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  1. #401
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    Looks like 4.8" will fit..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon fatty-image.jpg  


  2. #402
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    $899 in case anyone was wondering, seems reasonable, though $250 more than the $650 on the early frame price I saw.

  3. #403
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdually View Post
    Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.

  4. #404
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    There's a used Beargrease CF frame up on Facebook for $1799 which includes axles, headset and BB. I guess you're getting a known entity with the Beargrease, but I assume no warranty.

    I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just adding a comparison point. If I didn't have the Fatboy already I'd be tempted.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.
    Quite a few a peering on Carbon Fat Bike Frame, Carbon Fat Bike Frame Products, Carbon Fat Bike Frame Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com

    Prices will come down :-)

  6. #406
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    " Thanks for your attention to our products . I'm Alisa from LT Bike,very nice to know you . We're a factory and we can give you the products at good price .
    For this carbon fat bike MTB model LTK008 , it's for disc brakes with inner cables . The rear and front fork can be both thru-axle and grooved ( 197x12mm--135x15mm / 190x10mm--135x9mm ).The head tube is tapered. The available sizes are 16"/18"/20". The surface can be 3K/12K/UD, and the bottom bracket shell is 120mm (BSA), the matched seatpost size is 31.6mm .
    The price of it is $425/pcs in carbon raw finish / clear coating / matte finish . If your order is more , we can give you a discount .The matched rigid fork FK008 is $110/pcs . We can also provide you with the matched seatpost with clamp $38/pcs , headset $18/set and rear hanger for spare $10/set .
    The shipping cost is $100 for one set (Frame+Fork) by air .
    Any question , please contact me freely .
    Hope to have a chance to cooperate with you .
    Best Regards!
    Alisa
    Website: http://www.ltbikes.en.alibaba.com"

  7. #407
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    So incredible about $450 full carbon fiber fat bike frame!

    There's a huge thread over in the 29er forum about carbon Chinese 29er frames. Based on the thread it seems like they've been pretty successful, I can't say I've read all 255(!) pages, but generally people seem pretty happy with the bikes. Basically it looks like a direct sale model where the manufacturer in China sells direct to the public.

    Yes. There is the direct sale model called M2C(Manufacturer to Consumer)

    I emailed Peter, who is quite active in the 29er forum, asking if they were considering a fat bike, he responded very quickly saying that they were in the process of making the molds for a fat bike. The 29er frames are going for about $450, if the fat bike is in that range, that's a pretty cheap carbon fat bike frame!

    That is so incredible. Are you sure it is full carbon fiber fat bike frame? And who is Peter? Is he the owner of some kind of factory? And what about the testing? How can he make the cheap carbon fat bike frame?!

    I sent a follow up email asking for more details about the frames (hub width, geometry, axles). I'll post up when I get a response.

    I'm loving my FB4, every ride is so much fun, but I keep thinking about making it lighter, the weird thing is that I never even think about making my RIP9 lighter. I guess I know I have my RIP where it needs to be from a strength perspective, but the Fatty doesn't see much/any air time, I figure it can be lighter

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    I'm going to bed dreaming about a carbon fatty with custom paint....
    LOL. So you really want a carbon fatty with custom paint....YOU can come to me. And we are the manufacturer for the fat bike frame that you guys are talking about....But custom paint can cost some money. ^_^

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdually View Post
    Looks like 4.8" will fit..
    Yes. A 4.8" tire can be fit for the fatty frame. ^_^

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    $899 in case anyone was wondering, seems reasonable, though $250 more than the $650 on the early frame price I saw.
    Thanks. So where did you see the $650 frame? I bet for $650 is not for the consumer price... Maybe for wholesale price...

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Too expensive. Not ordering. I'd pay $700 shipped for frame and fork. Max.
    ....$700 including shipping cost for the frame and fork, is $700 for consumer price? That is so hard to believe..

  12. #412
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    Does the thru-axle frame come with axles? The photos don't show axles included. Normally thru-axle forks and frames come with the axles.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdually View Post
    Looks like 4.8" will fit..
    Chinese Carbon fatty-881089d1396194488-chinese-carbon-fatty-image.jpg
    The rear spacing on that appears to be 183mm/190mm. That suggests a thru-axle hub alignment groove of 3.5mm per side, which accounts for the 7mm difference. But normally isn't that 190mm/197mm?

    It's the 183mm dimension that is confusing me. Is that strange or am I confused?

  14. #414
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    agree, $899 is way too much (fork included?) when other frames go for $450.

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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    " Thanks for your attention to our products . I'm Alisa from LT Bike,very nice to know you . We're a factory and we can give you the products at good price .
    For this carbon fat bike MTB model LTK008 , it's for disc brakes with inner cables . The rear and front fork can be both thru-axle and grooved ( 197x12mm--135x15mm / 190x10mm--135x9mm ).The head tube is tapered. The available sizes are 16"/18"/20". The surface can be 3K/12K/UD, and the bottom bracket shell is 120mm (BSA), the matched seatpost size is 31.6mm .
    The price of it is $425/pcs in carbon raw finish / clear coating / matte finish . If your order is more , we can give you a discount .The matched rigid fork FK008 is $110/pcs . We can also provide you with the matched seatpost with clamp $38/pcs , headset $18/set and rear hanger for spare $10/set .
    The shipping cost is $100 for one set (Frame+Fork) by air .
    Any question , please contact me freely .
    Hope to have a chance to cooperate with you .
    Best Regards!
    Alisa
    Website: http://www.ltbikes.en.alibaba.com"



    This seems more like the price I am willing to pay .

    I would be interested to see what the actual delivered price is going to be to the UK .

    We've all seen the price jump when an actual order is placed all too often (Paypal charges , different finish up charges).

    Looking at the geo diagram I can't work out if the frame is the offset one that seemed to be getting talked about initially in this thread .

    Anyone with a better understanding of technical drawings shed any more light on this please ?




    Fat Biker

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    This seems more like the price I am willing to pay .

    I would be interested to see what the actual delivered price is going to be to the UK .

    We've all seen the price jump when an actual order is placed all too often (Paypal charges , different finish up charges).

    Looking at the geo diagram I can't work out if the frame is the offset one that seemed to be getting talked about initially in this thread .

    Anyone with a better understanding of technical drawings shed any more light on this please ?




    Fat Biker
    The dimensioned drawing does not show an offset. Although, technically it also doesn't explicitly show that there isn't an offset.

    What worries me about that drawing is that it shows a rear spacing of 183mm plus 7mm for 12mm axles for a total of 190mm. For 12mm axle setups, that should be 190mm and 197mm instead. It's like they knew that 3.5mm slots are used on each drop out to help align thru axle wheels during installation, but rather than adding 7mm to the 190mm standard, they started with too narrow of a spacing (183mm), then added 7mm to get 190mm.

    Am I crazy or is that 183mm dimension wrong?

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    The dimensioned drawing does not show an offset. Although, technically it also doesn't explicitly show that there isn't an offset.

    What worries me about that drawing is that it shows a rear spacing of 183mm plus 7mm for 12mm axles for a total of 190mm. For 12mm axle setups, that should be 190mm and 197mm instead. It's like they knew that 3.5mm slots are used on each drop out to help align thru axle wheels during installation, but rather than adding 7mm to the 190mm standard, they started with too narrow of a spacing (183mm), then added 7mm to get 190mm.

    Am I crazy or is that 183mm dimension wrong?

    I see what you're saying but the 190mm axle standard is too new for me to comment . I would like some expert opinion on this issue too or at least a list of compatible hubs/axles from the frame manufacturer .

    I suppose using traditional O.L.D. measurement techniques it all depends on the diameter of the 3.5mm guide "groove" they have cut in the dropouts .
    I.E. Some axles are fatter than others and are machined down to 9/10mm for the part that actually goes into the frame in a QR type axle , whilst the full axle diameter butts up to the inside of the frame .

    Any help here guys ?


    Fat Biker

  19. #419
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    Hmmm, i'm not following what you're getting at. Could you explain more?

    As far as I know, the 190mm and 197mm standards are clear and consistent between all manufacturers. Or at least they are in terms of hub and dropout dimensions. The only non-standardized part of this are the axles. 12mm rear axles are typically supplied with the frame because the threading and exact outer lengths are different between manufacturers. However, the diameter, spacing for the hub and 3.5mm slots are all standard.

    That's why the 183mm number is so baffling. If true, no hubs would fit it.

    Yet the q2cycling website also lists "Front Fork Spacing: 150mm". Assuming that the fork actually uses a 135mm hub, the 150 "spacing" probably refers to the tire clearance between the legs. Perhaps the person putting out this info is confused about which dimensions should be included and what the term "spacing" refers to.

  20. #420
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    Yeah, lot's of posts from me this morning. Hopefully that's a good thing rather than bad. ;-)

    I emailed q2cycling questions about the rear spacing and will report back with the answer.


    The q2cycling FM-B157+FK (Lightweight Upgraded 907 Version Carbon Fat Bike Frame B157 With Special & Better Fork + Head Tube) is the one with the drawing currently being discussed.

