Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length

    It seems that info on spoke lengths for wheel building for fat bikes is a little difficult to determine (at least for me), especially for offset wheels for Pugsley and the like. So, I thought it might be nice to have a thread with info on what combinations people have used to successfully build their wheels.

    I'll start with my rear wheel Pugsley build:
    Hub - Shimano M756 6-bolt rear disc hub, 135 mm, 32 hole
    Rim - Vicious Cycles Graceful Fat Sheba (single wall), 32 hole, offset drilled
    Spokes - 260 mm 14 g. DT both sides
    Nipples - 12 mm brass

    This built up pretty nicely. I don't have a truing stand that will accomodate the hub and additional spacer required for a Pugsley build, so I clamped the fork in my Park workstand and mounted the wheel on it. Used twist ties on both sides as truing gauges and sighted down the steerer tube to get it dished correctly.

    edit - forgot to add 3x build for both sides
    Last edited by kgginslc; 01-18-2010 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #2
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    Isn't it the same as inputing an offset for an asymmetrical rim into the spoke length calculator, just with offsets for both sides?
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  3. #3
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    I built my 100mm rims to an Alfine IGH with 250mm Alpine III's (both sides) and to a Surly disk/freewheel hub with 260mm. Spoke offset ended up about 20.5mm for the NDS and 25mm for the DS.

    See a few wheelbuild pics via my build thread here.
    And read all about the boring calculations here.

    That second thread has some helpful diagrams courtesy of forum-user, meltingfeather.
    Last edited by CLONG; 01-18-2010 at 01:40 PM.
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  4. #4
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    I'd estimate I've built 100+ fat rims (LM's, 70's, 80's, and 100's) over the past 4-5 years. Unless I was using an oddball hub with non-3x lacing (Rohloff, for example) the spoke lengths have almost always come out to between 258 and 260.

    I dare say you could safely use 259 on almost any fat build out there.

    But don't blame me if it doesn't work!

    MC

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Isn't it the same as inputing an offset for an asymmetrical rim into the spoke length calculator, just with offsets for both sides?
    I don't know - that for me, is the problem. Do you enter the offest as a positive or negative number since it's in the opposite direction of your typical offset spoke bed?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLONG

    See a few wheelbuild pics via my build thread here.
    Good to have links to those discussions here. I read that first discussion and it inspired me to go Full Metal Jacket for my brakes as well. I think I didn't manage to get the bends quite as smooth as yours, but I did take the metal tubing all the way into the brake itself - no intermediate cable run. One thing I neglected to anticipate was that it makes getting the rear wheel off a bit more difficult - there's just enough give to manage it though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgginslc

    I don't know - that for me, is the problem. Do you enter the offest as a positive or negative number since it's in the opposite direction of your typical offset spoke bed?
    I don't know, either. I haven't built any offset wheels, but notice the offset box on some of the spoke calculators I use. I think it'd be the same result as subtracting the difference from the center-to-flange offset.

    But then there was a discussion I read in the last week or so asking if the spokes should cross for increased stability -- left flange crossing to right spoke bed, and right flange crossing to left spoke bed. Seemed like a neat idea to explore 'cept that the spoke holes angle out in the wrong direction. Oh well...
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    I'd estimate I've built 100+ fat rims (LM's, 70's, 80's, and 100's) over the past 4-5 years. Unless I was using an oddball hub with non-3x lacing (Rohloff, for example) the spoke lengths have almost always come out to between 258 and 260.

    I dare say you could safely use 259 on almost any fat build out there.

    But don't blame me if it doesn't work!

    MC
    Even if it's not true 100% of the time, it's good to have a rule of thumb. I'm going to build up another set in the next year or so, so thanks, Mike.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgginslc
    Good to have links to those discussions here. I read that first discussion and it inspired me to go Full Metal Jacket for my brakes as well. I think I didn't manage to get the bends quite as smooth as yours, but I did take the metal tubing all the way into the brake itself - no intermediate cable run. One thing I neglected to anticipate was that it makes getting the rear wheel off a bit more difficult - there's just enough give to manage it though.
    That's cool! I was pretty lazy about the bends. I just tried it because I saw it on the Jones blog. There's a simple bending tutorial on Instructables. For the fork I bent around a 32T bashguard.
    Also, I actually used a very short piece of the braided hose at the end of both runs of FMJ to aid wheel removal and brake adjustment, it's just hidden under the long rubber boot that extends from the caliper.
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  9. #9
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    I'll second what Mike said on the spoke length. 258 or 260 is what I've used for Large Marge Offset drilling rims with either Surly or Maverick hubs. And 234 and 236 for a Rohloff with a Large Marge. Next time I'll just get one size splitting the difference and make it simpler.

  10. #10
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    I need help with length calculation for a 80mm rim and Nexus 8v. Always spoke length is larger than is needed.

    Do i have to take in ming the wide of the rim?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kypa View Post
    I need help with length calculation for a 80mm rim and Nexus 8v. Always spoke length is larger than is needed.

    Do i have to take in ming the wide of the rim?
    Rim width makes no difference. Tell us what kind of rim, how many spokes, how many spoke crosses, how much the wheel is offset, if the rim is offset, etc. and people here should be able to help.

  12. #12
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    Thank you.

    Rim us a robs'son rim 26' x 80mm. ERD is 548mm and the spoke holes are 20mm from the center of the rim.
    Spoke number is 36, 3 crosses.

    front hub | Rear hub Nexus 8v
    A 28,3 | A 32,2
    B 18,1 | B 42,7
    OLD 99,8 | OLD 134,5
    WL lado disco 21,6 | WL 35,05
    WR 31,8 | WR 24,55
    s 2,6 | s 2,6
    d dl = dr 58 | d dl = dr 92
    flange distance 55 | flange distance 55
    N spokes 36 | N spokes 36

    My last result are the following:

    RearWheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548,0 0 228,7 228,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 0,0 1 231,9 231,3
    WL, width from center to left flange 30,0 2 241,1 240,5
    WR, width from center to right flange 24,5 3 254,6 254,0
    dL, left flange diameter 92,0 4 270,2 269,7
    dR, right flange diameter 92,0 3,00 254,6 254,0
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6


    Front Wheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548,0 0 244,7 245,8
    OSB, offset spoke bed 0,0 1 246,6 247,7
    WL, width from center to left flange 21,6 2 252,1 253,2
    WR, width from center to right flange 31,8 3 260,3 261,3
    dL, left flange diameter 58,0 4 270,0 271,0
    dR, right flange diameter 58,0 3,00 260,3 261,3
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 21,6
    WR_effective = W + OSB 31,8

  13. #13
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    Hi y'all. I would feel a little more comfortable starting my wheelbuild (Pugsley offset) if anyone could confirm if I'm right on these calculations:

    Front Surly New disc on FlatTop 80;
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 540,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 10,0
    WL, width from center to left flange 16,5
    WR, width from center to right flange 56,0
    dL, left flange diameter 58,0
    dR, right flange diameter 58,0 3,00 256,9 259,6
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,4
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W + OSB 26,5
    WR_effective = W - OSB 46,0

    REAR: Shimano XT disc FH-M756 on FlatTop 80
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 540,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 10,0
    WL, width from center to left flange 14,7
    WR, width from center to right flange 36,1
    dL, left flange diameter 61,0
    dR, right flange diameter 61,0 3,00 254,9 258,9
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 4,7
    WR_effective = W + OSB 46,1

    Thanks for any help and/or comments.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Z View Post
    Hi y'all. I would feel a little more comfortable starting my wheelbuild (Pugsley offset) if anyone could confirm if I'm right on these calculations:

    Front Surly New disc on FlatTop 80;
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 540,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 10,0
    WL, width from center to left flange 16,5
    WR, width from center to right flange 56,0
    dL, left flange diameter 58,0
    dR, right flange diameter 58,0 3,00 256,9 259,6
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,4
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W + OSB 26,5
    WR_effective = W - OSB 46,0

    REAR: Shimano XT disc FH-M756 on FlatTop 80
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 540,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 10,0
    WL, width from center to left flange 14,7
    WR, width from center to right flange 36,1
    dL, left flange diameter 61,0
    dR, right flange diameter 61,0 3,00 254,9 258,9
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 4,7
    WR_effective = W + OSB 46,1

    Thanks for any help and/or comments.
    I think you are entering something wrong. There is no way the rear wheel will end up with one flange only 4.7 mm from the center. Likewise the 14.7 to start with on the front doesn't sound right.

    Even if the rim is offset 10 mm, on the Pugsley the hubs will be offset 17.5 mm.

    What hubs are you using?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kypa View Post
    Thank you.

