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Thread: Is fat dead?

  1. #1
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    Is fat dead?

    I got the fatbike bug in 2015. If you had told me then that 75% of my riding would be on the fat Iíd have said youíre crazy. I have a nice fs, but on anything other than perfect trail, the combo of mega grip and right now power transfer make the fatty the clear choice.

    Iím not concerned with what other riders spend their money on, but three years ago, the industry was unable to keep up with demand for all things fat. Lately I see very little product development going on and am starting to wonder if fatbikes will even maintain what market share they currently have.

    So so what say you, mtbr Illuminati? Fat bikes; evolutionary dead end or cyclingís best kept secret?

  2. #2
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    Not at all in my area. They just keep getting more and more popular.

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    Same here , seems like every year there are a few more. I think eventually it will die out or be hipster only in some areas , but other places (especially where it snows and/or freezes up) I believe they are here to stay.

    Edit : It really comes down to what one wants to do with it. I have a great full sus bike for when I wanna go for a fast rip or long summer epic rides. But for EVERYTHING else (bikepacking , winter riding, beaches , beer runs / pub crawls , grocery runs , neighborhood jaunts , a loaner bike , etc) that's when the fat bikes comes out to play.
    Last edited by AK Prototype; 10-08-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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  4. #4
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    I thoroughly enjoy my fs during the warmer months, but the snowy months are all about the fattie. So that means late November to probably middle to late April. Fat is not dead here.
    Many people like the fatter tires because of the amount of sand we have here too.
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  5. #5
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    The bubble burst is all. I think there was a moment in time where everybody felt they needed one and the options increased and the standards were debated in sales numbers. Now, perhaps, we all have one and have either decided we don't need more or it wasn't the quiver killer it was talked up to be. That said, I agree with the 2 previous posters that the fatties aren't goin anywhere, but the options have streamlined for new since there was such an influx of product of few years ago. There will always be fat bikes in MN, maybe not so much in Arizona...
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  6. #6
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    Iíve been riding fatbikes since 2010 (back when 3.8" was ďfatĒ), and now am on my fifth or sixth fatbike. Still havenít ridden one in the snow, but Iím pretty sure theyíre totally kickass for snow riding. For me, theyíre not dead yet. If I had more money to spend on bikes Iíd build up a 27.5+ bike, but for now the fatbike is here to stay.
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  7. #7
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    I sold my fat bike in 2016 when I moved from AK to AZ. Don't miss it one bit. I always viewed my fatty as a snow/sand bike. I could find a use for one here in AZ, but really wouldnt use it that much. If I moved north again, I would buy another one in a heartbeat and sell my FS.
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    I think the boom in fat bike sales is over. I've heard that one of the things that made manufacturers de-emphasize fat bikes is that the tech won't improve significantly because it doesn't need complicated solutions like suspension. In other words, fat bikes aren't as prone to planned obsolescence as FS MTB's, for instance. That means people buy one fat bike and don't get trapped on the upgrade cycles of a new bike every 2-3 years.

    I love my fat bike, and ride it as often on the road as I do on trails or in the snow. But it still doesn't get the miles that my road bike gets, and it still is definitely #3 in the quiver after the road bike and the FS MTB.

    I think the economics of fat bikes are daunting, particularly due to the cost of the tires. Getting a replacement set of Jumbo Jim's is a LOT of cash -- more for a set of everyday fat bike tires than for super-premium road bike tires. And don't even get me started on studded snow tires, which cost more than the top-of-the-line Michelins I put on my Suburban. I suspect that this is more of a factor in the thinking of marginal (i.e., non-fanatical) fat bike prospective buyers than those of us who are enthusiasts will admit.
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    Believe they will go back to smaller brand status. Back to their roots, if you will.

    Fat bikes are all about the tires, IMO. And in the past 2 years new tires to market by the big names have vanished. We're just getting variations of sizes and studability. Nothing new from Maxxis (they been showing the Moosetrax for how long?) Schwalbe, 1 tread in 3 widths........come on? Kenda has put out some kids 20 & 24 tires I think. Continental still nothing. WTB?

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    Not dead....but sales are waning ( this is across the industry as a whole)
    Most of the big names have thinned out their fat offerings...and Salsa and Trek have dropped their FS fatties (Trek still sells a frameset...I bet it will be gone in 2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Believe they will go back to smaller brand status. Back to their roots, if you will.
    That'd be what I expect. They're a niche, either because it's the perfect tool for a job most people don't have, or like single speeds, just a preference most people don't share. Plus bikes have also stolen marketshare for those on the edge who might have bought one to complement their 2.3" bike.

  12. #12
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    In Europe Cube have dropped 2 of the 3 Nutrail variants, but have kept the e version.
    I've also noticed the various UK online stores have dropped a lot of the fat tyre options.

  13. #13
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    You're seeing refinement happen. And it's good.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidCharlemagne View Post
    In other words, fat bikes aren't as prone to planned obsolescence as FS MTB's, for instance.
    No but believe me , they will find ways to make them obsolete.
    There is already : 135, 170 , 177 , 190 , 197 , QR , TA just for the rear axle.
    You bike WILL be obsolete in 3/4 years.

    But the nice part is that you don't HAVE to drink that KoolAid and you can keep your bike and buy parts that will fit your bike.
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  15. #15
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    Limited use where I live and super hyped IMO.

    I took note of them but knew that a fat bike would not be ridden very often.

    A buddy of mine built a very cool (an expensive) one a few years ago. It mostly gathers dust now because he can't keep on multi-hour rides with us rolling more "traditional" 2.6/2.4/2.25" knobby tires.
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  16. #16
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    Dead? Dying? No idea whatís going on globally but itís booming where I live. We started fat biking on snow at the end of September so there could be a 7+ month snow bike season here this year. I saw at least a dozen fat bikers yesterday. But I live in a niche market full of freaks so that might not be enough to drive global market trends for big bike brands...

  17. #17
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    Yep, a bubble for sure. They are a staple up here in the North and they won't ever be gone from this locale, but in the summer I see little point to it except it makes a decent commuter and I have put the hurt on a few guys during a gravel grinder race or two (but the aero kills me when I can't draft). Several things work against them in the summer, rotating mass, undamped travel, rolling resistance, etc. In the winter, you need some decent packed trails to really take advantage. I've been out riding in the snow before and an inch or two can be done on almost any kind of mountain bike, although the fatty does make it funner, but if you are in a place where all you get is an occasional inch or two, you are buying a bike for a few days of riding/year. Fat bikes have absolutely exploded the winter riding in the Northern and alpine locations where previously a few people got out on studded tires when conditions were really hardpack. Now we can ride nearly all winter in all sorts of conditions, with all users helping to contribute to the state of the trails (skiers, runners, bikers, snow-machiners, etc.). Now the bikes AND supporting gear is "dialed" to allow us to go out and ride all day (or night) in subfreezing temps. Bikes are only a part of this, but probably the most important part.

    As soon as the snow on the trails can no longer support the fatbike, I take the winter-tires off, throw on some commuting fat-tires and then use it as my commuting/ride in the rain when the trails are wet/brewery-bike. As soon as we get snow, I mount up the winter tires on my wheelsets and head off into the boreal forest.

    A little off topic, I've been DHing since the late 90s. In the 2000s, there was definitely a DH and freeride "bubble". We had 3.0" tires for a while from several manufacturers, 2.8 from another, and lots and lots of 2.7s. Things have settled down and it's rare that someone runs more than a 2.5 these days for straight DH stuff. The bigger tires simply slowed you down more. I see the same thing with my riding in general on my XC and AM bikes, there's a tire size that seems pretty optimal for me, otherwise I'm carrying around too much weight or not able to hold my lines. Lots of people say "well, the bigger tires can give you more traction!", but more traction for what? I can make much more gnarly climbs on my FS "skinny-tire" bikes than my fatbike and climbing is more than just traction, it's momentum to clear obstacles. Then there's turns, I also experienced on my 29er "enduro" bike that when the mass gets too heavy or too far from the axle, you can't turn as fast at speed, so you might have "traction", but it doesn't help when centrifugal force drags your bike sideways through the turn, it overcomes the "traction".

    To me, there's a huge difference how a fatbike rides and feels on dirt vs. snow. I can't properly evaluate one on dirt if my purpose is to ride it on snow (and yep, the tires also make a huge difference). Many of the "bad things" don't carry over to the winter riding, because your speed is capped much lower, snow absorbs impact in addition to the tires, the tires don't self-steer, you can get away with even lower pressure in the soft conditions, and so on...
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  18. #18
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    You can tell it peaked by comment sections on Fatbike web-sites. Few short years ago, a new fattie or a thru axle fattie or a carbon one would generate 40 replies. Now a high end ti fat bike article hardly gets a single comment.

  19. #19
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    I think what fatbikes did was show people that fat tyres are better, but the optimum size for most of the year is around 3", ie fatbikes have prepared the ground for the plus bike.

    In fatbike season, there's nothing to match it, or if you ride beaches, bogs, or deserts.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    No but believe me , they will find ways to make them obsolete.
    There is already : 135, 170 , 177 , 190 , 197 , QR , TA just for the rear axle.
    You bike WILL be obsolete in 3/4 years.

    But the nice part is that you don't HAVE to drink that KoolAid and you can keep your bike and buy parts that will fit your bike.
    Most if not all quality fatbikes these days are 197mm TA. The older standards you reference are budget/lower tier bikes and offered less and less. Yes, if you buy a new bike with an old standards it will be obsolete soon. But the 197mm TA probably wills tick around for a while. I don't think the 217mm will gain much traction (there is a limit how wide a tire actually makes sense)
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  21. #21
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    And bubbles will be bubbles. There was a DH and freeride bubble. A 29er bubble. A 27.5 bubble. We have an enduro bubble right now. When these are valid and more than just marketing crap, things tend to settle down and well-sorted-out options are usually available. Honestly, during the bubble it can be the worst, with everyone throwing sh*t on the wall to see what sticks. You get all kinds of craziness mixed in with the good stuff...
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  22. #22
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    I see Salsaís kill of Bucksaw and Trekís kill of the Farley EX sooo short sighted. Someone will capitalize for sure, evidentially not those two manufacturers. Trail fat bikes, aka 4-season design and FS is the path to the masses. Sales will be slow at first but give it time and I would guess fat FS will be the largest market out there.

