45Nrth Dillinger 4 versus Terrene Cake Eater 4.0- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    45Nrth Dillinger 4 versus Terrene Cake Eater 4.0

    After racing the MN Arctic Fever Fat Bike race this past weekend in 5F temps and with 30% of the course being polished ice, I've had it with my Vee Snowshoe XL 4.8 tires. They roll so slow in cold temps, and the grip just wasn't what I needed, even after I changed out the Vee stock pointy studs to flat tip studs (Which did help with grip, but just not enough).

    So I am in the market for some new fast rolling studded tires. I have a set of wheels with Dunderbeist and Flowbeist tires, and those meet my needs for a lot of the riding I do in the midwest (Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota). I am riding mostly groomed trails, or groomed with some fresh snow over them, and the beists have been incredible. But over the past two years we've had some freeze thaw cycles in the middle of winter that often result in ice on the trail. So I want something studded for when the ice hits. Also, I want something that is fast rolling, and since I'm not looking to ride through deep powder, I want to stick with a 4" tire. My 4.8" Vee tires feel like they just slide over the snow/ice instead of biting down in to the surface.

    I've narrowed it down to the Dillingers, Cake Eaters, and maybe the Wazias. The Dillinger 4's seem to be pretty popular at the races around here. The Cake Eaters are relatively new so I am not finding a lot of reviews of them. Has anybody ridden the Cake Eaters and the Dillingers that would be able to help me decide between these two tires?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    So I just installed the Studded 4.6 Cake Eaters last week and had two rides on them so far. Both packed snow over ice and fresh 6 inch on grass. I never slipped at all until I was trying to start on an incline in the fresh 6 inch area. One of my rides was down a hill on a packed dirt road at speeds of 16mph according to Strava. I gave up before the tires lost traction just because I am still so new at it and a little uneasy at speed. Will try the same Hill decent next weekend and will push a little faster to see what they have. Sorry no experience with the Dillinger.

  3. #3
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    Iíve run both the Wazia and Cake Eaters in non snow condition (non studded) in the warmer months. I personaly feel that the CE is a much faster rolling tire that the Wazia. But cannot comment on a comparison in snow. I run Wazia 4.6 studded in winter.

  4. #4
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    i have had Cakies 27.5x4 on 65's for a few months now. They roll fast, and have tremendous side lugs. Center tread is serrated, which is nice on wet rock/root.

    I ran them in wet and dry snow, and, well, definitely not my favorite setup. My wrathchilds crush them. Much larger knobs, wider tread

    However, I think i will take the cakie over the hodag. So, my plan is to run them in non snow conditions. my 2 cents...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    i have had Cakies 27.5x4 on 65's for a few months now. They roll fast, and have tremendous side lugs. Center tread is serrated, which is nice on wet rock/root.

    I ran them in wet and dry snow, and, well, definitely not my favorite setup. My wrathchilds crush them. Much larger knobs, wider tread

    However, I think i will take the cakie over the hodag. So, my plan is to run them in non snow conditions. my 2 cents...
    Interesting to hear about the CE's in the snow. I was considering some 27.5x4 versions for warmer weather use.

  6. #6
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    I have the D5, D4s and Cake Eaters 27.5x4 all studded. My everyday tire is the D5 and the D4's i got for racing. most of the tracks around here are packed and usually icy. Of all of them the Dillingers roll the best and i would say the D5 is my favorite. However if the course is really icy i like the D4 as it puts more pressure on the studs and float is not an issue. where it gets tricky is the CE is close in rolling resistance but it is taller in overall diameter. this makes if go over things better than the D4. the CE is about the same OD as the D5 but is has more ground pressure for better ice traction. if you can only have one and are looking for a fast packed to icy race tire i would say D4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    I have the D5, D4s and Cake Eaters 27.5x4 all studded. My everyday tire is the D5 and the D4's i got for racing. most of the tracks around here are packed and usually icy. Of all of them the Dillingers roll the best and i would say the D5 is my favorite. However if the course is really icy i like the D4 as it puts more pressure on the studs and float is not an issue. where it gets tricky is the CE is close in rolling resistance but it is taller in overall diameter. this makes if go over things better than the D4. the CE is about the same OD as the D5 but is has more ground pressure for better ice traction. if you can only have one and are looking for a fast packed to icy race tire i would say D4.
    Thanks for the great comparison. Have you run them in soft snow conditions? I'm on D5's and love them in just about everything but I wonder if there might be a "baby-step" gain in traction out there without giving up the good rolling of the D5's. Had Bud-Lou combo previously. Awesome traction but they would slow to a stop sometimes on downhills! Couldn't believe the difference.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    I have the D5, D4s and Cake Eaters 27.5x4 all studded. My everyday tire is the D5 and the D4's i got for racing. most of the tracks around here are packed and usually icy. Of all of them the Dillingers roll the best and i would say the D5 is my favorite. However if the course is really icy i like the D4 as it puts more pressure on the studs and float is not an issue. where it gets tricky is the CE is close in rolling resistance but it is taller in overall diameter. this makes if go over things better than the D4. the CE is about the same OD as the D5 but is has more ground pressure for better ice traction. if you can only have one and are looking for a fast packed to icy race tire i would say D4.
    Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I would likely use these tires mostly for racing.

