Chinese Carbon fatty - Page 2- Mtbr.com
Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 400 of 4184
  1. #201
    Off the back...
    Reputation: pinkrobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,186
    Clint: rep sent. Definitely don't agree with beer comment, but you're right on the money with the rest!

  2. #202
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    86
    Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    407
    Just a question.....how many of you drive a Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota or a Suzuki? Not saying anything is right or wrong about it, but just trying to understand the logic of some of the responses. Please don't take it the wrong way. By the Way I have a Jeep, a Ford, and a Subaru. And I'm pretty ok with my logic on these companies.

    As for Bikes I have the following:
    Lynskey - Made in USA
    Surly Moonlander- Made in Taiwan
    Cannondale SuperSix- Made in China

    But this is what I understand about some of these companies.

    Some might be the same factory that manufacturers say Specialized stuff, or Cannondale, or whatever, however like say a steel fab plant here in the US. Specialized and Cannondale are basically customers of their Carbon Fab plant. So in essence they have their own RD people who may work on the US company stuff, but also develop their own stuff, and manufacture it when the orders are slow or fulfilled for their customers. They then kill the overhead by eliminating the middle man, and basically sell direct. Kinda like going to an Amish farm and buying their products be it a shed, or some shoe fly pie.

    So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.

    Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.

    For example, my first 29er was a Sette....Awesome Awesome Awesome bike, but ya know I wasn't quite sure I was going to like a 29er, and I wasn't willing to fork out twice the money for half the spec on a big name bike, that I may not even like. So I used Sette to light my desire to ride big wheels, and now as stated above I ride a Lynskey.

    I think that explains my view on it, basically these companies only open the door to the normal companies or smaller companies. We all want that super top end bike, but we need to build up to it.
    Climbing Builds Character

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation: alshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidthefridgeguy View Post
    Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.
    Are there prices and specs available?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  5. #205
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by vack View Post
    So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.

    Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.
    Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...

    Buy two of them at once. Then you have an instant replacement should something go wrong and you don't have to worry about shipping/dealing with the plant, etc. The cost of the second frame will be well below what you're paying all the middlemen if you order the premium-branded frame.

    The irony in a lot of bicycle discussions is that the only riders who truly need the bleeding edge of technology/weight savings/expensive features to be competitive never buy a bike themselves. For the rest of us mere mortals, the frame's major purpose is to keep all the parts on a bike in good spatial alignment. It's a rigid truss with a certain transfer function to incoming vibration and loads. Basic, basic basic engineered structure. The joke's on us that we pay so much money for such a simple item, most of the time.

  6. #206
    Puro Vida!
    Reputation: Nelson34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,303

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    I took a chance on a set of Light Bicycle rims for my Pivot-the customer service was great, shipping was fast and the product was good. I was a little worried at first, but if do business with them again. Im in for a frame.

  7. #207
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Subscribed Just because my birthday is in February

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    On a serious note would carbon become substantially more brittle in the sub zero temperatures these bikes are primarily designed to be used in (mud and sand excepted)

    I have had some seriously large rocks (circa house brick sized 3-5lb) bounce off my carbon On-One 456 in the summer and the frame just flexed and shrugged them off .

    Would this be the case with a frozen carbon frame ?

  9. #209
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    39
    Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.

    On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)

  10. #210
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,935
    Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.

    So: a proper epoxy exists.

    I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they actually are - something worth asking.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (officialy in 2016, functionally in 2020).

  11. #211
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...

    Buy two of them at once...
    Solution!

    In many ways modern bike production is very like it was in the UK from the 1900s to 1950s. There were a few big actual manufacturers who made almost all their own components (eg Raleigh compared to Giant now) and everyone else bought in all the parts and basically assembled their bikes and stuck their brand on it. Even handbuilt frames were built from the same components as the next brand, ie lugs bought in, tubes bought in.

    The general public bought from the big manufacturers. The sporting public usually bought from the individual brands where they could specify exactly what they wanted, but really their bikes were different in only very small details from those of another small brand. This is why there was such an obsession with hand carved lugs, or curly stays.

    Men like Jack Lauterwasser could build an all steel bike with common off the shelf parts that weighed 17 1/2lbs in 1930 - it was his removal of excess metal that made the difference. The difference these days is that small brands are mainly just assemblers of completely bought in bike parts with no actual engineering input. PR seems to be the main input now.

    It seems to me that what the Chinese C/F manufacturers bring to the table is the ability to engineer and manufacture the frames and what is contributed by the brand are really small details of design much like the 1900s to 1950s, ie most of the intellectual property of the frames is Chinese, and surely if there is any IP belonging to the importer it should be protected by being registered?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Any bike, anywhere, anytime.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  12. #212
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.
    D'oH ! Never thought of that side of things

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)
    Don't keep us in suspense Stuey what does it taste of ? Please tell us it's licorice ??????

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.

    So: a proper epoxy exists.

    I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they actually are - something worth asking.
    Thanks Drew now I don't feel quite soooo dumb LOL

  13. #213
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Projectnortheast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,228
    Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames!
    I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....

  14. #214
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    976
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames!
    I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....
    +1….same boat here

  15. #215
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OFFcourse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    A fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter
    I call BS!

  16. #216
    Off the back...
    Reputation: pinkrobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    +1….same boat here
    +2 Bust out the fatty when there's not enough snow for pow but too much to ride dirt...

  17. #217
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Projectnortheast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,228
    yeah, maybe I'll ride it more than I think.. but with the bikes I already have, I highly doubt it seeing the light of day other than in the snow...

  18. #218
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    +3
    totaly agree

  19. #219
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Projectnortheast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,228
    also, emailed peter from xmiplay and he did confirm again they are working on a fatty frame..

    Thanks for your inquiry!



    Yes, we are doing fatbike frame mould now, I think the sample will be available at the end of Jan 2014 or Feb 2014



    Best Regards,

    Peter

    I've also emailed him back if he has any info on geo, axle spacing an possible ball park pricing.. I also reached out to Nancy at Light-bicycle an she didn't seem to know. And just a side note as well.. as far as everyone saying you get what you pay for, customer service etc... I have to say these Chinese carbon people answer my emails faster than any US company I've bought a bike from, except for maybe ibis and intense. So the argument that you get no customer service is bull..

  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    i asked him same about 2 weeks ago. he would not give any details. but i agree, only bike company that answers your emails quicker is ibis. i also asked light bicycle and nextie on fat bike frame development, both responded that they will evaluate their plans for future products after new year.

  21. #221
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    407
    Seen a Carbon BG yesterday. As stated before, here is that seam that I had questions about. The same seam is on the downtube as well. Those of you more carbon savy than me should chime in.

    Climbing Builds Character

  22. #222
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,935
    vack it is possible that is a co-molded seam, and the front triangle can be thought of as two halves joined down the middle along the bike's length from a bird's eye view.

