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  1. #401
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    Okay guys, I have one more question and then I think I'm ready to rock. You've all been very helpful, and I'm very appreciative of all the info you guys have given me.

    Reading the service manual and watching a few videos, I'm still a bit unclear on adding oil to the lowers after reassembling the fork. The RockShox manual says to angle the fitting of your syringe so that the fluid will only contact the inside of the lower legs. I'm assuming this basically means don't get fluid inside the air shaft or damper shaft correct? Basically turn the nozzle so that the oil goes into the fork leg but doesn't shoot or splash into either shaft, then push the lowers up until you can thread the bottom bolts in correct?

    Thanks again so much guys. Bike gets here tomorrow so I'll be hitting the shop tomorrow night after work.

  2. #402
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    If you're talking about the 5 ml of oil then no. You should have the fork back together and ready to screw the bolts back into the very bottoms of each leg. Before you do that, put 5 mls of oil into the holes the bolts thread into. That's why you need to tip the fork past level so the oil won't come back out. Screw in the bolts and you're done. Make sure you get the rebound bolt on the correct side.

  3. #403
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    Ok, just reread your post. Pull the upper fork up just enough so you can get the oil in and then push them back down so you can install the bolts.

  4. #404
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    So the oil does go into the holes they thread into (inside the shafts?)

    And yes I am talking about the 5ml in the lower fork legs.

  5. #405
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    No oil inside the shafts.

  6. #406
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    That's what I needed to know, thanks.

  7. #407
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    Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.
    You effectively made 6wt oil (5.9433), might slightly increase the dampening but I doubt you would notice.
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  9. #409
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    Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?


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  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?


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    Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.

  11. #411
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    Paochow, thanks! That makes me feel much better, I'll leave it alone.

    So basically I'm done with the rebuild side of it. I slick honey'd the air side and swapped the oil in the oil side. Everything went swimmingly other than knocking the oil over.

    I pumped the fork up to 135 psi for my 200 lbs and even though I don't have it mounted on the bike yet, it feels incredibly stiff. I guess it is only supposed to sag 10-20% with my weight on it though which is about what I'm getting if I press on it (not on the bike yet, just clipped into the block that goes on the axle that the fork comes with).

    When I tried to put the lowers on the first time, the air shaft was pulled up in the leg and I couldn't get it to come down until I unscrewed the cap on the top of the leg and pulled it down with the cap and tokens out of the leg. Normal?

    Also, when I move the compression knob, there's 6 indents for the knob when you remove it, but with the knob on 5 of the settings feel solid and the 6th (last) one doesn't feel as solid as the rest.

    Other than that it was a lot easier than I thought it'd be. I worry about scratching either of the shafts, but don't recall dinging either one with any tools.

    Thanks for answering all my questions. You guys have been awesome.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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    yes, that's really the answer.

    There should be a somewhat gradual increase in compression damping ("stiffness") on the fork as you turn the knob towards the lock position. If it's not behaving quite that way, fluid levels are probably not exactly where they need to be.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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    From my experience, yes. Full travel will push the red indicator o-ring all the way to the top.

  15. #415
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    Gotcha, thanks. I'm 200lbs with gear. I went to three tokens, 6 clicks from slow rebound and 115 psi before quickly unscrewing the pump. Was much better and I have about 1 cm of travel that hasn't been touched after my ride where I tried to jump anything I dared and down/up some valleys. I'll leave as is I think. When I get it serviced I'll talk to the LBS about changing fluids.
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  16. #416
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    2 quick questions for you guys:

    Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though. I was bunny just to get a feel for the fork (my yard is flat). I've heard you don't want to ride too much of the rough stuff locked out because it can damage the seals in the fork, I'm assuming a couple of bunny hops are okay though?

    Also, is the fork supposed to be silent when traveling or is it normal to hear it kind of 'whoosh' as it travels? (not loud, but definitely there).

    Thanks!

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    2 quick questions for you guys:

    Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though.

    Also, is the fork supposed to be silent when traveling or is it normal to hear it kind of 'whoosh' as it travels? (not loud, but definitely there).

    Thanks!
    THe lockout is not a true lockout and you will get movement. As far as noise mine is pretty quiet.

  18. #418
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    Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.

    And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?

    Edit: Just went out and checked and the fork is silent if I just hold the brakes and push on it. If I bunny hop it, there's a little noise as it rebounds when I pull up on the bars but that's all. Hard to explain though.

    Sorry for the newbness.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.

    And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?
    The lock out is designed to blow off on a drop or big bump to prevent damage to the fork.

    The noise.. is this your first air fork?
    All my air forks make a noise, like a squish noise.

  20. #420
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    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.
    I'm about 170 running 3 and it sounds like I ride about the same as you and I might be taking one out. Even on the biggest hits I'm not getting full full travel but I also run a fairly firm air pressure. If I were you I would just try it first. Maybe RS will smarten up and send and extra one or two like they do with the Pikes.

  22. #422
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    Thanks bOb... I think it'll be just right right then. I weigh 145 lbs, maybe 150 geared up.
    How bout the rct3? Can one fine tune the compression in each of the modes?

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.
    I am about 185 or so fully geared up and I WAS running 3 tokens with the RL damper. After I swapped to the RCT3 damper and changed out the grease to Slick Honey, I noticed a pretty major adjustment in air pressures. At that point, the additional progressiveness from using 3 tokens wasn't resulting in full travel use (I was using full travel on bigger hits with 3 tokens on the RL damper). So I pulled a token, and I'm back to 2.

    With that said, I haven't had much time to ride it since I did that. It's been incredibly wet this month, so my riding is way down. Hoping to fix that this weekend.

    As for the settings, my understanding of the RCT3 damper is that the Low Speed Compression knob functions independently of the main adjustment knob.

  24. #424
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    I rode dh on my mutz with the 120 bluto this weekend. 3 tokens 75psi at 180 lbs. It was working pretty well bottoming only on big hits, until something started leaking air. Rebuild kit on the way....

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  25. #425
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    Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token?

    I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides.

    BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token?

    I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides.

    BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.
    I run mine with three tokens and about 95 psi. Use all my travel and never felt a harsh bottom out.

  27. #427
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    My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. I thought it would break in or something. It has seen only a little hard riding, but it has seen lots of mud and water. Thoughts?

    I have a 2008 RS Recon on another bike. I think the oil might be just a little low as there is no resistance in the first 3-5mm of travel. Despite being undamped in that first fraction of travel, it seems to result in improved small bump absorption, which is noticeable on high-speed chatter. Does anyone do this on purpose? Leave the damping oil a little short? (at least that's what I think is going on in the Recon). It might be cool to try in the Bluto.

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  28. #428
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    Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?

  29. #429
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    I can PayPal couple of $$ if needed. Thanks.

  30. #430
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    Which Bluto?

    I'm about ready to swap the stock rigid fork out of my 2015 Farley 6 for a Bluto but undecided which one. I can get either the RL that seems to come with most suspension fatties or the RCT3 version. The RCT3 is about £100 more.

    Is the performance of the RCT3 that much better, or would the RL suit. I'm not a particularly aggressive rider and am about 135lbs in weight.

    Also would fitting a 120mm affect the geo much, I think the Farley 6 is corrected for a 100mm fork.

    As a comparison I run a 160mm Pike RCT3 on my regular bike

    Thanks for any input

  31. #431
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    Get the rct3. I have a revelation that I upgraded from rl to rct3 and it's a huge improvement. I'm probably going to go the same route on my bluto soon

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  32. #432
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    ^^ Thanks

    The Pike on my regular bike is the first Rockshox fork I've used for many years so have little to compare it to. Previous years I'd always run Marzocchi forks.
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  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?
    Any extra tokens laying around getting dusty anyone?

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. ...
    -F
    I had put oil on the stanchions and left it sit over night with no improvement, but it has finally soaked in and smoothed out quite a bit.

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  35. #435
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    Ah hell, just posted a thread. Cliffs are that I put a 120mm bluto on my XL frame Fatboy and...well I hate the geometry now. Tried flipping the stem and dropping a spacer and just ended up pissed off halfway through my ride from having to dab every 3 minutes.