    Rim us a robs'son rim 26' x 80mm. ERD is 548mm and the spoke holes are 20mm from the center of the rim.
    Spoke number is 36, 3 crosses.

    front hub | Rear hub Nexus 8v
    A 28,3 | A 32,2
    B 18,1 | B 42,7
    OLD 99,8 | OLD 134,5
    WL lado disco 21,6 | WL 35,05
    WR 31,8 | WR 24,55
    s 2,6 | s 2,6
    d dl = dr 58 | d dl = dr 92
    flange distance 55 | flange distance 55
    N spokes 36 | N spokes 36

    My last result are the following:

    RearWheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548,0 0 228,7 228,0
    OSB, offset spoke bed 0,0 1 231,9 231,3
    WL, width from center to left flange 30,0 2 241,1 240,5
    WR, width from center to right flange 24,5 3 254,6 254,0
    dL, left flange diameter 92,0 4 270,2 269,7
    dR, right flange diameter 92,0 3,00 254,6 254,0
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6


    Front Wheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548,0 0 244,7 245,8
    OSB, offset spoke bed 0,0 1 246,6 247,7
    WL, width from center to left flange 21,6 2 252,1 253,2
    WR, width from center to right flange 31,8 3 260,3 261,3
    dL, left flange diameter 58,0 4 270,0 271,0
    dR, right flange diameter 58,0 3,00 260,3 261,3
    S, spoke hole diameter 2,6
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3,00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 21,6
    WR_effective = W + OSB 31,8
    I am not familier with those rims so don't know if all the spoke holes are offset to the same side or if they are staggered. However before we get there I see a couple of issues:

    1. On your list of dimensions for the rear hub you list WL as 35.05 but when you put that number into the spreadsheet it was put in at 30.0.

    2. If the rear is on an offset bike, such as the Pugsley, then you have to calculate that offset into the hub, the width from center to left flange should decrease by 17.5 and the width from center to right flange should be increased by 17.5.

    3. The rim offset needs to be put into the spreadsheet as well. If it is 20 mm all to one side than put it into the spreadsheet so that it makes the left spokes longer and the right spokes shorter.

    If I've missed something or screwed it up I'm sure someone will chime in.

  16. #16
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    thank you for your answers.
    My hub is a shimano nexus 8v coaster brake.
    All the spoke holes are offset the same distance from the center of the rim.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I think you are entering something wrong. There is no way the rear wheel will end up with one flange only 4.7 mm from the center. Likewise the 14.7 to start with on the front doesn't sound right.

    Even if the rim is offset 10 mm, on the Pugsley the hubs will be offset 17.5 mm.

    What hubs are you using?
    Thanks for your comment, Sryanak. As you mentioned to kypa, I calculated the offset of 17,5 mm into the hub ("the width from center to left flange should decrease by 17.5 and the width from center to right flange should be increased by 17.5"). As I'm not that proficient with Excell I may have entered wrong WL and WR values for the rear hub (Shimano XT FH-M756 disc) which should be 19,5 resp. 42,2 mm. Spokelengths then will be 255 mm nonDS and 260,1 DS. Offset on the rim is 10 mm, all to one (drive-)side.

    If I'm doing something wrong here, please correct me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Z View Post
    Thanks for your comment, Sryanak. As you mentioned to kypa, I calculated the offset of 17,5 mm into the hub ("the width from center to left flange should decrease by 17.5 and the width from center to right flange should be increased by 17.5"). As I'm not that proficient with Excell I may have entered wrong WL and WR values for the rear hub (Shimano XT FH-M756 disc) which should be 19,5 resp. 42,2 mm. Spokelengths then will be 255 mm nonDS and 260,1 DS. Offset on the rim is 10 mm, all to one (drive-)side.

    If I'm doing something wrong here, please correct me.
    Frank, I think there is still an error somewhere. For your rear wheel, when I enter the data for the M756 hubs into the spoccalc spreadsheet I get spoke lengths of 259.9 l and 260.2 r respectivly using the 19.5 and 42.2 flange spacings and 45 mm diameters (you used 61 mm diameters) It could be that you have a larger flange hub than that listed in the spoke calc database. If yours are really 61 mm then the spoke lengths would be 256.5 and 256.8by my calculations. I think the reason your right and left differ by so much is that you entered the rim offset as a positive on the rear wheel. Put it in negative and it makes the lengths work much better.

    For your front wheel, I was able to verify your calculations.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kypa View Post
    thank you for your answers.
    My hub is a shimano nexus 8v coaster brake.
    All the spoke holes are offset the same distance from the center of the rim.
    Kypa, I'm sorry but I am not coming up with a definitive answer. I can only find slightly conflicting dimensions for the Nexus 8V hub on Sheldon Browns site and a nother Shimano site and they don't really match what you have. The other two are close so if I plug them in I get:

    Rear Wheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548.0 0 228.8 227.5
    OSB, offset spoke bed -20.0 1 232.1 230.8
    WL, wdth frm center to left flange 14.3 2 241.4 240.1
    WR, wdth frm cntr to right flange 44.0 3 254.9 253.7
    dL, left flange diameter 92.6 4 270.6 269.5
    dR, right flange diameter 92.6 3.00 254.9 253.7
    S, spoke hole diameter 2.9
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3.00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 34.3
    WR_effective = W + OSB 24.0

    So hopefully 254mm spokes would work for both. 254.9 and 253.7 if you could get exact lengths.

    As for your front hub.

    If you are using a 100mm front hub you can't use a rim with a 20 mm offset. Your hub is starting out with a 21.6 mm left flange spacing. If you offset the rim holes 20 mm left then the spokes go straight up and down. If you flip the rim over you then only get an 11.8 mm offset between the rim holes and the right hub flange and that is still to close given that the other side is now offset 41.6 mm. Could you have the rims redrilled to say a 5 mm offset which would give you spokes of exactly the same length (assuming the 21.6 WL , 31.8 WR and 58 D values are correct. I couldn't find this hub anywhere to verify those numbers)? If those are correct then a 5 mm offset drilled rim gives 260.9 mm spokes on both sides. The additional holes should not compromise rim strength unless it already has a bunch of holes in it.

    My last unhelpful question is are you sure about the ERD of 548 that seems pretty big to me but I am not familier with that rim.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Frank, I think there is still an error somewhere. ...45 mm diameters (you used 61 mm diameters). ... I think the reason your right and left differ by so much is that you entered the rim offset as a positive on the rear wheel. Put it in negative and it makes the lengths work much better.

    For your front wheel, I was able to verify your calculations.
    It's exactly as you stated. I can order the spokes now. Thanks alot!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Kypa, I'm sorry but I am not coming up with a definitive answer. I can only find slightly conflicting dimensions for the Nexus 8V hub on Sheldon Browns site and a nother Shimano site and they don't really match what you have. The other two are close so if I plug them in I get:

    Rear Wheel Input Data Output Data
    N, total number of spokes 36 cross left length right length
    ERD, effective rim diameter 548.0 0 228.8 227.5
    OSB, offset spoke bed -20.0 1 232.1 230.8
    WL, wdth frm center to left flange 14.3 2 241.4 240.1
    WR, wdth frm cntr to right flange 44.0 3 254.9 253.7
    dL, left flange diameter 92.6 4 270.6 269.5
    dR, right flange diameter 92.6 3.00 254.9 253.7
    S, spoke hole diameter 2.9
    X, cross number (decimal allowed)(optional) 3.00
    WL_effective = W - OSB 34.3
    WR_effective = W + OSB 24.0

    So hopefully 254mm spokes would work for both. 254.9 and 253.7 if you could get exact lengths.

    As for your front hub.

    If you are using a 100mm front hub you can't use a rim with a 20 mm offset. Your hub is starting out with a 21.6 mm left flange spacing. If you offset the rim holes 20 mm left then the spokes go straight up and down. If you flip the rim over you then only get an 11.8 mm offset between the rim holes and the right hub flange and that is still to close given that the other side is now offset 41.6 mm. Could you have the rims redrilled to say a 5 mm offset which would give you spokes of exactly the same length (assuming the 21.6 WL , 31.8 WR and 58 D values are correct. I couldn't find this hub anywhere to verify those numbers)? If those are correct then a 5 mm offset drilled rim gives 260.9 mm spokes on both sides. The additional holes should not compromise rim strength unless it already has a bunch of holes in it.

    My last unhelpful question is are you sure about the ERD of 548 that seems pretty big to me but I am not familier with that rim.
    I make some measurements, and i'm waitin for the fabricator answer, I think is the correct ERD -+1 0r 2 mm. The rim is this one:
    I can post links but is the robsson point de, and then 26' x 80mm doble wide.



    Now i'm going to cut 5mm my spokes. I was trying to mount the wheel, but the spokes are too long with the calculation, but I see the finishing mount and i think 5 mm will be right.

    When I do it i will comment you.




    Thank you for all your help.

