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Thread: Is fat dead?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    I think the lack of fork options also limits the growth of fat bikes as a one-bike solution. Imagine Fox 34 legs pressed into a crown that would accommodate a fat tire. It seems like it would be simple to do, but until then we only have the Bluto, Wren and Mastodon as compromises.
    I'm curious, what's 'a compromise' about the Mastodon? I'm 240lbs, ride downhill decently fast, and I love the thing on snow or dirt. Works great at -25 deg C and generally makes me pretty darn happy. Never ridden a Wren and wasn't overly impressed by the Bluto (but RockShox does get kudos for making a fat fork).

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanmoreBruce View Post
    I'm curious, what's 'a compromise' about the Mastodon? I'm 240lbs, ride downhill decently fast, and I love the thing on snow or dirt. Works great at -25 deg C and generally makes me pretty darn happy. Never ridden a Wren and wasn't overly impressed by the Bluto (but RockShox does get kudos for making a fat fork).
    The Mastodon weighs a lot and doesn't clear some frames.

    I know that's an issue to many (myself included) and i'm not a lightweight by any means.

    Just to weigh in on the topic at hand, I ride on snow therefore I'll likely always have a fatbike.

    With that being said, i have tried the Fatbike as all season bike for the past 4-5 years and it just didn't work for me. It works great as an XC bike but not so much as a trail bike IMHO. That combined with being 45 years old...my body can't take the beating.

    I have since just picked up a used Trance Advanced for rowdier trail use and I'm loving it.

    I think i should have stuck with a 29'er though, but that's a discussion for another thread.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Can you define what advantage you see a slacker head angle giving you on a snow or sand bike?
    No. He can't.
    Physically impossible.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yep, sure can...

    But then I think you knew that, and weren't asking me...
    I have some opinions on geometry, but things like the advent of reliable dropper posts mean the rider's CoG can be far more mobile, and that has a considerable effect on the way trail inputs into the steering are affected.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I have some opinions on geometry, but things like the advent of reliable dropper posts mean the rider's CoG can be far more mobile, and that has a considerable effect on the way trail inputs into the steering are affected.

    Agreed completely -- but more from the perspective of BB height than anything else.

    Much more effective to drop the saddle 4 or 5" to lower CoG than to have a 1/4" lower BB and smack pedals/cram feet into any/every immovable object along the way.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Agreed completely -- but more from the perspective of BB height than anything else.

    Much more effective to drop the saddle 4 or 5" to lower CoG than to have a 1/4" lower BB and smack pedals/cram feet into any/every immovable object along the way.
    It is clear.
    They stopped designing bikes.
    The new way is cell phones on wheels.
    Everything is designed to fail.
    - droppers
    - 12 speeds with loss of teeth the first month
    - low BB to bang and break
    - assisted Ebikes
    I will not buy new shit!

  7. #107
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    Outdated roadie geometry is the biggest downfall of today's fatties.
    The only factory fatbike I would consider today, is the Pole Taiga, but the BB is too wide for me to really want to pull the trigger.
    I want a fatbike with a little bit longer chain stays and a slacker head angle, so that the weight balance is more neutral and more stability at high speed, we do have some gnarly downhill bits where I ride in the winter.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    The only factory fatbike I would consider today, is the Pole Taiga, but the BB is too wide for me to really want to pull the trigger.
    Pole has some intriguing numbers for HTA, STA and reach. That chain stay length tho: 470mm. A whomping 2 inches longer than the Wozo but since you said you like the longer length maybe it'd work for you (outside of the 120mm threaded BB)..horses for courses. Pole is a brand I keep my eye on - maybe their next iteration will match up for you.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Pole has some intriguing numbers for HTA, STA and reach. That chain stay length tho: 470mm. A whomping 2 inches longer than the Wozo but since you said you like the longer length maybe it'd work for you (outside of the 120mm threaded BB)..horses for courses. Pole is a brand I keep my eye on - maybe their next iteration will match up for you.
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.