    Do I just need to get used to it, or should I go with the factory geometry consistent 80mm?

  36. #436
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    80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.

    What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?

  37. #437
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    my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -

    that thread is here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/blu...nt-981480.html

    My question is this - would an rct3 conversion have any risk of same issue? I don't know the internals of rct3 and have yet to read up on it.

    Stock bluto (actually stock bluto seals) are reportedly at risk for this, so borealis/turnagain offers a kit for colder temp operation.

    Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM

    I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.

    Sorry if this is a repeat question/issue

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.

    What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?
    All of it. I just feel like I can't control the bike anymore even on mild chunk either unless it was going down hill, and had to basically dab constantly to the point I had no fun and just went home on the second ride.

  39. #439
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    Question/Comparison regarding the pressures for the Bluto. I'm currently running at 135 psi on the 100mm at about 190 pounds with a full backpack. Usually at 12psi on nates for the summer.

    Reading most of the Bluto threads this seems on the high side compared to what most people are running. The thing is anything lower makes me worry about bottoming out. My regular trails don't have any huge drops, but I do tend to barrel down the trail hitting small jumps ,and riding aggressively down rocks and roots. My O ring is usually close to max travel at the end of a ride.

    I really like the feel of the fork at 120 psi, but am I simply out of luck? Sometimes I worry bottoming out at 135 psi if I ever have to pass a bit bigger drop. I've only bottomed out twice.Once at 125 psi during regular trail use, and once at 135 psi involving a large foliage covered hole bringing me to an sudden abrupt stop.

    I don't want to have to go higher then 135psi.

  40. #440
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    ^^bottemless token


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  41. #441
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    Or a failed Damper...

    Quote Originally Posted by h16 View Post
    my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -

    that thread is here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/blu...nt-981480.html

    My question is this - would an rct3 conversion have any risk of same issue? I don't know the internals of rct3 and have yet to read up on it.

    Stock bluto (actually stock bluto seals) are reportedly at risk for this, so borealis/turnagain offers a kit for colder temp operation.

    Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM

    I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.

    Sorry if this is a repeat question/issue

  42. #442
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    So, the Bluto, I have had three: 80mm, 100mm, 120mm.

    One had a failed damper in two weeks.

    Another is not holding air.

    The only one that appears to still be working is the one I sold to a buddy.

    THEY ALL HAVE STICTION!

    Two have been rebuilt and the stiction remains.

    Once a better fork comes out, the Bluto should be relegated to BD's.

    I bought a Risse Trixxy ($800) for my Fat Tandem, it's burly, it's heavy, but it will also blow away a Bluto!

  43. #443
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    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.
    Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.


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    So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)

    The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemoeze View Post
    Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.


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    It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.

    Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.

    New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)

    The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.
    What I understand is that the neg chamber is auto filled by the pos chamber, by the firts time the shock compresses.

    So, in short, the o-rings leaks to much air to the negative airchambers?

    That's bad :-( sorry i let you order those tokens then.


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  48. #448
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    Nah, I'll probably end up putting in a third token anyways. Will let me hit a better balance between pressure, and ramp. Thanks for the suggestion though!

  49. #449
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    I'll update the above as it may be useful to someone else. I pulled the lowers today and removed the compression and rebound dampers. What I found was a broken chunk of washer that had become lodged between the damper shaft and the inner oring of the seal head. This let all the oil drain into the lower, causing the hydro lock. The offending washer is the thin one on top of the rebound damper:



    I replaced the outer oring with a slightly undersized one I had lying about the house. Slapped 106ml of Mobil 1 ATF in there in lieu of fork oil, and some 75wt synthetic in the lowers. Reassembled, and everything seems to be holding. Fork is smooth, but I don't think the rebound damper is working ATM, since the broken washer exposes an open passage in the damper head. If I replaced the washer, I should be golden.
    I run my rebound damping at the minimum(fastest) setting anyhow, so it's really not a huge adjustment for me. FWIW. YMMV.

  50. #450
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    Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.

    Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?

    Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....

    https://vid.me/BL1K

    Bluto Tuning Thread-image.jpg

  51. #451
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    I don't think the damping in the bluto is at all great, but I'd guess that any 100mm fork would blow through its travel on a drop like that.


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  52. #452
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    Failed damper.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.

  53. #453
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    Yup, hydraulic lock, tends to be progressive, you will find yourself gradually reducing air pressure to adjust for decreasing sag, then one day you'll notice you are no longer using all of your suspension.

    I'm sure it could happen on the air side also, but it would not create a loss of travel as significant as a damper failure. Not to mention, if you have air leakage, you got a bad seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.

    Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.

    New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.

    Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?

    Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....

    https://vid.me/BL1K

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Mobil ATF is allegedly around 7.5wt, though it doesn't have an actual claimed weight. I've got all of one ride on the stuff. It is rare for me to finish a ride with travel left, but noticed I had most of an inch left after this one. Notable because I hit a fairly heavy staircase drop(maybe four feet to flat concrete), two jump spots(medium tables/gaps with a couple overshoots to flat), and popped a lot of lips around town. Normally the indicator would be topped out. I tried slamming the fork with my full weight repeatedly, but couldn't quite bottom it.

    I am on a standard bluto rl with 120mm travel, but the fluid change appears to have increased bottom out resistance, and the fork feels super smooth up top. I was getting amazing pop of the jumps, but my rebound issues may be affecting that.

    People report having great success with this stuff, and say it doesn't break down over time as fork oil will. I'll prolly be sticking with it. FTR, I'm 200# and prefer a relatively firm setup, so YMMV. I have stock tokens and run my fork @ 140psi.

  55. #455
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    Just FWIW, I noticed on my ride yesterday that I had a rather hard "bottom out" of my Bluto on the trail. Checked travel and I hadn't used more than about 65mm. Surprised I hadn't noticed any trouble before. But today, I started troubleshooting. Released air from the negative spring. No difference. Emptied positive air chamber, no change. Started working on the damper side, accidentally compressed the fork too much before I got the damper loosened, and the control rod and two steel bearings shot out, and I got a faceful of suspension fluid. Damn. Managed to find the little balls in my very messy workshop, amazingly enough. Heard one hit the tile and tracked it down quickly enough. Couldn't find the other at first, but started retracing events and found the second right underneath the bike. Thankfully, the spring stayed put inside the rod.

    It shot out a good bit of fluid, so I didn't bother removing more. Put everything back together and tested it out, and I managed to get full travel.

    I guess I had too much fluid in the damper side, but IIRC, I was getting full travel when I first did the damper swap, too. Not sure what changed. Thankfully it wasn't a difficult fix. Ran through the damper settings and the lockout still works, so I didn't remove too much fluid. Now for a ride tomorrow.

  56. #456
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    Coil in Bluto

    Did you ever try the u-turn style coil in the Bluto? Been thinking of trying that too.

    [QUOTE=
    At some point i'd really like to get my hands on a old school u-turn spring for shits and giggles to ditch the air side and not have to worry about loosing air in the cold temps[/QUOTE]

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurtP View Post
    Pyrex Griffin beakers are ±5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is ±0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.


    IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.
    Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
    "Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
    I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes

  58. #458
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    I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).

    Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).

    Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
    I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. On an earlier visit he told me the negative air migration usually occurs on hard compression, like a bottom out, or close to a bottom out.

    This is completely a design flaw in the Bluto, and will only get much worse in the winter months as the O-rings contract. They've essential designed a faulty summer fork for an all-season bike that is expected to be ridden in the winter. Unfortunately I only have two options left, I now have to call and complain to RockShock directly, about my negative air migration issues, or in the end cough up the dough to change the O-rings.

    I asked the shop mechanic if I simply rode the fork hard till it completely lost pressure in the winter, would they cover it then, and he said they'd most likely just tell them to release the air from the negative and pump it back up.

    Its like you design a car who's suspension is only meant for warm climates, and then come and sell it in Canada with no changes what so ever, and play dumb when the suspensions fail. I understand this is a very niche product, but when we pay premiums for niche products, its with the understanding that they're properly designed for that niche.