    Keep in mind that while I don't like the idea, I'm not an expert, and I have seen only one failure involving a frame that was constructed the same, a Trek Superfly. And it didn't break, the owner saw some slight delamination and stopped riding it, a repairable condition.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (officialy in 2016, functionally in 2020).

  23. #223
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    407
    Drew, I have no idea, but that makes sense.
    I have one Carbon Bike, a Cannondale SuperSix, and I was just out in the garage trying to find a seam....I could not. I'm not sure if that's because these BG's are raw and my Supersix is painted, I don't know.

    But I too seen a Superfly fail on the top tube, not mine but a friend, the tube near the seat tube turned to mush and it failed at that seam.
    Climbing Builds Character

  24. #224
    Off the back...
    Reputation: pinkrobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,186
    Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork

  25. #225
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juxtaposition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.

  26. #226
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikefat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    313
    If the Chinese frames are exactly the same as those imported by domestic companies, what then is a "knockoff" other than TM infringement regarding decals? I'm assuming the bike pictured came out of the same mold as the "legit" frames:

    Mike Sinyard?s Open Letter to the Industry

    Obviously, to me at least, there's some difference in process/materials/QA/QC depending on whom one sources a frame from. Also, to me, customer service isn't measured by how fast someone in sales responds to a purchase inquiry.
    Denver Broncos: 101-3 since 1975 when scoring 30+ at home.

    :thumbsup: C.J. Anderson career YPC = 5.67

  27. #227
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,317
    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.
    I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.

    If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.

  28. #228
    mtbr member
    Reputation: maddslacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.
    Fatback frames are made in the US .. not sure that fits the point you're trying to make.

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juxtaposition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.

    If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.
    Factory direct typically means you (the consumer) are buying directly from the factory or manufacturer. e.g. carbon rims from light-bicycles.com.

    Lamere is buying from the manufacturer, adding on his profit and reselling to the consumer. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not factory direct and the <del>$1800</del> $1400 price tag reflects that.

  30. #230
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Weinerts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Oh so many fond memories, my first BMX bike.
    Mine too! I had the red white and blur pro thunder 3.
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    103
    On the subject of carbon rims... I've heard light bicycle have some coming out at the end of Jan...

  32. #232
    GoCyco
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

    There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

    Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

    Get real.

    Brian
    And with more Fat bikes being sold, more & more components will follow (like suspension forks!)

  33. #233

  34. #234

  35. #235
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,211
    According to the description, these are black anodized alloy wheels.

    Edit: Looks to me like the same frame and fork Lamere Cycles is trying to sell for $1800.

  36. #236
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    278

    Re: Chinese Carbon fatty

    Looking forward to early adopter doing some testing. If it will fit 80mm rims with Lou in back I'll probably get a frame.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  37. #237
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    67

  38. #238
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    Very interesting...
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  39. #239
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    358
    Finally...but,

    they ship out in 60 days... so I don't think that are already available.

    Chris.

  40. #240
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    yeah, would wait until end of february. there should be more chinese fatbike frame options by then. even wheels.

  41. #241
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,187
    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Read the entire thread and kept hoping for some pics and links. Finally, after all the BS we have pay dirt. Can't wait to place my order.

    The one piece missing from the argument is that anyone can get on a plane, go to China, and start a CF manufacturing business. Go for it! But wait, why hasn't Trek or Cannondale or Spesh done so? Or have they? Is Giant "XM I Play"? Is Bontrager "Light Bicycle"...

    Economies of scale?

  43. #243
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    Some more info they just sent me. They look to have dirt cheap 65mm and 80mm complete carbon rims and also extremely cheap alloy 100mm complete rims. Oh my.


    Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame.




    1.)front fork 15mm thru axle QR, model QR325 15*142mm.
    2.)rear normal QR M10,model: AF711 M5*200mm.
    3.)rear 12mm thru axle QR
    4.)Rear 12mm dropout ,model fm-m010-end
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  44. #244
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juxtaposition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame.
    5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.

  46. #246
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    4
    If I a reading this correctly, frame and rims will be about 2kg.? Does that include the fork? What are we looking at for total bike weight.

    I really don't need another bike with my mukluk2 serving me quite well, but for a fun project this is starting to be interesting.

  47. #247
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    I don't think it's the graphics that make my Yampa handle better than my Fatback did, or maybe it is? It also fit's me better hmmmm, Why go hatin on other peoples rides?

    P.S. I had a 190 aluminum Fatback with carbon fork on order but with my local club discount and with no shipping fees my Yampa came to about $500 more than the Fatback. Don't get me wrong I am still a Fatback fanboy though but this was just a no brainier, oh and did I mention it was actually available.

  48. #248
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  49. #249
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,698
    Everyone has their own opinion. I think the borealis is the best looking fatbike out there…. I also think the fatbacks are hideous.

    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    Denver, CO

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
    pretty sure all 190s currently out are symmetrical. My 907 is. Looking to build a bike for my wife and the offset is definitely a deal breaker for me.
    Denver, CO

  51. #251
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    47
    Links above are showing no longer available or product page that no longer exists.

    Did they all sell, or get pulled for some other reason?

    Following thread with much interests. Love a bargain if it has value. Love supporting local manufacturing but honestly in bike frames and components the industry is in Asia already. Supporting big bike companies who design, import and market innovation is something I also like to do when innovation is real. IMO I have gotten tired of component line changes and complication with so little value except for hype, price increase and minimal improvement. I welcome some resetting of the value chain so engineers and marketing muscle can bring more value to products we buy. Having been riding bikes since cassettes were 5 cogs and campy was king I feel today's price to value ratio is too high.

    So fat bike evolution the next few years will be interesting to watch.

  52. #252
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juxtaposition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
    5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.

    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.

  53. #253
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    As someone mentioned earlier the bike is off the website now. Strange.
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  54. #254
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,211
    Ooops. Mistake. Move along.

  55. #255
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeterQ520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    82
    iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Last edited by PeterQ520; 01-15-2014 at 07:56 PM.

  56. #256
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    PeterQ520 - Do you have any info on the fatbike frame please ?

    Is the rear symetrical and what is the rear axle spacing please ?
    Will it be available in 100mm BSA english BB also ?

    Thanks

    Fat Biker

  57. #257
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.

    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.

    I Agree with this. And on another point, I love the look of the Yampa, Just sayin

  58. #258
    Supersonic Garfield
    Reputation: Trond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    565

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb. Here are weights of our carbon fat bike rims.

    Weight: 550g for FR-026-65 (65mm width)
    620g for FR-026-80 (80mm width)

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Do you have images of the carbon rims?

  59. #259
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.

    I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.

  60. #260
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.
    .
    The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.

    $800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.

