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  1. #201
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    My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.
    I think you already nailed it with the fluid level.

  3. #203
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    Was it working when you installed it

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.
    More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that
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  5. #205
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    But a change in oil level means a leak somewhere then.....check bottom bolts for a good seal and no drips ..may need to change crush washers

  6. #206
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    Right now I have the 100mm Bluto on my Framed Minnesota 3.0. I have issues with it bottoming out easy. So would my first step be to add another black token ? I have not opened it up, but it should have 2 of them? so adding one more would make 3 ?


    I am 250 before gear so around 260. I have 155 in the shock but did not want to go any more for a few reasons.


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  7. #207
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    I weigh 240, 250+ geared up and I went from zero to three tokens in my 120mm Bluto to get it from bottoming out while still having small bump compliance. I would say add a token or two. Only takes about 5 minutes to swap them out - I started with two, then went to three. I am probably going to try a fourth once it gets warm again and I start riding harder. :-)
    I have the RCT3 damper and more tokens to add to my 100mm Bluto as well - but still waiting on my Bucksaw frame to get here. If you want to run that low of pressure, I would put in the max (four) tokens at the start. I believe I am running 200# in my Bluto with the three tokens. Before the tokens at 200PSI I would bottom out, 220 I would not bottom out easily but the fork was very stiff and didn't move very well on smaller bumps.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that
    Thanks, Dave- that's what I've heard.

    I also picked up the Borealis/ Turnagain ETR/ O-Ring kit and plan on installing that in the next few days, so I'll have the whole fork apart either way. I don't think I'm getting fluid loss at all, but it's possible that with the colder temps, the fluid isn't flowing well and so the damper is acting like it doesn't have enough. Or something.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  9. #209
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    Ok, so my awesome friend at one of my LBS gave me 2 black tokens. I put them in, I now have 4.

    After seeing what they are, I want to know what they do, and how they work ??
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  10. #210
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    I am not sure how they work, but they make the spring rate more progressive. Air forks are more progressive than spring forks, but lots of technology and tuning has gone into air forks to make them more linear like a coil fork. This takes some of that away and makes it more progressive (harder to compress the farther down the travel it goes).

    As for the science behind it, I have no idea other than changing the air volume, like how changing oil levels or adding spacers was done on previous air forks to get the progressiveness where you wanted it.
    I know from experience that it makes a difference and works. I just don't really know how.

    :-)

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Javorsky View Post
    Ok, so my awesome friend at one of my LBS gave me 2 black tokens. I put them in, I now have 4.

    After seeing what they are, I want to know what they do, and how they work ??
    I imagine they just reduce the air volume in the fork while leaving the travel the same. in effect you can start with a lower air pressure for initial stroke and because of the lower volume of air, the pressure builds more quickly proportional to the stroke so you end with the same max pressure at the bottom of the stroke.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that
    Stink. I pulled the RCT3 damper last night and, sure enough, oil was low. I topped it off and re-assembled, but the damper still isn't locking out. I assume the oil level is the same for the RCT3 damper as with the stock damper (service manual says RL and RLT are 71-77mm from top of crown surface - as opposed to 64-70mm for the RL3)?

    Any other thoughts from anyone?

    No leaking/ fluid loss apparent anywhere. Pogo stick fork on climbs...
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  13. #213
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    My buddy's Bluto wont fully extend the last 20%.

  14. #214
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    My buddy's Bluto wont fully extend the last 20%.
    There is too much pressure in the lower leg. Open the air side bottom hex screw and release the pressure from the bottom side of the fork (there is a schrader valve inside the leg). This is the quick (but not the permanent) solution.

    I recommend to open the whole fork and change the factory grease (red sticky pm800 military grease) to eg. Slick Honey.

  15. #215
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    Wow I must just be lucky because I never touched my bluto and I think it's great. We'll, I did one ride and didn't use enough travel, so I let a little air out. Done. I may have also opened up the rebound just a hair on the first ride but I don't even recall. Haven't felt the need to touch it since, or even think about it.

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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    I moved to fatbikes from full susp bike with quality susp parts. Riding the stock Bluto was a bit of a shock and hence I updated my 100 mm Bluto to 120 mm with RCT3, Slick Honey and Redline fork oil and now I'm finally happy. IMO this is how RS should ship Blutos.

  17. #217
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    I had a problem with my bluto from the get go. After my first ride the 100mm had sucked down to about 70mm. So I had to take the bike back to the shop. The mechanic thought it might just be the cold air making it contract but I thought that sounded stupid. After leaving the bike there overnight they told me they had to pump up the pressure really high because they thought it was grease clogging the valve that controls the air between the positive and negative chamber. It's been working fine since but still not too sure about the explanation.

  18. #218
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    Edit: RCT3 damper and DigValve rebound damper sold.

    Phenomenal upgrade though!
    Last edited by 06HokieMTB; 03-16-2015 at 09:07 AM.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Stink. I pulled the RCT3 damper last night and, sure enough, oil was low. I topped it off and re-assembled, but the damper still isn't locking out. I assume the oil level is the same for the RCT3 damper as with the stock damper (service manual says RL and RLT are 71-77mm from top of crown surface - as opposed to 64-70mm for the RL3)?

    Any other thoughts from anyone?

    No leaking/ fluid loss apparent anywhere. Pogo stick fork on climbs...

    Sounds to me like you're still too low on oil.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Any other thoughts from anyone?
    I assume that while pushing the damper in to the fork, it's possible that the shim stack rotates (not a fact, only my assumption) somehow so that the lock-out doesn't work, even though one has the correct oil level in the fork. So, take the RCT3 damper out from the fork again and keep it in your hands, then try to rotate the shim stack part of it (the most bottom part) while pulling it apart simultaneously (the spring resists this). Pay attention what rotating does and try to find a position, where the shim stack rests well and is properly aligned to the damper. You can also try the lock-out by using the lock-out ring and rotating it.

    Then, be careful while pushing the damper back to the fork (no excessive force needed) and after the assembly, push the fork all the way down and back up slooow-ly a couple of times (if needed, take out some pressure from the air side, to do this) so that the oil really flows through the damper. Do this with the lock-out fully open, in pedal position and fully closed.

    I ended up having the same no lock-out problem with my RCT3 once and above mentioned helped to resolve it. During one push-in, the fork stiffened and the lock-out started to work again. As a side note, the fork does not lock 100 % and I assume this is expected behaviour.

    PS. Remember to attach the lock-out ring with the "ring nut" before pushing the fork down - it's not nice to try to find two little steel balls and one little spring from your shop floor after the needle in the middle of the damper has popped out.. (been there, done that )

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    PS. Remember to attach the lock-out ring with the "ring nut" before pushing the fork down - it's not nice to try to find two little steel balls and one little spring from your shop floor after the needle in the middle of the damper has popped out.. (been there, done that )
    Dood I soooooo did that with mine

  22. #222
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    Been there..........

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    I assume that while pushing the damper in to the fork, it's possible that the shim stack rotates (not a fact, only my assumption) somehow so that the lock-out doesn't work, even though one has the correct oil level in the fork. So, take the RCT3 damper out from the fork again and keep it in your hands, then try to rotate the shim stack part of it (the most bottom part) while pulling it apart simultaneously (the spring resists this). Pay attention what rotating does and try to find a position, where the shim stack rests well and is properly aligned to the damper. You can also try the lock-out by using the lock-out ring and rotating it.