  23. #23
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    My guess: fat may be in torpor just now but will rise again when the plus hype dies.

  24. #24
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    Not dead, there's just not a vast enough difference between one fat bike and the next to stimulate more frequent purchases.

    Fat biking interests my biking friends just enough that they might consider buying one to ride in the winter months. Their lack of enthusiasm troubles me.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    No but believe me , they will find ways to make them obsolete.
    There is already : 135, 170 , 177 , 190 , 197 , QR , TA just for the rear axle.
    You bike WILL be obsolete in 3/4 years.

    But the nice part is that you don't HAVE to drink that KoolAid and you can keep your bike and buy parts that will fit your bike.
    If you look at what is being offered these days, there is definitely a trend to a common hub standard. I think human biomechanics is a limiting factor. If things get too wide it is uncomfortable to ride for a long time. There are a lot fewer ďdials to turnĒ from a design perspective. It is probably hard to differentiate as a bike manufacturer when the biggest impact to ride quality is the tire. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview#gid=0

    There are still a lot of bikes out there. This list models which wasnít even close to including everything.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Most if not all quality fatbikes these days are 197mm TA. The older standards you reference are budget/lower tier bikes and offered less and less. Yes, if you buy a new bike with an old standards it will be obsolete soon. But the 197mm TA probably wills tick around for a while. I don't think the 217mm will gain much traction (there is a limit how wide a tire actually makes sense)
    LeMere and Otso both make frames for 177 rear hubs. The Suzi Q is 177. You would be hard pressed to find better quality frames. 197 only serves to fit the widest of 5" tires. TA is probably the better indicator of quality of new frames.

  27. #27
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    We're just turning the corner into Fall here. The fatties will be coming back out to help folks deal with slick leaves and softening conditions. Once the snow flies, we'll be full-on.
    Maybe not a lot of new fatties this year, but still a lot 'em out there.

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  28. #28
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    Fads exist in all things. They come and go. I don't participate in the fad circus.

    I like the large tire bicycle design. I didn't buy a "fat bike" because fat bikes were cool. I bought one because I like bicycles with largish tires that give a comfortable ride, good handling, and excellent braking without needing the complexity and weight of suspension. I don't ride off road much at all, so that factor and traction on sand and snow were not at all in my mind. I also don't feel the need to ride fast all the time either, so speed was not an issue either.

    I like a comfortable machine that I can ride every day, to do whatever errands or play I want to do, and that is simple and easy to maintain. The carbon fat bike provides that along with the light weight that I like in any bicycle.

    One downside of the fat tire bike for me is that it's not particularly compatible with most public transit bicycle racks, limiting where I can take the bicycle with bus and tram. yeah, I can hang it off the back of my car, but then I have to manage two vehicles rather than just one. And I refuse to buy a truck simply to carry a bicycle somewhere ... either I'm going to ride it, or use public transit to tranport it to where I want to ride. For that reason, I'm considering a second bicycle with thinner tires that will work for transit purposes, probably a 2.5" max width tire.

  29. #29
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    Demand isn't going away, just not increasing as much. At first manufacturers didn't have enough models, now many have fat bikes. That is how the market works, if there is a demand it will be met. without having actual sales numbers the whole discussion is moot.

    3" plus bikes also may steal some sales, especially from FS fatbikes.

    Someone who buys a fatbike (or any bike) for fashion reasons is a fool. A fatbike is expensive and inefficient on pavement etc. But the same could be said about all the uncomfortable road bikes people bought to ride at 12 mph around their neighborhood just because they watched the TdF.

    Above arguments about unsuspended bikes having less development also makes them more a keeper. Less to wear out and the "new" model fatbike is not that much different as we see for FS bikes. So it is a better value proposition for keeping long term.
    FS bikes wear out, and there is great improvement in suspension and geometry every few years, so good reason to buy new FS bikes. not so for fatbikes. I see that as a good thing.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Most if not all quality fatbikes these days are 197mm TA.
    I have a recent Ventana El-Gordo with 170 QR rear end.
    I don't think it's a "Cheap frame".

    If it's not your 197 TA that will be obsolete in 4 years , it's gonna be something else.
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  31. #31
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    It just got moderately popular. Nothing wrong with that. The neighborhood kids shout "I like your bike" instead of shouting "what the heck is that?" when I ride to the trail so I think it's good. I've seen a few of those same kids on department store fat bikes, and yeah maybe they're not exactly using the bike for the intended purpose, BUT, if the appearance of the bike is a large motivational factor of why they get out the house, that is good.

    Heck, the existence of fat bikes as a known quantity gives me some newfound leeway and freedom of thought in terms of what kind of products are acceptable. Ideas that used to draw confused glances are now met with nods of understanding.

    I just hope that the following knowledge becomes common: if you're actually going to ride year round in sub-freezing temps, the clothing might cost more than your bike if you ride every day, depending on your preference for technical clothing vs traditional clothing. Some items from normal winter wear transfer well to winter cycling, while other items do not.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    The neighborhood kids shout "I like your bike" instead of shouting "what the heck is that?" when I ride to the trail so I think it's good. I've seen a few of those same kids on department store fat bikes, and yeah maybe they're not exactly using the bike for the intended purpose, BUT, if the appearance of the bike is a large motivational factor of why they get out the house, that is good.
    Bingo... and as the new crop of kids grow up with fat bikes as normal, many of them will want one as their "regular" trail bike IMO. My son exclusively rides a fatty now and a lot of his friends are considering one now as well.

  33. #33
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    Somebody said it already, the bubble burst.
    My only mtb currently is a fat bike, and I only use the fat wheels for snow. I run a set of 29Ē wheels the rest of the time, but itís a good one bike solution to my current off-road needs. (I may buy another squish at some point)

  34. #34
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    Not anywhere where the major land owners realize that if they're already allowing snow shoes... then fat bikes can co-exist. Here in the Canada's capital region...where we really only have two seasons...winter and construction... the largest land owner of crown park lands and forests, the National Capital Commission has fully embraced fat bikes in the Gatineau park and along the Ottawa River and Aviation parkways. They even added fat bike racing as an event during the annual Gatineau Loppet weekend.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatineau_Loppet

    The South March Highlands convervation forest (owned by the City of Ottawa) has been home to winter trail biking for more than a decade.

    Last year, ForŽt Larose Forest 30 mins drive east of Ottawa developed new mountain bike trails which are officially fat bike / snow shoes in the winter.

    Most folks I know locally who own ONLY a single mountain bike, own a fat bike. A lot of them are folks who come from an MX background, or who used to be skiers but injuries (usually knees) have put them in the position that its time to stop hurtling across snow on planks of wood/fiberglass/composites/etc. Much better to be on something with brakes.
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  35. #35
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    I will continue to believe that fatbikes are the best thing that ever happened to the bike industry. I'm riding with people I've never ridden with before and in Northern Minnesota it's becoming the all season bike. Out here in the Seattle/Tacoma area it's definitely a boutique thing, but I'm seeing more every year (still not a lot, but more).

    I like the fatness going down a trail, squishing through the mud, bouncing off the rocks and roots without tearing the bars out of my hands, the look of a front tire so massive that it dares anything and everything to challenge it. Narrow spaces between rocks and roots are no longer a concern, just ride through them. Lots of traction going through scree, and sand and leaves, and maybe not as fast, but a lot more

    If it wasn't for fat, I wouldn't be riding. I'll continue to spread the gospel. Full squish sitting in the shed collecting dust because it just wasn't as fun.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    It just got moderately popular. Nothing wrong with that. The neighborhood kids shout "I like your bike" instead of shouting "what the heck is that?" when I ride to the trail so I think it's good. I've seen a few of those same kids on department store fat bikes, and yeah maybe they're not exactly using the bike for the intended purpose, BUT, if the appearance of the bike is a large motivational factor of why they get out the house, that is good.
    In the winter time, the little kids doing the XC after-school ski-programs go nuts when they see a pack of us fat-bikers go by on the wide trails. To them it's the coolest thing ever. That doesn't happen in the summer time, but it's the whole being able to ride a bike on the snow thing that just fascinates them. It's pretty cool to see the reactions.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    https://ancillotti.com/images/fry-sx-big.jpg

    Sorry...link was intended to be at the bottom of post...and it does not come up. Go to the Ancillotti web site?

    Fat bikes dead?

    No...just wounded by their own frozen design parameters.

    As an early charter member of the baby boomer generation, my body does not welcome the long in long, low, and slack, that has become the present norm.

    Baby boomers represent a swelling in the population growth that is being passed over in favor of our grandkids, when it comes to design. IMO. Reguardless...everyone grows old...if given time.

    Less reach and more stack if you please. True...going one size down helps...sometimes. Can't help but believe that a frame forced to adapt to a purpose not intended, will prove to be less enjoyable than one designed correctly from the outset.

    Then there is the 'low' element. For beach riding, give me a high BB for stream crossings...perhaps zero drop? While snow does not hold my interest...some on here like deep powder; reduce the point of drag?

    A frame with a very high BB presents a design challenge when it comes to mounting and dismounting...I have seen a frame design that when used with a dropper post should work out well? (See link)

    Outside of Geoff Apps; has anyone else explored the high BB benefits?
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADDLE TRAMP View Post
    https://ancillotti.com/images/fry-sx-big.jpg

    Sorry...link was intended to be at the bottom of post...and it does not come up. Go to the Ancillotti web site?

    Fat bikes dead?

    No...just wounded by their own frozen design parameters.

    As an early charter member of the baby boomer generation, my body does not welcome the long in long, low, and slack, that has become the present norm.

    Baby boomers represent a swelling in the population growth that is being passed over in favor of our grandkids, when it comes to design. IMO. Reguardless...everyone grows old...if given time.