  61. #261
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.

    $800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.
    Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out…

    carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle

    $449 is the price for the frame.

  62. #262
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.

    I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.
    ^ +1

  63. #263
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out…

    carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle

    $449 is the price for the frame.
    If you read the Threads LB has admiitted themselves that they are not a good supplier of bike frames. Their rep is solely based on rims.

    Here is the newest China HT, sub 900g:
    Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 250

  64. #264
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeterQ520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    82
    deleted
    Last edited by PeterQ520; 01-15-2014 at 07:53 PM.

  65. #265
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,271
    They look nice.

    I wonder who will be first to drill them
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Any bike, anywhere, anytime.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  66. #266
    Supersonic Garfield
    Reputation: Trond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    565
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.
    Thanks, looks great!

  67. #267
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    nice, like the little channel on both sides. nextie rims dont seem to have it. now i wish these were 90mm, but cant have everything i guess. what about the frame Peter? can we have a peek?

  68. #268
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OFFcourse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    919
    Yay 65mm FTW!

  69. #269
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,935
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    They look nice.

    I wonder who will be first to drill them
    Oh man.

    1) Don't!
    2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
    3) See (1)
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (officialy in 2016, functionally in 2020).

  70. #270
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Oh man.

    1) Don't!
    2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
    3) See (1)
    No danger of me doing it. I still haven't drilled any of my rims - I figure the amount of mud I would pick up on a ride would exceed the weight savings
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Any bike, anywhere, anytime.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  71. #271
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.
    I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?

  72. #272
    Team Captain
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,322
    Those 65mm rims are going to look good on a Troll or Instigator 2.0

  73. #273
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeterQ520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by FrY10cK View Post
    I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?
    We haven't listed these rims onto our website or Alibaba website yet, just to let you guys know we have these rims available to order now.

    After a few months we can will list these rims and frames onto our websites.

    BTW, Chinese New Year is coming, the fat bike frame will be delayed production time. we will have about 15 days holiday from Jan 26th.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520

  74. #274
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19
    Would have done better to 100mm!

  75. #275
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    I ordered a pair of the iPlay 80mm carbon rims and will report back with pictures. (And ride report once the rest of my carbon fatty bits arrive)

  76. #276
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19
    how much is 80mm?

  77. #277
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    deleted
    Last edited by brankulo; 01-16-2014 at 07:56 AM.

  78. #278
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    peter quoted me $240 a rim. i have not ordered yet though.
    To your front door? What about shipping and Paypal fees?

  79. #279
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19

    Sarma Naran 80

    Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80
    Compatible with tubeless
    Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world

  80. #280
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    rim only, shipping/paypal extra

  81. #281
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by Penetrator View Post
    Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80
    Compatible with tubeless
    Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world
    Please explain how when the Sarma rims are $830/pair at their cheapest ? And a similar weight ! I would imagine the iplay rims can be made tubeless also .


    Fat Biker

  82. #282
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    yeah almost double the price, iplay rims could be set tubeless too imho

  83. #283
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    just got email from peter with geometry of their new fat bike frame. will post it later if he doesnt beat me to it. he is also saying they will have another fat frame available in march.

  84. #284
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Oooo! I am interested in seeing the geometry. Perhaps I will order a frame from them in addition to the rims already ordered.

    Chinese new year is coming up though and we should expect much of China to be on extended holiday.

  85. #285
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    ...

  86. #286
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    [edit: removed details not yet ready to be made public]

    If the iPlay frame is 190mm spaced and actually available in the next few months, they'll have me as a customer for a frame as well as the rims I already ordered.

    Emailing the company reveals that the frame is nearly finished and more details should be available soon. I can't wait.
    Last edited by dfiler; 01-15-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  87. #287
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Would like to see shorter effective top tubes on the small frames 570-584mm.

  88. #288
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Deleted at the request of brankulo

    With help from dfiler

    Thanks


    Fat Biker
    Last edited by Fat Biker; 01-15-2014 at 01:08 PM.

  89. #289
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post


    Prospective price ?

    I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.

  90. #290
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?

  91. #291
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?
    Seems like in my experience 31.6 is becoming "the standard" most all my frames are 31.6 . But then I only have one Fatty (with a 31.6 100mm Reverb )


    Fat Biker

  92. #292
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Any ideas on the rear hub spacing at all ?

    Symmetrical/offset ?

    Fingers crossed for 190mm symmetrical

    Prospective price ?


    As much as I could see a certain company being PI**ED at this "clone" there are slight geo differences (but not by much)

    Any guesses as to which "other" carbon fat bike frame they have coming out in March might be a "copy" of hmmmnnnnn ?

    Fat Biker
    I removed the picture and post because it apparently wasn't ready for public consumption yet. More details will probably be provided within the next month.

    Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.

    Here is an interesting read on why many frames look similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis @ Dirt Works View Post
    I can answer that one. Seeing as how Salted Bikes is a brand owned by Dirt Works Australia (founded in 1994). We were the Australian distributor for Surly and Salsa from 2001 until very recently. What does this mean to you?

    Well, it means that we have some history. (though that's nothing even remotely like the long rich history of Pete, Greg and the rest of the Alaskan crew)

    We actually have some experience with assisting design and development on Taiwan product as well. In the past we worked with JoyTech/NovaTech on hub, freewheel and seal design and development.

    I guess I'm just making the point that we didn't just pop-up following the next fashion trend in bikes. We've been in the business of bikes since 1994 (well... considerably longer if you want to include time in bicycle retail) and around FATbikes (specifically) since 2005 when we brought our very first shipment of Pugsley frames into Australia. We've ridden FATbikes in Desert races (Simpson Desert Bike Challenge), 100klm marathons, 24 hour events and on everyday trails.

    But onto the frame.

    We have a relationship with a carbon framebuilder who makes a lot of different frames, for many many brands, that you probably know.

    They also happen to have a very nice 170mm frame that looks very similar to the 190mm frame. This 170mm frame is one that they have been working on for well over a year now. We had been following it's development and were about to place an order on it when the 190mm became an option. We may still order the 170mm frame (as well) as a) it's a little lighter and b) not everyone wants or needs 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims for trail riding.

    Anyway, the way it works is that they have a design that they have developed. They want to sell it around the world. And, just like the fork maker (they're friends actually), of the famous "fork of many names", they don't want to "build a brand and market it".

    They're happy to do what they do best. Manufacturer the actual product. So they look for partners that can do the marketing and sales side of things. People that have knowledge in their specific niche. Which is great since while we know a lot about geometry, features and ride quality, we're kinda' light-on when it comes to carbon frame manufacture.

    But, making a carbon frame isn't cheap. Moulds are bloody expensive. So carbon frame builders do things in two ways. OEM mould or OPEN mould.