  10. #110
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    Well, things sure have not improved since we talked last time....
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fat...t-1022168.html

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    It's the old horses for courses discussion.

    A lot of riders do most of their riding on artificial trails designed for mtbs. As each technological "improvement" in the bikes makes the trail feel tamer, then trails get modified to make them more "exciting" to counter it.

    I don't usually ride artificial trails, but at the weekend I was riding at the World Championship 24 Hour Solos and so had a good close up look at what was working best in the hands of the world's elite. It looked to me the ideal bike needed to turn really fast, pivot around its real wheel and have full suspension to cope with air. Shortish chainstays seemed to be working for those riders.

    My opinion is that the descents on the course would have passed as a DH course a generation or so ago. I talked to quite a few of the riders and the consensus was it was the toughest course they had ridden.

    When I last rode that event 4 years ago, I was on a rigid singlespeed and while it was tough there was always a line somewhere. This time I was rigid again but the course had been "improved" and some of the turns felt too tight for my bike which is set up more for mountain trails than artificial ones (relatively long chainstays).

    However I did wonder if a dropper post would have helped because it would have allowed me a wider range of body positions, ie is CoG placement more important than geometry?

    I suppose what will become obvious is a clear distinction between bikes designed for racing on artificial courses and those designed for hauling around an actual mountain.

    If I do this event again I'll probably follow suit and ride a short chainstay suspension bike, but that's not what I'd choose for general use because almost of my riding is natural and I prefer longer chainstays for steep climbs as well as comfort.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    Interesting take I guess. I've ridden a lot of bikes over many decades. Some have been really long, some have been short. There are features of both and everything in-between. Know your geometry and ride qualities you are seeking. On my Wozo, the geometry is very well matched to what I'm looking for - the biggest influences of that are the long front center and short stays - accentuates the playful-style and very active maneuverability I emphasis in my ride. Someone else may put a priority on other traits - totally up to you.

    I love the old Moto footage. Those bikes are a far cry from my 2019 TPI 300 but just as fun.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    Riders drove the move to shorter stays....and some companies went kicking and screaming, but itís become clear that the market demanded those short stays and bikes without them wonít sell....because almost everyone prefers them, within reason.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Riders drove the move to shorter stays....and some companies went kicking and screaming, but itís become clear that the market demanded those short stays and bikes without them wonít sell....because almost everyone prefers them, within reason.
    Kind of short board / long board for surfers

  15. #115
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    Did you see the opening MTBR article this week?

    Plus is dead!

  16. #116
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    Bla, Bla, Bla ! ! !
    Some people are paid to talk.
    Some people are paid to write.
    They pick a tittle to sell $ $ $
    they fill in lines.
    They might beleive it
    they might not
    Probably not worth our time.

  17. #117
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    Not dead, but certainly leveled off. I got my first fattie (a grey Pugs) in 2010. I'd been riding MTB regularly for 20+ years, and have owned many bikes. The fatbike was by far the biggest change in the actual riding experience in my lifetime. Pretty much every other new bike I've owned could be described as being only incrementally different from previous bikes. I'll totally admit to being all in on the novelty factor. Yeah, I was the guy who wouldn't shut up about my fatbike. I loved my Pugs, but immediately replaced it with a semi custom Ti fatbike from (the now defunct) Twenty2 Cycles. It's 7 years old now, but is still my go-to ride. It's truly old school geo with a 70 degree HTA, 450mm A/C rigid fork and longish chainstays. I often swap in a set of 27.5x3" wheels. I never feel like the geometry is a limiting factor. It's plenty light (24lbs in fat mode, 21.5lbs in mid-fat mode), so it's nimble, but the traction and stability from the bigger tires provide most of what a modern geometry bike offers. For reference, I also ride a Yeti SB5+, which is nice and all, but when I'm riding it, it feels like the bike is doing most of the work, and it sort of takes some of the fun out of it for me. I've ridden both bikes back-to-back on the same trails on the same day, and while the Yeti is certainly the better "tool", the Twenty2 is just more fun.

