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Thread: 4.8 Knard?

  1. #1
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    4.8 Knard?

    http://surlybikes.com/parts/wheels/knard_26_x_4.8
    Details? Maybe they'll show it at Interbike?

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    Now where's the Bud 3.8 for the front of my Bucksaw?

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    I wonder what it weighs? I really liked the stock 3.8" Knard that came on my Fatback.

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    Re: 4.8 Knard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willum View Post
    Now where's the Bud 3.8 for the front of my Bucksaw?
    Its here: http://surlybikes.com/parts/wheels/nate_tire

  5. #5
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    4.8 Knard?

    I bet tons of new tires will be out of Interbike. Well not out buy announced. My LBS Cycle logical buddy/owner will be there. He will give a good report on fatbike stuff. He is gonna be riding the echo this winter after selling his yampa.

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    Yeah a 3.8" bud would be great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tundratrader View Post
    I bet tons of new tires will be out of Interbike. Well not out buy announced.
    Sadly that doesn't mean anything Surly announced a 29+ Dirt Wizard for last Interbike and we still don't have it....that's for a platform that has had only 1 tire too choose from for most of past 2 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Sadly that doesn't mean anything Surly announced a 29+ Dirt Wizard for last Interbike and we still don't have it....that's for a platform that has had only 1 tire too choose from for most of past 2 years.
    Yeah. Feeling itchy for that tire.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (officialy in 2016, functionally in 2020).

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    This sounds right up my alley, can't wait to see some weights.
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    Re the Dirt Wizzard, perhaps Surly ordered a boat load of Knards, but didn't sell as many as hoped (it's a poor tyre in my opinion) - so they're sitting on a pile of them, maybe the Dirt Wizzard is delayed until they've made a dent in the pile. Actually it's pretty poor to launch a new bike with only 1 tyre option for 2 years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Futon River Crossing View Post
    Knards, but didn't sell as many as hoped (it's a poor tyre in my opinion)
    do tell.

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    I NEED these......

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    Options are always good, but I don't see myself switching from BFLs to these. If I were switching from B/L to a more reasonable summer tire I'd go Jumbo Jim.

    If these start coming stock on Moonlanders I'd use em up before upgrading though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Nate is more of a Lou jr. The directional pattern and grip of the Bud can be quite spectacular in the right kind of snow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Nate is more of a Lou jr. The directional pattern and grip of the Bud can be quite spectacular in the right kind of snow.
    Interestingly Salsa's new Blackborrow 5" fatty uses Lous at both ends.
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    Are these yet available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-whiskey View Post
    Are these yet available?
    Qbp said that they will not be available til spring. I would imagine that means almost summer as new products go.

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    Well... spring has sprung. A pair of 4.8" Knards would be pretty nice right around now...

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    April.
    Worked at Trek/Fisher dealer 2008-2013. Only a little biased.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunderbuss View Post
    April.

    Promise?

  21. #21
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    Vaporware.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Vaporware.
    I don't think so. They've made a prototype already and it'd probably be a pretty good seller. Time will tell.

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    they've been talking about them for a year. Until we can buy them, they are vaporware. Last I heard, they're not available anywhere, for any price.

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    April is correct

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    Not my promise to promise. But QBP shows 4-1 eta.
    Worked at Trek/Fisher dealer 2008-2013. Only a little biased.

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    Double post. See below.
    Last edited by ultraspontane; 03-15-2015 at 10:08 PM.

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    Surly doesn't release new products anymore. They just announce them. Once people forget about this one, they'll announce another one that'll never get released.

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    Don't be so cynical. Surly has come a LONG way from the 1x1 days, and I get the impression the explosion of fat bikes (10 years since the Pugs was released) lately has forced them to scramble.

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    Right now I am torn between JJ and Knard 4.8". Now if they just madea 4.8" Hudu, I would be in heaven.

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    we all surely know what an april 1st release date means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Surly doesn't release new products anymore. They just announce them. Once people forget about this one, they'll announce another one that'll never get released.
    +1.

    I like a lot of their products and even humor but Surly's style wears thin sometimes. This is how not to do a product preview.



    vs.

    How to do a product preview and bring it to market:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzINzdJcfo

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
    +1.

    I like a lot of their products and even humor but Surly's style wears thin sometimes. This is how not to do a product preview.
    That's the beauty of QBP if you don't dig Surly you buy from 45N or one of their other brands and thinking you got to make a choice you still give the mothership your $$.
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    I always find that funny too "I'm not going to support Surly, I'll buy from Salsa (or 45Nrth or...) etc. vice-versa.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's the beauty of QBP if you don't dig Surly you buy from 45N or one of their other brands and thinking you got to make a choice you still give the mothership your $$.
    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    I always find that funny too "I'm not going to support Surly, I'll buy from Salsa (or 45Nrth or...) etc. vice-versa.
    For the record: The point I was trying to make wasn't that I am not supporting Surly in protest. Rather, it is clear that QBP is capable of hiring people (45Nrth) that can communicate with a customer base and bring products to market. How many people bought into 29er+ with the promise/hope of having a better tire available only to be stuck with knards for the past 2 years?