  9. #9
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    I was actually out this morning on the D5s in about 3 inches of powder over a packed base. traction was good but i think the d4's would have cut through better and hooked up on the packed base.

    A lot of it comes to course conditions. if it a packed course i would go narrower for less RR and better ice traction. if softer course i would run the D5's. they will give you traction on the ice but also float.

    If you are looking for a baby-step in traction go D4. they roll just as well on packed trails and will give you better ice traction. just make sure you don't need float. that will be noticeably lacking compared to your D5s

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkowski View Post
    After racing the MN Arctic Fever Fat Bike race this past weekend in 5F temps and with 30% of the course being polished ice, I've had it with my Vee Snowshoe XL 4.8 tires. They roll so slow in cold temps, and the grip just wasn't what I needed,

    Clarify: the grip on snow, or ice, wasn't what you needed?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Clarify: the grip on snow, or ice, wasn't what you needed?
    I had good grip on the polished ice (Not as good as my friend who was running grip studs and blew by me on the glare ice in a turn), but enough that I wasn't worried about sliding out. But where I really struggled was any time I strayed off of the packed in track from the riders ahead of me. Once the Snowshoe tires hit the transition from a packed trail to soft snow, the front end would slide out. They just couldn't handle the transition well. I feel like it was a lack of grip in the side knobs on the tire.

    So what I am looking for is a tire that has some bite. Looking at the profiles, the Dillingers seem to have a more aggressive side lug, but looks can be deceiving. I was hoping to get some feedback from those who have ridden the cake eaters to get insights on how the tire handles the transition from packed to loose snow.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkowski View Post
    I had good grip on the polished ice (Not as good as my friend who was running grip studs and blew by me on the glare ice in a turn), but enough that I wasn't worried about sliding out. But where I really struggled was any time I strayed off of the packed in track from the riders ahead of me. Once the Snowshoe tires hit the transition from a packed trail to soft snow, the front end would slide out. They just couldn't handle the transition well. I feel like it was a lack of grip in the side knobs on the tire.

    So what I am looking for is a tire that has some bite. Looking at the profiles, the Dillingers seem to have a more aggressive side lug, but looks can be deceiving. I was hoping to get some feedback from those who have ridden the cake eaters to get insights on how the tire handles the transition from packed to loose snow.

    Good info.

    I don't know what your specific conditions are like, but in any soft snow I've ridden the XL's have better soft-snow grip than anything you're considering.

    Probably the only thing that's going to improve on it will be the Wrathchlid.

    Essentially, if you want it to be better in soft snow you have to give up some speed on hardpack. No free lunch.

  13. #13
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    My Cake Eaters do the exact same thing when switching from packed snow to soft. It drives me nuts. I thought the larger side knobs would help, but it really hasnít. Almost no lateral grip.

    Iím probably going to bite the bullet and mount a Wrathchild up front. I might even try a Dillinger 5 if I can find a deal on one.

  14. #14
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    I can't comment on the D5's of D4's, I can comment on the CE that I just added to a fresh set of HED BAD wheelset I had built. Live in Western Michigan so snow conditions have been here for the to try some studded 4.6's and I will say, for being a newish rider in winter, these tires have me more confidence than I thought i would have. Roll fast, grip really well and just an awesome tire, sadly the 4.6's are a little large for my sram eagle and it causes the chain to rub a little, so I will be down sizing to 4.0's. I will throw this out there for $150 a tire, already studded, these are a dream.

    Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkowski View Post
    I had good grip on the polished ice (Not as good as my friend who was running grip studs and blew by me on the glare ice in a turn), but enough that I wasn't worried about sliding out. But where I really struggled was any time I strayed off of the packed in track from the riders ahead of me. Once the Snowshoe tires hit the transition from a packed trail to soft snow, the front end would slide out. They just couldn't handle the transition well. I feel like it was a lack of grip in the side knobs on the tire.

