekend doing gravity runs (without shuttle) and I had both a my fully 29er and my Bluto fatty. They where both fun but overall I could ride longer, faster, and felt better at the end of the day on the 29er. This wasn't very technical terrain but when it got wet I was more than happy to take the fatty out. Just my experience ymmv. As far as the OP experiencing sucky handling look at the tires, air pressure and overall bike setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It does "do it all", just like you can drive a van on a road, off road, on a race track, up a mountain road, in rain, etc. Doesn't mean the van is anywhere near optimal for the conditions or what you are using it for. It's not like skis, which work on snow, but not so well on dirt and rocks. There are literally mountains of evidence showing how rotational mass and acceleration of mass (not limited to just wheels) are absolutely huge factors on mountain bikes. By the same token, a big low-pressure tire will never absorb bumps outside of a narrow frequency range by itself (in winter it gets aided by compression of snow and the fact that you tend to ride in a narrower speed-range), a rigid bike with 4" tires still rides like a rigid bike in the summer. With the tire pressure enough to suck up roots at slow speed, you significantly accelerate the wear on the tires and they get so squirmy that your control goes back down in turns, not to mention the effect on pedaling. Fat tires have nothing on decent suspension uphill.

    But in the end, there's nothing stopping one from riding a fatbike almost anywhere, because wheels roll, and some riders are strong enough to ride these with their friends at speeds similar to their friends. On the other hand, some riders are so slow that these bikes make almost no noticeable difference that way.
    a rigid fatbike at 8-10 psi does not ride like a skinny tire bike at higher pressures on summer trail. been riding almost exclusively rigid for 25 years in all conditions. there most certainly is a difference.

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    I guess I compared because people were saying the fatty does it all and they ditched their 26er/29er in favor of the fatty. For the trail and conditions I tested, I'll take my 29er. When the trail warrants it, I'll take the fatty, ie loose rocky, slimy trails or riding in the snow which is why I bought the fatty in the first place, kinda like the OP. I am just blessed that I have the resources to have both bikes
    you've also ridden your fatty how many times? ride just your fatbike for a month or two and then do a comparison. you may still be faster on the 29er, but most likely not as much of a difference. When i first got my pugsley, it was SLOW! pedaling it was work and my legs were weak. having ridden only fatbikes for the past 2 years, now, when i put 29er wheels on, i can go slightly faster, but i notice that i also have less confidence in cornering compared to fat tires and considerably less traction in many situations. at the end of the day, i find that i prefer my fatbike, but i can't say that was the case when i began. i liked it for the novelty and the feeling of invincibility on terrain, but when i wanted to go fast, i took my 29er. These days, i'd rather just have my fatbike. YMMV

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    If I was riding my fatbike yesterday, I wouldn't have busted my ass when I hit that unexpected deep sand around the bend. Stupid 29er.
    I like turtles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Fat tires have nothing on decent suspension uphill.
    I have zero fat bike experience, but was under the impression that on a hill with loose surface, a fatbike had an advantage due to improved traction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    a rigid fatbike at 8-10 psi does not ride like a skinny tire bike at higher pressures on summer trail. been riding almost exclusively rigid for 25 years in all conditions. there most certainly is a difference.

    rog
    Yes, I was riding my fatbike for half of last summer or so before I got another fully, the fatbike rides mostly like a rigid bike during the summer. Oh, not quite as harsh as a rigid 29er, but still, much more like a rigid bike than anything else (with wheels made of lead).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    I have zero fat bike experience, but was under the impression that on a hill with loose surface, a fatbike had an advantage due to improved traction.
    Actually, in some situations, I get a decrease in traction. We have some nice extremely smooth hardpacked trails, but I've found when they get a little wet due to drizzle or light rain, fatbikes tend to slide much easier than skinny tires (same conditions on same trails). Otherwise, no, I don't notice any better "traction" on a fatbike as compared to a suspension 29er. Maybe in rolling over stuff on level ground where rocks on the side of your line can support your tire a bit and allow you to roll over where you'd normally sink to the lowest point, but then a 29er with it's large wheels usually rolls over stuff pretty darn well.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Actually, in some situations, I get a decrease in traction. We have some nice extremely smooth hardpacked trails, but I've found when they get a little wet due to drizzle or light rain, fatbikes tend to slide much easier than skinny tires (same conditions on same trails). Otherwise, no, I don't notice any better "traction" on a fatbike as compared to a suspension 29er. Maybe in rolling over stuff on level ground where rocks on the side of your line can support your tire a bit and allow you to roll over where you'd normally sink to the lowest point, but then a 29er with it's large wheels usually rolls over stuff pretty darn well.
    Thanks, I will deffer to your experience, but that somehow sounds counter-intuitive.

