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Thread: Custom Fenders

  1. #1
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    Custom Fenders

    A friend of ours spent some time and turned some Planet Bike fenders into awesome fat bike fenders, full coverage and all! nifty.

    More Pics/info through the link.
    http://nccyclery.wordpress.com/2010/...rs-done-right/
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  2. #2
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    That is awesome. Thanks for sharing!

  3. #3
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    That looks very "meant to be", a very nice job that will certainly be copied a lot!

  4. #4
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    But.....

    ...very much like the dilemma I faced with my Karate Monkey. I fitted some of the Cascadia fenders on it, and the coverage was super even with 2.35 Big Apples. Problem was they wrapped so far down the rear of the back tire that I couldn't remove the rear wheel without taking the fenders off due to the horizontal dropouts. If the dropouts were vertical, no problem, the wheel would drop right out from under the fenders. But sliding the rear wheel horizontally it gets blocked by the fender before the axle is out of the dropout slot. Have you tried removing the rear wheel yet with the fenders mounted?
    Deceleration Trauma is my middle name

  5. #5
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    I wondered the same thing Endo but looking at his photo I suspect he has just enough clearance to slide the wheel out and not much more. I have the same issue when I use fenders on my KM but am able to set the back just far enough back to get the rear wheel out without much room to spare and the rear struts are maxed out.

  6. #6
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    Those are really cool! If removing the rear wheel was an issue you could always shorten the fender... it wouldn't be a "full coverage" fender anymore, but it would probably still do the trick. And there would likely be enough clearance to remove the rear wheel.

  7. #7
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    I would like to see the underside of these. I have a set of the same fenders and this would be a cool project. Thanks for posting these.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando
    ...very much like the dilemma I faced with my Karate Monkey. I fitted some of the Cascadia fenders on it, and the coverage was super even with 2.35 Big Apples. Problem was they wrapped so far down the rear of the back tire that I couldn't remove the rear wheel without taking the fenders off due to the horizontal dropouts. If the dropouts were vertical, no problem, the wheel would drop right out from under the fenders. But sliding the rear wheel horizontally it gets blocked by the fender before the axle is out of the dropout slot. Have you tried removing the rear wheel yet with the fenders mounted?
    Oh man, I know. I have this same set up on my KM and it is SOOO hard to undo the two allen bolts and slide the fenders off. IT SUCKS!

  9. #9
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    Just found my winter project! Thanks for posting this!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by western high plains
    Oh man, I know. I have this same set up on my KM and it is SOOO hard to undo the two allen bolts and slide the fenders off. IT SUCKS!
    Yeah, I wish it was only two! Then when I'm attempting a tube change at 40 degrees and pouring rain it might even be a pleasure!
    Deceleration Trauma is my middle name

  11. #11
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    I run my wheel further back on the dropouts (for longer wheelsbase and slightly better stability). I set the fenders for that wheel placement and the wheel out fine with track style dropouts.

  12. #12
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    Sweet!

    I've been trying to figure how to do the same thing. Just not sure how to split the fender in half cleanly, I'm thinking a band saw but don't have access to one. Any other suggestions?

    Hadn't thought about tire removal until this thread, maybe someway to split the fender in half to allow for wheel removal.

  13. #13
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    Hey all-

    I've been in touch with Al, the maker of these. He says he has a template for the polycarbonate that we'll try to get distributed. Also, he may be building another set and will take pics if he does so. And FYI...rear wheel does slide out with fenders on.

    ~Ben

  14. #14
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    Hey all.

    Al Sondgeroth here. Fabricator of the Pugsley 'Sondgeroth' (might be able to come up with a better name) fenders. To answer the first question. Yes, I can take the back tire off without removing the fender. I had to put a standoff at the mount by the bottom bracket to create clearance for the front derailleur and cable. So I had to put monkey nuts in the horizontal dropouts for better tire placement in the fender. The mounts on the stays at the back of the fender are, just about, all of the way out. The result is there is just enough room to get the tire off with the fender in place.

    As Ben said, I have a paper template of the middle sections. I'll work on getting them scanned so I can post them here. I'll take more pictures of the fenders so you can get a better idea of how they came together. There were a few subtle details during the fabricating process that I'd be happy to share with you. If I make another pair I'll be sure to take pictures during the build so I can post and comment. In the meantime go ahead and ask questions.

    L8r, Al

    Btw, Here are a few more pictures of the fenders 'in action'. No more technical info. Just some fun pics on Facebook.