    All in all I know eventually I'll probably buy the O-rings myself, but I really wish everyone with a Bluto would call and complain. I always try and stay positive, but sometimes if feels like the bike industry is really just doing everything they can to reinforce the image of overpriced alloy and plastic that breaks 4 months in.

    The real kicker would be if the newer RCT3 version of the Bluto has thicker O-rings, be nice if that comparison could be done. Then we'd known if either they simply don't care or are trying to play dumb with first gen Bluto owners. Really wish there was some kind of competition in the FatBike Suspension Fork space, might force some actual changes/improvements.

  60. #460
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    This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.

  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.
    Nope, even in its current state, I'd take the bluto over any rigid fork without a second thought. The Bluto really turns your fatty into an all-season, all terrain shredder. The stability of a fat tire paired with a suspension is amazing.

  62. #462
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    I'm on the fence - I like rigid and suspension both.
    I may wait for the next gen fork and see if I'm convinced about this.

    That said I'm no newb, my first suspension fork was the Rock Shox Mag21 in the 90's, and if by this time the forks are still having these kinds of teething troubles and reliability issues...well like I said there's a lot to be said for rigid, all season, pretty much all terrain to boot.
    We shall see, but I appreciate your input.

  63. #463
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    I want an MRP fat Stage fork!!

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. .
    This can't be right, just can't believe it! For example, some Volvo's had a Renault motor. So, analogue to Rock Shox, you have to buy a new motor yourself when it breaks!

    So yeah i would call Rock Shox indeed and give them hell if above is true.



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  65. #465
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    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
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  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
    Nope. Fork spec'd on bike - no extra o-rings, crush washers, etc.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
    Bluto came as part of the frameset, so no box/parts. Don't know if extra's come in the regular Bluto box. But it wouldn't make a difference, they'd be faulty as well. The problem isn't my specific O-rings, the problem is the type of O-rings Rock Shox chose to use in the Bluto. They're faulty for summer use, and not dependable for winter conditions without having to constantly worry about Negative air migration.

    The after market O-ring winter kit wasn't even made to prevent negative air migration. It was made to prevent total air loss in cold conditions, due to the O-rings just letting all the air escape under compression in cold conditions. They're supposedly made from a different compound that doesn't contract like the existing Rock Shox O-rings. Fixing the negative air migration during summer use is just a side-effect of the O-rings also being the proper thickness.

  68. #468
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    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.
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  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHICKS View Post
    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.
    I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.

  70. #470
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    Thanks, I'll let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.
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  71. #471
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    Yes, you need a new air shaft, however the use of tokens is dependent on the ride quality. Tokens take up volume so the compression ramps up faster while preserving small bump compression, so you can have sensitivity without bottoming out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHICKS View Post
    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.

  72. #472
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    I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.

    I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?

    I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.

    I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.

    The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!

  73. #473
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    If you want to keep the original bottom headset, you'll need a new crown race with 45 degree (the one on your carbon fork is glued to it so no way to get it off and swap) (I didn't find it alone so had to buy one bottom headset and use the crown race) Then just insert it on the fork, a little grease, put the fork back in and go!

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  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03'Darin View Post
    I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.

    I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?

    I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.

    I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.

    The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!

    I think you are talking about the crown race on the fork. Assuming you are keeping the same headset then yes you want to take it off the old fork and install it on the new one. Your local bike shop will have tools for this and will charge you a minimal fee for it. Just be aware those are an interference fit and even with the proper tools they can be damaged during removal so you might end up replacing it. My suggestion would be to just spend a few bucks for a new one to put on your new fork so if you ever want to put the rigid fork back on you can. Since you are probably going to have your local shop build the wheel up just have them put a new crown race on the Bluto for a few bucks more

  75. #475
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    FYI if you are installing a Bluto on a Fatboy SE, they use a split crown race so you can easily reuse it without tools. Just slide it off and put it on the new fork.
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  76. #476
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    For everyone looking to shorten there 120mm Bluto Solo air, this might prove helpful RED5 had great success with using a spacer made from PVC pipe http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-free...ir-483642.html

  77. #477
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    That won't work, as there are different ways of balancing the positive and negative chamber on Bluto and Totem. Putting in a topout spacer will prevent the solo air balancing the chambers.

  78. #478
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    friend of mine would like to upgrade his bluto to RCT3 damper. he just needs to purchase the 'pike' RCT3 damper right? no other parts needed? has it been determined what the correct oil volume is? And a related question -- I've seen a post saying 'factory bluto RCT3' but SRAM's website still only shows the RL version....?

  79. #479
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    Not the pike damper. It's the SID damper. You can either get the RCT3 damper (older style) or if you want the dig valve, you need to get a the newer RCT3 damper and rebound shaft.

  80. #480
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    I did a quick 9 mile ride this morning before work. !st ride out with my new 120 Bluto on the Fatboy. After going through this thread a few times I decided on adding two pucks and starting out at 90 PSI. I'm probably about180 geared up. I also dropped the stem one spacer from the factory setup. Here are my initial thoughts.

    - I had no issue what so ever with a light front end on steep climbs
    - Steering response is a slight bit lazy compared to the stock ridged setup but not a problem at all
    - I ran 10 PSI up front compared to around 6 or 7 rigid so pretty much all of the self steer was gone.
    - Small bump compliance was good, didn't bottom out but also didn't have any bigger hits. I'm going to play with pressure slightly
    - Didn't even check the factory rebound setting and it seemed very good.
    - No stiction issue at all
    - Realized I can motor through the rock gardens pretty fast with the fork so I now need to up the rear tire pressure a bit to protect the rim

    I'm pretty much a set and forget kind of rider. Reading this thread seems to have helped me find the setting I need for the terrain I ride and my riding style. I'll play with pressure slightly but it felt so good I may realize my starting pressure is where I need to be.

    As I read this fork completely transforms this bike. If you're on the fence as I was, don't wait any longer to do this upgrade. Each day you wait is another day you'll miss out on all the benefits of this fork. Merlin Cycles is selling the 120 Bluto right now for $386 shipped. That's what put me over the edge. Thanks Merlin!!

  81. #481
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    Help - my bluto is sticky.

    It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings.

    I looked at the uppers and they look ok, too. However could they be bent? or could my bushings be damaged? or and I just missing something obvious. (i am really hoping I am just a dumass, and somebody will say - do this and it will be butter smooth.)

    Thoughts?

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    Help - my bluto is sticky.

    It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings.

    I looked at the uppers and they look ok, too. However could they be bent? or could my bushings be damaged? or and I just missing something obvious. (i am really hoping I am just a dumass, and somebody will say - do this and it will be butter smooth.)

    Thoughts?
    Did you notice if the inside of dust seals had grease? If they were dry and you didn't re-grease them I could see that being source of stiction. I use slick honey on the seals when servicing the lowers.

  83. #483
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    How many miles/hours are on said Bluto?

  84. #484
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    @ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly.

    The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound.

    @bdundee. I rode on it from last november. 3-4 hours/week in the winter. Less starting in May. So maybe 75 hours? I rebuilt it once in February because it was very sluggish in cold weather. I didn't do the ETR, but I rebuilt with slick honey. That helped.

    It's working much better after the recent rebuild. I got the trapped air out and I made sure I had 5 ml of oil in each leg. I used RS 15 wt. But its not supper smooth. I still get a bunch of stiction compared to my reba xx. I don't expect it to be xx calibur, but really the difference should be in damper. I know the reba is dual air, and the bluto is solo - so the springs are not the same, but I wouldn't expect a solo air to be sticky.

    I may just have to rebuild again with the ETR kit and make sure I SRAM butter the heck out of everything.

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    @ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly.

    The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound.

    @bdundee. I rode on it from last november. 3-4 hours/week in the winter. Less starting in May. So maybe 75 hours? I rebuilt it once in February because it was very sluggish in cold weather. I didn't do the ETR, but I rebuilt with slick honey. That helped.

    It's working much better after the recent rebuild. I got the trapped air out and I made sure I had 5 ml of oil in each leg. I used RS 15 wt. But its not supper smooth. I still get a bunch of stiction compared to my reba xx. I don't expect it to be xx calibur, but really the difference should be in damper. I know the reba is dual air, and the bluto is solo - so the springs are not the same, but I wouldn't expect a solo air to be sticky.