    Then, be careful while pushing the damper back to the fork (no excessive force needed) and after the assembly, push the fork all the way down and back up slooow-ly a couple of times (if needed, take out some pressure from the air side, to do this) so that the oil really flows through the damper. Do this with the lock-out fully open, in pedal position and fully closed.

    I ended up having the same no lock-out problem with my RCT3 once and above mentioned helped to resolve it. During one push-in, the fork stiffened and the lock-out started to work again. As a side note, the fork does not lock 100 % and I assume this is expected behaviour.

    PS. Remember to attach the lock-out ring with the "ring nut" before pushing the fork down - it's not nice to try to find two little steel balls and one little spring from your shop floor after the needle in the middle of the damper has popped out.. (been there, done that )

    Okay- this is awesome. I was just getting on to share my latest findings. So, I pulled the damper out again (before seeing your post) and remembered that when I had it out the first time, I pulled on the shim stack and it was possible when it went back in, it didn't line up right. SO- I started playing with it. On what I assume is the Shim Stack, there are little detents- when you turn the lockout, you can see some of these detents in the aluminum plate just below a black plastic plate that has cutouts on opposite sides. As you rotate the lockout lever, the Shim Stack/ Aluminum plate with detents rotates, exposing different combinations of the detents. Most of the detents are just small, circular pockets/ holes (but don't go all the way through the aluminum), but one is a larger cavity. I lined it up so that "Open" position was over the largest cavity and put it back together. I now have lockout in the lockout position, but "pedal" position basically also feels locked out (a little less than full lockout) and the "open" position has some compression, but doesn't feel like as much as it used to.

    Does anyone know the proper alignment for those detents in the open position? It's also possible that I topped off the oil a little too high (thinking fluid level was the problem) and this is the proper alignment. Slowerthansnot- any insight here?

    Sorry I don't have any pics. I'll probably pull it apart later tonight and I'll try to snap a couple.
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  24. #224
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    With 2 tokens I'm very happy with the Bluto performance. Bombed down a rough 20 minutes descent yesterday in the snow and I thought the fork did a great job. If anything I'd like to see a Pluto (Pike plus Bluto), something stiffer and more capable!
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  25. #225
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Not detents at all- they're holes.

    I think I know how it's supposed to line up, but it's still not locking out when I put it together.


    There are two types of mountain bikers. Those who are faster than me, and me.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  26. #226
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    Just thought I'd share my experience with the bluto. It's been cold lately, a few 20 degree or less rides, and the fork has been feeling awful. It just feels "dead" soft and wasn't rebounding fast enough for me.
    I pulled the lowers, greased and lubed the seals and foam rings. I generally use a 10/30 high grade motor oil as lower lube, and motorex prep-m for sliding parts and seals. I also disassembled the air spring and used prep-m on everything in there. I dumped the damper oil and replaced it with a cocktail of 20cc 5 wt, and the rest 2.5 to. Get an oil height of about 75mm.
    What a difference! I can now run the damper adjustments in the middle positions and everything feels great.
    I'm very aggressive 200lb rider, who likes to jump things on the trail. I'm running 2 tokens at 105 psi, and I like light compression with fast rebound.
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  27. #227
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    ^Nice! Great report. I think the stock grease is absolutely horrible for cold temps. Hell, I thought it was bad in warmer temps. My fork was kinda sticky right out of the box, but a rebuild with Slick Honey and it felt worlds better.
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  28. #228
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    I was out in 0f the other night, with the slick honey and the stock oil weight and the rebound on the fast side I thought it was working great.

  29. #229
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    Thanks for this thread. My fork was rigid at 5 F the other day, swapped the stock grease for slick honey and I had suspension today at 5 F.

    Doing the rebuild, I had a bear of a time with the snap ring. Finally got it out. The other thing I almost bodged up was the 5 ml of oil in each leg. I was happily torquing the hex bolts at the base of the fork leg and luckily I remembered I hadn't put any in. doh!

  30. #230
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    Rode mine today at 11F smooth as a baby's a,,

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat907 View Post
    Rode mine today at 11F smooth as a baby's a,,
    My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after a month on it I went back to Bluto and it's staying on.

  32. #232
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    Re: Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after a month on it I went back to Bluto and it's staying on.
    My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to matto6 again.

  34. #234
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    Sold my carver carbon so I wouldn't be temped......lol

  35. #235
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    I have a similar setup and am going to at least try it.
    Good to see the successful rebuild info on the Bluto.

    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.

  36. #236
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    I fitted my bike with a 100mm Bluto because that's what was in stock when I went to buy. I just purchased a 120mm Bluto equipped bike for my wife and I want it the other way around. Is it easy to change the parts over over should I have a shop dot it. I think its jus the air tube but not sure what that all consist of to do?

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody01 View Post
    I fitted my bike with a 100mm Bluto because that's what was in stock when I went to buy. I just purchased a 120mm Bluto equipped bike for my wife and I want it the other way around. Is it easy to change the parts over over should I have a shop dot it. I think its jus the air tube but not sure what that all consist of to do?
    Not quite sure exactly what your asking but, if you want the 120 and her the 100 then why not just swap the forks?

    However if you want to change the internals this video is exactly how to do it. Just make sure you you buy the proper airshaft for the Bluto and use the recommended oil levels for Bluto. You'll have to decide for yourself if your capable of doing the work. Good luck


  38. #238
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    A few rides with the Bluto and I have put my carbon Fatboy fork up for sale. Even a stiff Bluto is better than the carbon fork when trying to ride non groomed foot traffic trails.
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  39. #239
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    Would anyone out there with an RCT3 be able to help me out with a configuration issue? I have an RCT3 that I pulled out because my fluid levels were low. While I had it out, I started toying around with it and I must've screwed up the alignment of the lower compression plate. Right now, I'm getting full open, but lockout and "climb" seem to be pretty much the same (mostly locked out). When the compression is open ("descend"), the largest port on that lower plate (aluminum plate that lines up against the black plate with an opening on opposite sides) lines up perfectly, letting all of the fluid flow through, but when it's in middle and lockout, both have two holes (ports) showing- which is why (I think) it appears to perform the same in both positions. I just need to see what a stock one looks like so I can get it lined up correctly. Thanks!
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  41. #241
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    ^Yup. Actually picked up the kit a week or so ago with the intent of rebuilding, but haven't had any issues with stock setup yet, so have just left it alone.
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    Honestly, I can't imagine buying the ETR seal kit, as the coldest temp that I've ridden my Bluto with the stock seals has been somewhat -15-16 C (5 F) and that is as cold as I plan to ride. No issues in that temp.

    I do have changed the red sticky stock grease to Slick Honey and I'm currently running the fork with 5W Redline (and this is something that I recommend all the Bluto owners to do). So if one changes the stock grease to better one, selects the fork oil that suits the riding season and is ready to play around with the damping controls/fork pressure when it gets a bit colder, I see no issues using the stock seals.

    If you decide to change your oil to Redline, one thing to note is the Redline 5W's pour point that is in somewhere -20 C. Redline is a bit like water; viscosity does not change that much when the temperature goes down (at least not as much as most of the other fork oil brands), but when the temperature goes down enough, suddenly you don't have liquid anymore, but jell-o/vaseline. This means that if you stay above the pour point, you should be good to go, but if you go below, your fork will lock up.