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=30206286674

    The pix are a few posts down.
    Last edited by Sondgeroth; 11-27-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  15. #15
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    Wow! Great job! Gonna make a set of these for sure. Thanks for sharing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth
    In the meantime go ahead and ask questions.
    Do you have any pictures of the underside of your fenders? What style stainless steel fastener? Is it screw or nut and bolt style? Thickness of Plexiglass? Thanks!

  17. #17
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    Hey commutebybicycle,

    I'll take some pictures, including the underside, this weekend and post them here.

    All of the materials for this job were scrounged from the shop where I, with the help of a couple of friends, made these. The fasteners are 4mm metric stainless steel button head screws, 1/4" in length, 3/8" where the stay mounts are. The polycarbonate(Lexan) is 1/16" thick.

    I originally planned on using some sort of pop rivet for the fasteners. I started out using screws because I figured I'd be putting together and taking apart these things severals times during the fabrication process. I stuck with the screws because they just seemed to work, I liked the way they looked and I figured that I could take them apart easily anytime I wanted. That way I can replace the Lexan if it cracks, change materials or whatever. I looked into getting low profile nylock nuts to ensure that the screws didn't vibrate loose. I ended up putting just a bit epoxy on the screw threads, because it was free. I tightened the nuts onto the screws with my fingers. I didn't wrenches because I was concerned about applying too much force and cracking the polycarbonate.

    The fenders work really well. The only issue so far is that I get a bit of wobble on the front fender when the front tire gets thrown from side to side by the snow or if it slips on ice and I need to recover. I have had the bottom stays hit the tire, but with no ill effect. For the meantime I've bowed out the stays to get more tire clearance. This has virtually eliminated the problem. I've thought about making beefier stays but this would be a minor improvement. Another approach would be to use a thicker piece of Lexan which would make a stiffer fender.

    I'm hoping to get the templates scanned this weekend. I'll post them here along with more details about the fabrication process. Again, feel free to ask questions.
    Last edited by Sondgeroth; 11-27-2013 at 09:48 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando
    ...very much like the dilemma I faced with my Karate Monkey. I fitted some of the Cascadia fenders on it, and the coverage was super even with 2.35 Big Apples. Problem was they wrapped so far down the rear of the back tire that I couldn't remove the rear wheel without taking the fenders off due to the horizontal dropouts. If the dropouts were vertical, no problem, the wheel would drop right out from under the fenders. But sliding the rear wheel horizontally it gets blocked by the fender before the axle is out of the dropout slot. Have you tried removing the rear wheel yet with the fenders mounted?
    Use the SKS Secu-clips that are normally fitted to the front guard - then you can just pop the stays out of the clips when you want to remove the wheel. Been using them for years on a fixed wheel with track ends and mudguards.

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sks-secu-...-pair-prod666/

    Not sure where you'd get them in the US, sorry.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth
    ...I get a bit of wobble on the front fender when the front tire gets thrown from side to side by the snow or if it slips on ice and I need to recover. I have had the bottom stays hit the tire, but with no ill effect....
    This issue has me worried, I have a set of the super wide PB Cascadias on my now obsolete 29er commuter (just bought a Pug). The PB fenders oscillate back and forth at the lower stays, there's a chance the fender stays will catch the tire knobs and lock up the front wheel. There's several documented incidents from victims on BF forums. Adding extra weight to the fenders will only add to the issue. SKS fenders have breakaway stay mounts on the front fenders to prevent the wheel from locking up under these conditions (fender catching tire or debris wedging between tire/fender). It's the law in Germany, PB fenders can't be sold there, not DIN certified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_N
    Use the SKS Secu-clips that are normally fitted to the front guard...Not sure where you'd get them in the US, sorry.
    All I've seen in the US is the entire stay kit, costs around $20...much cheaper solution for making the PB fenders completely safe.

    edit: Never mind, here they are, looks like an LBS can order the clips from QBP:
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=23264
    Last edited by pursuiter; 12-16-2010 at 07:14 AM.

  20. #20
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    pursuiter,

    I agree that adding the breakaway stay mounts would add safety in the case of the stay hitting the tire due to fender wobble.

    I think caution should be used when stating "Adding extra weight to the fenders will only add to the issue." There are to competing effects here, weight and stiffness. If the material is stiff enough I believe the wobble could be eliminated.

    As a ridiculous example imagine a middle section made out of cast iron. While it would be prohibitively heavy I would venture to guess that there would be no wobble. That being said I'm sure we could find a suitable material to meet the need. Maybe rolled aluminum with the right thickness could do the trick. Maybe a thicker piece of Lexan would suffice.

    I think that's one of the beauties of the design. Once the original fenders are split in half and you have the templates for the middle sections it wouldn't be too tough swap in anything you like. You could change materials, colors, pieces with logos or patterns, etc.

