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  1. #101
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    Hi, I was hoping someone more experienced than I am could help me out, I'm having a really difficult time trying to figure out spoke length for building a set of wheels. What I am building:

    Front: 150mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Rear: 197mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Both 32H, 3x.

    I have the rim information to input into the freespoke site. I'm really struggling with the Hope hub information. This is what is on their site:
    http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/u...AND-PCD-v2.pdf

    Freespoke wants "center-flange distance" which I cannot find on Hope's site. They have "spoke PCD" for both left and right side, which I assume is "flange pitch circle diameter". There is a field for "spoke hole diameter" which I cannot find. There is also one field for "hub offset", however Hope lists a hub offset for both right and left side, and they are 1mm different.

    Sun Ringle's site lists a 110kgf max spoke tension for their wheels. I think this is a general suggestion for Sun Ringle rims, might the fatbike single wall rims be different (less)?

    Thanks so much for any help.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    Hi, I was hoping someone more experienced than I am could help me out, I'm having a really difficult time trying to figure out spoke length for building a set of wheels. What I am building:

    Front: 150mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Rear: 197mm Hope Fatsno to Mulefut 80SL
    Both 32H, 3x.

    I have the rim information to input into the freespoke site. I'm really struggling with the Hope hub information. This is what is on their site:
    http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/u...AND-PCD-v2.pdf

    Freespoke wants "center-flange distance" which I cannot find on Hope's site. They have "spoke PCD" for both left and right side, which I assume is "flange pitch circle diameter". There is a field for "spoke hole diameter" which I cannot find. There is also one field for "hub offset", however Hope lists a hub offset for both right and left side, and they are 1mm different.

    Sun Ringle's site lists a 110kgf max spoke tension for their wheels. I think this is a general suggestion for Sun Ringle rims, might the fatbike single wall rims be different (less)?

    Thanks so much for any help.
    Hope Fatsno spoke hole diameter is 2.6mm

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by aizu1 View Post
    Hope Fatsno spoke hole diameter is 2.6mm
    Thank you!

    So from further research, here are the results I'm getting. If someone has a couple of minutes to double check my work, I would be GRATEFUL.

    Front:
    left - 268
    right - 268

    Rear:
    left - 269
    right - 269


    Thanks...

  4. #104
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    I was averaging for a couple of calculators I used. I've used a few more, and I feel pretty confident with the results from Freespoke:

    Front:
    left - 266
    right - 266

    Rear:
    left- 267
    right - 266

    Perhaps this might help someone else building wheels with these parts. I'll post if there's any issues.
    Last edited by Stormwalker; 10-21-2014 at 03:33 PM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    I was averaging for a couple of calculators I used. I've used a few more, and I feel pretty confident with the results from Freespoke:

    Front:
    left - 266
    right - 266

    Rear:
    left- 267
    right - 266

    Perhaps this might help someone else building wheels with these parts. I'll post if there's any issues.
    How did this turn out? I am doing exactly this build and need to order some spokes!
    Thanks!

  6. #106
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    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno hub 150mmx15 to surly 100mm clown shoe rim
    rear: hope fatsno hub 170mm QR to 100mm clown shoe rim

    is there a significant difference in spoke length between 3x and 4x patterns?

    thank you very much.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwin_eyemd View Post
    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno hub 150mmx15 to surly 100mm clown shoe rim
    rear: hope fatsno hub 170mm QR to 100mm clown shoe rim

    is there a significant difference in spoke length between 3x and 4x patterns?

    thank you very much.
    x3 : Front L-R 262-262
    Rear L-R 262-261
    4 : Front L-R 273-273
    Rear L-R 273-272

  8. #108
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    thanks Pat2A

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilson View Post
    How did this turn out? I am doing exactly this build and need to order some spokes!
    Thanks!
    Sorry, didn't see this until now. These spoke lengths turned out perfect. You'll be happy with this wheelset! I set up Bud and Lou tubeless, it wasn't any harder than setting up my summer bike tubeless.