    With an OEM mould; the brand on the side of the frame that comes out of the mould usually owns the tooling and design. They have invested a lot of money in their own tooling and so their design (and the risk) is theirs. (probably the most well known design like this is Ibis)

    Where it can get confusing is that sometimes an OEM mould may incorporate design elements from the carbon frame makers own designs. A good example of this is the flattened seatstays on our Sandfly frame. This design feature is used on many OPEN moulds by our frame maker. But it's also utilised on a large number of his OEM frames too. Clearly a lot of his OEM clients like the design and elect to use it on their own frames.

    An OPEN mould is where the frame maker has invested their own money into the tooling and are taking their own risk. To make the investment in an OPEN mould (and in multiple sizes) viable, the frame maker will make the frame available to multiple brands in different geographic locations. (USA, Australia, UK and so on) Typically, use of an OPEN mould, requires an order of 50-100 frames.

    I should probably point out, that our frames have their own OPEN moulds that are owned by the frame maker. And while they may look "similar" to others. They're not identical. The Sandfly for example, can run a triple chainring with 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims - other (similar looking) brands can not. We're also running with a 190mm x 12mm thu axle on the rear. Based on our experience with FAT wheels and custom wheelbuilding, we feel that it really locks the back end together much better that a std QR.

    ​So let's be clear about this ok. You will see the Sandfly frame, sooner or later (on an international site) with a different brand name on it. (I guarantee it, as I'm aware of some of the other brand partners in this around the world)

    Sorry to burst the balloon. But it's a fact.

    For more on the world of OEM moulds, OPEN moulds, (and everything in between) the guys at Switchback Bikes has it explained quite well here.


    Elvis.

  93. #293
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.
    Neither would I . Considering the IP-256 is running $600 - $620 .

    The IP-256 is T800 by all accounts rather than the more common and cheaper T700 , so that would increase the price somewhat I would have thought .

    But to $620 over $400-$450 seems a big jump IMHO .

    If it's T700 I would probably go as high as $550 but that would be my max . Maybe another $150 for a fork too




    Fat Biker

  94. #294
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    peter asked me not to make the geometry public, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say.
    excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.

  95. #295
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    Huh, I haven't really kept track on the seatpost thing, but 3/4 of the mountain bikes in my shed are 30.9 - that fourth one is 31.6 though. Its easy enough to shim a 30.9 post to 31.6 I suppose. I hate minor differences like that though - it really keeps the parts bin in my basement full of parts that no longer fit.

  96. #296
    Off the back...
    Reputation: pinkrobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,186
    Got a quasi-confirmation from Carolin at LB, 90mm carbon rim, ~630g, available for order at the end of January, assuming they can source hubs they will also build wheels on request. Cost TBD.

  97. #297
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    peter asked me not to make the geometry public, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say.
    excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.

    And the first thing you do is post it on a public forum ?

    The second is complain that someone has used your post (that you were asked not to post) to raise some questions ?


    Fat Biker

    P.S. FWIW I tried to remove it (4 times but no dice - sorry)

  98. #298
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    great, as i was more looking for 90mm and nextie 90mm rim looks little weird to me with drilling so centered. would still get peters frame though.

  99. #299
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    well i did but removed after he asked me to do so. there is still image that somebody else posted and removed quoted in another post

  100. #300
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.
    No insult to anyone intended by calling it a "clone" or a "copy"

    If I can buy part "x" from somewhere (e.g. China ) and it is substantially cheaper than my own country (or anywhere else) then my hard earned £'s are going to the whomever can provide me with the best bang per £ . My choice .

    If on the other hand someone wants to support their country / small business / local retailer and pay more . That's their choice .

    My way means I get to ride a "similar" product to Joe Bloggs (who paid top dollar) for a fraction of the cost .
    I can guarantee I will have a bigger smile on my face for longer . Cos what people don't seem to realise is the difference in a lot of products is not the quality but the stickers / decals that adorn them . The reason Joe Bloggs paid what he did is because he believes he is getting a better product . When in actual fact what he is getting is the same product , made in the same factory as mine was alongside his . The difference being the company Joe Bloggs bought his from charged him 2x - 4x (just an example) as much so they could still make a profit *when* his breaks and they have to replace it FOC or at "cost" .

    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy.
    You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?


    Chinese Carbon fatty-907carbonwhiteout.jpg




    fat Biker

  101. #301
    Living the thug life.
    Reputation: Logantri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	907carbonwhiteout.jpg 
Views:	1410 
Size:	74.7 KB 
ID:	862617




    fat Biker
    I really have no idea, however, WHEN the geo numbers were posted none of the numbers came up the same as the whiteout. Looked like it had a somewhat similar shaped top tube, but beyond that the geo numbers didn't match up.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

    My blog.

  102. #302
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    ...
    You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	907carbonwhiteout.jpg 
Views:	1410 
Size:	74.7 KB 
ID:	862617


    While there are similarities, there are only a handful of looks possible for a hard tail frame. Is it even possible to invent a hard tail frame that doesn't closely resemble other frames already on the market?

    Also note that there are differences. The chainstays are significantly different, meeting the dropout area above the axle. The rear brake is mounted on the chainstay instead of the seat stay. The seat tube is a different size. The head tube is taller. More bottom bracket drop. Longer top tube, etc.

    Granted, it is the dipped top tube that is visually distinct and similar. Yet if they hadn't made it dipped, what bike would it look like then?

    For comparison, there are many bikes out there with an almost identical curve in the top tube.
    Chinese Carbon fatty-mb_santacruz_blurtr_0.jpg

  103. #303
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    the curve on top tube is in fact quite different than the one on 907. the flow of the curve through the seat tube and onto seat stays looks better on ip157 aesthetically imho.

  104. #304
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    Anyone not know what the word "similarities" means ?

    Last I checked it never meant "exact" or "exactly the same as"

    If the IP-157 was decaled up or painted to look like a Whiteout you're telling me you'd be able to tell the difference without close scrutiny (looking at geo tables)

    Come on ?

    You're all entitled to your own views but in my book the Whiteout was the inspiration behind the IP-157 .
    Which is no bad thing I might add .
    Also please remember this was just a geo drawing and the finished item may look somewhat different in the flesh (changes could have been made before production) .

    Just my 2c


    Fat Biker

  105. #305
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    41
    So after quoting me USD 240 (or USD 300 shipped and paypal'd) for a 80mm carbon rim, Peter emailed me back and said the real price was actually $405.

    F*ck that!

  106. #306
    Supersonic Garfield
    Reputation: Trond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    565
    Not strange considering a 30mm rim from LB costs $165, a rim this size is almost 3x the material

  107. #307
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    41
    Pretty big change from the initial $240 quote though.