    Interesting to note that this frame is described as "upgraded 907 version" on the q2cycling website. Indeed, the frame is similar to the 9:zero:7 whiteout. Previously in this thread I had argued that the similarity was trivial. But with the frame now being described as a 907 version, it lends credence to this being largely a copy or at least intentionally styled after the 907. The sizing is similar except that the larger two of the three 907 sizes match the smaller two of the three q2cycling sizes. If I'm looking at that right, the q2 frame is available in what might be described as Medium, Large and Extra-Large.

    Within the past day, the webpage for this frame has been updated slightly. The dimensioned drawing was added and a few specs. I like the new overlay on the headtube picture that says "Aero & Wild Head Tube".


    Linked from the q2cycling website is a blog. Interesting...

    Fat Bike & Popularity It Becomes
    Fat Bike Frame | I Am 4 Journey

    <p>Then we also find there are the fat bikes as well. People from the cold &amp; snowy places can also have the cycling fun. <a title="Q2 Cycling Online Bike Store" href="https://www.shop-q2cycling.com/" target="_blank"><strong>Q2 Cycling</strong></a> firstly noticed the fat bike market when one of our customers let us develop the fat bikes frames together with them. So I looked into the Wikipedia:</p>
    <blockquote><p>A <b>fatbike</b> is a bicycle with over-sized tires, typically 3.7″ or larger and rims wider than 44mm, that are designed for riding on soft unstable terrain such as snow and sand. These bikes are built around frames with large forks and stays to accommodate the wide rims required to fit these tires. Fatbikes were invented for winter trail riding and racing in sub-arctic Alaska and simultaneously, for touring the deserts of New Mexico. Their utility has expanded to include all forms of cycling; they thrive in snow, sand, desert, bogs and mud as well as riding what is considered normal mountain biking.</p></blockquote>
    <p>Then we also took the <strong>carbon fat bike frame</strong> together with us to show in the Taipei Cycle Show 2014. It turned out to be a quite popular items.</p>
    <div id="attachment_968" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 697px"><a href="https://www.im4journey.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Taipei-Cycle-Show-2014-Fat-Bike.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-968" alt="Fat Bike Taipei Cycle Show 2014" src="https://www.im4journey.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Taipei-Cycle-Show-2014-Fat-Bike.jpg" width="687" height="942" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Fat Bike Taipei Cycle Show 2014</p></div>
    <p>When hanging around from booth to booth, we can also see some companies were showing their fat bikes whose frames are manufactured in our factory.</p>
    <p>The carbon fat bike frame front spacing is 150mm, while rear spacing is 190mm. Please <a title="carbon fat bike frame" href="https://www.shop-q2cycling.com/Fat-Bike-Frame/pro-p8482.html" target="_blank">click here</a> to see more information on the frame on our online bike store. It is sold at $899 for the consumer price.</p>
    <div id="attachment_926" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 790px"><a href="https://www.im4journey.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/157.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-926" alt="Head Tube-Carbon Fat Bike Frame With Special Fork" src="https://www.im4journey.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/157.jpg" width="780" height="582" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Head Tube-Carbon Fat Bike Frame With Special Fork</p></div>
    </div>
    [edited to remove a photo of questionable origin]
    Last edited by dfiler; 04-02-2014 at 08:38 AM.

  21. #421
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    q2cycling replied with the following:
    "Sorry but the frame can't fit a 197mm hub unless we need to make a bit change about the molding tools, which will cost $1000 for that happen."

    Strange, it looks like a thru-axle but only allows 190mm and not 197mm. I've written back for clarification. Is there such thing as a 12x190mm hub? Or are all 12mm hubs 197mm. (or 177mm for 170mm hub bodies)

    I've also inquired about the "150mm spacing" fork, and if axles are included.

    This could be an excellent product but they've got a bit of work to do in adequately describing the specifications.

  22. #422
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    You have to assume they took measurements off an existing frame, and I would think all would be ok. Someone has to take the chance and order one :-D

    You're right though, if they want to sell these things they need better engineer to customer interface.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mGS2tKQhdhY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  23. #423
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    They're working on it. Here's the most recent email reply. I had asked a whole bunch of stuff, including about the 150mm fork spacing, if the fork is front or rear disc spaced, and if axles are included.

    Here is the response:
    "Regarding the following question, I will have a discussion with our engineer tomorrow.

    I will come back to you as soon as possible. Thanks for your suggestion. We do need to add all the possible information to our website."

    That seems like a reasonable response to me. This is new so they're still getting it sorted out. I'll be the guinea pig and order as soon as it is confirmed not to have bizarre hub spacings.

  24. #424
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    I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.


    Isn't she friends with the guy in the classic bikejoring picture, with the dog out in front pulling the guy in the animal skin hat and snow blustering around them as they speed past the camera?

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    However, it sounds like the molds they are making will be based on these designs. I asked him to let me know when they are making their own to sell.

    His name is PeterQ520 on mtbr and he has his email address in all his posts ([email protected]).
    Can you send the picture for the fat bike frame that this Peter can offer, Please?
    Q2 Cycling

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  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    That's how I justified spending the extra to go Ti. My Grandma Estelle always told me she was "too cheap to buy twice."
    True. Too cheap. We have to think twice. I don't know why they can sell such a cheap price for consumer. I mean, for our fat bike frame, we can't even sell $500 if you order like 100 sets. There are the cost, the material, the labor cost, the testing cost.... You can't even cover the cost.
    Q2 Cycling

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  27. #427
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    That's so true....

    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.

    But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...

    Just sayin, them cheap frames come at a cost. And the cost is, Trek and Specialized don't give a sh!t. They can hold their own against that stuff. But Fatback and 907? Nope. They can't.

    So if y'all want a world where trek and specialized are the kings of the fatbike world, just buy all the cheap carbon fatties you can. No faster way to kill off the little guys who did all the work developing them. And when this does kill off Fatback and 907, you can just blame Trek and specialized, instead of blaming your cheap knock-off.

    my 2 cents. take it for what it's worth.
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  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancake Adventure View Post
    Uh, the reality is that bike companies pay for all of the tooling, testing, and design on unique products like fatbikes and fat rims.
    True. Yes. Bike factories like us,actually we pay the tooling, moulding, testing and a lot of cost. We won't be just satisfied with the OE orders. So we want to sell directly to consumers, to the owners of the bike shops, to the wholesalers... But sometimes, the OE order quantity can be large, so they aren't happy about it.
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  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Actually, you don't know exactly what they do unless you have spoken with someone about the exact example.

    Sometimes, the sourcing company (907, etc.) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the sourcing company has full rights to the tooling and any parts that come out of it. (but not always)

    Sometimes, the manufacturer (Chinese company) pays for the design and tooling. Usually, if this is the case, the manufacturer can make and sell the parts to anyone they want. (but not always)

    Sometimes, they split the costs of the design and the tooling. This is more wide open for possibilities.

    The point is, that many possible scenarios exist and you shouldn't assume anything unless you know who spent the time and money to design and build the tooling. Not to mention the legal documents that follow and support the previous information.

    Any company outsourcing components has to deal with these issues. If they don't, then they leave themselves open to having their stuff "stolen" without a legal leg to stand on if they want to do something about it.
    Yes. If the sourcing company paid for the tools, we won't sell to anyone else... That's the principle here.
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  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.


    Isn't she friends with the guy in the classic bikejoring picture, with the dog out in front pulling the guy in the animal skin hat and snow blustering around them as they speed past the camera?
    Sorry, but I got this picture from Wikipedia. The picture is used there. If it is not OK for us to use the public pictures fro image, we will delete the pictures.
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  31. #431
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    I wonder if this woman knows that her picture is being used for this company's PR. She was (or a friend of her's was) a member here that originally posted a set of those pictures.


    Isn't she friends with the guy in the classic bikejoring picture, with the dog out in front pulling the guy in the animal skin hat and snow blustering around them as they speed past the camera?
    Good eye. I know both the rider and shooter. Just sent the photog a note to see if he was aware of this use.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    Can you send the picture for the fat bike frame that this Peter can offer, Please?
    I believe that they pulled their offer back due to someone buying the molds they were expecting to use.

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    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I believe that they pulled their offer back due to someone buying the molds they were expecting to use.
    That was definitely true of the 80mm rims I ordered from synergy sports / xmiplay. However I haven't seen anything new regarding the fatbike that they may eventually offer.

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    That was definitely true of the 80mm rims I ordered from synergy sports / xmiplay. However I haven't seen anything new regarding the fatbike that they may eventually offer.
    Maybe I got those confused.

  36. #436
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    I received email from q2cycling answering questions about their fat frame. The answers have me more confused than before.

    The fork comes with a 15mm axle with a hub spacing of 150mm. 135x15mm front hubs won't work.

    I'm still not sure if the rear spacing is indeed 190x12mm or 197x12mm. My interpretation is that it is 190x12mm.

    Recommended hubs are:
    "Chosen A4786B(150mm), A8777B(190mm)
    Yu Hub"

    Googling hasn't turned anything up. Anyone know about these hubs?

    If all these specs are accurate, this will end up being quite a bit different than the 907 that it resembles. It also means that I can't use this frame or fork with my hope hubs.

  37. #437
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    That's weird, never heard of 150 spacing unless you use a rear hub in front.