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    That Surly vid really shows how arrogant they are. It's one thing to make fun of the fact you can bring items to market, but it wouldn't kill them to be a little humble.

    The whole "we do what we want, when we want to do it, because we can" thing wears really thin....really ****ing fast.

    The public isn't alone in feeling this way. Ask some of the big dealers how they feel about their products, supply chain, inventory, and you will get some cross looks.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunderbuss View Post
    Not my promise to promise. But QBP shows 4-1 eta.
    April Fool's day. That's fitting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    That Surly vid really shows how arrogant they are. It's one thing to make fun of the fact you can bring items to market, but it wouldn't kill them to be a little humble.

    The whole "we do what we want, when we want to do it, because we can" thing wears really thin....really ****ing fast.

    The public isn't alone in feeling this way. Ask some of the big dealers how they feel about their products, supply chain, inventory, and you will get some cross looks.
    The whole "we're so ƒ@’king hipster, racing sucks, check out my sweet beard" schtick has worn rather thin. You nailed it, it's really arrogant. It's brilliant, in the same way that Harley Davidson has grown legions of loyal fanboy customers in spite of any semblance of performance and mediocre quality, but nonetheless, a little goes a long way. I'm over it.

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    Then there's the 29+ Dirt Wizards. I fully understand that the delay of the 29+ Dirt Wizards have destroyed your life and your will to ride. Maybe they'll be here sooner than we've let on. Maybe we just canceled them and we're leading you on. Maybe we've been delaying them because it's so entertaining to hear people whine. Maybe I should quit typing before I get into too much trouble.
    ^^^^ from the Surly Blog today.....
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    more Surly hipster douchery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    ^^^^ from the Surly Blog today.....
    Surly does well IN SPITE OF THEIR marketing department. It used to be that they made cool products that no one else made but the market is expanding and there are other options. Aren't they blowing out instigators for $599 with tires and rims? Cool useful products sell themselves with or without knarly beards and sarcastic dry wit humor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    The whole "we're so ƒ@’king hipster, racing sucks, check out my sweet beard" schtick has worn rather thin. You nailed it, it's really arrogant. It's brilliant, in the same way that Harley Davidson has grown legions of loyal fanboy customers in spite of any semblance of performance and mediocre quality, but nonetheless, a little goes a long way. I'm over it.
    Well said Gigantic!

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    I'm going to give this guy the benefit of doubt and say that its likely one of the two options below that applies to his poor product review.

    1) He is not comfortable in front of a camera.
    2) He was put in this position by surprise with little time to prepare.

    If neither of these are true then Surly really needs to find some better quality people to represent their products IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    ^^^^ from the Surly Blog today.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coneheadthebarbituit View Post
    I'm going to give this guy the benefit of doubt and say that its likely one of the two options below that applies to his poor product review.

    1) He is not comfortable in front of a camera.
    2) He was put in this position by surprise with little time to prepare.

    If neither of these are true then Surly really needs to find some better quality people to represent their products IMO.
    I`m looking for a new job!, Golf Course management fecking sucks here in Scotland despite being the home of golf!....
    I have no tatoos and am clean shaved. But bought my Surly bikes because there was at the time nothing else available, and i liked how they rode once i had used them.
    I still like them and i know how i would premote them-just by riding them and getting them out there on regular riders with pics and film and reviews... simples
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    I`m looking for a new job!, Golf Course management fecking sucks here in Scotland despite being the home of golf!....
    Must suck everywhere. Funny as I was doing the same thing in Florida 20 years ago....the hell with growing grass!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coneheadthebarbituit View Post
    I'm going to give this guy the benefit of doubt and say that its likely one of the two options below that applies to his poor product review.

    1) He is not comfortable in front of a camera.
    2) He was put in this position by surprise with little time to prepare.

    If neither of these are true then Surly really needs to find some better quality people to represent their products IMO.
    I've worked as a press liaison in the past. You absolutely have to be comfortable in front of a camera and crowds and if you are doing a trade show, you have got to be prepared. He knows his product and his delivery is deliberate. What you are seeing is the attitude that Surly have imbued in their brand; they're Surly, they dgaf and they want you to know that. By buying their products, you are telling the world that you dgaf, either. It is total hipster brand identification, sell attitude first. It is entirely calculated; they're trying to be cheeky and funny.