  108. #308
    Supersonic Garfield
    Reputation: Trond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    565
    Fully agree on that

  109. #309
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    That said, I doubt the cost of material drives this price point. I'm a bit disappointed, I thought it would come in lower (I was happy at $240).

  110. #310
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    yup, gotta wait what competition will show up with.

  111. #311
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Raw material cost is a bogus argument at best. From what I understand raw materials are pretty cheap in the carbon manufacturing process. It’s the process, equipment and expertise needed that drive the cost. I doubt the manufacturing process for the fat rims differs much from the regular mtb/road rims. Also fat bike rims probably use about as much material as wide road bike rims. Last I checked a 60mm clincher was $170 on LB.

    $240 was barely acceptable already but reneging to $405 is absurd and total bull shiitake. Thanks for posting that Cageracer. Chinese manufacturers like Peter need to know their place and be put in their place when they get greedy. When they jack up their prices as much as possible they will loose sales. There is only so much $ I am willing to risk dealing with a shady shifty Chinese manufacturer before I realize I am better off saving a bit more and going with the “real deal”. $400 for a carbon rim is out-of-line same as a $800 carbon frame. $600 for a frame set with fork, $1000 for a rolling chassis is the magic number for me. Any more than that I and I will start thinking twice.

    Looking forward to what LB has to offer…

  112. #312
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    ^+1

  113. #313
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    /\ +2

  114. #314
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post

    ... Chinese manufacturers like Peter need to know their place and be put in their place when they get greedy.
    Greedy? I have never seen an ethical, greedy business man. A little economics + marketing explains Peter's pricing strategy. It is a lot easier to lower price than it is to raise price!

  115. #315
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I should say I don't agree with everything (the comments about greed etc) in that post that I +2ed, but those prices are too high, IMO. I suppose the market will drive it to the proper price.

  116. #316
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Greedy? I have never seen an ethical, greedy business man. A little economics + marketing explains Peter's pricing strategy. It is a lot easier to lower price than it is to raise price!
    Hogwash! It makes much more sense to raise a products price once you have established that it is a good product, free from defects and worth the asking price. This is done over many/months years by real users not insider shills. Setting a ridiculously high price on a new product based on hype and perceived demand is risky and reckless at best. What “Peter” is doing here is shamelessly jumping on the fat bike hype wagon. He sees that there is a (over hyped) demand for the product and is pricing his product at the very limit of what he thinks people are willing to pay. Maybe he is just testing the waters and looking for a reaction. Well here it is.

    Its really very simple and you have to blind as a bat not to see it. The only reason people buy carbon parts directly from China is because they are CHEAP $. If they cease to be a smoking hot no-brainer good deal people wont buy them. As far as I am concerned no one is buying Chinese direct because of ethical business practices or good customer service. Though those are very nice to have and good luck selling something with bad customer service rep especially at those prices. Hence why these reviews are so important and why Chinese manufacturers are doing there best to spam the crap out of these threads.

    I am beginning to see a pattern here. Is there a reason why you are constantly defending over priced Chinese carbon?
    Last edited by AMjunky; 01-17-2014 at 09:36 AM.

  117. #317
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Why so angry?

    A company offers the lowest priced carbon fatbike rim on the market and you get pissed off at them for being too expensive? And you're also complaining about chinese carbon companies posting product info to a chinese carbon thread?

    I'd offer a counter argument but it doesn't seem like reasoned discussion is your goal.

  118. #318
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    come on, if you dont agree with people buying Chinese carbon dont read this thread. this was supposed to be about options and experiences with the product, for the people willing to buy Chinese carbon. if you want to discuss ethics and crap behind it, open another thread and title it properly, so ones not interested can skip it.
    thanks

  119. #319
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    come on, if you dont agree with people buying Chinese carbon dont read this thread. this was supposed to be about options and experiences with the product, for the people willing to buy Chinese carbon. if you want to discuss ethics and crap behind it, open another thread and title it properly, so ones not interested can skip it.
    thanks
    Huh? A little confused here. Who does not agree with people buying Chinese carbon, where was that ever under discussion?

    I think every one here (myself included) is interested in buying/selling Chinese carbon. The issue at hand is PRICE. An issue you seemed to agree with a few posts back. Yeah I understand online diplomacy and all that, personally I call em’ as I see em’.

    Dfiler, if you have counter argument to make, please do contribute…

    I think I have clearly outlined many valid points that most consumers will agree with.

  120. #320
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    not aimed at you, or last couple posts discussing pricig, i actually like your comments a lot. just the thread in general.

  121. #321
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AMjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    not aimed at you, or last couple posts discussing pricig, i actually like your comments a lot. just the thread in general.
    Ah no worries, anyways back on topic. Two fat bikes I test rode and loved but could not afford were the Salsa Beargrease and the Trek Farley. An affordable carbon frame with similar trail geometry to those and with rack mounts would be awesome.

  122. #322
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    the lowest priced carbon fatbike rim on the market
    Only just - the Naran Sarma is only a few dollars more. I know which I'd prefer.

  123. #323
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Ah no worries, anyways back on topic. Two fat bikes I test rode and loved but could not afford were the Salsa Beargrease and the Trek Farley. An affordable carbon frame with similar trail geometry to those and with rack mounts would be awesome.
    Yeah as this price is creeping up I am thinking about just getting what I really want, the salsa beargrease.

  124. #324
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    477
    +1 on the price issue .
    As it creeps up and up (for whatever reason) I am less and less likely to buy a carbon Chinese frame .
    At this moment I have the budget for a 29er Chinese carbon frame and a set of carbon Chinese 29er rims .
    A little more saving and I might have been able to get the carbon Chinese fat bike frame and forks instead or (hopefully) as well as . If it stays at $600 (???) .
    I would have liked the carbon Chinese fat rims too . At this moment though something is annoying me with the pricing structure that is being employed here . It feels like I (we - all of us showing interest) are being taken for suckers .
    That is not to say that I (we) am (are) definitely , just a feeling . And it doesn't sit well . So much so I too am thinking about buying a named frame (Beargrease) and calling it quits . I do like bang / $ but I ain't gonna be taken for a mug by some greedy sales person sat at the other side of a keyboard .
    I might be taken for a ride buying a named brand but it better damn well not *feel* like it .

    Rant over BOT sorry



    Fat Biker

  125. #325
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tincup69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    497
    I agree, if the price keep going up forget it. I will go ahead and pay a little more get the Beargrease.
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2019 Salsa Journeyman Apex 650B
    2014 Trek Fuel EX8

  126. #326
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cageracer View Post
    So after quoting me (or shipped and paypal'd) for a 80mm carbon rim, Peter emailed me back and said the real price was actually

    F*ck that!
    Sarma 430 usd free shiping

  127. #327
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    This just popped up recently.

    http://m.alibaba.com/product/1623857...fications.html

    I would pay $500 for the rims to arrive at my front door.