    If you're interested in the behaviour of Redline oil, some guys in Finnish bicycle forum have been doing testing on different weights. The text is of course in Finnish, but you can see a couple of charts attached to the message. On the X-axis you have the temp of the oil before pouring and on Y-axis the time (in seconds) that how long it took for 10 ml of oil to go through a narrow syringe (without a piston, by gravity). Guys said that they kept all the oils in -21 through the night and only 2.5W and 5W were in liquid form in the morning, but there is some variation and debate on this as others have had a bit different results. Google Translator might or might not be your friend in case you want to read more from there.

  43. #243
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    I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.
    You have still the stock grease in the fork, I assume? Bluto, with the sticky stock grease, seems to have tendency to go out of balance of the air pressure between the upper and lower fork (solo air principle is that the fork should automatically balance this pressure). Air pressure goes to the lower leg, but doesn't balance back and this causes the sag to increase. I had the same, when I was running the stock setup, but problem went away after cleaning the stock grease out and putting Slick Honey in.

    If you don't want to change the grease yet, quick resolution is to take the hex screw out from the bottom of the fork in the air side and then to release the air pressure via schrader valve that can be found behind the screw (you need a narrow screwdriver or something similar to reach the valve). No need to take the tire off, just turn your bike upside down. Be careful that the air doesn't shoot the lower leg lubrication oil to your face

  45. #245
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    Thanks!

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.
    I had mine do that on a ride once and after letting all the air out of the upper and lower and pumping it back up it was fine and haven't had an issue since. Villho was spot on.

  47. #247
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    I have had this happen with other forks in the past. Unless it sticks down, it's usually not a problem.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    Honestly, I can't imagine buying the ETR seal kit, as the coldest temp that I've ridden my Bluto with the stock seals has been somewhat -15-16 C (5 F) and that is as cold as I plan to ride. No issues in that temp.

    I do have changed the red sticky stock grease to Slick Honey and I'm currently running the fork with 5W Redline (and this is something that I recommend all the Bluto owners to do). So if one changes the stock grease to better one, selects the fork oil that suits the riding season and is ready to play around with the damping controls/fork pressure when it gets a bit colder, I see no issues using the stock seals.
    Yeah- I don't think they're necessary unless you're having a problem. Turnagain even notes that some of the seals will be fine because the tolerance has a margin- so some are going to be fine in colder temps, while other seals/ o-rings may contract and let fluid and/or air seep through into the wrong chamber. I do think the Slick Honey helps the seals do their job a lot better, especially at colder temps, but next time I pull my fork apart, I'm going to swap the seals over just as a precautionary measure.
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  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    You have still the stock grease in the fork, I assume? Bluto, with the sticky stock grease, seems to have tendency to go out of balance of the air pressure between the upper and lower fork (solo air principle is that the fork should automatically balance this pressure). Air pressure goes to the lower leg, but doesn't balance back and this causes the sag to increase. I had the same, when I was running the stock setup, but problem went away after cleaning the stock grease out and putting Slick Honey in.

    If you don't want to change the grease yet, quick resolution is to take the hex screw out from the bottom of the fork in the air side and then to release the air pressure via schrader valve that can be found behind the screw (you need a narrow screwdriver or something similar to reach the valve). No need to take the tire off, just turn your bike upside down. Be careful that the air doesn't shoot the lower leg lubrication oil to your face

    There's two valves? My bluto collapsed entirely. I tried to air it up but it didn't work. Also tried to let out all air but alas the fork was stuck with about 50% travel remaining . I returned the fork to my lbs but even they couldn't fix it so they returned the fork to the manufacturer. Still is there.

  50. #250
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    ^ Yes there are, but you can't add any air from the bottom one, only take it out. As I said, a solo air fork works so that when you add the pressure from the top valve, the same pressure balances to the bottom as well. Ie. in solo air you (should) have always the same pressure on both sides, where in dual air you can decide the pressures separately depending on that what kind of behaviour you expect from your fork. Same pressure on both sides is in most cases good enough and solo air forks simplify reaching this with only one air valve.

    Now, in Bluto it seems that quite often too much air goes to the bottom and it doesn't balance back (I say this is due to the sticky stock grease). And too much air in the bottom means too much sag that you can't get back no matter how much air you try to pump to the top (or at least you will be out of any suitable pressure scales and the fork will feel shitty). Quick resolution is to take extra pressure out from the bottom and after this to check the pressure from the top again. Long term solution is ditching the sticky "PM800 military red grease" or whatever RS calls that **** and putting something more suitable in (eg Slick Honey).

    Taking the air out from the bottom is as easy I said; if you have a right size hex key, it will take less than a minute.

  51. #251
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    Thank you. If it happens again I will certainly try this.

  52. #252
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    Just finished installing a Bluto on my Farley 6 and reading through this thread. I bought the remote pushloc version since it was a lot cheaper than the crown adjust. After hooking up the cable and getting it working I noticed that the cable only pulls the adjuster cap about an eighth of a rotation. The fork does 'lockout' when the cable is released and compress when it's pulled but I wonder if it's fully opening? I can stick an allen wrench in the set screw and rotate the cap quite a bit more than the cable pulls it. Am I worried about nothing?

  53. #253
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    I haven't read through this entire thread, so my apologies if this has been covered. I'm a little frustrated & didn't feel like reading...

    Went out for the first time today with the Bluto & bottomed out a few times so i mostly rode locked out.

    When I got home I started to check the psi & add some air, but when I hooked up the pump it read 0... I pumped it up to the recommended psi for my weight & as soon as I unscrew the pump I hear the air coming out. Screw it back on & it reads zero... I tried googling & youtubing but i'm coming up with nothing. My LBS is closed so I can't get any other guidance until tomorrow & i'm impatient with my new toy.

    Yes, i'm an idiot & this is probably something i'm overlooking...
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  54. #254
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    Is the Schrader core tight?

  55. #255
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    I'd use some soapy water and see if you can track down where the air is leaking out. Likely suspects are the schrader valve, the hex bolt on bottom, or fork seals.
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  56. #256
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    I had this same problem when i first got my bluto. What it ended up being was a stuck schrader valve pin. The pump wasnt able to depress the needle in the schrader enough to let the air in, so the reading on the pump gauge was only the air in the hose of the pump, none actually got in the fork. I remember thinking, wow this is a low volume air chamber, since it came up to pressure so quick. But it still confused the hell out of me for a good hour or two till i figured it out.. Fully depress the pin a few times with an allen key and put a few drops of oil in there and try it again..

  57. #257
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    I had this same problem when i first got my bluto. What it ended up being was a stuck schrader valve pin. The pump wasnt able to depress the needle in the schrader enough to let the air in, so the reading on the pump gauge was only the air in the hose of the pump, none actually got in the fork. I remember thinking, wow this is a low volume air chamber, since it came up to pressure so quick. But it still confused the hell out of me for a good hour or two till i figured it out.. Fully depress the pin a few times with an allen key and put a few drops of oil in there and try it again..
    Thanks, I'll give this a shot.
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  58. #258
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    ^This. If you're hearing air leak out, it's likely that the valve core is loose. Tighten it up and try again. If you don't have a valve core tool, most automotive stores (which are open late) will have one, or you could try a pair of tweezers to snug it up.
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  59. #259
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    Here's another question...