  22. #22
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    Anyone done Large Marge 24" DH 32H? Surly New Disc Front Hub Quick Release 32 hole Black and Shimano Deore M525 Rear Disc Hub 32 hole Black. Need to know spoke lengths. End result using Berm Master tires 24 x 3.0 on a Surly Instigator 16" with Instigator front fork.

  23. #23
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Any chance someone could either tell me spoke length or provide critical dimensions for building these wheels?

    Hadley Fatback 170mm Rear Hub
    Surly Marge Lite (65mm) Rim
    3x
    Drive Flange spokes to Drive Side rim holes and Non-Drive flange to Non-Drive rim holes


    Hope FatSno 170mm Rear Hub
    Speedway Uma 50mm Rims
    3x

    For the hubs, I guess I need:
    -Pitch Circle Diameter
    -Flange Distance
    -Spoke Hole Diameter

    For the Rims, I need ERD.

    I'll continue to do more research to see if I can figure it out, but if someone already has these dims or spoke lengths, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
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  24. #24
    nvphatty
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    heck i'll add mine to the list and see.

    Pugsley frame
    rims = marge lites ERD 543
    CK 135mm rear disc hub 32h QR
    Paul WHUB disc front 32h QR
    DT comp spokes & pro lock brass 12mm nips
    Last edited by nvphatty; 04-05-2012 at 08:57 AM.

  25. #25
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    I ordered rims and spokes tonight...let's hope my, my brother's and the guy at QBP's calculations are right as we all came up with 263. Well, after calculating the length a few times on QBP's site my brother and I came up with 263 for 3/4 of the spokes and 262 for 1/4 of them. So, a quick call to the tech folk in Minnesota and he confirmed the measurement.

    Hope's new 170 rear and 135 front hub laced to Rolling Darryls laced 3X

    Will certainly let you know when I try and build them.

  26. #26
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    Addendum, 2+ years later:

    With all of the new singlewall rims (specifically Surly ML's, Darryls, and 'shoes) the new "standard" spoke length seems to have become 263. Occasionally a 262 or 264 will find it's way into the mix, but offset or centered, 65, 80, or 100, 263 seems to be the magic number.

    As you were...

  27. #27
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Thanks Mike, this worked well for me.

    So my setup was:
    Rear 170mm Hadley Fatback hub, 32 hole
    Surly Marge Lite
    3x, with spokes going to their respective sides (symmetrical wheel build)

    263mm length
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  28. #28
    nvphatty
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    ordered

    263mm DT comp spokes / nips order processed for marge lites, CK 135 rear, paul WHUB front.
    My parts bin is near full for the assembly.

  29. #29
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    Copying that from another thread as it may fit in here as well.

    Large Marge DH offset, 36H + Rohloff laced 2X required 232 mm on both sides.
    Large Marge XC centered, 36H + SON 28 laced 2X required 246 mm on the left and 248 mm on the right.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Thanks Mike, this worked well for me.

    So my setup was:
    Rear 170mm Hadley Fatback hub, 32 hole
    Surly Marge Lite
    3x, with spokes going to their respective sides (symmetrical wheel build)

    263mm length
    I used the 264mm spokes that came with the Fatback build. Greg provided the Hadley measurements and I measured the ERD of the UMA and the Neon Trials rims, both came out to 546mm ERD. I think that 1mm is okay, the wheel I built is straight and solid (so far)

  31. #31
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    Anyone help with spoke length ?

    Looking to build a set of new wheels up...

    Hope fatsno's 170mm rear 135mm front.
    Marge lites (erd 543)
    DT Supercomps or comps.

    Rather than ordering hubs and rims then measuring for spokes, has anyone laced a set ?

    Many thanks in advance.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Anyone help with spoke length ?

    Looking to build a set of new wheels up...

    Hope fatsno's 170mm rear 135mm front.
    Marge lites (erd 543)
    DT Supercomps or comps.

    Rather than ordering hubs and rims then measuring for spokes, has anyone laced a set ?

    Many thanks in advance.
    I'll let you know in a few days. I'm building the exact same wheels myself (except I went with Revolution spokes). UPS comes today with the rest of my parts. Ordered 263mm spokes based on this thread.

  33. #33
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    263mm is perfect.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-img_0666.jpg  


  34. #34
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    Thanks SmooveP, 263 it is then......rep coming you way.

    Cheers
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  35. #35
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    I need the spoke lengths for a pair of rolling Darills, Cannondale Lefty hub in the front asymmetrical and then a 170mm Hope pro II hub in the back, 3 cross will do.

    thanks for sharing your know how

  36. #36
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    Looking good smooveP.... are they brass nipples ? Silver crossed my mind but thought black, now the silver is back in play and revos with brass nipples would be just as strong, your wheels look awesome !
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Looking good smooveP.... are they brass nipples ? Silver crossed my mind but thought black, now the silver is back in play and revos with brass nipples would be just as strong, your wheels look awesome !
    Yeah, stock silver brass nipples that came with the spokes. Meant to do blue aluminum ones, but forgot to order them. These Revos are skinny. I'm worried.

  38. #38
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    You should be good, the brass nipples make a big difference to strength. Considering using them myself now that ive seen them laced. $75au at Jensons
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    For what it is worth (for future searchers), I found 263mm to be the magic number with Hope's and Darryl's too.

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    With all these wheels being built, I have to ask, what final spoke tension did you shoot for?

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    can't speak for the others, and I used a park tension meter, I shot for about 17 on the meter. Way lower than other wheels I have built, but I was led to believe (by other forum threads) it was appropriate for the rims. Holding true thus far.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    can't speak for the others, and I used a park tension meter, I shot for about 17 on the meter. Way lower than other wheels I have built, but I was led to believe (by other forum threads) it was appropriate for the rims. Holding true thus far.
    What gauge spokes did you use?

  43. #43
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    On regular 29er wheels with supercomps (1.7mm) i hope for 20ish DS and 15ish NDS usually, i reckon i was very similar with the fat wheels. I try for 100kgf with every set of wheels i build.
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  44. #44
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    OK I've got a slightly wierd one....

    I have a GFS 80mm rim laced to a Project 321 lefty hub, with loads of dish to clear a fat lefty. In fact a little more dish than I'd like. I'm tempted to cross lace the spoke (from one hub flange to the opposite rim drilling). Logic says I'd need longer spokes. But inclined to believe I'd be able to make it work by relacing the ones I have....

    Yay or nay?
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  45. #45
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    With all of the new singlewall rims (specifically Surly ML's, Darryls, and 'shoes) the new "standard" spoke length seems to have become 263. Occasionally a 262 or 264 will find it's way into the mix, but offset or centered, 65, 80, or 100, 263 seems to be the magic number.
    Just wanted to thank Mikesee in particular for sharing his knowledge--after reading this I felt comfortable ordering a box of 263mm supercomps on sale and used them to lace up a cannondale lefty hub and a hope fatsno, both to marge lites, worked great. Thanks a bunch! Now I have a summer wheelset for a few weeks until the snow starts to fly...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by montana_ben View Post
    ordering a box of 263mm supercomps on sale
    Where did you order from...??

  47. #47
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    From Jenson...spokes and alloy nips in box of 72. Discovered I like brass nips better...but it worked.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by montana_ben View Post
    From Jenson...spokes and alloy nips in box of 72. Discovered I like brass nips better...but it worked.
    Cool thanks

  49. #49
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    Just did the maiden voyage on the new wheels - Marge Lites + Hopes + Revolution spokes. Heard some pinging and popping, but I think it was my knees. Dropped over a pound from my existing wheels and they still felt plenty stiff. Got the tension up to 17-18 on the TM-1.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    263mm DT comp spokes / nips order processed for marge lites, CK 135 rear, paul WHUB front.
    My parts bin is near full for the assembly.
    Everything assem without a hitch so muchas gracias to mikesee and others for making the info avail to us.

  51. #51
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    Resurrecting old thread.

    What I need to take into consideration when I'm trying to build a budget front wheel without offset, especially the spoke length.

    My plan currently is that I get my Robs'son 80mm 36H rim, buy a hub for it and then spokes.

    Now my limitation is that I need to use 36H hub, either cheapo 135mm rear hub, or surly new 135mm rear (fixed/freewheel?) hub. If I use surly hub, the wheel should be easy to build as it's gonna be symmetrical. But how about if I use cheapo shimano rear hub, it's not gonna be that symmetric anymore, right?

    How on earth can I choose the right spokes? (other than just taking the hub and rim to a wheel builder nearby)

  52. #52
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    Spocalc, by Damon Rinard. A free Excel spoke length calculator.

    I like the excel version cause you can cacluate spoke length down to the nats ass. I used it for a fat front build which let me account for the offset holes in the rim and hub flange diameters and locations.

  53. #53
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    Try to play a little with Freespoke.

  54. #54
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    Thanks Sas, that excel looks very intuitive to me. I will try that to check what should I do. Freespoke doesn't work with my PC for some reason right now.