    I may just have to rebuild again with the ETR kit and make sure I SRAM butter the heck out of everything.
    Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).

    I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.

  86. #486
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    Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
    Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
    Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?

  87. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash04 View Post
    Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
    Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
    Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?
    Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.

    Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goE_1tOiljE

    Also I found quite a bit searching for Maxel removal.

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).

    I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.
    Well I rode 10 miles off road today. This is the first chance I have had to get the fork on some dirt. It works much better. There is still some stiction, but it is much less now than before, and seems less after riding than before. I think riding helped distribute the oil in the open bath. Or maybe its all in my head?

    Thanks for the quick replies. I am still going to do the ETR kit for this winter. Hopefully this will prevent the air lock I experienced.

  89. #489
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    Duh! Talk about feeling like a Dumb Ass, guess that what happens when you get older...you forget!! LMAO Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.

    Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goE_1tOiljE

    Also I found quite a bit searching for Maxel removal.

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
    "Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
    I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes
    I think you're right - somehow I interpreted it to be from the fork crown race seat. I probably thought that because the fork crown isn't even all the way around. I went by volume, but now may go back and take a height measurement.

  91. #491
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    I know this sounds pretty crazy, but has anyone put bottle mounts on a bluto?

  92. #492
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    Have to use hose clamps to fasten them on. Bike packers and other tourers have done this to suspension forks for years.

  93. #493
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    OK, I've had 2 Blutos now and had the same issue on both, they both worked fine at first, but then after a VERY short time air apparently migrated into either the neg air chamber or the lowers, causing the fork to stick a little when first compressed but then drop to about 1/2 travel with NO real increase in linear force application.

    From what I'm reading flipping through this thread, it's that RS just messed up and undersized the O-rings? Not riding in the cold, just 70 and sunny in San Diego. Love the Bluto when it's working fine but honestly RS should have recalled these POS's.... aside from this issue the fork performs fine. Bought the one fork as OEM from Bikesdirect.com so I'm a little leery of the PITA it will probably be to have my LBS warranty it for me- I'd rather just fix it myself- especially since I bought the 2nd fork used. Should the Turnagin Orings solve the issue? Thanks!

  94. #494
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    Both my brother and myself have the Bluto 100mm both pumped up to 120psi. On mine the sag is about 17% but when I push down hard on the bars I can get the red ring to go to the top, but when I get on my brothers bike sag is around 30% and I can't get the red ring to move to the top.
    Any ideas why 2 Bluto's set up the same would be performing so differently?

  95. #495
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    You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting

  96. #496
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    The one that bottoms out more easily?

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    Paying $55 for three o-rings, two crush-washers and some lube - makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to be using the lube for.

    I suspect all they did was spec alternative material o-rings (viton VS buna) or something similar.

    Turnagin - sorry, but @ $55, I'm not going to be using your lube.

  98. #498
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    So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting
    How do you do that?

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    How do you do that?
    Let air out of fork, compress it (if there is air in it it should be hard to push down the last bit) Insert pointy end of zip tie between seal and stanchion to let excess air out.

  101. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Rider View Post
    Paying $55 for three o-rings, two crush-washers and some lube - makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to be using the lube for.

    I suspect all they did was spec alternative material o-rings (viton VS buna) or something similar.

    Turnagin - sorry, but @ $55, I'm not going to be using your lube.
    I agree, reminds me of my KTM motorcycle days when one KTM fuel pump O-ring was $45 and a bag of 12 of the same was $9 at Grainger. If someone had the size and type, I'd be willing to be sourcing the individual parts would be significantly cheaper.
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  102. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyleberry View Post
    So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.
    I'm in the same boat as you on this. There has to be a problem with the seal head on the air spring causing this. It has gotten so bad that I don't even want to ride my mutz because of how bad the bluto is.

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  103. #503
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    If i remember right, from this tread, it's caused by the grease that is too sticky and blok the hole so the air get trapped in the bottom. SLik honey does the thing.

  104. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by new8812 View Post
    If i remember right, from this tread, it's caused by the grease that is too sticky and blok the hole so the air get trapped in the bottom. SLik honey does the thing.
    I will investigate that, but I kinda doubt that's what I have going on. I'm assuming the hole you are referring to it the transfer port between +and- spring chambers?
    Even if that is the case the seal head shouldn't be dumping air into the lowers.

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  105. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyleberry View Post
    So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.
    I recently fixed a friend's bluto that had air going into the negative chamber causing the fork to "drop" down to about half of its travel. The bluto has the same internals in the air side as the reba, it uses the same orings. I have owned several other rock shox air forks, 2 recons and 2 rebas, and have found air leakage to be a very common problem right off the bat, but very easy to fix. Out of the 4 RS air forks I have owned, 3 have come with faulty orings, causing air to leak into the lowers and pop off the dust wiper on the air side. With my friends case, the faulty o ring was the the one between the positive and negative air chamber. In all of these cases, I just replaced the orings with o rings from the local hardware store, a $2 value, and they have been problem free for years (the bluto is now a couple of months post repair).

    I think the orings RS is sourcing are just crappy. When this first happened to me I used the orings that came in a RS kit that was included with a new reba and the fix only lasted a couple of weeks before the air was leaking into the lowers again. I now only use orings from the local hardware store and also lube the orings and shaft with park lube polylube when changing them. I have a reba that has now been running for almost 2 years with these orings and does not loose any air whatsoever. I removed the lowers recently to change the bath oil and there was no air escaping when tapping in the air side bolt of the lowers, so no air has leaked to the lowers in quite some time.

  106. #506
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    So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.

    Thanks,

    urmb
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  107. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    I recently fixed a friend's bluto that had air going into the negative chamber causing the fork to "drop" down to about half of its travel. The bluto has the same internals in the air side as the reba, it uses the same orings. I have owned several other rock shox air forks, 2 recons and 2 rebas, and have found air leakage to be a very common problem right off the bat, but very easy to fix. Out of the 4 RS air forks I have owned, 3 have come with faulty orings, causing air to leak into the lowers and pop off the dust wiper on the air side. With my friends case, the faulty o ring was the the one between the positive and negative air chamber. In all of these cases, I just replaced the orings with o rings from the local hardware store, a $2 value, and they have been problem free for years (the bluto is now a couple of months post repair).

    I think the orings RS is sourcing are just crappy. When this first happened to me I used the orings that came in a RS kit that was included with a new reba and the fix only lasted a couple of weeks before the air was leaking into the lowers again. I now only use orings from the local hardware store and also lube the orings and shaft with park lube polylube when changing them. I have a reba that has now been running for almost 2 years with these orings and does not loose any air whatsoever. I removed the lowers recently to change the bath oil and there was no air escaping when tapping in the air side bolt of the lowers, so no air has leaked to the lowers in quite some time.
    This is really good to know, I'll probably end up doing the same. RS has dropped the ball on these O-rings royally. Only question would be, are plain old o-rings OK for winter use? Or do they have to be a specific material? I guess its research time.

    Quote Originally Posted by urmb View Post
    So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.

    Thanks,

    urmb
    100mm with 3 tokens is quite good. Plush enough for the small stuff, and don't have to worry about bottoming out on harsher landings.

  108. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by urmb View Post
    So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.

    Thanks,

    urmb
    Basically they make the fork more progressive to so it doesn't bottom out on bigger hits yet able to run a lower psi to help in small bump compliance. There is no set number on how many to use it is more rider specific for what you weigh, how you ride, and how you want your fork to perform.

    Here's what I do starting with no tokens. Set the sag in whatever rider position you want, beat the crap out of it, and if you don't use all the travel or close to it release a little air and repeat. If it bottoms out to easy add a little air, if feels to harsh after adding air go lower psi and add a token or two and beat the crap out of it again and check travel and feel

  109. #509
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    I just got the bluto but it came with no manual and I don't know how to adjust it. What is sag and how do I adjust it?

  110. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabu11et View Post
    I just got the bluto but it came with no manual and I don't know how to adjust it. What is sag and how do I adjust it?
    Watch/read this it will give you a good idea.

