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  1. #1
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    FAT E bike and Arnold.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BvR_aCFA...eo_watch_again

    Should have put FAT in the title.
    Last edited by Bumpyride; 03-27-2019 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

  2. #2
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    Possible to stop posting motorcycle stuff on the FatBike forum ?


    Please ?
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Possible to stop posting motorcycle stuff on the FatBike forum ?

    Please ?

    If you can't tell the very obvious difference between an ebike and a moto you probably aren't the right person to be deciding what belongs on which forum.

  4. #4
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    Thanks Mike, I'm tired of trying to make peace with this stuff. I own one, it's fun, I haven't ruined anyone or anything, and there it is. Still ride sans assist, 99% of the time...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    I have a very good friend that lives up in Northern Washington. He loves to Kayak on the Skagit River. He'll take his pickup and Kayak 10 miles or so up river and launch the Kayak or he'll take the pickup and E-Bike down river. He'll take his E-Bike back up the road to get pickup or Kayak down to the pickup.

    He lives in a very redneck part of the state. He's been run off the road intentionally by assholes up there. His E-Bike gives him the opportunity for exercise and safety, not to mention being able to get on the river.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Thanks Mike, I'm tired of trying to make peace with this stuff. I own one, it's fun, I haven't ruined anyone or anything, and there it is. Still ride sans assist, 99% of the time...
    Really simple ebike stuff belongs on ebike form, not on the fatbike form.

  7. #7
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    If it has a throttle, be it electric or petrol then it`s motorcycle...
    If its a motor that is pedal assisted then its a bicycle...

    God i`m glad we have a UK Fatbike Forum again for this side of the Atlantic as this side is sure full of moaning minnies to be bothered much more looking in on!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Really simple ebike stuff belongs on ebike form, not on the fatbike form.
    Volunteer to mod, you can have at it, moving posts, all day long.

    Besides, Bikes Direct bought this forum, hook line and sinker a few years back, it's been pretty much white noise garbage and lowest price point whinging ever since, so the eBikes really don't strike me as all that troublesome in comparison.

    Sad too, as there used to be great content and discussion, as well as innovative ideas, and real community.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    If it has a throttle, be it electric or petrol then it`s motorcycle...
    If its a motor that is pedal assisted then its a bicycle...
    If wishes were fishes.

    I'll just leave this here for you to ponder.

    E bike and Arnold.-motor-human-hybrid.jpg
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    i will just leave this hear so you can complaint what a bicycle with a electric motor is considered by U.S. federal land managers.

    EMS TRANSMISSION 07/07/2015

    Information Bulletin No. 2015-060



    To: All Field Officials

    From: Acting Assistant Director, Resources and Planning

    Subject: Electronic Powered Bicycles on Public Lands



    An electronic bicycle, also known as an e-bike, is a bicycle with an integrated electric motor. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) classifies e-bikes as motorized vehicles, as defined at 43 CFR 8340.5 “(a) Off-road vehicle means any motorized vehicle capable of, or designed for, travel on or immediately over land, water, or other natural terrain, excluding: (1) any non-amphibious registered motorboat; (2) any military, fire, emergency, or law enforcement vehicle while being used for emergency purposes; (3) any vehicle whose use is expressly authorized by the authorized officer, or otherwise officially approved; (4) vehicles in official use; and (5) any combat or combat support vehicle when used in times of national defense emergencies.”

    There is a great variety of e-bikes available and some can be used for mountain biking. Public interest in the use of e-bikes on Federal public lands is rising. As a transportation and recreation option, e-bikes represent an opportunity to reduce emissions, as they also appeal to a growing demographic with physical limitations to conventional bicycling. These factors contribute to a corresponding increase in interest and utilization on public lands. The BLM manages e-bikes similar to the U.S. Forest Service (FS). The FS manages e-bikes as a motor vehicle per their Travel Management Rule.

    For more information or if you have questions about e-bikes, please contact Dennis Byrd., Outdoor Recreation Planner, Division of Recreation and Visitor Services (WO-250), at 202-912-7252 or by email at: DByrd@blm.gov.



    Signed by: Authenticated by:

    Michael H. Tupper Robert M. Williams

    Deputy Assistant Director Division of IRM Governance,WO-860

    Resources and Planning

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    i will just leave this hear so you can complaint what a bicycle with a electric motor is considered by U.S. federal land managers.
    ...
    An electronic bicycle, also known as an e-bike, is a bicycle with an integrated electric motor. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) classifies e-bikes as motorized vehicles,
    ...
    You've provided nothing new. This is well known. Well, in the States it is well known.

    Given your spelling and thinking this is new, you're likely not from/in the States. Here's a brief and simplified explanation.
    • The BLM has to manage a wide diversity of lands comprising a huge area of federal lands across the whole of the U.S.. (here's an idea of just how big the states is https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/su...l#post14013630)
    • E-bikes face a number of varying legal definitions, up, down and all around the various levels of jurisdiction.
    That bulletin was required to prevent people thinking they'll get around the Federal 'motorized vehicles' restriction due to various jurisdictions enacting that legal e-bikes shall be: regarded as, or deemed as, or treated as, bicycles under the law.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    That bulletin was required to prevent people thinking they'll get around the Federal 'motorized vehicles' restriction due to various jurisdictions enacting that legal e-bikes shall be: regarded as, or deemed as, or treated as, bicycles under the law.


    That just sounds like your interpretation, I don’t see anything there to back up your view please provide where you found the (Law) if you will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    That just sounds like your interpretation, I don’t see anything there to back up your view please provide where you found the (Law) if you will.
    Well, there's nothing for me to interpret. What law are you expecting to find? The BLM bulletin is very clear. I haven't heard of the BLM nor the U.S. Forest Service changing their policies in this regards. Google yourself out.


    Edit: Sorry!
    My bad.
    I followed it "back when", so it's obvious to me, so I explained what it's about without explaining what it's about to someone not from here.