    How about some of that waveguide plastic that transmits light? Make the middle section out of some of that, attach some LEDs to one of the edges and the whole middle section would light up for night visibility. Okay, I know, I'm just being silly now. Anyway, you get the idea.

    I might try a thicker piece of Lexan but, in all honesty, the wobble has been a very minor issue so far.

    Al
    Last edited by Sondgeroth; 12-16-2010 at 03:14 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    This issue has me worried...there's a chance the fender stays will catch the tire knobs and lock up the front wheel. There's several documented incidents from victims on BF forums. Adding extra weight to the fenders will only add to the issue. SKS fenders have breakaway stay mounts on the front fenders to prevent the wheel from locking up under these condition...
    I can vouch for the need for breakaway stays.

    I once woke up in the middle of a road looking up at the sky admiring the clouds and then wondering what I was doing there. It felt like I lay there for a while before I realised something was wrong and crawled to the side. Luckily it was the middle of nowhere and no traffic.

    Bike was a bit further down the road with a crumpled front mudguard. Something had managed to catch at the leading edge and wedge up the whole mudguard under the fork crown. I think I went over the top when the front wheel just stopped dead. No breakaway stays or helmets in those days.

    I only had 30 miles to ride to get home
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth
    ...I think caution should be used when stating "Adding extra weight to the fenders will only add to the issue." ....
    I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I should have written something like, "adding more weight to the fenders while leaving the stays un-modified tends to make the problem even worse."

    I'm thinking mass-spring damper, this is an under-damped system, adding weight to the fenders decreases oscillation frequency and increases amplitude, it's the law.

  23. #23
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    I'm not sure what law you're talking about.

    Letís say that the stays werenít there at all. You now have a mass-spring system with no damping. The undamped natural frequency would be given by this equation;

    f = (1/2pi) sqrt(k/m)

    with m being the mass and k being the spring constant of the system. So I agree that adding mass to the system without increasing the spring constant would decrease the oscillation frequency and, since the energy has to go somewhere, increase the amplitude. But if the spring constant is increased and the mass is not then the frequency would increase and the amplitude would decrease. Adding the Lexan section did indeed add to the mass of the system but it's also conceivable that the Lexan has a significantly higher spring constant than the original PB fender material in which case the fender wobble might be better with the Lexan than without. I don't know what the fender wobble was like without the Lexan. My guess is that, with the thickness of the Lexan that I used, the wobble is no better and probably somewhat worse than the original fenders alone. There are many materials where the stiffness increases exponentially as the thickness and the mass is increased linearly in which case the net result for this system would be increased frequency and decreased amplitude with a thicker middle section. Lexan might be one of these materials. I thought I might try a thicker piece of Lexan to see if it is.

    Either way the fender wobble is an issue to be addressed. I stated that it's a minor issue for me but, right now, I'm only using this for commuting. I wouldn't bomb down any off-road trails with out fixing this problem.
    Last edited by Sondgeroth; 11-27-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth

    Let’s say that the stays weren’t there at all. You now have a mass-spring system with no damping. The undamped natural frequency would be given by this equation;

    f = (1/2pi) sqrt(k/m)

    with m being the mass and k being the spring constant of the system. So I agree that adding mass to the system without increasing the spring constant would decrease the oscillation frequency and, since the energy has to go somewhere, increase the amplitude. But if the spring constant is increased and the mass is not then the frequency would increase and the amplitude would decrease.

    I'm not going to say what he does for a living, but what he does for a living, makes Rocket Science look like Legos.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth
    ...Adding the Lexan section did indeed add to the mass of the system but it also conceivable that the Lexan has a significantly higher spring constant than the original PB fender material ....
    Good point, I didn't consider that. I started thinking about the problem using superposition and a few things came to mind:

    - This systems has almost no dampening except for what the PB fender material has.

    - Considering the fender separate from the struts in interesting. When it's attached at the fork without struts and no mud flap the resonant frequency is different from the resonant frequency with mudflap (higher F, low amplitude without the flap). I'd expect the Cascadia's hugh mudflap is adding to the issue.

    - The struts have their own resonant frequency, much higher F, lower amplitude compared to the fender. The added mass of the stock 29'er sized fenders and mudflap may be overloading the one-size-fits-all fender struts (same struts for 35mm, 45mm, 65mm and your modified fenders). Perhaps there's a better material to use for the struts, one that's stiffer and has dampening.

    - Considering Lexan separate from the fender, I don't expect it to help with the amplitude of the oscillation, the strip you spliced in will resonant nicely when supported like the fender. Maybe there's a material that will dampen the oscillation.

