BFLs on a Mukluk- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    BFLs on a Mukluk

    Just another update on the BFL/Mukluk combination...

    The conventional wisdom is to drop a gear from the cassette for tire clearance--which, when combined with the E-13 cranks on a Muk 2, works great.

    That said, do not drop the smallest (highest) gear. Drop the 2nd smallest gear or another gear. If you drop the smallest gear, you may have some issues with the remaining outboard gear not properly engaging the splines on the drive hub. As you know if you've taken apart a cassette, the outboard gear is manufactured differently, with splines extending inboard (built in, without need for a spacer) and with the teeth moved outboard. The remaining gears are not made that way, so if you pull the smallest gear and run the 2nd smallest gear with a spacer in the outboard position, it may not properly engage.

    Shifts perfectly with the 2nd smallest gear removed.

  2. #2
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    I went downstairs and checked it with a 170mm Salsa hub and a xt cassette and you're right it does engage it with the smallest cog out but not by much. I don't think I will trust it and I like the idea of the second one out anyways. Although I have a 12-36 9 speed cassette I was thinking about running with the BFL's but with that on all the cogs are fastened together except the smallest and that should work as well. Thanks for the heads up.

  3. #3
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    Take it from me. Don't trust it.

    Also, not sure if you have a Muk 2 or 3, but remember that if you have a Muk 2, you can't shift to big/big with the stock E-13 cranks and a 36 tooth cassette in the rear. Salsa will provide a 34 tooth cassette if you'd like.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawfarm View Post
    Take it from me. Don't trust it.

    Also, not sure if you have a Muk 2 or 3, but remember that if you have a Muk 2, you can't shift to big/big with the stock E-13 cranks and a 36 tooth cassette in the rear. Salsa will provide a 34 tooth cassette if you'd like.
    No Muk here a 907 and soon to be Fatback, why can't you shift into a 36 but you can a 32 on a muk?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    No Muk here a 907 and soon to be Fatback, why can't you shift into a 36 but you can a 32 on a muk?
    Muk 2s come with the E-13 triple crank with a 44 tooth big chainring. The original Salsa build came with a 11-36 tooth cassette and Sram X9 long cage rear derailleur.

    The combination of the 44 tooth chainring and 36 tooth cassette gear is too much gear for the X9. The X9 long cage is good for 45T, according to Sram.

    Pulling some data from here (note, the data there is old, as far as capacity goes):

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...ur-284688.html

    cap req'd (T) = (BIG ring - small ring) + (BIG cog - small cog)

    44-32-22 mountain crank & 11-36 cassette...

    T = (44T - 22T) + (36T - 11T)
    .. = (22T) + (225T)
    .. = 47T

    That's too big for the X9 long cage; it doesn't have enough travel to not have slack in little little and be loose enough to shift into big big. If you go to an 11-34 cassette, it'll work fine. The early bikes shipped with 11-36. They have since been converted to 11-34s. If you have a Muk 2 with an 11-36, you can get an 11-34.

    Soooooo......
    1. Since you need the smallest gear in the cassette to engage the splines on the hub, you have to keep the smallest gear in the cassette.
    2. If you have a 36T big gear in the cassette, you need to drop that gear anyhow (unless you want to remember to never shift into certain combinations).
    3. Disregard #2 if you drop the big chainring and go with a bashguard.

  6. #6
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    If you want to drop the 11, you might have success replacing the now smallest 13 with a Miche "first position" cassette cog. MTBR isn't allowing me to include a URL (not enough posts), but Miche will sell you loose cogs for either the middle or end of a cassette for about ten bucks. The product description says that you aren't supposed to combine cogs between manufacturers, but I've got a cassette which is half shimano half/miche and it works great. Good luck!

  7. #7
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    Just finished putting BFL's on Rolling Darryls on my 2011 Muk. I swapped out to an Origin 8 crank, (the 2X model), and switched from the 44T/29T to a 32T/22T combo.

    Clears the 36T cassette cog when in the 22T front easily. The tire whiskers just brush the chain.

    I may drop one cog for mondo snow clearances, but I can't see hardly ever using that 36T with my 22T granny. That gear is ridiculously low! I'll probably leave it as is.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawfarm View Post
    Muk 2s come with the E-13 triple crank with a 44 tooth big chainring. The original Salsa build came with a 11-36 tooth cassette and Sram X9 long cage rear derailleur.