    So what I am looking for is a tire that has some bite. Looking at the profiles, the Dillingers seem to have a more aggressive side lug, but looks can be deceiving. I was hoping to get some feedback from those who have ridden the cake eaters to get insights on how the tire handles the transition from packed to loose snow.
    I'm in MN and ride predominantly at Elm Creek. I rode studded XL's for 1 season. Last year I rode a pair of FBF's that I drilled stud pockets and studded. This year I switched to Wrathchilds. Tire changes have been searching for good lateral grip/washout prevention.

    XL's were OK in straight line but were dicey on off camber or turning in loose snow. I had pointy studs then switched to flat tip that seemed to help ice grip some. They got pretty slow when it was cold.

    FBF looked like beefy tread that seemed like it would grip well. It was probably a little better than XL's for washout. They seemed to hold on better but when they went they went. My ice grip was pretty good with just 130 studs. I rode the trails that were luge tracks with them last year after all the warmth and rain. I rode some Bud/Lous through same exact drifted golf course this fall back to back with FBF and couldn't get them to slide so I decided it was either grip stud a set of Buds or go with Wrathchilds.

    Went with Wrathchilds. They seem pretty good in packed conditions. I rode them Sunday and finished my ride at 6 in a couple inches of the fluffy snow. They seemed to grip pretty good. Overall there almost seems to be a dead spot between the outer most row of lugs and the center tread. If you hit the deadspot it'll slide a little but then the outer lugs or center lugs grab and you can save it. They do grip much better than the FBF's too. I've never ridden any size dillinger or Terrene for comparison.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkowski View Post
    I had good grip on the polished ice (Not as good as my friend who was running grip studs and blew by me on the glare ice in a turn), but enough that I wasn't worried about sliding out. But where I really struggled was any time I strayed off of the packed in track from the riders ahead of me. Once the Snowshoe tires hit the transition from a packed trail to soft snow, the front end would slide out. They just couldn't handle the transition well. I feel like it was a lack of grip in the side knobs on the tire.

    So what I am looking for is a tire that has some bite. Looking at the profiles, the Dillingers seem to have a more aggressive side lug, but looks can be deceiving. I was hoping to get some feedback from those who have ridden the cake eaters to get insights on how the tire handles the transition from packed to loose snow.
    With this info i would say look at the Wazia and the Wrathchild. the Wazia will roll faster and have good loose snow grip. the wrathchild will have better loose grip but more rolling resistance. then pick based on your conditions.

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    Thanks to all who have responded with their experience, suggestions, and advice.

    I am very happy with my Dunderbeist and Flowbeist tires on the groomed trails I usually ride and also in the 4" of fresh snow I got to ride in this past Monday. For being aggressive tires they also roll surprisingly well. If I am out riding for fun, I will happily sacrifice some speed for stability and traction. In fact, the Beists have really pushed me to get rid of my Snowshoes and look for something for racing. It sounds like arguments can be made for both the Dillinger and the cake eater to fit that need.

    Keep the info coming while I try to make a decision about which tires to go add to the quiver.

  18. #18
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    I am running the cake eaters on a 65mm rim. I wouldn't consider them great in the soft snow. But, I think that when talking about good tires in soft snow it's more about not making it suck more then actually being "good". With that being said I think they do exactly what they were meant for. A good, fast rolling tire that will give you the extra traction on slippery packed surface/ice and work very well on groomed or at least well packed trails.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    i have had Cakies 27.5x4 on 65's for a few months now. They roll fast, and have tremendous side lugs. Center tread is serrated, which is nice on wet rock/root.

    I ran them in wet and dry snow, and, well, definitely not my favorite setup. My wrathchilds crush them. Much larger knobs, wider tread

    However, I think i will take the cakie over the hodag. So, my plan is to run them in non snow conditions. my 2 cents...
    I'm thinking that 65 is the perfect rim width for 3.8"- 4.0" on dirt. Who the frig makes one in a 27.5?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    I'm thinking that 65 is the perfect rim width for 3.8"- 4.0" on dirt. Who the frig makes one in a 27.5?
    SunRingle offers their 27.5 mulefut in 50mm width, but not 65mm. I'm running some Jumbo Jim 4.0's on a set of Rabbit hole 50m rims for my dirt wheels and they are phenomenal. In fact, they are so good that after I put a Mastodon on my fat bike and got this wheel and tire combo, I decided I no longer need my hard tail 29er. If you are looking for a set of narrower 27.5's for dirt, maybe those would work for you.

