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  1. #1
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    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!

    Give me some credit, or at least some credit. I am probably the first person to discover 5.5 inch wide tires for sale
    CHAOYANG YETI CROSS
    They offer it in tubeless ready and with spikes/studdes
    -PLS know their is very limited information on this and you can only purchase it by contacting the headquarters of Chaoyang, now the quality on this tire is VERY questionable but I give them credit for winning the race on first to make a tire wider than (5.05)
    This is the first forum on this tire! (some claim another was posted but not true)

    -I own a 2017 Fuji Wendigo 2.1
    btw: RIP Fuji (they went bankrupt)
    Last edited by Donald Pikachu; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    If it's the same tire they showed at Taipei.....your tire boner is premature.
    It ain't even close....
    But if it was actually 5.5.....what bike would it fit? ( that's a rhetorical question)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    boner is premature
    I have a feeling he's at that age where it's always premature

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    If it's the same tire they showed at Taipei.....your tire boner is premature.
    It ain't even close....
    But if it was actually 5.5.....what bike would it fit? ( that's a rhetorical question)
    Itís unfortunate that they appear to also be exaggerating their measurements but someone needs to come out with something bigger. The Fatbike market is stagnant, there has been no progression towards fatter, more floaty tires for years. I donít feel that going taller is the answer as you need low standover height to remount on soft, punchy trails. Plus, the taller you go the lower youíll need to make your gears and there is a limit to whatís available there as well. It seems to me that a 5.5Ē tire will work with the existing 120mm bottom brackets and 197Ē rear hubs. Iím pretty certain thatís all Espin was using? A Mukluk can run 2XLís on 80mm wheels with a 100mm BB and has zero clearance issues.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    Give me some credit, or at least some credit.

    I'll give you one or the other. But not both.

  7. #7
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    So what frames and forks will clear a 5.5 and still leave wiggle room of mud, snow, ice, etc?


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    I donít feel that going taller is the answer as you need low standover height to remount on soft, punchy trails.

    It's almost, kinda, like you don't understand anything about bicycle design.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's almost, kinda, like you don't understand anything about bicycle design.
    Uh huh. In your world is everyone over 6í tall with super long legs? Good to see you so filled with Christmas spirit. Are insults and snarky comments what you are giving out as gifts this season?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Uh huh. In your world is everyone over 6í tall with super long legs?

    Tis better to remain silent and appear ignorant than to speak up and remove all doubt.

  11. #11
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    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!

    Anyone have one of those tilting 12í snowmobile trailers with the short fat tires? Its suppose to ďfloatĒ on the snow but keep the trailer low.

    Ever tried to back one up in snow? It ****ing digs in and cant back up straight at all. Forward? Well.. a trucks pulling it. So that doesnít matter. As a lead tire... sucks.

    Small dia and fat is stupid.

    Hoping they make 29x3.8Ē one day.


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  12. #12
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    They back up better than tall skinny tires do. Try backing standard trailer tires in the snow. The fatties help in that situation, not perfect but they help.

    (Best solution to sled deck issues for me was a deck on the truck with 35x12.5 tires on it. Diameter and width helped)

    Are the 5.5s closer to actual 5, or somewhere in between?

    It's chao yang so they probably have the texture and flex of a hdpe cutting board.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    Give me some credit, or at least some credit. I am probably the first person to discover 5.5 inch wide tires for sale
    CHAOYANG YETI CROSS
    Why am I giving you credit for somebody else's product that may or may not actually exist???

  14. #14
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    ^^^^He's jacked up because he posted it 1st.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2old View Post
    ^^^^He's jacked up because he posted it 1st.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    Except that he didn't -- it was shared here a few days ago by someone else.

  16. #16
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    i am giving you 2 neg, u r very welcome

  17. #17
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    Either people don't care or they want to be trolls.
    PS: down vote all you want it will not get this post out of this world.
    the grinch has arrived to this forum post on CHAOYANG YETI CROSS welcome mr.mikesee
    or shall I say Mr.Grinch

  18. #18
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    2 mr.grinches now mikesee and 33red

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    2 mr.grinches now mikesee and 33red
    Bad posts get neg rep. Live with it and do better next time.

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    DP, sorry for the lack of fan fair. Your thread stemmed from another post a day or so prior, where the tire received the reception it deserved. Little.

    It was first shown months (?) prior at a trade show. Boots on the ground determined that the stamping on the side wall did not reflect the actual measurements. Disappointed as we typically are at the news it was swept under the rug. The tread pattern and manufacturer were ďmehĒ at best as well.

    Thanks though.

  21. #21
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    29 fat or else it's meh. This is below, meh.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Except that he didn't -- it was shared here a few days ago by someone else.

    Hell I knew it was on the website three months ago and didn't care to share it with anybody... because...its CHAO YANG...they lie on sizes... always. The big daddy 4.9, on a 100mm rim, as I measured them inflated at 20psi...and posted in a review here 2 years ago about the KHS FS 1000...

    "The flat bead-to-bead witdth for the casing is 260mm but the tread is only 113mm. On the stock 100mm rims they inflate to a nominal 115mm casing and 103mm tread width. "
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  23. #23
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    Maybe if everybody bought 5.5" tires, then bike industry would know there was a market for frames/forks with plenty of room for it. Especially for the morbidly obese who need more float in thick fresh snow.

  24. #24
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    Ah, so the Chao Yang is finally hitting the market, it seems.
    I asked CY as well as three other manufacturers to make a 5.5'' back in 2015, when Vee decided to shrink the 2XL from approx. 5.6'' to 5.2''.