    Less reach and more stack if you please. True...going one size down helps...sometimes. Can't help but believe that a frame forced to adapt to a purpose not intended, will prove to be less enjoyable than one designed correctly from the outset.

    Then there is the 'low' element. For beach riding, give me a high BB for stream crossings...perhaps zero drop? While snow does not hold my interest...some on here like deep powder; reduce the point of drag?

    A frame with a very high BB presents a design challenge when it comes to mounting and dismounting...I have seen a frame design that when used with a dropper post should work out well? (See link)

    Outside of Geoff Apps; has anyone else explored the high BB benefits?
    .....I have a mental image of a fat recumbent bike

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADDLE TRAMP View Post

    A frame with a very high BB presents a design challenge when it comes to mounting and dismounting...I have seen a frame design that when used with a dropper post should work out well? (See link)

    Outside of Geoff Apps; has anyone else explored the high BB benefits?
    It's not just getting on the saddle, it's getting your leg swung over the frame, and with a high BB, everything else is going to be higher unless some radical ($$$) design is used. Getting on and off in soft conditions on a fat-bike is MUCH harder than on a normal bike because YOU, the rider, sink down in the conditions, while the bike stays high, so factors are compounded. That's why 9:zero:7 and other serious fatbikes already have a significant drop to the top-tube. Having experienced this many times in soft conditions, it's an important feature of a fatbike IMO. Fatbikes are intended to be ridden in soft conditions. Also, the tires are meant to compress down a lot more than a normal bike, so the "static" height will be even greater, once again requiring a low top tube/bike.

    The only low-bb issue I have is on my enduro bike, I occasionally clip a pedal when I'm not watching and let it sink down to the 6-o-clock position. With modern enduro BB heights, this means lots of pedal strikes, a lot more than before. Even when leaning the bike over on smooth ground this still tends to happen. I can live with it, but it's definitely at a point where there are serious issues going lower. This isn't the state of my fatbike or XC bike.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Bingo... and as the new crop of kids grow up with fat bikes as normal, many of them will want one as their "regular" trail bike IMO. My son exclusively rides a fatty now and a lot of his friends are considering one now as well.
    I actually get a lot of questions from older people....seniors, who express an interest because they correctly assume that it might be an all-around safer ride than a conventional bicycle.

    Probably the most frequent question is what the cost would be for getting a similar bike. I usually encourage them to consider it a good investment for staying active.

  41. #41
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    From my vantage point, it seems like this is a very regional issue. In areas that fatbikes didn't make a tonne of sense, then ya, the popularity is waning as the market got saturated pretty quickly from people who "just had to have one".

    In areas that have snow for 4 or 5 months straight and have the trails to support the riding, then I see the genre keep expanding with new users.

    I happen to live in one of those areas that have snow for 5 months, and there is no way the bubble is busting anytime soon. We are in a boom still up here! It has become my favourite part of the cycling season.

  42. #42
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    Nah, we are all packrafting now.
    ptarmigan hardcore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Nah, we are all packrafting now.
    That's been on my "Things to try" list for years.
    Saying that you "hate" or are an "unapologetic critic" of a bike company doesn't make you insightful or interesting.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Nah, we are all packrafting now.

    Totally jumped the shark. Sups are the new black.

  45. #45
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    Larose forest just released their summer time riding promotional video... notice all the SANDY Loamy type soil that makes up the ground in the trails...notice the 3rd bike in the video is a fat bike... that's a typically sight there in the non-snow months. They actually have a min tire width there of 1.9 for summer and 3.7 for winter (cyclo crossers should stay away, though monster cross / fat gravel tire bikes probably would do okay).

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    I jumped into fatbikes with the first Salsa Mukluk. It was definitely a fad then, but most people here in Ottawa Canada who have bought one have kept it and many have updated to newer models.

    I'm still riding my 2014 Ti Mukluk. I converted it to 177 TA rear with a dropout switch, picked up bike packing bags, added a Bluto and a dropper post. Building up a second set of 27.5+ wheels now for bike packing use. It's truly a 4 season bike here in Canada.

    My winter project is to assemble a DIY packraft from a kit. It adds a whole new dimension of fun in the summer! Bike up river to the pub, float back downstream to the trailhead!

    I lead the project to advocate to get fat biking introduced to Gatineau Park (Gatineau QC) and have helped organize the Gatineau Loppet fatbike race for the past 3 years.

  47. #47
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    I got into fatbikes with the 2nd year Mukluk (the red and black Mukluk 2), which I got in October 2011. I live in Montana and it totally changed winter for me as I hardly ever Nordic ski any more. While I prefer to ride a regular trail bike if there's no snow on the trails, we have a hoot of a time riding as far as the bootpack/fatbike track will allow us. There was a big jump in the number of fatbikes out there around winter of 2014/15. The numbers are no longer increasing, but I dont think many have quit fat bikes. We actually have groomed trails here in Missoula, but they are out of town a bit, limited in scope, and i my view, less fun than our ordinarily trails with a good boot/tire pack. All hail Bud and Lou!

  48. #48
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    Fatty for me is buy and keep a long period of time bike; as mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I do believe there is some innovation left. Not much but minute tweaks and if someone could get a FS to weight a lot less (thinking Farley EX beast!) they could be in business.

    I think Trek saw it as a waste and turned the emphasis to the Stashe FS and just might be onto the right compromise for everything BUT snow/sand. Interesting to see if others follow. Sad part of it is that means few changes to Farley and less (maybe none) R&D.
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  49. #49
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    I have a buddy who won't spend $300+ on studded fat bike tires. He won't ride when it's icy because it is dangerous. He just spent over $700 on china carbon wheels for his gravel bike. They will make no real difference, but he doesn't bat an eye at throwing $$$ away on stuff like that. Won't expand his riding days by 'wasting' any on studded tires haha.

    For many of us - fat bikes make it possible to ride whenever we want. A lot of people don't want that though, they just want to buy shiny parts and bitch about the weather...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by letitsnow View Post
    I have a buddy who won't spend $300+ on studded fat bike tires. He won't ride when it's icy because it is dangerous. He just spent over $700 on china carbon wheels for his gravel bike. They will make no real difference, but he doesn't bat an eye at throwing $$$ away on stuff like that. Won't expand his riding days by 'wasting' any on studded tires haha.

    For many of us - fat bikes make it possible to ride whenever we want. A lot of people don't want that though, they just want to buy shiny parts and bitch about the weather...
    I just had the opposite experience, buddy at work has watched me ride in during winter, borrowed my bike for a few days, put down the money and has a sweet rig coming. Came and told he got studded D4s on it, I said, naw, you want D5s, there's no downside and you have to get them now because they'll get hard to get in a few weeks. It's one of the few parts that I can justify every penny I paid. He changed the D4s for D5s (what I run). He's going to love it and is super stoked. He went out and test rode a bunch of different ones over the last few weeks and didn't really use me for any input except before that. He ended up with a 9:zero:7 alloy ride with a nice build.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  51. #51
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    I'm with the bubble has burst. And they arent for everyone. But if you live where fat tires mean the difference between riding and not for part of the year you find ALOT of them.

    For me the versatitly of the frame design is really nice. I have my full fat and I built 29er+ wheel set with more pavement friendly tires during warm months. Likely be down to one bike, my fat bike here soon (start saving/acquiring parts to finally go FS bike in b+ flavor). It wont get replaced until the frame finally fails or I decide I want a newer fat bike.

    And fat bikes are EVERYWHERE here. Had probably the largest single fat bike group outside of Alaska years before the bubble began. One of their old bikes, 2011 mukluk became my fat bike.

    That's the big thing about a fat bike too, simplicity. No suspension so just properly service drivetrain and it lasts practically forever.

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  52. #52
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    One thing I tell people that come up here that want to get a bike and are at least semi-curious is the fact that a fatbike will work on trails in the summer and winter.

    A snowboard just doesn't go downhill well in the summer on the slope, no matter how hard you try. Fatbike may not be optimal for other summer terrain, but it will still work just fine. Skis work like crap on the roots.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADDLE TRAMP View Post
    https://ancillotti.com/images/fry-sx-big.jpg

    Sorry...link was intended to be at the bottom of post...and it does not come up. Go to the Ancillotti web site?

    Fat bikes dead?

    No...just wounded by their own frozen design parameters.

    As an early charter member of the baby boomer generation, my body does not welcome the long in long, low, and slack, that has become the present norm.

    Baby boomers represent a swelling in the population growth that is being passed over in favor of our grandkids, when it comes to design. IMO. Reguardless...everyone grows old...if given time.

    Less reach and more stack if you please. True...going one size down helps...sometimes. Can't help but believe that a frame forced to adapt to a purpose not intended, will prove to be less enjoyable than one designed correctly from the outset.
    Try one of the Northrock or Momentum branded frames made by Giant then as they're shorter top tube / more stack height than other brands.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    One thing I tell people that come up here that want to get a bike and are at least semi-curious is the fact that a fatbike will work on trails in the summer and winter.

    A snowboard just doesn't go downhill well in the summer on the slope, no matter how hard you try. Fatbike may not be optimal for other summer terrain, but it will still work just fine. Skis work like crap on the roots.
    This guy doesnít think so...

    https://youtu.be/FMqADdsVmwQ

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    This guy doesnít think so...

    https://youtu.be/FMqADdsVmwQ
    Yeah, I'd like to see anyone try that themselves
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  56. #56
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    Just got my MBS Growler this summer- have yet to find a reason to go back. It's at work with me now and already been test ridden and admired by many- some want to buy one.

  57. #57
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    The Fat is dead.
    The Fat will never die.
    Manufacturers and retailers grab $$.
    In some areas the novelty will wear off.
    Up north there is a need so here it is safe.

  58. #58
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    This thread is killing me as I wait for my new 2018 Trek Farley Ex 8 to get out of the shop. Wednesday can not get here fast enough! I am abusing my son's GBMC and I don;t think he appreciates me jumping it, lol.

