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  1. #101
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    Good work Mikee!

    So the question is, how do I get Frame Saver OUT of my Waltworks?! Ha ha. It's actually a bit concerning because I can't imagine what's happening inside my frame at the moment given the moisture it's subjected to for the most part of the year?!

    The good news for me is that the Fluid Film product is readily available and a lot cheaper than Frame Saver...

  2. #102
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    Just J,

    You bring up a good point.

    I was actually thinking the same thing and was wanting to do some other experimenting with things like rubbing alcohol/brake clean/different degreasers etc. to find out which one would easily wash away these products. I just simply havent done any testing yet...
    I would consider trying doing this with rubbing alcohol.

    Sidenote:

    This testing was ďEXTREMEĒ
    Iím confident that your tubing is safe right now with framesaver.

    But it wouldnít hurt to upgrade in the future

  3. #103
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    Thanks Mikee, yes I'd be inclined to slosh some Isopropyl Alcohol around the insides of the frame. Next time the frame is stripped, I will take a good look and report back...

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Good work Mikee!

    So the question is, how do I get Frame Saver OUT of my Waltworks?!
    It looks like you could use battery acid to get it out.
    Latitude 61

  5. #105
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    FWIW I've used Fluid Film over existing products. I would think treating over Frame Saver should be fine. If you did want to remove Frame Saver I'm sure Laquer Thinner would do it but then again it would remove paint too. Maybe a project for the next paint job.

    Thanks again to the OP for running this test! I can't say I'm too surprised. I tried several products on my cars before I settled on Fluid Film. I have cars that have seen a decade of Cleveland winters and the Fluid Film is keeping them very rust free.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    It looks like you could use battery acid to get it out.
    LOL good idea, why didnít I think of that?!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    Thanks bucksaw87!

    Glad you are enjoying this!

    If anyone has any product recommendations for a 2019 shootout
    do share!
    Maxima chain wax. It goes on very liquid like kerosene. Sake your bike around and let it drain out the holes. It then dries like the stuff car brake rotors come coated with. (I also use it on new vehicles in the cracks and crevasis) I even used Maxima chain wax inside my aluminum frame to prevent corrosion for ocean beach rides and salty winter Michigan roads. I don't like to use it to wax my chain however. Squirt lube works better than any previous wax I have used except maybe boiling the chain in paraffin.(waxing since 1975)

    Cleaner - use brake rotor cleaner to get any of this oil out of your frame. (basically the same stuff dry cleaners use)

  8. #108
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    Lol sryanak

    Yes ferrstein, I think you have the right idea just spraying Fluid Film right over the Framesaver should work.

    k.b. ďMaxima chainwax noted!

  9. #109
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    Cool thread and great test! I've used Fluid Film for a few years now. Great product. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that it's non toxic, all natural.
    Last edited by joshtee; 06-10-2018 at 08:23 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    Cool thread and great test! I've used Fluid Film for a few years now. Great product. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that it's non toxic, all natural.
    Indeed. It is basically lanolin, so it does have the risk of making your skin really soft. The spray cans have propellants that are probably not harmless but this stuff isn't nearly as toxic as most things of this nature. I do wear a respirator to keep from inhaling the mist when I apply it... but then again I pretty much always wear a respirator when I'm making dust or fumes.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrstein View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    Cool thread and great test! I've used Fluid Film for a few years now. Great product. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that it's non toxic, all natural.
    Indeed. It is basically lanolin, so it does have the risk of making your skin really soft. The spray cans have propellants that are probably not harmless but this stuff isn't nearly as toxic as most things of this nature. I do wear a respirator to keep from inhaling the mist when I apply it... but then again I pretty much always wear a respirator when I'm making dust or fumes.
    Fluid Film produces a number of products: "lanolin-based brand of corrosion preventive and lubricant". The one tested is available in an aerosol and non-aerosol. Description on site includes:
    • "a non-toxic, long lasting, thixotropic liquid"
    • "formulated from specially processed wool-wax, highly refined petroleum oils and selected agents"

    The SDS lists ingredients of the aerosol version as:
    • Refined petroleum oil, hydrotreated heavy paraffinic
    • Petroleum gases, liquified, sweetened
    • Benzenesulfonic Acid, Di-C10-18-alkyl derivs., calcium salts
    The non-aerosol drops the middle ingredient.