    E-bikes are not restricted from all BLM lands:
    • The bulletin clarifies that E-bikes are not exempt from the restriction against 'motorized vehicles' using trails designated for "non-motorized use".
    • E-bikes can use BLM roads and trails designated for motorized use.
    Last edited by Canoe; 03-27-2019 at 07:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpyride View Post
    I have a very good friend that lives up in Northern Washington. He loves to Kayak on the Skagit River. He'll take his pickup and Kayak 10 miles or so up river and launch the Kayak or he'll take the pickup and E-Bike down river. He'll take his E-Bike back up the road to get pickup or Kayak down to the pickup.

    He lives in a very redneck part of the state. He's been run off the road intentionally by assholes up there. His E-Bike gives him the opportunity for exercise and safety, not to mention being able to get on the river.
    Is there a motor on his Kayak ?
    Just wondering....
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Is there a motor on his Kayak ?
    Just wondering....
    He takes his pickup and kayak upstream and paddles downstream to his house, then takes his E-bike to retrieve the pickup. He takes his pickup and E-Bike downstream, takes the E-bike back to his house, and paddles downstream to his truck, and then returns to his house.
    Last edited by Bumpyride; 03-27-2019 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

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    Should have titled it: FAT E-Bike and Arnold. That was the only reason why I posted it in the FAT bike thread.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If you can't tell the very obvious difference between an ebike and a moto you probably aren't the right person to be deciding what belongs on which forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Thanks Mike, I'm tired of trying to make peace with this stuff. I own one, it's fun, I haven't ruined anyone or anything, and there it is. Still ride sans assist, 99% of the time...
    I know that you guys sell bikes/parts as a living and that E-bikes are or can become a part of your business. I get that.

    I just wish these thread can be directed in the right forum.
    I don't think it's too much to ask.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I know that you guys sell bikes/parts as a living and that E-bikes are or can become a part of your business. I get that.

    I just wish these thread can be directed in the right forum.
    I don't think it's too much to ask.
    Apparently others think differently.

    You'll try any angle. With the logic of a four year old. That isn't going to change the definition of e-bike/eMTB, or motorcycle, or anything else you have difficulty with.

    Electrics are a part of bicycles. They're a part of Fat Bikes.
    Don't hurt your brain.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    You'll try any angle. With the logic of a four year old. That isn't going to change the definition of e-bike/eMTB, or motorcycle, or anything else you have difficulty with.
    It's not the definition that people around here have problems to understand it's the "essence" , the basic difference between a Motored bike and a bike.
    I should try three year old logic , maybe you'll understand better:
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/motor

    I know that it's a very hard concept to grasp , even for a three year old, but hey , I've tried !
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Everyone understands that e-bike/eMTB have an electric motor. An electric motor is part of their practical definition and of their legal definition. It is childish of you to keep saying that people think otherwise.

    What you aren't willing to understand is that e-bike/eMTB are primarily bicycles with the qualifier of also having an electric motor; not mopeds, not motorcycles. The bicycle part is a key essential component their practical definition and legal definition. Those definitions already exist. You can't redefine things just because you're having a mental disjoint of not being willing/able to accept that things are what they are.

    At first you seemed sincerely uninformed, then a bit confused. Then you progressed to disingenuous posts. Your persistence in presenting that you're going to get to redefine what is already ready part of wide public usage, products and is even defined in enacted law in most jurisdictions, makes me wonder if your not being willing (able?) to accept that things are as they are isn't something you might benefit from bringing up with your doctor. They're here. This is what they are. Don't hurt your brain.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    At first you seemed sincerely uninformed, then a bit confused. Then you progressed to disingenuous posts.
    Only sarcasm , always.
    If I ever ask someone if his kayak has a motor : that's sarcasm too.

    Hope you get that one.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    If it has a motor, no longer a bicycle, they are strictly human powered.
    Perhaps that's why they call a bicycle with an electric motor an e-bike?
    Surely you didn't miss that in the thread title or the posts.
    Not my definition, it is
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe
    already ready part of wide public usage, products and is even defined in enacted law in most jurisdictions
    And electronic bicycle and e-bike appears in official goverment work, like that BLM document from a few years ago.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Only sarcasm , always.
    If I ever ask someone if his kayak has a motor : that's sarcasm too.

    Hope you get that one.
    I figured it was sarcasm, but I'm not one to try and insult a person. It's very counterproductive.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

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    ... Electrics are a part of bicycles. They're a part of Fat Bikes. ..
    What does this even mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    i will just leave this hear so you can complaint what a bicycle with a electric motor is considered by U.S. federal land managers.

    EMS TRANSMISSION 07/07/2015

    Information Bulletin No. 2015-060



    To: All Field Officials

    From: Acting Assistant Director, Resources and Planning

    Subject: Electronic Powered Bicycles on Public Lands



    An electronic bicycle, also known as an e-bike, is a bicycle with an integrated electric motor. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) classifies e-bikes as motorized vehicles, as defined at 43 CFR 8340.5 “(a) Off-road vehicle means any motorized vehicle capable of, or designed for, travel on or immediately over land, water, or other natural terrain, excluding: (1) any non-amphibious registered motorboat; (2) any military, fire, emergency, or law enforcement vehicle while being used for emergency purposes; (3) any vehicle whose use is expressly authorized by the authorized officer, or otherwise officially approved; (4) vehicles in official use; and (5) any combat or combat support vehicle when used in times of national defense emergencies.”

    There is a great variety of e-bikes available and some can be used for mountain biking. Public interest in the use of e-bikes on Federal public lands is rising. As a transportation and recreation option, e-bikes represent an opportunity to reduce emissions, as they also appeal to a growing demographic with physical limitations to conventional bicycling. These factors contribute to a corresponding increase in interest and utilization on public lands. The BLM manages e-bikes similar to the U.S. Forest Service (FS). The FS manages e-bikes as a motor vehicle per their Travel Management Rule.

    For more information or if you have questions about e-bikes, please contact Dennis Byrd., Outdoor Recreation Planner, Division of Recreation and Visitor Services (WO-250), at 202-912-7252 or by email at: DByrd@blm.gov.