  59. #59
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    Bubble, but itís all season the preseason lull.

    Iíd still be riding one if I hadnít moved south.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADDLE TRAMP View Post
    ...Can't help but believe that a frame forced to adapt to a purpose not intended, will prove to be less enjoyable than one designed correctly from the outset...
    I think that hits the nail on the head.

    A lot of the new fatbikes have made a feature of having "modern" geometry, which basically means slack HAs. I can see the advantages of this for telescopic forks and downhill riding,and no doubt this makes them great good weather trail bikes.

    However I am really dubious about it having any benefit when you're on snow or soft going, or trying to climb in those conditions. The previous generations of fatbikes had steep head angles and seemed to me to be more suited to fatbike riding conditions where the advantages of a geometry that works well in slow outweighs all other considerations.

    One of the worthwhile "new" features may be the ability to take a dropper post. Getting started again when bogged down can get quite tricky, so a low seat height could be an advantage. Alternatively, why not drop the top tube altogether and just have a big beam from headtube to BB like a woman's bike for easy mounting in soft conditions? (I'd miss a top tube because I use it for control in some instances, but I'm sure I'd adapt).

    I would be interested to read a comparison between a modern suspended slack HA fatbike and an old school one in proper fatbike conditions. Just need to have the same wheel dimensions. Sounds like a job for Mikesee.
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  61. #61
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    Every time i read "Fatbikes are dead", I go out to the garage and look at the four fatty's and smile, smile, smile......

  62. #62
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    Fat is certainly not dead on Long Island. I see plenty of em.
    One of my friends just built his first fatty, another is building his second, there are four at my house, I'm building two more, one for a friend and one loaner.
    As soon as the temperature starts dropping other people will start getting excited about them again.
    I like turtles

  63. #63
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    The idea of having a fat bike for everyday riding is probably dead. That was a brief fad that came and went. Fat biking will continue to be popular where it snows, plain and simple.
    Where I live it snows a ton so almost half the year is prime for fat biking. Plenty of trails around here are grooming for fat biking so I can't see fat biking becoming less popular here.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  64. #64
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    Let it die a little. Iíd like to see the prices on tires and such go down a little.


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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    The idea of having a fat bike for everyday riding is probably dead. That was a brief fad that came and went. Fat biking will continue to be popular where it snows, plain and simple.
    Where I live it snows a ton so almost half the year is prime for fat biking. Plenty of trails around here are grooming for fat biking so I can't see fat biking becoming less popular here.

    LOL.

    Different strokes though. Recently just went back to fat as my full-time MTB. Went Fat > Rigid 29er > Added a fork to the 29er > now back to Fat. I do live in WI, so the fat bike will see action in the winter too.
    it's a challenge some of us are ultimately worthy of.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mehlertmj View Post
    Let it die a little. Iíd like to see the prices on tires and such go down a little.
    If there is less demand, the fatties become more niche and prices will go up, not the other way around. Sure, in the short term if supply is high and demand low then retailers will discount the stock to clear the shelves. However, the next time the shop/retailer places an order those goods will be in smaller supply, will have cost more to manufacture, and that will translate to a higher cost for the consumer.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way View Post
    Every time i read "Fatbikes are dead", I go out to the garage and look at the four fatty's and smile, smile, smile, smile......
    Fify
    What a perfect waste of time

  68. #68
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    Nice! I need more buddies like that.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Pitted View Post
    I got the fatbike bug in 2015.
    2015? You held out for a good long time!

    Bicycles are tools. Hype and media frenzy aside people gravitate to the tools that make the most sense for what and how they ride. Fatbikes are amazing at some bike missions and work amazing for some people. They are not the ULTIMATE SOLUTION to every biking situation.

    Now that the hype machine has moved onto uber slack 29ers with low offset forks fatbiking is settling into a healthy steady state. Nothing wrong with that even if they are not on the cover of every magazine and every website all the time.

    I don't have a fatbike anymore [kept my 29+] because I moved to a place where it's not the best tool for the job. But, from the outside it looks like there are plenty of great options for folks that want to roll a fatty.

    Personally I enjoy the pre-hype and post-frenzy periods in whatever bike niche I participate in more than the peak-freakout phase. The good news is that that peak-freakout never lasts more than a year or two and usually there are some sweet clearance sales on the backside of it.
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  70. #70
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    I have been fat most of my life and riding fat for the last 5 years. I still love the fat bike - it lives in June Lake where it can explore and ride in the snow. I ride a 29+ for fun and zig zagging around Southern CA. The Pugs (who still uses 135 hubs) will be around for many years and as long as there are fat tires - it will roll on.. When the last Bud is made - I will put a pair of whatever wheels are in stock and ride it some more.

    It just keeps rolling (over anything with the 22X41 low gear it has!).
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  71. #71
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    I was late to the game and only got back to riding a year and a half ago. Bought FS and then shortly after a fat for beach and snow. Fat is definitely more fun and Strava suggests I'm just as quick on it when I try.

    I'll grab the FS 29er when riding with others not knowing what trails I'll ride that day, but when riding alone I always take the fat because I think it is just more fun. I've added a dropper and Mastodon to enjoy it even more year round.

    If forced to go to one bike, I'd keep the fat bike for New England.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepRage View Post
    ...If forced to go to one bike, I'd keep the fat bike for New England.
    +eleventy billion

  73. #73
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    I currently have two fat bikes and a Surly Krampus. My son has a fat bike currently sporting 29+ wheels and my wife has a newly acquired fat bike that my son outgrew. The only skinny tire bike in my home at the moment is my wife's Salsa Spearfish and that is gathering dust.
    I like turtles

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepRage View Post
    If forced to go to one bike, I'd keep the fat bike for New England.
    I've said the same in the past, though I'm loving my "uber slack 29er with low offset fork" these days. It would be hard to live without here in northern New England.
    I will always have a fatbike in the quiver. I'm on my second one- rigid, dropper, studs. It'll get some good use in the years to come, but probably won't get replaced for a good long time.

  75. #75
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    Fat bikes are not dead, but have undergone a "market correction". Not everyone needs one, and the super-sizing of tires and rims only appeals to certain riders. Plus-size tires work for much of what fat bikes can do with fewer penalties. But I still am looking forward to my 7th winter on my Pugs.
    "Wait- I am confused" - SDMTB'er

  76. #76
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    Just mounted my D5s....can't wait for snow!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  77. #77
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    I am a firm believer in the fatbike but they aren't for everyone. I wish that mine wasn't already obsolete (salsa beargrease alloy with QRs), but I ride the sh*t out of it everywhere. As long as enough people buy them though, they don't go away.

  78. #78
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    Canít remember the last time I saw a fat bike, on a trail or in a shop, but then we donít get snow for that stays around for longer than a day or so

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Just mounted my D5s....can't wait for snow!
    Wow , really? The snow isn't even down the mountains yet. Or maybe I'm just not excited enough!
    Saying that you "hate" or are an "unapologetic critic" of a bike company doesn't make you insightful or interesting.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Prototype View Post
    Wow , really? The snow isn't even down the mountains yet. Or maybe I'm just not excited enough!
    extra wheelset
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    extra wheelset
    Ah , ok. Well played sir!

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Prototype View Post
    Ah , ok. Well played sir!
    Then when the snow hits, I just have to dump some sealant in and put the wheels in the bike and head out!

    I'm really waiting on Fyxation to send me some Johnny 5s, but I have doubts whether that will happen before the first snow.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post

    One of the worthwhile "new" features may be the ability to take a dropper post. Getting started again when bogged down can get quite tricky, so a low seat height could be an advantage. Alternatively, why not drop the top tube altogether and just have a big beam from headtube to BB like a woman's bike for easy mounting in soft conditions?
    Another try...www.ancillotti.com

    Works this time!

    Check out the FRY and DHY models...they have a double down tube and lack a proper top tube with the seat tube rising off the upper down tube and not off the BB directly.

    Does anyone confuse this with a women's bike...even in full rigid form?
    "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway" John Wayne

  84. #84
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    Fat is not dead in Alaska, but the bubble has burst. I think the average person thinks it would be fun to ride bikes in the middle of winter. And then reality sets in. I haven't seen as many bikes out on the trails over past two winters. That's just my observation, as I do not have any data to back that up. I'm not complaining, the double wide/single track trails around Anchorage in the winter are awesome.

  85. #85
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    I think Fat is alive and still slowly growing here in Ontario Canada. I went to a local bike fall clearance expo and I was not the only one leaving with a new fatbike. I got some multipurpose ski stuff and I am looking forward to hitting the snow. It's a blast on trails so far. I think it came out way to fast and furious to start and people weren't educated which led to a lot of disappoint and fast resales. I know I'm in for slow and fun times ahead

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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fisherk View Post
    Fat is not dead in Alaska, but the bubble has burst. I think the average person thinks it would be fun to ride bikes in the middle of winter. And then reality sets in. I haven't seen as many bikes out on the trails over past two winters. That's just my observation, as I do not have any data to back that up. I'm not complaining, the double wide/single track trails around Anchorage in the winter are awesome.
    Where are you riding? The trails out to the glaciers were like paved freeways from so many riders last winter.
    Latitude 61

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You're seeing refinement happen. And it's good.
    Hmm... refinement to the current point of essentially no new development, though...

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Hmm... refinement to the current point of essentially no new development, though...
    Workin' on it.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (officialy in 2016, functionally in 2020).

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Workin' on it.
    Nice!
    I'm likely getting back into the (complete) bike design side of the bike biz again, so I'll see what I can do . If involved with a major brand, that could have some real impact vs. for example tire makers.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    I sold my fat bike in 2016 when I moved from AK to AZ. Don't miss it one bit. I always viewed my fatty as a snow/sand bike. I could find a use for one here in AZ, but really wouldnt use it that much. If I moved north again, I would buy another one in a heartbeat and sell my FS.
    I bought mine for all trail use here in AZ and never looked back. It's amazing in sand, but I enjoy it so much more than any other bike I've owned (26 ht, 26 fs, 27.5 ht) that it is my go-to bike for anything off-road now.
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  91. #91
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    I hope fat isn't dead I just bought my first fat bike last week. I've been eyeing them for a while and have test rode a bunch but never pulled the trigger on one. I found a great deal on a bike and couldn't pass it up. It's too early for me to say if I'll give up my other bikes and ride fat year round, but I don't see that happening. Like everything they will have their place. The hype may have slipped away but for people who want them and use them they will stick around.

