Black Shoe Goo for tire repairs.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Oslo, Norway
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    Black Shoe Goo for tire repairs.

    After countless hours of riding my Snowshoe ''3XL'' 5.6's at 0-1psi, I noticed that the side knobs on the rear nondrive side were starting to separate from the casing, with one knob actually gone.
    As far as I know, these are two of only three such tires in existence, so I didn't feel like watching them fall apart.

    I have used superglue and Shoe Goo to repair tires since the first time I laid my hands on the Goo back in Utah in the mid 90s.
    Having only used the clear Goo, I had decent results, but it tended not to last to long, sort of flaked off after a while. First I did a test with super glue only, but that did not last more than a few minutes, as the side knobs see a lot of stress and would start to shear. I realized that I needed to smooth/minimize the stress riser at the interface.

    Enter black Shoe Goo.
    I first used super glue to secure the edge of the knobs that were starting to separate and then covered with black Shoe Goo to reduce the shear stresses at the knob/sidewall interface.

    This worked like gold, as we say over on these Nordic shores.
    Did the fix last weekend and have by now 20 hours + at 0-2psi riding on them, and the knobs are staying right where the boys at Vee put them.
    Very, very relieved, as these tires are pretty much irreplaceable.
    The secret is, as far as I can tell, that the black Shoe Goo has a more liquid like consistency than the clear version and it seems to stick much better to rubber than the clear stuff.
    Could probably be used to reinforce sidewalls that are starting to show a lot of cord as well.

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  2. #2
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    That sort of info is pure gold. Thanks
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Any bike, anywhere, anytime.
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  3. #3
    beer thief
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    Shoe Goo is awesome stuff. I did not know they made a black version. Thanks Espen!

  4. #4
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    I used to use shoe goo for outer tire repairs after patching inside holes. But now I have switched to liquid electrical tape that brushes on and it works and holds up much better

  5. #5
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    What bike/ fork allows you to use a 5.6" tire? That sounds pretty cool. I am jealous.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    What bike/ fork allows you to use a 5.6" tire? That sounds pretty cool. I am jealous.
    Well, a few..
    Look in the 2xl thread
    There's a few custom ones in existence made for 5.6 size and I think Espen still runs a prototype that is capable of fitting that.

    Also new this year is "Diamant x2" that is 5.6" capable.

  7. #7
    Oslo, Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilboy View Post
    I used to use shoe goo for outer tire repairs after patching inside holes. But now I have switched to liquid electrical tape that brushes on and it works and holds up much better
    That is interesting!
    Do you use brushable Plasti Dip, Permatex or another brand?

    Did you us the clear Shoe Goo or the black one?

  8. #8
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    Has anyone had trouble with Shoe Goo not bonding to tires? I decided to reinforce the lugs of a Dunderbeist after installing grip studs in last winter, but it doesn't appear any of it stuck to the tire (still bonded to the studs though). The studs seem firmly anchored so I probably don't need the reinforcement, but I'd rather not start losing them. I suspect part or all of my problem was in applying the adhesive to a brand new tire which likely was covered in mold release agent. Before I go to the trouble of pull off the old stuff and re-gluing I figure I should see what other people's experience has been.

    I was also wondering if I should prep the surface with a vulcanizing chemical to improve bonding. I believe naphtha is used in rubber cement for that purpose. The MSDS for Plasti Dip shows naphtha, and Shoe Goo doesn't. So maybe Plasti Dip / Liquid Tape would bond better without any special prep beyond cleaning.

  9. #9
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    You may wish to test using the rubber-toughened 'super-glue'. It's said to have the most grip of the 'super-glues' and some flexibility, so it doesn't fracture like standard super-glue.

    The first I saw was this product. Locktite (available branded LePage in Canada)
    https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/p...elcontrol.html

    Just now, google gave me other rubber-toughened CAs, including this one
    https://www.starbond.com/black-mediu...ue-ke-150.html
    "High Impact Rubber Toughened Formula. Great for bonding RC car tires"

    and this link
    https://chemicalwiki.com/best-glue-for-rubber/
    Their top pick was "3M 08008 Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive".
    "Fast drying, strong, flexible, rubbery adhesive
    Withstands vibration and extreme temperature variation
    Good oil and water resistance"
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  10. #10
    Oslo, Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by gecho View Post
    Has anyone had trouble with Shoe Goo not bonding to tires? I decided to reinforce the lugs of a Dunderbeist after installing grip studs in last winter, but it doesn't appear any of it stuck to the tire (still bonded to the studs though). The studs seem firmly anchored so I probably don't need the reinforcement, but I'd rather not start losing them. I suspect part or all of my problem was in applying the adhesive to a brand new tire which likely was covered in mold release agent. Before I go to the trouble of pull off the old stuff and re-gluing I figure I should see what other people's experience has been.