    I can see that being the case around bends, but just slowly trying to tractor up a hill...surely a bigger contact patch has to help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    I can see that being the case around bends, but just slowly trying to tractor up a hill...surely a bigger contact patch has to help.
    fatbike=more traction in most situations.

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Actually, in some situations, I get a decrease in traction.
    +1 - the low ground pressure can be a negative as it doesn't push the knobs into ground very hard.

    Fat tires can provide better traction, but it really is a case by case thing.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  43. #43
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    Here is my question? Some fat bikes are getting really light. I am waiting on a Specialized Superlight that is 24 pounds out of the box. Tubeless will help that be even lighter. So, if you are riding a 24 pound bike then you should be able to do as well as anyone else on a similar bike. IMHO. I cannot wait and I am gonna race mine and I will bet, with it being that light, I will be about as fast as on any of my other bikes. But who cares. I demoed a fat bike and it was so damn fun and those suckers will roll over about anything. I have to be patient but I am looking forward to this bike more than any other bike, I have owned. I have read and read this forum and see how much you all love them. Well, you all cannot be lying.

  44. #44
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    Thanks Jayem, vikb and newmarketro.

    I am slowly starting to understand this. My new fatbike should be here Thursday so hopefully this weekend I will get some first hand experience.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertdavid View Post
    Here is my question? Some fat bikes are getting really light. I am waiting on a Specialized Superlight that is 24 pounds out of the box. Tubeless will help that be even lighter. So, if you are riding a 24 pound bike then you should be able to do as well as anyone else on a similar bike. IMHO. I cannot wait and I am gonna race mine and I will bet, with it being that light, I will be about as fast as on any of my other bikes. But who cares. I demoed a fat bike and it was so damn fun and those suckers will roll over about anything. I have to be patient but I am looking forward to this bike more than any other bike, I have owned. I have read and read this forum and see how much you all love them. Well, you all cannot be lying.
    Lightweight helps, but even lightweight tires average 1200-1300 and require a lot more sealant than 29er or 26er tires. Then there's the rims, true fat rims are around 650g for carbon, around 550 for the lightest 65mm rims, which are far skinnier than you'd want for snow or sand. The hub is a teeny big heavier, but all of this is increased rotational mass, in fact, compared to a regular bike, we're talking around ~4-5lbs heavier than the lightest XC rigid build. If you can build a 17lb bike and a 21lb bike the 21lb bike is still a damn light bike, but if the difference is all in the rotational mass, it's going to be a much slower bike. A light bike helps in many other ways IMO, because you are constantly accelerating the mass of the bike in many directions while riding, but the wheels and pedaling are the overriding factors.

    To make it fair, compare your superlight with a 30lb enduro bike, now take that 6lb wieight difference and put it on your superlight in the form of nokian 3.0 tires, HED downhill rims, super thick thorn resistant tubes filled with slime, etc. In that case, I'd rather be on the enduro bike with it's light wheels.

    But again, the overriding factor with a fatbike is you CAN ride it in nearly every riding condition that can be encountered and more. That right there is why we buy them. I can't even go out and ride in 2 feet of powder because fatbikes don't do that and some snow conditions suck to be on a fatbike in, but it's worth it for the times you can get out there without a worry and go ride. Don't have unrealistic expectations, but just go out there and enjoy. The fatbike balloon reminds me of the 29er balloon, the market went absolutely crazy for a few years, then scaled back to it's current entrenched form. I expect to see the same with fatbikes and 650b, just give it a little time. These bikes won't be going anywhere and people will ride them, they just won't all be the best thing ever, they'll be the best thing for someone who wants them.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  46. #46
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    + A lot of what was said in the previous posts.

    FWIW I primarily rode a Raleigh XXIX SS for since summer of 2010 - its great fun and I dug the big tires. Confidence inspiring, simple and FUN; which is why we ride in the first place right?

    Last fall, I pulled the trigger on a Pugsley andů Well, I still ride the Raliegh, but not as much. The Pugsley crushes the capabilities and FUN factor 95% of the time in my experience.