    I don't care much that things have leveled off because I'm pretty happy with my bike as it sits. I've upgraded it plenty over the years - carbon wheels, tubeless, 1x11, etc. The biggest bummer would be if I can't get tires or other fat-specific parts. Despite the advances in tire tech and choices, there's still a lot of room for improvement in that department, IMO.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    The bicycle industry is so backwards and antiquated. Selling people on new bikes with the concept that idiotically short chainstays are the key to better handling and performance. The off-road motorcycle industry hasnít used such terrible design concepts since the 1960ís. https://youtu.be/42vX7grcd1k

    Longer wheelbases and chainstays putting the rider more in the center of the bike is better for all around performance and handling especially as the speeds increase.
    I found it amusing that all of these rear-heavy (short chainstay) bikes nosed up on the jump at 0:50 (except for one).

    Considering all the nose-heavy bikes we're seeing in the human powered bicycle industry, I think a rear-heavy bike is a nice change, though I'd prefer the elusive balanced one.

    I think the problem is that many people function on simplified logic. Shorten the chainstay and discover it became better, so keep shortening it until it stops becoming better. Or widen the bars and find it's better (with a short stem), keep widening it until it stops becoming better. This pattern of incremental improvement resonates with the mainstream. How long before Transition's SBG makes it mainstream? I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into something like that shortboard vs longboard analogy, becoming as long or longer than Pole's offerings... xD

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    ...but the traction and stability from the bigger tires provide most of what a modern geometry bike offers.
    It's not really modern geometry, it's straight out of the 1920s when there was a fashion for slack HAs. Although there were good reasons for it back then and it was hailed as "modern", they were nothing to do with handling. The fashion didn't last long, and the bikes were horribly floppy things if you wanted to go up a steep hill.

    Give it a few years and people riding rigid forks will be looking at those "modern geometry" bikes with the same enthusiasm they have for the very short canti braked mtbs of the early 90s.

    There are good reasons for slack if you are running a telescopic fork, and I expect they'll find that around 64ļ is about right to compensate for the implicit design deficiencies of the telescopic fork, and that's a pretty ancient rule of thumb.
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  20. #120
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    "I'd been riding MTB regularly for 20+ years, and have owned many bikes. The fatbike was by far the biggest change in the actual riding experience in my lifetime. Pretty much every other new bike I've owned could be described as being only incrementally different from previous bikes. I'll totally admit to being all in on the novelty factor. Yeah, I was the guy who wouldn't shut up about my fatbike. I loved my Pugs"

    ^ this right here is pretty close to my experience, although I was later to the fat bike party. I had been riding an MTB since '86 and offroad for longer than that. The Pugs I bought (or the one O hired for a weekend first of all) just reminded me of the freedom to explore that the first MTB gave me. I'd see a trail and just go follow. Sure I could have done that on my MTB but I had got away from that type of riding, where you just ride.

    Do I think the bubble has burst? Here in the UK it certainly seems to have changed. Many that jad them seem to have sold them and bought plus or gravel bikes. Others bought them as 'adventure' bikes but then added all the trail mtb stuff like sus forks and dropper posts but often returned to an MTB for their riding, especially at trail centres.

    The UK fat bike forum closed down, although I am told there is a FB group but I don't use FB.

    I still ride my Pugs regularly. It still puts a huge smile on my face and I am still asked about it all the time.

    I look forward to seeing the GFBD pics to prove there are still plenty flying the fat flag though!

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Horse View Post
    I actually get a lot of questions from older people....seniors, who express an interest because they correctly assume that it might be an all-around safer ride than a conventional bicycle.