    My protos were 6.5'' (on a 103mm, but these really should sit on a 130+), bead to bead is 345mm and they weigh 2800g a pop.
    Casing so thick that it makes a Vee 2 ply feel like a silk tubular for track use.

    CY showed a 5.5'' version at Taipei in 2016 (I grabbed some calipers and measured them), but it seems that they shrunk it further.

    We discussed it briefly back in 17'
    https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/26...l#post13450065

    Picture of my 6.5'' protos vs. a Surly Lou. Both on 103mm rims.
    (Note: the Surly tire is the one on the right):

    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!-new-vs-lou-both-103mm.jpg

  25. #25
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    Do they work, Espen?

    I don't really see their sizes being that much less than any other manufacturer. The casing of the 4.9 was 111mm on 80mm rim(with tubes iirc). According to the true tyre size thread, only 2mm less than bud. But it's a taller tyre, so decent volume.

    Useless tread though, with no wrap, and no bite in the snow.

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post

    Do they work, Espen?

    ....

    Useless tread though, with no wrap, and no bite in the snow.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Never tried them.
    My frame and fork is absolutely maxxed out with my beloved and olde proto 2XLs (currently 5.6'' front and 5.7'' rear)

    The thread pattern is useless for sure. Knobs have ramps on all sides. I let them know that back in 2015, but no changes were made.
    If they had used the pattern from the 4.x tires and normal casing thickness, they could have been decent.
    Last edited by Espen W; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:00 PM.

  27. #27
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    This bike will be too heavy

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  28. #28
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    I hope things keep progressing, that tire is huge!

  29. #29
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    Wow, a 2.8kg tire.

    I think people will soon find the limit in tire width and it will be their fitness not the frame.


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  30. #30
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    Ditto!

    ...anyone making a 13 Spd w/60T low gear to help climb the hills with those Monster Truck Tires?

  31. #31
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    Yes I agree the tire is too heavy, just like the overbuilt 2XL is much heavier than it needs to be. But for fuks sake I swear some on this forum seem to post negative comments towards anything that discusses bigger tires than are already available. Itís like penis envy or insecurity about the size of your wang. Iím sorry you bought your Pugsly back in 20__ with your giant Endomorph tires on massive 65mm wheels and now you are pissed anytime something new gets brought up about yet another tire your antique bike canít fit.

    Itís amazing fatbiking even got this far with the tire size haters always wanting to hold things back because their geriatric hips and knees canít handle pedaling anything beyond a 100mm BB.

    Bring out a 6Ē wide tire that is built on the same case as a Jumbo Jim or Lou and watch people migrate to it and how the haters will continue to complain how we never needed anything more than a 5.2Ē and pedaling such a bike will cause you to lose too much weight too fast that youíll pass out at work, lose your job, your wife will leave you and youíll be homeless.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Yes I agree the tire is too heavy, just like the overbuilt 2XL is much heavier than it needs to be. But for fuks sake I swear some on this forum seem to post negative comments towards anything that discusses bigger tires than are already available. Itís like penis envy or insecurity about the size of your wang. Iím sorry you bought your Pugsly back in 20__ with your giant Endomorph tires on massive 65mm wheels and now you are pissed anytime something new gets brought up about yet another tire your antique bike canít fit.

    Itís amazing fatbiking even got this far with the tire size haters always wanting to hold things back because their geriatric hips and knees canít handle pedaling anything beyond a 100mm BB.

    Bring out a 6Ē wide tire that is built on the same case as a Jumbo Jim or Lou and watch people migrate to it and how the haters will continue to complain how we never needed anything more than a 5.2Ē and pedaling such a bike will cause you to lose too much weight too fast that youíll pass out at work, lose your job, your wife will leave you and youíll be homeless.
    Methinks you want fatter tires for better float and easier navigation through the deep. So just think of your current ďskinniesĒ as a way to work harder. Looks like you want that, so you should be happy. 😂😂😂
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Yes I agree the tire is too heavy, just like the overbuilt 2XL is much heavier than it needs to be. But for fuks sake I swear some on this forum seem to post negative comments towards anything that discusses bigger tires than are already available. Itís like penis envy or insecurity about the size of your wang. Iím sorry you bought your Pugsly back in 20__ with your giant Endomorph tires on massive 65mm wheels and now you are pissed anytime something new gets brought up about yet another tire your antique bike canít fit.

    Itís amazing fatbiking even got this far with the tire size haters always wanting to hold things back because their geriatric hips and knees canít handle pedaling anything beyond a 100mm BB.

    Bring out a 6Ē wide tire that is built on the same case as a Jumbo Jim or Lou and watch people migrate to it and how the haters will continue to complain how we never needed anything more than a 5.2Ē and pedaling such a bike will cause you to lose too much weight too fast that youíll pass out at work, lose your job, your wife will leave you and youíll be homeless.
    Well you are maybe 1 of those haters. Maybe you hate facts.
    The reality is a diameter larger than a 26x4.8 like Bud/Lou
    - does not fit most frames so the market is too small
    - does not fit a small frame so will not be a financial success
    you can blame me but studs eating toes is a mistake.
    - does not accelerate so it is better to use snowshoes
    to pack that white powder.
    - years ago the youtube video about the 5.05 tire was terrible
    the rider had to sprint for 10 seconds after coming fullspeed
    downhill to pretend he could float on deep snow.
    - in 3 years i never come across these giant rubbers.