    How to set up a suspension fork - video - BikeRadar USA

  111. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Watch/read this it will give you a good idea.

    How to set up a suspension fork - video - BikeRadar USA
    thanks, I set it up to 80 psi and 3 clicks from slow but it feels stiff still and I'm about 160 pounds. I'm not getting full travel. How do I set compression? Do I need a tool or just turn the blue knob?

  112. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabu11et View Post
    thanks, I set it up to 80 psi and 3 clicks from slow but it feels stiff still and I'm about 160 pounds. I'm not getting full travel. How do I set compression? Do I need a tool or just turn the blue knob?
    Sag is just a rough starting point, take it for a ride and lower or raise pressure till you get desired ride.
    Then:
    Here's what I do starting with no tokens. Set the sag in whatever rider position you want, beat the crap out of it, and if you don't use all the travel or close to it release a little air and repeat. If it bottoms out to easy add a little air, if feels to harsh after adding air go lower psi and add a token or two and beat the crap out of it again and check travel and feel

  113. #513
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    Slick honey is rebranded slickoleum

    FYI, her in Qc, we can't find the Honey anywhere but just found out that it's Slickoleum rebranded, which we can easily find here. ;o)

  114. #514
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    I'm looking to add a remote lockout to my Bluto and was wondering if anyone has done the same. I have the poploc remote, I just need to understand what I need to purchase fork side (remote Motion Control Knob for PopLoc)

    Thanks!

  115. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    I'm looking to add a remote lockout to my Bluto and was wondering if anyone has done the same. I have the poploc remote, I just need to understand what I need to purchase fork side (remote Motion Control Knob for PopLoc)

    Thanks!
    I'm pretty sure you need to replace the entire compression lock mechanism to the remote lock version. You can't just convert the knob. It should be easy, but it isn't cheap. Last time I poked around they were going for $80-100. Did a quick eBay search and don't see any for sale, might need to get your lbs to order.

  116. #516
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    Figures - couldn't be that easy could it?

  117. #517
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    I was just searching around for a 100 mm air shaft to reduce travel from 120mm for winter riding. Apparently, air shafts are now available in 80mm, 90mm, 100mm, 110mm, and 120mm, so now you can really fine tune your travel preference. Treefort bikes had all the different sizes listed.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  118. #518
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    120mm Bluto stiction solved!

    I have a 120mm Bluto RL on my Foes Mutz and have been underwhelmed with its performance to say the least. It has always had a ton of stiction on initial movement along with inconsistent damping and bottoming. My first rebuild included switching to Slick Honey grease and 7wt oil set at highest level and no Tolkens. It was a big improvement but I had noticed something odd while I had it apart. The damper shaft has a groove around it at the top where it is clamped to the valve body, this is what holds them together, nothing strange here until I realized that when the shaft is fully extended (topped out) the inner o-ring on the white plastic seal assembly sits in this groove and causes the initial stiction. You can feel it just by sliding the seal up and down, its nice and smooth until it reaches the top and the inner o-ring seats in the groove and makes it harder to slide back down.
    I recently bottomed my fork pretty hard on a 4' drop off and it never felt the same so time for another rebuild. This time I decided to address the o-ring issue so I installed another small o-ring at the top of the shaft to keep the seal from traveling up far enough for the inner ring to fall into the groove. Problem solved, the fork is so much more responsive and smooth. I know this only has an effect on bumps after the fork has fully extended but to me its noticeable throughout the ride not to mention it was almost impossible to set the sag properly. Now the fork moves with the slightest pressure on the bars and settles into 20% sag nicely. I also used 10wt oil set to 70mm height, no air spacers and I get full travel with no wallowing or diving like it was originally.
    I assume this isn't a problem with shorter travel settings since the seal wouldn't come close to the groove.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bluto Tuning Thread-photo-1.jpg  

    Bluto Tuning Thread-photo-2.jpg  

    Bluto Tuning Thread-photo-3.jpg  

    Bluto Tuning Thread-photo-4.jpg  


  119. #519
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    The top pic shows the additional o-ring I installed, you can see the groove above it that interferes with the inner o-ring of the seal. I the pushed it past the groove so it rests against the spacer. Now the seal doesn't travel up far enough for the inner o-ring to fall into the groove.
    For suspension fork newbies, the chrome shaft is attached to the lower fork leg and moves up and down with the lower legs and wheel, the white seal sits at the bottom of the inner leg and keeps the oil from draining into the lower leg. The piston at the end of the shaft is what does the actual damping as it moves through the oil
    It actually feels like a normal fork now. At first I thought it was designed like this for a reason but I cant imagine why. Its so much better this way

  120. #520
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    Smart fix - I can't say I'm impressed with Rockshox R&D lately.

  121. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    The top pic shows the additional o-ring I installed, you can see the groove above it that interferes with the inner o-ring of the seal. I the pushed it past the groove so it rests against the spacer. Now the seal doesn't travel up far enough for the inner o-ring to fall into the groove.
    For suspension fork newbies, the chrome shaft is attached to the lower fork leg and moves up and down with the lower legs and wheel, the white seal sits at the bottom of the inner leg and keeps the oil from draining into the lower leg. The piston at the end of the shaft is what does the actual damping as it moves through the oil
    It actually feels like a normal fork now. At first I thought it was designed like this for a reason but I cant imagine why. Its so much better this way

    Awesome info. I have a lot of stiction with my 120mm. Setting sag is impossible. And getting the fork to be plush and resist bottoming is impossible. I added 2 tokens, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

    What size o-ring did you use

  122. #522
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    anyone have any leads to the Turnagain seal kit? I messaged them on Facebook and got no response.

    Universal doesn't have it in stock.

    Winter is almost here (Toronto) so i need to do something with my fork
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  123. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    anyone have any leads to the Turnagain seal kit? I messaged them on Facebook and got no response.

    Universal doesn't have it in stock.

    Winter is almost here (Toronto) so i need to do something with my fork
    I don't think the turnagain kit is available anymore? I haven't seen any updates or ebay listing in a long time. Plus their website is non existent anymore.

    I've been thinking about buying the standard full Bluto service kit and measuring all the O-rings. Then go an purchase silicone versions form a supplier for a small cost, that will fair better in the winter. I assume this is what Turnagain/Borealis did. The grease that comes withe kit though is just plain old slickoleum, your local MEC should have it in stock for $20.

    I've also been thinking of switching up the oil in the fork, since the first few 0C days have already altered the way the fork functions noticeably. I've always been a service manual spec kind of guy, but looking into fork oil for winter it seams viscosity isn't as straight forward.

    I'll do some more reading, but could someone recommend a good oil for winter? I think the current RS oil is just re-branded Maxima suspension oil for moto suspension. Looking into its specs it looks like it doesn't fair that well in low temp with a low pour point.

  124. #524
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    I hope some of you can help me.

    I am about to buy my first FatBike, and I'm trying to decide if a Bluto Fork is a good idea or not.

    I'm 300lbs+ and I'm getting into FatBiking so that I can get exercise and lose weight.

    At my weight, I am not going to be a speed demon. I'm not going to be doing wild jumps. But the trails I'll be riding are desert washes and rugged trails with lots of bumps, rocks, sand, loose dirt.

    My elbows/shoulders aren't what they used to be, and I'd like to ease some of that abuse.

    BUT! I don't want to waste the money on a Bluto if it won't handle my weight and/or if it will be a huge pain to maintain it.

    So based on all of that, do you think a Bluto is a good choice for me?

    Thank you.

  125. #525
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    :(

    Can anyone tell me why I cannot get more than 30% compression?

    The Bluto will not take any more air!

    Bluto Tuning Thread-img_0827.jpg
    Bluto Tuning Thread-img_0828.jpg

  126. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1sm3t View Post
    Can anyone tell me why I cannot get more than 30% compression?

    The Bluto will not take any more air!
    You need to release all the air from the negative chamber, and pump up the bluto again. Explained and detailed earlier in the thread : D.

  127. #527
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    I flipped the bike, removed the hex nut, extinguished all air, and re-filled until I could no longer pump.

    Still maintains 30%.