    ...But I also ride my 26 inch wheel bike more than anything else so don't listen to me. I just ride what I like and have fun on.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Where are you riding? The trails out to the glaciers were like paved freeways from so many riders last winter.
    I spend most of my time in North Bicentennial Park, but also ride Kincaid and Hillside STA, Middlefork, stuff around Anchorage. Out of town I'll ride Resurrection and portions of the Iditarod trail, and Talkeetna when conditions are good. When the crust sets up in the early spring I'll try to get out to Skookum, Portage, Knik, and Spencer glaciers. Also Turnagain Pass for crust rides.

    Yeah, the word got out about the crust riding, that I will agree with. I helped a few riders find their way out to Skookum last winter. It was their first crust ride. But in general, other than the hard core riders, I don't think there are as many recreational riders out as compared to say 3-4 years ago when I saw an explosion in those numbers. Like I said, just my observation, and thus why I think the fat bubble has burst.

  93. #93
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    I think the lack of fork options also limits the growth of fat bikes as a one-bike solution. Imagine Fox 34 legs pressed into a crown that would accommodate a fat tire. It seems like it would be simple to do, but until then we only have the Bluto, Wren and Mastodon as compromises.
    "Wait- I am confused" - SDMTB'er

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Pitted View Post
    I got the fatbike bug in 2015. If you had told me then that 75% of my riding would be on the fat Iíd have said youíre crazy. I have a nice fs, but on anything other than perfect trail, the combo of mega grip and right now power transfer make the fatty the clear choice.

    Iím not concerned with what other riders spend their money on, but three years ago, the industry was unable to keep up with demand for all things fat. Lately I see very little product development going on and am starting to wonder if fatbikes will even maintain what market share they currently have.

    So so what say you, mtbr Illuminati? Fat bikes; evolutionary dead end or cyclingís best kept secret?
    No doubt sales and demand will follow the ebb or flow but I think at the very least, they are the right tool for the job in many cases. Where one lives and rides and what season etc....
    People liked the look of my bike when I first got it because plus wasn't big in my area and I truly think many just liked the look of the bike. I think a big part of that happened with fat as well. Many of those buyers were struck by a cool and different look but maybe didn't stay on a fat for the long term or maybe it wasn't justified as the right tool for them.

    In your case, it may not matter because;

    "I got the fatbike bug in 2015. If you had told me then that 75% of my riding would be on the fat Iíd have said youíre crazy. I have a nice fs, but on anything other than perfect trail, the combo of mega grip and right now power transfer make the fatty the clear choice.

    Iím not concerned with what other riders spend their money on
    "

    I think fat will be around in reasonable selection for a long (enough) time.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  95. #95
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    Fat bikes were road riding in the Monday Night Football Halftime show intro of course they are still alive and kicking!
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  96. #96
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    Is fat dead?

    No , it just smells funny



    With 6 months on snow on the ground , Fat is far from dead around here.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  97. #97
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    No fat is not dead,

    but I miss progression in geometry and frame design!

    I would buy a new fat bike if there would be something available with more modern Geometry. I'm 6'3"/190cm tall and there are only two longer Fat bikes in existence than my Canyon Dude in Large (except custom Bikes)

    The Pole Taiga and the Kona Wozo.

    For me on the Pole the BB is too wide and 450 CS would be long enough. On the Kona the CS are too short in my opinion and the BB is too wide for its rear axle.

    This rear axle / BB thing is a real mess too. Ideally there would be only the following two combinations:

    100mm BB (or PF 121 if need be) & 197mm Axle (as is on my Dude)
    83mm BB & 177mm Axle (Otso Voytek & RM Suzi Q)

    Combo one would be the more snow and sand oriented bike. Combination two could be the more trail oriented flavour with the option to run 29x3" in the summer. Slacker head angles would not hurt there either.

    If my Dude breaks I would by a Wozo or Taiga, but there is no bike I would like to upgrade to and this is the real problem of the "Fat Bike Industry" right now.

  98. #98
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    I would also like to see some other 83mm BB offerings, but the issue is chainline which maxes out the tire size at 4 and no more really. I would like to see an alu or steel Otso but that's also doubtful to happen.

    Someday Walt, someday...
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by firevsh2o View Post
    ...Combo one would be the more snow and sand oriented bike. Combination two could be the more trail oriented flavour with the option to run 29x3" in the summer. Slacker head angles would not hurt there either...
    Can you define what advantage you see a slacker head angle giving you on a snow or sand bike?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Can you define what advantage you see a slacker head angle giving you on a snow or sand bike?

    Yep, sure can...

    But then I think you knew that, and weren't asking me...

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    I think the lack of fork options also limits the growth of fat bikes as a one-bike solution. Imagine Fox 34 legs pressed into a crown that would accommodate a fat tire. It seems like it would be simple to do, but until then we only have the Bluto, Wren and Mastodon as compromises.
    I'm curious, what's 'a compromise' about the Mastodon? I'm 240lbs, ride downhill decently fast, and I love the thing on snow or dirt. Works great at -25 deg C and generally makes me pretty darn happy. Never ridden a Wren and wasn't overly impressed by the Bluto (but RockShox does get kudos for making a fat fork).

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanmoreBruce View Post
    I'm curious, what's 'a compromise' about the Mastodon? I'm 240lbs, ride downhill decently fast, and I love the thing on snow or dirt. Works great at -25 deg C and generally makes me pretty darn happy. Never ridden a Wren and wasn't overly impressed by the Bluto (but RockShox does get kudos for making a fat fork).
    The Mastodon weighs a lot and doesn't clear some frames.

    I know that's an issue to many (myself included) and i'm not a lightweight by any means.

    Just to weigh in on the topic at hand, I ride on snow therefore I'll likely always have a fatbike.

    With that being said, i have tried the Fatbike as all season bike for the past 4-5 years and it just didn't work for me. It works great as an XC bike but not so much as a trail bike IMHO. That combined with being 45 years old...my body can't take the beating.

    I have since just picked up a used Trance Advanced for rowdier trail use and I'm loving it.

    I think i should have stuck with a 29'er though, but that's a discussion for another thread.
    Mike
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  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Can you define what advantage you see a slacker head angle giving you on a snow or sand bike?
    No. He can't.
    Physically impossible.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yep, sure can...

    But then I think you knew that, and weren't asking me...
    I have some opinions on geometry, but things like the advent of reliable dropper posts mean the rider's CoG can be far more mobile, and that has a considerable effect on the way trail inputs into the steering are affected.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I have some opinions on geometry, but things like the advent of reliable dropper posts mean the rider's CoG can be far more mobile, and that has a considerable effect on the way trail inputs into the steering are affected.

    Agreed completely -- but more from the perspective of BB height than anything else.

    Much more effective to drop the saddle 4 or 5" to lower CoG than to have a 1/4" lower BB and smack pedals/cram feet into any/every immovable object along the way.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Agreed completely -- but more from the perspective of BB height than anything else.

    Much more effective to drop the saddle 4 or 5" to lower CoG than to have a 1/4" lower BB and smack pedals/cram feet into any/every immovable object along the way.
    It is clear.
    They stopped designing bikes.
    The new way is cell phones on wheels.
    Everything is designed to fail.
    - droppers
    - 12 speeds with loss of teeth the first month
    - low BB to bang and break
    - assisted Ebikes
    I will not buy new shit!

  107. #107
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    Outdated roadie geometry is the biggest downfall of today's fatties.
    The only factory fatbike I would consider today, is the Pole Taiga, but the BB is too wide for me to really want to pull the trigger.
    I want a fatbike with a little bit longer chain stays and a slacker head angle, so that the weight balance is more neutral and more stability at high speed, we do have some gnarly downhill bits where I ride in the winter.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    The only factory fatbike I would consider today, is the Pole Taiga, but the BB is too wide for me to really want to pull the trigger.
    Pole has some intriguing numbers for HTA, STA and reach. That chain stay length tho: 470mm. A whomping 2 inches longer than the Wozo but since you said you like the longer length maybe it'd work for you (outside of the 120mm threaded BB)..horses for courses. Pole is a brand I keep my eye on - maybe their next iteration will match up for you.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Pole has some intriguing numbers for HTA, STA and reach. That chain stay length tho: 470mm. A whomping 2 inches longer than the Wozo but since you said you like the longer length maybe it'd work for you (outside of the 120mm threaded BB)..horses for courses. Pole is a brand I keep my eye on - maybe their next iteration will match up for you.
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.

  110. #110
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    Well, things sure have not improved since we talked last time....
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fat...t-1022168.html

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    It's the old horses for courses discussion.

    A lot of riders do most of their riding on artificial trails designed for mtbs. As each technological "improvement" in the bikes makes the trail feel tamer, then trails get modified to make them more "exciting" to counter it.

    I don't usually ride artificial trails, but at the weekend I was riding at the World Championship 24 Hour Solos and so had a good close up look at what was working best in the hands of the world's elite. It looked to me the ideal bike needed to turn really fast, pivot around its real wheel and have full suspension to cope with air. Shortish chainstays seemed to be working for those riders.

    My opinion is that the descents on the course would have passed as a DH course a generation or so ago. I talked to quite a few of the riders and the consensus was it was the toughest course they had ridden.

    When I last rode that event 4 years ago, I was on a rigid singlespeed and while it was tough there was always a line somewhere. This time I was rigid again but the course had been "improved" and some of the turns felt too tight for my bike which is set up more for mountain trails than artificial ones (relatively long chainstays).

    However I did wonder if a dropper post would have helped because it would have allowed me a wider range of body positions, ie is CoG placement more important than geometry?