  10. #110
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    Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm building a set of wheels for my Moonlander, so Hope Pro 2 Evo Rear Hub (QR) 135 and Hope Pro 2 Evo Fatsno Front 135 (RDS) laced to Clown Shoes. 32 hole, 3x and FreeSpoke suggests 262.1 and 262.8. Others say just order 263 all around. I just wanted to check with someone with experience, 263 all around alright, or 32 262 and 32 263?

  11. #111
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    I'd go with 32x262, 32x263 if I could but I would be equally happy with 263 all round.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  12. #112
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    I've got a hope fatsno 135qr (old style) and I'm wanting to put on a the hope fatsno 150 ta. Is the spoke length going to change ?
    On a Velocity dually 29

  13. #113
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    It'll probably add about 1mm to your current spoke length.
    I like turtles

  14. #114
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    One way to check, (if you are as anal as me), is to draw it all out on grid paper, and measure with a metric scale ruler. Will at least make you feel better about your math, even if it turns out to be wrong.

    Cheers
    Kevin.

    PS. If your math is wrong on the long side, grind the spokes off and re-thread them.

  15. #115
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    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredder78 View Post
    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks
    It depends on your hubs. There are spoke calculators you can use. Posted in this thread and many many others.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredder78 View Post
    Hi everyone,I'm going to build wheelset with Marge lite and Hope Fatsno 150 front /190 rear, does anyone have a spoke lengths handy,I appreciate your help. Thanks
    I have specs at home. I'll check back in later.
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  18. #118
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    Hi there, I posted on the Dolomite's thread and was told this would be better place to post my question. I have gotten a set of Quando hubs 135mm front and 190mm rear. I have the same Dolomite 100 mm rims on my huffy excess. I need to figure out the ERD (effective rim diameter) to build my wheels. My huffy came with front disk brake but the rear one is rim brake but the frame is disk brake ready that's why I want to swap the hubs. I also noticed that the spokes on the current hubs are much thicker than the standard 14g spokes on most fat bikes including my Gravity BEM. My Quando hubs flange holes are smaller than the huffy's so I suppose I will need to get 14g spokes. The other problem that I noticed is that the spoke holes on the rims are bigger also due to the stock thicker nipples. I used a 14g spoke and a corresponding nipple from an old mountain bike wheel, the nipple seems to work fine but I'm concerned if the bigger hole on the rim will eventually wear off due to the thinner/smaller nipple. Just by looking on the Dolomite rims and comparing them to the ones on my huffy, I am 100% sure both companies used the same rims but different hubs.

    Have someone ever swapped the hubs on the Dolomite's rims? I have all the Quando hubs measures accounted, but the ERD is the most important in order to calculate accurate spoke lengths.

    I used a measuring tape, I don't have a caliper

    ERD=? My estimate is 536mm but not sure (help me measure this)
    Hub width or OLD= 190 mm
    Left lock-nut to flange = 35 mm
    Right lock-nut to flange = 50 mm
    Left flange diameter = 60 mm
    Right flange diameter = 60 mm
    Number of spokes = 36
    Lacing pattern = 3x
    Diameter of flange spoke holes = 2.6 mm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_010-2-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_004-1-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_008.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-wp_20151007_011.jpg  


  19. #119
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    Take two spokes and nipples of a known length. Thread them into nipples so that the end of the spoke is flush with the screw slot in the nipple in opposite holes in the rim.
    rubber band the two spokes together and measure the difference. The two spokes + the difference is your ERD.
    I like turtles

  20. #120
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    The spoke method described above is good.

    Another way is to measure the rim all the way up to the rim sidewall, then measure the drop from the sidewall to the nipple hole. Multiply the "drop" by two and add 2 mm (you want each spoke to poke through one mm).

    Be careful about ERD measurement. It has the biggest impact on spoke length of all of the stuff you measure. Spoke hole PCD at the hub could vary a few mm and you'd still be using the same spokes. ERD is more critical.

