Fat CAAD chain ring explosion!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fat CAAD chain ring explosion!

    My customers first day out on the bike and walked back in with this minutes later...

    Fat CAAD chain ring explosion!-img_4260.jpgFat CAAD chain ring explosion!-img_4261.jpg

    Be on the lookout. We'll see if it is a reoccurring issue.
    carbonLORD /// KILOMETER

  2. #2
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    Looks cool! But prepare for people claiming that you are throwing Cannondale under the bus. Just saying. Or is that only when it's a carbon frame? I forget. Something about buses and throwing or throwing and buses.

  3. #3
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    That blowed up real good!
    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  4. #4
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    From the pic, it looks like the chainring was installed with an SAE sledgehammer instead of a metric one. Either that or the chain was pretensioned using an air compressor.

  5. #5
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    looks like a chain ring strike to me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    From the pic, it looks like the chainring was installed with an SAE sledgehammer instead of a metric one. Either that or the chain was pretensioned using an air compressor.
    The bike was undoubtedly cleaned with a pressure washer and full strength Simple Green.
    Latitude 61

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phinox View Post
    looks like a chain ring strike to me.
    Sure looks like it...
    2014 Salsa Beargrease Carbon XX1
    :madmax:IF IT AIN'T A FATTY IT AIN'T WORTH RIDING...:madmax:

  8. #8
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    Not possible.

    A: we are located in downtown Chicago. This happened riding away on pavement.

    B: at that angle the non drive side crank arm would have hit whatever and there is no other damage to the bike anywhere.

    The Cannondale rep was already here and said it looks like a defect in workmanship on the chainring/spider. Cdale's sending a replacement crank.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    Not possible.

    A: we are located in downtown Chicago. This happened riding away on pavement.

    B: at that angle the non drive side crank arm would have hit whatever and there is no other damage to the bike anywhere.

    The Cannondale rep was already here and said it looks like a defect in workmanship on the chainring/spider. Cdale's sending a replacement crank.
    Wow... Crazy for a chainring just to fall apart like that...
    2014 Salsa Beargrease Carbon XX1
    :madmax:IF IT AIN'T A FATTY IT AIN'T WORTH RIDING...:madmax:

  10. #10
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    That ring is machined to failure, look at it. It looks like a brake rotor.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HossHuffner View Post
    That ring is machined to failure, look at it. It looks like a brake rotor.
    And yet, a few of the best XC racers in the world ride the same rings without a problem...

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  12. #12
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    Ahhh, I see your problem. It's missing a few teefs there.

  13. #13
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    But yet you`re a dealer posting negative info about the brand you sell even though your rep is making it right. Cannondale is going to love you guys.

  14. #14
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    What did I post negative? I posted this to say, keep an eye on your equipment and to let others know it was warrantied in 1 day.

  15. #15
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    I like the direct mount stuff, it great for rings 30t and smaller, but it never made any sense to me with the bigger rings. It might weigh more, but a spider and ring seems tried and true. I'd rather break my chain than my chainring, less jagged metal and all.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HossHuffner View Post
    I like the direct mount stuff, it great for rings 30t and smaller, but it never made any sense to me with the bigger rings. It might weigh more, but a spider and ring seems tried and true. I'd rather break my chain than my chainring, less jagged metal and all.
    I've broken spiders. With an integrated spider, if you break one, the crank is trash. If you prefer a spider, you can get a direct mount spider for most dm cranks I believe.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    I've broken spiders. With an integrated spider, if you break one, the crank is trash. If you prefer a spider, you can get a direct mount spider for most dm cranks I believe.
    Impact or torque?

  18. #18
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    That thar 'ring done had chosed the wrong two thangs between strong, light, and cheap.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HossHuffner View Post
    Impact or torque?
    Impact weakened it, torque finished the job on both. Long time ago.

  20. #20
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    Did he roll up his jeans after the explosion, or before he left your shop.

  21. #21
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    Instead of system integrated it system disintegrated.

  22. #22
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    Explosion?
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  23. #23
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    Looks like a curb strike.
    I ncredibly
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Looks like a curb strike.
    Standard curb height is 4 to 6 inches, 8 is a stretch but a curb strike here is like 11-12 inches, who rides a brand new rig straight into a small wall?

  25. #25
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    Lucky there wasn't an accompanying massive leg wound...
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  26. #26
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    And that, right there is why I prefer a system that allows use of a bash guard.

    All this direct mount BS is leading up to a lot more of these.

    Sometimes, things really were better the old way.