  47. #47
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    I just think they have been laughing at each other for so long they actually think they're funny, kinda like the inside joke syndrome.

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    yeah. Personally, I'm just done with arch and irony as a marketing tactic. I'd find it more appealing if they shifted their tack just a few degrees and embraced earnestness. Instead of saying "we don't make bikes for racing, we're different, [email protected]’k Heineken, Pabst Blue Ribbon!" maybe try saying "we take chances, do things a little differently, simply because we like having fun," and see how that works, instead of insulting the people that they want to buy their products...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's the beauty of QBP if you don't dig Surly you buy from 45N or one of their other brands and thinking you got to make a choice you still give the mothership your $$.
    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    I always find that funny too "I'm not going to support Surly, I'll buy from Salsa (or 45Nrth or...) etc. vice-versa.
    The parent company profiting or not has nothing to do with Surly. Revenues are still being reported by each sub-entity (Surly, Salsa, etc.). Taking away sales from Surly to another QBP company still affects Surly. When/if it comes to restructure, well, look back to see what happened at GM. Big companies shed poorly performing divisions all the time.

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    The parent company profiting or not has nothing to do with Surly. Revenues are still being reported by each sub-entity (Surly, Salsa, etc.). Taking away sales from Surly to another QBP company still affects Surly. When/if it comes to restructure, well, look back to see what happened at GM. Big companies shed poorly performing divisions all the time.
    Surly isn't going anywhere. If you don't buy as much of their product they may spend less on R&D which could cause some problems....lots of companies have R&D programs that go something like this:

    1. wait for Surly to come out with something new that's cool
    2. copy it
    3. sell copy cheaper
    4. complain bitterly how Surly is overpriced awful crap
    5. start again at 1
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Surly isn't going anywhere. If you don't buy as much of their product they may spend less on R&D which could cause some problems....lots of companies have R&D programs that go something like this:

    1. wait for Surly to come out with something new that's cool
    2. copy it
    3. sell copy cheaper
    4. complain bitterly how Surly is overpriced awful crap
    5. start again at 1
    To clarify, I wasn't saying that Surly's now about to be axed (then again, we've seen how some of these "Too big to fail" scenarios played out). Just making sure people understood that by not buying Surly and going with another QBP brand---it still does affect Surly, even if ultimately, QBP's bottom line doesn't change.

    My opinion regarding Surly: There were a few instances in the past that left a bad taste in my mouth. Mostly what has been discussed here. I like their bikes and currently have 3 in the garage. I like to support companies that...I like. Over the past few years, they're making it harder and harder to give my money to them, mainly due to their stupid shenanigans and elitest attitudes.

  53. #53
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    Meanwhile, while many of y'all were typing your fingers bloody/wringing your hands decrying the _____ marketing tactics, Knard 4.8's came into stock last week. Should be showing up in shops today/tomorrow.

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    I'm very very interested in some width measurements on the new Knard. I'm not so fond of the Bulldozer I have on back that does a terrible job of shedding mud and snow. Not a bad tire but it packs up pretty bad. This 4.8 knard looks gooooood.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Should be showing up in shops today/tomorrow.
    I called lbs yesterday to ask if any had been pre-ordered, and they had not. But he was going to place an order for a few for me. I am guessing he missed the boat on the first shipment though?

  56. #56
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    looks very sand happy....
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    Mine are supposed to be delivered on Thursday.

  58. #58
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    I saw them in the flesh yesterday. I can't wait to get a set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyrr496 View Post
    i saw them in the flesh yesterday. I can't wait to get a set.
    details?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    details?
    What do you want to know? I saw them mounted up on Darryls on a 907 190mm frame. Looks like a great all around tire.

    https://www.facebook.com/cyclehaven/...type=1&theater
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    What do you want to know? I saw them mounted up on Darryls on a 907 190mm frame. Looks like a great all around tire.
    You know the drill. Width, diameter, side-by-side comparo to 3.8 Knard, price, TPI.

  62. #62
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    Well, the drill right now is I was sitting in my truck and Derrick wheeled the bike out to show me. I am currently nursing a broken ankle. I'll send a text and ask the cost. In a few weeks, as soon as I can be back on my bike, I'll have a pair.
    I like turtles

  63. #63
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    ^Broken ankle is not a valid excuse as to why you are not providing mtbr with insider info.

    Sell bike to purchase Rascal, enter bike shop, snap pics and take measurements, sell Rascal, buy new bike...use Knards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    looks very sand happy....
    I think this just replaced the BFL's I had sitting in a web shopping cart somewhere...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    ^Broken ankle is not a valid excuse as to why you are not providing mtbr with insider info.