    I'm confused - this was my first ride with the fork too!

    (side note: I have a HV pump and not a shock pump - possible issue?)

  128. #528
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    Is it under pressurized? You could be releasing all air upon disconnect with a reg pump.

    That - or your air is immediately leaking to the opposite side and fork need service.

  129. #529
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    Not pressurized (meaning the fork is stationary with zero weight).

    Seriously my first ride with the form, albeit on snow, I still shouldn't have bottomed out? Right?

    Serviced out of the box? Or do I have a defect fork?

  130. #530
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    I believe you may be mixing up terms, adding to others confusion in helping you.

    No weight on the bike, just leaning up against the wall. You pump it up and the fork is sagged to 30%?

    First off, what pressure are you putting in it? There's a reference chart on the back of the fork leg to get you in the ball-park for your specific weight.

    You mention not having a shock pump. Don't want to say that it's impossible with a regular pump but damn hard to do easily.

  131. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    I believe you may be mixing up terms, adding to others confusion in helping you.

    No weight on the bike, just leaning up against the wall. You pump it up and the fork is sagged to 30%?

    First off, what pressure are you putting in it? There's a reference chart on the back of the fork leg to get you in the ball-park for your specific weight.
    I may need to acquire a shock pump in order to sufficiently test/measure the appropriate pressure going into the shock.

    I am only able to pump enough air into shock to acquire 30% - nothing greater - shock does not sag at this point. My initial ride (without adding any air) resulted in all air deflating.

    I need to acquire 120-135psi for my weight and it looks like I cannot acquire such a psi without a shock pump.

    Does that sound about right? Thank you for your advice thus far, a bit of a learning curve with air shocks!

  132. #532
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    Sounds like you definitely need a shock pump. You got to pump it up to reach the 0% mark with no weight on it.

    Pumped up to the appropriate pressure, with no weight on the bike, the reading on the stanchion should be 0%. Then you push the red ring down to the 0% and then get on the bike. Your weight on the bike pushes the red ring up to the sag 25-30% amount. Adjust air pressure to get near this amount of sag. From there you go ride and see how it feels.

    If you finish and the red ring is slammed to the top of the stanchion you've maxed the travel and need to sort out if you need to limit that in some way so the lower doesn't keep bottoming out on the upper. Think about the ride, was it one big atypical hit or continuously bottoming out? Options are to add more air or add a bottomless token.

    If you finish and you're not coming close to the top then you're shorting yourself travel and the fork should be tuned the other direction to gain that back.

  133. #533
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    Just got my Bluto converted from 100 to 120mm and added the Turnagain kit. Now it does a top-out klunk when manualed. Any ideas?

    Thanks!

  134. #534
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    Hi everyone,

    I'm super digging on all the info here on this thread. Hey, so I have a question about oil viscosity changes. Seems like some folks here are dropping down oil viscosity for winter riding which (apparently) reduces the dead, flabby feel of the fork. So, I just want to make sure I've got this right. You are leaving the 5wt oil in the compression circuit (the top right part of the fork) as the stock 5wt. But in the bottoms of each leg, you are using 5 ml of 7.5 wt oil instead of using 5 ml of 15 wt oil. Is that right? And the idea behind this is that it speeds up rebound? Do you do anything at all to manage compression? Normally, I run compression full open in the summer. Do you guys change anything for the winter? Also, has anyone tried the 0-30 wt oil that is used in Pikes? I've got some of that lying around and wonder what it might do. Thanks for any input!

  135. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Just got my Bluto converted from 100 to 120mm and added the Turnagain kit. Now it does a top-out klunk when manualed. Any ideas?

    Thanks!
    I wonder if you pos and negative chambers didn't equalize correctly?

  136. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I wonder if you pos and negative chambers didn't equalize correctly?
    Ethan of The Flow Zone got it sorted out. Some of the process was beyond my ability to fathom, but sounded like it needed more air pressure on the damper side to prevent the top-out. Also put in a different weight oil to work better in cold temperatures, swapped out a few o-rings that had some imperfections, and tuned the pressure/rebound. Bluto is running very well now!

  137. #537
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    Now that folks have been riding these awhile, anyone had a problem with the external cam on the Maxle Lite thru-axle wearing out? When I transport my fatty in my car, it mounts to a Kuat Dirtbag inside the car. On my wife's car, it goes on a Kuat NV with the wheel on. Usually I transport the bike in my car, so the front wheel goes on and off fairly often.

    I have noticed that the external cam has been wearing out (you can see bare metal on the parts of the cam where there is friction) and it takes SIGNIFICANTLY less force to open or close it. It's not quite to the point where the lever will flop open, but I decided to order a DT RWS thru axle to replace it. I've had good results with RWS skewers in the past, so figure this will be a good option.

  138. #538
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    The cam is adjustable via a small allen in the center of the axle ( open the lever and it's a straight shot to it)
    I have had to tighten mine 2 clicks in the last year of riding...and I have to take my wheel off to get it in.
    All you are seeing is the anodizing wearing off and everything stretching a little

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Now that folks have been riding these awhile, anyone had a problem with the external cam on the Maxle Lite thru-axle wearing out? When I transport my fatty in my car, it mounts to a Kuat Dirtbag inside the car. On my wife's car, it goes on a Kuat NV with the wheel on. Usually I transport the bike in my car, so the front wheel goes on and off fairly often.

    I have noticed that the external cam has been wearing out (you can see bare metal on the parts of the cam where there is friction) and it takes SIGNIFICANTLY less force to open or close it. It's not quite to the point where the lever will flop open, but I decided to order a DT RWS thru axle to replace it. I've had good results with RWS skewers in the past, so figure this will be a good option.

  139. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    The cam is adjustable via a small allen in the center of the axle ( open the lever and it's a straight shot to it)
    I have had to tighten mine 2 clicks in the last year of riding...and I have to take my wheel off to get it in.
    All you are seeing is the anodizing wearing off and everything stretching a little
    I will tighten mine for now, but that's not an ano finish. I might buy that the wear I'm noticing is mostly paint, but I've never really been a fan of the external cam Maxle Lite, anyway.

  140. #540
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    Question about Bluto RCT3. What does the silver dial on top of the blue compression setting dial do? I can't find the info anywhere.
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon X01

  141. #541
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    Rebond control

  142. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by new8812 View Post
    Rebond control
    Isn't that controlled by the red knob at the bottom of the fork?
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon X01

  143. #543
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    It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)

  144. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by new8812 View Post
    It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)
    So if I turn it up top, the bottom turns too? Get out... I'll go try that. Not like it's needed IMO...

    Thanks for the info!
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon X01

  145. #545
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    ;o)

  146. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    Question about Bluto RCT3. What does the silver dial on top of the blue compression setting dial do? I can't find the info anywhere.
    Read this and you will know about the RCT3 damper.

    FAQLoad - Rockshox RCT3 damper
    RICOH for LIFE
    Pain is Weakness

  147. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by new8812 View Post
    It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)
    WRONG!
    It's the low speed compression....( it even says that right on it)
    When the blue lever is in "Open mode" it allows you to adjust the compression damping
    When in the "platform mode" it allows adjustment of the platform( this has the most effect)
    Rebound is the red know on the bottom

  148. #548
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    So....is the RCT3 worth the $105 over the stock damper?

  149. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    WRONG!
    It's the low speed compression....( it even says that right on it)
    When the blue lever is in "Open mode" it allows you to adjust the compression damping
    When in the "platform mode" it allows adjustment of the platform( this has the most effect)
    Rebound is the red know on the bottom
    Does anyone find this works well? On mine, if I have the LSC knob turned on even one click it turns the platform into a lockout.

  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I will tighten mine for now, but that's not an ano finish. I might buy that the wear I'm noticing is mostly paint, but I've never really been a fan of the external cam Maxle Lite, anyway.
    The purpose of the lever is to expand the swedge to keep the maxle from loosening. It's not like a regular quick release that clamps the wheel.
    1 click of the adjustment is probably all you need. A few drops of lube like Dri-slide or Tri Flow on the cam and swedge keep this working smoother

    If you don't like the Maxle lever, DT was working on a RWS axle for the Bluto. I don't know if it's out yet.