    I would also draw stout support to the commentary regarding the "RIDE THE FATTY A LOT" - I've had my fare share of swear fits when getting the legs into FAT shape, but once you're there, you're there and you can eat any terrain you want for breakfast, lunch and dinner. In addition the "PSI - being crucial" also will make or break your experience. I'd just suggest you play around with different configurations to find what works for yah. Too much and das bike will buck you around like an enraged bull and too little and you'll feel the slog jog, get after the middle ground.

    I'm currently running Captiv8ers on the Pugs and it slays the road riding as well. No 20+mph runs (unless going down hill), but in Northern Wisco, where the roads aren't the best, it rolls over anything and everything that seems to clog the non-bike-friendly shoulders.

    Skip the hype, the numbers, the schematics of lab tests of fat vs 29er wheels and get out and spin dem tires till you smile from ear to ear

  47. #47
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    Do we really have to rehash this every week? Yes, you (and I) are slower on dry trails on a fatbike. If that makes you have less fun, ride something else. Otherwise, the rider having the most fun wins and for lots of people that's a fatbike.

    -Walt

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Do we really have to rehash this every week? Yes, you (and I) are slower on dry trails on a fatbike. If that makes you have less fun, ride something else. Otherwise, the rider having the most fun wins and for lots of people that's a fatbike.

    -Walt
    Well said... (Golf Clap)
    Many Sundays, I show up on my fatbike and just bring up the rear. I really don't care if I can't keep up with the carbon guys.
    I like turtles

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Do we really have to rehash this every week?
    We gotta have somethin' for us girls to gab about!

    OP listen to me....Take time to ensure your bike is fit correctly for you. Make sure your KOPS is similar, or the same as other bikes you own, and study what you do and don't like about the bike. The tires and frame are heavier than you are used to, and you can change the amount of rotating mass easily with $$$. Remember that the two bikes have different geometry, and maybe aren't setup to accomplish the same tasks.

    I ride a 9ZERO7 w/ Rolling Darryl (drilled) and Hudu/Knard split tube. I have an awesome time on my bike. I push it very harder into corners, brake later, and lean over much more than my FS 29er. The width and profile of the tire allow ME to have much more confidence in the corners, and I have NEVER thought any other bike offered more traction. Put as much front brake into the bike as you want, you will have a hard time locking the tire up. Put as much power into your rear tire as you can muster, and it just bites.

    I am 235lbs w/o bike or gear, and ride 7-8psi F and 8-10 psi R. Anything more is not taking advantage of the tires size and capabilities IMHO. At that pressure traction and cushion are a real advantage over any other bike. No, the tires won't take up a 3-4" root or rock, but they will take up half of it, and allow you to hold your line much easier bombing across them.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    +1 - the low ground pressure can be a negative as it doesn't push the knobs into ground very hard.

    Fat tires can provide better traction, but it really is a case by case thing.
    +2 - we got caught in a rain storm on a recent ride, the top 1/4" of trail was slick - more slick on my fat bike than it was for the skinny tired guys.

  51. #51
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    ^^^^^^^^agreed. Rode one of the most techy areas around eastern nh today. 1st time ever on my fatty and i was in my glory. Everything that i used to take a bit of pause or barely or not clean may as well be hardpacked smooth trail. The guy i rode with on his carbon niner got of and walked 10 times to my one. So great.

    rog

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    And the fatty was waaaaaaaay faster as a result. Early in the ride he was leading and going really good on the smoother stuff. I kept up by pushing a bigger gear with half his cadence. When things got rough i was gone. He said it was pretty comical to watch me just disappear. The last part of the loop is wicked fast down with some rolling ups so i threw it into my 30 x11 and gave it to her good. No issues there either. The knards cornered and stuck unreal. He was a good sport about it. After the ride he asked me if any shops demo fatties

    I did my job

    rog

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    ... the rider having the most fun wins ...

    -Walt
    The problem with that is there is no way way to quantify the amount of fun a rider is experiencing. To remedy that I've been working on a "fun meter". It will measure selected physiological responses which will be analyzed in real time for display and saved for playback later. A sensor will be attached to a location on the body where there's a high concentration of fun receptors.

    I know what you're thinking - yes, it will be ANT+ compatible.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    The problem with that is there is no way way to quantify the amount of fun a rider is experiencing. To remedy that I've been working on a "fun meter". It will measure selected physiological responses which will be analyzed in real time for display and saved for playback later. A sensor will be attached to a location on the body where there's a high concentration of fun receptors.

    I know what you're thinking - yes, it will be ANT+ compatible.
    When will it be ready for purchase ? I might need it to justify my bucksaw purchase to my wife! LOL

  55. #55
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    ANT+ portable FMRI?