    I assume those are the ingredients in addition to Lanolin?

    (wikipedia on Lanolin mentions "Commercial products (e.g. Lanocote) containing up to 85% lanolin are used to prevent corrosion in marine fasteners, especially when two different metals are in contact with each other and saltwater.")
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Fluid Film produces a number of products: "lanolin-based brand of corrosion preventive and lubricant". The one tested is available in an aerosol and non-aerosol. Description on site includes:

    • "a non-toxic, long lasting, thixotropic liquid"
    • "formulated from specially processed wool-wax, highly refined petroleum oils and selected agents"

    The SDS lists ingredients of the aerosol version as:
    • Refined petroleum oil, hydrotreated heavy paraffinic
    • Petroleum gases, liquified, sweetened
    • Benzenesulfonic Acid, Di-C10-18-alkyl derivs., calcium salts

    The non-aerosol drops the middle ingredient.

    I assume those are the ingredients in addition to Lanolin?

    (wikipedia on Lanolin mentions "Commercial products (e.g. Lanocote) containing up to 85% lanolin are used to prevent corrosion in marine fasteners, especially when two different metals are in contact with each other and saltwater.")
    Based on this thread, I purchased a can of Fluid Film (I have been using T9 to coat my frames.... seems like I could do better). I applied a generous coat to tubes of Salsa Fargo, and it really smells strongly of lanolin (gamey).

    I regret my decision. I sometimes go bikepacking in bear county (Sierras), and am genuinely concerned that the strong smell will attract bears. Bears have a better sense of smell than dogs, and this bike now is redolent of calorie-dense animal fat

    I may try taking the bike apart and trying to rinse off the Fluid Film with alcohol, then apply WD-40 Specialist Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor.

    Does anyone else share my concern?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by NudeRanch View Post
    Based on this thread, I purchased a can of Fluid Film (I have been using T9 to coat my frames.... seems like I could do better). I applied a generous coat to tubes of Salsa Fargo, and it really smells strongly of lanolin (gamey).

    I regret my decision. I sometimes go bikepacking in bear county (Sierras), and am genuinely concerned that the strong smell will attract bears. Bears have a better sense of smell than dogs, and this bike now is redolent of calorie-dense animal fat

    I may try taking the bike apart and trying to rinse off the Fluid Film with alcohol, then apply WD-40 Specialist Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor.

    Does anyone else share my concern?
    No.
    But that doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

    I was working on reviving friend's kid's bikes this evening, after they were left out in the rain & snow all winter. Since this is likely to remain the case moving forward, and having a can of Fluid Film handy in anticipation of treating my frames, I decided to use it to treat various rusty parts, wiping a thin coat into many a rust spot and joint. We'll see how it protects going forward.

    All the chains were rusty. So I tried some on those too. Except for one chain that's a write-off, Fluid Film seemed to revive them very well: smooth, quiet, but I've no idea on abrasion or chain wear in the future with all of that ferrous oxide lubed around those joints. Most of the joints in the write-off chain revived well, with many initially reluctant, some had to be forced to move (and shortly worked well), while a few stayed seized. I'll certainly try it on the replacement chain I get, as I'm certain the bikes will be spending their entire time outdoors in the weather.

    I used it to lube a seized brake line I got to move. Once lubed with Fluid Film, it improved movement, but not enough for my liking, so that line will be replaced. I'll try a bit on the replacement line, and a few others, to see if this stops these kids bikes from rusting/seizing at the low point in the lines. Not something we're usually concerned with regarding our bikes that get regular maintenance and aren't left outside 24/7 to rust in the weather. I'm hesitant to try it on my quality lines, which I've never had any issue with.