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    I have a sun ringle mulefut in 65mm. They come as spec on the Rocky Mountain Suze Q. I do remember reading that they were made specifically for that bike but I would imagine a phone call might find you a pair.

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    I need to get rid of the Cake Eater 4.6 on the front of my Voytek. Its downright scary in corners. Itís washed out way too much and hasnít recovered.

    Iím thinking Wrathchild is the way to go.

  23. #23
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    Terrene Cake Walker 5.05 prototypes are at Speedway. Sick on 100s.
    ptarmigan hardcore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Terrene Cake Walker 5.05 prototypes are at Speedway. Sick on 100s.
    Any pics?

  25. #25
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    ptarmigan hardcore

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Must have.
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  27. #27
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    Resurrecting this thread for the new snow season. I appreciate the comparisons so far. Can anybody add a Gnarwhal comparison (studded, various snow & ice conditions)? TIA!

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  28. #28
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    I just got a new bike that only takes 2.8 tires, I have 2 fat bikes already.
    I put the brand new CE studded on this new bike. Rode 16 miles on frozen dirt
    and ice. I lost 6 studs on the rear and 2 on the front. I fixed 3 mor rear studs
    that were half out. Not good. I've run Dillinger 4 and 5 on my fatbikes for 5 years
    and only lost 2 studs on them in many many miles in the same conditions. Not Happy
    Northern NJ

  29. #29
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    I have d4's on my Pugsley. I put d5's on my ice cream truck. the studded dillingers are a great winter tire. roll easy and have decent hook up in the snow.
    on ice with water they are superb.

  30. #30
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    After riding 27.5 barbs and gnars the studded D4 is an excellent tire. I do not miss the float of my gnars. I even rode some soft groomed trail last weekend and they were totally fine. I wouldnt hesitates to suggest them to anyone

    Extremely fast tire, excellent ice traction and adequate float for 95% of the season.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    WTH?

    I can tell you with 100% confidence that we are not working on a Cake Eater that large. Or any tire that large. Our Johnny 5 is the largest tire we can make with our current layup machinery.
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon View Post
    WTH?

    I can tell you with 100% confidence that we are not working on a Cake Eater that large. Or any tire that large. Our Johnny 5 is the largest tire we can make with our current layup machinery.

    Fake news.

  33. #33
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    I love it 2 days shy of one year. Must be werking through all the emails from all the Advocate owners. The fuzzy sidewall of the CAKE WALKER is good for off camber icy trails, kind of like a Blizzak tire or a gecko foot.

    BTW Tim is no longer at Speedway so ask for Spencer or Harry.
    ptarmigan hardcore

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleidopete View Post
    I just got a new bike that only takes 2.8 tires, I have 2 fat bikes already.
    I put the brand new CE studded on this new bike. Rode 16 miles on frozen dirt
    and ice. I lost 6 studs on the rear and 2 on the front. I fixed 3 mor rear studs
    that were half out. Not good. I've run Dillinger 4 and 5 on my fatbikes for 5 years
    and only lost 2 studs on them in many many miles in the same conditions. Not Happy
    Cake Eater Update......I've stopped losing studs, I guess the rest have settled in.
    All is good now. It must have been a few that weren't seated properly?
    Great tires!
    Northern NJ

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleidopete View Post
    Cake Eater Update......I've stopped losing studs, I guess the rest have settled in.
    All is good now. It must have been a few that weren't seated properly?
    Great tires!
    i've heard others say you have to break in studded tires on the road first. did you do that before hitting the trail?

    I have been looking at the 2.8s for my stache
    2019 Trek Farley 9.6
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gendy View Post
    i've heard others say you have to break in studded tires on the road first. did you do that before hitting the trail?

    I have been looking at the 2.8s for my stache
    I currently run the Cake Eater 2.8 with a custom stud pattern (45NRTH concave standard inner, XL concave outer) on a Stache for hard packed snow and ice. Awesome set-up as far as I'm concerned. I did seat the studs in the fall - but only for about 6 or 7 miles - and have lost none.

    That said I have not seated all my studded setups in the past - but only when going directly onto the packed snow.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    I'm thinking that 65 is the perfect rim width for 3.8"- 4.0" on dirt. Who the frig makes one in a 27.5?

    Lithic makes their Rhyolite rims in ~65mm. I have them in stock in 27.5". Haven't bothered to order any in 26" because no one seems to want 26" fat wheels anymore.

    OK, that's a slight exaggeration. For every 40 sets of 27.5 x fat or 29+ wheels I build I'll build either one set of 26" fat or one set of 27.5+.

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