    A lightweight, high K spring material will work best to lower the amplitude, maybe hugh fenders are a legit app for carbon fiber
    Last edited by pursuiter; 12-19-2010 at 05:40 AM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    I'm not going to say what he does for a living, but what he does for a living, makes Rocket Science look like Legos.
    Plumber?

    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  27. #27
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    I picked up a plastic - plastic bag liner @ Ace Hardware. ($12-15)

    I was debating doing the same thing based on the earlier post by the guy from Russia.


    Link

    Figured I'd throw it out there in case it helps anyone.

    At this point I'm leaning towards not cutting up a $50 pair of fenders and making my own struts similar to this.

    Link

    But first....
    I know a place that used to have sheets of copper for sale, and I need to check on that.

  28. #28
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    Hey gang,

    Utabinator – Close. Plumber’s apprentice…I’m still learning.

    pursuiter – good comments, I agree

    - The mudflap definitely adds to the issue. It’s a huge weight at exactly the wrong spot, adds nothing to the stiffness. Removing it would be a big help to the wobble. I left it on because I think it adds to the finished look, it’s functional and I was trying to use as much of the original product as possible. A person could go a different route though. You could extend the middle section or find some other material. Maybe some sort of stiff cellophane?
    - As far as the stay material goes. Aluminum is stiffer than stainless steel. You can feel it in bike frames. Compare a Pugsley to a Mukluk. Another approach would be to use a larger diameter stay. Of course you may need to modify the stay mounts. I’m sure we could find better stay material. You could always add a third stay in front of the fork and attach it to the rack mount on the fork.
    - Carbon fiber would be a great fender material. I’m not sure how much they would cost. I scrounged all of the material so these fenders cost me $45. If I had to buy everything I scrounged I’m guessing the fenders would end up costing about $75. Valetz(the post above) looks like he’s found a pretty good $20-$25 solution. In fact, those fenders would probably be better than mine for off-road trail riding. I like the finished/meant to be look of my fenders and, with the full coverage, are probably better for commuting. There are other solutions out there. Some people have made them out of coroplast(sign material) but I find most of those pretty cheap looking. There’s also a guy that makes wood fenders by hand. They’re beautiful but cost between $200-$250.

    Right now I’m just enjoying my fenders. I might make modifications next year. If I do I’ll first focus on finding a stiffer middle section, then maybe the stays and mudflaps. But for a first try prototype I’m quite happy with what we were able to put together.

    I'll scan the templates and post them, hopefully, tomorrow. I'll also include details about some of the concerns and techniques we used during the build process. Again, comments, suggestions and questions are welcomed.

    I’ve got some more pictures.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Custom Fenders-front-fender-standoff-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-underside-front-fender-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-underside-front-mudflap-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-outside-front-mudflap-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-front-fork-mount-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-rear-tire-placement-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-bottom-bracket-standoff-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-seat-stay-standoff-sm.jpg  

    Custom Fenders-rear-fender-standoff-zip-tie-sm.jpg  

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  29. #29
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    Minimalist cheapskate version

    Three strips of fir with many coats of poly keeps me nearly presentable though the occasional truck usually covers me with slush/water by the time I make it to work. I have had two previous homemade plastic sheets and I seem to hit them with something and they crack in the cold weather. The front "fender" holds the two batteries (ahhh the zip tie).
    Being naturally hard on stuff I would probably find a way to break anything else.
    Definitely not pretty though function well after two months. The others posted here are really beautifully done. Hats off.
    a looksy

  30. #30
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    I meant to post these sooner but the holidays got in the way. Anyway here are the templates for the middle sections as well as some build notes. I've also included a couple more pictures. The mudflap is the back fender. I added it because there's a subtle difference from the front fender. On the front fender the bottom two screw heads end up under the mudflap. On the back fender they don't. I kept the spacing for all of the screws at 5". On the front fender the last screws ended up 1/2" from the end of the fender. On the back fender the last two screws ended up 1" from the end. The other picture shows some of the sanding and de-burring tools I used to smooth the wholes and edges of the materials. Again contact me with any questions, comments or suggestions. Add a post here if you build these.

    BTW, I organise a fund raising ride in the western Chicago suburbs for a foundation I started in my dad's name. The ride will be held on September 10th this year. Check it out here:

    jasef.org

    L8r, Al
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Custom Fenders-outside-back-mudflap-sm.jpg  

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando
    ...very much like the dilemma I faced with my Karate Monkey. I fitted some of the Cascadia fenders on it, and the coverage was super even with 2.35 Big Apples. Problem was they wrapped so far down the rear of the back tire that I couldn't remove the rear wheel without taking the fenders off due to the horizontal dropouts. If the dropouts were vertical, no problem, the wheel would drop right out from under the fenders. But sliding the rear wheel horizontally it gets blocked by the fender before the axle is out of the dropout slot. Have you tried removing the rear wheel yet with the fenders mounted?