    Sell bike to purchase Rascal, enter bike shop, snap pics and take measurements, sell Rascal, buy new bike...use Knards.
    That made me LOL. I'm trying my best to get retail numbers. I did ask when he showed em to me and the answer was "It doesn't matter to you" because I "work" there. I think the store is closed this week.
    I like turtles

  66. #66
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    I checked the FB page. He says 4.5 on Darryls and 4.75 on Clownshoes.
    Still hasn't got back to me with a price.
    I like turtles

  67. #67
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    https://www.facebook.com/cyclehaven/...type=1&theater

    There's a pic next to a 3.8 Knard on a Marge Lite. The 4.8 is on a Darryl in a 907 frame.
    I like turtles

  68. #68
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    Tire retails for 130. Cycle Haven in NY sells it for 119.
    I like turtles

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/cyclehaven/...type=1&theater

    There's a pic next to a 3.8 Knard on a Marge Lite. The 4.8 is on a Darryl in a 907 frame.
    Is that a 170 or 190 frame? Probably a new 190.

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    Assuming it is the factory paint, I would say a 190. 170s came in black, orange, green, yellow and red IIRC. I am also eyeing up these knard 4.8s very closely as I am sure it will fit the front fork but the rear will probably be either close or no go. I have my cassette truncated to an 8 speed for extra clearance anyway but the 170 rear triangle is probably too tight.

    Otherwise I will likely go with a BFL on RD for the rear this summer. Last summer I ran the knards 3.8 on RDs and was very happy with them.

  71. #71
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    It's a 2014 190mm frame. He had it powder coated in a midnight blue metallic.
    I like turtles

  72. #72
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    I've still found no sign of these being definitively in stock with any online vendors yet. Anyone else...?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    There's a pic next to a 3.8 Knard on a Marge Lite. The 4.8 is on a Darryl in a 907 frame.
    WOW...that is a great looking tire. I really did like my 3.8 Knard as a rear tire last summer, but don't have any experience with it as a front, as I ran a Hudu up front.

    I am either thinking Knard (x2) or Knard and Bud.


    LBS says early to mid april according to QBP.

  74. #74
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    Mine came in yesterday. I do not have a scale, but I will try to get a pic next to Bud.
    My plan is to run Knards front and rear. I ordered them from Bikeman.com.


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  75. #75
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    A pic compared to ole Bud would be awesome ! Thats a deal breaker.

    Cheers !
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  76. #76
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    mine should be at the shop today,only 100 bucks each so not a bad deal from the LBS.

  77. #77
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    I'd appreciate anyone that can get a shoulder knob to knob mm measurement. Thanks!
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    mine should be at the shop today,only 100 bucks each so not a bad deal from the LBS.
    Wow; that's a good LBS you've got yourself there. I get the impression that 'round these parts (Twin Cities, MN), unless you've got a coupon, it's MSRP or nothin'. I could be wrong. Someone chime in if I'm wrong!

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    ^ You gotta quit going to the big name stores, or chain stores. Find yourself a good small shop, and start developing a relationship. You will more than likely save some cash.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuru nuru View Post
    Wow; that's a good LBS you've got yourself there. I get the impression that 'round these parts (Twin Cities, MN), unless you've got a coupon, it's MSRP or nothin'. I could be wrong. Someone chime in if I'm wrong!
    If you become a member of IMBA/MORC you get 10-15% off some places with your card in the metro. Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  81. #81
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    Here are some crappy pics compared to Bud. I don't have any of the fancy measurement tools. I would say it's about 1/8" narrower.





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    100mm rims?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjedoaks View Post
    100mm rims?
    90mm rims and tubeless.


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  84. #84
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    Awesome ! Thanks.
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  85. #85
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    Looks like same casing as Bud with different knobs?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Looks like same casing as Bud with different knobs?
    I think this is true. It's a lot lighter though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thebionicman View Post
    I think this is true. It's a lot lighter though.


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    Do you have an actual weight yet?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuru nuru View Post
    Wow; that's a good LBS you've got yourself there. I get the impression that 'round these parts (Twin Cities, MN), unless you've got a coupon, it's MSRP or nothin'. I could be wrong. Someone chime in if I'm wrong!
    i make a point of doing the bulk of my purchases through the LBS,even when i can get something cheaper online i would rather have a good local shop...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    ^ You gotta quit going to the big name stores, or chain stores. Find yourself a good small shop, and start developing a relationship. You will more than likely save some cash.

    exactly,i get a discount on everything,i rarely have to pay for shop time unless i insist,and i usually do...plus i bother to tip the mechanics so yes,i get great service and an invaluable source of advice and help. i really dont care if someone at jensonusa has a job so much,supporting the LBS means someone in my town has a job.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forged1 View Post
    Do you have an actual weight yet?
    Sorry I do not have a scale.