    The combination of the 44 tooth chainring and 36 tooth cassette gear is too much gear for the X9. The X9 long cage is good for 45T, according to Sram.

    Pulling some data from here (note, the data there is old, as far as capacity goes):

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...ur-284688.html

    cap req'd (T) = (BIG ring - small ring) + (BIG cog - small cog)

    44-32-22 mountain crank & 11-36 cassette...

    T = (44T - 22T) + (36T - 11T)
    O.. = (22T) + (225T)
    .. = 47T

    That's too big for the X9 long cage; it doesn't have enough travel to not have slack in little little and be loose enough to shift into big big. If you go to an 11-34 cassette, it'll work fine. The early bikes shipped with 11-36. They have since been converted to 11-34s. If you have a Muk 2 with an 11-36, you can get an 11-34.

    Soooooo......
    1. Since you need the smallest gear in the cassette to engage the splines on the hub, you have to keep the smallest gear in the cassette.
    2. If you have a 36T big gear in the cassette, you need to drop that gear anyhow (unless you want to remember to never shift into certain combinations).
    3. Disregard #2 if you drop the big chainring and go with a bashguard.
    Thanks for the work but all you really needed to say is the der can't handle the 44-36 tooth combo. Anyhoo I do run a bash on my e13 so it shouldn't be a problem but thanks for pointing this out because I was going to run a xt medium cage and need to do the math. I thought I might like the 36 in the back but as GT pointed out it might be kinda low. Lawfarm you are going to be a nice resource keep it up.

    Thanks......Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Thanks for the work but all you really needed to say is the der can't handle the 44-36 tooth combo. Anyhoo I do run a bash on my e13 so it shouldn't be a problem but thanks for pointing this out because I was going to run a xt medium cage and need to do the math. I thought I might like the 36 in the back but as GT pointed out it might be kinda low. Lawfarm you are going to be a nice resource keep it up.

    Thanks......Bob
    In the interests of full disclosure...

    It was Hand of Midas and his peeps that figured out the 'don't drop the smallest gear from the cassette' issue...

  10. #10
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    You can drop the smallest cog if you'd like and then use a Surly Lockring to replace the standard when running BFL's. I've run seven cogs out back for some time using a Surly Spacer kit and 14T Surly SS Cog for my smallest cog. Coupled with Surly Whirly's and MWOD chainrings this gives me ample clearance for BFL's on 100's on the Mukluk

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKM View Post
    You can drop the smallest cog if you'd like and then use a Surly Lockring to replace the standard when running BFL's. I've run seven cogs out back for some time using a Surly Spacer kit and 14T Surly SS Cog for my smallest cog. Coupled with Surly Whirly's and MWOD chainrings this gives me ample clearance for BFL's on 100's on the Mukluk
    Just curious why do you need to use Surly's lock ring, what's the difference to a normal one?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Thanks for the work but all you really needed to say is the der can't handle the 44-36 tooth combo.
    You only need to follow Sram's instructions if you think you might actually need to use big-big and small-small. If you happy to give up the option of small-small you can ignore sram restrictions. Ive been using short cage mechs with a full triple set-up for years, as long as you dont do the extreme ranges its prefectly fine.

    Just curious why do you need to use Surly's lock ring, what's the difference to a normal one?
    If the cassette is 11-36 then dropping the 11 will require you to swap to a locking from a 12t cassette (it bigger). The surly SS kit uses a 12t lockring too.

  13. #13
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    Can't comment on the lockring...

    The reason you can't pull the smallest gear from the cassette is because it has an integrated, splined spacer built into it. The next gear over has a detached spacer. So if you pull the little gear, the secon gear gets spaced too far over and doesn't properly engage the splines on the hub.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickyelsdon View Post
    You only need to follow Sram's instructions if you think you might actually need to use big-big and small-small. If you happy to give up the option of small-small you can ignore sram restrictions. Ive been using short cage mechs with a full triple set-up for years, as long as you dont do the extreme ranges its prefectly fine.



    If the cassette is 11-36 then dropping the 11 will require you to swap to a locking from a 12t cassette (it bigger). The surly SS kit uses a 12t lockring too.
    Mine is a 12-36 so should be good to go with included lock ring. I know all about the teeth size restrictions of long vs. short der. I just never messed with taking cogs off. I like to keep mine in the right range as I don't always use my head when shifting and will end up breaking something (I can be an air head at times).

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