    What problems wrong size spokes can cause when building the wheel?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfurry View Post
    OK I've got a slightly wierd one....

    I have a GFS 80mm rim laced to a Project 321 lefty hub, with loads of dish to clear a fat lefty. In fact a little more dish than I'd like. I'm tempted to cross lace the spoke (from one hub flange to the opposite rim drilling). Logic says I'd need longer spokes. But inclined to believe I'd be able to make it work by relacing the ones I have....

    Yay or nay?
    I used and contributed to freespoke
    https://kstoerz.com/freespoke/fullcalc
    The 321 hub is not in there but you should check it is most likely the same as the cannondale lefty hub (my circus monkey hub was) For my fat build used left set of holes only with 261 spokes on the left and 263 on the right.

    The nice thing about freespoke is that it gives the spoke bed offset as a editable field with a graphic of what you will get as well as tensions of both sides. So try different options and see what tensions and crosses you like. I ran several for each of my 4 wheel builds and all have worked out fantastic.

    The hope hubs, and the surly wheels are all in his database, even an alfine 11 made it's way in there which I built up for a fatback with a spacer.





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  56. #56
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    this thread
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/mar...on-762472.html
    may be of interest too....
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

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  57. #57
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    Lacing an offset fat sheba

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Addendum, 2+ years later:

    With all of the new singlewall rims (specifically Surly ML's, Darryls, and 'shoes) the new "standard" spoke length seems to have become 263. Occasionally a 262 or 264 will find it's way into the mix, but offset or centered, 65, 80, or 100, 263 seems to be the magic number.

    As you were...
    Mike,

    Do you have a magic number of spoke length for an 80mm fat sheba and an alfine 8 and/or 11 IGH? Can't seem to find a solid way of figuring it out.

    Thanks, Wil

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikecycology View Post
    Mike,

    Do you have a magic number of spoke length for an 80mm fat sheba and an alfine 8 and/or 11 IGH? Can't seem to find a solid way of figuring it out.

    Thanks, Wil
    Nope, sorry.

  59. #59
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    Wrong size in what way?. Too long you will end up with a wheel that you are unable to build to adequate tension. 1200N or 120KGF is a general rule of thumb for wheel building a well built wheel with this tension will hold up fine with out any sort of thread locker or spoke prep. With spokes that are too long and under tension it is likely to start breaking spokes at the head. With spokes that are too short, if you are able to even lace the thing you run the risk of ripping the spokes out of the nipple or possibly breaking the nipples depending on penetration depth and nipple material. Another thing with fat bike builds if you are too long on a single wall rim you are going to end up with threads sticking out the back of the nipple which poses a threat to your tube and adds labor to your build because you are either going to rebuild with the correct length spoke or take a file to the excess spoke and remove what is sticking out.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbent View Post
    1200N or 120KGF is a general rule of thumb f.
    That is true for doublewall rims, but seems, generally speaking, to be far too much for singlewall.

    It is almost unbelievable how much a singlewall rim deforms even at ~70kgf. Some much more than others. You can see it with nekkid eyes just running the driver to get started.

    The 'science' of building with singlewall rims is still young and needs extensive scrutiny and experimentation. I currently limit my tension to ~100kgf on singlewall fat rims, less depending on model.

    MC

  61. #61
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    I agree that lacing any rim too quickly causes deformation. Asymmetrical even more so depending how quickly you are trying to lace. Lacing too quickly does not save you much time during the build at all...if it doesnt end up costing you more in the long run.

    Two of the new surly rims are not a true single but more of a faux double wall. I've noticed that all of these new fat rims handle tensions better when they are not an offset build. I have built a decent amount on all of these asymmetrical and non offset with tensions exceeding the ones i stated with out any issues of nipples pulling the spoke bed and have seen considerable use. The other thing with the new surly rims is that they are welded and your typical single wall rim is not. I think that you could get away with higher tensions especially on non offset builds. Are you finding 'flowering' at tensions above 1000N ?

  62. #62
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    Does anyone know the ERD of a robsson.de double wall 26" x 100mm rim?

    DW100, 26", schwarz eloxiert, 36h - Robs'son GmbH

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    Conformation required please.

    I have Marge lite rims, Hope Pro 2 EVO Fatsno rear hub and Hope 2 Evo 9x100 front hub.

    Do I order DT Comp spokes in a 263mm length for both front and rear wheels?

    Many thanks !

  64. #64
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    Post deleted.... didnt read your post correctly lostraveller, my info is not relevant for 100mm front hubs.
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  65. #65
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    I always try to find a compromise length that works on both sides of both wheels. So far I have found that if a spoke is withing 2mm shorter or 1mm longer than the calculated length, it will work.
    --Peace

  66. #66
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    Hope pro 2 FRONT HUB ( 9 x 100 ) with Marge Lite. SPOKE LENGTH ???????

    Has anyone built a front wheel with a Marge Lite and a Hope Pro 2 Front Hub ( 9 x 100 ). My Freespoke search came up with Left - 261.4 and Right 262.4.

    Your advice would be much appreciated.

    My rear wheel ( Marge Lite and Hope Fatsno 170 ) came out at 263 which seems to match the advice earlier.
    Last edited by lostraveller; 04-21-2013 at 05:21 AM.

  67. #67
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    Hi all,

    I have an interesting potential problem where the hub width is the same as the "Rim Hole Width". My concern is that this would cause the wheel to be weak with side to side forces. I cannot use different hubs or rims, and the rim is going to be dished 15mm to one side. The bike is for downhill riding.
    Does anyone know of any special patterns, where some spokes go from the left side of the hub to the right side of the rim for example? (if so how would I calculate the spoke lengths?)


    Here is what I mean by

    HUB WIDTH
    Name:  SpokeCalc_HubWidth.gif
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    RIM HOLE WIDTH
    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-img_20130613_154028.jpg
    (this is the actual robsson.de rim I'm using)

  68. #68
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    Use Freespoke:
    Freespoke

    You can put in negative numbers for the wheel spoke bed offset and hub offset, and it even gives you a diagram of what the spokes will look like.

    Also:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/any...im-799284.html
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kos F View Post
    Hi all,

    I have an interesting potential problem where the hub width is the same as the "Rim Hole Width". My concern is that this would cause the wheel to be weak with side to side forces. I cannot use different hubs or rims, and the rim is going to be dished 15mm to one side. The bike is for downhill riding.
    Does anyone know of any special patterns, where some spokes go from the left side of the hub to the right side of the rim for example? (if so how would I calculate the spoke lengths?)
    Yes, use Freespoke. What you are doing is a crosslaced wheel. Each side should be a 3x (3 cross) pattern, but reaching thru to the other side of the wheel. From my experience, there will be a pair of each 3 spokes that will also cross as they go across each other - that's just a minor lacing issue.

    More important! When crosslacing, the leverage of the spokes against the wheel is much higher. I normally build wheels using a 1/4 turn of the wrench as a basic unit - but that is the equivalent of a full turn to a crosslaced wheel. You need to make very small adjustments to prevent crazy/erratic results in wheel trueness. Also, get the wheel straight w/o an significant tension - don't expect to be able to take out wobbles as you bring the wheel up to tension.

    Here's a thread on the topic: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/any...im-799284.html
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  70. #70
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    Freespoke and that thread are great resources guys, thanks!

    Heres what I got in freespoke:
    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-spoke-calcing.jpg



    But their help file is missing some definitions, and every calculator seems to use different terminology...

    center-flange distance
    Center of hub to center of flange I assume...?

    flange hole circle diameter
    I assume this is "d" in the diagram below...

    flange spoke hole diameter
    this must be "S".


    Name:  spocalc_hubdims.gif
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    More important! When crosslacing, the leverage of the spokes against the wheel is much higher. I normally build wheels using a 1/4 turn of the wrench as a basic unit - but that is the equivalent of a full turn to a crosslaced wheel. You need to make very small adjustments to prevent crazy/erratic results in wheel trueness.
    So what your saying is the wheel trueness will be much more affected when torquing the nipples in a cross laced build.



    Anyone know of any other spoke length calculators that will take a negative spoke hole side-side spacing for the rim? So I can compare the values I get with my freespoke values

  72. #72
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    Rims-clown shoe
    Hubs-(rear) hope pro 2, 135, 17.5 offset/ (front) surly fat ultra new, 135, no offset
    Spoke lengths would help

  73. #73
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    Rims - Clown Shoe
    Hub -Shimano XT 135mm, M756. Disc. 32-hole
    3 cross with offset for a moonlander.

    Any idea on spoke lengths?

  74. #74
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    Harry D,

    Drive-263mm
    Disk-261mm

  75. #75
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    Harry D,

    Correction in that calc. Those are lengths for a RD to the XT.
    For the XT to a CS it will be 262 both sides.