    You have seen the J5 with his split personality,
    - it is huge
    - it fits most frames
    tell me wich is the lie?
    That ridiculous thread on your great huge solution, i would not use that even free.

  34. #34
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    Sounds like you need to watch more of Espen videos to see what is possible with big tires.
    Last edited by Snowfat; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:33 PM. Reason: Bad spelling brah

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post

    you can blame me but studs eating toes is a mistake.
    My 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhals are studded and I have no idea what "Studs Eating Toes" means
    ...and you are the only one I've seen on MTBR referencing that term, several times, can you please elaborate?

    The toes on my Size 10 Boots are about 3" clear of my studded tires. (2018 19.5" Trek Farley 7)

    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!-toe-biter-lol.jpg

    Do you ride barefoot on a tiny bike with huge tires and size 18+ feet ?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckMountainMan View Post
    My 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhals are studded and I have no idea what "Studs Eating Toes" means
    ...and you are the only one I've seen on MTBR referencing that term, several times, can you please elaborate?

    The toes on my Size 10 Boots are about 3" clear of my studded tires. (2018 19.5" Trek Farley 7)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Do you ride barefoot on a tiny bike with huge tires and size 18+ feet ?
    You answered your question.
    I own the woman designed frame from Specialized, instead of being named a fatboy they named it Hellga, it is a 15.5. I am happy to use 45$US snowmobile boots because my clearance is thight. Sometimes starting in a trail i need to pedal fast to fight gravity and my feet is off the ideal position and i hear my gripstuds rubbing against my boot. It makes me laugh but imagine if i had one of those 300$ pair of boots.
    At 61 YO my spine lost about 1 in. and a small frame is great for my comfort even if my 34.5 inseem could use a large frame. Maybe your frame is designed on the long side but it simply would not allow me to be comfortable for 4-5 hours.

    For mountain bikes if my memory is correct Trek and other manufacturers do not offer 29ers in small nor XS. That is the reason.
    To do so years ago the frames were lower but too long. They probably got negative feedback.

    They are talking about tires of diameters worst than yours. Your is just a bit more than my Bud/Lou. Standards exist for a reason. Look at Trek 29+ people are stuck with them. No tire choices are available. I can buy plenty of used 26 and that is what i did and saved money. I have more rim options, mine are 90.

  37. #37
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    Let me understand this 33red: you have a 34.5 inch inseam and you ride a small frame? Seriously? Why?

    I am a only 5í6Ē and have a 29 inch inseam and normal torso and arms. I am on a large frame (Rocky Mountain Suzi Q). And if it wasnít for the very wide handlebars (760mm) I would probably get a longer stem. Picture of my bike ready to ride.

    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!-img_1980.jpg


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  38. #38
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    5'-10" with a 32" inseam fits my 19.5" Farley 7
    Most say the Farley cockpit is pretty compact compared to most.

    I'm no spring chicken myself with 56 just around the corner
    ...and I do appreciate that I'm not as stretched out as I was when I bought my Marin 20 years ago...

    The Trek felt massive at first, until I realized the extra Height also raised the BB
    along with the Seat and the Handle bar...and the stand over height is the same.

    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!-20181123_202322.jpg

    5.5 INCH WIDE TIRE! 26x5.5 is finally out!-20181123_203740.jpg
    Last edited by CanuckMountainMan; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:36 AM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Let me understand this 33red: you have a 34.5 inch inseam and you ride a small frame? Seriously? Why?

    I am a only 5í6Ē and have a 29 inch inseam and normal torso and arms. I am on a large frame (Rocky Mountain Suzi Q). And if it wasnít for the very wide handlebars (760mm) I would probably get a longer stem. Picture of my bike ready to ride.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I did not designed my body. I just know last march i was on my fat 14 days in a row 4-5 hrs and i had no pain. For me it means correct size. I use a 400 mm seatpost that was on a large and i raised the handlebars. I have no clue how to put a pic here but i read from pics on facebook that my bike is too small. My mountain bike is a med and i need to reverse the seatpost(it has 2 screws) to kind of shorten the frame. 4 years ago a shop sold me a large based on my legs and they had to take it back, it was impossible for me to find comfort.
    A pro fit me on a woman design road bike so i know my saddle has to be 30.25 +/_ a quarter. I test how forward my saddle needs to be to avoid knee pain than i adjust my cockpit for comfort. It works for me.
    I just bought a + bike, it is a 16 in and it needed a longer seatpost but the cockpit was real close to spot on for me after the bar was cut.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    I did not designed my body. I just know last march i was on my fat 14 days in a row 4-5 hrs and i had no pain. For me it means correct size. I use a 400 mm seatpost that was on a large and i raised the handlebars. I have no clue how to put a pic here but i read from pics on facebook that my bike is too small. My mountain bike is a med and i need to reverse the seatpost(it has 2 screws) to kind of shorten the frame. 4 years ago a shop sold me a large based on my legs and they had to take it back, it was impossible for me to find comfort.
    A pro fit me on a woman design road bike so i know my saddle has to be 30.25 +/_ a quarter. I test how forward my saddle needs to be to avoid knee pain than i adjust my cockpit for comfort. It works for me.
    I just bought a + bike, it is a 16 in and it needed a longer seatpost but the cockpit was real close to spot on for me after the bar was cut.
    So "studs eating toes" appears to be specific to you based on riding a much smaller than normal frame. (BTW, do not Google the phrase, you may find a whole different topic. )

    As to the topic, I see no significant market for such a tire. For the few that want/need that much float, check out the Ktrak.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    So "studs eating toes" appears to be specific to you based on riding a much smaller than normal frame....
    ...with large snow boots designed for sledding, that sometimes rest the heels on the pedals instead of the ball of foot when starting out due to fighting gravity and balance issues .