    XC racers don't break them because they ride on buffed out courses with no log/rock overs. A large number of the rest of us? We got that stuff and a bash makes all the difference....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    And that, right there is why I prefer a system that allows use of a bash guard.

    All this direct mount BS is leading up to a lot more of these.

    Sometimes, things really were better the old way.

    XC racers don't break them because they ride on buffed out courses with no log/rock overs. A large number of the rest of us? We got that stuff and a bash makes all the difference....
    You apparently live in a different universe, or have no clue what you speak of.

    You post some good stuff, but this is pretty ignorant.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Looks like a curb strike.
    This is what I was thinking, or a big hunk of something. Good job on taking care of it and for the head's up. ..

  29. #29
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    I saw an identical failure of a Fat CAAD chainring during the bike's first outing. The rider managed to break the ring in half in less than 15 minutes of snow riding. The guy that broke it is about 215 pounds, and wasn't doing anything crazy, JRA.

    With that said, I have borrowed the ring from a friend's Fat CAAD to used on my Hollowgram cranks, and have not had an issue in a couple hundred miles of riding. I'm quite a bit lighter than most riders.
    Last edited by johnlh; 12-21-2015 at 07:40 PM. Reason: add details

  30. #30
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    Anyone look at the stupid purple chainring on the Slate? That looks like a taco waiting to happen too. Disc rotors aren't radially splines so I'm not sure why chainrings are.

    I'm not an engineer though, so it could be perfectly fine. I just tend to break everything on bikes.

    EDIT- crank's purple, not the chainring. Also added pic
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  31. #31
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    You know that the same chainring has held up under dudes racing in pro CX races, as well as the 53/39 version surviving under pro road racers for a while now, right?

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    XC racers don't break them because they ride on buffed out courses with no log/rock overs. A large number of the rest of us? We got that stuff and a bash makes all the difference....
    Uhh...where? In 1995?

    Most of the time these days, even XC races have some good tech bits. I honestly can't think of many, if any, XC races I did in the recent past (10 years) that didn't have some decent tech bits that lots of non-tech people wouldn't be able to get over, but most high end XC racers are pretty damn good at tech, despite the defense mechanisms that pop up from people compensating for the fact that they can't begin to match the speed and power of these monsters. I'm not trying to call you out here Mendon, but I see this time and time again, where people assume that XC riders ride buffed out trails and can't deal with any tech. To be sure, during the races I've done, you'll see people stalled out and backed up for miles (ok, not quite that long, but still pretty long) where there's any tech. These are the weekend-riders, the guys that have no chance of placing near the top, the guys contending for the top spots are long gone and breezed over that stuff like it wasn't even there. Of course, this is what most people experience I guess, which leads them to believe "all these guys are racing XC and can't clean any technical factors", ok, I suppose, but they aren't the guys I think about when I think about competitive XC racing.

    Our little winter-series short-track cyclocross-like race earlier this month (each race of the series is a completely different format) included some tight turns, a fallen tree to somehow get over, a big hard 5 foot high mound of hard snow that I found a way to somehow launch on the front side and fly over in the air, landing past on the opposite side, and other fun features. I found I could "boost" over the fallen tree when there were no racers in front of me, this meant somewhat ramming my front wheel into the tree at speed while bunny hopping, to give a little additional "pop" up, then clearing while my rear tire hit the top and I boosted over without losing any speed. Of course, when there were some racers in front of me I hit the chainring or did a few glancing blows because I couldn't just boost over the thing and keep my speed up, I had to let the front come down and keep pedaling over the top. During riding that hard and abusive (trying to go as fast as possible at all costs), **** happens and my chainring occasionally hits the log, but I don't see it as a reason to buy a bashring, a decent chainring should be able to take a few "soft" hits like this. As long as it's not a rock, I'd expect it to hold up and not fold like a paper clip, unless I totally slammed the full weight of the bike at speed against the tree with the chainring with no upward body movement.

    I agree the direct mount BS and trying to lighten cranksets a little to far is contributing, but I wouldn't say that perception of XC racing is accurate either, not for any races I've done in the last few decades. I'm sure there are super buffed out XC races in some places, but by and large the top riders are usually amazingly skilled AND fast and tech doesn't slow them down much, if at all. Much of the time, they compete in multiple disciplines (road, enduro, DH) and are blazingly fast, no matter what the terrain.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  33. #33
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    HAHA.

    I am sure that your trails challenge you and your weekend warrior buddies, but please, spare us your tales of courage.
    Last edited by alias; 12-22-2015 at 05:59 AM.

  34. #34
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    Is your customer named Chuck Norris?