    Frighteningly enough, that's basically doable right now. You probably could quantify your emotional state during a ride if you wanted to - though of course there are other things that affect your mood than the quality of the ride.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    The problem with that is there is no way way to quantify the amount of fun a rider is experiencing. To remedy that I've been working on a "fun meter". It will measure selected physiological responses which will be analyzed in real time for display and saved for playback later. A sensor will be attached to a location on the body where there's a high concentration of fun receptors.

    I know what you're thinking - yes, it will be ANT+ compatible.

  56. #56
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    Like I say...

  57. #57
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    LOL.....I also own a Moto Boris and Spec Camber, I run the same trials so I also compared the two, I really noticed the extra weight of the boris, but I found hills to be a breeze on it as well, some of the really rutty sections of path I was able to bull over and just climb up the hill, slow and steady, on my camber in those sections I always lose grip (could be the tires still running stock) and end up walking it over those sections, over all though my times were pretty close looking on strava.

    Its a little more muddy after a good rain so im taking the fatty out again and lowered the pressure down to 10 lbs front and rear (15 lbs before that) and want to see how it performs.

    Its nice having a second bike around though, my cambers rear derailleur broke and im waiting on a new sram X.O
    2017 Surly Ogre

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forged1 View Post
    When will it be ready for purchase ? I might need it to justify my bucksaw purchase to my wife! LOL
    Err, any day now. Send me a bag of small unmarked bills to reserve yours now!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    ANT+ portable FMRI?

    Frighteningly enough, that's basically doable right now. You probably could quantify your emotional state during a ride if you wanted to - though of course there are other things that affect your mood than the quality of the ride.

    -Walt
    There's no emotional downside to riding a fat bike. If anything affects your mood negatively, just ride over it/him.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevob View Post
    There's no emotional downside to riding a fat bike. If anything affects your mood negatively, just ride over it/him.
    Words to live by.

  61. #61
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    What he said.-----^

  62. #62
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    So to sum up what I learned in this thread:

    Riding a Fatbike may actually be faster in certain conditions but it will almost always make you happier.

  63. #63
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    yup!

    rog

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    +1 - the low ground pressure can be a negative as it doesn't push the knobs into ground very hard.
    Could it be that the knobs don't bite into the dirt nearly as much because there are 3-4 times as many of them contacting the ground compared to a standard 29er tire? And to achieve the same amount of tracion, the knobs only "need" to bite in a little bit?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    That is not what a wanted to hear. Now I have to think about upgrading to a Bluto, different tires and going tubeless.
    So just start with a pair of OnOne Floaters and 26x2.5-3 tubes. Just over $150 and I'd bet a very noticeable difference.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Could it be that the knobs don't bite into the dirt nearly as much because there are 3-4 times as many of them contacting the ground compared to a standard 29er tire? And to achieve the same amount of traction, the knobs only "need" to bite in a little bit?
    Exactly. Damp clay hardpack is the worst.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MauricioB View Post
    So just start with a pair of OnOne Floaters and 26x2.5-3 tubes. Just over $150 and I'd bet a very noticeable difference.
    Anyone have a review of the OnOne Floaters in the snow? Why 26x2.5-3" tubes?

  68. #68
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    cuz they are lighter. i run 26 x 2.4-2.75 in my knards. 250-ish grams each. my stock tubes were 490 grams each.

    rog

  69. #69
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    This -->

    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    So to sum up what I learned in this thread:

    Riding a Fatbike may actually be faster in certain conditions but it will almost always make you happier.

  70. #70
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    Thinking about this. I picked up a Fatboy and sold my Flash 29er. Trying to see if I can be happy with just a fat bike.

  71. #71
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    I put a Bluto on my Fatboy and running 3.8" Nates. Sold my Camber last month When the snow flies he will wear the 4.6" Ground Controls.

    fatty VS 29er-fatboy-bluto.jpg

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnur22 View Post
    I put a Bluto on my Fatboy and running 3.8" Nates. Sold my Camber last month When the snow flies he will wear the 4.6" Ground Controls.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not missing the Camber? I miss my Flash 29er a bit,

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiver View Post
    Not missing the Camber? I miss my Flash 29er a bit,
    I've been riding a Trance 3 on and off. The fatty offers more stability and speed going down hills I'll stick with my fatty. In fact, I'm going to buy a carbon frame/wheel set and build my sub 30# fatty. Maybe buy a full suspension fatty frame and build a 31# fatty

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