  42. #42
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    33redís issue doesnít have anything to do with extra fat tires, it has to do with buying the best bike for her body type. Itís has to do with studying geometry charts and visiting different bike shops and trying different bikes form them and friends. It has to do with buying a bike that has a slack head angle to kick the front tire further out in front of you. If a Hellga is like a Fatboy then it has a super steep head and fork angle out that brings the front tire closer. Also, riding too small of a frame with too long of a seat post will eventually cause frame failure as itíll likely crack at the seat tube weld. There are a number of posts on this forum showing that failure.

  43. #43
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    Aha, now I know who you are 33red. Yes your bike looks really cramped and small on FB. It would be a single speederís nightmare to have such cramped cockpit. But it works for you, so more power to you.

    BTW 33red is a man.


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    I enjoy that fatbike. It can only fit a tiny frame bag but i ride off trails and that real low top bar is a huge advantage. The year before i was riding a fatboy med and it was just too long for my comfort. You may not like my geometry but it is not for sale so it makes no difference to me. You call it extreme, i call it fun.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    I enjoy that fatbike. It can only fit a tiny frame bag but i ride off trails and that real low top bar is a huge advantage. The year before i was riding a fatboy med and it was just too long for my comfort. You may not like my geometry but it is not for sale so it makes no difference to me. You call it extreme, i call it fun.
    you might want to give The Mayor a ride. its got a more upright ride than a fatboy. Great bike IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADKMTNBIKER View Post
    you might want to give The Mayor a ride. its got a more upright ride than a fatboy. Great bike IMO.
    Thanks but i love my 20 speeds with a 22 in front i can climb everywhere and a reason i selected Specialized is they had 90 mm rims. I just do not have the power to carry an average front ring. It might be Great but maybe not for me. I just had 2 rides today and all the time i enjoy my 4.8 studded tires and my tiny gear.

  47. #47
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    Studs eating toes reminded me I need to clear my browser history

  48. #48
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    Espen W. I find your prototypes to be extremely exciting I have been waiting for a tire 6.5 inches wide so that is just on the point! How do you make these prototypes?
    btw hopefully someday 6.5 wide tire and 2WD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    I think people will soon find the limit in tire width and it will be their fitness not the frame.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah...I kinda agree. 4.5 - 5" seems to be optimal.

    I realize everyone has their own definition of "fun" but none of this looks fun to me. I prefer groomed and to put on some miles which is probably what 99% also want out of their fat bike purchase.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-hLzrOdBhc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KZdnRddV24

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usZQhBlKyM

  50. #50
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    Use jayemís glove method of measuring tread width and 6Ē tires are already widely available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Yeah...I kinda agree. 4.5 - 5" seems to be optimal.

    I realize everyone has their own definition of "fun" but none of this looks fun to me. I prefer groomed and to put on some miles which is probably what 99% also want out of their fat bike purchase.

    There are already dozens of tires aimed at you. Why do you care if something comes out that's targeted at people that have different conditions, and for whom 4.x is a non-starter?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Studs eating toes reminded me I need to clear my browser history

    I laughed.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    Either people don't care or they want to be trolls.
    PS: down vote all you want it will not get this post out of this world.
    the grinch has arrived to this forum post on CHAOYANG YETI CROSS welcome mr.mikesee
    or shall I say Mr.Grinch
    I agree...mikesee seems a bit aggressive

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    Griz, you've got it down correct!

    Their are so many people who dont want to see tires wider than 5 inches guess what kind of people those are?
    1. They want to be cool and they will be jealous if they don't have the widest tire!
    2. They are like people who can't see the future-just like people who say gasoline and diesel is better than electric--just sad so many people against wider tires
    I say lets see some ultra-wide tires, they may not sell well for normal city people but those who live in snowy mountainous areas like Park City Utah will definitely appreciate tires wider than 5 inches
    Did you know that artict bikes have used 8 inch tires (helen Skeleton) and 10 inches wide(2 2xl vee snow tires merged together)? The future is behind lets go into the future!
    btw: mikesee can't stop poking at normal comments, his skin is really green! (the grinch)

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    ^^^^gas is better than electric

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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    Donald,
    It appears to me you are missing the point of the ďnay-sayersĒ here.

    I canít be more clear; this particular tire is labeled by the manufacturer larger than it actually measured. Itís very heavy, the tread pattern is not good for traction, and the casing is very stiff.

    Those pushing the envelope and looking for a fatter tire have recognized that this is not it. Unless of course the production version is significantly different from the samples at the trade show.