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  91. #91
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    Tried my local shop and they don't have any yet. Anybody know where I can find a pair online? Want to run these as summer tires in my blackborow.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by edved37 View Post
    Tried my local shop and they don't have any yet. Anybody know where I can find a pair online? Want to run these as summer tires in my blackborow.
    https://www.facebook.com/cyclehaven

    Call this place. He has em.
    I like turtles

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by edved37 View Post
    Tried my local shop and they don't have any yet. Anybody know where I can find a pair online? Want to run these as summer tires in my blackborow.
    Quote Originally Posted by thebionicman View Post
    Mine came in yesterday. I do not have a scale, but I will try to get a pic next to Bud.
    My plan is to run Knards front and rear. I ordered them from Bikeman.com.


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  94. #94
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    I'm wondering if this could be a good all year tire. I'm not too fond on riding deep snow anymore anyway. Groomed snow or follow the snowmobiles on the river. I hit mud in spring though. Guessing these will pack up but hopefully shed better that the damn bulldozer I have on back now.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  95. #95
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    Just got riding them in the dirt at Theo. Wow I really like these tires. I have to remind myself not to brake.



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  96. #96
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    Those Knards looks a lot like a certain feature on Pam Anderson, but for the life of me I cannot pin it down.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebionicman View Post
    Just got riding them in the dirt at Theo. Wow I really like these tires. I have to remind myself not to brake.



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    Those look great. Any word on wet/loose conditions (rock, mud, roots)? Looking to ride these 3 seasons in the Northeast (spring, summer fall).

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuru nuru View Post
    Wow; that's a good LBS you've got yourself there. I get the impression that 'round these parts (Twin Cities, MN), unless you've got a coupon, it's MSRP or nothin'. I could be wrong. Someone chime in if I'm wrong!
    Yeah you're totally wrong. There are so many shops here they basically have to either have great service or prices to compete. The HUB and ACF are great great shops that have always helped me out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mothahucker
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by puttsey View Post
    Yeah you're totally wrong. There are so many shops here they basically have to either have great service or prices to compete. The HUB and ACF are great great shops that have always helped me out.
    Yeah, I bought my ICT from the Hub, and they'd given me a discount coupon prior to that, which was nice. I like that they're a co-op, so I wanted to support them anyway. Didn't know they'd take a detour from MSRP, though. Good stuff.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Those Knards looks a lot like a certain feature on Pam Anderson, but for the life of me I cannot pin it down.
    Herpes zoster?

  101. #101
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    Hey, hey now! Don't be picking on my Pammy!

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/cyclehaven

    Call this place. He has em.
    Thanks for the heads up, ordered myself a pair this morning.

  103. #103
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    Just received this email from QBP:

    "Greetings,

    TR0130, Surly Knard 26x4.8" 120tpi Folding Bead Tire is in stock and available for purchase! We received 1 in the warehouse(s) you selected.

    Log in and view your Item Watch list to add this item to your cart.

    Below are any notes you may have entered about this product:


    Regards,

    Your friends at QBP."


    With 1 tire in inventory it sold out quick.

  104. #104
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    Wolf-Man's got Knards!

    4.8 Knard?-myknards.jpg
    Last edited by ShredMaster; 04-08-2015 at 03:45 PM.

  105. #105
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    I got the last pair from Haven Cycles (mentioned above) after my LBS was unable to get them from QBP/Surly.

    Really excited to get them. I've enjoyed riding my fatbike on dry dirt trails ever since our snow disappeared. I really hope the knards will roll a bit faster than Bud/Lou with Holy Rolling Darryls.

    Planning to switch to tubeless as well for the summer.

    Does anyone have weights on these yet? 4.8 120tpi... Thought I saw 1385 posted somewhere, but can't find that again.

  106. #106
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    The shop name is Cycle Haven. I'm glad it is a local shop for me. Couldn't find these anywhere.

  107. #107
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    Mine weigh 1390 and 1400...

  108. #108
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    Received mine two days ago. 1462 and 1463 grams.

    Spun very round when mounted, its a well made tire for sure.

    I was super disappointed by the horrible self steer from the front. anywhere 6-10psi would yank the bars around as the bike leaned. With pressures higher than that, I'd rather be on a different bike.

    I gave it a few short rides on mixed terrain and a 20+mile ride on dry hardpacked singletrack. After the long ride I immediately ripped the front tire off and put the 4.8 Bud back on. The Knard rear/Bud front combo seems like a keeper.

    I really thought self steer was a myth. I'm a believer now.
    Last edited by Pritchett; 04-16-2015 at 09:43 AM.