    Probably the most frequent question is what the cost would be for getting a similar bike. I usually encourage them to consider it a good investment for staying active.
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee jones View Post
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.
    Now that is just plain awesome and is what biking (any kind of biking) is all about.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee jones View Post
    I'm a late comer to this thread so I'm posting in the blind. I'm 70 years old and I've been riding MB's since the early 80s. Fat bike are the best thing to come along in my lifetime. I can ride trails on a fat bike that would kick my butt on a MB. They're not common here in South Texas but they do exist. In the winters I'll gang line my dogs to a fat bike and go dry land mushing. They love it and and it proves a fat bike can go fast. I've planned a 97 mile trail ride across Big Bend National Park this coming April. Personally, I hope fat bikes are around forever and I'm around to see it.
    BJ you can rest. I live in Montreal(Quebec) and here in the news it is all about winter commuting on a bike and the expansion of FatBike for the family and more places open trails, groom and offer rentals. Maybe some manufacturers will stop but enough will build them for decades. The only question is will you see some in a shop near you. Some might have to mail order but they will be available. I am 61 and i might get one at 100 with a bit of luck.

  24. #124
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    Fat is far from dead look at all the new tires this year alone. Where I live its getting bigger ever year. The only thing I have noticed is frame design has settled for now. Iím completely sold on Fat enjoy

  25. #125
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    When I got my Fatie in 2016 I felt late to the party, but selection was still scarce and I visited a lot of dealers until I finally settled on my built. Now I'm seeing people looking and writing about new/trend etc. movements but the reality is (in the East End of Long Island, NY) that I now see more fat bikes than ever before. The last couple of winters I nearly never saw a track on the sand in the winter and rarely in the summer. Today (cool, rainy and January!!), I saw 2 faties out and about (One S-works at that). So I think its more alive than ever....

  26. #126
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    keeping mine

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post

    I just hope that the following knowledge becomes common: if you're actually going to ride year round in sub-freezing temps, the clothing might cost more than your bike if you ride every day, depending on your preference for technical clothing vs traditional clothing. Some items from normal winter wear transfer well to winter cycling, while other items do not.

    Thats hilarious I often think of this fact, I ride 6 days a week year round and the gore clothes and 45nrth shoes I wear when I go out biking in the snow easily cost as much as my bike if not more! I find that fact alone funny, but to be able to ride comfortably the clothing is just as important as the bike itself in technology, at least thats what Ive come to conclude, I could be wrong.

  28. #128
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    Why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.

  29. #129
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    I would say No based upon the interest I get whenever my son and I ride our fatbikes on local trails. At least one or two people per ride on popular trails will stop and chat us up about our bikes.

    I think there is a lot of misconception about the capabilities of a fatbike in the larger mountain biking community. Yeah, they are a *bit* heavier, but not actually that much. The new OEM and aftermarket parts can turn them into reasonable climbing machines. The new geometry and suspension allows for moderate enduro style riding. One of the things I like the best is the wider footprint when riding on wet'ish trails. While normal sized tires leave a deep rut, I can ride over the top of them and smooth them out.

    I haven't even touched on the winter snow/ice riding capabilities.
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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.
    Good advice. On the flip side, if things are "dying" the availability of some things may well be affected along with the prices for such things. It's not a terrible question to ask, but could perhaps be worded better.

    Fat is not dead, long live the FAT!
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  31. #131
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    Not dead!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Is fat dead?-img_20181201_210948_314.jpg  

    Last edited by Saskrider; 1 Week Ago at 12:52 PM.

  32. #132
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    Is fat dead ?
    Nah .... it just smells funny.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskrider View Post
    Its winter and snows where i live 7+ months a year. Local shops sell truck loads of fat bike and are full of fat bikes tires accessories winter riding gear etc. Shops even rent fat bikes.

    We have amazing tech single track right downtown along the river and even groomed singletrack 5 minute drive from downtown.

    When my "xc race" bike gets boring its soo rad to jump on the fatbike, gives a whole new perspective to the trails and how you can ride them.

    Not dead where I'm from in Canada that's forsure

    Is fat dead?-img_20181201_210948_314.jpg
    where's that?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpabt1 View Post
    why are there so many "is [insert flavour of choice] dead" threads? Who gives a stuff what is trending, just do what you want.
    but why aren't millenials buying homes??

    The answer may shock you

    bike shops hate him!
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

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