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    That fact is, we need to move forward into the future, and people who canít stop complaining are the ones who want to move nowhere. At LEAST Chaoyang is pushing the limits and the future while a bunch of people are running around shouting why that would be bad. Chaoyang 5.5 yeti cross opens the door to wider fat bike tires

  58. #58
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    UNLESS you're riding exclusively deep and sticky fresh fallen snow or deep powder conditions while also being extremely fat or on a heavily loaded fat bike... there is zero requirement for tires wider than the production Vee Snowshoe 2XL. At 235 pounds riding weight on a 28 pound fat bike...all I need for actual tread width is 4 point 2 inches of Vee Bulldozer Silica compound tires to haul ass on all the trail networks I ride on in the winter.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    That fact is, we need to move forward into the future, and people who canít stop complaining are the ones who want to move nowhere. At LEAST Chaoyang is pushing the limits and the future while a bunch of people are running around shouting why that would be bad. Chaoyang 5.5 yeti cross opens the door to wider fat bike tires

    How many of them have you bought then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    UNLESS you're riding exclusively deep and sticky fresh fallen snow or deep powder conditions while also being extremely fat or on a heavily loaded fat bike... there is zero requirement for tires wider than the production Vee Snowshoe 2XL. At 235 pounds riding weight on a 28 pound fat bike...all I need for actual tread width is 4 point 2 inches of Vee Bulldozer Silica compound tires to haul ass on all the trail networks I ride on in the winter.
    4.2ís wouldnít float me for shit, whether the bike weighed 18lbs or 48 lbs. I bet fatbiking would be more popular if people were able to ride wider, bigger, higher floatation tires than whatís currently popular and comes stock on most bikes. I know lots of people whoíve tried fatbiking for the first time and thought it sucked because they were trenching out. Bigger tires let you ride more often in more varied conditions. The key is a light weight bigger tire, not the load range E type of construction like these chayo yangs are reported to be built like.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    UNLESS you're riding exclusively deep and sticky fresh fallen snow or deep powder conditions while also being extremely fat or on a heavily loaded fat bike...

    So right there you've recognized that there *are* instances when more float is beneficial. That's a start.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    all I need for actual tread width is 4 point 2 inches of Vee Bulldozer Silica compound tires to haul ass on all the trail networks I ride on in the winter.

    Lucky you. We aren't all so fortunate. Why would you be against other people having what they need to float them where they live and ride?

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    @ Donald,
    i am 61, my basic rule is common sense.
    I like most have nothing against big, bigger tires.
    I live in Montreal, Quebec and we have lots of weather swings.
    People who want to ride often need metal in their tires.
    Some pay for studs, some use screws because it is cheaper but many just complain about the price and use rubber only and some even ride summer tires in winter.
    -- The fact is few invest big $$ on tires.
    -- Since past 4.8 is a limited market they will be expensive and manufacturers will not benefit so your huge rims will be useless.
    -- We are simply tired of the BS so we express ourselves.

    You choose to read so deal with it.
    Stop being a cry baby is my suggestion.

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    Why is fat biking not as popular as skiing? Because tires cannot float on the thickest and most powdery snow in the world like skis. If we considered looking at 8-12 inch tires, we might see a spike in how popular fat bikes are, people will actually be able to go down the same hills skiers do, Iím not saying wider tires are good for city slickers like you, but for me and snowfat we will enjoy ultra-wide fat tires that can float like AMAZING

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There are already dozens of tires aimed at you. Why do you care if something comes out that's targeted at people that have different conditions, and for whom 4.x is a non-starter?
    It's not that I care. I was just stating that in my opinion the market isn't there for it to justify much beyond a 4.8"-5" tire width. Sales volume will be too low to justify the costs to produce it.

    Majority of us in the fat bike world ride groomed and like to put on miles...not fight deep snow such as shown in the videos I posted above.

    I understand your conditions are different and a wider tire makes sense if most of your riding is in fresh snow or consistently soft conditions. But I don't believe that is the case for the majority of us fat bikers. Anything wider than 5" becomes a special purpose tire. If there is actually a market for it, it remains to be seen.

  65. #65
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    Agreed that the number of people that ride ungroomed terrain is far fewer than those that ride groomed. Not sure about 99%, maybe more like 80%. But still -- even that disparity is enough to discourage investment.

    I feel lucky to have 2XL's, as I don't think the sales numbers have ever justified them producing that tire.

    I would love to see something bigger than 2XL that's equally if not more effective when it's deep, soft, and wind affected. I'm not holding my breath that that day will come.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Agreed that the number of people that ride ungroomed terrain is far fewer than those that ride groomed. Not sure about 99%, maybe more like 80%. But still -- even that disparity is enough to discourage investment.

    I feel lucky to have 2XL's, as I don't think the sales numbers have ever justified them producing that tire.

    I would love to see something bigger than 2XL that's equally if not more effective when it's deep, soft, and wind affected. I'm not holding my breath that that day will come.
    Do they groom trails in your area? Or do you just prefer to avoid groomed trails and go off the beaten path more often?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Do they groom trails in your area? Or do you just prefer to avoid groomed trails and go off the beaten path more often?

    The only groomed that we have access to (without driving ~2 hours each way) is wide enough to drive a schoolbus down, and straight enough to be inattentive while doing it. Basically road riding. Meh.

    We'll ride that once or twice a year, but for the rest it's off the beaten path.

  68. #68
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    Lack of volunteers in your area or not really groomable snow for some reason or other such as terrain?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Lack of volunteers in your area or not really groomable snow for some reason or other such as terrain?
    Sort of a catch 22:

    -400" of snow on average (140" already this year, and Dec/Jan are the dry months) means you have to groom non-stop to keep things packed in, or at least visible.
    -It's all over 10k', so what falls is typically extremely light and dry. Packable in a sense, but something like 2% moisture content so it just doesn't stick to itself.
    -Stock fatbikes have crap geo and too-small tires to make riding this sort of snow much fun for John Q. Public. Closer to weightlifting than what most think of as riding.
    -Thus the public isn't much interested in riding these trails, and with little push from riders there's zero impetus to groom.