  76. #76
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    what about a hope 135 onto clown shoes with 28mm (moonie offset)

    anyone

  77. #77
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    jbent,

    Thanks for the info.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbent View Post
    For the XT to a CS it will be 262 both sides.
    Correct. I have the same hub and rim, and 262 mm was a good choice.

  79. #79
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    cozz,
    263 drive
    262 disk
    (you could go 263 both but you might have to file spoke protrusion on the back of the nipple down a bit on disk side)

  80. #80
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    How about spoke lengths for 907 135/190mm hubs and clown shoes.
    Can't find the specs for the hubs anywhere and 907 is not replying my e-mails. No, I can't measure the hubs as I have not received them yet.

  81. #81
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    So I know this is being incredibly lazy but what spoke lengths do I need for a clown shoe rim with offset and a Surly 135mm Ultra New Track Hub.
    If someone could post a site for a good length calculator that would be cool too.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_K View Post
    How about spoke lengths for 907 135/190mm hubs and clown shoes.
    Can't find the specs for the hubs anywhere and 907 is not replying my e-mails. No, I can't measure the hubs as I have not received them yet.
    907front hub, Clownshoe- 262. 907 Rear hub, Clownshoe- 266 Non Dr, 264 Dr
    I like turtles

  83. #83
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    If you can measure the Surly hub, MAYBE it's the same as one of these...

    Shimano XT offset in Clownshoe- Non Dr- 262, Dr- 262

    Hope Pro2 in Clownshoe, offset- non dr- 262, dr- 263
    I like turtles

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    907front hub, Clownshoe- 262. 907 Rear hub, Clownshoe- 266 Non Dr, 264 Dr
    Thanks a lot!

    edit. 14mm nipples and 3x?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_K View Post
    Thanks a lot!

    edit. 14mm nipples and 3x?
    Don't they come with 12mm? Yes, three cross.
    I like turtles

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    I need to learn ERD Robson RM80 80mm single wall, 548mm?

  87. #87
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    Can anyone help me determine the necessary spoke length for a 170mm Hope pro fatsno rear hub to a Stan's arch EX 29er rim. And the corresponding 135mm Hope to arch EX front? I really appreciate any info.

  88. #88
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    170 mm Hope and Arch EX 29er: 296 mm on both sides, when using 32 spokes cross 3.
    135 mm Hope and Arch EX 29er: 284 mm on the left, 286 mm on the right, when using 32 spokes cross 2.

    This applies assuming Stan's has the correct ERD (606 mm) on their website. My experience with their Crests was that their "ERD" was only up to the nipple shoulder, but the spoke should go deeper than that. For the rear wheel this doesn't affect things enough to change spoke lengths, but for the front I would use 286 mm on both sides to reduce the risk of breaking nipples.

    Use brass nipples and you're unlikely to have trouble either way.

    (If you want to have the front wheel cross 3, the calculator suggests 294 mm on both sides if you trust the ERD to be 606 mm. For lack of concrete info, I'd calculate with a 608 mm ERD and use 296 mm on both sides.)

    Calculated with this one: Freespoke
    The database includes both hubs you're using. Because the spoke bed is centered, you can simply input an ERD instead of choosing a rim.

  89. #89
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    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screen-shot-2014-05-03-6.35.19-pm.jpg

    Building up a set of these new "light bicycle 90mm" carbon rims....

    Dimensional drawings show:
    ERD - 534mm
    Spoke hole drilling offset - 19.5mm

    Front Hub - Project 321 Lefty

    My lefty fork has MendonCycles offset clamps 17.5mm further to the left side for clearance.

    Freespoke suggests that I need:

    L- 257 mm
    R- 260 mm

    Can anyone look at this calculation and verify that I have all the offsets in right?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penetrator View Post
    I need to learn ERD Robson RM80 80mm single wall, 548mm?
    Hi, I measured 546mm ERD for this rim; built them up today and spokes turned out the be the right length.

    As they are single wall I've used less tension compared to normal thinner double wall rims, is this a good or bad idea?
    Last edited by HypnoT0AD; 05-08-2014 at 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling

  91. #91
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    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-photo.jpg

    Does this look right to anyone? Can anyone verify that the Clownshoe ERD is actually 543.5 at the spoke bed? What length spokes should i ACTUALLY get?

    This will be my first wheel building experience. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated!

  92. #92
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    What hub are you using?
    I like turtles

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    What hub are you using?
    a 190mm Borealis fh1 rear hub. the numbers are all from the freespoke database verified by manufacturer specs.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kos F View Post
    Hi all,

    I have an interesting potential problem where the hub width is the same as the "Rim Hole Width". My concern is that this would cause the wheel to be weak with side to side forces. I cannot use different hubs or rims, and the rim is going to be dished 15mm to one side. The bike is for downhill riding.
    Does anyone know of any special patterns, where some spokes go from the left side of the hub to the right side of the rim for example? (if so how would I calculate the spoke lengths?)


    Here is what I mean by

    HUB WIDTH
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    RIM HOLE WIDTH
    Click image for larger version. 

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    (this is the actual robsson.de rim I'm using)
    A build like this doesn't really work, since you're not building a triangle, you're building a rectangle. You can tension it and round it, but there's no way to true or dish a rectangular wheel.

  95. #95
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    The lengths I have for a rear Borealis in a Clownshoe is as follows:
    264 non drive 262 drive
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    The lengths I have for a rear Borealis in a Clownshoe is as follows:
    264 non drive 262 drive
    Awesome. Thanks! You built yours offset to the left spoke bed? 3 cross? trying to figure out what i did wrong in freespoke...

  97. #97
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    It is not offset. I was given the spoke lengths by QBP back when the hubs were brand new.
    I keep a log of what works.
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  98. #98
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    Hi guys,
    So I'm building a new front wheel - LB 90mm offset drilled rim onto a lefty hub. Using MCS offset clamps.

    I'm not quite sure how to calculate spoke length with the fork offset, drilling offset and then the fact that rake (and therefore wheel dish) is not fixed...

    Any advice, o' wizards of the wheel?

  99. #99
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    Hi
    Same here..
    Looking for some spoke length help..

    Orgin8 Crawler Rear Rim
    Hope Xc - 32h - 135mm spacing.
    Front is currently two cross, would like to run the rear 2 or 3cross.
    Front spoke length is 255mm two cross, maybe a bit more like 260mm.. Similar front flange size too rear Hope xc i am building.
    --
    The old hub (internal) was non-dished, so thinking i can build the new one the same way, no dish..

    Need help with rear spoke length..?????

    Any help would be GREAT..

    THANKS

  100. #100
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    Spoke length?

    Hope Fatsno 135x15 and 177x12
    Nextie 65mm, ERD515, 0 offset

  101. #101
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    Hi, I was hoping someone more experienced than I am could help me out, I'm having a really difficult time trying to figure out spoke length for building a set of wheels. What I am building:

    Front: 150mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Rear: 197mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Both 32H, 3x.

    I have the rim information to input into the freespoke site. I'm really struggling with the Hope hub information. This is what is on their site:
    http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/u...AND-PCD-v2.pdf

    Freespoke wants "center-flange distance" which I cannot find on Hope's site. They have "spoke PCD" for both left and right side, which I assume is "flange pitch circle diameter". There is a field for "spoke hole diameter" which I cannot find. There is also one field for "hub offset", however Hope lists a hub offset for both right and left side, and they are 1mm different.

    Sun Ringle's site lists a 110kgf max spoke tension for their wheels. I think this is a general suggestion for Sun Ringle rims, might the fatbike single wall rims be different (less)?

    Thanks so much for any help.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    Hi, I was hoping someone more experienced than I am could help me out, I'm having a really difficult time trying to figure out spoke length for building a set of wheels. What I am building:

    Front: 150mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Rear: 197mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Both 32H, 3x.

    I have the rim information to input into the freespoke site. I'm really struggling with the Hope hub information. This is what is on their site:
    http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/u...AND-PCD-v2.pdf

    Freespoke wants "center-flange distance" which I cannot find on Hope's site. They have "spoke PCD" for both left and right side, which I assume is "flange pitch circle diameter". There is a field for "spoke hole diameter" which I cannot find. There is also one field for "hub offset", however Hope lists a hub offset for both right and left side, and they are 1mm different.

    Sun Ringle's site lists a 110kgf max spoke tension for their wheels. I think this is a general suggestion for Sun Ringle rims, might the fatbike single wall rims be different (less)?

    Thanks so much for any help.
    Hope Fatsno spoke hole diameter is 2.6mm

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by aizu1 View Post
    Hope Fatsno spoke hole diameter is 2.6mm
    Thank you!

    So from further research, here are the results I'm getting. If someone has a couple of minutes to double check my work, I would be GRATEFUL.

    Front:
    left - 268
    right - 268

    Rear:
    left - 269
    right - 269


    Thanks...