    So with a number of treated parts and surfaces on three bikes, with a number of over lubricated points, one absolutely soaked chain and thoroughly treated hands (that I'm certain won't rust for a decade), there was no discernible smell left once the aerosol smell evaporated away. None of the pets showed any interest in the bike, spray can or drippings - nor my hands. I wasn't attacked, followed nor propositioned by any coyotes nor bears on my way home, nor by any of the misquotes that was bothering the kids' mom.

    Despite lanolin's reputation for making for supple skin, I easily washed it off with soap and water. My hands do feel nice: smoother, softer than usual, but not oily nor greasy. I can't say that I discern any return of youthful elasticity. Your results may vary.

    Perhaps you could treat a bike and hang it in the woods in front of a trail cam.

    I suppose you could add something spicy to sprinkle on the lanolin in the tubes, then hope none of the bears were former dump-bears and learnt to like Mexican.

    (I did find one alleged incident of the use of Lanolin attributed to causing an angry dragon to approach a smurf, but I believe that report should be regarded with some suspicion.)
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  14. #114
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    I've never had an issue with bears and oiled wool sweaters, but not a lot of time in bear country with them, and who knows what other smells I may have had that were a deterrent. Haven't heard of any issues either.

    There is this, regarding the making of bear lures.
    When using skunk essence, three ounces of pure tincture can be mixed with a pound or more of lanolin or a smaller amount of glycerin.
    https://archive.usgs.gov/archive/sit...h/NCDElure.htm

    And lanolin turns up in supply sources as a base for making lures.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by NudeRanch View Post
    ... I applied a generous coat to tubes of Salsa Fargo, and it really smells strongly of lanolin (gamey)...
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    No.
    But that doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

    ... there was no discernible smell left once the aerosol smell evaporated away. None of the pets showed any interest in the bike, spray can or drippings - nor my hands. ...
    wow
    definite smell
    Left the can in the back of the van in the sun.
    • I'm just back from some more work on another of those kids' bikes. This included applying a tiny bit of Fluid Film to some parts (a few bolts, rims, spokes). Occasional smell coming and going. Went, "what's that smell?"
    • Sprayed a fresh bit of Fluid Film out onto a bit of paper towel. Very gamy smell, almost trying to be putrid. Smell lingers in the air for a while, then subsides. Smell on hands subsides.
    • Pets showed no interest nor aversion to it. No discernible reaction at all. Not even to check it out. I find that very odd, as they'll check out most new smells; however, the previously treated bikes are in the same yard.
    • Hands washed clean with soap and water, no smell.

    I have no idea if the in-sun bake caused or enhanced the smell, or if I somehow missed it the first time using Fluid Film. Considering how distinct the smell is, I can't imagine missing it, but who knows.

    • Rusty parts treated the other day look great and work great. No discernible smell.
    • Wiped in a tiny bit of Fluid Film to a new brake cable before running it through a new housing. I know this one will be in the rain, with the housing end facing up, so we'll see if it gets water pooling in the bottom loop of the housing and rusting like the last one. Cable is a jagwire die-extruded stainless left over from a box I had. Housing is CGX-SL. We'll see how long it lasts with that abuse.
    • Found references to using Fluid Film on motorcycle chains. They liked it. No longevity reports.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  16. #116
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    Great experiment! Seems to back up my at best mixed results with Frame Saver especially in my ROS9, seatpost fit is not as tight in that one and get some water intrusion thru stress relief slit on front side of the seat tube. Original owner also seemed to have submerged the frame as water came out of chainstays and rust everywhere else but pretty easy clean or rust reformer application thru frame holes and buffed out the inside of the seatpost a bit with a Dremel. But it was a cheap score on ebay.

    Nabbed a can of Fluid Film yesterday at O'Reilly auto and treated the ROS9 and ROS9+ this morning. Didn't detect any "gamey" smell(at least not the like the shit I've killed and/or field dressed) just the lanolin smell. Had switched to a combo of marine grease and wax based lubricants.
    ROS9+ SS
    ROS9 SS
    GT Peace 9R SS

  17. #117
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    Any follow up on using Fluid Film inside a frame. Any unforeseen issues using it in that application?