  128. #328
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty




  129. #329
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    86
    Cool looking bike. How does a consumer figure out details like what tire sizes it will take as well as price and shipping costs?

  130. #330
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    All right, we're getting close. I'm sure in the next month or so details will come in. I don't have much experience with Alibaba, but it seems its meant for dealers to buy larger quantities? Anyway, I'm sure we can't be too far from available product now.

  131. #331
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    Just to over analyze something from pictures - the bike is shown with 4.7 Snowshoe tires, which we know are really 4.0 tires. It doesn't look like there is much room in there, but it is pretty hard to see from those pictures. The description says a max tire of 4.7, but if they are using the Snowshoe to prove 4.7" fits, then they are using a bad ruler.

    It doesn't look like the rims on the bike are the rims lower down on the page, so its hard to figure that out.

    Speculate away...

  132. #332
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,313
    On those wheels they drilled through a double wall rim and then put a rim strip on the inner channel. So the void space will just fill with dirt or snow from the outside resulting in 20 pound wheels??
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  133. #333
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I have drilled double wall rims on my bike, I have ridden in wet and snowy conditions, I haven't had them fill up to any appreciable degree that I noticed. Maybe it happens and I don't notice, but I don't think so. I'm not saying drilling a double wall is a good idea, I'm just saying in practice I don't notice it as an issue.

  134. #334
    mtbr member
    Reputation: druidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    674
    Folk have been drilling double-wall Marges for years.

    Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk

  135. #335
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    I wouldn't pay $500 for the rims with the bike but the rims coming from Peter. Carbon Rims.

  136. #336
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I had heard about a guy locally who runs a bike shop sort of out of his garage - he only does custom builds, some of which he does with 29er Chinese carbon frames. I sent him an email asking about these fatty frames - he's really interested in working with me, but he has no experience with fat bikes. I'm going to work with him and see what we can come up with for a price. I understand his builds are extremely affordable, we'll see. If I decide to move forward I'll start a thread with my build.

  137. #337
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Just to over analyze something from pictures - the bike is shown with 4.7 Snowshoe tires, which we know are really 4.0 tires. It doesn't look like there is much room in there, but it is pretty hard to see from those pictures. The description says a max tire of 4.7, but if they are using the Snowshoe to prove 4.7" fits, then they are using a bad ruler.
    That is my impression too. Because of that, my guess is that the synergy sports FM010 frame has 170mm spacing. Even if the frame were to fit a true 4.7/4.8 tire, it doesn't look like the chainline would clear the tire when in the lowest gears.

  138. #338
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I sent a price inquiry via Alibaba (still don't fully understand that site) for that frame shown above.

    I got back an excel sheet, the pricing looks pretty incredible - the details are a bit hard to ascertain due to translation issues, but it looks like:

    Frame, headset, QR and fork for $650.

    Carbon 65 or 80mm rims on joytec hubs with sapim spokes for $560/pair
    Alloy 100mm rims on joytec hubs with sapim spokes for $259/pair

    Carbon 65 or 80mm rims are $230 each

    Frame details: 190mm spacing, but requires a 5mm offset(?) for chain clearance. Rear can be ordered with either a regular QR or 12mm through axle. Fork is 142 through axle. The text says: "We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame."

    There is a statement at the bottom of the quote that says "The prices quotation is available in 6 months." If its translated correctly I guess that means it will take 6 months for them to get you the frame, but I wonder if its supposed to mean the price is good for 6 months.

    I'll try to post up the quote once I can convert it to pdf on my other computer.

    edit - I got confirmation that the frames will be available in six months.

  139. #339
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    That makes me wish synergy sports had a customer contact person who was fluent in English. The specs mostly seem like what i am looking for but the offset 190 is baffling. My guess is that the FM010 is not available for another 6 months. If that's the case, it is likely that closer to the release date they will have better worded specs for public consumption.

    Are there any 142x15 hubs available yet? A 12mm through axle in the rear suggests it could be 197mm spacing with those dropouts. Either way, sourcing those hubs is somewhat difficult too. Getting one of these really new carbon frames really cuts down on the hub options. But overall, it still seems wise to build up a bike with through axles if possible.

    Edit: Just saw your edit about the frames indeed not being available for 6 months. The race is on! Can synergy sports or iplay get their fattie to market first?

  140. #340
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    here is the spreadsheet they sent me
    Attached Files Attached Files

  141. #341
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,211
    Do you guys make anything of Jish's price sheet where there is a tiny bit of picture with the words "Kenda/CST snowbike tire"? Doesn't really look like a fat tire, but the placing below the fat wheels made me wonder.

  142. #342
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I am ignoring everything below the rims in that spreadsheet - but it does show the lack of knowledge about fat bikes they are bringing to the table. Perhaps its a naive way to look at it, but I figure if they can build a 29er frame they can build a fat bike frame. I can take care of the rest of it (tubes, tires, cranks etc) as long as I get good information and the frame is sound.

  143. #343
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Penetrator View Post
    Sarma 430 usd free shiping
    Sarma site says:

    Recommended tire pressure: min 10-15 PSI
    Max rider weight limit: 110 kg
    Max Spoke Tension: 100 kgf
    -----------
    Seems like many riders would want to go below 10 psi. And 100 kgf spoke tension is lower than the limit I've seen for other chinese carbon rims e.g. Light Bicycle.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  144. #344
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    Just emailed the seller about frame geo and choice of carbon finishes. Very interested in building this into a SS fatbike with the 12 x 142 rear and 15mm front carbon fork. Also asked about shipping time but don't expect to get a straight answer on that one. Looking to put together a sub 24 lb fatty this year!
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  145. #345
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    Definitely post up what you hear back, I'm very interested in going down this road too, though I'm aiming for 26lbs and 1x10 geared.

  146. #346
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    lol, NH Mtbiker… That's exactly what i want to build up too, a through axle super light carbon SS fatty.

    Let us know what you find out. My guess is that it will be at least 3 months. I would love to be surprised though. Whichever company offers a frame at a decent price first, gets my money.

  147. #347
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    With the 2014 Chinese New Year falling on Jan 31st and the Spring Lantern Festival on February 14th, all those carbon factories in China are sitting dormant for over another week.

    Think of all the poor mountain bikers world wide that are waiting for their factory direct carbon goods!

    Allegedly my Iplay 80mm rims will ship out sometime after that multi-week holiday. This waiting is torturous. We keep getting slammed by snow storm after snow storm and here I sit without a fat bike.

  148. #348
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    How much did you pay for the rims? and is the frame available?

  149. #349
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    The Iplay FR-026-80 rims will likely be selling for $405 each. Don't quote me on that though. I think I got the order placed before they were ready to go public with all the details. I'll be sure to post again as soon as there is anything new to report.