    I've been riding these winter trails for almost 20 years now. With the exception of the friends that I take along with, I've now seen other fatbike tracks out there twice. In 20 years...

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    I often ride the 8-12í wide groomed trails just to use to get some place more fun and interesting. If thatís all I had to ride I doubt Iíd ride as often. But, even on groomed, there are many times when Iíve punched through or was leaving a rut because 4.6Ē tires didnít float me for the conditions.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    Why is fat biking not as popular as skiing? Because tires cannot float on the thickest and most powdery snow in the world like skis. If we considered looking at 8-12 inch tires, we might see a spike in how popular fat bikes are, people will actually be able to go down the same hills skiers do, Iím not saying wider tires are good for city slickers like you, but for me and snowfat we will enjoy ultra-wide fat tires that can float like AMAZING
    Dude, 5 inch wide skis float because they're 5-6 feet long. 5 inch wide fat bike tires don't float because the contact patch tiny compared to skis. If you increase the width to 5.5 inches, you're barely increasing the contact patch. Fat bike tires will never ever float like skis. By putting these massively wide tires on fat you're adding a tiny amount more surface area at the expense of huge amounts of additional rotational weight. Fat bikes are already generally heavy and no one is going to want to pounds to their fat bikes to gain a barely noticeable amount of float.

    I live in a part of country where it snow a lot. My fat bike has 5 inch tires and certainly does not float, 1/2 an inch extra isn't making a difference.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Dude, 5 inch wide skis float because they're 5-6 feet long. 5 inch wide fat bike tires don't float because the contact patch tiny compared to skis. If you increase the width to 5.5 inches, you're barely increasing the contact patch. Fat bike tires will never ever float like skis...
    Good point.

    It points to us needing an alternative to ever increasing tyre girth, and possibly something that doesn't look like a bike as we know it...
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Good point.

    It points to us needing an alternative to ever increasing tyre girth, and possibly something that doesn't look like a bike as we know it...
    Ya sometimes we might move later to enjoy fatbiking or ABC. Do you have a kite community? Some do it on water or skis or some board. In a parc near my house a young man was having a blast being pulled by his dog, he was probably on a snowdoard without bindings and for the uphills he was pushing with 1 foot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Dude, 5 inch wide skis float because they're 5-6 feet long. 5 inch wide fat bike tires don't float because the contact patch tiny compared to skis. If you increase the width to 5.5 inches, you're barely increasing the contact patch. Fat bike tires will never ever float like skis. By putting these massively wide tires on fat you're adding a tiny amount more surface area at the expense of huge amounts of additional rotational weight. Fat bikes are already generally heavy and no one is going to want to pounds to their fat bikes to gain a barely noticeable amount of float.

    I live in a part of country where it snow a lot. My fat bike has 5 inch tires and certainly does not float, 1/2 an inch extra isn't making a difference.
    Fat skis float much better than skinny skis, thatís why they became so popular for downhill powder skiing. An extra 1/8Ē per side of your tire helps you float better, and extra 1/2Ē is huge and that you canít tell the difference shows me you are not riding your bike on soft snow surfaces. The next time a warm spell hits, go ride your bike with 20 psi in the tires. Measure them and then air them down to 2psi, measure them again and immediately ride the same section of trail. Then come back on here and post you canít tell the difference between tire widths.

    There is certainly a limit to how wide and tall fatbike tires can get but some of us think we havenít hit that limit yet. Hereís the great thing about the whole deal, you donít have to buy bigger tires or a new frame or bike if something amazing comes out. Just be prepared for me to come riding by and steal your hot girlfriend while you are trenched out on some trail, sour faced and foul mouthed cursing the conditions & lack of grooming. In the meantime your now former girlfriend will be wondering why she ever even decided to ride with you and will follow me back to my place, happily riding in my girthy 2XL tire tracks.

  75. #75
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    Snowfat and I are the only people here who get the point. All these salty people should shut their computer and not look and respond to the forum post, all they come here to do is to hold back wider tires from coming, maybe they are even trolls payed by lazy bike tire company's who don't want to make wider tires.
    All these people saying that 1/8-1/4-1/2 inch wider tire doesnt help just dont understand! They probably have never tried the difference between 2 fat tires, (and they probably dont test different pressure) this forum post is for wider tires not skinny salty people!

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Fat skis float much better than skinny skis, thatís why they became so popular for downhill powder skiing. An extra 1/8Ē per side of your tire helps you float better, and extra 1/2Ē is huge and that you canít tell the difference shows me you are not riding your bike on soft snow surfaces. The next time a warm spell hits, go ride your bike with 20 psi in the tires. Measure them and then air them down to 2psi, measure them again and immediately ride the same section of trail. Then come back on here and post you canít tell the difference between tire widths.

    There is certainly a limit to how wide and tall fatbike tires can get but some of us think we havenít hit that limit yet. Hereís the great thing about the whole deal, you donít have to buy bigger tires or a new frame or bike if something amazing comes out. Just be prepared for me to come riding by and steal your hot girlfriend while you are trenched out on some trail, sour faced and foul mouthed cursing the conditions & lack of grooming. In the meantime your now former girlfriend will be wondering why she ever even decided to ride with you and will follow me back to my place, happily riding in my girthy 2XL tire tracks.
    I was comparing the float of fat skis to fat tires and why fat tires will never float like fat skis.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    Snowfat and I are the only people here who get the point. All these salty people should shut their computer and not look and respond to the forum post, all they come here to do is to hold back wider tires from coming, maybe they are even trolls payed by lazy bike tire company's who don't want to make wider tires.
    All these people saying that 1/8-1/4-1/2 inch wider tire doesnt help just dont understand! They probably have never tried the difference between 2 fat tires, (and they probably dont test different pressure) this forum post is for wider tires not skinny salty people!
    Plenty of people here understand the need and want for wider 5"+ tires.