    I found this: YU HUB INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD - Products

    ...but I don't see anything 150mm, its hard to navigate their site though.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    Sorry, but I got this picture from Wikipedia. The picture is used there. If it is not OK for us to use the public pictures fro image, we will delete the pictures.
    That is my photo, just because it is posted to Wikipedia doesn't mean that it is in the public domain.

    The terms of the Creative Commons License require that you provide appropriate credit. In this case, the minimum was that you should have credited Wikipedia and the photographer, Anthony DeLorenzo. You should also provide a link directly back to the source wherever possible.

    I also find it amusing that you are selling mass-produced carbon bikes by using a picture of a hand built titanium bike.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    That's weird, never heard of 150 spacing unless you use a rear hub in front.

    I found this: YU HUB INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD - Products

    ...but I don't see anything 150mm, its hard to navigate their site though.
    Notice the bit at the end of this article about forks seen at the Tai Bike Show:

    Taipei Show Round Up: Fat Bikes are Big

  40. #440
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    If 150mm is going to become a standard (or someone is going to make hubs!) it seems like the impetus would come from one of the major manufacturers first. I suppose you can buy a fork elsewhere for this bike, but it seems kind of short sighted to try to force a new standard with a brand new frame on the low end of the price spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo View Post
    That is my photo, just because it is posted to Wikipedia doesn't mean that it is in the public domain.

    The terms of the Creative Commons License require that you provide appropriate credit. In this case, the minimum was that you should have credited Wikipedia and the photographer, Anthony DeLorenzo. You should also provide a link directly back to the source wherever possible.

    I also find it amusing that you are selling mass-produced carbon bikes by using a picture of a hand built titanium bike.
    Hey Anthony,

    I did state that it is from Wikipedia, like a definition. Sorry. If you feel violated, I will delete your photo right away.

    Anyway, if your picture was taken by Wikipedia, I bet you are quite a person in the fat bike riding.

    About hand built titanium bike, I bet it was shown in our news. For all the products, it is our carbon bike pictures. Thanks for your mention.
    Q2 Cycling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    If 150mm is going to become a standard (or someone is going to make hubs!) it seems like the impetus would come from one of the major manufacturers first. I suppose you can buy a fork elsewhere for this bike, but it seems kind of short sighted to try to force a new standard with a brand new frame on the low end of the price spectrum.
    I think 150mm will become the new standard. There are quite a few hubs companies
    that can provide this kind of hubs. I can also send you guys the hubs geometry...

    So the major customers notice that we are selling online. Although it is our mold, they aren't happy about it, obviously. Because we are selling much lower price than them. Of course, we cherish them very much. So I think we will not show on our online store for now. But I want to hear about you guys' opinion about this thing. How do you think of a typical Chinese manufacturer should do? When there is no violation of agreements, should they try to have their direct way of selling? Or should they just be the way they are, just produce stuff?
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  43. #443
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    Q2 Cycling Fat Bike Frame Questions

    To the folks who love the Q2 Cycling Carbon fat bike frame,

    Thanks for you guys' discussion about the frame. It seems everybody is quite confused about the hubs.

    Here we can provide some information to you guys, that some companies have already made the hubs with the requirements.

    For more information, please kindly click here to see the hub brands, and their drawings about it.

    If you guys have any other question, let me know.

    You guys' professional discussion is really helping us. Thanks a lot.
    Q2 Cycling

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  44. #444
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    Personally I have no problem with you selling frames directly to consumers. I believe in an open market. However if I were you I would change the name of the frame. If you read through this thread you can see there is a lot of suspicion about piracy regarding direct sale products like this - using a competitor's name as the name of your frame just increases that suspicion. In the western world we like competition and innovation, but dislike copying, your marketing material sounds a lot more like copying than innovating.

    While I see that you have listed four manufacturers of 150mm hubs, I still think it will be tough to sell those forks until we can buy hubs from one of the major manufacturers (Hope, King, Shimano etc). I have heard of some of those brands you list, but I would not buy one, I want to know I've got support if something breaks or wears out. This is especially true when you are selling just a frame - the people who buy these will be people who are comfortable building things up themselves and are going to look for what they perceive as quality hubs. Those you list may be just as good as one of the name brands, but they have no reputation here.

    Just my opinion.

  45. #445
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    The information is that blog entry is really helpful. Every customer will need to know this info before buying the frame and fork.

    From an American perspective, most customers will want even more help in finding and buying hubs. We have never seen hubs of this size and the companies listed aren't selling their products on the American market. I tried googling the hubs but could not find them on a manufacturer website or for sale from any website. We will need to know how much the hubs cost and where they can be purchased.

    I can't comment on other markets. Is the same true for Europe and other regions?

    This frame and fork look like an excellent design, perhaps even the best on the market. Unfortunately the hub requirements make it unappealing to most customers. While the 150mm front hub might become a popular size/standard once fat suspension forks are common, there are not yet any 150mm hubs available. Or at least nobody here would be able to find them. The 190mmx12 instead of 197x12mm rear hub seems pointlessly different but otherwise ok.

    If I hadn't already bought hope hubs, carbon rims and spokes sized for these, this frame is exactly what I would buy. That is, if the hubs are actually available. For now I will have to continue searching for a cheap carbon frame that can fit a 135x15mm front hub and a 197x12mm or 190xQR rear hub.

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    I will throw my opinion in as well. I LOVE the look of this frame. I also really like the look of the new carbon rims (Nextie?). What holds me back is the same thing that has kept me from buying a fat bike to this point. It is too complicated to buy one. I am betting that things will all seem a lot more clear after Sea Otter this year when everyone shows their new models and standards. I suspect that this new standard is related to the upcoming suspension fork(s?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Personally I have no problem with you selling frames directly to consumers. I believe in an open market. However if I were you I would change the name of the frame. If you read through this thread you can see there is a lot of suspicion about piracy regarding direct sale products like this - using a competitor's name as the name of your frame just increases that suspicion. In the western world we like competition and innovation, but dislike copying, your marketing material sounds a lot more like copying than innovating.

    While I see that you have listed four manufacturers of 150mm hubs, I still think it will be tough to sell those forks until we can buy hubs from one of the major manufacturers (Hope, King, Shimano etc). I have heard of some of those brands you list, but I would not buy one, I want to know I've got support if something breaks or wears out. This is especially true when you are selling just a frame - the people who buy these will be people who are comfortable building things up themselves and are going to look for what they perceive as quality hubs. Those you list may be just as good as one of the name brands, but they have no reputation here.

    Just my opinion.
    You are right about the first part. It is not cool for us to use the competitor's name in our marketing material. So we will delete the relative material right away. So for people in our country, sometimes we don't think there is a violation, but in fact, it is. So we need to learn this from the western world...

    I do believe in innovation also...

    Thanks about your information about the hub manufacturers that the western world prefer...
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    On second thought...

    If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet.

    Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    On second thought...

    If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet.

    Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.
    Go man GO!

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    On second thought...

    If I can actually buy compatible hubs, I am crazy enough to sell my hope hubs (which have been stuck in US customs for weeks), and be the first to try this frame. That's right, I will sell the hubs I haven't even taken delivery of yet.

    Thank you for being so quick to answer questions and receptive of feedback q2cycling. It is fun to see a company learn how to bring a new product to a foreign market. I am also excited to see that this frame is not just a complete copy of the 9:zero:7 frame.
    I enjoy talking to you guys and seeing the discussion, I can learn quite a lot from you. The market, the things you like, and the way to express some technological parts in English.

    I think it is important for Chinese manufacturers to learn that if we don't want to be a factory that is producing stuff forever. Great sales come after the professional knowledge, the caring for customers, the integrity of the company.... ^_^

    Just for information,if you guys are worried about the hubs. We can help you purchase the hubs that we are mentioning. Chosen and Joy sent us the price list when they know we have the fat bike frame. Of course, they are just Joy and Chosen... but not Chris King, Hope, Shimano... for now.
    Q2 Cycling

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  51. #451
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    Good to hear. I have written back to the q2cycling service email account (Elaine), explaining that I want to buy the frame and fork, but only if the hubs are available.

    Are the frames ready to ship or are they still being designed and manufactured?

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post

    Just for information,if you guys are worried about the hubs. We can help you purchase the hubs that we are mentioning. Chosen and Joy sent us the price list when they know we have the fat bike frame. Of course, they are just Joy and Chosen... but not Chris King, Hope, Shimano... for now.
    It may make sense to offer those hubs with the frame as an option.
    The bad part is if the hub fails... parts or replacement options won't be readily available to most of the world.

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Good to hear. I have written back to the q2cycling service email account (Elaine), explaining that I want to buy the frame and fork, but only if the hubs are available.

    Are the frames ready to ship or are they still being designed and manufactured?
    The frame was developed later last year, and was tested successfully just before the Taipei Show. Right now, we do have the orders under production, but it will only be finished at the end of this month.

    Can I know the size and BB you like for the frame?
    Q2 Cycling

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  54. #454
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    Thanks! I will reply via email to work out ordering details.

    Edit:

    While choosing a size I noticed that the buying options (in the popup menu) are 15", 17" and 19". However the specifications chart lists sizes 17", 19" and 21".

    The middle of the three sizes on the chart has the dimensions I would like to order. That is listed on the chart as the 19" frame. From the popup menu that would mean I choose the largest option (19") instead of the middle size. Is that correct? The difference between the two size lists is confusing.