    When working properly with the correct amount of psi, should I be able to just lean on the front of the bike & bottom the fork out? I'm a bigger guy, but if I do this on my Fuel w/ a Fox fork there's not a chance in hell I bottom it out. It feels much stiffer than the Bluto. I know this might be apples & oranges, but the Fuel was my first bike w/ suspension so that's what I have to compare it to...
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  60. #260
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    I'm maybe 170 geared up and found 2 tokens are needed to keep the


    bluto from blowing thru its travel.
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  61. #261
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    No. If you have the proper pressure in, and the compression opened up, you should be able to compress it maybe 2/3 of the way or so if you really press down hard and fast. You should not be able to bottom it out.
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  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVaz View Post
    Here's another question...

    When working properly with the correct amount of psi, should I be able to just lean on the front of the bike & bottom the fork out? I'm a bigger guy, but if I do this on my Fuel w/ a Fox fork there's not a chance in hell I bottom it out. It feels much stiffer than the Bluto. I know this might be apples & oranges, but the Fuel was my first bike w/ suspension so that's what I have to compare it to...
    I had this happen during a ride once, fugger just lost everything. Took it back to the lot pumped it up a little higher and same friggen thing. Tried one more time with an excessive amount of air took it out for a good thrashing and it pulled out of it, no idea what happened.

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    I'm maybe 170 geared up and found 2 tokens are needed to keep the


    bluto from blowing thru its travel.
    The 100 mm travel Bluto should come with 2 tokens installed. Bigger guys, or people that want to run lower air pressure and still keep from bottoming out put 1 or 2 more in.

  64. #264
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    The 120 version has no tokens stock.
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  65. #265
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    I weigh 75 kg (~150 lbs) and have 120 mm Bluto. To keep it nice and plush, I run it with low-ish pressure (~70 psi) and hence I have currently 3 tokens to avoid it from bottoming. This setup works well; the fork is at the same time plush with nice progression and the closest I've been able to get it to bottoming has been ~ 5 mm (small drop with bad landing).

    (And just for the record, I have RCT3 as well)

  66. #266
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    Villho- next time you pull your RCT3 damper out, would you mind looking at the lower plate and telling me how the holes in the aluminum plate line up against the black plate with the two opposite openings?

    I think I'm losing oil/ fluid in the damper side as I keep having to top off the oil on the damper side. Not sure how to remedy this (other than take it in for service).
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  67. #267
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Just some info on mine if anyone is looking at a similar set up.

    Bluto 120 on an On-One Fatty (66degree HTA with fork)

    Because of slacker HTA I can run higher pressure and stay smooth.

    I am 180lbs kitted up.
    Run 95lbs in fork. 0 tokens.
    12 psi front 9 psi rear tires.
    Also swapped red grease for slick honey. Stock damper as I have no complaints.

    Riding is mostly hardpack single track with lots of roots and rocks. 2-3 foot drops are not uncommon. I think I have only bottomed once. Plenty smooth for me.
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  68. #268
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    Anyone have a bottomless token or 2 they'd like to sell? Got a feeling I'd like to run lower air pressure for small bump compliance but ramp it up to keep from bottoming.

  69. #269
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    I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?

  70. #270
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ADKMTNBIKER View Post
    I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?
    I use a pipe cutter from the hardware store. Works perfect and smooth edges. Better than our park tool we had at the shop.
    The most freeride like fat bike I could make with available parts...

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADKMTNBIKER View Post
    I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?
    i use this
    Park Tool Co. » SG-6 : Threadless Saw Guide : Frame & Fork Tools
    and a regular metal saw

  72. #272
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    Pipe/tube cutter from Home Depot- just slowly increase the pressure when you cut and it won't flare and you end up with a smooth straight cut.

    If you need at move the star nut, a 1 ft section of M6 rod and a few washers/nuts works very well to pull it deeper in the tube.
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  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Pipe/tube cutter from Home Depot- just slowly increase the pressure when you cut and it won't flare and you end up with a smooth straight cut.

    If you need at move the star nut, a 1 ft section of M6 rod and a few washers/nuts works very well to pull it deeper in the tube.
    My wife really enjoyed your recommendation. Thanks for the advice

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_biker View Post
    I use a pipe cutter from the hardware store. Works perfect and smooth edges. Better than our park tool we had at the shop.
    Thanks for the advice.

  75. #275
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    Glad to see others are experimenting with their forks. From experience, I have experimented with changing the oil viscosity in the damper of my Reba and plan to also do on the Bluto.

    I found that keeping the viscosity the same (VS temperature) is the key to having the damping circuit work properly in low temps.

    In reviewing viscosity and temp, I found that 2.5w rock shox oil (at low temps) is the same viscosity as the 5w oil at 70deg.

    Note - oil weight and subsequent viscosity bear no semblance. They are all over the map but there are charts online that will tell you viscosity of various weight oils. Some having differing temperature reactions... just FYI.

    So, I have previously swapped oils around in my Reba for winter use and really liked the improvement.

    I also discovered the issue of fill level. If you look at the tolerance, it's +-2ml tolerance for amount of oil in damper. Too much, it locks out. Too little, I suspect it does not damp properly. To play it safe, overfill slightly - then remove 2ml of oil at a time till you get the proper amount of travel with no air in the air spring side. THIS IS KEY TO GETTING PROPER TRAVEL OF YOUR FORK. 2ml is NOT a lot and makes all the difference in a properly working damper.

    So, take that for what it's worth - another point of light.

    some prior math (for my Reba shock):

    Stock 5w Rock Shox viscosity @ 20 C is approx 37 cSt (a measure of viscosity)

    @ 0 C - 83 cSt! (ouch, much thicker)

    To achieve this with redline:

    Lightweight @ 0C = 49 cSt (still thicker.. but much better)


    But... using 2.5w Rock Shox @ 0 C = 31.95 cSt... might be a good choice for colder weather riding.. particularly below freezing.

    and even closer:

    Maxima Racing Shock Fluid (Light, 3wt) @ 0 C = 38 cSt


    So... just FYI, achieving a similar viscosity is possible with a bit of work. Kind of a PIA.. but for cold weather bumps, it might be worth the switch.
    Last edited by Maine_Rider; 02-05-2015 at 10:25 AM. Reason: fix wrong oil viscosities

  76. #276
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    Question...I was riding my new bluto for the first time the other night . Cold...like 10deg...fork compressed all the way down and totally lost pressure. I Aires it back up after getting home...160psi...the fork isn't nearly as tall as it was...can barley see the 80mm on the fork but could easily see the 100mm before. Any advice???

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavedweller32 View Post
    Question...I was riding my new bluto for the first time the other night . Cold...like 10deg...fork compressed all the way down and totally lost pressure. I Aires it back up after getting home...160psi...the fork isn't nearly as tall as it was...can barley see the 80mm on the fork but could easily see the 100mm before. Any advice???
    Read through this thread, somewhere it talks about all the air going to the negative side and how to fix it. Pretty simple fix.

  78. #278
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    Yup...took the air out of the top then out of the bottom....aired it up and fork popped back up to normal. Thanks! Slick Honey in the mail.

  79. #279
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    I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastman115 View Post
    I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.
    Boxers or briefs?

