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  1. #1
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    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)

    Riding bikes which are basically 30% tire, the tires have quite an impact on the riding experience. I've gone through a surprising number of tires the last couple of years trying to find The Ideal Tires, and thought I'd post a little comparison.

    45NRTH
    Good quality tires, which are easy to set up tubeless. Medium weight, good durability.

    45NRTH Vanhelga
    Size: 4"
    Tubeless ready: Yes
    Weight: Ca 1250g
    Used tubeless on Marge Lite (65mm) rims spring and summer.

    Score: 9/10

    Vanhelga quickly became my favourite 4" spring and summer tire! Excellent tread pattern and tire profile, good quality, sturdy without being overly heavy. Rolling resistance is also excellent. I've ridden with plenty of people on standard 29" and 27.5" skinny bikes, and I rolled right along with them, even on gravel.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_20150621_133258-3.jpg

    I might try something lighter like Jumbo Jim or Juggernaut Pro when spring comes around, but I suspect I'll be back on the Vanhelgas sooner rather than later.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_20150508_111458-3.jpg
    Easy to set up tubeless, but Vee has a better bead lock

    Pros:

    • Tubeless ready
    • Great around tread pattern and tire profile. Pronounced side knobs.
    • Rolls surprisingly well

    Cons:

    • Could have an ever tighter bead. Vee's tires get a better bead lock.
    • The rubber is a bit too hard for slippery autumn conditions. Softer rubber could however very well have ruined them (see Bulldozer)

    45NRTH Dillinger 120tpi
    Size: 4"
    Tubeless ready: Not officially. I didn't try, but I don't think it would be a problem.
    Weight: Ca 1300g
    Used on Rolling Darryl (80mm) and Marge Lite (65mm) with tubes

    Score: 5/10

    I owned the first version of the Dillinger. Kudos for being first on the market, but they were a bit of a disappointment. They could stop you from wiping out uncontrollably if you hit an unexpected ice patch, but "ice rides" were ruled out after the first attempt. Narrow studded tires will always have the edge on fat tires on ice, since each stud will have a lot less weight on it with the wider foot print, but the slightly rounded studs in the Dillinger did very little to improve the situation. To truly make it "a master of none", the knobs are low and small compared to tires such as Nate or Vanhelga, making them less than stellar on snow as well.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_20150108_152722.jpg
    Not a chance!

    The 120tpi "Dillinger 4" has the same concave studs as the Dillinger 5, which should give you better grip on ice. The 27 tpi version still use the slightly rounded studs. If you're looking for a good snow tire with studs, and don't have room for the Dillinger 5, I'd consider buying something like Nate, and studding them yourself.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20141222_124726-2.jpg
    Well behaved in easy conditions

    Pros:

    • First available studded tire
    • Good quality
    • Rolls pretty well

    Cons:

    • Not brilliant on ice
    • Not brilliant on snow

    45NRTH Dillinger 5 120tpi
    Real size: Ca 4.5"
    Tubeless ready: Not officially, but works very well
    Weight: Ca 1550g
    Used tubeless on Marge Lite (65mm)

    Score: 8/10

    The Dillinger 5 is a different animal than the Dillinger. The knobs are larger, it has two whole rows of knobs extra, concave studs and larger volume. I've ridden them on ice, but not a lot of snow. The tread do however look very promising, so the Dillinger 5s are now my all round winter tires of choice.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20160106_135056.jpg
    Allround!

    Take a look at Paochow's extensive testing for more details: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/win...a-1000161.html

    Pros:

    • Adresses my complaints about the Dillinger very well
    • Good quality
    • Rolls pretty well (at least compared to the Bulldozers I switched from)

    Cons:

    • Expensive
    • Bead could be even tighter

    Surly
    The original, and maybe a bit old fashioned. Decent quality. Slack beads make them challenging to set up tubeless. Uncompromising winter tires, with hard rubber compounds and often aggressive tread patterns.