  104. #104
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    I was averaging for a couple of calculators I used. I've used a few more, and I feel pretty confident with the results from Freespoke:

    Front:
    left - 266
    right - 266

    Rear:
    left- 267
    right - 266

    Perhaps this might help someone else building wheels with these parts. I'll post if there's any issues.
    Last edited by Stormwalker; 10-21-2014 at 03:33 PM.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    I was averaging for a couple of calculators I used. I've used a few more, and I feel pretty confident with the results from Freespoke:

    Front:
    left - 266
    right - 266

    Rear:
    left- 267
    right - 266

    Perhaps this might help someone else building wheels with these parts. I'll post if there's any issues.
    How did this turn out? I am doing exactly this build and need to order some spokes!
    Thanks!

  106. #106
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    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno hub 150mmx15 to surly 100mm clown shoe rim
    rear: hope fatsno hub 170mm QR to 100mm clown shoe rim

    is there a significant difference in spoke length between 3x and 4x patterns?

    thank you very much.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwin_eyemd View Post
    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno hub 150mmx15 to surly 100mm clown shoe rim
    rear: hope fatsno hub 170mm QR to 100mm clown shoe rim

    is there a significant difference in spoke length between 3x and 4x patterns?

    thank you very much.
    x3 : Front L-R 262-262
    Rear L-R 262-261
    4 : Front L-R 273-273
    Rear L-R 273-272

  108. #108
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    thanks Pat2A

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilson View Post
    How did this turn out? I am doing exactly this build and need to order some spokes!
    Thanks!
    Sorry, didn't see this until now. These spoke lengths turned out perfect. You'll be happy with this wheelset! I set up Bud and Lou tubeless, it wasn't any harder than setting up my summer bike tubeless.

  110. #110
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    Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm building a set of wheels for my Moonlander, so Hope Pro 2 Evo Rear Hub (QR) 135 and Hope Pro 2 Evo Fatsno Front 135 (RDS) laced to Clown Shoes. 32 hole, 3x and FreeSpoke suggests 262.1 and 262.8. Others say just order 263 all around. I just wanted to check with someone with experience, 263 all around alright, or 32 262 and 32 263?

  111. #111
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    I'd go with 32x262, 32x263 if I could but I would be equally happy with 263 all round.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  112. #112
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    I've got a hope fatsno 135qr (old style) and I'm wanting to put on a the hope fatsno 150 ta. Is the spoke length going to change ?
    On a Velocity dually 29

  113. #113
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    It'll probably add about 1mm to your current spoke length.
    I like turtles

  114. #114
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    One way to check, (if you are as anal as me), is to draw it all out on grid paper, and measure with a metric scale ruler. Will at least make you feel better about your math, even if it turns out to be wrong.

    Cheers
    Kevin.

    PS. If your math is wrong on the long side, grind the spokes off and re-thread them.

  115. #115
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    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredder78 View Post
    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks
    It depends on your hubs. There are spoke calculators you can use. Posted in this thread and many many others.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredder78 View Post
    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks
    I have specs at home. I'll check back in later.
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  118. #118
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    Hi there, I posted on the Dolomite's thread and was told this would be better place to post my question. I have gotten a set of Quando hubs 135mm front and 190mm rear. I have the same Dolomite 100 mm rims on my huffy excess. I need to figure out the ERD (effective rim diameter) to build my wheels. My huffy came with front disk brake but the rear one is rim brake but the frame is disk brake ready that's why I want to swap the hubs. I also noticed that the spokes on the current hubs are much thicker than the standard 14g spokes on most fat bikes including my Gravity BEM. My Quando hubs flange holes are smaller than the huffy's so I suppose I will need to get 14g spokes. The other problem that I noticed is that the spoke holes on the rims are bigger also due to the stock thicker nipples. I used a 14g spoke and a corresponding nipple from an old mountain bike wheel, the nipple seems to work fine but I'm concerned if the bigger hole on the rim will eventually wear off due to the thinner/smaller nipple. Just by looking on the Dolomite rims and comparing them to the ones on my huffy, I am 100% sure both companies used the same rims but different hubs.

    Have someone ever swapped the hubs on the Dolomite's rims? I have all the Quando hubs measures accounted, but the ERD is the most important in order to calculate accurate spoke lengths.

    I used a measuring tape, I don't have a caliper

    ERD=? My estimate is 536mm but not sure (help me measure this)
    Hub width or OLD= 190 mm
    Left lock-nut to flange = 35 mm
    Right lock-nut to flange = 50 mm
    Left flange diameter = 60 mm
    Right flange diameter = 60 mm
    Number of spokes = 36
    Lacing pattern = 3x
    Diameter of flange spoke holes = 2.6 mm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_010-2-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_004-1-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_008.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_011.jpg  


  119. #119
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    Take two spokes and nipples of a known length. Thread them into nipples so that the end of the spoke is flush with the screw slot in the nipple in opposite holes in the rim.
    rubber band the two spokes together and measure the difference. The two spokes + the difference is your ERD.
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  120. #120
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    The spoke method described above is good.

    Another way is to measure the rim all the way up to the rim sidewall, then measure the drop from the sidewall to the nipple hole. Multiply the "drop" by two and add 2 mm (you want each spoke to poke through one mm).

    Be careful about ERD measurement. It has the biggest impact on spoke length of all of the stuff you measure. Spoke hole PCD at the hub could vary a few mm and you'd still be using the same spokes. ERD is more critical.

    If you're concerned about nipple hole size on the rims, add washers to the nipples. Remember to consider washer thickness when rounding spoke length.

  121. #121
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    Thanks NYrr496 and Saul, I got a measuring caliper from harbor freight and followed your advice to measure the ERD and re-measured my hub and all came out with more precise accurate numbers. I still have a doubt about SBO (spoke bed offset) and Hub Offset. Should I just put zero on both? What do they account for? Is the cross pattern correct for a 36 spoke wheel? Check the pictures and tell me if I am doing anything wrong. The graphic looks right but then again I'm building a fat wheel and the rim holes are not in line like the graphic shows. If everything is correct what size spoke should I buy since it is sold in increments of 1 mm. Should I round it to the lower or higher length. The nipples I used to get the ERD were 12 mm so I guess that's the nipple size should I get? And it should be poly ax nipples right? Sorry for all the noob questions, but I can't believe I'm about to build a set of wheels by myself, I still don't know why I've been doing so many mods on this huffy, I've changed grips, stems, seat post, shifters, derailleur, new crank set on the way, drilled rims, and now the hubs, call me crazy but my GBEM is collecting dust hahaha.

    OLD = 190mm
    Center line= 95mm
    WL(width front center to flange) = 62mm
    WR(width from center to flange)= 47mm
    S (spoke hole diameter)= 2.6mm
    d (flange diameter)= 58mm
    ERD = A+2B (where B= 12mm)
    =520mm + 2(12mm)
    =544mm

    Thanks to Sheldon Brown, Harris Cyclery, and Damon Rinard calculator for rim pic
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-75-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-76-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-77-.jpg  


  122. #122
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    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.

    Thanks so much for your help. Where do you get your spokes and nipples? Any deals?

  124. #124
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    I either buy stuff from Bike Hub Store or I just bite the bullet and buy DT Swiss spokes from the bike shop.
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  125. #125
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    190 mm OLD means a symmetric rear, so hub offset is correct at zero.
    Your picture shows spokes off the centerline of the rim, so you'll need to fix that. Your graphic shows spokes going to the center from both flanges.
    If you measured ERD as advised, 12 mm will be a suitable nipple length.
    I round spokes no more than 1 mm either way. If it's a flush (calculator suggests 261 but only 260 and 262 are available), I round up, but it's not wrong to round down either.
    3x36 is a solid pattern and polyax nipples are just fine. Make sure to lube the threads and use a good spoke key.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    190 mm OLD means a symmetric rear, so hub offset is correct at zero.
    Your picture shows spokes off the centerline of the rim, so you'll need to fix that. Your graphic shows spokes going to the center from both flanges.
    If you measured ERD as advised, 12 mm will be a suitable nipple length.
    I round spokes no more than 1 mm either way. If it's a flush (calculator suggests 261 but only 260 and 262 are available), I round up, but it's not wrong to round down either.
    3x36 is a solid pattern and polyax nipples are just fine. Make sure to lube the threads and use a good spoke key.

    Thanks man, So I measured the distance from the center of the rim to the spoke holes of both sides left and right and came up with 22.5 mm for each side. This is how my graphic looks like now, I think I finally nailed it. I couldn't have done it without your help guys, and I loved that measuring caliper, I've been playing with it since I got it hahaha.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-79-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-81-.jpg  


  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.
    Thanks man, now I finally understood.