    Signed by: Authenticated by:

    Michael H. Tupper Robert M. Williams

    Deputy Assistant Director Division of IRM Governance,WO-860

    Resources and Planning
    Here, not hear.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    If it has a throttle, be it electric or petrol then it`s motorcycle...
    Ummm...e-bikes have a throttle. It's pedal actuated. Without one, the motor wouldn't motor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Ummm...e-bikes have a throttle. It's pedal actuated. Without one, the motor wouldn't motor.
    Winner!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Winner!
    You'd think basic shit like this wouldn't be such a mystery to some people.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Really simple ebike stuff belongs on ebike form, not on the fatbike form.
    I wonder if the guys on the ebike forum would complain and say its a fatbike and it belongs on the fatbike forum?

    OR...if they'd just read it if they were interested or ignore it if they weren't and move on with their lives and find more important things to get riled up about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    ... OR...if they'd just read it if they were interested or ignore it if they weren't and move on with their lives and find more important things to get riled up about?
    I think that's the most telling about those riled up, yet keep clicking (and posting) on "e" related fat bike threads.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    ... Electrics are a part of bicycles. They're a part of Fat Bikes. ..
    What does this even mean?
    Electrics (controlling electronics and electric motors, and loosely, things equiped with such (and batteries... and wires, etc.)), are now used on some bicycles and are even built into some bicycles. Those (both electrics the parts, and electrics the e-bikes) are now part of the world of bicycles. They are also used on some Fat Bikes, are built into some Fat Bikes, and are now part of the world of Fat Bikes.

    (Sorry for using the term electrics; not common in N.A.. I done a fair amount of work globally, so I'm used to it.)
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Ummm...e-bikes have a throttle. It's pedal actuated. Without one, the motor wouldn't motor.
    ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    It has pedals , fat tire , so it must be a Fatbike then.
    lol
    Nice try.
    (for better effect, go find one that actually has fat tires)
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  34. #34
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    It has pedals , so it's an E-Bike , right ?
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    It has pedals , so it's an E-Bike , right ?
    lol
    You know the whole criteria.
    Of both types.
    You don't get to pick & choose for effect anymore than you get to decompose a word and try to redefine it.

    But good try.
    There's got to be a fat tire version out there somewhere. Or should we shake a finger at you for posting something that isn't fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If you can't tell the very obvious difference between an ebike and a moto you probably aren't the right person to be deciding what belongs on which forum.
    If you can't tell the difference between a bicycle and an e-bike, you probably aren't the right person to question semantics or judge others.

    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Really simple ebike stuff belongs on ebike form, not on the fatbike form.
    Apparently, this simple concept is escaping the mods and posters around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    I wonder if the guys on the ebike forum would complain and say its a fatbike and it belongs on the fatbike forum?

    OR...if they'd just read it if they were interested or ignore it if they weren't and move on with their lives and find more important things to get riled up about?
    I wonder if e-bikers have any concern about mountain bikes destroying years of building trail access. Somehow I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    I think that's the most telling about those riled up, yet keep clicking (and posting) on "e" related fat bike threads.
    What's telling is how asinine it is to post e-bike content where it doesn't belong, fully knowing the controversy e-bikes have brought to the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    lol
    You know the whole criteria.
    Of both types.
    You don't get to pick & choose for effect anymore than you get to decompose a word and try to redefine it.

    But good try.
    There's got to be a fat tire version out there somewhere. Or should we shake a finger at you for posting something that isn't fat.
    I've got a finger for you right here.

  37. #37
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    Do you get this riled when someones car beats yours at stop lights too?
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    Someone please pull the plug on this thread.

    Was supposed to be a mix of fat bikes, and kind of fat Arnold using an assist. Not meant to turn into a confrontation.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

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    The bottom line is this....couple of bike mags have had full mag reviews and articles all about electric assisted bicycles...They do not call them motorcycles.

    Yea...any use of the word ebike in any sentence should be in ebike section to avoid hurting the purest snoflakes feelings..
    lean forward

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Do you get this riled when someones car beats yours at stop lights too?
    Nope. I couldn't care less about getting beat at stop lights. I do care about losing trail access.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    The bottom line is this....couple of bike mags have had full mag reviews and articles all about electric assisted bicycles...They do not call them motorcycles.

    Yea...any use of the word ebike in any sentence should be in ebike section to avoid hurting the purest snoflakes feelings..
    No, the bottom line is this: e-bikes are not bicycles, and lumping them together is a direct threat to all of the hard work many mountain bikers have put into gaining trail access. It's not about me being delicate. It's about the delicate nature of trail access. This is obviously an impossible concept for many to understand, and it has been a dead horse for months. Still, I refuse to ignore the threat e-bikes provide and accept the inappropriate use of mountain bike forums to promote them as bicycles. There is a thread for e-bikes, which, in my opinion, is more than enough. Use it.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    No, the bottom line is this: e-bikes are not bicycles, and lumping them together is a direct threat to all of the hard work many mountain bikers have put into gaining trail access.

    Tell us exactly how a guy pedaling an e-fat-bike on the road is a threat to trail access?

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    Everybody has made their feelings known. Let it drop or just keep the thread alive.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Tell us exactly how a guy pedaling an e-fat-bike on the road is a threat to trail access?
    He isn't, and you know what the point is. If not, you have lost all credibility here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpyride View Post
    Everybody has made their feelings known. Let it drop or just keep the thread alive.
    Or maybe a mod in all their might and power could move this where it belongs. I'm fine with killing off any e-bike thread on a mountain bike forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post



    No, the bottom line is this: e-bikes are not bicycles, and lumping them together is a direct threat to all of the hard work many mountain bikers have put into gaining trail access. It's not about me being delicate. It's about the delicate nature of trail access. This is obviously an impossible concept for many to understand, and it has been a dead horse for months. Still, I refuse to ignore the threat e-bikes provide and accept the inappropriate use of mountain bike forums to promote them as bicycles. There is a thread for e-bikes, which, in my opinion, is more than enough. Use it.

    Agreed..assisted bicycles should not be where the riding public agrees they should not be. That's only right.


    Please refer to the Nov-Dec 18 Bicycling mag. The e-bike buyers guide. No where are they called motorcycles. I have looked in many motorcycling mags and have never seen an e-bike ad or article.


    I'm sure you are a good man and want to protect your riding areas for yourself...but I will take my and the bike mags interpretation of an electric assisted bicycle. Now.. what is an Arnold...
    lean forward

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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Do you get this riled when someones car beats yours at stop lights too?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    Agreed..assisted bicycles should not be where the riding public agrees they should not be. That's only right.