    Have a new frame and deciding on Frame Saver which I already have, or to try Fluid Film.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Any follow up on using Fluid Film inside a frame. Any unforeseen issues using it in that application?
    I use the 360 degree nozzles. They should be long enough to feed into the larger tubes by accessing through the head tube or bottom bracket. Otherwise I just use the straw tip on the drian holes of the smaller tubes.

    Fluid Film Extension Wand

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Any follow up on using Fluid Film inside a frame. Any unforeseen issues using it in that application? Have a new frame and deciding on Frame Saver which I already have, or to try Fluid Film.
    Well, where you will be using the bike?

    If along the ocean with salt water, I'd be wanted something with better than Frame Saver to protect my new frame. Also if used where there are salts in the soil or if it's acidic, or if the bike will be stored outdoors frequently (yard at home or bike rack at work?).

    Fluid Film. Just the smell. Used as described above on chains, it smells up the whole area of the deck. Over the summer, the smell quickly dissipated and the chains only smell if you wipe your finger on the chain and smell it. Trapped inside a frame, the smell may persist more.

    I'm interested in trying the WD40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor. Way better than Frame Saver in the test, almost as good as Fluid Film, no smell. Note that the smell may have been caused by my leaving the can in a van where it got sun-baked.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrstein View Post
    I use the 360 degree nozzles. ...
    That wand looks great!

    Have you experienced any smell with Fluid Film?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  21. #121
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    After reading through this whole thread, I've determined it's much easier to buy a carbon or aluminum framed bike.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    After reading through this whole thread, I've determined it's much easier to buy a carbon or aluminum framed bike.
    ... because you've never seen aluminum corrode?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    That wand looks great!

    Have you experienced any smell with Fluid Film?
    I haven't personally used it on bikes, but use it on other things that stay outside. I have never thought the 'smell' was a issue. It does have a distinctive scent, but until being mentioned here, I never thought about it.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    ... because you've never seen aluminum corrode?
    No. Because I don't have to add any treatment to my frame.

  25. #125
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    I'm pretty much convinced my can smelling extremely gamy, almost putrid, is due to my leaving it in the van in the sun. There was some scent prior to that, but I didn't really pay attention to it. After being baked in the sun, it's pretty hard to ignore...
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    That wand looks great!

    Have you experienced any smell with Fluid Film?
    I haven't. I've been using it for years on my cars. My wife complains a bit if I get too much overspray on the exhaust... but that goes away after a few days.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    ... because you've never seen aluminum corrode?
    Aluminum Oxide creates a protective layer in most cases.

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  28. #128
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    Fluid Film Rust Protection


    The above product is a much thicker version of what the spray can holds; must be applied with a brush or swab, did see a picture of an open can that was tipped over, product was not flowing out.

    Looks like the proper solution for any who want to coat the inner parts of a seat tube. Personally, have not used the AR version.
    "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway" John Wayne

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by toadmeister View Post
    Aluminum Oxide creates a protective layer in most cases.
    Yup. Standard 'lawn-chair' protection.
    Then you add salt water, or soil salts, acids and water, or even humidity. Depends.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  30. #130
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    What should I use on my carbon frame?

    Carbon fiber is indeed affected by salt water. I kid you not. (Link to another MTBR thread.)

    I continue to be drawn to this subject. I found a few products like Salt Away and Salt Terminator and I wonder about their effectiveness? Boaters seem to like the products. Does anybody use any such product for ocean beach fatbike riding or winter salt country bike commutes?

    Then I happened upon the site clearroads.org which is for road equipment that spreads salt and corrosion management on highway maintenance equipment. One pdf paper stands out and has some recommendations about page 60.

    Well, just keepin the topic alive as we approach another winter with salty roads in the forcast.