  128. #128
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    This is the front wheel, is this correct? The OLD is 135mm, hub offset should be zero as well?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-85-.jpg  


  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis_fx35 View Post
    This is the front wheel, is this correct? The OLD is 135mm, hub offset should be zero as well?
    Correct.
    I like turtles

  130. #130
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    I was hoping someone could check my specs on these, The only thing I'm not sure is if I selected the correct front hub. I'd be using the 142x15 Hope hub, I think that's the same as 135 spacing hub? It looks like I can just do 258mm spokes all around?


  131. #131
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    Yep. Do it.
    I like turtles

  132. #132
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    I am calculating a built using the mulefut and DT hubs and notice in Freespoke the spec for the rim differs from other site I have used. I am simply pricing a full bike build from scratch and want to figure out how much I need to spend on spokes. I have some spokes in stock in the man cave so figuring out what I'd need to buy. I don't have rims to measure.

    I found 551 ERD with 19mm offset on one site and Freespoke says 553/20? Can anyone comment on which is the more accurate? it only results in a 1mm difference all around, but still would like to know.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclotoine View Post
    I am calculating a built using the mulefut and DT hubs and notice in Freespoke the spec for the rim differs from other site I have used. I am simply pricing a full bike build from scratch and want to figure out how much I need to spend on spokes. I have some spokes in stock in the man cave so figuring out what I'd need to buy. I don't have rims to measure.

    I found 551 ERD with 19mm offset on one site and Freespoke says 553/20? Can anyone comment on which is the more accurate? it only results in a 1mm difference all around, but still would like to know.
    I would recommend using Freespoke. Make sure you get the ERD as accurate as possible. This is the most important measure and will impact the spoke length drastically. Whatever spoke length you get I would round it down instead of round it up. When I laced my wheels 3 weeks ago my spokes were too long and I ended up filing them because they were protruding.
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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis_fx35 View Post
    I would recommend using Freespoke. Make sure you get the ERD as accurate as possible. This is the most important measure and will impact the spoke length drastically. Whatever spoke length you get I would round it down instead of round it up. When I laced my wheels 3 weeks ago my spokes were too long and I ended up filing them because they were protruding.
    Thanks, I should have mentioned that 551/19 is what the manufacturer states. I know the extra 2mm could be allowance for the head of the nipple. it depends where the manufacturer measured too. I.e. is their ERD at the base of the nipple head or the top?

    As you mention it's critical with single wall rims to get this right on the money. I'll go with the manufacturers measurements which will err on the side of 1mm shorter. Thanks for the reality check.

  135. #135
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    I think Sun Ringle says it's 551. Can you get the rims and measure the ERD yourself?
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  136. #136
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    Hi all! I'm using Mulefut rims and 9zero7 135/170 hubs, and I have a problem I calculated the erd 553 and I have the hub measurements, but I don't get the wheel offset... I've built few wheelsets before, but these are my first fats and would ofcourse like to get it right the first time!
    So, if someone could help me with the spoke length calculation I would be very grateful!!

  137. #137
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    For a 135/170 build, there isn't wheel offset, but you do need to calculate the spoke bed offset. Use 19mm for the Mulefuts. Look at post #130 above that illustrate the spoke bed offset.
    Jason
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  138. #138
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    hi guys, can some one say yeah or neigh
    im lacing DT Swiss BR710 onto hope fatsno front rds 135mm/rear 170mm both qr

    iv tried various spoke calculators front rds 135mm hub came out non gear side 267 mm / gear side 268mm,
    rear 170mm, non gear side 268 / gear side 269
    has anyone else done this combo?

  139. #139
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    Thanks JAGI410! Spokes have been ordered!!

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    I'm trying to order some spokes for my first wheel build. Going to be sun ringle mulefuts 80 with novatec d202sb rear hub and d201sb. Wondering if someone can double check my calculations. It's saying 267.4, wich I'm assuming I'll round up to 268

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utahbikemike View Post
    I'm trying to order some spokes for my first wheel build. Going to be sun ringle mulefuts 80 with novatec d202sb rear hub and d201sb. Wondering if someone can double check my calculations. It's saying 267.4, wich I'm assuming I'll round up to 268
    Im doing the same build. I have a ton of old 26" spokes laying around, hoping some are close.
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  142. #142
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    268 ended up working on all of the spoke positions

  143. #143
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    After playing around with this for a while, I think the following simple formula will get you pretty close to the right length for fat bikes with 3-cross spoke patterns and 12mm nipples:

    Spoke Length = ((Rim ERD-544)/2) +263
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-dyno-hub.jpg  

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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    After playing around with this for a while, I think the following simple formula will get you pretty close to the right length for fat bikes with 3-cross spoke patterns and 12mm nipples:

    Spoke Length = ((Rim ERD-544)/2) +263
    I have seen up to 4mm difference depending on flange diameter, flange spacing and spoke hole offset in the rim.
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I have seen up to 4mm difference depending on flange diameter, flange spacing and spoke hole offset in the rim.
    True. But I think my formula gets you in the middle of that 4mm range most of the time. If nothing else, it should be a good double check to make sure that you didn't make an input error using one of the more complicated methods. By the way, here is an even easier formula that gets the same answers:

    Spoke Length = (ERD/2) - 9

    (The formula builds off of the common sense observation that the spokes should be about half of the diameter of the rim. It then subtracts 9mm to roughly account for all other factors, but primarily for the space that the hub takes up. Assuming you are using a 3 cross pattern with 12mm spoke nipples it seems to work with most of the examples in this thread.)
    Last edited by Lars_D; 09-23-2016 at 08:58 AM.
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  146. #146
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    Here is a Youtube video I did on calculating spoke lengths for fat bike wheels...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfrhke8PB8
    --Peace

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    Fatbike wheel spoke lenght

    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno pro4 hub 150mmx15 Fds to 90mm specialized Stout xc90 rim

    rear: hope fatsno pro4 hub 190mm QR to 90mm specialized xc90 rim

    3x pattern

    thank you very much.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by isabaja View Post
    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno pro4 hub 150mmx15 Fds to 90mm specialized Stout xc90 rim

    rear: hope fatsno pro4 hub 190mm QR to 90mm specialized xc90 rim

    3x pattern

    thank you very much.
    I looked for the ERD of those rims. Didn't find it. Do you have them? Can you measure them?
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    I can not measure them,unfortunately.
    But something written on rims:
    26"/ETRTO 559x86c/6061 Disc break only

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by isabaja View Post
    I can not measure them,unfortunately.
    But something written on rims:
    26"/ETRTO 559x86c/6061 Disc break only
    Yeah, that's the tire bead seat diameter. Not helpful for figuring spoke length. Let me look around some more.
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  151. #151
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    Measuring ERD is really easy, 2 old spokes, some tape and a ruler. Takes like 5 minutes.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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    Revivng an old thread here, but it seems to be the closest to the topic of my question...

    All this discussion still leaves me wondering about one thing... many fat bike rims don't have the holes in the center of the rim. All the spoke calculators I can find seem to presume the spoke holes are centered on the rim. The offset option found on some calculators appears to relate to the hub being off-center laterally in the rim (such as with the Pugsley offset). So... that doesn't appear to help.

    My question that still remains for spoke length calculation is how do you accommodate for the spacing between the two rows of holes on a fat bike rim?

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbop View Post

    My question that still remains for spoke length calculation is how do you accommodate for the spacing between the two rows of holes on a fat bike rim?
    You use the offset. See post #126 above. Click on the image to make it larger. In that case both spoke holes were 22.5mm from the center line of the rim, or 45mm apart. In that case, applying an equal offset to left and right results in a symmetrical build. If the wheel were being built for a Pugsley you would subtract 17.5mm from the drive side and add 17.5mm to the NDS. Instead of 22.5/22.5 you would have 5/40 as your offsets.

  154. #154
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    Reviving an old thread again here, been trying to calculate spoke length for several days and going around in circles!

    About to build a wheelset with My Other Brother Darryl symmetrical Rims and DT Swiss 350 centerlock Hubs (15x150 Front, 12x177 rear) for a Surly Wednesday (so no frame offset).

    First question - I have found 3 different values for the ERD - 553.5 (Freespoke database) 553 (Surly spec), 552 (QBP measured). Anyone know what the true ERD is, yes I know I should measure it myself but the rims are still in the post and not expected to arrive for a couple of weeks.

    Second question - Do the published ERDs take into account that the spoke holes are offset from the centre by 15mm (and therefore I do not need account for the offset in online calculators), or are published ERDs from the centre of the rim - even though the rim does not have centred spoke holes? At first I thought I need to enter the 15mm offset into the calculations, but having thought about it more now I am not sure, since wouldn't published ERDs be measured from the spoke holes that actually exist rather than fictitious centred holes that aren't even there?