    Surly Bud & Lou 120tpi
    Size: 4.8"
    Tubeless ready: Not even close
    Weight: Ca 1600g
    Used on 103mm rims with tubes

    Score: 8/10

    Bud and Lou are simply the best snow tires out there. Great volume and huge 7mm deep knobs gives you unparalleled traction on most snowy conditions, at least until you hit an icy patch. Bud's front specific directional tread allows you to push the bike into corners as if you were riding a dry summer trail. The knobs does however make a ridge down the center line of the tire, which can feel a bit funny on hard surfaces. Several bikes come with Lou front and back, and I'm guessing this is the main reason.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20140415_114028.jpg
    Excellent floatation and grip on snow

    I've run these tires on Weinmann 103mm rims, and on low pressures the slack bead can make the tire slip up and down the rim. This was enough to rub away part of the outer rubber, exposing the casing threads.

    Pros:

    • The daddies on snow!

    Cons:

    • Rolling resistance on hard surfaces
    • The hard rubber makes them quite slippery on hard, wet surfaces.
    • Very slack beads

    Surly Nate 120tpi
    Size: 4"
    Tubeless ready: No
    Weight: Ca 1350g
    Used on 80mm rims with tubes

    Score: 7/10

    Lou's little brother. Smaller volume and slightly shallower knobs. The center knobs are perpendicular to the direction of travel, which gives great traction on snow, but does increase rolling resistance and noise(!) on hard surfaces.

    Pros:

    • Best 4" alternative for snow!

    Cons:

    • Rolling resistance on hard surfaces
    • Hard rubber
    • Slack beads

    Surly Larry & Endomorph
    Size: 4"
    Tubeless ready: No
    Weight: ?
    Used on 80mm rims with tubes

    Score: N/A - not really my thing

    Semi slick tires on the same casing as Nate. Not much more to say. I prefer tires with more tread for both snow and trails.

    Vee tire co
    Tires from Vee are a bit of a conundrum. The quality is excellent, and they are available in both standard rubber and two different kinds of silica rubber, which is the stickiest compound available for fat tires. They are also very easy to set up tubeless with nice, tight beads. The tread pattern is on the other hand very strange. Most of their models have a very narrow tread, making the carcass the widest part of the tire by far. It looks like they are missing an entire row of knobs on each side, which makes them feel pretty strange on the trails. The exceptions to this are the Bulldozer, the Snowshoe XL and the Snowshoe 2XL.

    Vee H-Bilie
    Size: 4.25"
    Tubeless ready: Yes
    Weight: 1320g (claimed)
    Used on 65mm rims with tubes

    Score: 3/10

    Promising tire, but the tread pattern is too narrow. Even on narrow 65mm rims the tire profile becomes square.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-2014-11-22-2.jpg
    Punk is dead!

    Pros:

    • Good quality
    • Tread pattern is sensible, just too narrow

    Cons:

    • Mohican

    Vee Snowshoe
    Size: 4.5" (4.7" and 4.8"(?) also claimed)
    Tubeless ready: Yes
    Weight: ?
    Used on 103mm rims with tubes

    Score: 4/10

    Wider version of the H-Billie, with slightly larger knobs. Same problem with too narrow treads and square tire profile, at least on a 103mm rim.

    Pros:

    • Good quality
    • Tread pattern is sensible, just too narrow

    Cons:

    • Mohican

    Vee Bulldozer Silica
    Size: 4.7"
    Tubeless ready: Yes
    Weight: ?
    Used tubeless on 65mm rims

    Slippery autumn score: 7/10
    Any time else score: 1/10

    Finally, a Vee tire with a tread pattern which matches the size for the casing! Proper sized side knobs, with low center knobs. I bought these tires in Vee's sticky silica compound to battle slippery, wet roots and rocks in the Norwegian autumn. The good news is that the traction on these hard slippery surfaces is great! The bad news are twofold: 1) The center knobs are to shallow to give decent traction on mud, and 2) ROLLING RESISTANCE! The ROLLING RESISTANCE (the sheer magnitude can only be expressed in capital letters) is incredible. The low knobs gives the tires a huge contact point, and combined with the sticky silica rubber this makes the bike incredibly sluggish. Any sort of acceleration or turning becomes a real chore, and you really have to man handle the bike to change directions. It's like running the 100m sprint in rubber boots. In 10cm of treacle.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_qomurg.jpg
    The Bulldozer's only acceptable habitat - wet, wet autumn

    The Snowshoe XL might be better, since the contact point on hard surfaces should be smaller.