  35. #35
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    Man, I thought racing was supposed to make you *tougher*, not make your skin thinner!

    The racers themselves are not the issue I was referring to. Of course they can ride like bats out of hell if they want to.

    By forever lightening by grams, you start to give up durability.

    Case in point. Surly MWOD. No spider, so "essentially" direct mount. They offer a bash for it, which bolts to the ring itself, essentially, offering no additional protection whatsoever.

    How do I know? Because after owning one for a year, and folding a ring or two, then installing the bash, doing it again, gee, I'm done.

    Bought a OD that had since become available, modified a 5 bolt Race Face bash to fit, been happy ever since. Been using them for years, very happy with the results. Tired of bent, ground off, broken teeth (as well as the ring itself now and then) while using 42-46t, 3x set ups.

    Surly (someone who's not afraid of a little weight now and then) just brought out a (gasp) heavier ring for the OD to protect it more. I can't imagine why they'd do that if "RACERS" can't destroy rings like the OP posted....

    Just look at that ring. It says, weight reduction was the optimal concern. Anyone out there who thinks it'll hold up just fine to a life of abuse and real world riding, isn't doing much real world riding. Hell, it couldn't survive life in the street!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    Is your customer named Chuck Norris?
    No way, that's a Vin Diesel mechanical, tops.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HossHuffner View Post
    That ring is machined to failure
    Trading strength for lightness at some point becomes failure. This design didn't make sense to me when I first saw it on top of the line Evo road bikes but it seems to be working out reasonably well for them, or at least I haven't heard of any similar failures. I would think there must be a difference in the drive line forces between a road bike and a fat bike though, with the fat bike being more stressful on drive line components it would seem. With only a few of these Fat CAAD's out in the wild and already we've heard of two similar chain ring failures I would think the Spidering may not be the best component for this application.

    For the record I'm a huge Cannondale fan but this Spidering is a turnoff for me.

  38. #38
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    Its not broken, its just one of the new cannonfail asymmetrical/ovalized chainrings - this is how they make them.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  39. #39
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    Guess they really are trying to compete with Bikes Direct.



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  40. #40
    dying hurts.
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    oh no! back to crack n' fail!

  41. #41
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    Eh, my bikes direct hasn't folded any chainrings. They just wear out in 90 miles. (No joke :P)

  42. #42
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    Are you guys seriously blaming direct mount chainrings?

  43. #43
    All fat, all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    Is your customer named Chuck Norris?
    /thread
    Massive power yo!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    Its not broken, its just one of the new cannonfail asymmetrical/ovalized chainrings - this is how they make them.
    This is their new 'Lefty' chainring to accompany their fork.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Are you guys seriously blaming direct mount chainrings?
    I didn't intend the post to read that way, I think the SpideRing looks thin in critical areas. Wolftooth's Hollowgram ring looks beefier for example. Also, on the cannondale site this bike is spec'd with a fat offset 30t ring. It also looks like the offset is different between road and MTB. Maybe it was a bad batch of heat treating.

  46. #46
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    A chainring and its mount seems like a daft place to go to extremes to save weight.

    Even if it doesn't fold, it will be flexing and absorbing energy that is best applied to the back wheel.

    It strikes me as a place where steel with a decent thickness still has it place.

    However anything that's as thin as a biscuit tin lid is going to be fragile, so maybe the real problem is with 11 speed gear systems.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  47. #47
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    My best bud just got one of those bikes, looks great in person IMO. I did think it looked like they machined the crap out of the chain ring though, it was something I noticed, but I've never broken a ring before so it isn't something I really ever gave much thought to. It will be interesting to see of this is the exception....

  48. #48
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    FWIW, I think those chainrings are forged, not machined. I've seen quite a few of the road bike double versions.

    I also notice the gear selection of this bike in the picture. So was the owner TRYING to break something? Looks like the owner took the bike home and proceeded to mash the gears in the neighborhood to see if fatbikes really are fast. Is this guy a roadie?

    FWIW, a friend of mine destroyed the steel granny ring on his mtb on a long ride a few years ago. He was on a double crankset, and had to big ring it on some 30% grades. Needless to say, he did a lot of walking that day.

    I'm running a taco bash on ISCG mounts on my Bucksaw with 1x drivetrain. I honestly like the taco bash quite a bit better than using a bash ring.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    FWIW, I think those chainrings are forged, not machined. I've seen quite a few of the road bike double versions.
    You can machine forged stuff.

  50. #50
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    With that kind of chain ring damage the Olaf is obviously toast as well. I'll buy it off you for $20 and $10 shipping. PM your address.