    Please refer to the Nov-Dec 18 Bicycling mag. The e-bike buyers guide. No where are they called motorcycles. I have looked in many motorcycling mags and have never seen an e-bike ad or article.


    I'm sure you are a good man and want to protect your riding areas for yourself...but I will take my and the bike mags interpretation of an electric assisted bicycle. Now.. what is an Arnold...
    Fair enough. I am somewhat surprised that e-bikes are advertised in bicycling magazines and not motorcycle magazines. While I agree that they are not trust motorcycles, they are not bicycles, either. They should be treated as their own category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    He isn't, and you know what the point is. If not, you have lost all credibility here.

    The point is that you take yourself too seriously, and in so doing have missed the point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    ...
    I wonder if e-bikers have any concern about mountain bikes destroying years of building trail access. Somehow I doubt it.
    I'd bet that 99% or more of them have never heard of the issue.
    And 95% of those never will.

    Which is likely why various land managers or local offices have had the press do an article near the start of their influx of spring/summer riding season reminding people that e-bikes are not allowed on trails designated "non-motorized use". If I recall correctly from one such article I read, they'd noted (~edit: they're watching) the increase in e-bike use and wanted to remind e-bike riders of the restriction.

    Are there other ways people could be informed of the issue? Perhaps someone could post in forums where riders may notice it.

    You've got a forum here where you can promote responsible use/stewardship of trails. What you're doing here - isn't that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    ...
    What's telling is how asinine it is to post e-bike content where it doesn't belong, fully knowing the controversy e-bikes have brought to the community.
    It's e-bike Fat Bike content. The majority of people see an eMTB that's a Fat Bike and the first thing they notice and comment on. A few notice, oh, that's an e-bike. They're here.

    If you don't like an e-bike Fat Bike thread, then don't frequent it. Certainly don't post in it and bring back to the top again...

    Or you could do something positive, rather than get your knickers is a knot. Like have a canned informative post that you could cut&paste that explains the need to be a responsible trail rider and a link to something(s) all about that, and including the restriction prohibiting e-bike use on trails designated "non-motorized use". What you don't want is a newbie reading a riled rant and deciding "That's just a dick post by someone with their knickers in a knot. Nothing to be concerned with here." instead of being informed that there's something important they need to know about.

    If you do post a friendly informative post, you may get a new e-bike rider going, "Cool. If I get a conventional MTB I can ride those non-motorized trails!". Or even spell that out for them. Hello? E-bikes are shown to be a gateway to getting a conventional bike; encourage that, cultivate that, don't screw it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24
    No, the bottom line is this: e-bikes are not bicycles, and lumping them together is a direct threat to all of the hard work many mountain bikers have put into gaining trail access.
    How on earth do you equate posting on a forum with a direct threat to trail access? Are you thinking that if you don't post anything here about e-bike/eMTB Fat Bikes then nobody out there is going to learn about e-bike/eMTB or trails?

    The only thing I'm aware of that's a potential threat to trail access is someone driving irresponsibly on a trail. The difference between irresponsibly driving an MTB vs. eMTB is that an irresponsible MTB rider is limited in how much they can do as their muscles tire out, whereas an irresponsible eMTB rider has the endurance of their muscles and their battery. Which is why BLM and others are watching closely in those areas where they're doing a trial on allowing e-bike access.

    I'd love to have some examples to point to of e-bikes damaging a trail. The only evidence of such I've ever seen is dick e-bike commercials - all campaign-funded marketing - and not on a trail but where they show video of a dick on their e-bike spinning the bike in a circle throwing dirt up saying something along the lines of "you could be doing this too!" Makes my blood boil. They mustn't be trail riders, so go after those and inform them so they pull/modify their ads.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    Well put.

    And around here? Nary a whiff of controversy, let alone trail closures. No one cares, and nothing is being, or has been damaged.

    Besides, the equestrians locked up all the good trails around here 30 some odd years ago by being wealthy and politically connected to enough to ask for an MTB ban at some cocktail party, over by the caviar dish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post

    I'd love to have some examples to point to of e-bikes damaging a trail. The only evidence of such I've ever seen is dick e-bike commercials - all campaign-funded marketing - and not on a trail but where they show video of a dick on their e-bike spinning the bike in a circle throwing dirt up saying something along the lines of "you could be doing this too!" Makes my blood boil. They mustn't be trail riders, so go after those and inform them so they pull/modify their ads.
    Here's a good example of one that is sure to get people riled up.
    I don't see this as a realistic portrayal of how an e-bike would actually be ridden, all it does is stir up controversy as you've mentioned.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails E bike and Arnold.-ebike.jpg  

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    That looks like a typical corner skid to me....just like we've been seeing in MTB photos for decades.

    If that is indeed a pedal assist e-bike (and I believe it is), you're not doing any kind of throttle roost with that, that's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    That looks like a typical corner skid to me....just like we've been seeing in MTB photos for decades.

    If that is indeed a pedal assist e-bike (and I believe it is), you're not doing any kind of throttle roost with that, that's for sure.
    Agreed, it's the same image you see in almost every mountain bike video, I just don't think it helps when advertising e-bikes because the perception is that they're damaging the trail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    I wonder if the guys on the ebike forum would complain and say its a fatbike and it belongs on the fatbike forum?

    OR...if they'd just read it if they were interested or ignore it if they weren't and move on with their lives and find more important things to get riled up about?
    no because e-bikers are not even human, they are meat popsicles
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    e-bike ? that shame does not wash off I don't care how you try to hide it
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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    ^^^
    Do you have anger issues to work out? Somebody quick, give him a hug.

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    These e-bike hate threads always make me wonder.....do the haters have as much disdain for people that don't ride bikes at all, as they do for those that ride e-bikes (because they cheat, are lazy, blah blah blah)?

    'Us' and 'them', the ultimate failure of mankind.

  57. #57
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    you get an e-bike thread rolling
    in an non-ebike forum

    such as this, now



    ranters gonna rant
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post

    'Us' and 'them', the ultimate failure of mankind.
    you can equally say Us vs Them is the reason for the success of mankind.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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    Wow! Really?