    I suppose what will become obvious is a clear distinction between bikes designed for racing on artificial courses and those designed for hauling around an actual mountain.

    If I do this event again I'll probably follow suit and ride a short chainstay suspension bike, but that's not what I'd choose for general use because almost of my riding is natural and I prefer longer chainstays for steep climbs as well as comfort.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    Interesting take I guess. I've ridden a lot of bikes over many decades. Some have been really long, some have been short. There are features of both and everything in-between. Know your geometry and ride qualities you are seeking. On my Wozo, the geometry is very well matched to what I'm looking for - the biggest influences of that are the long front center and short stays - accentuates the playful-style and very active maneuverability I emphasis in my ride. Someone else may put a priority on other traits - totally up to you.

    I love the old Moto footage. Those bikes are a far cry from my 2019 TPI 300 but just as fun.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    Riders drove the move to shorter stays....and some companies went kicking and screaming, but itís become clear that the market demanded those short stays and bikes without them wonít sell....because almost everyone prefers them, within reason.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Riders drove the move to shorter stays....and some companies went kicking and screaming, but itís become clear that the market demanded those short stays and bikes without them wonít sell....because almost everyone prefers them, within reason.
    Kind of short board / long board for surfers

  115. #115
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    Did you see the opening MTBR article this week?

    Plus is dead!

  116. #116
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    Bla, Bla, Bla ! ! !
    Some people are paid to talk.
    Some people are paid to write.
    They pick a tittle to sell $ $ $
    they fill in lines.
    They might beleive it
    they might not
    Probably not worth our time.

  117. #117
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    Not dead, but certainly leveled off. I got my first fattie (a grey Pugs) in 2010. I'd been riding MTB regularly for 20+ years, and have owned many bikes. The fatbike was by far the biggest change in the actual riding experience in my lifetime. Pretty much every other new bike I've owned could be described as being only incrementally different from previous bikes. I'll totally admit to being all in on the novelty factor. Yeah, I was the guy who wouldn't shut up about my fatbike. I loved my Pugs, but immediately replaced it with a semi custom Ti fatbike from (the now defunct) Twenty2 Cycles. It's 7 years old now, but is still my go-to ride. It's truly old school geo with a 70 degree HTA, 450mm A/C rigid fork and longish chainstays. I often swap in a set of 27.5x3" wheels. I never feel like the geometry is a limiting factor. It's plenty light (24lbs in fat mode, 21.5lbs in mid-fat mode), so it's nimble, but the traction and stability from the bigger tires provide most of what a modern geometry bike offers. For reference, I also ride a Yeti SB5+, which is nice and all, but when I'm riding it, it feels like the bike is doing most of the work, and it sort of takes some of the fun out of it for me. I've ridden both bikes back-to-back on the same trails on the same day, and while the Yeti is certainly the better "tool", the Twenty2 is just more fun.

    I don't care much that things have leveled off because I'm pretty happy with my bike as it sits. I've upgraded it plenty over the years - carbon wheels, tubeless, 1x11, etc. The biggest bummer would be if I can't get tires or other fat-specific parts. Despite the advances in tire tech and choices, there's still a lot of room for improvement in that department, IMO.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    I found it amusing that all of these rear-heavy (short chainstay) bikes nosed up on the jump at 0:50 (except for one).

    Considering all the nose-heavy bikes we're seeing in the human powered bicycle industry, I think a rear-heavy bike is a nice change, though I'd prefer the elusive balanced one.

    I think the problem is that many people function on simplified logic. Shorten the chainstay and discover it became better, so keep shortening it until it stops becoming better. Or widen the bars and find it's better (with a short stem), keep widening it until it stops becoming better. This pattern of incremental improvement resonates with the mainstream. How long before Transition's SBG makes it mainstream? I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into something like that shortboard vs longboard analogy, becoming as long or longer than Pole's offerings... xD

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    ...but the traction and stability from the bigger tires provide most of what a modern geometry bike offers.
    It's not really modern geometry, it's straight out of the 1920s when there was a fashion for slack HAs. Although there were good reasons for it back then and it was hailed as "modern", they were nothing to do with handling. The fashion didn't last long, and the bikes were horribly floppy things if you wanted to go up a steep hill.

    Give it a few years and people riding rigid forks will be looking at those "modern geometry" bikes with the same enthusiasm they have for the very short canti braked mtbs of the early 90s.

    There are good reasons for slack if you are running a telescopic fork, and I expect they'll find that around 64ļ is about right to compensate for the implicit design deficiencies of the telescopic fork, and that's a pretty ancient rule of thumb.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  120. #120
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    "I'd been riding MTB regularly for 20+ years, and have owned many bikes. The fatbike was by far the biggest change in the actual riding experience in my lifetime. Pretty much every other new bike I've owned could be described as being only incrementally different from previous bikes. I'll totally admit to being all in on the novelty factor. Yeah, I was the guy who wouldn't shut up about my fatbike. I loved my Pugs"

    ^ this right here is pretty close to my experience, although I was later to the fat bike party. I had been riding an MTB since '86 and offroad for longer than that. The Pugs I bought (or the one O hired for a weekend first of all) just reminded me of the freedom to explore that the first MTB gave me. I'd see a trail and just go follow. Sure I could have done that on my MTB but I had got away from that type of riding, where you just ride.

    Do I think the bubble has burst? Here in the UK it certainly seems to have changed. Many that jad them seem to have sold them and bought plus or gravel bikes. Others bought them as 'adventure' bikes but then added all the trail mtb stuff like sus forks and dropper posts but often returned to an MTB for their riding, especially at trail centres.

    The UK fat bike forum closed down, although I am told there is a FB group but I don't use FB.

    I still ride my Pugs regularly. It still puts a huge smile on my face and I am still asked about it all the time.

    I look forward to seeing the GFBD pics to prove there are still plenty flying the fat flag though!

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Horse View Post
    I actually get a lot of questions from older people....seniors, who express an interest because they correctly assume that it might be an all-around safer ride than a conventional bicycle.

    Probably the most frequent question is what the cost would be for getting a similar bike. I usually encourage them to consider it a good investment for staying active.
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee jones View Post
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.
    Now that is just plain awesome and is what biking (any kind of biking) is all about.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee jones View Post
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.
    BJ you can rest. I live in Montreal(Quebec) and here in the news it is all about winter commuting on a bike and the expansion of FatBike for the family and more places open trails, groom and offer rentals. Maybe some manufacturers will stop but enough will build them for decades. The only question is will you see some in a shop near you. Some might have to mail order but they will be available. I am 61 and i might get one at 100 with a bit of luck.

  124. #124
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    Fat is far from dead look at all the new tires this year alone. Where I live its getting bigger ever year. The only thing I have noticed is frame design has settled for now. Iím completely sold on Fat enjoy

  125. #125
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    When I got my Fatie in 2016 I felt late to the party, but selection was still scarce and I visited a lot of dealers until I finally settled on my built. Now I'm seeing people looking and writing about new/trend etc. movements but the reality is (in the East End of Long Island, NY) that I now see more fat bikes than ever before. The last couple of winters I nearly never saw a track on the sand in the winter and rarely in the summer. Today (cool, rainy and January!!), I saw 2 faties out and about (One S-works at that). So I think its more alive than ever....

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    keeping mine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post

    I just hope that the following knowledge becomes common: if you're actually going to ride year round in sub-freezing temps, the clothing might cost more than your bike if you ride every day, depending on your preference for technical clothing vs traditional clothing. Some items from normal winter wear transfer well to winter cycling, while other items do not.

    Thats hilarious I often think of this fact, I ride 6 days a week year round and the gore clothes and 45nrth shoes I wear when I go out biking in the snow easily cost as much as my bike if not more! I find that fact alone funny, but to be able to ride comfortably the clothing is just as important as the bike itself in technology, at least thats what Ive come to conclude, I could be wrong.

  128. #128
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    Why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.

  129. #129
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    I would say No based upon the interest I get whenever my son and I ride our fatbikes on local trails. At least one or two people per ride on popular trails will stop and chat us up about our bikes.

    I think there is a lot of misconception about the capabilities of a fatbike in the larger mountain biking community. Yeah, they are a *bit* heavier, but not actually that much. The new OEM and aftermarket parts can turn them into reasonable climbing machines. The new geometry and suspension allows for moderate enduro style riding. One of the things I like the best is the wider footprint when riding on wet'ish trails. While normal sized tires leave a deep rut, I can ride over the top of them and smooth them out.

    I haven't even touched on the winter snow/ice riding capabilities.
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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.
    Good advice. On the flip side, if things are "dying" the availability of some things may well be affected along with the prices for such things. It's not a terrible question to ask, but could perhaps be worded better.

    Fat is not dead, long live the FAT!
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  131. #131
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    Not dead!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Is fat dead?-img_20181201_210948_314.jpg  

    Last edited by Saskrider; 01-09-2019 at 12:52 PM.

  132. #132
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    Is fat dead ?
    Nah .... it just smells funny.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskrider View Post
    Its winter and snows where i live 7+ months a year. Local shops sell truck loads of fat bike and are full of fat bikes tires accessories winter riding gear etc. Shops even rent fat bikes.

    We have amazing tech single track right downtown along the river and even groomed singletrack 5 minute drive from downtown.

    When my "xc race" bike gets boring its soo rad to jump on the fatbike, gives a whole new perspective to the trails and how you can ride them.

    Not dead where I'm from in Canada that's forsure

    Is fat dead?-img_20181201_210948_314.jpg
    where's that?

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpabt1 View Post
    why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.
    but why aren't millenials buying homes??

    The answer may shock you

    bike shops hate him!
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  135. #135
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    Too utilitarian for me. I love them. I still prefer to have multiple bikes though.

    Is fat dead?-img_1747.jpgIs fat dead?-img_3826.jpg

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    It's not really modern geometry, it's straight out of the 1920s when there was a fashion for slack HAs. Although there were good reasons for it back then and it was hailed as "modern", they were nothing to do with handling. The fashion didn't last long, and the bikes were horribly floppy things if you wanted to go up a steep hill.