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastman115 View Post
    I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.
    I have the lock...use it quite a bit compared to my FS rig...you want all the stiff you can get when cranking uphill so I constantly use the lockout. It's according to preference and type of riding you do.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastman115 View Post
    I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.
    I bought a remote lock version since it was a lot cheaper than the regular one and haven't had any issues yet. It's easy to convert to the regular type if you find you don't like it. Just pull the damper up out of the right side tube and use a pick or screwdriver to dislodge the spring in the middle a couple of turns. Then you can turn the cap by hand and it'll stay where you turn it. Just put an oring under the cap. I think it's written up with pics somewhere in this thread.

  83. #283
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    Everywhere I've seen the remote version cost $50+ more.
    I dont really see the point in it either. I'll take the ability to adjust the damper a few clicks version all or nothing. I run it full open descending, halfway most the time on rolling terrain and almost locked for the beach.
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  84. #284
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    Any extra trigger on my bars is reserved for a dropper post.

    Never needed a remote lockout, but then again SoCal and NorCal trails generally telegraphed their long fire road climbs well in advance, easy to reach down.

    I could see it for one of those forks with adjustable travel - push it out to 150m to descend, tighten up to 110mm to climb - but that's not in the fatty cards for a while I'd guess.

  85. #285
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    Post deleted, not beneficial to the thread
    Cheers,
    FGO
    Last edited by Father Guzzi Obrian; 02-09-2015 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Not helpful

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavedweller32 View Post
    Yup...took the air out of the top then out of the bottom....aired it up and fork popped back up to normal. Thanks! Slick Honey in the mail.
    So unfortunately I've been hit with the same issue where I've lost travel after a cold weather ride. I've read through the whole thread and am still not able to fix it.

    If I interpreted it properly, the procedure is to:
    1. Remove top air cover and release all pressure (non drive side)
    2. Remove bottom 5mm bolt on same side of fork (non drive side)
    3. Try to press in on schrader valve on bottom (this is where I get stuck)


    For the life of me, I can't figure out why the bottom schrader valve won't push in to release the negative pressure.

    Am I doing the right things? Any ideas?

    Thanks!

  87. #287
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    My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.

  88. #288
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    My google-fu is fubar. Anyone have a source for tokens? LBS tried to sell me pike tokens, so not going back to them.

  89. #289
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    Look part way down the page you will see em for 32mm forks, the black ones.

    Universal Cycles -- Rock Shox Bottomless Token Spacers

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishpeming View Post
    My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.
    I guess I may have to do that too. Called LBS and they talked about different weight oils and other solutions. To me, it sounds like the Turnagain kit has done the trick for enough that it seems like a fairly safe bet. I tried to loosen the bottom bolt and took a couple of light hits to it but it didn't seem to do anything. If anyone has other ideas, I'd love to hear them!

    Overall, it's just a bummer that a $600 fork built for fat bikes (often ridden in the winter), has this problem. I can only imagine that the problem will continue to grow as more and more start riding with Bluto.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishpeming View Post
    My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.
    Is the modification using the kit an easy one?
    Can any bike mechanic do it; or does it require a mechanic with special skills?

  92. #292
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    Mine has been awesome down to - single digits f with just the slick honey upgrade.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Mine has been awesome down to - single digits f with just the slick honey upgrade.
    Ditto- mine appears to work at temps that I quit at.
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  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    I guess I may have to do that too. Called LBS and they talked about different weight oils and other solutions. To me, it sounds like the Turnagain kit has done the trick for enough that it seems like a fairly safe bet. I tried to loosen the bottom bolt and took a couple of light hits to it but it didn't seem to do anything. If anyone has other ideas, I'd love to hear them!

    Overall, it's just a bummer that a $600 fork built for fat bikes (often ridden in the winter), has this problem. I can only imagine that the problem will continue to grow as more and more start riding with Bluto.
    So just a quick follow-up to my post: With the bike upside down and the pressure already released from the typical (only) inflation valve, I was able to loosen the nut halfway. With light to moderate hammering on the 5mm bit/socket extension still in the half loosened nut, the air pressure did let go. From there, I was able to repressurize just a little bit (to roughly 40 psi) using the normal valve, get the nut back on and tightened, and continue the inflation from the normal valve. I will note that I did finish off the task by manually pulling the fork to its maximum extension (apparently the point where the fork auto equalizes the pressure).

    I certainly can't say for sure if this is the perfect way to do it, but it worked for me and I was able to go back out and ride in 20 degrees F without any issues. (the issues started last time at 3 deg F).

    Thanks all who posted comments that helped with this temporary resolution. I'm still likely to install the turnagain seals because I want to be able to ride in all conditions.
    Last edited by Higgins17; 02-25-2015 at 09:47 PM.

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    We the people ...

    I don't believe changing the seals will resolve this problem but I believe slick honey comes with the kit and that will. I think it has something to do with the grease plugging up the orifice the equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg side. I could be wrong altogether though

    Edit, I guess it could be the air seal shrinking to much in the cold and letting to much air into the negative side but I haven't had this issue in the cold with the standard seals.

    Oh and I'm not sure why you are beating on anything, you take the bolt out and the valve is under it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bluto Tuning Thread-solo-air_4.jpg  


  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I don't believe changing the seals will resolve this problem but I believe slick honey comes with the kit and that will. I think it has something to do with the grease plugging up the orifice the equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg side. I could be wrong altogether though

    Edit, I guess it could be the air seal shrinking to much in the cold and letting to much air into the negative side but I haven't had this issue in the cold with the standard seals.

    Oh and I'm not sure why you are beating on anything, you take the bolt out and the valve is under it.
    Definitely! My first go around was to remove the nut completely and lightly press on that valve with a hex tool. Perhaps if I had pressed harder it would have released the pressure, but I was concerned about bending or breaking the valve, especially given that the schrader on the top of the shock is so easy to press. Can you confirm that's worked for you?

    P.S. - thanks for the tip on the slick honey. Looks like people swear by that stuff!

    Edit: Just wanted to mention that I didn't make up the beating on the nut piece. There were a couple of videos around including the , where they use light tapping to free up the lowers. I haven't had a ton of experience working on forks but I had to ride tonight!

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    Yeah that is correct to take the lowers off you loosen that bolt and tap on it. I guess it would also release the pressure as well.

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    The only reason, why someone would tap the bottom nut/screw, is to take lowers off, as said in the thread. Of course it will also release the pressure from the negative side, but if there is a valve for that, why not to use that.

    And no, there is no reason to release the pressure from the top, to release the pressure from the bottom. Actually, I think it's better to keep the pressure in the top, as then the fork pops right back up to the full lenght, when you release the pressure from the negative side (ie. bottom). Then you at least know that you have done it correctly.

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    I must be one of the lucky ones because I have ridden in 3 degrees and have not had a single issue.........but I have done quite a few mods to date with the exception of the turnagain mod..slick honey and 7.5 wt being the most beneficial

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat907 View Post
    I must be one of the lucky ones because I have ridden in 3 degrees and have not had a single issue.........but I have done quite a few mods to date with the exception of the turnagain mod..slick honey and 7.5 wt being the most beneficial
    Well, I have neither had any issues since Slick Honey. I'm running my Bluto also with 2014 Sid RCT3 comp/reb internals + RedLine 5W.