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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Wow! Really?

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    think hard,

    we humans are just the latest competitive advancement in DNA molecules, with tons of common and individual baggage brought along from past journeys

    oversimplified, I am trying to say ebikes are a scourge
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    think hard,

    we humans are just the latest competitive advancement in DNA molecules, with tons of baggage brought along from past journeys
    Which has nothing to do with interspecies battling over every single thing that is different from one group to the next.
    This is not DNA, it's behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Which has nothing to do with interspecies battling over every single thing that is different from one group to the next.
    This is not DNA, it's behavior.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    anyhow if this thread was properly in the e-bike forum I'd never step in here to pollute it. I stay outta there. free ranging e-bike threads get clowns like me to add noise and bother
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    no because e-bikers are not even human, they are meat popsicles
    It's interesting where/how people get their views. If they're fear based or evidence based, or wtf.

    Half of people who drive think people who bike are less than human

    https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/hal...ess-human.html

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1
    e-bike ? that shame does not wash off I don't care how you try to hide it
    I find that really odd. I don't know of anyone riding e-bike that has any perception of it being a shame, nor any hiding it. I do see some exhibiting some envy when they compare the cost of their nice e-bike/eMTB to a really nice conventional bike/MTB of a similar cost. And more so if their e-bike/eMTB is the first bike they've had in years

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ... oversimplified, I am trying to say ebikes are a scourge
    First I've heard them described that way. I'd like to know more.

    I suspect you won't be happy if you look into the "disruption" from automobiles and the hugely quick adoption. Famous photo of NYC full of traffic: horse-drawn with one automobile. Six years latter, similar photo: all automobiles except for one horse-drawn. I strongly doubt e-bike will reach that level of disruption, nor that the level they reach will happen in six years.

    But, they here, they're growing. For commutes, everything says they're going to be huge. eMTB? Already produced, sold, bought and raced at Sea Otter - and BLM is doing trials. Nothing we say or do here can change any of that.

    If someone wants a say, then what they say needs to make sense, have evidence of some sort to back it up (hence the trials), and make their arguments articulately - or all they're doing is discrediting similar but meaningful arguments of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1
    free ranging e-bike threads get clowns like me to add noise and bother
    Noise and bother. Meh.
    If you have some thoughts and facts to demonstrate something, then please educate. I'm getting hints of things where other posts' poorly thought out comments just aren't providing any meaning.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-in-Fundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton
    That looks like a typical corner skid to me....just like we've been seeing in MTB photos for decades.
    If that is indeed a pedal assist e-bike (and I believe it is), you're not doing any kind of throttle roost with that, that's for sure.
    Agreed, it's the same image you see in almost every mountain bike video, I just don't think it helps when advertising e-bikes because the perception is that they're damaging the trail.
    But it's exactly throttle roosts that I'm seeing in some e-bike ads, with "you too can be tearing up the trail", presenting them as though they're dirt-bikes. I'm waiting for the sidewall blowout in the next frame.

    Someone with some trail/stewardship credibility needs to be explaining to the sellers that this is not what those riding trails are allowed to do and how they're hurting the very market they want to be selling to.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    ^ I dislike all pictures of any MTB 'roost' and it seems 'roosts' are what sells magazines or video watches or likes, or gets people excited 'that'll be me someday', hey closed course no issue.

    where in the pics or videos does it clearly state things like 'don't do this on public trails' ? not much ever

    anywhoo

    the love of being on a bike powered by myself cannot be expressed in full externally, not by me anyway, [I ain't no Chomsky with full command of the english language and expressing ideas in words]. it is something in me, in my guts, pulse, breath, mind, sometimes (actually quite often) cold, dark, and sometimes miserable...and I slog on and on and on...

    and ...if you don't 'get it' why (some of us) love that miserable place, and think e-bikes are a scourge, then you'll never get it. you don't have to get it. you'll just get the stink eye from me when you talk about what you did on your e-bike.

    --

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^ I dislike all pictures of any MTB 'roost' and it seems 'roosts' are what sells magazines or video watches or likes, or gets people existed 'that'll be me someday'

    the love of being on a bike powered by myself cannot be expressed in full externally, not by me anyway, [I ain't no Chomsky with full command of the english language and expressing ideas in words]. it is something in me, in my guts, pulse, breath, mind, sometimes (actually quite often) cold, dark, and sometimes miserable...and I slog on and on and on...

    and ...if you don't 'get it' why (some of us) love that miserable place, and think e-bikes are a scourge, then you'll never get it.
    In this you are very very wrong. I do get that place. I hugely miss it.
    (which is no small part of why I'm posting here https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/id...a-1096674.html)

    What I don't get, is the scourge part. How does what someone else does affect what you choose to do. And to the point that e-bikes are a scourge?

    And - there are many indications that e-bikes are a gateway to those new/returning riders getting the huge bug for pure human-powered bicycles (if usually road - we kinda have to forgive them that; but with more going for eMTB, more are discovering quality conventional/pure MTB).
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    one last time

    affliction, bane, curse, plague, menace, evil, misfortune, burden, cross to bear, thorn in one's flesh/side, bitter pill, trial, nuisance, pest; torment, torture, misery, suffering; blight, cancer, canker; punishment, penalty, visitation

    --

    How does what someone else does affect what you choose to do. And to the point that e-bikes are a scourge?

    they still show up where banned because in the mind of some of these e-bikers 'it's a bike' when in the mind of the legislation 'it a motorized vehicle' which threatens our trails being shut down completely. where you been ? where I've been this happens and ....ain't no stopping it...but we have tons of Audubon fans and hikers who are looking to shut us all down (little versions of Mike V, little versions of wheeled locusts web site)
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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    Thank you for persisting past your anger to provide meaningful information.

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ...
    How does what someone else does affect what you choose to do. And to the point that e-bikes are a scourge?

    they still show up where banned because in the mind of some of these e-bikers 'it's a bike' when in the mind of the legislation 'it a motorized vehicle' which threatens our trails being shut down completely. where you been ?
    Back in 2015 the BLM shutdown the "but it's a bike" argument for their being on trails designated for "non-motorized use". (Presumably the U.S. Forest Service did the same?)