    Pros:
    • Great traction on slippery, hard surfaces
    • Reasonably prized
    • Tight beads gives excellent bead lock

    Cons:

    • ROLLING RESISTANCE! Seems to magnify the sluggish downside to fat bikes.
    • Too low center knobs for mud


    Conclusion
    Tires have a large impact on the fat bike experience! The kind of riding you do also matters, as well as tire pressure, technique, your wheels and your bike. Your milage might definitely vary, but these are my favourites:

    Pure snow: Surly Bud/Lou
    Allround winter: 45NRTH Dillinger 5
    Spring/summer: 45NRTH Vanhelga
    Wet and slippery autumn: Vee Bulldozer Silica
    Last edited by Farbar; 01-11-2016 at 10:15 AM. Reason: English lesson

  2. #2
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    Great write up!

    I agree on all accounts!

    Were you able to run the D5 tubeless on the Bucksaw? I was able to initially, but then ended up losing first and second gear after it stretched

    Also if you haven't already, I'd try the Vanhelgas in the snow- I was really surprised at how well they did.
    '17 Cutthroat
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  3. #3
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    Thanks! As chance would have it, I started to write this right before you posted your excellent and thorough winter tire writeup. While this isn't close to being as methodical, I hope it still can be useful.

    The D5s does indeed rub the chain on the first two gears on the Bucksaw. I have a friend running this setup with no issues, so I think it could be done with luck and manufacturing tolerances on your side. I have a new Nextie Black Eagle II based wheelset in the works, so I haven't done anything to try to fix it on my bike yet. I might look into spacing out the crank arm or trim the side knobs if I still have problems with the new wheels.

  4. #4
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    Kudos to both of you for your reviews. Very useful information, very usefully presented.

  5. #5
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    I've got to give you only 3 stars for giving original Dillingers 5/10 and constantly referring to tread as thread. Tread is your contact point, thread as in TPI. Larry and Endo are superb sand tires. Bud & Lou seem to be dethroned by the 2XL Snowshoes.

    It would have been better to add to Paochow's fine thread instead of creating a second one within a few days, IMO.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    I've got to give you only 3 stars for giving original Dillingers 5/10 and constantly referring to tread as thread. Tread is your contact point, thread as in TPI. Larry and Endo are superb sand tires. Bud & Lou seem to be dethroned by the 2XL Snowshoes.

    It would have been better to add to Paochow's fine thread instead of creating a second one within a few days, IMO.
    Did you read the OP's last post? Sheesh....

    As chance would have it, I started to write this right before you posted your excellent and thorough winter tire writeup. While this isn't close to being as methodical, I hope it still can be useful.
    I was on here yesterday morning when both of these threads popped up - they both appeared within a pretty short time of each other. It actually is a possible coincidence that someone can be working on a lengthy post/review like this and someone else posts one at the same time, which you don't see it until you post your own.

    Moving on....I've only been running D5s since winter kicked in. Anyone use them for a full season on dirt last year and care to chime in?
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    I've got to give you only 3 stars for giving original Dillingers 5/10
    I didn't like them, as I thought they were neither here nor there, as described in the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    and constantly referring to tread as thread. Tread is your contact point, thread as in TPI.
    Thanks, I didn't know that. Will be fixing the post later.

    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    It would have been better to add to Paochow's fine thread instead of creating a second one within a few days, IMO.
    I started writing this post the day before Paochow posted his. Considered joining it, but I kept them apart since his post had a very systematic and thorough approach to testing a small set of winter tires. My post is a simple comparative review based on whatever I've been riding the last few years, for all four seasons.

  8. #8
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    Nice review. However, IMO the D4 is much better than you suggest. Granted, we have not had real winter in Anchorage this year or last, but the D4s have been perfect for our hard packed to icy trails with an occasional snow fall. They roll fast, have good traction and are fine on ice. When it is pure sheet ice 29er studs rule, but for hard snow and intermittent ice the D4s are great.