  55. #455
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    sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Thanks! I will reply via email to work out ordering details.

    Edit:

    While choosing a size I noticed that the buying options (in the popup menu) are 15", 17" and 19". However the specifications chart lists sizes 17", 19" and 21".

    The middle of the three sizes on the chart has the dimensions I would like to order. That is listed on the chart as the 19" frame. From the popup menu that would mean I choose the largest option (19") instead of the middle size. Is that correct? The difference between the two size lists is confusing.
    Yes. Size 19" is the largest here. Sorry we made a mistake about the sizing chart then. Size 21" is too big, so we can't see the market then. So right now, there are just 15", 17" and 19". And on the chart, we must delete the 21" line and put the 15" numbers in it.
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  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.
    If it wasn't for those "major" customers it seems Q2 cycling wouldn't have designs to rip off. brankulo, how about I essentially copy your architecture designs, change just a small part, and then sell them so people would not have to pay $1,000's for your name on paperwork?
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  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    sell direct, i dont need $1000 dollar stickers from your "major" customers. i can make my own for 20 bucks.
    Thanks... That is how it works in the business world.
    But the major customers, they do have more experience in the marketing and sales.. So maybe they have better management...
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  59. #459
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    i totally agree with you on this, but i am under impression that someone else not 9 zero 7 is who he refers to as "major" customer for this frame. in that case i think my comment makes a point as i doubt they will be selling it for $899. basically, you open the company, have 100 rip off frames made, put your own decals and sell it for double the price.

  60. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i totally agree with you on this, but i am under impression that someone else not 9 zero 7 is who he refers to as "major" customer for this frame. in that case i think my comment makes a point as i doubt they will be selling it for $899. basically, you open the company, have 100 rip off frames made, put your own decals and sell it for double the price.
    Lamere talked about investing a huge amount of money (ie. 2nd mortgage kind of thing) to get his frames made, I know 9:ZERO:7 also invested a ton of money, both assumed a lot of risk. Both it seems spent a lot of money on design and OWNING their own molds. I don't care who Q2 copies, it is at best highly unethical. If you feel alright supporting it go ahead, then I will be alright when your designs are copied and sold for a cheaper amount through China. I will give them a company name, "Improved HuRa Designs".
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  61. #461
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    i dont mind being copied, you know what they are saying about copying, dont you?anyways, i will gladly buy this frame if it proves to be functional.

  62. #462
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    Interesting, the hub diagrams have been removed from q2cycling's blog post that was linked to earlier. Also, the B157 fatbike page is not accessible on their website right now. Hopefully that means they're figuring out the details and are actively working on it. http://www.shop-q2cycling.com/Fat-Bi...pro-p8482.html

    On a separate topic:

    I don't find anything wrong with the business model here. Everyone involved in the bike industry invests money in their portion of that business. Chinese factories are the world leaders in the processes and technology required to build carbon bicycle components. That did not come cheaply. We have nothing to suggest that any company mentioned here, signed a closed mold contract and then breached that contract.

    Earlier they were accused of copying 9:zero:7 but now we've found out there are major differences between the B157 and the whiteout. It was also suggested that another major bike company commissioned the mold for an upcoming bike. If that's the case, will the same criticism of copying 9:zero:7 be made of that other major bike company?

    In my opinion, the moral high ground doesn't involve buying from relatively wealthy western companies who hire cheap foreign labor. Nor do I share the currently popular notion of idea ownership enforced at the end of a gun. (western patent law) Buying directly from factories will likely result in a more equitable distribution of wealth. And the existence of these factories is driving technological innovation. In other words, I consider the purchasing of these frames to be completely ethical.

  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

    I don't find anything wrong with the business model here. Everyone involved in the bike industry invests money in their portion of that business. Chinese factories are the world leaders in the processes and technology required to build carbon bicycle components. That did not come cheaply. We have nothing to suggest that any company mentioned here, signed a closed mold contract and then breached that contract.

    Earlier they were accused of copying 9:zero:7 but now we've found out there are major differences between the B157 and the whiteout. It was also suggested that another major bike company commissioned the mold for an upcoming bike. If that's the case, will the same criticism of copying 9:zero:7 be made of that other major bike company?

    In my opinion, the moral high ground doesn't involve buying from relatively wealthy western companies who hire cheap foreign labor. Nor do I share the currently popular notion of idea ownership enforced at the end of a gun. (western patent law) Buying directly from factories will likely result in a more equitable distribution of wealth. And the existence of these factories is driving technological innovation. In other words, I consider the purchasing of these frames to be completely ethical.
    You can play it how you want, but Q2 here is specifically trying to piggyback off an established brand through design copy and marketing, NOT make their own original design and marketing themselves.

    Distribution of wealth? Seriously? How about stand on your own two feet and play fair?

    My problem is not with their direct selling, it is with the blatant attempt to use other companies to do it.

    Supporting companies that do business like this is putting a price tag on your own ethics. With that, I am done.
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  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i dont mind being copied, you know what they are saying about copying, dont you?anyways, i will gladly buy this frame if it proves to be functional.
    Then you are either ignorant or don't care about working hard and taking on risk so that others can profit off of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    Lamere talked about investing a huge amount of money (ie. 2nd mortgage kind of thing) to get his frames made, I know 9:ZERO:7 also invested a ton of money, both assumed a lot of risk. Both it seems spent a lot of money on design and OWNING their own molds. I don't care who Q2 copies, it is at best highly unethical. If you feel alright supporting it go ahead, then I will be alright when your designs are copied and sold for a cheaper amount through China. I will give them a company name, "Improved HuRa Designs".
    With the current hub requirements, exactly whose design do you believe they copied. I wish they would have copied better.

    Galen

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    [Deleted]

    In attempt to not derail the thread, I have deleted my post on ethics.

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    i think i am just confident in the work i do, but lets not derail this thread

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    There are only so many ways to make these things. EVERY bike company is ripping off an idea from another company that ripped the idea off from another company and so on. Can we just have a separate thread for ethics? Nobody ever changes anyone else's mind in these arguments. We have seen them over and over about things like Wallgoose, Chinese carbon rims, Bikes Direct, etc.

  69. #469
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    i'm glad to see this thread is finally coming around with actual product. lugantri, you're funny. first of all your avi description says your "living the thug life", so you're out robbing, raping, murdering, slingin' sacks and pilfering everything in your path, then you come in here to preach moral/work ethics? pfff! well if companies go to china to do work they know what they are getting into or they are ignorant. think of this company like BASF, they don't make the things, they just make the things better. so 907 is all bent that their **** is kinda being copied and might feel the hit because they lose business? here's an idea, 907 should drop their price then to compete. i know that they can't price match, but to be 2.5x's the price that's riDICKulous. if 907 really wanted to have an edge then maybe they should learn how to do layup themselves, right her in merica! i'm done w/ you

    edit: i was using 9 zero 7 as pure example due to their name being used already. dfiler your right, i don't know their stance
    Last edited by fishwrinkle; 04-04-2014 at 02:00 PM.

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    No need to criticize 907 either. They aren't involved in this conversation so we shouldn't assume anything about their stance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    No need to criticize 907 either. They aren't involved in this conversation so we shouldn't assume anything about their stance.
    Absolutely.

    BTW, fish guy, I assume you know the "thug life " comment is meant as a joke, much like I don't actually think you look like Jack Kervorkian.

    On another note, anyone take into consideration the fact if the rear end is 190 thru axle it will bring the chainline in 7mm from everyone else's (190mm qr or 197mm thru). That may or may not be a problem for chain line issues with shifting/tire rub.
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    Well it looks like q2cycling won't be selling the frame, or at least not right now. They were kind enough to reply via email and explain the situation.

    In the coming year we will see some exciting bikes coming out of these Chinese factories. But for now he wait continues.

  73. #473
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    Like the business model or not, you have to admit this is interesting and I, for one, have learned a lot in watching this move forward.

    Care to share any more details dfiler? Maybe q2cycling will come back and explain. I'm curious what happened?

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    Copying email verbatim to a forum is something I don't do without permission. q2cycling has been excellent to deal with and I wouldn't want to try and speak for them. What I will say is that it doesn't appear anything illegal was going on, but rather that they have important relationships to maintain with key business partners. That's complete speculation on my part.

    It is somewhat ironic, that the customer service I've received far exceeded that commonly experienced with major brands. For instance, I contacted Hope for information about their hubs and let them know their website had incorrect information. Multiple times I informed them about their website being wrong and they didn't even bother to acknowledge the topic. To this day it is still broken, the tech support section is missing entirely. On the other hand, q2cycling immediately updated their online content multiple times in order to accurately portray their product. Manufacturers like q2cycling are hungry and capable of competing with the more established brands. They are still learning but are on the right track to take over a significant chunk of sales. It is fun to watch the bike industry evolve!

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    Thanks dfiler.

    Yes. Traditional Chinese manufacturers are very rush to have profit. Maybe it is because we have been poor for so long, and aren't so educated, civilized or even Godly. So we don't have quite a reputation among the western world. We were copying the ideas and even didn't pay attention to the quality. But all we cared were orders...

    But gradually, I believe China is changing, especially the people in my generation are beginning to have important positions in the business or even in the politics. Our generation loves Western culture ( the music, the movie, the show, the literature or even the faith...) We believe in free market, in democracy, in dream...