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ...where I've been this happens and ....ain't no stopping it...
    There will always be someone new who hasn't been informed yet. Hence BLM's seasonal releases. And those who think rules shouldn't apply to them, and that's what enforcement is for.

    Do you have any kind of numbers on how often either of the above (uninformed vs. a**wipes) happens, or how that may have changed since 2015 when BLM clarified their position?

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ... but we have tons of Audubon fans and hikers who are looking to shut us all down (little versions of Mike V, little versions of wheeled locusts web site)
    Very good to know.
    There was some knee-jerk fear mongering by those types back when, but I wasn't aware they were persisting beyond that there's always somebody NIMBYing that other types of users on shared-use are evil. This seems more virulent.

    As above, do you have any numbers on e-bike violations of "non-motorized use" that they could try to use? Or are those numbers typical adoption hiccups and BLM and others are aware of this and are managing it? Hard to see BLM allowing some of those trials of e-bike/eMTB if there was a scourge of issues.

    Having allowing e-bike access as a trial is important. That way:
    • they're not committed to allow it,
    • it's small enough to educate participants, monitor & enforce (i.e., power limits - no electric motorcycles), and
    • one way or the other they'll get the data to be able to settle if e-bike/eMTB can be safetly and responsibly integrated into shared use.
    And they'll know what information and enforcement levels would be required; as in, is that practical, can it be handled by existing staff, would there be additional costs and can those costs be funded.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Thank you for persisting past your anger to provide meaningful information.
    Anger ? too tame. it's rage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Anger ? too tame. it's rage.
    Sorry you're going through that. Don't give yourself a stroke.

    Take a break.

    When you're up to it, as above, please provide any more information you may have...
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    i will just leave this hear so you can complaint what a bicycle with a electric motor is considered by U.S. federal land managers. ...
    I would just like to point out that the BLM is not the whole world, just a tiny tiny part of it.

    This is an international forum, and in almost every country in Europe for example, an eBike (ie pedal assist, not hand throttle) is considered a bicycle.

    Many countries value freedom to the extent that trails are not restricted, with the result that all sections of the community cooperate to fund them and maintain them instead of squabbling over the crumbs like rats in a confined space.

    If you want funds for your trails, then getting what is going to be in a few years the largest part of the cycling population on board would be a smart move.

    Give it 10 years, and non eBikes are going to look as antediluvian as rigid singlespeeds do to the geared and suspension crowd.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    These e-bike hate threads always make me wonder.....do the haters have as much disdain for people that don't ride bikes at all, as they do for those that ride e-bikes (because they cheat, are lazy, blah blah blah)?

    'Us' and 'them', the ultimate failure of mankind.
    Yes

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    We can't ban the production of eBikes. Please, for the sake of the cute furry things!!!

    If we were to do so, I fear terribly for all the dogs, cats, rabbits and hamsters that would be kicked and stomped when the haters no longer have such a magnificent target for their vituperative natures.
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    Jocks and motorheads, kayakers and powerboaters, water skiers and fisherpeople, snowboard and skis, country mouse and city mouse, archers and gunners, white people and the rest of the world...want to add to the list?
    lean forward

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    The bottom line is this....couple of bike mags have had full mag reviews and articles all about electric assisted bicycles...They do not call them motorcycles.
    Language is a living thing , it evolves.
    Word and expressions are accepted because people starts to use them.

    Electric motors on bicycles as we know them are fairly new so if we start to use the right word , give it 5 to 10 years , the word will be associated in Pop Culture and by everyone and their mother after that.


    So in light of this , I think that there is no place in our trails for Motorcycles.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    lol
    Dream on.
    e-bike is already ingrained
    eMTB has surprising traction and popularity

    Then there's you deconstructing and trying to redefine a term with decades of ingrainment and decades of legislated meaning. What do you really think will happen...

    Instead of wasting effort on odd pipe dreams, starting thinking on positive ways of advocating for resonsible trail use. Shared use is common - and working - in many jurisdictions around the world. What can you do to cultivate that.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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    By encouraging people not to use their motorcycles on MTB trail , I am advocating.


    I'm only doing my part
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    By encouraging people not to use their motorcycles on MTB trail , I am advocating.
    I'm only doing my part
    And except for a few motorcycle/dirt-bike riders, everyone else would fully agree with you.

    There! You showed them!

    Great contribution...
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  79. #79
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    Yep , thanx

    I don't know if you are from USA but there is a famous politician there (OP would be proud) that says that if you say something often , people will make it their own.

    I'm using the same strategy , no merit at all.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  80. #80
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    I mean for an E-bike hate thread, I managed to learn two unfamiliar words: vituperative, and antediluvian

    Really! That alone is worth more than most E-bike threads. Cheers MCS and VB.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Yep , thanx
    I don't know if you are from USA but there is a famous politician there (OP would be proud) that says that if you say something often , people will make it their own.
    I'm using the same strategy , no merit at all.
    I take it it's already April Fools Day where you are.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I would just like to point out that the BLM is not the whole world, just a tiny tiny part of it.

    This is an international forum, and in almost every country in Europe for example, an eBike (ie pedal assist, not hand throttle) is considered a bicycle.

    Many countries value freedom to the extent that trails are not restricted, with the result that all sections of the community cooperate to fund them and maintain them instead of squabbling over the crumbs like rats in a confined space.

    If you want funds for your trails, then getting what is going to be in a few years the largest part of the cycling population on board would be a smart move.

    Give it 10 years, and non eBikes are going to look as antediluvian as rigid singlespeeds do to the geared and suspension crowd.

    If you read my post I did say the U.S federal land managers, not the world. Here in the U.S. the federal government controls much of the public trails, so they have a huge influence on all public land managers.

    Around where I live (Alaska) and from what I read in the many places in the U.S. there is a lot of push back from the public for bicycle access whether it be to an existing trail or new trails. It took 10 years to add a few miles more of single track to the existing single tracks by my house because of push back from general public. Funding is not necessarily the biggest problem. Adding motors to bicycles is just one more tool for the anti-bicycle folks to stop future access and remove access to existing trails. Equating advancement to bicycles like rubber tires, gearing and suspension to putting a motor on a bicycle is non-scenically.
    Don’t buy into the marketing hype ebike is just a moped bicycle + motor = moped, no matter how you control the throttle

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    If you read my post I did say the U.S federal land managers, not the world...
    I understand that.