    The frames aren't ready yet either. The rims should be out soon followed by frames. My guess is another month or two or three for fat frames.

    That's a tough balance for any company to manage, especially when dealing with customers of a different culture. It is desirable to perk people's interest with advance details ahead of product availability. But release info too soon and there is the risk of customers being turned off by what are perceived as delays or changed specs.

  150. #350
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    I received the geometry numbers for the Synergy Sports frame and fork. They sent over specs for sizes 15,17,19 & 21 inch. The A to C on the included carbon fork is at 468mm. Model # FM-M010-19"

    Other details on the 19" frame include 70 d head angle and 73 d seat tube angle. Top tube is 597mm, chainstay is 467mm, seat is 483. Just to give some idea of what the L frame is spec'd at with the 190mm rear hub spacing. Also important is the rear tire spacing between the stays is at 118mm. The carbon fork also has 118mm wide tire spacing and vertical tire spacing of 382mm - or about 15 inches.
    Looks good!
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  151. #351
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    That top tube seems pretty short for a Large - can you post the other sizes (picture or whatever)? Not doubting you, but I wanted to see what the other sizes look like.

  152. #352
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Is that 190mm spacing with quick release? Most 12mm 190mm setups are actually 197mm in order to allow 3.5mm collars on each side that align the wheel during installation. To me that suggests a quick release rear dropout.

    Also, will 118mm wide tire clearance fit a bud/lou on 100mm rims?

    Edit: I pulled up a google-cached web page for the synergy sports FM010.

    It says "Both QR & AXEL rear" which makes sense because it is pictured with replaceable dropout chips.
    Bottom bracket is listed as "BSA,PF30"
    It is pictured with 100mm and what appear to be vee snowshoe 4.7 tires. There is a bit of extra clearance but bud-n-lou tires are bigger than the snowshoes.

  153. #353
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    According to this thread, a Bud and Lou will not fit (115 width on a 100mm rim). Well it will fit, but 3mm is not much clearance.

  154. #354
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    An 85mm rim would be good for this frame with the 4.7 - 4.9 inches of clearance currently shown. Borealis has a real nice carbon wheel for deep pockets at $1600/set or $1999 per complete wheelset with Borealis FH1 hubs, double butted spokes, and colored alloy nipples. Would like to see an alumn version for the rest of us. Any thoughts or ideas for this frame and rim/tire size?
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  155. #355
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    That top tube seems pretty short for a Large - can you post the other sizes (picture or whatever)? Not doubting you, but I wanted to see what the other sizes look like.
    Sorry, I did mis-read the spec on the top tube. The 19 in frame has 622mm top tube. The files are too large to download here so you may want to contact Synergy for your own reference.
    Email: [email protected]
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  156. #356
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    It also appears that the frame may have more than 118mm of clearance and that number is in reference to the tire they have spec'd on the frame for geometry drawings. It looks like there might be 2-3mm of additional space between the 118mm number given. Overall, this frame looks to be very close in geometry to the Borealis Yampa carbon size Large.
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  157. #357
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet

  158. #358
    Live Free & Ride
    Reputation: NH Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,534
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet
    Right on!
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  159. #359
    dvn
    dvn is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dvn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Very cool. I await the ability to lighten my wallet
    Ditto!
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  160. #360
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty


  161. #361
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    That is a beautiful frame, but it is also $2,200! I'm hoping the direct frames are a lot cheaper than that!

  162. #362
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    where are all the fat Chinese goodies?

  163. #363
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    594
    Yup, you just convinced me to cancel my recent online order. I'll spend $150 more to buy the same drivetrain from my LBS. They provide enough schwag for our fat bike races and stuff to raise funds for our IMBA club. Never seen anything donated by PricePoint or Jenson. Not even going to negotiate with internet prices.

  164. #364
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,811
    We did have Competitive Cyclest give us a good size grant last year. Surprised us too especially the jack hole who was pissed cuz I bought a niner frame from them a few months before only because I couldn't get it local. Otherwise I usually shop local.

  165. #365
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post


    hello,
    Do you have a link?

  166. #366
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaubert S&#233;bastien View Post
    hello,
    Do you have a link?
    They keep taking it down so I posted the pictures manually.

    Best thing to do is search Alibaba and see if it is back up.

  167. #367
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Testmule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    126
    Not sure where this thread is going, and I'm getting in on the tail end.

    i have worked with pricing out product with Chinese suppliers and the prices they give don't usually reflect on the true price of a factory FOB order. It is common for suppliers in China to only take large orders which is usually a shipping container which will be X number of frames.

    So I think when and if this product ends up in North America it will be a much different price than you might get from a Alibaba quote.

  168. #368
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    looks like we officially have first rim out. nextie is taking pre-orders.

  169. #369
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    I pre-ordered from synergy sports many weeks ago. Granted, that wasn't officially official.

    Pre-orders would be my definition of officially not out.

  170. #370
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    i see.

  171. #371
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    469

  172. #372
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1
    Great ... Now ... How do you get one?

  173. #373
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    It looks like you can order them by the container, you just have to figure out what to do with the other 349 frames in the container. I think we're still 2-3 months out from these being available by the frame rather than by the container.

  174. #374
    dvn
    dvn is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dvn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    711
    Where the heck do you get a 120mm bottom bracket and crankset?
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  175. #375
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    That and the 5mm offset on the 190mm rear wheel (in the original Synergy frame) gave me pause. I bought a Specialized Fatboy, so I won't be buying a carbon frame, but I'm following this thread, I'm interested in where this goes and to see some of these frames (eventually) built up.

    I also saw something that said that someone bought the molds and no frames were available, but I have no idea who's mold someone bought and what impact that might have.

    For the record the Fatboy is an amazing bike, so happy to have that in the shed, I've had so many great rides this winter.

  176. #376
    Tor
    Tor is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by dvn View Post
    Where the heck do you get a 120mm bottom bracket and crankset?
    I guess it's because it's a pressfit bottom bracket. Salsa f.ex has 41 x 121mm on their website.

  177. #377

  178. #378
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I'd really like to see an actual picture of the frame instead of a rendering.

  179. #379
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    The dropout chips for 12 thru axles appear to have the inset channel for 197mm spacing. Strange that it is listed as 12x190mm.

  180. #380
    mtbr member
    Reputation: alshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,599
    Still hoping to see one of these emerge in someone's hands- after a review or two, then I might jump on board...
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  181. #381
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    519
    I thought the eagle had landed but looks like a seller preying on foolish buyers. check it out.

    Disc Brake Fat Bike 16 inch 29er MTB Carbon Frame Oversize BB92 Tarpered Headset | eBay

  182. #382
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    254
    Any report on how well the invisible disc brakes work? If a brake is applied in the forest and no one can see it, does it squeal like a pig?