    I was also wondering if I should prep the surface with a vulcanizing chemical to improve bonding. I believe naphtha is used in rubber cement for that purpose. The MSDS for Plasti Dip shows naphtha, and Shoe Goo doesn't. So maybe Plasti Dip / Liquid Tape would bond better without any special prep beyond cleaning.
    New tires will be covered in silicone (mold release agent, so it will be hard to make anything stick.
    Ride them for a few miles (on gravel or dirt) or use a chemical:
    Wax and grease remover (the type used before spray painting) is likely the best for removing silicone. In fact, it is called ''silicone remover'' over here (Europe).
    You could likely also use rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner with good results.

    BTW, on the Shoe Goo itself: I have found that the black type hardens more than the clear one, so the clear type seems to work better, contrary to what I claimed initially...

  11. #11
    Oslo, Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    You may wish to test using the rubber-toughened 'super-glue'. It's said to have the most grip of the 'super-glues' and some flexibility, so it doesn't fracture like standard super-glue.

    The first I saw was this product. Locktite (available branded LePage in Canada)
    https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/p...elcontrol.html

    Just now, google gave me other rubber-toughened CAs, including this one
    https://www.starbond.com/black-mediu...ue-ke-150.html
    "High Impact Rubber Toughened Formula. Great for bonding RC car tires"

    and this link
    https://chemicalwiki.com/best-glue-for-rubber/
    Their top pick was "3M 08008 Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive".
    "Fast drying, strong, flexible, rubbery adhesive
    Withstands vibration and extreme temperature variation
    Good oil and water resistance"
    The rubber reinforced Loctite 480 is good stuff.
    Great for sealing small punctures, etc.
    Over here (Norway), it is vastly overpriced at $70 for a 20g bottle, but I get it on Ebay for less than $7 including shipping. It is the real deal (at least the ones that I have received)
    ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=loctite+480&_sacat=0&_sop=15

  12. #12
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    I've been using shoe-goo to secure my spoke crossings, Keeps the crap out and eliminates spoke noise. Can also be removed relatively easily unlike wire and solder.

  13. #13
    Rippin da fAt
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    3M weatherstrip adhesive is the bomb... Available in black or yellow at most auto parts stores along with DOT 5.1 at a reasonable price.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    3M weatherstrip adhesive is the bomb...
    Reading the product SDS, that may be true.
    After reading the ingredient list and the cautions, makes one want to use this while standing on the other side of the street.

    Sounds like it could be a sure way to glue a split-tube into a rim for a variation of split-tube-tubless. Don't know about the glue-line surviving the amonnia if a piece of tube was glued over the nipples in place of sealing tape.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  15. #15
    Rippin da fAt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Reading the product SDS, that may be true.
    After reading the ingredient list and the cautions, makes one want to use this while standing on the other side of the street.

    Sounds like it could be a sure way to glue a split-tube into a rim for a variation of split-tube-tubless. Don't know about the glue-line surviving the amonnia if a piece of tube was glued over the nipples in place of sealing tape.
    So, choose a sealant that doesn't have ammonia for insurance on the cheap...
    Intentionally inhaling any chemical that actually does a freaking job like vaping, for instance is on the user, just sayin'! And put the bong down long enough to fix a damned bike to prevent explosion.

    Common sense is optional these days, I'm afraid!
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    ... Common sense is optional these days, I'm afraid!
    Very.
    With all of the standard canned "Warning!" on everything (who knew clothes pegs were so dangerous...), you can't know if the warning is real or not.
    Which is why I like to check the MDS/SDS to see what a product is really dealing with. With that one, a warning is justified. Certainly understand how it's able to get a clean grip; it's almost (and may be) self-vulcanizing. But an acetone or Naphtha wipe certainly can't hurt.

    Oddly, while with tapes you can usually find adhesion specs, test methods, etc., rarely do I find meaningful specs for 'glues' - you're usually left to do your own shear and peel tests. Given that products use, I'm surprised it's not claiming a higher resistance to moisture, as its obviously used successfully in an environment with thermal cycling while under moisture conditions.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  17. #17
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    I gave the Shoe Goo another go since I had enough left over. I get the impression the fumes from the other products are far more rank than the Shoe Goo and I don't have a ventilated heated work area.