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    what size rim did you mount them on? i had the knard 3.8 on my moonlander and never noticed any self steer issues but the drop in bb height was a deal breaker for them,been not so patiently waiting for the 4.8's for a while now...

  110. #110
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    Put my new 4.8 knards on my Blackborow last nite. Looking forward to testing it on some singletrack this weekend. According to my bathroom scale it dropped my total bike weight 2 lbs.

  111. #111
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    Mine were mounted on Rolling Darryls with tubes. I know there are a lot of factors working together to create the weird steering feeling. The bike handles very well and very predictably with a Bud on the front. I was very uncomfortable pushing the bike fast through turns with the Knard.

    I was happy to discover that I could ride my fatty just as hard as my regular trail bike with a bud/lou. I was hoping for something a little faster with the Knards, but can't handle the goofy front end characteristics.

  112. #112
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    Does anyone know if QBP is sold out of the 4.8" Knard? I can't find any in the country including my LBS which claims they are on order. They've been on order since 4-1-15...

    Thanks!

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10ford View Post
    Does anyone know if QBP is sold out of the 4.8" Knard? I can't find any in the country including my LBS which claims they are on order. They've been on order since 4-1-15...

    Thanks!
    QBP is out, I believe they came in on the 1st and sold out in a day. Maybe Mike C ended up with a few extra.
    Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels

  114. #114
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    Thank you.

  115. #115
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    I'm interested in any other user experiences - particularly on 100mm rims. How's the self-steer? Is it prone to washing out on sandy turns? Better or worse than Bud for not slipping on dicey bends?

    Cheers!

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuru nuru View Post
    I'm interested in any other user experiences - particularly on 100mm rims. How's the self-steer? Is it prone to washing out on sandy turns? Better or worse than Bud for not slipping on dicey bends?

    Cheers!

    I just put a set on my Blabkborow with clownshoes. Did about 12 miles of single track yesterday and didn't notice too much self steer. Ran about 8.5 front and 10.5 on rear. Seems to roll much faster than with Lou's u had on. Could just lean in on those sharp speed curves and it would just grip and go.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by edved37 View Post
    I just put a set on my Blabkborow with clownshoes. Did about 12 miles of single track yesterday and didn't notice too much self steer. Ran about 8.5 front and 10.5 on rear. Seems to roll much faster than with Lou's u had on. Could just lean in on those sharp speed curves and it would just grip and go.
    Good to hear! I was thinking I might not want to sacrifice the grip of Bud up front, but then Bud started slipping out on me on a particularly dusty turn yesterday, and I wondered whether the Knard might actually have better grip in those conditions.

  118. #118
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    Sooo....Is there a consensus on where these 4.8 knards are in their element? HELP, please!

    I need a tire for my "all around, pick it up and ride" fat bike:
    • 3 seasons (spring/summer/fall)
    • Northeast US (beach/rocks/roots/road - don't want self steer)
    • 80mm-100mm wheels
    • Bluto suspension
    • Lighter than 1400g
    • Anytime I don't feel like riding my other bikes that are more specific.

    I just want to make this a fun, go anywhere, do anything bike. It has to ride decently well on the road. My instincts tell me that the Knard 4.8 could be good here, but I'm hoping there are more opinions. I haven't seen any scientific evidence that 4" is better than 5", but for a "go anywhere" bike, my instincts are telling me that 5" is more versatile as long as the tire is a decent roller. The 4.7" snowshoes aren't cutting it, and my studded Dillinger 5's are dedicated for winter.

    HELP!

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    Sooo....Is there a consensus on where these 4.8 knards are in their element? HELP, please!

    I need a tire for my "all around, pick it up and ride" fat bike:
    • 3 seasons (spring/summer/fall)
    • Northeast US (beach/rocks/roots/road - don't want self steer)
    • 80mm-100mm wheels
    • Bluto suspension
    • Lighter than 1400g
    • Anytime I don't feel like riding my other bikes that are more specific.

    I just want to make this a fun, go anywhere, do anything bike. It has to ride decently well on the road. My instincts tell me that the Knard 4.8 could be good here, but I'm hoping there are more opinions. I haven't seen any scientific evidence that 4" is better than 5", but for a "go anywhere" bike, my instincts are telling me that 5" is more versatile as long as the tire is a decent roller. The 4.7" snowshoes aren't cutting it, and my studded Dillinger 5's are dedicated for winter.
    Nobby Nic - Schwalbe Professional Bike Tires
    HELP!
    I currently ride JJ 4.8(F) BFL(R) for the same type of riding you explained. I like this combo and would recommend it.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    I currently ride JJ 4.8(F) BFL(R) for the same type of riding you explained. I like this combo and would recommend it.
    Awesome, thanks! Just out of curiosity...have you ever ridden the Bud up front? Definitely much heavier than JJ but the grip is attractive if there isn't too much of a rolling efficiency loss.