  31. #131
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    Very interesting test!
    I was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with ACF 50? I used to work with a frame builder back in the 80's that was a big fan of the stuff - recommended to him by an airplane mechanic, apparently developed for aerospace and salt water exposure. I remember soaking some rusted parts in it once and it dissolved all the rust off leaving clean shiny metal. I don't know how it would compare to some of the other stuff, they might be newer and better.
    They claim that it offers 2 years of rust protection. Had a google and found their website if anyone is interested.

    https://learchem.com/products/acf-50.html

  32. #132
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    I used LPS3 on the bottom of my car and it has held up very well.

    I moved down to FL and brought my bike. It is getting all rusty as I have had to keep it on my roof rack for a month and I am right next to the ocean in Fort Walton Beach/Destin/Navarre. I wanted to get something to help prevent rust on the bearings, hardware, pedals and such. I know FF is fairly tacky and see WD-40 corrosion inhibitor is also tacky. I was going to go get a bottle of the WD40 corrosion inhibitor and apply with a rag so it will be a thin coat and hopefully the sand that I have to ride thru here will not stick to it. IDK if there is any other product that would be better or if I just need to get my bike off my roof and stored inside...


    Maybe I will use some car wax for or Bioshield.

  33. #133
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    aviator79, You bring up an important scenario. Iím liking your idea about wiping product on components...

    I personally donít have any wisdom to contribute. Any coastal riders reading this? Please chime in with ideas.

    I would recommend regularly cleaning off fresh/new/surface corrosion with steel wool and penetrating oil. Followed by a wipe of corrosion treatment. A waxy product or maybe a silicone product might be well suited in order to not make the bikes externals greasy to the touch.

  34. #134
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    for bearing and torqued surfaces I use copper grease
    for chain lube I use paraffin
    for metal finishes, plastic, and rubber parts I use fluid film
    for leather I use sno seal wax

    after eight Maine winters hanging on the bike rack, rolling over beach sand, and splashing through the ocean, my bike shows no evidence of corrosion or other deterioration.

  35. #135
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    Thatís what Iím talkiní bout! ^^^^

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    ... I would recommend regularly cleaning off fresh/new/surface corrosion with steel wool and penetrating oil...
    for bikes: no, no and no
    You're rarely dealing with raw metal, and which you don't want to rough the surface of for more dirt/salt/water to reside, and you don't want to wear the metal away. It's going to damange the paint too, which is your primary protection, with the same surface roughing consequences.
    Note that a recomended treatment for rusty chrome is vigorious wiping with "tinfoil" (aliminum foil). I assume that the aluminum is softer than the chrome but harder than the rust. I've seen the result, which looks good, but I haven't tried it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    ... Followed by a wipe of corrosion treatment. A waxy product or maybe a silicone product might be well suited in order to not make the bikes externals greasy to the touch.
    • Waxoyl "soft wax" would be a good choice, if expensive. It was my goto on cars, but I'm rethinking that with the Fluid Film.
    • I used Bike Spirits Spray Cleaner & Polish on a cloth to wipe down bike tubes, spokes & rims, just to have some protection. I like it.
    • My rear wheel's dork-protector got rubbed with beeswax as an experiment - seems to work.
    • With the salt used on the roads & bike paths in winter where I am, I'll be switching to Fluid Film.

    On the friend's kids' rusty bikes, I used a tiny abount of Fluid Film on paper towels or a rag, and wiped the tubes down. It soaked into the surface rust (as when sprayed, it soaked into the rusty chains), and cracks in the paint, and was largely wiped off of the painted surface. Rims too. It's not attracting dirt (lanolin is known for resisting dirt adhesion), but I'm not in a dusty area, so no info on that.

    That ACF 50 look interesting. It's got a track record on aircraft structures, so I can't see it having any negative affect on bikes.
    Depending on availability & price, I'd be trying some for around electrical parts of the car. Its penetrating properities looks good, but Fluid Film is also known for penetrating.
    They also have a Corrision Block product, for use around salt water.
    https://learchem.com/products/corrosion-block.html

    p.s.
    I got a fresh can of Fluid Film to treat. It does have a gamey smell, but no where near as strong as, nor any of the foul smell of, the can I left in the van that got baked in the sun.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

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