  101. #301
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    I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat907 View Post
    I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference
    Reb with dig valve - probably yes, but I do like RCT3 comp damper more than the regular Bluto damper.
    Last edited by villho; 02-26-2015 at 11:39 AM.

  103. #303
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    Just picked up the RCT3 for my Bluto. Is it just a straight damper swap or do I need to make an adjustment to the fluid level? Thanks
    Laziness Breeds Efficiency

  104. #304
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    Should be same fluid level, but some fluid will come out with your old damper, so it's worth checking the depth/ volume before you put the RCT3 in.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

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    If one doesn't have a proper measure to check the liquid level, a quick method to test the correct fluid level is this:
    - If you are able to lock the fork, you should have enough fluid (and vice versa: if it doesn't lock, you might miss some fluid. Note here, there have been cases that playing around with the damper has caused the shim stack to move so that the lock-up doesn't work well)
    - And when you have the damper in the fork and also the "nut ring" for lock-up lever tightened, but no air in yet, you can try to push the fork in carefully. If you are able to bottom out the fork, you know that you dont have too much liquid (and vice versa: if the fork doesn't bottom, but stops before that, you might have too much liquid).

  106. #306
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    Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
    Thanks!

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    Sound like the same ole trouble of to much air in the negative side. Read through the thread and it will explain how to fix this problem. Worth a shot it only takes a couple of minutes to try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.

    Last weekend I took mine apart and cleaned off the gooey, sticky red grease and lubed it up with Slick Honey. I also added 1 token for a total of 3 in a 100mm Bluto so I could run lower pressure but still have good bottoming resistance. Awesome improvement! I didn't change the oil in the other side since it's new and will be warming up soon. Maybe next winter.

    BTW, I have 3 tokens left over. PM me if anyone wants them.

  109. #309
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    Re: Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chriskmurray View Post
    Be sure to play with the air tokens, if you are not getting full travel try removing a token. The more tokens you have in the air side of your fork the more the air spring ramps up through the travel.

    Also if you are really picky about your suspension, you can actually run the RCT3 damper in the Bluto over the stock damper. You will have to play around to find the right oil volumes though.
    Apparently, there is Bluto RCT3 coming. But as I'm new to rockshox, what is the difference between between the current damper and the RCT3 damper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.

  111. #311
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    Thanks,
    And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
    Cheers,

  112. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    You're right but you're always going to have people who won't read through 13 or however many pages to get the info they're looking for. I was feeling generous. ....

  113. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    Thanks,
    And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
    Cheers,
    I'm no expert, but from reading this thread it seems to be a cold related issue. Usually doesn't recur.
    I'm surprised it happened to you since the fork was just serviced. Did you try the fix yet? If it doesn't work I'd take it back to the LBS.

  114. #314
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    Just released the pressure from the bottom, worked very well, now have full travel with 20% sag set up. The reading really helped clarify what the issue was. Thanks again!

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    This is one thread that is worth a read through for sure, good stuff inside!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.
    I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
    Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)

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  117. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
    Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)

    -F
    You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?

  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find. A little FAQ would be helful, esp since the Bluto is the only "decent" fork we have so far. Sure, they could use search, but it's so generic...

    For my part, I ride an 80mm Bluto stock with four tokens, typically run 115psi, I weigh 200#, this seems to work well for me, I don't generally bottom the fork, but I use most of the travel when I ride dirt. My Bluto is stock, works fine, no stiction, holds air when cold, only issue is loss of pressure when I go from a warm garage to a cold ride.

    The key is to air up the fork and tires at the trail

    On a hard tail, I don't know that having 120mm of travel would be all that worthwhile, esp with fat tires, seems like 80-100mm is the sweet spot.

    I'm building a Mutz, that bike will get a Bluto 120mm to match the 120mm Cane In Line, it will be running 650b+ much of the year, so not a true fat except in the dead of winter.

    I'm also building a Jefe tandem fat, it'll be getting a Bluto 100mm, likely running four tokens due to the extra weight from two riders. Since this is a "heavy use" for the Bluto, I'll be looking to upgrade when the "pluto" makes it's debut.

  119. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find.
    Nope a hint on where to find it should be enough, shouldn't have to go into full detail on every other page. I dig through threads all the time for research and 13 pages isn't a lot.

  120. #320
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    Maybe I'm not picky, but I've never had to mess with my Bluto. I have the 120mm version, added to tokens since I was bottoming out alot, and just ride. warm, cold, snow mud, it just works and I'm happy. I ride my fatbike like an aggressive all-mountain hardtail though, so my results my be different than people who do snowy xc rides.

    I ride a lot of rough, jumps and drops and I wouldnt want anything less than 120mm. To me 80mm for anything more than groomed snow and gravel roads would suck,. If Rockshox releases a Pike based version in the 150mm range I'd be all over that!
    20 SJ Evo 29, 17 Whyte T130, 18 Giant Glory Advanced

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.

    You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.

  122. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by borgey007 View Post
    Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.

    You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.
    This wasn't about different perspectives it was instructions on how to relieve the air pressure in the negative chamber. Keep quoting something and the original reason it was said kinda goes away and one can twist it in any direction you want.

    Edit: and if you would have been paying attention you will notice I said to look back in the thread to learn about this. If one would do this they would also learn more about why this is happening and other peoples experience with the same problem. Instead they just got told how to fix it.

  123. #323
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    You nailed it Bob......I for one would like to know why the problem exists not just the cure

  124. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?
    Yes. Thanks for the tip! Bikesdirect CS quoted the method from this thread. That's how the internet should be used.

    -F
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  125. #325
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    I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
    Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
    One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
    Thanks,

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
    Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
    One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
    Thanks,
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
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  127. #327
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    Spent a good bit of time talking to SRAM guys at NAHBS about tuning my Bluto. Going to pick up some tokens so I can mess with the volume a bit, and will possibly make the change to the RCT3 damper once things dry out and I can really put it through its paces. FWIW, I was told that not too far into the future (possibly sometime in 2015 or later for the 2016MY), all Blutos will come with the RCT3 damper.

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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
    Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.

    Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.

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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction).


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    Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.

    Thx

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    5ml of 15wt per leg.

    It's in the service manual

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.

    Thx
    Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VBoothe View Post
    5ml of 15wt per leg.

    It's in the service manual

    Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.

  134. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.
    Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete

  135. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete
    I just used some 15wt Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil I had in the garage.

  136. #336
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    One of the easiest forks I have ever taken apart.................

  137. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.
    I usually always take new forks apart just to make sure there is the right amount of oil in them.

    However.....I did not do this with my Bluto....but it has been working fine. I will take it apart in the next few weeks to change fluids and check things out.

    A friend got a Bluto and complained that it blew through travel and the lock out wouldn't work. I opened it up and it was low on oil.. Once brought up to specs....it works fine.

  138. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.

    Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction).


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    So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
    It was brand new. 2nd ride.
    I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
    I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.

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  139. #339
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    I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.

  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.
    I finally read this entire thread. The pressure seeping to the negative chamber is NOT entirely temperature dependent. It is more likely a factor of the gooey red grease clogging things up.

    I may just squirt a thimbleful of alcohol or WD-40 down there to see if that cuts the grease a little. With my luck, if I took my fork apart it would end up with dog hair in it or something.

    -F
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  141. #341
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    Great thread with lots of good info.
    I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?