    The tires have 330 km of use on them since the initial gluing, and I gave them a good cleaning yesterday with soap, then some Simple Green (I can see my rear rim labels again). Some of the old glue was bonded well, so with a clean surface it should hold this time. Using a 10 ml syringe (with several refills) I managed to get the job done without making a mess.

    It was easier and faster to do with the bike on a repair stand. Last time I did it before mounting the tire to a rim.

  18. #18
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    I used clear shoe glue for extra knobs on the sole of my shoe, and they did not last long.
    The info you provide on finding black shoe glue is excellent advice.

    I would just run over to the local strip mall and find me a shoe repair guy and grab some from them.

    I am sure there are better products out there, more specialized chemical products with superior chemical characteristics, but then the price goes up too.

    I was thinking an epoxy might work too.

  19. #19
    Rippin da fAt
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    I used clear shoe glue for extra knobs on the sole of my shoe, and they did not last long.
    The info you provide on finding black shoe glue is excellent advice.

    I would just run over to the local strip mall and find me a shoe repair guy and grab some from them.

    I am sure there are better products out there, more specialized chemical products with superior chemical characteristics, but then the price goes up too.

    I was thinking an epoxy might work too.
    Epoxy is a no go when a flexible repair is in order. Dries/cures to a hard plastic state and breaks into shards that are worse than goat heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Very.
    With all of the standard canned "Warning!" on everything (who knew clothes pegs were so dangerous...), you can't know if the warning is real or not.
    Which is why I like to check the MDS/SDS to see what a product is really dealing with. With that one, a warning is justified. Certainly understand how it's able to get a clean grip; it's almost (and may be) self-vulcanizing. But an acetone or Naphtha wipe certainly can't hurt.

    Oddly, while with tapes you can usually find adhesion specs, test methods, etc., rarely do I find meaningful specs for 'glues' - you're usually left to do your own shear and peel tests. Given that products use, I'm surprised it's not claiming a higher resistance to moisture, as its obviously used successfully in an environment with thermal cycling while under moisture conditions.
    Deliberately concentrating the material might get ya buzzed however vaping might do ya in more efficiently.

    3M is slightly different compound than that of shoo goo. It is inexpensive and readily available. Either would be worthy to salvage a tire from the bin, especially in Espen's case. Espen has the only three light and supple tires Vee ever made, the rest are boat anchor stock...
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  20. #20
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    In googling between "3M 08008 Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive" and Permatex's product, I came across accounts of the 3m product failing in heat (suspected due to a release agent on the rubber moulding or silicone in the rubber).
    What was reported to work was a product from the makers of Shoe Goo & GOOP, called "Seal-All".
    http://eclecticproducts.com/products.../seal-all.html

    Gas & oil resistant
    Waterproof – bond remains secure even when exposed to water
    Abrasion resistant
    Temperature resistant – remains tough even in extreme temperatures

    2. USE AS A SEALANT: Apply directly to clean, dry surface. Hold firmly until product sets. Additional coats may be applied. Allow each layer to dry thoroughly. On leaking objects under pressure, tape over Seal-Al® with Duct® or masking tape. Additional coats may be applied over tape.
    3. USE AS A CONTACT ADHESIVE: Spread coating on each surface to be joined together. Allow to harden for 5-10 minutes, then press both surfaces together. Seal-All hardens by solvent evaporation and forms an immediate bond that is difficult to reposition after both adhesive coated surfaces are placed in contact and sufficient pressure is exerted to create full contact between both surfaces.
    4. Seal-All will set in about 2-3 minutes and reaches full cure in 2-6 hours. Cure time increases with lower temperatures and decreases with higher temperatures.
    5. Paint over Seal-All for UV resistance.

    They also make different versions of GOOP, some clear, some black.
    http://eclecticproducts.com/products...oop-adhesives/
    Including: GOOP Automotive, GOOP II MAX and GOOP MARINE.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  21. #21
    Rippin da fAt
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    After looking at the links, they have "Unicorn Spit". Good laugh on that one!

    All in all, the more options for us to use and keep a very expensive tire rolling, the better.
    Most of these products and heat prolly aren't going to get along however, the temps our bikes are exposed to are likely not qualifying as the kind of heat that failure would be the result.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

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