    For me, I love working. I believe hard working can help you have a difference in your life. So I am trying to have the best work performance. Learning from you guys are of very help for that, Like Jisch put, I am also learning so much to see this move forward.

    Sorry, I am kind of emotional.

    For now, the fat frame won't be available to sale online. Because we have to maintain the positive business relationship with the key partners, as dfiler put. But I believe it is just for now...Also I hope everyone can trust us that there is truly no illegal things happened.


    I hope gradually, the fat bike frameset will bring the major hub manufacturers have the 150mm and 190mm hubs available on the market. So that we all can enjoy the fun of fat bike riding....

    Cheers...
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    Hope RockShox Fat Bike Fork: 100mm Bluto RL

    Hey Guys, how about this news.

    RockShox Fat Bike Fork: 100mm Bluto RL
    The Fat Cat's Out of the Bag


    So nice to read the news!

    So CA will start the Sea Otter in a few days. I hope folks can share the news and trend then... Considering it will be in USA...And I also see what will happen in the Shanghai Show next week....
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    Someone mentioned in another thread that the 190x12mm rear spacing was a mistake on the carbon prototype frame they had sitting in front of them and that the manufacturer was redesigning it to be 197x12mm. They also said that it was likely the same frame as previewed by q2cycling. Can you confirm if it is being redesigned to be 197x12mm?

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Someone mentioned in another thread that the 190x12mm rear spacing was a mistake on the carbon prototype frame they had sitting in front of them and that the manufacturer was redesigning it to be 197x12mm. They also said that it was likely the same frame as previewed by q2cycling. Can you confirm if it is being redesigned to be 197x12mm?
    Can you send the link to me? That is weird.
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    The thread disappeared or was deleted. It was the one talking about the RockShox Bluto fork. However I was able to copy some of the info from email notifications.

    "As you say, the 7mm is just the width of the slots, so a 142 is just a TA ready 135 width and 197 is just a TA ready 190.
    A TA that measures 190 inside slot-inside slot is just a wrong design, plain and simple, and is rectified as we speak..."

    I can't find the other replies but I remember someone, perhaps the same person saying that they were sitting next to one of the 190mm spaced frames. Hopefully they can reply with more information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    The thread disappeared or was deleted. It was the one talking about the RockShox Bluto fork. However I was able to copy some of the info from email notifications.

    Espen W:
    "As you say, the 7mm is just the width of the slots, so a 142 is just a TA ready 135 width and 197 is just a TA ready 190.
    A TA that measures 190 inside slot-inside slot is just a wrong design, plain and simple, and is rectified as we speak..."

    I can't find the other replies but I remember someone, perhaps the same person saying that they were sitting next to one of the 190mm spaced frames. Hopefully they can reply with more information.
    Thanks for your information, dfiler. I don't think it is true. The rear is still the 190mm x 12mm....
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  81. #481
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    The website has framesets for sale and says the hub problem is solved as 150/190mm will become standard?

    Q2 Cycling 100% Toray T700 Aero Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Frameset 2014 New Design-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    So, where you you buy hubs from?

    Brian

  82. #482
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    every time i see this bike listed the price keeps creeping north. i think i'll just buy a used moonie for ~$1500 as this will be my 1st fatty

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    Son's just called in and found that Q2 supply the complete assembled wheelset to match their frame

    26+er Full Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Wheelset Novatec 150mm Front Spacing 190mm Rear Spacing-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    Brian

  84. #484
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    So basically $1700 for a "rolling chassis" - though I'm not sure if the wheel is built or just the hub and rim?

  85. #485
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    that looks like nextie rim. not interested in frame anymore at this price point. rims, maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Son's just called in and found that Q2 supply the complete assembled wheelset to match their frame

    26+er Full Carbon Fiber Fat Bike Wheelset Novatec 150mm Front Spacing 190mm Rear Spacing-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    Brian


    Could just be the site "squishing" the pics but if that's a 150/190 hubset in them pics I'll eat my shorts LOL

    As others have said regarding the price they are rapidly pricing themselves out of the market here .

    No offence to Q2 but I don't think many people would be prepared to risk the kind of cash they're asking for an "unheard of" manufacturer of carbon bicycle parts with an unproven quality and track record for customer warranty returns .

    I could be way off and I hope I'm wrong .
    The price of the rolling chassis needs to come down substantially for me to get involved at this point .


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  87. #487
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    Those rims are porkers too. I'll pass.
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
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    Isn't it still less than half the price of the whiteout frame? That puts it within reach for me.

    150mm front hubs should be widely available soon now that the rockshox bluto has been announced. I would bet that many brands start including it in their normal builds/bundles.

    The 190x12mmmm rear hub is still baffling though. It would be the only frame in the world with that spacing. I hope it ends up being 197x12mm.

  89. #489
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    The Whiteout frame is worth the money. I know it's a lot, but it's worth it. Have had mine since September and I have put a hurting on it to the tune of at least 2K miles here in AK and six weeks in Hawaii. And I ride things like I hate them...
    two wheel livin'..

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    Quote Originally Posted by anortherncrazy View Post
    The Whiteout frame is worth the money. I know it's a lot, but it's worth it. Have had mine since September and I have put a hurting on it to the tune of at least 2K miles here in AK and six weeks in Hawaii. And I ride things like I hate them...

    Exactly .

    The q2 frame might be quality but would it stand upto this punishment ?
    At half the price of a whiteout IF the q2 busts up and you get zero response from warranty what are you gonna get next ? Particularly with that unique rear 190 spacing .
    One of the attractions of the chinese carbon 29er's that people keep quoting is the low price and "so what if it busts" attitude "it's so cheap I'll just buy another one and still be 50% better off than if I'd bought "X" frame" can anyone say that about this now .

    Currently $919 for frameset alone excluding shipping


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    It would be easy peasy to fit a 197mm hope hub into a 190mm spacing, prolly about 20 clams at your local machine shop. That being said there are so many frames in this price point or close that I would sooner be on. Sure they might be a pound heavier but so friggen what, they will last and hold a little resale.

  92. #492
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    So I've followed this thread for quite some time, but I've missed whether this Q2 frame is actually available for single unit purchase. I seem to remember it being open, then pulled, then back again at a different price, then pulled, then available only in bulk purchase, and then pulled, and now back out at this new price. Am I confusing Q2 with other frames?

    Has anyone actually purchased a Q2 frame? Are there any other players in the overseas carbon fat bike game yet? By now, or at least before next winter, I would have expected there to be a handful of these direct frames available. It's moving slower than I thought.

  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    So I've followed this thread for quite some time, but I've missed whether this Q2 frame is actually available for single unit purchase. I seem to remember it being open, then pulled, then back again at a different price, then pulled, then available only in bulk purchase, and then pulled, and now back out at this new price. Am I confusing Q2 with other frames?

    Has anyone actually purchased a Q2 frame? Are there any other players in the overseas carbon fat bike game yet? By now, or at least before next winter, I would have expected there to be a handful of these direct frames available. It's moving slower than I thought.
    I just got back from Shanghai Show.
    We have removed all the products online. Sorry guys. As for the price on Aliexpress, it has been there for quite some time. And because we have to pay the higher commission to Aliexpress, and we want to promote our online store, the price there is a bit higher than what it used to be at Q2 online Store...

    Sorry guys, but the frameset won't be available for sell online for now. But I would love to share the news about the fat boy and the hubs thing from what I learned at Shanghai show.
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  94. #494
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    If you click on the Q2 link above it says "this item no longer available". Not a very good way to get your product out in the market!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    So basically $1700 for a "rolling chassis" - though I'm not sure if the wheel is built or just the hub and rim?
    The wheelset are built....^_^ With rims, hubs, and spokes....
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  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    If you click on the Q2 link above it says "this item no longer available". Not a very good way to get your product out in the market!
    Yes. I know. I hate to see this also...That's so bad.
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  97. #497
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    I find all this very confusing. There is a bike. There isn't a bike. I get the feeling there's a lot of manipulation for contracts going on. I seem to remember another company was going to make a frame available until some US distributor/company bought the molds.

    So is there a single, available, carbon fat frame that can be ordered direct from overseas?

  98. #498
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    this is one of the silliest dog n pony shows i've been to in a while.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    this is one of the silliest dog n pony shows i've been to in a while.
    Sorry. But very complicate. Believe me, I am not that sophisticated enough to stage a dog & pony shows. Some companies have never been ready to embrace the open & free market. They can use their "power" and the leverage to try to destroy you. I think I will write an article to let people know the true story when everything calms down. (It's my dream to be a journalist when I was still in school anyway. I don't care it will cause me to end up with the situation that will be very bad for me)
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    I think this thread probably needs an enema. Maybe once an actual Chinese Carbon frame becomes available to the public for individual purchase…somebody can/should start a new thread. This thread is 20 pages of nothing. If I'm missing a frame that actually exists and is for sale, will somebody please start talking about it. Otherwise, folks should just abandon this to the Q2 cycling rep's searing behind the scenes Chinese carbon journalism.

  101. #501
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    Smile Joy Fat Bike Hubs

    Chinese Carbon fatty-joy-150mmx15mm.jpg
    Chinese Carbon fatty-190mm-x-12mm-joy-hub.jpg

    So this is the Joy hubs with 150mm x 15mm, and 190mm x 12mm that I took pictures from their booth at Shanghai Show this week.