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    Thank you for taking the time to write this up!

    I don't really see the harm in having your own thread. Big threads aren't always easy to navigate through.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    Nice review. However, IMO the D4 is much better than you suggest. Granted, we have not had real winter in Anchorage this year or last, but the D4s have been perfect for our hard packed to icy trails with an occasional snow fall. They roll fast, have good traction and are fine on ice. When it is pure sheet ice 29er studs rule, but for hard snow and intermittent ice the D4s are great.
    I agree. I have lots of miles on both original Dillingers and D5s. I just did a comparison on smooth & rough water ice and the difference is very subtle. The advantage of Dillingers over any nonstudded tire is huge. Going with Farbar's rating of 8/10 for D5s, I would give the original Dillingers a 7.5/10 (actually would rate both higher). And no, neither give the confidence of an old set of Freddies Revenz. If it's as steep as it looks, Farbar's "Not a chance" photo above looks like it would pucker you up (and throw you down) on almost any studs.

    1ice bulge.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-dillinger-5-studs-medium-.jpg  

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-dillinger-stud1-medium-.jpg  

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-dillinger-studs-medium-.jpg  

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-dillinger-5-stud1-medium-.jpg  


  11. #11
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    My comparison between the original Dillingers and the D5s on ice could be unfair, as I never rode them back to back on the same conditions. My reference point with the originals also was standard 26" studded tires, where you basically can ride with impunity. My expectations probably were lowered when I switched to D5s last December.

    As for snow, the tread on the D5 is substantially burlier. The knobs are larger and deeper, and there are more of them. I cannot fathom any way this wouldn't translate into better traction for any sort of challenging snow.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-1745540-0sjgq71bfhre-dsc08109-medium.jpg
    Pic from unknown source. D5 on the right, next to D4 or the original Dillingers.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    45NRTH Dillinger 5 120tpi
    (...)
    Cons
    • Expensive
    • Bead could be even tighter
    Update on the beads: I ride D5s tubeless on Marge Lites, which aren't tubeless ready. I haven't found the magic minimum pressure I can ride without loosing air, but last ride I lost 1 psi, going from from 4.5psi to 3.5psi with a lot of frozen tubeless goo on the outside tire walls. I really wish 45NRTH could adopt Vee's tighter beads, but I guess that could make them more difficult to mount on tubeless ready rims.
    Last edited by Farbar; 01-22-2016 at 11:00 AM.

  13. #13
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    The Dillinger 5s proved their allround credentials today. We've had a mild spell, and it's been around freezing the last few days. This means the heavily trafficked trails are pure ice, while the smaller ones are a strange mix of hard and soft snow, or no snow at all. The D5s kept me upright on the ice without issues, and left me snickering to myself on everything else. Best ride so far in 2016!


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Update on the beads: I ride D5s tubeless on Marge Lites, which aren't tubeless ready. I haven't found the magic minimum pressure I can ride without loosing air, but last ride I lost 1 psi, going from from 4.5psi to 3.5psi with a lot of frozen tubeless goo on the outside tire walls. I really wish 45NRTH could adopt Vee's tighter beads, but I guess that could make them more difficult to mount on tubeless ready rims.
    Thanks for keeping this thread going. My D5s have locked up great on Clownshoes with no leakage whatsoever, and I've run them so low that they didn't even register on my Meiser gauge. They actually set up much better than Bud/Lou did on the exact same rims with the same tape job.

    But more tubeless-specific rim and tire options sure would be nice. I'm going to be swapping the Clownshoes out soon for Mulefut/D5s as my primary wheelset. Clownshoes will get the Bud/Lou combo as my secondary wheelset for when I really need the floatation.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  15. #15
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    Farbar; Excellent thread and Great pics.
    Our experience with the studded D5 is that it is an OK tire on ice . Factory studded, possibly has less rolling resistance in the cold than the Ss XL factory studded . But has a bit less traction in snow than the Ss. .
    Nothing gives the amount of ice traction as the 3/8" pancake head framing screws. ( I know I mention them alot, Thats because they are that amazing)
    Good to know about the Vanhelgas as I need to get 4 new summer/fall tires .