  51. #51
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    Update: Cannondale upgraded the crank set with a Hollowgram si and an Ultegra chain a few days ago.
    carbonLORD /// KILOMETER

  52. #52
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    resurrecting this thread... unfortunately! My ring folded exactly like this while crossing the street... on could say JRA. I did put about 5 months of riding onto it with a few log grind-overs but the area it folds is where the left crankarm would hit so I think that's prob not the stressor. The discussion here uses other C'dale single rings as an example but the fatcaad uses a special fatbike offset, basically the ring is dished and I think that makes it weak. I vote changing it to STEEL for a lot of extra strength and malleability. Also, two big issues with the 1x11 system: when a ring poops out then your day is over and you're walking out. second is that when the ring bent, it tweaked the 11 speed skinny chain so next ride after getting the replacement ring on, the chain would fold over the side of the ring on a hard effort... which in turn fuggered up the new ring!!! DAMNNN
    Feel the Bern!!!

  53. #53
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    Absolute Black makes one for the Hollowgram Crank. And it has the proper offset. I have one on my plus bike that also has the offset.

    absoluteBLACK | Cannondale Round DM chainrings

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    Last edited by prj71; 05-12-2016 at 04:41 AM.

  54. #54
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    I need the 9mm offset, they don't currently make them. I will forge one from iron myself...
    Feel the Bern!!!

  55. #55
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    Soooo... this just happened to me. Pancake. I'll be making some calls tomorrow but it seems like this is a common problem. Is Cannondale doing replacements for these? I was going into a pretty easy uphill at speed and didn't think I hit anything but just assumed I must have somehow bottomed out on one of the roots in the trail. Now I'm thinking otherwise... How the heck do you upload images on here? It keeps giving me an error with a basic .jpg file.

  56. #56
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    Ah, got it. Had to resize. It was bent 90 degrees on the trail. Tried to straighten it enough to ride out but no luck.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat CAAD chain ring explosion!-20160908_200722.jpg  


  57. #57
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    So was this incident of self destroying rings isolated to the CAAD? Is anyone else folding rings or just whacking them on ****?

    I ask because I'm going to a race face direct mount crank/ring (aeffect) and will be single speeding on it.

  58. #58
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    if you look where the ring is folding (directly opposite the right crank arm) then it's not from hitting it on #[email protected]%!$^ because the left crank arm is there and would hit before the bendy/breaky part would. I've always bent rings in the area between where the arms are...
    Feel the Bern!!!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch2 View Post
    if you look where the ring is folding (directly opposite the right crank arm) then it's not from hitting it on #[email protected]%!$^ because the left crank arm is there and would hit before the bendy/breaky part would. I've always bent rings in the area between where the arms are...
    It's interesting that the two photos in this thread are consistent with the failure point opposite of the pedal end of the crank arm. This is the area of the chainring where the highest torque is applied while pedaling. I'm a 'grinder" that just purchased a new Fat CAAD 1 and I will try my best to spin more.

    The Cannondale website recommends that the 1x MTB SpideRing is rotated 90 degrees as a maintenance operation to maximize the longevity.

  60. #60
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    Holy thread revival, it's a zombie!!

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridewithriley View Post
    It's interesting that the two photos in this thread are consistent with the failure point opposite of the pedal end of the crank arm. This is the area of the chainring where the highest torque is applied while pedaling. I'm a 'grinder" that just purchased a new Fat CAAD 1 and I will try my best to spin more.

    The Cannondale website recommends that the 1x MTB SpideRing is rotated 90 degrees as a maintenance operation to maximize the longevity.

    thats interesting. i thought hollowgram DM rings had wee flat areas to orientate them. *that* makes me wonder if the other dm spider rings can be flipped because the snow one has massive offset, no?
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

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  62. #62
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    Yes the 1x SpideRing has a 9mm offset.

    I'm just entering the Cannondale BB30 world with my Fat CAAD but the photos of the KP405 30 tooth chain ring on the Cannondale Experts parts page show splines that look symmetric, which supports the Cannondale Tech advice to rotate them for max longevity.

    The ring is not to be flipped over but removed from the splined spindle and rotated 90 degrees and reinstalled.

    I don't know about the other DM rings.

  63. #63
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    the flipping thing is for 177mm bb o 197 rear hub type set ups. with cinch, you flip, or use a wolftooth reverse dish...the cannondale offset is a little more, i think cos their set up is nearer a 160 equivalent bb type set up...at least, afaik!
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

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