    The problem in the tire being discussed is in now way better than what's already available. It is no where near the claimed 5.5" wide, the casing is far too stiff, and the tread pattern is not appropriate for riding in deep unpacked snow.

  78. #78
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    I understand the need for the super fat tyres, especially for you western riders on ungroomed mountain passes. I want to be able to ride everything, so I'd like to have them. Where I'm at, those tyres are useful a few times a year. After a couple rides on the local trails, things get packed in, and then those tyres are detrimental to rolling speed.

    The problem is this: Take Marquette, for example. Some call it the fatbike capital of the world. Lots of riders on fatbikes. Hundreds of inches of snow. Big group rides multiple times per week, all year long. You'd think it'd be a prime place for 2xl and Johnny 5 types. But I saw lots of barbegazi, flow, dunder, dilli 4 and 5. The fatbike scene is so big that everything gets groomed, almost daily, with specialized grooming sleds, rokons, or snow dogs. You'd be silly to try to mush thru a foot of ungroomed snow.

    And even here in the Lower Michigan area, there are half a dozen significant local chapters. All but one (I think) have track sleds or snowmobile groomers, even though groom worthy snow is the exception.

    Everywhere you get a large pocket of dedicated fat riders, you've got groomed trails rising up to meet the demand. So who are you marketing 5+ inch tyres to? Small pockets of riders in lesser populated areas. It's a relatively small and shrinking market (percentage wise, anyway).

    I support these tyres, but understand they aren't an easy sell.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Plenty of people here understand the need and want for wider 5"+ tires.

    The problem in the tire being discussed is in now way better than what's already available. It is no where near the claimed 5.5" wide, the casing is far too stiff, and the tread pattern is not appropriate for riding in deep unpacked snow.

    But other than those minor niggling details...

    ...btw, why are YOU SUCH A HATER?! Don't you 'get' that only captain big spoon and his soulmate snowfat little spoon understand what's really at stake here?!

    /sarcasm.

  80. #80
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    This is pretty much my view in terms of market demand for the 5+ tires. I live in Chelsea Quebec and there are so many riders on the trails that it's naturally groomed on the same day as a new snow fall. We don't need any grooming machines here for that reason. As AllMountin said, the areas that have the larges amount of fatbike buyers also have the best maintained trails that really don't require any float at all.

    For me personally, my house backs onto a snowshoe trail network that is more 'backcountry' but still sees very good snowshoe and fatbike traffic. I prefer the less travelled trails, so for me, I do need more float than others, but once the trails are packed, big tires are overkill.

    So...I'd imagine the vast majority of fatbikes first of all don't see any or little snow, and a very good percentage of the rest are purchased by users in well populated areas where big tires aren't necessary. The 5+ market really is likely much smaller than most think.

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    I think most people understand the size of the market for uber fat tires. It is only a few with a unique vision that think build them and they will sell has no upper limits.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    But other than those minor niggling details...

    ...btw, why are YOU SUCH A HATER?! Don't you 'get' that only captain big spoon and his soulmate snowfat little spoon understand what's really at stake here?!

    /sarcasm.
    Mikesee, are you going to give me more negative rep for disagreeing with your piss poor advice recommending a fricking steering damper for a fat bike to some unknowing member? Maybe you should ride something modern with a slack head angle and you wouldnít need a device developed for use on high speed desert racing motorcycles. Seriously, you recommended a steering damper for human powered vehicle that travels well under 10 miles per hour in the snow conditions he had an issue. Are you sponsored by the damper manufacture as well?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Mikesee, are you going to give me more negative rep for disagreeing with your piss poor advice recommending a fricking steering damper for a fat bike to some unknowing member? Maybe you should ride something modern with a slack head angle and you wouldnít need a device developed for use on high speed desert racing motorcycles. Seriously, you recommended a steering damper for human powered vehicle that travels well under 10 miles per hour in the snow conditions he had an issue. Are you sponsored by the damper manufacture as well?
    Do you ride in the conditions that he rides in? Didn't think so, so you have no idea what works there.

    Have you ridden the length of the Iditarod trail completely self supported? Didn't think so...

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Do you ride in the conditions that he rides in? Didn't think so, so you have no idea what works there.

    Have you ridden the length of the Iditarod trail completely self supported? Didn't think so...
    You think he hasn't and that mikesee has!? I bet mikesee has never tried the difference between a 4.6 inch tire and a 5.05 inch tire, he's probably too wet after being stuck in the snow to notice

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    You think he hasn't and that mikesee has!? I bet mikesee has never tried the difference between a 4.6 inch tire and a 5.05 inch tire, he's probably too wet after being stuck in the snow to notice
    Really?
    Have you ever ridden your Fuji in snow?
    Tell use all about it.

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    I've used it in the numerous times, I upgraded the system to a 1x10 and the biggest gear was upgraded. It rides well on the snow

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    You think he hasn't and that mikesee has!? I bet mikesee has never tried the difference between a 4.6 inch tire and a 5.05 inch tire, he's probably too wet after being stuck in the snow to notice
    You obviously don't know who mikesee actually is. Go do some research and then get back to us.