    I was making the point that in most of the rest of the world there is not this dogmatic refusal to accept what is already a fact, the existence of the eBike, and it is treated in legislation as a bicycle.

    So like it or not the eBike is here to stay no matter how often the eBike hating Don Quixotes ride their Rocinantes into windmills.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    lol
    Dream on.
    e-bike is already ingrained
    eMTB has surprising traction and popularity
    actually ebikes barely have any traction in the industry...like 2% or less. still a big number of them, but small percentage of two wheeled pedal systems

    pictures and videos and races with ebikes, all that crap is by marketing design, not as a result of 'so many ebikes out there, so lets race them and take pictures'. it is the other way around...we built this crap and no one is buying, start the hype machine

    it is a made up world to fool you into thinking they are taking off. not at the rate the press is making it out to be....that's for sure


    however all the arguments about 'keep them offa my trails' is completely valid, we don't want anyone thinking they are OK on the trails I ride, where NONE allow motors of any type. period.

    anyhow...tooting your horn 'e-bikes are taking off and changing minds' well, maybe, but far far less than the magazines and videos and pretenduro racing is leading you to believe.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    So like it or not the eBike is here to stay no matter how often the eBike hating Don Quixotes ride their Rocinantes into windmills.
    Motorcycles as a commuting alternative = yes , it's an absolutely elegant solution , I'll probably buy one when I'll get old (Only 53 YO now)

    But Motorcycles in MTB trails : I wouldn't use the Don Quichotte analogy but more a Rambo type image/scenery
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I understand that.

    I was making the point that in most of the rest of the world there is not this dogmatic refusal to accept what is already a fact, the existence of the eBike, and it is treated in legislation as a bicycle.

    So like it or not the eBike is here to stay no matter how often the eBike hating Don Quixotes ride their Rocinantes into windmills.
    No, you don't, and neither do some of the other clueless posters in this thread. Nobody is refusing to accept that e-bikes exist. I know they exist, and that is precisely hey I am fighting so hard to define e-bikes as e-bikes, not bikes. Legislation often defines e-bikes differently than bicycles, although sometimes wattage is used to draw the line in certain applications. Why do e-bike propagandists continually resort to name-calling any person that opposes them? Avoid the issues, use name-calling to sound superior, and generally change the subject whenever facts fail you.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    I mean for an E-bike hate thread, I managed to learn two unfamiliar words: vituperative, and antediluvian

    Really! That alone is worth more than most E-bike threads. Cheers MCS and VB.
    Glad to help Drew! The world is a better place with more words in it...
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    lol
    Dream on.
    e-bike is already ingrained
    eMTB has surprising traction and popularity
    actually ebikes barely have any traction in the industry...like 2% or less.
    fokof was talking about how he's going to change the terminology from e-bike to motorcycle. lol Way too late. "e-bike" is already ingrained in multiple languages.

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ... however all the arguments about 'keep them offa my trails' is completely valid, we don't want anyone thinking they are OK on the trails I ride, where NONE allow motors of any type. period.
    Certainly not unless it's officially allowed.
    Keep your eye out for the results of the trials testing e-bikes sharing trails designated "non-motorized use" taking place in the U.S.. No idea how that will turn out.

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    anyhow...tooting your horn 'e-bikes are taking off and changing minds' well, maybe, but far far less than the magazines and videos and pretenduro racing is leading you to believe.
    That's how it always is. Some big names have invested in developing the product and now they're out to sell it.

    E-bikes are turning up more and more. But, while e-bike numbers are increasing where I am (city), I see conventional bike numbers increasing significantly more. Usually not a piece of crap pulled out from somewhere, some refurbished for students, but new bikes for the commuters & recreational riders, with little increase in 'department store crap' bike numbers. Of course, any 'department store' bike is soon off the road anyway.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    No, you don't, and neither do some of the other clueless posters in this thread. Nobody is refusing to accept that e-bikes exist.
    You might want to reread the posts before saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I know they exist, and that is precisely hey I am fighting so hard to define e-bikes as e-bikes, not bikes. Legislation often defines e-bikes differently than bicycles, although sometimes wattage is used to draw the line in certain applications.
    E-bikes are either defined directly under bicycles or in a separate section. When defined under a separate section, this often includes a clause along the lines of deemed/treated/regarded as bicycles, so beyond any rules specifically listed for e-bikes, they have to abide by the same traffic, parking, etc., as bicycles. As part of their definition, included are specific power limits and/or speed capability limits: above those limits, and they're not legally e-bikes in that jurisdiction.
    You're "fighting" for something that is already legislated.

    Perhaps you are confusing e-bikes with the bicycles with overpowered motors, which under existing laws, they are not legally e-bikes and not legally motorcycles. They are already excluded from street use and from trails designated for "non-motorized use".

    If you've got riders in an area that aren't following the law, rules or regulations, then report them for enforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Why do e-bike propagandists continually resort to name-calling any person that opposes them? Avoid the issues, use name-calling to sound superior, and generally change the subject whenever facts fail you.
    The issues aren't avoided. Imagination doesn't count. The errors and misrepresentations people make are corrected with facts. See above.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    fokof was talking about how he's going to change the terminology from e-bike to motorcycle. lol Way too late. "e-bike" is already ingrained in multiple languages.
    Yep but never too late to start a more realistic term.
    Think how "29er" became the norm in such a short time but it was formerly known as 700

    I'm only doing my part in advocating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Certainly not unless it's officially allowed.
    Keep your eye out for the results of the trials testing e-bikes sharing trails designated "non-motorized use" taking place in the U.S.. No idea how that will turn out.
    I have an idea how it could turn out : A complete mess.

    With batteries capacity expanding in both amperage and longevity , Motocycles will get more and more powerful and you'll see F*** Fa*** ripping all over the trails, thus helping ban HPV (human powered vehicles)



    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    That's how it always is. Some big names have invested in developing the product and now they're out to sell it.