  142. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Great thread with lots of good info.
    I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?
    If your current hub is 135mm, then the Hauck kit is the cheapest way to go. You'll have to run a 180mm disc though. If your current fork is a 1 1/2 to 1 1/8 taper you could remove the crown race from it and put it on the Bluto. Probably easier to just get a new one. They're only about $10. You'll need a hacksaw or tube cutter to cut the Bluto steerer tube to length also. Measure 10 times, cut once!

    Edit: Doesn't your bike already have a 150mm hub?

  143. #343
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    No, they have a 142 through axle hub.

  144. #344
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    Will I need a crown race setting tool?

  145. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Will I need a crown race setting tool?
    Depends on your crown race. Split race and no need for any tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    No, they have a 142 through axle hub.
    I assume it's 135mm with the end caps removed? If so, then the Hauck spacers will work.
    I just used a piece of pvc pipe and carefully tapped the race on the Bluto.
    Salsa hub, right?

  147. #347
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    Yes Salsa hub.

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    You should be good to go then. You can get the Hauck kit on ebay for $40. Disc adapter included.

  149. #349
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    Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.
    Yuppers!!

  151. #351
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    I have a quick question and haven't been able to find a definitive answer by searching.
    On my Bluto 100mm, The first 2 or 3mm of travel, I have very little resistance. They everything acts as normal. I have read this is normal because of the air piston, but also that the fork my be low on oil.

    So is it normal and if not, what should I be looking at?

  152. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
    It was brand new. 2nd ride.
    I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
    I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.

    -F
    I refused to work on a brand new fork so my shop handled it with RockShox.
    My fork ended up with new air guts. The parts were free, but not the service (thanks, RS).
    There was not an excessive amount of red grease in it, and it had never been exposed to sub-zero (F) temps, yet it never worked right.
    Laying new next to "old" they appeared to be the same.

    The fork "works" now, but I will likely fiddle with some tokens to prevent blowing through the travel.



    As far as that oil question, I think it's the air that holds up your fork, not the oil. My fork seems to have almost like freeplay in that first 3mm or so as well.

    -F
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  153. #353
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    After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.

    Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.

    What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.

  154. #354
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    The stiction was bothering me but I didn't want to pull the fork apart until the dampers came back in stock.

    Instead I pulled the air cap off and put a little 20 weight Fox black gold stanchion lube oil in. It mixed with the grease to make a slurry that is slowly seeping past the seals to the lube the bottom. I put some slick honey on the volume reducers figuring it'll get knocked off from riding and drop onto the piston from time to time.

    Its now working well enough that I decided not to do the damper upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.

    Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.

    What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.
    Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    T

    Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go!
    https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...to_reba_sm.pdf

    First page of the discussion has a link to the manual. It's pretty detailed. Aside from the specifics related to each damper, everything else seems to be the same. General suggestion seems to be to slightly overfill the oil when reinstalling, and remove little by little until the damper works correctly. But the specific amounts seem to line up exactly the same as the instructions say for the RL damper. As for the grease, the instructions cover how to clean off the old, and where to put the new. If you've done fork service before, it shouldn't be a problem. I've done Fox forks before when changing the wipers/seals to Enduro ones. Speaking of which, it's time to do that to my old Fox on my other mtb again.

  157. #357
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    About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.

    FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.

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    So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?

    Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...

    Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?

  159. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?

    Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...

    Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?
    I hear tell that for 2016, the Bluto will come with the RCT3 damper stock...or will at least come in a version that includes it.

    The people doing lots of fiddling are picky about performance. A lot of people probably wouldn't care about some of the stuff people here are working on tuning out.

    The tuning options on RS forks are actually a good thing. People can get it how they like it.

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    Gotcha. So I guess there's some benefit to waiting. Maybe I was just fabricating an air of frustration rather than an air of extreme iterative enthusiasm :P.

  161. #361
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    I ride my Fatboy real aggressive on trails, and I have zero complaints about the Bluto. Add a couple tokens, get the pressure right (like any fork) and it is a great fork. With a huge tire up front it doesnt even need to be as smooth feeling as a Pike, it just needs to work. Not sure what all the complaining is about.
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    Sweet.

    So from your perspective as a bluto owner, if I'm picking up a stock Fatboy SE and have around 600-700 to put into it (financing, might as well lump it in for 0% interest and I'd budgeted for the base fatboy which I don't want really) should I just grab the Bluto along with the bike and wait on the rest (besides tubeless)?

    My wife is cool with me trickling money into stuff over time, but large purchases are harder to sell and I won't want to regret not going bluto. So I could conceivably just hang onto it and pick up a 150mm hub a few weeks later even...

    If I didn't go bluto I was thinking of putting the money into front/rear surly Buds (our trails are very often slick or muddy here because of frequent rain), a new lightweight seatpost and saddle, 1x10 with big rear chainrings (lots of steep crap here), and shimano brakes and rotors. Not sure if Bluto and Tubeless off the bat would be better, then trickle that other stuff in.

  163. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.

    FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.
    Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
    Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.

  164. #364
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    A bluto is by far the best upgrade I've done to my fatboy. It now has a dropper, tubeless, 1x drive train and SLX brakes and rotors, but Id take the Bluto over all that.
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  165. #365
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    I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.

  166. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
    Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.
    The guy I spoke to wasn't a suspension tech, so there's that. Also, he specifically said 25hr instead of 50hr, which after looking at the manual, is pretty much just a fluid change. Considering that the recommended service intervals are usually pretty conservative anyway, I'm not worried.
    Last edited by Harold; 05-29-2015 at 08:23 PM.

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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.
    Definitely agree with this. I have the Bluto on my dropper equipped Beargrease XX1 and it makes it a much better summer trail bike.

    My next move is to try a 29+ wheelset on the Beargrease/Bluto combo.

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    Well, hell, I'm convinced. As much as I hate to do it...

    Now if I can just figure out if there's a 135mm thru hub I can use with adapters to have fork flexibility to go rigid or bluto with the same wheel... (planning on split tubeless).

  169. #369
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    2 buddies and I all thought the same thing, but once you get the Bluto, you lose all desire to go back to rigid!
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    How much travel did you all get?

    Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....

    But I also have a monstercross bike if I want cross country geo and small tires! I'm 6'4" and 250 though so it's not the coziest ride.

    I'm going to feel real goofy if I blow the accessory budget on the bluto and leave the horrible mechanicals on there...but I guess I can hold out until my birthday for better brakes!

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    Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.

  172. #372
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    Finished everything up this evening and got the new settings to a starting point. Very intriguing that by changing the damper, changing the grease, and using 7.5wt oil instead of 5wt oil, I'm using 70psi to get 20% sag, whereas previously, I was using 100psi. I have 3 tokens installed, and have been using 3 tokens for awhile. I did not change the number of tokens when I changed the damper.

    Just in the yard, small bump compliance is WAY nicer. Very pleased with the results.

    FWIW, the language in the tech docs can be a little misleading. When choosing the oil volume for the damper side, I used the oil height instead of volume. I don't have a good way to directly measure oil volume. The syringe I was using is old and the volume marks are worn off. I have a small tape measure that has a metric scale, so that was easier. I measured 75mm using the tape as a dipstick. Which directly measures the HEIGHT OF THE OIL in the fork. The damper wasn't doing anything. I racked my brain all day on this. I watched a bunch of vids, and I saw an older one where the RockShox tech measured the oil in a big graduated cylinder.