    If you're concerned about nipple hole size on the rims, add washers to the nipples. Remember to consider washer thickness when rounding spoke length.

  21. #121
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    Thanks NYrr496 and Saul, I got a measuring caliper from harbor freight and followed your advice to measure the ERD and re-measured my hub and all came out with more precise accurate numbers. I still have a doubt about SBO (spoke bed offset) and Hub Offset. Should I just put zero on both? What do they account for? Is the cross pattern correct for a 36 spoke wheel? Check the pictures and tell me if I am doing anything wrong. The graphic looks right but then again I'm building a fat wheel and the rim holes are not in line like the graphic shows. If everything is correct what size spoke should I buy since it is sold in increments of 1 mm. Should I round it to the lower or higher length. The nipples I used to get the ERD were 12 mm so I guess that's the nipple size should I get? And it should be poly ax nipples right? Sorry for all the noob questions, but I can't believe I'm about to build a set of wheels by myself, I still don't know why I've been doing so many mods on this huffy, I've changed grips, stems, seat post, shifters, derailleur, new crank set on the way, drilled rims, and now the hubs, call me crazy but my GBEM is collecting dust hahaha.

    OLD = 190mm
    Center line= 95mm
    WL(width front center to flange) = 62mm
    WR(width from center to flange)= 47mm
    S (spoke hole diameter)= 2.6mm
    d (flange diameter)= 58mm
    ERD = A+2B (where B= 12mm)
    =520mm + 2(12mm)
    =544mm

    Thanks to Sheldon Brown, Harris Cyclery, and Damon Rinard calculator for rim pic
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-75-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-76-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-77-.jpg  


  22. #122
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    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.
    I like turtles

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.

    Thanks so much for your help. Where do you get your spokes and nipples? Any deals?

  24. #124
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    I either buy stuff from Bike Hub Store or I just bite the bullet and buy DT Swiss spokes from the bike shop.
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  25. #125
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    190 mm OLD means a symmetric rear, so hub offset is correct at zero.
    Your picture shows spokes off the centerline of the rim, so you'll need to fix that. Your graphic shows spokes going to the center from both flanges.
    If you measured ERD as advised, 12 mm will be a suitable nipple length.
    I round spokes no more than 1 mm either way. If it's a flush (calculator suggests 261 but only 260 and 262 are available), I round up, but it's not wrong to round down either.
    3x36 is a solid pattern and polyax nipples are just fine. Make sure to lube the threads and use a good spoke key.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    190 mm OLD means a symmetric rear, so hub offset is correct at zero.
    Your picture shows spokes off the centerline of the rim, so you'll need to fix that. Your graphic shows spokes going to the center from both flanges.
    If you measured ERD as advised, 12 mm will be a suitable nipple length.
    I round spokes no more than 1 mm either way. If it's a flush (calculator suggests 261 but only 260 and 262 are available), I round up, but it's not wrong to round down either.
    3x36 is a solid pattern and polyax nipples are just fine. Make sure to lube the threads and use a good spoke key.

    Thanks man, So I measured the distance from the center of the rim to the spoke holes of both sides left and right and came up with 22.5 mm for each side. This is how my graphic looks like now, I think I finally nailed it. I couldn't have done it without your help guys, and I loved that measuring caliper, I've been playing with it since I got it hahaha.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-79-.jpg  

    Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-81-.jpg  


  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Offset is the distance the spoke holes are away from the center of the rim. See the way your picture puts the spokes in the center? They'll be too long.
    Measure the distance from the center to a spoke hole and that's your offset.
    Wait til you try and build a wheel for a Pugs and have to do negative offset.
    Thanks man, now I finally understood.

  28. #128
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    This is the front wheel, is this correct? The OLD is 135mm, hub offset should be zero as well?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-screenshot-85-.jpg  


  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis_fx35 View Post
    This is the front wheel, is this correct? The OLD is 135mm, hub offset should be zero as well?
    Correct.
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  30. #130
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    I was hoping someone could check my specs on these, The only thing I'm not sure is if I selected the correct front hub. I'd be using the 142x15 Hope hub, I think that's the same as 135 spacing hub? It looks like I can just do 258mm spokes all around?