    E-bikes are turning up more and more. But, while e-bike numbers are increasing where I am (city), I see conventional bike numbers increasing significantly more. Usually not a piece of crap pulled out from somewhere, some refurbished for students, but new bikes for the commuters & recreational riders, with little increase in 'department store crap' bike numbers. Of course, any 'department store' bike is soon off the road anyway.
    I agree for the commuters of the world , one more bike commuter is one car left in it's garage.
    But on MTB trails ?
    Please keep your motorcycle just beside your car.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    No, you don't, and neither do some of the other clueless posters in this thread. Nobody is refusing to accept that e-bikes exist. I know they exist, and that is precisely hey I am fighting so hard to define e-bikes as e-bikes, not bikes....
    ... use name-calling to sound superior...
    Oh, but I do. You're fighting a forlorn rearguard action against hopeless odds, a Roland at Ronceveaux.

    The public don't care that you care, in the parts of the world where cycling is regarded as transport, not a sport, eBikes are flying off the shelves. The number of people on 2 wheels is increasing.

    Legislators see this as a good thing - everyone on a bicycle is reduces the strain on road infrastructure and therefore the need for tax. Those that realise that are not going to kill the golden goose.

    Not many eBikes are being sold to enthusiasts such as yourself, it's a whole new market that will ultimately eclipse "normal" cycling.

    Similar woe about the effect of eBikes on cycling was bruited around in the late 1890s about freewheels, then in later decades about the enervating effects of having multiple ratios on your bike. Pick your bicycle modification, at some point in history, there's been a group fighting against it for some reason or other, and guess what, it's like an ant protesting against the road roller.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  92. #92
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    Why is a Ebike post in the fat bike thread? Don't they have a place to post?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2old View Post
    Why is a Ebike post in the fat bike thread? Don't they have a place to post?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Do you post your derailleur equipped fatbike in the drivetrain thread?

    So the answer is - For the same reason derailleur assisted fatbikes get posted in the fatbike thread instead of the drivetrain thread, it's primarily a fatbike.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Oh, but I do. You're fighting a forlorn rearguard action against hopeless odds, a Roland at Ronceveaux.

    The public don't care that you care, in the parts of the world where cycling is regarded as transport, not a sport, eBikes are flying off the shelves. The number of people on 2 wheels is increasing.

    Legislators see this as a good thing - everyone on a bicycle is reduces the strain on road infrastructure and therefore the need for tax. Those that realise that are not going to kill the golden goose.

    Not many eBikes are being sold to enthusiasts such as yourself, it's a whole new market that will ultimately eclipse "normal" cycling.

    Similar woe about the effect of eBikes on cycling was bruited around in the late 1890s about freewheels, then in later decades about the enervating effects of having multiple ratios on your bike. Pick your bicycle modification, at some point in history, there's been a group fighting against it for some reason or other, and guess what, it's like an ant protesting against the road roller.
    You really don't get it. Nobody that I have ever met or read a post from has been anti e-bikes used for transportation purposes. It is entirely about drawing the line at calling e-bikes mountain bikes for singletrack trail access. I'd recommend reading the detailed discussions about this in the other trail advocacy or e-bike threads. If you're too lazy to do that, then I'll be happy to rehash it here.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Do you post your derailleur equipped fatbike in the drivetrain thread?

    So the answer is - For the same reason derailleur assisted fatbikes get posted in the fatbike thread instead of the drivetrain thread, it's primarily a fatbike.
    Fat bikes belong in the other sections, because they are mountain bikes. E-bikes are not mountain bikes. They are e-bikes, and they present a direct threat to trail access for mountain bikes. It's a pretty simple concept. E-bikes are controversial and inflammatory. Keep them in the more than generously provided e-bike thread where they belong.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    they present a direct threat to trail access for mountain bikes.
    Wake up.

    In YOUR area. perhaps.

    This is like me telling someone in Phoenix or Brazil, "OMG YOU HAVE TO USE STUDDED TIRES BECAUSE I HAVE ICE ON MY TRAILS RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!"

    No such issues around here, at all. No trail closures, no wringing of Audubon/Sierra Club hands, nada. All trail shredding is left to the horses and there's been no reports of flattened children or startled grannies. AT least not any more than when MTB came along, or 29ers, or suspension, or whatever other change to the world that some types don't find personally useful right then.

    I think this is the largest thing *you guys* miss, right next to not ever riding one, but presuming to understand how their power is used, and to what effect.

    Just because YOU chose to live in an area filled with trail SJW types who like to act like dogs, (when one barks at nothing, they all bark at nothing), doesn't mean the rest of the world does, nor should they be required to accept your berating tirades as absolute truth on the matter.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    This is like me telling someone in Phoenix or Brazil, "OMG YOU HAVE TO USE STUDDED TIRE
    that's a good one !

    But on the "let's move that thread to the Thrash bin subject" :

    Getting people to talk about motorcycles on every sub forum would be like
    me telling all the delegates in the UN to talk about Brexit when it's a international conference on the use of potatoes on space flight
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    This is like me telling someone in Phoenix or Brazil, "OMG YOU HAVE TO USE STUDDED TIRES BECAUSE I HAVE ICE ON MY TRAILS RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!"
    True story, mostly clear of snow and ice here, getting up to 50 degrees, no longer a wet mess either, buddy switched to summer tires and shelved the studs...goes down the first day he rides to work with them (yesterday) on a patch of ice/moisture and rips up his jacket. Impressive, you really have to work hard to find ice now and I feel bad for him. At least he now appreciates the studs...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    I mean for an E-bike hate thread, I managed to learn two unfamiliar words: vituperative, and antediluvian
    I knew the latter from watching absurd amounts of ''Ancient Aliens'' on History Channel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    You really don't get it. Nobody that I have ever met or read a post from has been anti e-bikes used for transportation purposes.

    It is entirely about drawing the line at calling e-mountain bikes for singletrack trail access.

    I'd recommend reading the detailed discussions about this in the other trail advocacy or e-bike threads. If you're too lazy to do that, then I'll be happy to rehash it here.
    If the pilot is operating their e-bike on a single-track...in a respectable manner...where is the harm...?

    Are you not really making a premature assumption about the damage that would incur, and leaving out the damage that non e-bike users can inflict through various habits?
    "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway" John Wayne

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