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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    Awesome, thanks! Just out of curiosity...have you ever ridden the Bud up front? Definitely much heavier than JJ but the grip is attractive if there isn't too much of a rolling efficiency loss.


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    I used a Bud up front on wider rims, but never 65mm. There is a very big difference between the two tires. The lower weight and smaller center knobs make the JJ a lot more playful/fun in my opinoin. I don't require all the traction the Bud provides in summer, but you might.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    I used a Bud up front on wider rims, but never 65mm. There is a very big difference between the two tires. The lower weight and smaller center knobs make the JJ a lot more playful/fun in my opinoin. I don't require all the traction the Bud provides in summer, but you might.
    Interesting. I'll be running it on an 80mm+ wheel. I think for spring/fall variable conditions I am almost sold on Bud up front, with Jumbo Jim coming in at a close second.

    As attractive as some of the 4" options are (and some are nice and inexpensive), I'm not sold on them for 80mm wheels and my type of riding.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    Interesting. I'll be running it on an 80mm+ wheel. I think for spring/fall variable conditions I am almost sold on Bud up front, with Jumbo Jim coming in at a close second.

    As attractive as some of the 4" options are (and some are nice and inexpensive), I'm not sold on them for 80mm wheels and my type of riding.
    Just to be clear I'm talking about the larger 4.8 Jumbo Jim which is just as big. I agree, Bud is a great tire and would trump the JJ is less the perfect conditions, but at the price of rolling resistance. The Bud is also awesome in the snow and I believe the JJ will fall short in the later months once the mud and snow arrives. I haven't rode a better 4.5"+ tire yet for all summer riding which includes: Bud, BFL, GC, D5, and JJ.

  124. #124
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    4.8 Knard?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpfurn View Post
    Just to be clear I'm talking about the larger 4.8 Jumbo Jim which is just as big. I agree, Bud is a great tire and would trump the JJ is less the perfect conditions, but at the price of rolling resistance. The Bud is also awesome in the snow and I believe the JJ will fall short in the later months once the mud and snow arrives. I haven't rode a better 4.5"+ tire yet for all summer riding which includes: Bud, BFL, GC, D5, and JJ.
    Picked up a Bud today and running with a Big Fat Larry rear. Early results on road put this at a big upgrade for road rolling resistance. I couldn't hear a lot of noise from the front Bud (in fact I heard more noise from the BFL) so I've got to assume it is doing its job as a nice rolling, grippy front tire.

    Will return with trail updates.

    Thanks to all for your advice!



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    Last edited by Higgins17; 04-20-2015 at 09:56 PM.

  125. #125
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    Anyone hear any rumours on when the next batch is going to be arriving? Seems like the first lot must've been decidedly limited.

  126. #126
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    UPDATE: Rode the bike on the road to go to a mostly dry, rocky, rooty up and downhill section on my new setup (Bud (front), and Big Fat Larry (rear)).

    Performance: I wasn't running strava for my downhill, but I set a Strava personal record on the uphill and was very close to a KOM. I've run the climb on both a steel cyclocross and full suspension with 2.35s and remember trying a lot harder on those climbs to get my previous times. A good sign for sure.

    Feel since tire change from Snowshoe to Bud/BFL: Obviously, I changed two variables on the fat bike (front and rear tires had been VEE snowshoes), but I was pleased with the results. On my 80mm wheels the lack of self steer on the Bud was a welcomed change. Also, the Bud, BFL's don't throw up nearly the amount of rocks and dirt that the snowshoes do. Unless I experience horrible performance on wet roots with Bud/BFL, I've found my setup until winter hits again!


    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    Picked up a Bud today and running with a Big Fat Larry rear. Early results on road put this at a big upgrade for road rolling resistance. I couldn't hear a lot of noise from the front Bud (in fact I heard more noise from the BFL) so I've got to assume it is doing its job as a nice rolling, grippy front tire.

    Will return with trail updates.

    Thanks to all for your advice!



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  127. #127
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    "my new setup (Bud (front), and Big Fat Larry (rear))"

    The title of this thread is 4.8" Knard... Good info in your comment, but I'm unable to find relevance to the 4.8" Knard in any of your recent posts.

  128. #128
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    4.8 Knard?

    Fair enough. I should have prefaced it with "I originally considered a 4.8" Knard but after reading about some self steer issues when mounted on the front, and limited initial availability, I looked into other options. Am looking forward to trying the Knard on the rear when it comes out and if rolling resistance reviews are favorable."

    Honestly, if the Knard 4.8 rolls equivalently to or better than the BFL, I'll probably be in the market. Will be interested to hear more about performance on roots and in mud.