    Give it a few years and people riding rigid forks will be looking at those "modern geometry" bikes with the same enthusiasm they have for the very short canti braked mtbs of the early 90s.

    There are good reasons for slack if you are running a telescopic fork, and I expect they'll find that around 64ļ is about right to compensate for the implicit design deficiencies of the telescopic fork, and that's a pretty ancient rule of thumb.

    As you've no doubt come to realize many times over the years, what works for you on the off-the-beaten path rides you prefer is not what the majority of people are doing with their bikes.

    That said, I spend most of my time off the beaten path too. And I don't want anything to do with the geometry that you prefer. Been there and done that ~20 years ago.

    The world comes in color now, although you're welcome to keep seeing it in sepia tones...

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    Name:  Fat.jpg
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    This question was answered long ago. It depends if you are a believer in Fat...or a Fatheist.

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    Anybody find it odd Surly hasn't updated their landing page blog in almost 2 months? They use to post something about once a week.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    Anybody find it odd Surly hasn't updated their landing page blog in almost 2 months? They use to post something about once a week.
    Is Surly dead?

    @Surly r u ded? If not male me a ict zise medium plz
    it's a challenge some of us are ultimately worthy of.

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    I just shopped around for my second Specialized Fatboy in Seattle. Most shops ask me why, they are heavy and clumsy. The reality is they perform way better on the back-country wilderness trails common to Washington State than my new Stumpjumper FSR Expert with 3.0 tires.

    IMO, the perception is, fat bikes require too much effort when most riders are once a month riders. Secondly, with the cost of mountain bikes are so expensive, people can't justify two mountain bikes, so they go for a 650b or 29er and the fat bike becomes a niche market luxury for diehard adventure seekers.

    I love my Specialized FatBoy Pro Trail and if I had to downsize to only one bike, I would keep the fat bike.

    When I ride with my buddies, they are amazed at how much fun I have, but they all have 29ers and their family needs don't allow them to buy a perceived luxury. So I bought a second fat bike to advocate for fat bikes. Some are chipping to help pay for it as a collective so it will be socially owned.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by trek4fun View Post
    I just shopped around for my second Specialized Fatboy in Seattle. Most shops ask me why, they are heavy and clumsy. The reality is they perform way better on the back-country wilderness trails common to Washington State than my new Stumpjumper FSR Expert with 3.0 tires.

    IMO, the perception is, fat bikes require too much effort when most riders are once a month riders. Secondly, with the cost of mountain bikes are so expensive, people can't justify two mountain bikes, so they go for a 650b or 29er and the fat bike becomes a niche market luxury for diehard adventure seekers.

    I love my Specialized FatBoy Pro Trail and if I had to downsize to only one bike, I would keep the fat bike.

    When I ride with my buddies, they are amazed at how much fun I have, but they all have 29ers and their family needs don't allow them to buy a perceived luxury. So I bought a second fat bike to advocate for fat bikes. Some are chipping to help pay for it as a collective so it will be socially owned.
    Over the last month i kind of realized that around Montreal(quebec) fat is surviving. Many have a fatbike but do not enjoy fatbiking. They look for speed so they use summer tires even if they use their fat only in winter. They cannot ride because it is icy, because it is soft, because they are busy so fatbikes are collecting dust oh and i forgot it is too cold. It remembers me 40 years ago i was a skier and a few weekends waiting time at the chairlift were crazy long because it was spring. People came to enjoy the sun and look cool on skis. 3 centers are popular because they use a snowmobile or a snowdog to groom the trails and other places open by walking the trails with snowshoes we have to talk with the trees. We see people walking their dog and occasionaly a real fat biker. I understand that a pair of winter tires studded is not cheap but only a few understand that it is an investment. They like the cool 11 speeds and the dropper but no cash for rubber wich is realy what fat is about. We swing from +6 to minus 30 celcius so cheap 4 in tires are seriously limiting hours on the trails. With the 27.5 fat tiny rims, narrow tires they damage the trails so the volunteers cannot even enjoy the trails that they groom. So we are a few into real fat and many into so called fat.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    With the 27.5 fat tiny rims, narrow tires they damage the trails so the volunteers cannot even enjoy the trails that they groom. So we are a few into real fat and many into so called fat.
    I have to disagree many 4" 27.5 tires almost have the same footprint as 4.5 26" tires

    Is fat dead?-27.5-versus-26-fat-bike-tire-contact-patch-900x600.jpg

  143. #143
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    The fact is i have 90 mm rims with real 4.8x26.
    Rocky Mountain uses 65 or 70mm rims with what are called 3.8 but are probably not that wide. And the so called 4.5 are more like 4.2
    It is really simple the argument is they roll fast.
    Well yesterday 2 guys younger and more experienced than me could not fallow me because it was snowing and there was about 2 in of fresh snow on the ground.
    Yes your tires are designed for grip or speed.
    I do not care wich language you speak it is that simple.
    Look at formula 1.
    Their qualifying tires are destroyed in 4 laps, they grip.
    Others are for dry, for rain, etc...
    No tire is great at everything.
    Period.
    And without grip well you hit a wall just like they were sliding on the sides of the trails and having problems climbing. I general my pedaling is faster than your pushing.

  144. #144
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    My regular riding buddy and his wife just went out and bought brand new fat bikes each. They have a friends couple who are probably going to do the same as well as are a few others that run in that same social circle. So it's actually catching on here, slowly, but growing.

    Up until very recently, I was the sole village oddity. The weirdo who was out riding in the cold weather. It's a fairly isolated and conservative rural community here, so people aren't known for being early adopters. They have seen these bikes around the larger outlying communities which have college campuses and are more cosmopolitan so that said, it always generates a lot of genuine curiosity....even amongst people who will probably never actually ride a fat bike.


    I don't think fat it is dead and not sure why it's even 'a thing' to being discussed (unless it's in regards to parts availability fears) I mean, who cares if it is trendy right now. If you find it fun, that's all that should matter.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskrider View Post
    I have to disagree many 4" 27.5 tires almost have the same footprint as 4.5 26" tires

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thats interesting, I'm sure rim width has a little to do with it. Are both images on the same width rim? The longer foot print makes complete sense with the 27.5 having a larger circumference.(roll over)

    Back to the topic...Fat is not dead in SWPa even with the lack of consistent snow fall you will see fat bikes out a lot. Just in our group there were two of us riding fat the last four years. Every one else said not necessary bah bah bah. Well one fella got one last winter and 3 more this year. They seen that the fat bikes float on 5-6" of fresh snow and we were able to ride and have fun. If you don't down hill or XC ski and biking is your thing then fat bikes are the way to go..

  146. #146
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    I agree a 3.8 on a 65 is alot different than a 4 on a 90
    Sounds like bad trail etiguette on their part. If youre trenching dont ride the groom

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskrider View Post
    I have to disagree many 4" 27.5 tires almost have the same footprint as 4.5 26" tires

    Click image for larger version. 

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    How come a 4.5 have a larger footprint than a 4.7 ?
    I call BS on that one.

    And BTW , 650 have not more than 100mm more circumference than a 26er.
    https://www.cateye.com/data/resource..._chart_ENG.pdf
    https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions

    That image would make more sense if it was a comparaison of a 700 on 4.7 with a 26er on a 4.7
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  148. #148
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    It can't be dead. I just purchased frame and parts and in the middle of the build. If I'm doing it, it means it's alive and well because everyone will follow my lead. he he he he. ho ho ho ho.

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    I'm far from an engineer but real world my 27.5 D4s dont trench any worse than 26x4.5s in the same conditions. I've owned both 26 and 27.5 fat bikes from 4 to 4.7 wide.

    Just my opinion

    Fats isnt dead! Snowed 30cm this weekend. Good luck riding a traditional width or plus bike for the next few months

  150. #150
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    Fat or Snow bike? On paper they are the same, but we all know they are different.

    SNOW biking here (Northern Utah; IE: Provo, Park City, SLC, Ogden, Logan) is really exploding in popularity. When there's no snow I barely ever see one. Fat bikes are mostly "snow bikes" here, totally seasonal. I know some guys who use them for bikepacking, but that's yet another segment.

    Here our Winter is 5 mos long, so for anyone reasonably serious it makes sense to have a fattie so they can ride year round close to home. Otherwise it's a big road trip. The fat bike makes it possible to go out for a 90min ride and have a blast. Despite not being fully fit, the loss of 25lbs of bike and gear makes it seem like I am fast again, until I actually am (August-). :-D

  151. #151
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    Another reason for a slow acceptance of fat bikes.

    I remember when I first started mountain biking in 83. The kids used to laugh at my bike and called it names because they were all roadies and beach bikers. By the 90's you were not cool unless had a mountain bike. It takes time for social norms to change and fat bikes are very unique. Socially, they are not so cool as a 29er FSR. People like their comfort zones.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by trek4fun View Post
    Another reason for a slow acceptance of fat bikes.

    I remember when I first started mountain biking in 83. The kids used to laugh at my bike and called it names because they were all roadies and beach bikers. By the 90's you were not cool unless had a mountain bike. It takes time for social norms to change and fat bikes are very unique. Socially, they are not so cool as a 29er FSR. People like their comfort zones.
    In this nordic climate the kids on skis gawk at the fat-bikes and they tend to wish they were fat-biking rather than trying to learn/train XC skiing.

    They are entrenched up here and in many of these climates. I think they'll always be "unique" or rare in warmer climates. It's full on fat-season here
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  153. #153
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    My last mountain bike was stolen in fall of 05, life progressed and it was replaced with a commuter bike I hated. Fast forward to 15, wanted a winter commuter for the wife, smart salesman fit me one to follow along.... ended up with a his/hers pair. Then my mom got one, then a couple more for visitors then we got a spare..... 6 bikes in the 2k ballpark for people who weren't "bike people."

    Wife and I go 4-6 days a week, the spare bike has done more than just a little ambassador work. With her completing school someone is going to sell two more bikes when we move to upgrade.