  151. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIke N Gear View Post
    Does anyone find this works well? On mine, if I have the LSC knob turned on even one click it turns the platform into a lockout.
    Something isn't right there.
    On the 3 I have here....it is very gradual

  152. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    So....is the RCT3 worth the $105 over the stock damper?
    Maybe???
    I have both.
    The RCT allows tuning of the pedal platform....which I like.( this may come at the expense of some small bump compliance)
    As far as function,in the open position, they are about the same.

  153. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    Read this and you will know about the RCT3 damper.

    FAQLoad - Rockshox RCT3 damper
    Ok, so, to set up the shock to smooth out the smallest of bumps, turn the silver top knob to the left, to keep it firm, turn it to the right. Is that the thought?

    Many thanks for the clarification.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon X01

  154. #554
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    So I just did a service on my Bluto. The Bluto would stiffen up quite a bit as soon as you hit around freezing 1c ~ 0c or just bellow freezing at -1c ~ -2c, and become really hard at - 5c ~ -10c. With this in mind I decided to avoid using the oem Rockshox oil and opted for some Lucas Synthetic Moto Fork oil in the same stock weights.

    I gotta say the difference is drastic at around freezing there's pretty much no noticeable reduction in performance, and the shock only starts to stiffen up just a tad at -10c. The Bluto finally feels like a proper winter fork. Another positive is that the lbs sells the Rockshox oil for $10 ~ 100ml but the Lucas oil is $8-9 for 473ml.

    The Lucas oil was the most readily available at the local generic auto store, since there's no moto store near my location. I wonder if snowmobile suspension fluid would be even better?

    Oh and my stock damper was about 5ml short of fluid vs service manual, and there was little grease in the fork and absolutely no grease by the wipers. The foam rings are small in the Bluto and were almost bone dry after 8 months. So I'd say do service earlier rather then later.

  155. #555
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    I'm trying to service my Bluto right now but can not separate the lower tube from the upper tube. I released the air out of the top of the fork, removed the rebound adjuster, and both bottom bolts. Am I missing something here?

  156. #556
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    Did you tap the lower bolts after you loosened them up sum. I can't rember what I used on the Buto, maybe a long Allen on one side, can't rember the rebound side.

  157. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Did you tap the lower bolts after you loosened them up sum. I can't rember what I used on the Buto, maybe a long Allen on one side, can't rember the rebound side.
    Yeah, I tapped the allen with a mallet for both bolts. I'm wondering if I need to strike the allen harder with the mallet?

  158. #558
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    Mine need a good whack, I use a Allen socket with an extension and give it a good smack

  159. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducman View Post
    Mine need a good whack, I use a Allen socket with an extension and give it a good smack
    That was it. Had to hit it a little harder. Thanks for the help everyone.

  160. #560
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    '-5 degrees celcius and can feel my SID rct 3 stiffening up both slow compression/ rebound. I put my money on Bluto not working when temps dip below -30 without fluid mods.'

    At -30, either Celsius or Fahrenheit, unless your running the Ididarod, I don't see many of us out riding anyway.

  161. #561
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    Anyone have a 120 air shaft that they swapped out or want to unload? Actually looking for two of them...
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  162. #562
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    I was tuning up my bike the other day and decided to change the cable and housing on my remote lockout lever. The housing had cracks and the cable end after the anchor point was a bit short.

    With the cable detached the spool springs back into closed position (locked out). I pulled out the locking button, strung the new cable, lubed the button mechanism with some slick honey and installed new housing and ferrels. I pulled the cable taught and anchored the cable. There is no slack in the cable. When I push the lock button in (to unlock the fork) it won't stay in the locked position.

    I searched the SRAM Rockshox pages for the service manual but it seems this 2015 lockout lever has been replaced by the OneLoc. So, what am I missing? The internals of the lockout button were in good shape and worked before I changed the cable.

    **update - I can't find any further information on the Pushloc lever so I removed it and locked the spool into open position by dead ending a cable with the head in the housing guide ring, turned the spool to open and cinched the cable with the set screw. It works for now but I'm really interested in understanding how the lever is supposed to lock? There seems to be just two moving parts and the cable but there are no detents or mechanisms in there I can detect to hold it in the open (pushed in) position.

    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
    Last edited by SRALPH; 01-20-2016 at 03:55 PM. Reason: update

  163. #563
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    How is everyone setting things up for snow riding?

    Should the sag be a bit more and if so how much and why?


    Rebound more or less and why?


    Compression more or less and why?


    Would my tire pressure be more than someone without suspension.



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  164. #564
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    I'd say just check the air pression, which will fall because of the cold and go! We have a 100 and a 120 here and didn't touch anything than the psi and everything is very smooth. As for tire's pressure, it's the condition of the snow that is dictating it, not the Bluto.

  165. #565
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    Or you could lock it out if riding smooth snow trails and just run low air pressure in the tires.

  166. #566
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    Just a data point here. I picked up a Fatboy Expert that already ha a Bluto RL on it - 100mm. I was not convinced I was keeping it (Fat bike is the winter/snow steed only - seem sto usually ride between 10 and 30F) and was considering putting a carbon fork back on - until I converted the fork back to 80mm per Specialized geometry and installed the Turnagain cold weather seal kit (which I ordered in late December). Kit is awfully expensive for what it is - but have to say now the fork feels great all the time. Definitely not taking it off.

  167. #567
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    Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.

  168. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisappearHere View Post
    Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.

    Mine came stock 160 so I had to use a 20mm post to post bracket when I upgraded to 180.

  169. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisappearHere View Post
    Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.
    I'm using a 203 up front paired with Guides and the standard 200mm Avid bracket. 3mm of spacer washers between bracket and caliper mounting flange, works great.

    Quote Originally Posted by CObikeman View Post
    Just a data point here. I picked up a Fatboy Expert that already ha a Bluto RL on it - 100mm. I was not convinced I was keeping it (Fat bike is the winter/snow steed only - seem sto usually ride between 10 and 30F) and was considering putting a carbon fork back on - until I converted the fork back to 80mm per Specialized geometry and installed the Turnagain cold weather seal kit (which I ordered in late December). Kit is awfully expensive for what it is - but have to say now the fork feels great all the time. Definitely not taking it off.
    That's just the Slick Honey, or Slickoleum replacing the red military grease. You do have to service more often though, since the Slick Honey/Slickoleum has a shorter service cycle. Probably half of the original service cycle for tacky red military spec grease.

  170. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    Mine came stock 160 so I had to use a 20mm post to post bracket when I upgraded to 180.
    Thanks for the info. I just finished building my ICT with bluto and I got the adapter as you suggested. Now to experiment with tuning the fork!

  171. #571
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    After reading through this thread I have become very confused on what part to purchase to convert my stock first gen Bluto to RCT3.... Post 81 gives a link to the damper (I think)

    http://www.amazon.com/RockShox-MoCo-...A2TE9IQP68MWQU

    is this all I need for the job? I am doing a complete service on the fork and while I have it opened up I want to upgrade.

    Thanks!

  172. #572
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    The damper I used was part #
    11.4015.544.070
    Nothing else required.

  173. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    The damper I used was part #
    11.4015.544.070
    Nothing else required.
    Thanks man...that's the one

  174. #574
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    Couple questions: skimming through this thread, it appears the RCT3 is the preferred fork Has the RL been updated? Why does it cost more?

    Second Question: Currently I'm running 15x142 thru axle. If I go with the Bluto I'd need to have the wheel re-dished. Are there any issues with doing this or would I be better off having the wheel rebuilt with a 15X150 hub. I'm think about picking up a leftover Beargrease 2 and setting it up as a summer trail bike with the Bluto.

    Thanks.

  175. #575
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    I've noticed lately my Bluto seemed to be running a little stiff so I released air from positive and negative sides and pumped it back up. Seems better, but when I check sag, it's only moving a few mm's. I have a 100mm fork, running 3 tokens at 70 lbs pressure and weigh around 185. Any idea why the sag is so low? I'm wondering if my pressure gauge is way off. It seems most people my weight are running higher pressure. I ride some pretty rocky/rooty trails and steamroll stuff at speed and rarely bottom out. Damper problem maybe? Rebuild time?
    I have the remote lockout version and the lockout seems to be working fine.