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  102. #502
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    I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed.

    Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  103. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed.

    Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?
    VB; how do you know this...did you see a green chicklet disappear?

  104. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I tried to give some positive rep to Q2 Cycling for keeping us informed.

    Somehow it has come across as negative. Can some more of you give him pos rep to make up for my booboo please?
    Done

  105. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Done
    Odd...I also...no change with the chicklet count...one would think that VB's mishap would have been 'corrected'.

  106. #506
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    Maybe VB higher post count took away more than I could add. On a brighter note now this thread is getting more funner

  107. #507
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    Thanks guys....
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  108. #508
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    Thanks for posting the pictures. It does look like they are QR, do you have another picture? I see it says 4in1 but I am just curious about the end caps.



    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Joy 150mmx15mm.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	190mm x 12mm Joy Hub.jpg 
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    So this is the Joy hubs with 150mm x 15mm, and 190mm x 12mm that I took pictures from their booth at Shanghai Show this week.

    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  109. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    VB; how do you know this...did you see a green chicklet disappear?
    Yep, his chiclet turned red. I've only used neg rep once or twice a long time ago, and then decided never to use the neg rep again, so this is very embarrassing !
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  110. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    Thanks for posting the pictures. It does look like they are QR, do you have another picture? I see it says 4in1 but I am just curious about the end caps.
    Sorry, I didn't take more pictures then. My limited knowledge on the hubs didn't help me realize all the aspects. I guess I will have you guys see more of the hubs when we have the hubs in May.
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  111. #511
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    Novatek 4in1 or 3in1 axle systems use interchangeable end caps and sometimes axle sleeves to convert between all the most common standards. This is pretty typical and is the strategy used by most hub manufacturers.

    It makes sense that the quick release model is labeled as 190mm because that is the spacing for quick release. That same 190mm hub body uses different end caps to support 12mm through axles. All hubs I've ever seen use 12mm through axle end caps that add 3.5mm to each side, with the result being 197mm spacing. This is the same as when 135mm quick release rear hubs are converted to through axle 142mm spacing with different end caps.

    q2cycling says that these are 190x12mm, which would surprise me. While the hub is indeed 190mm wide, the 12mm TA end caps likely make it 197mm. That is, unless this is the only hub on the planet that is truley 190x12mm. There could be a bit of confusion happening in translation. Yes, the hub bodies can be thought of as 190mm. But that isn't how they are typically described in specifications when using the 12mm through axle end caps.

    Perhaps though, if fat bikes were getting so wide in the rear that there was too much heel rub, it could make sense to ditch that extram 3.5mm per side and come up with alignment grooves on the dropouts that don't interfere with the cassette even without the extra width.

    Here are some photos of convertible hubs from the same manufacturer:
    Chinese Carbon fatty-4in1-hub.jpgChinese Carbon fatty-d881882-blk.jpg

  112. #512
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    I am not sure if you posted this in response to my question,thanks if so. I was looking for the 190 and 150 end caps. Do you have pictures of them? Do you know what the four standards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Novatek 4in1 or 3in1 axle systems use interchangeable end caps and sometimes axle sleeves to convert between all the most common standards. This is pretty typical and is the strategy used by most hub manufacturers.

    It makes sense that the quick release model is labeled as 190mm because that is the spacing for quick release. That same 190mm hub body uses different end caps to support 12mm through axles. All hubs I've ever seen use 12mm through axle end caps that add 3.5mm to each side, with the result being 197mm spacing. This is the same as when 135mm quick release rear hubs are converted to through axle 142mm spacing with different end caps.

    q2cycling says that these are 190x12mm, which would surprise me. While the hub is indeed 190mm wide, the 12mm TA end caps likely make it 197mm. That is, unless this is the only hub on the planet that is truley 190x12mm. There could be a bit of confusion happening in translation. Yes, the hub bodies can be thought of as 190mm. But that isn't how they are typically described in specifications when using the 12mm through axle end caps.

    Perhaps though, if fat bikes were getting so wide in the rear that there was too much heel rub, it could make sense to ditch that extram 3.5mm per side and come up with alignment grooves on the dropouts that don't interfere with the cassette even without the extra width.

    Here are some photos of convertible hubs from the same manufacturer:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4in1 hub.jpg 
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ID:	886007Click image for larger version. 

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    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  113. #513
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    Joy Fat Bike Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    I am not sure if you posted this in response to my question,thanks if so. I was looking for the 190 and 150 end caps. Do you have pictures of them? Do you know what the four standards?
    I think the catalogue says more.
    Chinese Carbon fatty-joy-fat-bike-hubs-catalogue.jpg
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  114. #514
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    Cool, thats a big help. I see the end caps on the front hub, still qr on the rear but I can use my imagination. One of my curiosities was regarding the 4 different styles and this answers it. I was hopeful the front was for 10mm instead of 12mm.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    I think the catalogue says more.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Joy Fat Bike Hubs Catalogue.jpg 
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    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

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    Thanks for the catalog scan. That does seem to confirm that my doubts were unfounded.

    The reason for that doubt are the dimensioned drawings showing a hub body of 183mm with end caps bringing it to 190mm. To me that seems like a miscommunication among designers and manufactures as to how that additional 7mm corresponds to a 190mm hub body. It should be added, not removed from the 190mm dimension. Otherwise the chain line is off and the chain would hit the tire, or the cassette would be too far out and hit the dropout chip or frame.

    But like I said, that's just speculation on my part. If someone actually has the frame and hub AND has successfully mounted a drive train, that would prove that there is indeed a properly designed 190x12mm spaced fat bike. That would be a rather ingenious design if successful, providing better heel clearance on the seat and chainstays.

    Edit: or another possibility is that there are no alignment tabs, just like how 150x12mm downhill hubs have to be manually held in place while inserting the axle. That was the entire reason for adding 3.5mm per side for the 142mm,177, and 197mm hub standards. It helps align the hub when inserting the axle. Because the dimensioned drawings depicted that 183 and 190mm dimension, that suggests that there are tabs/grooves and hence the doubt or confusion at not having the additional 7mm width.

  116. #516
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    Q2. Thanks for the hub information.

  117. #517
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    You are welcome...
    To be honest, I don't quite understand what you guys are talking about. I am learning every word, especially what dfiler said...
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  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    I think the catalogue says more.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    What I am seeing / interpreting from this pic is that the rear is both 10mm and 12mm quick release .
    Looking at ends of the axle though they look mighty small for 10mm , yet 9mm is not mentioned for the rear ?
    But also the 12mm x 190mm is repeated underneath which would suggest to me that a 12mm bolt through axle could also be used like a 150mm hub set up as dfiler said .

    Thanks for posting q2

    At this point I think we really do need a ton of detailed up close photos . Showing a frame with a fitted complete drive train including tyres to be able to answer at least some of the million questions that we no doubt all have regarding what will fit and what won't fit this frame.

    Having said all this is the frame back up for sale yet it's been over 24hrs since it was last taken down

    Fat Biker

  119. #519
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    imaging if bike direct started collaborating with these carbon and Ti frame manufacturers.

    its gonna be game over, son
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  120. #520
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    im patiently waiting on a deep gloss 12k weave carbon fatty frame with a suspension fork.
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  121. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by akacoke View Post
    imaging if bike direct started collaborating with these carbon and Ti frame manufacturers.

    its gonna be game over, son
    Not really, the grass is not always greener...

  122. #522
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    I would be completely insane if I was trying to build one of these, but it seems like you _might_ be able to buy one here, now-ish: Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB02) suppliers

    Edit just noticed the rear spacing is 170/190, that new adjustable mold thing

  123. #523
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    For frames like that, a key detail that manufacturers will want to include in the future is if there is enough downtube clearance for a Bluto fork. The photos make it look like the knobs on the crown might hit the downtube when the bars are turned 90 degrees. Because it was designed with a 135mm fork spacing, this wouldn't be surprising.

    The same website also lists a slightly different version, F-FB01.
    Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) products- Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) factories,manufactures,Full Carbon Fat/Snow Bikes Frames(F-FB01) suppliers
    This one has a rear spacing of 190/197mm.

  124. #524
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    In the mechanical drawings they both show a fork with what appears to be top caps (and they clear the downtube), I wouldn't trust that though.

  125. #525
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    To me it looks like a normal 135mm spaced fork in the drawing rather than a fat suspension fork like the bluto. Compare the stanchion thickness to the spacing between the stanchion and steer tube. A bluto has roughly 2 stanchions width between the steer tube and the stanchion. The drawing appears to show a fork with only 1 stanchion width between those. lol, that's not very well worded but hopefully it makes sense.

    Frames that fit the bluto seem to have more clearance by having the downtube leave the head tube horizontally and then bending downward after a few inches.

    That's just speculation on my part though. The frame could fit a bluto regardless of what the dimensioned drawing depicts.

    Chinese Carbon fatty-rockshox-bluto-rl.jpg
    Chinese Carbon fatty-f-fb01.jpg

  126. #526
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    Yep, I agree and understand what you're saying, its probably not Bluto-compliant - which at this point would make this a non-starter for me (if I was looking to buy one).