  16. #16
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    The quest continues. Bought a pair of Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.0 as a lighter alternative to my 45NRTH Vanhelgas. The plan was to run LiteSkin in front, and SnakeSkin in the back. With claimed weights of 990g and 1090g, they should make a noticeable difference to the 1230g Vanhelgas.

    Didn't quite turn out that way. On my digital kitchen scales, the LL weighed 1084g, the SS 1179g and the Vanhelgas I've run a year 1214g. The JJ's look like decent tires, but I have no use for them when they are this close to the Vanhelgas I already love. Wound up selling both JJs at cost.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20160130_145754.jpgFarbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20160130_145922.jpg

    Not sure what I'll do this summer. Just ride Vanhelga and be happy, buy 2x JJ LS or Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4.0". The Juggernauts looks nice, but I fear they will be to flimsy. There's not a lot of sharp rocks around there, but the Bucksaw begs you to ride hard. I'd hate to damage my brand new Nextie carbon rims due to tires not being up to the task.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post

    Didn't quite turn out that way. On my digital kitchen scales, the LL weighed 1084g, the SS 1179g and the Vanhelgas I've run a year 1214g. The JJ's look like decent tires, but I have no use for them when they are this close to the Vanhelgas I already love. Wound up selling both JJs at cost.
    So you didn't try them because they weighed 0.20 lbs more than you thought? Wouldn't the tread on the tire have a much larger difference than the minor weight difference you are seeking?

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    The Bulldozer works much better in the front if you run it backwards so that the ramped side of the center knobs hit the ground first. Lower rolling resistance and much less self steer. IMO, Vee should actually label the tires as bi-directional.

  19. #19
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    Great write-up, thanks!

    I am trying to decide on summer tires for my fatty, and this really helps. Most of what I have seen have been winter focused (which makes sense, we are in the middle of winter) but this was helpful.

    I am currently running Nates (that I studded) on Marge Lites right now and as a newbie I am not sure I can really tell the difference between tires, but know I like running the studded tires as they grab well on the random ice patches I encounter around here.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    The quest continues. Bought a pair of Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.0 as a lighter alternative to my 45NRTH Vanhelgas. The plan was to run LiteSkin in front, and SnakeSkin in the back. With claimed weights of 990g and 1090g, they should make a noticeable difference to the 1230g Vanhelgas.

    Didn't quite turn out that way. On my digital kitchen scales, the LL weighed 1084g, the SS 1179g and the Vanhelgas I've run a year 1214g. The JJ's look like decent tires, but I have no use for them when they are this close to the Vanhelgas I already love. Wound up selling both JJs at cost.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure what I'll do this summer. Just ride Vanhelga and be happy, buy 2x JJ LS or Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4.0". The Juggernauts looks nice, but I fear they will be to flimsy. There's not a lot of sharp rocks around there, but the Bucksaw begs you to ride hard. I'd hate to damage my brand new Nextie carbon rims due to tires not being up to the task.
    I was also a little disappointed in weight of the JJ SS tires. I have a set of the liteskins that were true to weight (990-1000), and worked awesome for a summer tire, except they puncture easily. The SS seem much stiffer and durable, but are 180-190gr heavier so there is no free lunch.

    I also bought a set of the Juggernaut Pros 4.0 and they are paper thin. Very light, but about as thin as you can get. I'd love to put them on my Whisky rims for a MTB light wheelset, but also worry about potentially destroying a rim.
    '17 Cutthroat
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon
    '15 Fatboy Expert

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post

    Not sure what I'll do this summer. Just ride Vanhelga and be happy, buy 2x JJ LS or Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4.0". The Juggernauts looks nice, but I fear they will be to flimsy. There's not a lot of sharp rocks around there, but the Bucksaw begs you to ride hard. I'd hate to damage my brand new Nextie carbon rims due to tires not being up to the task.
    I love my JJ, they roll great and have great traction in the corners. I was thinking on trying VH next, but have heard they roll slower than JJ.

    You are right about the Vee bulldozer, they roll like you have your brakes on. To get them to roll well, they start to get bouncy.