  176. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    I have a 120mm Bluto RL on my Foes Mutz and have been underwhelmed with its performance to say the least. It has always had a ton of stiction on initial movement along with inconsistent damping and bottoming. My first rebuild included switching to Slick Honey grease and 7wt oil set at highest level and no Tolkens. It was a big improvement but I had noticed something odd while I had it apart. The damper shaft has a groove around it at the top where it is clamped to the valve body, this is what holds them together, nothing strange here until I realized that when the shaft is fully extended (topped out) the inner o-ring on the white plastic seal assembly sits in this groove and causes the initial stiction. You can feel it just by sliding the seal up and down, its nice and smooth until it reaches the top and the inner o-ring seats in the groove and makes it harder to slide back down.
    I recently bottomed my fork pretty hard on a 4' drop off and it never felt the same so time for another rebuild. This time I decided to address the o-ring issue so I installed another small o-ring at the top of the shaft to keep the seal from traveling up far enough for the inner ring to fall into the groove. Problem solved, the fork is so much more responsive and smooth. I know this only has an effect on bumps after the fork has fully extended but to me its noticeable throughout the ride not to mention it was almost impossible to set the sag properly. Now the fork moves with the slightest pressure on the bars and settles into 20% sag nicely. I also used 10wt oil set to 70mm height, no air spacers and I get full travel with no wallowing or diving like it was originally.
    I assume this isn't a problem with shorter travel settings since the seal wouldn't come close to the groove.
    Hmmmm, are you sure this wouldn't be an issue on a 100mm fork? I seem to be having the same issues; stiction and sag is only a few mm with low air pressure for my weight. Assuming my pressure gauge is accurate anyway.
    I think it's time for a rebuild anyway so I think I'll try the extra o-ring and see if it works. Couldn't hurt anything.

  177. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    ....... sag, it's only moving a few mm's. I have a 100mm fork, running 3 tokens at 70 lbs pressure and weigh around 185. Any idea why the sag is so low? I'm wondering if my pressure gauge is way off. It seems most people my weight are running higher pressure. I ride some pretty rocky/rooty trails and steamroll stuff at speed and rarely bottom out. Damper problem maybe? Rebuild time?
    I have the remote lockout version and the lockout seems to be working fine.
    I have the crown-lock out on a 100mm aftermarket Bluto. For the longest time I couldn't get the low speed knob to even rotate. Once freed up it doesn't seem to make a difference.

    I weigh that dressed/geared up, no tokens, 70 psi, 15% sag and just used all 100mm for the first time. I'd never used more than 80mm with 1 token. 2 tokens were worse and all 3 were a joke. It'd ramp so much at the end of the stroke I'd never actually reach full travel with the low psi tires. Tires would squash up first. Just a thought that with many of the same variables eliminated we are experiencing different results with different tokens. They are easy to swap at home.

    Older midrange components with a mediocre factory build have resulted in 12 pages of inconsistently poor results. Tough to know exactly what the problems are. Seems many can't even get it to perform as well as its 2.x tire counterpart.

  178. #578
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    I'm 190 and run (opps 90psi) psi and get full travel on a 120mm Bluto. Everyone says thats really low pressure, but it doesn't feel to bad and I use about 90% of the travel. I ride it pretty hard on a Mutz too.
    Last edited by kntr; 10-13-2016 at 09:07 PM.

  179. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    I'm 190 and run 45-50 psi and get full travel on a 120mm Bluto. Everyone says thats really low pressure, but it doesn't feel to bad and I use about 90% of the travel. I ride it pretty hard on a Mutz too.
    How many tokens are you running?

  180. #580
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    That's wierd you can't get it to bottom out with 2 tokens. I tun 4 tokens in mine with like 65psi. I weigh like 195ish with winter gear/lights. I consistently get full travel.

    My only complaint is with the amount of stiction i have. I need to rebuild mine with some slick honey, i think. I've just got to get some fork oil.

    Why are people using a heavier weighted 7.5 vs the stock recommended 5wt? I feel like colder weather should be using something like a 2.5wt

  181. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    How many tokens are you running?
    Whatever is stock.

  182. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    Whatever is stock.
    I believe the 120 doesn't come with any.

  183. #583
    blood in / blood out
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    You can go to rockshox.com/service to find out what is in your fork from stock form
    RICOH for LIFE
    Pain is Weakness

  184. #584
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    I'm having trouble figuring out this rct3 damper upgrade. Will the damper from a Revelation fit?

  185. #585
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    With Turnagain gone, does anyone have a source for cold weather orings? Or has RS improved their setup since launch? Just getting a bluto for the first time now...

    g

  186. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    The damper I used was part #
    11.4015.544.070
    Nothing else required.
    Rockshox says this damper is for 120mm, does it also work on the 100mm?

    ac

  187. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    I believe the 120 doesn't come with any.
    https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign....s_tokens_0.pdf

  188. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregclimbs View Post
    With Turnagain gone, does anyone have a source for cold weather orings? Or has RS improved their setup since launch? Just getting a bluto for the first time now...

    g
    The kit was a waste.....don't worry about it.

  189. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I'm having trouble figuring out this rct3 damper upgrade. Will the damper from a Revelation fit?
    Save yourself the money....it's not worth it.
    Biggest difference is putting some SlikHoney in there and the right oil level

  190. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Save yourself the money....it's not worth it.
    Biggest difference is putting some SlikHoney in there and the right oil level
    That's disappointing to read. This bluto sucks compared to my pike.

  191. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    That's disappointing to read. This bluto sucks compared to my pike.
    You are comparing a 100ish travel XC fork with a longer travel, higher volume, heavy duty fork....
    Comparing apples and hand grenades

  192. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    You are comparing a 100ish travel XC fork with a longer travel, higher volume, heavy duty fork....
    Comparing apples and hand grenades
    I can't argue that but the bluto basically sucks. The damping is terrible. I was hoping putting a damper similar to the pike style setup would at least improve it. I was also considering swapping the air shaft to get 120 travel. I realize we can't fix the flex.

  193. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I can't argue that but the bluto basically sucks. The damping is terrible. I was hoping putting a damper similar to the pike style setup would at least improve it. I was also considering swapping the air shaft to get 120 travel. I realize we can't fix the flex.
    First off...congrats on saying "damping" and not "dampening"....
    What sucks about it.....that is a pretty vague term.
    I found that opening it up.....putting good slippery grease and good oil ( at correct level) made a big difference. More than the swap to the rct3 damper.

  194. #594
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    It's just not plush. It feels under damped no matter how I adjust it. I can't get a balance between small bump compliance and big hit protection.

  195. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    It's just not plush. It feels under damped no matter how I adjust it. I can't get a balance between small bump compliance and big hit protection.
    Lower pressure and more tokens.

  196. #596
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    If you let all the air out of the top, should the fork collapse and stay down? I just did it to mine and it will still pop back up after I push it all the way down. I'm assuming there's still air in the negative side indicating a leak.

  197. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    If you let all the air out of the top, should the fork collapse and stay down?
    No.

    There's still air in the top, even at 0 PSI, and it will compress when you push the fork down. Also, the lowers have air in, and while the seals around the stanchions aren't perfect, they'll hold air long enough to make the forks spring up again.

    Do the Blutos even have a negative air chamber? (I didn't think so).

    If the air pressure in the 'top' is holding fom week to week, then there isn't a leak.

  198. #598
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    I have a new bluto and I want to convert it to the RCT3 damper. I upgraded my older 2013 Reba a couple years ago and it made a big difference. However, I upgraded the rebound assembly also, to the shimmed version with dig valve. Do the new Blutos work the same way? Will I need a new rebound assembly and rct3 damper to take full advantage?

    Also, is it using the A3 version for a 100mm bluto? Thanks guys.

  199. #599
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    I hope someone chimes in and answers. I'm looking for the same info for a 2015 bluto 120.

  200. #600
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    Parts# 11.4018.025.001 and 11.4018.025.002 are what you need.

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