    Third question - bearing in mind the rim is single wall and I will be using brass nipples, should I use spokes slightly short rather slightly long, and how long or short can I get away with, 1mm, 2mm? Opinions on the web seem to differ on this... too long and I could run out of thread and/or pierce a tube (though I will likely go tubeless), too short and the structure is weakened leading to possibility of snapped spokes/nipples, as there would be a gap between the top of the spoke and the rim inside the nipple. I am thinking to go for slightly shorter spokes rather than to long since using brass nipples rather than aluminium helps increases the strength?

    Below I have made a couple of tables using the 3 different ERDs I have come across. On the Freespoke one I entered the 15mm offset into the calculator, On the DT one I did not (note if I enter the 15mm offset into the DT calculator the spoke lengths come out identical to the Freespoke one). I tried a couple of other calculators (QBP and Prowheelbuilder) and they come out with very similar measurements to the DT Swiss table below).

    Using Freespoke Calculator (3 cross spoke pattern):

    ERD Front Rear Left Rear Right
    553.5. 269.7mm. 269.8mm 268.5mm
    553 269.5mm. 269.6mm 268.2mm
    552 269mm 269.1mm 267.7mm

    Using DT Spoke Calculator (3 cross spoke pattern):

    ERD Front Rear Left Rear Right
    553.5 271.9mm 272.2mm 270.1mm
    553 271.7mm 271.9mm 269.9mm
    552 271.2mm 271.4mm 269.4mm

    If I assume that the Freespoke calculations (with 15mm offset included in the calculator) are correct then I think 269mm for front and rear left, and 268mm for rear right will be fine regardless of which ERD is correct?

    If I should not be adding the spoke hole offset from centre (because it is already taken into account in the published ERDs?), or the other calculators are more accurate then my suggested spoke lengths will be way to short!

    Any advice from wheel building experts out there will be extremely welcomed!

  155. #155
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    Somehow I just ran the DT Swiss Big Rides and Other Brother Darryls through Freespoke and came up with 267 front and 268 both sides rear. I did round up.

    Did you remember to put 32 spokes and 3X in the last column?
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  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Somehow I just ran the DT Swiss Big Rides and Other Brother Darryls through Freespoke and came up with 267 front and 268 both sides rear. I did round up.

    Did you remember to put 32 spokes and 3X in the last column?
    Yes I did. I just checked again and think I may know why you came up with different figures... For the Hubs there are two versions - centerlock and disc 6 bolt. The flange diameters are markedly different on the two versions.

    For the front I come up with 267.7mm using the disc 6 bolt version, but I have the centerlock version which comes out at 269.7mm - a 2mm difference. The Freespoke database has both versions listed.

    For the rear hub they only have the disc 6 bolt version listed, though I obtained the hub measurements for the centerlock version from the DT Swiss website and put the measurements in manually:

    Left flange Diameter - 46mm
    Right Flange Diameter - 46mm
    Left Flange Offset - 50.4mm
    Right Flange Offset - 37.8mm
    Mid Flange Offset - 6.3mm to the left.

    Using these figures I get 269.8mm left and 268.5mm right.

    Using the disc 6 bolt version which is already listed on Freespoke, I get 268.1mm and 267.5mm. Again I suspect because of the considerable differences in flange measurements between the two hub versions.

  157. #157
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    Spoke hole offset is needed and already added into Freespoke, which is the easiest calc to work with IMO

    Can you get your chosen spokes in 1mm increments? My usual choice you can't so I'd be choosing 270mm x 48 and 268mm x 16 and you'll not be far out. Personally, I'd rather be 1mm short than 2mm long as you'll still get good thread engagement, thats just me though.

  158. #158
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    Yeah... I think I used the six bolt. Your numbers are probably fine then.

    Childhood Dreams on Ebay cuts spokes in 1mm increments.
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    Spoke hole offset is needed and already added into Freespoke, which is the easiest calc to work with IMO

    Can you get your chosen spokes in 1mm increments? My usual choice you can't so I'd be choosing 270mm x 48 and 268mm x 16 and you'll not be far out. Personally, I'd rather be 1mm short than 2mm long as you'll still get good thread engagement, thats just me though.
    I have a die that I use while trimming a mm off spokes to get the length right. Running with short spokes can lead to broken nipples.
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  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    I have a die that I use while trimming a mm off spokes to get the length right. Running with short spokes can lead to broken nipples.
    I have a local shop where I did my wheel building course with a Phil Wood spoke cutter, its a thing of beauty. I tend to use Sapim D lights which I doubt can be cut though.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    I have a local shop where I did my wheel building course with a Phil Wood spoke cutter, its a thing of beauty. I tend to use Sapim D lights which I doubt can be cut though.
    A friend has one that is 40 years old! That tool commands the price of a quality bike. :/ The bastard copped it from a shop that closed due to owner retirement and bought it for a song. I'm jealous, I admit it, freely!! The tool is currently $4500 US, new. My God!!
    It does seem to be one of the best machines available for the deed.

    This is per Phil Wood website:

    Our machine is capable of cutting carbon steel, stainless steel, titanium, anodized, and powder coated spokes. Butted and aero spokes can be cut and threaded on the full diameter portion of the spoke. Please be sure to thoroughly clean your machine and dies after cutting and threading powder coated spokes.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgginslc View Post
    It seems that info on spoke lengths for wheel building for fat bikes is a little difficult to determine (at least for me), especially for offset wheels for Pugsley and the like. So, I thought it might be nice to have a thread with info on what combinations people have used to successfully build their wheels.
    ...
    I'm not much of a wheel builder. There's a good shop nearby that has someone who is brilliant at it, and has all the right equipment, so I've just engaged his services to build the past two sets of fat bike wheels I've had built. In both cases, this is the parts list used:

    Rims: BTLOS carbon, double-wall, symmetrical, 26 inch x 90mm (external)
    Hubs: Onyx Racing FAT ISO HG-197/12mm thru-bolt rear, ISO-150/15mm thru-bolt front
    Spokes: DT Swiss Competition Spoke 2.0/1.8/2.0mm 270mm, J-bend
    Nipple: SAPIM (14g)14mm brass

    The hubs have the standard 6-bolt brake rotor mounts and are 32 spokes each. Eric built them, I fitted TRP brake rotors (I run TRP Slate4 hydraulic disc brakes) and assembled them on my Salsa Beargrease custom build with Duro Fleetwood 26x4.00 tires and Surly tubes. The completed bicycle:


    (Open image in a new window to see the full resolution picture.)

    It's a joy.

    G

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    Spoke hole offset is needed and already added into Freespoke, which is the easiest calc to work with IMO

    Can you get your chosen spokes in 1mm increments? My usual choice you can't so I'd be choosing 270mm x 48 and 268mm x 16 and you'll not be far out. Personally, I'd rather be 1mm short than 2mm long as you'll still get good thread engagement, thats just me though.
    Gonna use DT Swiss Competition spokes which I can get in 1mm increments if I stick to silver, was thinking of using white spokes but I can only get them in even numbers - so I'll probably stick to silver and go for 48x269 and 16x268 to be safe.

    I am in Saudi Arabia where there are very few bike shops, non of which I would trust to build a wheel. I've built up one wheel set in the past using Roger Mussons book and a homemade truing stand to his design, but that was a normal wheel set so easier to work out the spoke lengths.

    Being a novice I am obviously slow at wheel building but find it relaxing - probably not so relaxing if I get near the end and find the spokes are the wrong length though I'll report back once I eventually get all the parts together and the wheels built up.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agster View Post
    ...I've built up one wheel set in the past using Roger Mussons book and a homemade truing stand to his design...
    I find this video very simple to follow to remind myself of the keyspoke locations if I haven't built a wheel for a while.

    https://youtu.be/p2jTrJYJGd8

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    I find this video very simple to follow to remind myself of the keyspoke locations if I haven't built a wheel for a while.

    https://youtu.be/p2jTrJYJGd8
    Ali has a good approach to wheel building. He works at Tarty Bikes in the U. K., a trials centric shop. A hella talented individual!
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  166. #166
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    Good video. Surprised at his preference for using aluminium nipples over brass ones though, every other tutorial normally recommends the opposite.

    His spoke stressing technique is definitely a new one for me and I'm going to try that next time. On the first wheelset I built up one of the wheels ended up with loose spokes after the first ride, which at the time I thought was because I hadn't tensioned them enough. After watching this I can now see the tension was probably fine but I hadn't pre-stressed them enough.

  167. #167
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    With the type of riding that Ali and Danny Mac do, the aluminum nipples would have been out if they didn't serve well. Proper tensioning after the stress and formation of the spokes is mandatory.
    Frankly, I have seen plenty of failed brass nipples over the years. Like Ali states, failed nipples comes more from unusual sources like a shovel handle through the spokes or a bowling ball dropped on a wheel laying on the floor.
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  168. #168
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    Haha. The other day, Racefit brought me a wheel to see if I could straighten it out. It was a mess so I asked him what happened to it. He replied my dad might have backed into the bike when it was in storage.
    Doesn't look good for this rim.
    I like turtles

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