    So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.

    Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!

    Curious, I figured I'd measure the amount of empty space inside the fork. It didn't really coincide with the 71-77mm measurement, either, so I'm not quite sure what the doc is referring to. Going by volume is the way to go.

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    Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?

  174. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?
    I probably should have done a good dipstick measurement of the oil level, too, but I did not. I just checked the space to the top, and it was in the ~50mL neighborhood. It was hard to get an accurate measurement because it was hard to see when my measuring tape began to touch the top of the oil.

    At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.

  175. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post

    At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.
    Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?
    Yep. The "pedal" setting is noticeably different, but still firmer than the "open" setting.

    It's probably a little firmer than I typically like, to be honest. I'll probably use THAT setting for long, grinding climbs and keep it open mostly otherwise. I'll be fiddling with the low speed adjustment a bit to see what I like on the trail.

  177. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.

    Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!Name:  oilheight.png
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    Great write up on this man! ^^^^
    Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!
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    Pyrex Griffin beakers are 5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is 0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.


    IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.
    Last edited by CurtP; 05-31-2015 at 08:55 AM.

  179. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Great write up on this man! ^^^^
    Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!
    I used the extra seal kit that came with my Bluto. It has the foam washers and the wipers have little pockets for grease to keep things well lubricated. The stock seals/wipers work fine for me so far.

    I did run across this, and I'm intrigued by the concept.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...6/the-sentinel

    As for how much oil, I think you misunderstood me. I used 106mL, as stated in the documents. Going by "oil height" measured with the dipstick method resulted in far too little oil. Less than half of the required 106mL.

  180. #380
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    How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.
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  181. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by soarftb View Post
    How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.
    The idea behind suspension on a fatbike is that it negates some of the bouncing you get from fat tires. I have a Bucksaw, so I get that benefit both front and rear. So it adds to the cushion you get from fat tires, while also negating some of the negatives you get from fat tires.

    I never owned a rigid fatbike so I can't say much regarding tire pressures before and after. I can say that at higher pressures, the bouncing of fat tires in tech terrain can suck on a rigid bike, and is part of why rigid fatbike riders will ride pressures so low, even in summer. I have settled on about 9-9.5 psi for hardpack conditions with suspension. I can haul on the downhills without any self steer, but have enough cush for the bumps.

    FWIW, I had installed a 3rd token in my Bluto prior to my damper upgrade. I think I'm going to pull that token back out, and go back to 2 tokens. I'm getting absolutely fantastic small bump compliance, but full travel isn't really there for me when I have bigger hits, even with the fork fully opened up.

  182. #382
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    So curious, I just bought a bike with a Bluto on it, and it is my first suspension fork. Until now I've always run rigid forks.

    I do all of my own service on my bikes, but reading the Bluto service manual, it's way different than anything I've ever done.

    Out of the box, is there anything that is totally necessary to ensure a functional and long lasting fork?

  183. #383
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    One tip: wipe the stanchions down after every ride. You don't want to let some grit scratch the seals.

  184. #384
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    Bluto is a really simple fork, watch a couple of Youtubes videos on how to service them to get an idea of their internals.

    But mainly just make sure you have the right air pressure for your weight, and the rebound is set correctly, other than that, ride ride ride!
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  185. #385
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    What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.

  186. #386
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    It's personal preference but obviously having it maxed out on slow or fast can be pretty gnarly if riding hard.

    Think i have mine 4 clicks from the slow setting.
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  187. #387
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    Ok thanks, I have mine at 3 clicks from slow. Was just wondering about ballpark setting to start from, I know so many that buy their bike and what ever setting it's at from the factory they leave it at that thinking it's good to go.

  188. #388
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    Overall i don't notice my Bluto while riding which is great because that means it's working well.

    From the factory it was maxed out rebound on fast setting haha, it was a pogo stick!
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  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.
    You need to figure that out for yourself. Depends too much on your preferences, your riding style, and where you ride. I have mine set at 4 clicks from the fast setting.

  190. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    How much travel did you all get?

    Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....

    But I also have a monstercross bike if I want cross country geo and small tires! I'm 6'4" and 250 though so it's not the coziest ride.

    I'm going to feel real goofy if I blow the accessory budget on the bluto and leave the horrible mechanicals on there...but I guess I can hold out until my birthday for better brakes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.
    the Fatboy Pro comes stock with a an 80 MM travel Bluto....120 is going to feel a lot more slack, will raise the front end a bunch, and may void your frame warranty....

    The Geo will definitely feel different.
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    2017 Trek Farley 9.6

  191. #391
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    Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it.

    Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks!

  192. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it.

    Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks!
    Use a big syringe with graduated markings. Or, a small one and transfer the fluid to a container with appropriate markings. But yeah, you have to take it apart to check fluid levels.

  193. #393
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    After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube.

    Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!

    I'm figuring on not having to take everything apart. Just remove the top caps, pull the compression damper out and pull the rebound damper down right? The air side looks easy enough to just pull out, wipe down, and regrease.

    Pardon me if I'm still missing something.

  194. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube.

    Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!

    I'm figuring on not having to take everything apart. Just remove the top caps, pull the compression damper out and pull the rebound damper down right? The air side looks easy enough to just pull out, wipe down, and regrease.

    Pardon me if I'm still missing something.
    If all you want to do is check the damper fluid level, then all you need to do is pull the right side top cap and measure the fluid. Keep in mind, however, that there is also a little fluid in the bottom of each leg, and you won't be able to check it this way. In fact, I don't think you can "just check" the amounts of that oil without draining it and replacing it.

    Also, if you're talking about replacing the grease, you will probably want to pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft, because those items are also greased. And for doing the grease, you can't even replace the grease on the wipers unless you pull the lowers off (and drain the fluid in the bottom of the lowers). And at that point, you might as well pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft because you've already done 3/4 of the work.

    I was pretty hesitant the first time I pulled apart a fork (a 2003 Fox Float RL). It was unfamiliar, but not difficult. I think the Bluto is actually a bit easier in some respects. Just keep things clean, and be careful not to nick or damage anything that slides or seals.

  195. #395
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    Thanks for the info. My biggest concern as you mentioned is nicking or scratching something important. I'm pretty confident in being able to pull it all apart and line everything back up.

    The air side looks easier and I had planned to totally take that apart.

    The oil side looked like I'd be able to just depress the rebound damper all the way and dump the oil out, but if I'm tearing it apart I might as well go all the way.

    I pretty much figured on dumping all the oil and just replacing it with the correct amount so I know that it's at the right level.

  196. #396
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    Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?
    Last edited by Shinkers; 06-16-2015 at 10:04 PM.

  197. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?
    If it's a new bike/shock, then no. I rode my new Bluto for a few rides and then tore it down and removed the red goo they call grease and lubed it back up with Slick Honey and reused the original parts. The fork came with a rebuild kit, but I saved that for when it needs it.

  198. #398
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    Okay. It is a new bike.

  199. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay. It is a new bike.
    I debated on it for mine. I probably didn't HAVE to, but I wanted to make sure I assembled it exactly correctly, with new crush washers. I cracked into the included seal kit for the crush washers, and figured I'd go ahead and replace all the o-rings anyway, since I had put about 400mi on the fork already.

  200. #400
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    I probably had less than 30 miles on mine.

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