    Here is a good place to start: Mike Curiak: Finding the Edge of Human Endurance | The Bicycle Story

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    For people here that were around back in 2007ish....on the 29er forum...there was a user named "David Copperfield". Oh, the posts were amazballs!

    History tends to repeat itself....
    We have a new David Copperfield

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    I've used it in the numerous times, I upgraded the system to a 1x10 and the biggest gear was upgraded. It rides well on the snow
    What are you using for tires?
    What type of snow?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    What are you using for tires?
    What type of snow?
    Who is David Copperfield what did he do?
    im using jumbo jims 4.8
    i like to go when the powder is fresh and flotation is important!

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    For people here that were around back in 2007ish....on the 29er forum...there was a user named "David Copperfield". Oh, the posts were amazballs!

    History tends to repeat itself....
    We have a new David Copperfield
    I was around then, and remember him well! I don't think we're quiet to that level yet though...

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Do you ride in the conditions that he rides in? Didn't think so, so you have no idea what works there.

    Have you ridden the length of the Iditarod trail completely self supported? Didn't think so...
    Thats an interesting comment, you have no idea what type of conditions I ride in either but you discount my knowledge and experience in the same manner of the behavior you are accusing me of portraying.

    Oh yes, how could anyone forget the guyís main claim to fame was riding a packed snowmobile trail in Alaska as the end all be all. We are only reminded of it at least once a day.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Thats an interesting comment, you have no idea what type of conditions I ride in either but you discount my knowledge and experience in the same manner of the behavior you are accusing me of portraying.
    So how about you tell us and show us what kind of riding you do? pictures and videos are always helpful. Where do you ride? what kind of snow and trails? What tires have you tried and how did they work? Pressures? Bike geometry? How many years (or decades) have you bee doing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Oh yes, how could anyone forget the guyís main claim to fame was riding a packed snowmobile trail in Alaska as the end all be all. We are only reminded of it at least once a day.
    I'm not sure how you're getting these reminders at least once a day, but you're obviously not listening to them. And if you think that's his main (or only) claim to fame, and you think the Iditarod is a 'packed snowmobile trail' than you are truly hopeless.

    I'm done with this. If you can't understand why this tire sucks you cannot be reasoned with.

  94. #94
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    Wait, are we arguing that Mike, the guy with the custom frame with 217 axles doesn't want bigger tires?

    Trying to track this thread,

    - big heavy tire that doesn't actually exist
    -old Canadian guy on a oddly sized Helga wears his shoes out with grip studs
    -odd general angst against Mike, narrow tires, fat tires, life in general.

    Had a question for espen, didn't want to derail thread. Not possible to get any weirder so I'll ask anyway.

    Espen, when vee sent they prototype 2xls did the manufacture them in a traditional manner? I.e. did the machine a billet die for that size carcass already? Or do they have another means of doing the small one offs like 3d printing on the casing?

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comfisherman View Post
    Wait, are we arguing that Mike, the guy with the custom frame with 217 axles doesn't want bigger tires?

    Trying to track this thread,

    - big heavy tire that doesn't actually exist
    -old Canadian guy on a oddly sized Helga wears his shoes out with grip studs
    -odd general angst against Mike, narrow tires, fat tires, life in general.
    Those are most of the bullet points.
    You can add the original poster...who is arguing...has another post asking what pressure he can run in his tires.
    You can't make this stuff up.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Pikachu View Post
    I've used it in the numerous times, I upgraded the system to a 1x10 and the biggest gear was upgraded. It rides well on the snow
    Pics or it didn't happen.
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  97. #97
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    ďThink of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.Ē

    ― George Carlin

    I think we have found a couple people that reside on the far left of the bell curve.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    So how about you tell us and show us what kind of riding you do? pictures and videos are always helpful. Where do you ride? what kind of snow and trails? What tires have you tried and how did they work? Pressures? Bike geometry? How many years (or decades) have you bee doing this?



    I'm not sure how you're getting these reminders at least once a day, but you're obviously not listening to them. And if you think that's his main (or only) claim to fame, and you think the Iditarod is a 'packed snowmobile trail' than you are truly hopeless.

    I'm done with this. If you can't understand why this tire sucks you cannot be reasoned with.
    I have this thing called a full time job and am not going to spend the time and effort documenting the time I spend riding a bicycle.

    Me hopeless? Have you ever bothered to research the Iditrod trail or follow the sled dog or snowmobile race? See there are these things called check points that are conveniently located in these things called villages or proper towns. The trail is used by the locals to travel back and forth between settlements all winter before the races even start. So no, he did not ride a self supported trip on the packed down and marked trail. He mailed things to himself in advance, resupplyed at the settlements and slept inside heated dwellings when available and even ate hot food that was available. How the fuk do you think the first competitors raced on normal sized MTB tires when the race first started if it wasnít packed down from all the snowmobile and dog team traffic? Just like the Iron Dog and Iditarod racers stay in dwellings along the trail, the same thing is available to the bicycle racers, skiers and walkers. Their problem is they canít make the distance between many of the checkpoints and have to sleep in a tent on occasion but itís nothing like the trip the one guy recently completed transversing Antarctica, unsupported with no one or anything out there.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post

    I think we have found a couple people that reside on the far left of the bell curve.
    Yup! A couple of Chuck 'n Nans.
    "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway" John Wayne

  100. #100
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    This thread got gold damn quick.
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

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