    This spring I may go FBN on 65mm and JJ 4 on 80mm

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    So you didn't try them because they weighed 0.20 lbs more than you thought? Wouldn't the tread on the tire have a much larger difference than the minor weight difference you are seeking?
    I didn't try them because they appeared to be very close to the Vanhelgas in both weight and function. I can't think of any conditions where I might strongly prefer one over the other, and I can only ride one set at a time. Since I could sell the JJs at cost when new, I chose not to loose any money.

    The Vanhelgas roll impressively well.

  23. #23
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    I'm looking for a 4" summer tire with low rolling resistance. I was considering the 45NRTH Husker Dü, any experience comparing the HuDu to the Van Helga in terms of weight and rolling speed? The Specialized Fast Trak 4.0s are a possibility for me as well if they ever come available and we see a weight for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    I didn't try them because they appeared to be very close to the Vanhelgas in both weight and function. I can't think of any conditions where I might strongly prefer one over the other, and I can only ride one set at a time. Since I could sell the JJs at cost when new, I chose not to loose any money.

    The Vanhelgas roll impressively well.

  24. #24
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    Never seen Hüsker Dü in Norway. I guess the lack of popularity is probably explained by the general lack of dry trails.

    We did however invent the name! "Husker du?" ("Do you remeber?") was a music show for the elderly, which ran on Norwegian television from 1971 to 1985.



    Lovely!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husker_Du_(Norway)

    It was also a Danish board game, which probably gave the american rock band it's name, and then again the tire. I do prefer to imagine it's all down to our horrible television history .

  25. #25
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    Ok, in that case, I don't think this thread can go any further without a Hüsker Dü classic:



    I'll likely be rolling on H-Düs this summer as well. Great dirt option, and a tire named after one of my favorite bands from that era don't hurt.

    FWIW, I'd probably buy a tire named Fugazi as well.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Farbar's "Not a chance" photo above looks like it would pucker you up (and throw you down) on almost any studs.
    Stuff like that requires more grip than any factory studded tire can provide.
    Need Kold Kutters or similar for that, they make sections of glare ice like that feel like sandstone. Stud the shoes as well, as you will pop a wheelie on the steepest stuff. BTDT.


    320 Kold Kutters into Vee Snowshoe 4.5:

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    I also bought a set of the Juggernaut Pros 4.0 and they are paper thin. Very light, but about as thin as you can get. I'd love to put them on my Whisky rims for a MTB light wheelset, but also worry about potentially destroying a rim.
    Juggernaut Pro 4.0 turned up at a local internet shop at a much lower price than previously available (less then half the price of Vanhelgas in Norway). Not in stock, but I ordered a pair. At that price, it's probably worth it even if I only ride them a couple of weeks a year.

  28. #28
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    Compared to bud and lou I am excited to see that he d5 has a much more "round" profile across the tread area. I bet these corner great on dirt singletrack, not that bud doesn't.

  29. #29
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    Update: I've now ridden the Juggernaut Pros for a couple of weeks, and the short term verdict is in.

    Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4"
    Size: 4"
    Tubeless ready: Yes
    Weight: Ca 850g!
    Used tubeless on Nextie Black Eagle 65mm carbon hoops

    Score: 7/10

    The Juggernauts are surprisingly capable trail tires. The grip is quite good, even if the tread pattern is quite XC-y. They are also very, very light, which means the side walls are paper thin. I haven't had any issues with them yet, but these are not the tires for rocky terrain.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-20160527_142414.jpg
    13,5kg of Bucksaw 1. The Juggernauts are 500g lighter that the stock Nates each, not including getting rid of the two 350g(?) stock tubes.

    Pros:

    • Amazingly light!
    • Decent grip
    • Good quality


    Cons:

    • Paper thin side walls


    Conclusion: Not bad at all, but Jumbo Jim is probably a better all round choice for many trail riders.

  30. #30
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    Couple of cool mornings here in the Northland.