  127. #527
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    Smile Other Fat Boy

    dfiler, maybe the following picture can also say more. I got the catalogue in Shanghai Show. The factory has quite a range of frames, like the 27.5er suspension frame also. Their products seem good in the booth.

    Chinese Carbon fatty-suspension.jpg
    Chinese Carbon fatty-fat-boy.jpg
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  128. #528
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    Who put the fork on backwards?

  129. #529
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    That's even more interesting!

    I wonder what kind of fork is in that picture. It isn't a rockshox bluto. It appears to be a manitou (reverse arch) fork, perhaps a maitou tower. The tower is a 29er fork and that would explain why the arch is so far high above the tire. Are there any other brands with a reverse arch design?

  130. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    That's even more interesting!

    I wonder what kind of fork is in that picture. It isn't a rockshox bluto. It appears to be a manitou (reverse arch) fork, perhaps a maitou tower. The tower is a 29er fork and that would explain why the arch is so far high above the tire. Are there any other brands with a reverse arch design?
    Dt Swiss use a reverse arch design.

  131. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.

  132. #532
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    On Facebook the Speedercycling person references the Fatback frame directly (even posting a picture of that frame where the Fatback logo is clearly readable). There's definitely a cultural difference here in what is acceptable and what is not. I would have no problem buying a "generic" hardtail or rigid frame, but if its smells of piracy, I have a problem with that. The whole thing is pretty confusing, who owns what and what is "acceptable".

    So glad I bought the Fatboy, which is free of any kind of controversy :-)

  133. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    On Facebook the Speedercycling person references the Fatback frame directly (even posting a picture of that frame where the Fatback logo is clearly readable). There's definitely a cultural difference here in what is acceptable and what is not. I would have no problem buying a "generic" hardtail or rigid frame, but if its smells of piracy, I have a problem with that. The whole thing is pretty confusing, who owns what and what is "acceptable".

    So glad I bought the Fatboy, which is free of any kind of controversy :-)
    I have a question. I used to think American guys use fat boy=fat bike. Now there is also fat back. Is fat back or fat boy some brand's model? Or? I think I may have been using a serious mistake.
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  134. #534
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    The mystery deepens. The speeder cycling facebook page posted a picture of the reverse arch fat fork on the F-FB01 frame. Do people agree that it appears to be an actual fat fork?

    This would be news to the cycling world, another fat suspension fork! Hopefully this thread doesn't get deleted like the bluto thread got deleted prior to the rockshox official announcement.

    Chinese Carbon fatty-reverse-arch-fat-fork.jpg

  135. #535
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    Fatback is a bike manufacturer/seller out of Alaska (FATBACK –Â*Alaska Built All-Terrain Fat Tire Bikes)
    Fatboy is a specific bike manufactured by Specialized (Specialized Bicycle Components)

    I think there are several generic terms for these types of bikes, but the most common is "Fat Bike" hence the name of the forum.

  136. #536
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    (deleted = jisch answered already)

  137. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Fatback is a bike manufacturer/seller out of Alaska (FATBACK –Â*Alaska Built All-Terrain Fat Tire Bikes)
    Fatboy is a specific bike manufactured by Specialized (Specialized Bicycle Components)

    I think there are several generic terms for these types of bikes, but the most common is "Fat Bike" hence the name of the forum.
    Thanks Jisch. I do have been making the mistake...
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  138. #538
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    thanks guys for updating this thread. looking at fb01 and 02 frames i do prefer looks of fb02. can somebody explain difference between 190vs197mm? i see all fat bikes sold in us are 197mm? would i get in trouble having 190mm spacing?

  139. #539
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    I believe 190 vs 197 is simply the "chips" used to convert the frame from through axle to QR.

  140. #540
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    Yep, all currently available 190mm frames use traditional quick release skewers. The dropout chips can be replaced to support a through-axle instead. For the through axle, 3.5mm tabs are added to each side of the hub to help align the wheel when putting it in the frame. That's where the extra 7mm comes from to make it 197mm. The same is true for fat bikes with 170mm and 177mm rear spacing or normal mountain bikes with 135mm or 142mm rear spacing.

    This why I was curious about the frame mentioned earlier in this thread. It is described as 190mm with a 12mm through axle. It would be the first and only frame on the market which uses a through axle but without the extra 7mm.

    When a frame is listed as 190mm/197mm. That suggests that you can switch between two different sets of dropout chips, one for QR and the other for TA.

  141. #541
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    ok, so 190 is quick release only. how do you replace dropouts?, are they not imbeded in carbon stays? not sure what you mean by chips

  142. #542
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    The chips are fastened to the frame with bolts, if you enlarge the "mystery deepens" picture above and look at the rear drop out on the frame only pic you can see the two bolts that hold the chip in place. I have these on my Niner RIP9 as well - its pretty common with a lot of mountain bikes now (though just starting to show up in fat bikes).

  143. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I believe 190 vs 197 is simply the "chips" used to convert the frame from through axle to QR.
    Are there conversion "kits" to convert framesets/dropouts from QR to thru-axle? If so, can someone point me in the right direction. I have a non-fatbike (135mm rear) that I would l would like to switch over if this is a possiblity.

  144. #544
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    It depends on your bike. If the manufacturer doesn't offer a 142 through axle version of your frame, then its probably not possible. As far as I know those chips are pretty frame dependent, its not like there is a standard for them (though I'm sure there are frames that use similar ones).

  145. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavo View Post
    ok, so 190 is quick release only. how do you replace dropouts?, are they not imbeded in carbon stays? not sure what you mean by chips
    They normally are small pieces of aluminum that screw into the frame with two small screws. Those screws are visible if you look closely at the photos of the F-FB01 frame.

    The drive-side dropout chip also typically includes the derailer hanger. Here's a picture of a drive side dropout for a 12mm through axle. You can see the 3.5mm deep alignment slots for the hub to slide into. The threaded hole is for the derailer.

    Edit: Jisch was right in pointing out that these are custom to each frame and not all bikes have the options of running either quick release or through axles.

    Chinese Carbon fatty-dropout.jpg

  146. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    They normally are small pieces of aluminum that screw into the frame with two small screws. Those screws are visible if you look closely at the photos of the F-FB01 frame.

    The drive-side dropout chip also typically includes the derailer hanger. Here's a picture of a drive side dropout for a 12mm through axle. You can see the 3.5mm deep alignment slots for the hub to slide into. The threaded hole is for the derailer.

    Edit: Jisch was right in pointing out that these are custom to each frame and not all bikes have the options of running either quick release or through axles.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have a 2010 Rockhopper. The rear end has the hanger/dropouts mounted in a similar fashion you are describing.

    When I purchased the bike (used) I was told that the frame was convertable from SS to geared. I wonder if they have something to convert to a thru-axle.

  147. #547
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    The 2010 rockhopper had an eccentric bottom bracket that can be used to tighten the chain when running as a single speed without a rear derailer. The removable chip could be just a replaceable derailer hanger which can be replaced if damaged. I can't find photos to verify. <-- edit (I'm not sure if it has chips on both sides)

    The fatbike being discussed here is pictured with a chip on the non-drive side and is listed as 190/197mm rear spacing. That indicates interchangable dropout chips for QR and TA, not just a replaceable derailer hanger.

  148. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    The 2010 rockhopper had an eccentric bottom bracket that can be used to tighten the chain when running as a single speed without a rear derailer. The removable chip is just a replaceable derailer hanger which can be replaced if damaged.

    The fatbike being discussed here is pictured with a chip on the non-drive side and is listed as 190/197mm rear spacing. That indicates interchangable dropout chips for QR and TA, not just a replaceable derailer hanger.

    Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Guess I'll have to wait until I get a new frame/bike for the thru-axle.

  149. #549
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    This is currently my favorite thread. I am learning a tonne of information. Thanks to everyone who is taking the time to share their knowledge!

  150. #550
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    i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.

  151. #551
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    Wow that's cheap! I would guess that price is for the frame only, fork sold separately. That would put the price in line with other carbon frames direct from China.

  152. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.
    Wow, that's impressive! thanks for sharing. I suspect they'll sell a lot at that price - once the first person buys and proves the geometry/clearances.

  153. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i got email back from speeder cycling. the price for fat frames is $435 (not sure if fork included) and they are 30 days out.
    Thanks for sharing. Because I also have the price from the factory. And I now I know how they have the pricing. So the $435 is for the consumer price? Like if you buy just one, they can also offer this kind of pricing? That is so unreal.
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  154. #554
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    thats what i am thinking, he also confirmed that frames work with bluto.

  155. #555
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    Let's all remember what's happened with every other carbon frame that's shown up in this thread. Pos rep goes to the first person to show up in this thread with a frame on order and delivery confirmation.

  156. #556
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    Yeah, no kidding. Let's see a frame in hand.

  157. #557
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    I asked speeder cycling on facebook about the fat suspension fork with the reverse arch. They replied that it "is ourself design". They should be sending me more details via email soon. Stay tuned!

    Although I wonder what they mean by it being their own design. They are also selling 90mm rims that are the same as nextie rims. It's hard to imagine that a carbon factory (or reseller) would be able to design and build a fork. It seems more likely that they are merely selling an OEM design manufactured by another company.

  158. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.
    No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

    My blog.