  183. #383
    squish, squish in da fish
    Reputation: fishwrinkle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,686
    I'm lost on what is trying to be portrayed here. That looks to be a 29er and I would never buy that frame just because of the rear caliper mount. Every time you want to take the rear wheel off you need to loosen/remove caliper. Gen 2 nimble 9's came this way then the bros sent everyone new do's

  184. #384
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    268
    Why do you have to remove the caliper? My Cannondale has a rear caliper like this and I think it looks clean.

    Name:  cu_bb_u8_gears.jpg
Views: 1926
Size:  61.9 KB

  185. #385
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    I'm lost on what is trying to be portrayed here. That looks to be a 29er and I would never buy that frame just because of the rear caliper mount. Every time you want to take the rear wheel off you need to loosen/remove caliper. Gen 2 nimble 9's came this way then the bros sent everyone new do's
    I have one of the gen 2 nimble 9. The problem wasn't because the caliper was mounted near the chainstay rather than seatstay. Instead the problem was that the dropout slots were forward slanting rather than vertical. If they had been vertical, everything would have worked out fine.

    In my opinion, all rear calipers should be mounted there rather than on the seatstay. It is infinitesimally lighter, shorter cable/hydro, cleaner looking, less interference with racks and most importantly, less prone to damage when crashing into or off of piles of stumps and logs.

    I look forward to buying one of these frames (perhaps from synergy sports) with a chainstay mounted brake caliper.

    Edit:

    A bit more clarification on the N9 v2 dropout problem. The reason they moved the caliper location rather than fixing the real problem, which were the dropouts' non-vertical axle slots, was that simply moving the caliper location required sending out only one replacement part rather than two. Fixing the axle slots would have required replacing both the drive side and brake side droupouts. Moving the caliper location required only sending out replacements for the brake side dropout.

    Or at least that is what seems likely to have been their justification to me. I don't actually have any inside info.

    Looking at the pictures for the fatbike from Shenzhen Featbike Sport Equipment Co., Ltd. (http://feat-bikes.en.alibaba.com/pro...Thru_Axle.html)
    It seems like they may have made that same mistake. The caliper mount is on the chainstay but the dropouts for a 197mmx12mm axle are forward facing. Perhaps the angle is small enough that it won't be a problem though.
    Last edited by dfiler; 03-12-2014 at 05:14 AM.

  186. #386
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    519
    honestly i didnt pay much attention to where the disk brake caliper was. I paid attention to this being called a fat bike frame and a 29er at the same time leaving some poor sob that dont know any better buying the thing thinking he was getting something that going have clearance for fat tires.

  187. #387
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    254
    That location is where Scott Scales have the brake. It allows for a thinner seat stay.

    Sent from my S2 using Tapatalk and CM 10.2

  188. #388
    squish, squish in da fish
    Reputation: fishwrinkle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,686
    sorry i stand corrected

  189. #389
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    With the 2014 Chinese New Year falling on Jan 31st and the Spring Lantern Festival on February 14th, all those carbon factories in China are sitting dormant for over another week.

    Think of all the poor mountain bikers world wide that are waiting for their factory direct carbon goods!

    Allegedly my Iplay 80mm rims will ship out sometime after that multi-week holiday. This waiting is torturous. We keep getting slammed by snow storm after snow storm and here I sit without a fat bike.
    Email from xmiplay this morning says that the 80mm rims, mentioned earlier in this thread, will not be available after all. This is because "a customer from the US signed a contract with our factory for the 80mm rims, we can not sell the 80mm rims to any other customer from the US any more". Hopefully my refund is not a hassle.

  190. #390
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    do we know of anyone actually developing fat bike frame at this point? xmiplay has been very careful in their replies lately.

  191. #391
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    I am so glad I got the Fatboy, this would be driving me crazy. I heard something about someone buying the frame molds, (not the rim molds mentioned here) but I was never sure if that was directly related to these guys or who.

  192. #392
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,647
    yeah, i am pretty close to pulling trigger on el gordo frame. even though i dont need fat bike until next winter, i am getting pretty unpatient

  193. #393
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,811
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    yeah, i am pretty close to pulling trigger on el gordo frame. even though i dont need fat bike until next winter, i am getting pretty unpatient
    I say if you know that is the frame for you get it now if you can, next fall who knows if it will be available.

  194. #394
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Yep, a younger me would have been flipping out with impatience right about now.

    But from the start I resigned myself to waiting for the next gen of everything to come out. This means waiting for cheap carbon rims and frame, tapered headtube, a 15mm thru-axle fork and a 197x12mm rear with enough room for 4.7" tires on 100mm rims. It'll be the slowest build ever but I can wait.

    Normally I'm content with whatever is currently available. You could always be waiting for that next development. But with the fat market evolving so quickly, it seems like this year is one that will see a lot of future-proof products come out. We still aren't there on fat forks, but a suspension corrected frame with a tapered steer tube and thru-axle wheelset will do for now. That at least will make it easy and cheap to add a suspension fork a couple years from now.

  195. #395
    Loser
    Reputation: Jisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,535
    That's exactly what I was thinking dfiler, I will probably feel a few twinges of envy when I see people starting to build them up, but I'll live :-D

  196. #396
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    31
    They can't be far away now....

    Salted bikes has some updates on their facebook page, and I seem to recall them mentioning that their frame is an open mould leaving the door open for 3rd parties to offer the frames for sale.

    https://www.facebook.com/SaltedBikes

  197. #397
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by mjb123 View Post
    They can't be far away now....

    Salted bikes has some updates on their facebook page, and I seem to recall them mentioning that their frame is an open mould leaving the door open for 3rd parties to offer the frames for sale.

    https://www.facebook.com/SaltedBikes
    yes and no.

    The Salted frame design is a mould that is owned by our agent in Taiwan and the two brands that have placed their initial orders. (100+ frames each). It will be used by Salted Bikes and one other brand (currently).


    Elvis.

  198. #398
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    83

  199. #399
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    86
    No real description of what we would want to know in terms of details on the frame.
    I wonder what hub it takes and what size tires it can handle? I would be much happier to see this marketed as a package with carbon rims as well. Interesting though.

  200. #400
    squish, squish in da fish
    Reputation: fishwrinkle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,686
    raid, you beat me to the punch. can you say grey area(s)? would be nice if they did release it with 100mm carbon rims

Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Sette Razzo Carbon vs Chinese Direct Carbon
    By bank5 in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-28-2015, 12:07 PM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-31-2013, 05:17 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-11-2012, 10:10 PM
  4. Chinese Carbon FS vs GT Zaskar 100 9er Carbon
    By Perfect Gentleman in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-08-2012, 06:45 AM
  5. not just a chinese carbon frame, but 90% chinese!
    By menusk in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-22-2011, 01:53 PM

Members who have read this thread: 124

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.