    Heck for my mom, fatbikes were a gateway drug to the biking habit. In anchorage the trails are way more utilized than ever before, and the ski to bike ratio keeps going to the bike. I'll second the kid observation, bike past a group of them and only the parent doesn't say "cool bike".

    Couple mild lower 48 winters slowed the lower 48 spread, but with continued innovation (wider 27.5, the j5s) will keep it alive for a while longer.

  154. #154
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    This forum used to be booming, now its as slow as every other one. I would say its slowed down.

    Only people buying bikes are $1200 entrys trying it out finally or carbon bikes for people upgrading their couple year old aluminums.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    This forum used to be booming, now its as slow as every other one. I would say its slowed down.

    Only people buying bikes are $1200 entrys trying it out finally or carbon bikes for people upgrading their couple year old aluminums.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And this is different than any other time?
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  156. #156
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    I'm in the market for a fat bike and have had very little luck finding anything out there used. I'll probably have to settle for new and spend some real cash. Comparing that to the number of used Santa Cruz, yeti, and specialized enduro style bikes that are less than two years old but flooding the used market, I'd say people are enjoying their fat bikes and holding on to them. Makes you wonder, is Enduro dead?

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by langster831 View Post
    I'm in the market for a fat bike and have had very little luck finding anything out there used. I'll probably have to settle for new and spend some real cash. Comparing that to the number of used Santa Cruz, yeti, and specialized enduro style bikes that are less than two years old but flooding the used market, I'd say people are enjoying their fat bikes and holding on to them. Makes you wonder, is Enduro dead?
    Check out the new Giant.

    Many of the trails around me, I notice a LOT of people on b+ bikes with a sprinkling of fat. Yesterday, I was riding with my son on a new to us trail. I saw nothing but fat tire tracks on a few soft spots.
    I like turtles

  158. #158
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    Is fat dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Check out the new Giant.

    Many of the trails around me, I notice a LOT of people on b+ bikes with a sprinkling of fat. Yesterday, I was riding with my son on a new to us trail. I saw nothing but fat tire tracks on a few soft spots.
    New giant is lots of bike for the money, farley 5 is comparable. $200+ more.

    Rocky mountain has some cheaper bikes too like the blizzard -10 and -20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I have some opinions on geometry, but things like the advent of reliable dropper posts mean the rider's CoG can be far more mobile, and that has a considerable effect on the way trail inputs into the steering are affected.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Agreed completely -- but more from the perspective of BB height than anything else.
    Much more effective to drop the saddle 4 or 5" to lower CoG than to have a 1/4" lower BB and smack pedals/cram feet into any/every immovable object along the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    ... However I did wonder if a dropper post would have helped because it would have allowed me a wider range of body positions, ie is CoG placement more important than geometry?
    ...
    When I was doing the math for a fat cargo bike on an online calculator, I was astounded how much the recommended trail changed as CoG changed. As in, when the rider position moved rearward (crank-forward style), or any cargo was added behind the rider. The difference was so 'sensitive', due to fore/aft position of chest & legs I even had to account for a different CoG centre of a rider in a lean-forward position, upright position or crank-forward position.

    I only get to ride POS fat bikes, so I'm wondering how much fore/aft movement of CoG occurs with shifting body positions (even simple leaning forward?).
    Are we discounting how much the fore/aft portion of CoG changes affects the feel and handling of a given geometry?
    Should a rider consider, or even test ride, how the bike handles in the different body positions they'll be using while riding, to ensure their weight on that geometry will work for all required body positions?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post

    .....so I'm wondering how much fore/aft movement of CoG occurs with shifting body positions (even simple leaning forward?).
    ?
    Search my name and weight distribution or scale. Couple years ago I did fat bike science and put a scale under both wheels, shifting body weight fore/aft. 2 bikes and multiple positions, the variation in distribution was minimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Search my name and weight distribution or scale. Couple years ago I did fat bike science and put a scale under both wheels, shifting body weight fore/aft. 2 bikes and multiple positions, the variation in distribution was minimal.
    Interesting.
    The calculated recommended trail changes even with the CoG difference between leaning forward and sitting up straight. Mind that was with the seat farther back for crank-forward on a cargo-length bike.

    ~edited

    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    ... Waiting for the scale to settle down as I was getting comfortable I saw 5-10% variations. Purposefully shifting my weight in a seated position can force up to 15% swing in distribution from the base values above. Can anyone else contribute?
    If 5-10% seated, add a dropper post into the mix and wouldn't that % range be meaningfully larger?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Search my name and weight distribution or scale. Couple years ago I did fat bike science and put a scale under both wheels, shifting body weight fore/aft. 2 bikes and multiple positions, the variation in distribution was minimal.
    I guess your test was still on a flat surface?
    The forward/backward i think i use is mainly when i am not on a flat surface.

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    The thread for reference, starting at post #96 and beyond. https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/ch...at-894922.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Interesting.

    If 5-10% seated, add a dropper post into the mix and wouldn't that % range be meaningfully larger?
    Yes definitely. I was trying to measure the more static and neutral positions on the bike you'd find yourself in while pedaling. Subtle weight shifts that are manageable while underway pedaling, not crazy yoga moves. With a dropper you could get way out over the back to shift weight bias, but then you'd never be able to pedal. Just the same you could put your bellybutton on the stem and load up the front.

    My post #103
    After taking my measurements I feel as though my position on the bike and personal build matter just as much or even more to the weight distribution than the chainstay length. Surely bike geometry matters, but along with that one must consider: frame bags, bar rolls, fork cages, saddle bag, seat rail adjustment, stem length and height, backpack w/ water or beer gut...... Any collection of those factors could skew a person's experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    I guess your test was still on a flat surface?
    The forward/backward i think i use is mainly when i am not on a flat surface.
    Tested in the heated basement at level. Too many variations of slope to consider anything else. Typical riding, yes I lean forward and back to maximize traction or balance on slopes. We were discussing the subtle forward and backwards shifts a rider does on (relatively) flat snow in order maximize float and maintain forward propulsion w/o bogging either wheel down to a stop.

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  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackWare View Post
    In Europe Cube have dropped 2 of the 3 Nutrail variants, but have kept the e version.
    I've also noticed the various UK online stores have dropped a lot of the fat tyre options.
    I was quite surprised how the Farleys have disappeared almost entirely from the UK now, I was toying with upgrading my 6 and found the only Farley left now is the 5 pretty much.

    It's odd because these days in the north of Scotland I see fat bikes regularly over winter now so it's not like they're fading out and being replaced by plus bikes.
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  166. #166
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    I modded my Farley 6 with 1X11 10-42 with XTR Shifter, different fork and tires. It is one of five and I am keeping her. There are many times in a year I need her!

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    Stock 29Ē x 4.0Ē full suspension with mid/ long travel options with 1X eagle and modern geometry suited for aggressive riding. Is that too much to ask for for under $4K?
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Stock 29Ē x 4.0Ē full suspension with mid/ long travel options with 1X eagle and modern geometry suited for aggressive riding. Is that too much to ask for for under $4K?
    U can ask but only custom might deliver.
    Generaly bikes are masse produced and 26x4.8 is max.
    Tires with a larger diameter cannot be used by shorter riders.
    The frame just needs to be too long, so it makes a bike more expensive wich makes the smaller market even smaller wich makes it even more expensive.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    U can ask but only custom might deliver.
    Generaly bikes are masse produced and 26x4.8 is max.
    Tires with a larger diameter cannot be used by shorter riders.
    The frame just needs to be too long, so it makes a bike more expensive wich makes the smaller market even smaller wich makes it even more expensive.
    What would be too short from a rider perspective on that proposed bike? Donít know enough about standover height and frames to know. But come on, 29Ē x 3.0Ē fits many current fat frames so not like it would be a huge shift it seems.

    Itís my dream bike, I can dream right? Hah I wonder how much a custom to fit would be? Mikesee any guess?
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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Stock 29Ē x 4.0Ē full suspension with mid/ long travel options with 1X eagle and modern geometry suited for aggressive riding. Is that too much to ask for for under $4K?

    Given that neither rims nor tires exist in that size, the answer is an obvious yes.

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    Trek is selling the Farley EX as a carbon frameset for 2020. No complete bike option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Trek is selling the Farley EX as a carbon frameset for 2020. No complete bike option.
    That makes sense in MHO no reason to shove down our throats the 27 and their tires. Hopefully that 27 will die soon. Long live 26 FAT !

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Given that neither rims nor tires exist in that size, the answer is an obvious yes.
    That did not stop Surly from introducing bikes with 4" fat tires.... or 5" Fat tires.... or 29+.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    That did not stop Surly from introducing bikes with 4" fat tires.... or 5" Fat tires.... or 29+.
    Yep, those were the days.

    But Surly doesn't make FS bikes -- as the person to whom I responded was requesting.

    Come to think of it, Surly doesn't do much innovation at all anymore when it comes to off-piste stuff.

    They brought it to the table for sure. But they've since moved in the direction of hipster touring bikes.

  175. #175
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    I think they are going to keep expanding in regions where they make sense, though realistically only among cyclists serious enough about riding that they want to get a second MTB AND ride in the winter.

    Where I think some of the contraction may come in is as many people decide these are NOT the do-it-all bikes they were hyped up to be, and for the trails MOST people ride MOST of the time (i.e., trail not covered in snow and slop) there are better options.

    I have the sense I may be a typical fat bike purchaser: A somewhat serious mountain biker that was going stir-crazy in the winter months not being able to ride. The whole time I lived and rode in Virginia, I had zero interest in a Fat Bike. Demo'ed a couple, but did not see the point of them for my riding. But after moving to Upstate NY, and spending my first winter not trail riding at all for 4 months (and very little for an additional 2)... yeah, the Fat Bike started looking really good.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Funny how at the time of purchasing my Farley 9.6 that I was ready to get a 26" wheelset for it. If I had gotten the 7 I probably would never experience the 650b FATness. I reckon I need to build me a spare b fat wheelset since it may die soon.
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