  31. #131
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    Yep. Do it.
    I like turtles

  32. #132
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    I am calculating a built using the mulefut and DT hubs and notice in Freespoke the spec for the rim differs from other site I have used. I am simply pricing a full bike build from scratch and want to figure out how much I need to spend on spokes. I have some spokes in stock in the man cave so figuring out what I'd need to buy. I don't have rims to measure.

    I found 551 ERD with 19mm offset on one site and Freespoke says 553/20? Can anyone comment on which is the more accurate? it only results in a 1mm difference all around, but still would like to know.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclotoine View Post
    I am calculating a built using the mulefut and DT hubs and notice in Freespoke the spec for the rim differs from other site I have used. I am simply pricing a full bike build from scratch and want to figure out how much I need to spend on spokes. I have some spokes in stock in the man cave so figuring out what I'd need to buy. I don't have rims to measure.

    I found 551 ERD with 19mm offset on one site and Freespoke says 553/20? Can anyone comment on which is the more accurate? it only results in a 1mm difference all around, but still would like to know.
    I would recommend using Freespoke. Make sure you get the ERD as accurate as possible. This is the most important measure and will impact the spoke length drastically. Whatever spoke length you get I would round it down instead of round it up. When I laced my wheels 3 weeks ago my spokes were too long and I ended up filing them because they were protruding.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis_fx35 View Post
    I would recommend using Freespoke. Make sure you get the ERD as accurate as possible. This is the most important measure and will impact the spoke length drastically. Whatever spoke length you get I would round it down instead of round it up. When I laced my wheels 3 weeks ago my spokes were too long and I ended up filing them because they were protruding.
    Thanks, I should have mentioned that 551/19 is what the manufacturer states. I know the extra 2mm could be allowance for the head of the nipple. it depends where the manufacturer measured too. I.e. is their ERD at the base of the nipple head or the top?

    As you mention it's critical with single wall rims to get this right on the money. I'll go with the manufacturers measurements which will err on the side of 1mm shorter. Thanks for the reality check.

  35. #135
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    I think Sun Ringle says it's 551. Can you get the rims and measure the ERD yourself?
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  36. #136
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    Hi all! I'm using Mulefut rims and 9zero7 135/170 hubs, and I have a problem I calculated the erd 553 and I have the hub measurements, but I don't get the wheel offset... I've built few wheelsets before, but these are my first fats and would ofcourse like to get it right the first time!
    So, if someone could help me with the spoke length calculation I would be very grateful!!

  37. #137
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    For a 135/170 build, there isn't wheel offset, but you do need to calculate the spoke bed offset. Use 19mm for the Mulefuts. Look at post #130 above that illustrate the spoke bed offset.
    Jason
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  38. #138
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    hi guys, can some one say yeah or neigh
    im lacing DT Swiss BR710 onto hope fatsno front rds 135mm/rear 170mm both qr

    iv tried various spoke calculators front rds 135mm hub came out non gear side 267 mm / gear side 268mm,
    rear 170mm, non gear side 268 / gear side 269
    has anyone else done this combo?

  39. #139
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    Thanks JAGI410! Spokes have been ordered!!