    Rando, have you considered ditching the bolt/nut for the fenders and replacing it with an appropriately sized hitch or clevis pin? Would make releasing the stays a piece of cake, though it would probably eventually bugger up the threads in the fender eyelet.

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  33. #33
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    This is a great thread. On the mudflap. I would've used cable ties to attach everything together. Maybe even throughout the whole fender instead of the buttonhead screws, or even glue the lexan to the fender.
    I've made mudflaps using a stair tread and cable ties and they work good.

  34. #34
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    That's a lot of ingenuity and good work.

    However the rear fenders/mudguards of a vintage trials motorbike are just the right width and diameter for a fatbike and they do not need so much work to fit.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  35. #35
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    Velobike - I thought about the rear fenders from a off-road motorcycle and I might be inclined to use those for trail riding on a pugsley but I like the full coverage of the planet bike 29ers for commuting...which is my main use with this bike.

    scoatw - I originally thought about pop rivets to put the fenders together. I used the screws for two reasons. The first is that I had them laying around. The second is I took these things apart and put them back together a few times through the build process. The seemed to work really well so I kept them. Also, if the middle section cracked for any reason, or if I wanted to change the material it would be trivial to take them apart again. I think the glue could be problematic. As for screws in the mudflaps, for me, it's probably aesthetics more than anything. I like how it looks.

  36. #36
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    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by neal_b

    Just not sure how to split the fender in half cleanly, I'm thinking a band saw but don't have access to one. Any other suggestions?
    OK Al, how did you split the fender in half ? I'm thinking either scoring it with a razor knife or using a coping saw or a hacksaw.

  38. #38
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    I used a bandsaw with an older dulled blade. I was concerned that a new sharp blade would grab and crack the fender material. I used a guide to help keep the cut straight and put masking on fender tape to keep it from getting scratched. The bandsaw worked really well although I'm sure you could use other things. I had thought about using a dremel tool with a cutting wheel. I imagine that would work also. A few posts up I've attached some documents. Two of them are the middle section templates. There is another one called 'Pugsley fender build notes.doc'. It might be worth taking a look at the note if you're thinking of building your own. As always, feel free to ask questions.

  39. #39
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    So, are you still using these Sondgeroth? I'm in the market for some Pugs fenders, and these look pretty nice!

  40. #40
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    evandy,

    Yes, I'm still using the fenders. This winter will be their fourth season. I've made no modifications. If I'd change anything I'd stiffen the stays because every once in a while the fender wobbles enough that the stays hit the tire but it hasn't happened enough to cause me to make the modification. I use my Pugsley almost exclusively for commuting. If I did more aggressive riding or off roading I'd probably go ahead and modify the stays.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth View Post
    Yes, I'm still using the fenders. This winter will be their fourth season.
    Found my way here through a series of links starting with a Google search for "DIY Pugsley fenders". By far the nicest DIY fatbike fender project I've ever found. Wonderful idea, great craftsmanship, and spectacular DIY photos and instructions. Thanks so much for sharing these back in 2010 and continuing the information up to now!

  42. #42
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    sharalds, thanks for the great comments. It was a fun project to conceive of, build and put into action. It's great to see others get some use out of my ideas as well.

    Ride on.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondgeroth View Post
    Ride on.
    Absolutely!

  44. #44
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    Another DIY option

    Bought a UFO rear motorcycle fender on Ebay. Cut in half my son's old and broken carbon fiber hockey stick shafts. Used small bolts and nuts with Loctite and made a fender.
    I cut the front portion of this rear fender off, as my design stage was...lets just say not well planned.

    These are ugly, I fully admit, but they work, and are light.Custom Fenders-img_1400.jpgCustom Fenders-img_1399.jpgCustom Fenders-img_1401.jpgCustom Fenders-img_1398.jpg

  45. #45
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    Custom Fenders-img_20140722_140800.jpgHi Al.
    Nice job on the fenders. Very nice.

    What thickness did you use for the polycarbonite and did you have to heat it to obtain the radius without cracking?

    I recently ordered a Mongoose Dolomite with 4" wide wheels. I have found one site that carries fender for the bike, but sad to say theyvve been sold out for two months before I ordered the bike.
    This is a great idea to stretch a smaller fender to fit such a wide track. I think I may go a step further and create a cavity to fill with L.E.D.s.

    This is my ride right now. I'll deffinately be upgrading when the new bike gets here as the tires are three times as wide ;-)

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