    Preemptive strike on the inevitable "What winter tire should I buy?" question.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  31. #31
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    2019 update

    I've mostly ridden skinnier tires the last two years (27.5x2.8" and 29x2.5"), but I still ride my Bucksaw at winter. Two updates, which are also my current fat tire recommendations:

    Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4.0" PaceStar Snakeskin

    Great allround tires.

    Pros:
    • Rolls great
    • Grips ok
    • Proper side knobs
    • Durable

    Cons
    • Slippery when wet. The newer version with Addix rubber might be better.


    45Nrth Wrathchild 26x4.6"

    Best fat studded tire I have tried! Blows all Dillingers out of the water, and works just as good in the snow as on ice. Handles bare patches fine too, but not a tire I'd use before the snow and ice settles in.

    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_20190101_151608_641.jpg
    Icy snow is the Wrathchild's natural habitat

    Pros:
    • Proper aggressive tread pattern for snow
    • Proper studs for ice
    • Holds the studs a lot better than its little brother, the WC 27.5x3.0"

    Cons:
    • HOW MUCH?!
    • NO, REALLY. HOW MUCH?
    • The beads are a bit slack. Had to use a compressor to set them up tubeless.


    Farbar's tire shootout (Vanhelga, Bud/Lou, Dillinger 5, Bulldozer...)-img_20181229_174135.jpg
    Wrathchild 27.5x3.0" and 26x4.6". The plus version is even angrier, but tends to lose studs quite easily. Haven't lost a single one in 5 varied rides on the fat version.
    Last edited by Farbar; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:40 AM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlim View Post
    I'm looking for a 4" summer tire with low rolling resistance. I was considering the 45NRTH Husker Dü, any experience comparing the HuDu to the Van Helga in terms of weight and rolling speed?
    I got my fat bike secondhand (one previous owner) and it came with Husker Dus but they were slightly worn. I've since fitted Vanhelgas. About the same weight, somewhere between 1250 & 1300g, but the rolling resistance of the Vanhelgas is noticeably more than the HDs. I couldn't quantify it without a power meter and timing a specific route. Both tyres mounted tubeless on 80mm Mulefut rims.

  33. #33
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    Wrathchild fit on Bucksaw?

    How are those Wrathchilds fitting on the Bucksaw? Plenty of clearance? Ok with 80mm wheels?

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    2019 update

    45Nrth Wrathchild 26x4.6"

    Best fat studded tire I have tried! Blows all Dillingers out of the water, and works just as good in the snow as on ice. Handles bare patches fine too, but not a tire I'd use before the snow and ice settles in.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Icy snow is the Wrathchild's natural habitat

    Pros:
    • Proper aggressive tread pattern for snow
    • Proper studs for ice
    • Holds the studs a lot better than its little brother, the WC 27.5x3.0"

    Cons:
    • HOW MUCH?!
    • NO, REALLY. HOW MUCH?
    • The beads are a bit slack. Had to use a compressor to set them up tubeless.


    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1235163
    Wrathchild 27.5x3.0" and 26x4.6". The plus version is even angrier, but tends to lose studs quite easily. Haven't lost a single one in 5 varied rides on the fat version.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    How are those Wrathchilds fitting on the Bucksaw? Plenty of clearance? Ok with 80mm wheels?
    Haven't studied it in detail, but it's comfortable with 65mm Nextie rims. Came from Dillinger 5s, which just squeezed in, and the Wrathchilds are slightly smaller. 80mm might be ok, but it's hard to tell. You could buy one and try it on the back wheel. If it doesn't work, use it as a front tire and find something else for the back. If it does fit, just buy another one.

  35. #35
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    Lots of great info in here but I cant agee with there being no cons of the wrathchild, its like pedaling a dirtbike compared to anything else I've ridden. The Gnar and the WC have the highest rolling resistance I've ever experienced. You immediately notice the "braking" effect when you stop pedaling vs other tires when you can glide/pump through trail sections you'll find yourself pedaling the wrathchild just to keep moving.

    I've currently settled on the 120 tpi concave studded 27.5 D4s for an every day winter tire. We get lots of freeze thaw and mild snow storms so our groom is usually pretty hard. These tires handle everything in my region without sacrificing too much traction for rolling resistance.

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