  40. #140
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    I'm trying to order some spokes for my first wheel build. Going to be sun ringle mulefuts 80 with novatec d202sb rear hub and d201sb. Wondering if someone can double check my calculations. It's saying 267.4, wich I'm assuming I'll round up to 268

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utahbikemike View Post
    I'm trying to order some spokes for my first wheel build. Going to be sun ringle mulefuts 80 with novatec d202sb rear hub and d201sb. Wondering if someone can double check my calculations. It's saying 267.4, wich I'm assuming I'll round up to 268
    Im doing the same build. I have a ton of old 26" spokes laying around, hoping some are close.
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  42. #142
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    268 ended up working on all of the spoke positions

  43. #143
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    After playing around with this for a while, I think the following simple formula will get you pretty close to the right length for fat bikes with 3-cross spoke patterns and 12mm nipples:

    Spoke Length = ((Rim ERD-544)/2) +263
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fat Bike Wheel Spoke Length-dyno-hub.jpg  

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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    After playing around with this for a while, I think the following simple formula will get you pretty close to the right length for fat bikes with 3-cross spoke patterns and 12mm nipples:

    Spoke Length = ((Rim ERD-544)/2) +263
    I have seen up to 4mm difference depending on flange diameter, flange spacing and spoke hole offset in the rim.
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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I have seen up to 4mm difference depending on flange diameter, flange spacing and spoke hole offset in the rim.
    True. But I think my formula gets you in the middle of that 4mm range most of the time. If nothing else, it should be a good double check to make sure that you didn't make an input error using one of the more complicated methods. By the way, here is an even easier formula that gets the same answers:

    Spoke Length = (ERD/2) - 9

    (The formula builds off of the common sense observation that the spokes should be about half of the diameter of the rim. It then subtracts 9mm to roughly account for all other factors, but primarily for the space that the hub takes up. Assuming you are using a 3 cross pattern with 12mm spoke nipples it seems to work with most of the examples in this thread.)
    Last edited by Lars_D; 09-23-2016 at 08:58 AM.
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  46. #146
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    Here is a Youtube video I did on calculating spoke lengths for fat bike wheels...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfrhke8PB8
    --Peace

  47. #147
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    Fatbike wheel spoke lenght

    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno pro4 hub 150mmx15 Fds to 90mm specialized Stout xc90 rim

    rear: hope fatsno pro4 hub 190mm QR to 90mm specialized xc90 rim

    3x pattern

    thank you very much.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by isabaja View Post
    hi. can someone help me about the length of spokes needed for the following wheel build? both wheels will be non-offset.

    front: hope fatsno pro4 hub 150mmx15 Fds to 90mm specialized Stout xc90 rim

    rear: hope fatsno pro4 hub 190mm QR to 90mm specialized xc90 rim

    3x pattern

    thank you very much.
    I looked for the ERD of those rims. Didn't find it. Do you have them? Can you measure them?
    I like turtles

  49. #149
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    I can not measure them,unfortunately.
    But something written on rims:
    26"/ETRTO 559x86c/6061 Disc break only

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by isabaja View Post
    I can not measure them,unfortunately.
    But something written on rims:
    26"/ETRTO 559x86c/6061 Disc break only
    Yeah, that's the tire bead seat diameter. Not helpful for figuring spoke length. Let me look around some more.
    I like turtles

  51. #151
    RAKC
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    Measuring ERD is really easy, 2 old spokes, some tape and a ruler. Takes like 5 minutes.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

  52. #152
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    Revivng an old thread here, but it seems to be the closest to the topic of my question...

    All this discussion still leaves me wondering about one thing... many fat bike rims don't have the holes in the center of the rim. All the spoke calculators I can find seem to presume the spoke holes are centered on the rim. The offset option found on some calculators appears to relate to the hub being off-center laterally in the rim (such as with the Pugsley offset). So... that doesn't appear to help.

    My question that still remains for spoke length calculation is how do you accommodate for the spacing between the two rows of holes on a fat bike rim?

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbop View Post

    My question that still remains for spoke length calculation is how do you accommodate for the spacing between the two rows of holes on a fat bike rim?
    You use the offset. See post #126 above. Click on the image to make it larger. In that case both spoke holes were 22.5mm from the center line of the rim, or 45mm apart. In that case, applying an equal offset to left and right results in a symmetrical build. If the wheel were being built for a Pugsley you would subtract 17.5mm from the drive side and add 17.5mm to the NDS. Instead of 22.5/22.5 you would have 5/40 as your offsets.

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