  159. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.
    That first picture does look like the Corvus. The second does not.

  160. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by q2cyling View Post
    So the $435 is for the consumer price? Like if you buy just one, they can also offer this kind of pricing? That is so unreal.
    why would it be so unreal? as already mentioned, that price is on par with other Chinese carbon frames.

  161. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Yeah, no kidding. Let's see a frame in hand.
    wish the curvy one was available with 197mm spacing.

  162. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Looks just like the Fatback carbon frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    No way. Not even close visually. They may manufacture the frame though as they use the picture. I don't know.
    I'm seeing a slight resemblance here, not saying it is it or even the same geo but it does look close. This whole copying thing doesn't sit well with me but of coarse we haven't actually seen one purchased yet either.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon fatty-suspension.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon fatty-fatback-carbon-fat-bike-rims091613_1083.jpg  


  163. #563
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    It does look similar. The differences I see are that the fatback has a front derailed mount, rear brake mount on seat stay instead of chain stay, and curved instead of straight seat tube.

  164. #564
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    Speeder cycling replied that the fat suspension fork is $345 plus shipping and asked how many I wanted.

    Hmmm. Does this seem strange to anyone else? That a fat suspension fork exists but doesn't have a name, is offered for a really low price and only via email? The picture seems to prove that it exists. The mere existence of another fat suspension fork option should be a really big deal to the fat community. Yet there has been no marketing push.

    My best theory is that it is being shopped around to find a distribution partner who would then be able to brand it and do the marketing.

  165. #565
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    is anyone even considering a purchase? i have not heard of these guys before, but it is tempting. i asked them for more images

  166. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    why would it be so unreal? as already mentioned, that price is on par with other Chinese carbon frames.
    Man, Q2cycling is a Chinese seller as well, why he/ she said unreal is they don't sell frames at so low price, they are competitors. Speeder Cycling is a small trade company as well, the fat bike frames designs are not their own, LTK bikes owns the design absolutely, what frames SC sells are almost sold by LTK.

    Q2cycling likes a spammer

  167. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikrider View Post
    Man, Q2cycling is a Chinese seller as well, why he/ she said unreal is they don't sell frames at so low price, they are competitors. Speeder Cycling is a small trade company as well, the fat bike frames designs are not their own, LTK bikes owns the design absolutely, what frames SC sells are almost sold by LTK.

    Q2cycling likes a spammer
    Bikerider. So sad to see this. I don't know how you draw that kind of conclusion.
    1. The price they sell is really very low. So I just expressed my feeling that their price is so unreal. Because I know the cost and the quantity requirement stuff.
    2. How do you know that we are a seller but not a factory?
    Sometimes you need to look at things as a whole...

    It is pointless to argue about those stuff. See, that's what will happen. When a Chinese person trying to get involved in the forums, and people think they are spammer or something....
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  168. #568
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    I received the following prices from Speeder:

    F-FB01 frame and fork: $529 + $95 shipping to the US
    Carbon rimes: $325 + $80 shipping per pair

    Combined shipping for a frameset and rims would be $150.

    They are still "25-30 days" away from delivery (supposedly). I'm tempted to take a chance on a frame, but I can't find much information on Speeder Cycling, other than their website and Facebook page. I saw a post on another forum by a guy who bought one of their CX frames and he was pleased with the service and quality.

  169. #569
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    That's the lowest pricing on carbon fat rims and frameset I've ever seen. In the past i've been quoted really low numbers only to later find out that they had mistakenly given the bulk price. The pricing could be legit and I hope it is. We'll know for sure when someone actually takes delivery at that price.

  170. #570
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    here are images i received, not what i have asked for, but at least something larger than whats on the website.

    i am still puzzled with FB02 frame and rear spacing and why openings in dropouts are so large diam.




    post img


    how to do a screen shot

  171. #571
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    Wow, a grand for frame, fork and rims, that's impressive if true.

  172. #572
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    is $325 really for 2 rims? here is answer i got when i inquired about rim price: "the fat bike rim the price is US$325/pcs"
    i also mentioned rim similarity to the one Nextie sell, here is what he replied: "We do not work with Nextie, so i think the rim is not the same model."

  173. #573
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    Looks like a 12mm rear axle to me. Do you think the dropout holes look larger than 12mm?

  174. #574
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    The second pic is the frame without the "chips" installed, so the holes are there to accommodate whatever axle you need, the chips reduce it to the proper size (look at the first picture). The first picture appears to show the chips with a 142x12 through axle (my guess).

  175. #575
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    i thought this frame uses qr axle. getting confused here

  176. #576
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    There are very definitely chips installed on that frame, which would lead me to believe it is adjustable to either QR or through axle.

  177. #577
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    If the second picture is without chips, then it appears to not be standard QR compatible. That would normally mean that the dropouts have an open slot that sits on top of the QR hollow axle. Yet if that picture is of the frame without chips, it appears to require an axle inserted from the side.

    I too am confused.

  178. #578
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    i am looking at the second one, cant really see on inside of dropout where chips would screw in.

  179. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    If the second picture is without chips, then it appears to not be standard QR compatible.
    Ah I see what you're saying, hmm.

  180. #580
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    I just noticed those pictures are of two different frames, I know Captain Obvious.

  181. #581
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    Oh yeah, no chip on the second picture for sure... no derailer hanger mount. My guess is that the frame only accepts 197x12mm. Or perhaps the alleged 190x12mm that was discussed previously.

  182. #582
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    the description for that frame says 190mm spacing, the other one is 190/197

  183. #583
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    Man, I'm not sure I'd buy one without a lot more clarity about this rear end! Part of me says I would just buy one and figure it out when the frame got here, but I would probably wait for someone else to learn for me.

  184. #584
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    haha, exactly. thats why i asked him to email me detail image of just rear dropout but he just emailed overall image. i am more confident on FB01, but i do like looks of 02 better.

  185. #585
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    Thanks for sharing though, I'm not in the market, but I find it interesting.

  186. #586
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    Josh

  187. #587
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    Good find . Thanks for the info . Although I am a little concerned that the frame and forks are both 12mm and 15mm bolt through repectively yet the hubs suppiled are listed as M5 QR's ????


    Fat Biker

  188. #588
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    managed to get different view of fb02 frame, looks like the chips are replacable?
    or is it just one side? could that be? or just for hanger?


    images hosting

  189. #589
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    I was originally going to suggest that they would normally have chips on both sides, but I think you're right, this bike is made for through axle only and there is only a chip on the drive side for the hanger.

  190. #590
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    another piece of info on FB02 rear mystery. copied from the email i just received.

    "the frame take 12mm thru alex, we can make rear spacing in 190mm (because the frame mold design is 190mm)"

    so 12x190 through axle?

  191. #591
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    I say just buy a quality aluminum or steel frame and not even take the gamble with this stuff, obviously they don't have a friggen clue to what is going on.

  192. #592
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    I continue to believe the design is fine, but their "communication" folks just don't know what they are looking at or being told. Of course "I continue to believe" is meaningless as I would not put up the cash unless I knew for sure, which means I don't really believe.

  193. #593
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    the market needs more 190 hubs. we aren't sure if 150 will win the popular vote. to much uncertainty in the fatbike market. good thing we have all year to figure out what they want us to buy.

  194. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    the market needs more 190 hubs. we aren't sure if 150 will win the popular vote. to much uncertainty in the fatbike market. good thing we have all year to figure out what they want us to buy.
    150?
    Seems like it'll be more 170 vs 190.....170 for trail & 4" & below, 190 for snow & larger than 4"

    Edit...oh 150 front you mean?.....yep got it

  195. #595
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    Carbon Fatty BB Shell 120mm?

    I have not been on the forum for about a year or so..Work and being poor sucks. However, I am now in a position to order a carbon fatty to go with my carbon niner I built a year ago. I am ordering a bike from ICAN the SN01 which comes with a BSA 120mm shell, what crank and BB combo is good? I used to have a Pugs, 2009 addition and I believe that had 100mm shell, and Hausfelt cranks. I am not able to buy all the comp's right now just looking to get some idea of how much I am gonna spend to get it right. (hopefully before I send anybody money)
    DB

  196. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by davedivided View Post
    I have not been on the forum for about a year or so..Work and being poor sucks. However, I am now in a position to order a carbon fatty to go with my carbon niner I built a year ago. I am ordering a bike from ICAN the SN01 which comes with a BSA 120mm shell, what crank and BB combo is good? I used to have a Pugs, 2009 addition and I believe that had 100mm shell, and Hausfelt cranks. I am not able to buy all the comp's right now just looking to get some idea of how much I am gonna spend to get it right. (hopefully before I send anybody money)
    DB
    Link to where you are getting your bike from please!

  197. #597
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    I'm guessing it's this one:
    Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

    At least the rear spacing appears to be the normal 190qr/197ta configuration. Not sure if the fork is 135 or 150 spacing though.

  198. #598
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    It appears to be this bike: Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

    although I don't see a price or a way to put it in a shopping cart.

  199. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    I'm guessing it's this one:
    Fat bike 2014 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

    At least the rear spacing appears to be the normal 190qr/197ta configuration. Not sure if the fork is 135 or 150 spacing though.
    Thats the one.

    I will upload and image later if you would like.

  200. #600
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    how much for that frame?

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