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  129. #129
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    An update to my Knard experience:

    The 4.8 in the back has been great. It does seem to pick up and hold onto a bit of mud, but I try to stay on dry trails for most of my riding.

    Dumping the front for a Bud was a good choice. I'm back to a great handling bike.

    I'm about 210lbs. I find I enjoy the fatty most when the tires are workings as my suspension. I've currently settled on ~7.5psi in the rear and ~6psi in front for riding techy midwest singletrack.

    Though I've had some issues with my tubeless setup, none of the issues have been caused by the Knard. The bead hasn't leaked any sealant since initial setup and the sidewalls have showed no signs of seepage.

    I was able to set the bead on rolling darryls using only 1 layer of tyvek tape and using a compressor with the wheel on a bucket (loose bead facing down.)

  130. #130
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    I have mine set up tubeless on 80mm Mulefuts. Due to having my wrist in a cast, I've only had the chance to ride them leisurely on paved road, grass, beach, and a boardwalk since I'm not capable of riding trails with a broken wrist. The tires roll super fast. IMO, you cannot compare these to the traction of a Bud/Lou. Its like comparing apples and oranges. They are very voluminous like Bud/Lou though. I had the tires at 3.5 psi on the beach and they floated over the sand just like Bud/Lou but with speed. They definitely accelerated quicker on the sand both in the soft and harder/wetter stuff. I did notice the front washing out slightly on the boardwalk when making sharp turns down the ramps to the street and beach, but it was more due to the fine sand blown all over the boardwalk. Even as the front slipped on the sandy wood surface it was very predictable and correctable. I'll be out of my cast in a week and on the trails in two. I'll give another report when I get them out in the dirt. I noticed minimal self steer at 5psi on paved roads, nothing that a little muscle and rider input could not override.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4.8 Knard?-photo-2.jpg  

    4.8 Knard?-photo-1.jpg  

    Last edited by ShredMaster; 04-22-2015 at 03:27 PM.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pritchett View Post


    An update to my Knard experience:

    The 4.8 in the back has been great. It does seem to pick up and hold onto a bit of mud, but I try to stay on dry trails for most of my riding.

    Dumping the front for a Bud was a good choice. I'm back to a great handling bike.

    I'm about 210lbs. I find I enjoy the fatty most when the tires are workings as my suspension. I've currently settled on ~7.5psi in the rear and ~6psi in front for riding techy midwest singletrack.

    Though I've had some issues with my tubeless setup, none of the issues have been caused by the Knard. The bead hasn't leaked any sealant since initial setup and the sidewalls have showed no signs of seepage.

    I was able to set the bead on rolling darryls using only 1 layer of tyvek tape and using a compressor with the wheel on a bucket (loose bead facing down.)
    Awesome. Thanks for the info! I have a feeling that this will be my future setup. Looking at the two tires, I have a feeling that I can only gain rear grip over the BFL, and it really doesn't look like I'll lose any rolling efficiency to boot. I guess time will tell whether the Knard is really a big enough upgrade for me to drop the rear BFL!

  132. #132
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    So, it seems that if you do not have a Knard 4.8 yet it will be awhile before you do so. I put in an order with our Canadian supplier to get myself a pair back during the first week of April and they were out of stock.
    However, they said they were going to get in contact with their supplier in the US and have some tires shipped up by the end of the month.
    I called yesterday and it doesn't look like and Knards are available until later in the summer for anybody (both US and Canada).

    So, I cancelled my order of Knards and went with some Big Fat Larry's instead.

    Is it a situation of where the supply could not meet the demand? Or a manufacturing or shipping issue? Whatever it is, I guess I'll have to wait until next year to try these tires.

  133. #133
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    Does anyone know if these will fit in a Mukluk on 80mm rims? Thanks.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by that guy again View Post
    Does anyone know if these will fit in a Mukluk on 80mm rims? Thanks.
    I don't know... They look every bit as big as Lou. I know Dillinger 5's will fit in a Muk on Darryls.
    I like turtles

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by that guy again View Post
    Does anyone know if these will fit in a Mukluk on 80mm rims? Thanks.
    They fit. You'll need to be running 1x up front and at least 2 BB spacers on the drive side.

  136. #136
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    The 4.8 Knards on 65mm rims fit on the newer Mukluks fine. I'd think 80mm rims would not be a problem. I can't vouch for chain line though; I'm running with IGH.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I don't know... They look every bit as big as Lou.
    My knard was bigger than the lou I have. I like it.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    My knard was bigger than the lou I have. I like it.
    Awesome. I'm due for new tires anyway. I need these.
    I like turtles

  139. #139
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    I would get the Lou 4.8 instead, maximized traction.

  140. #140
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    after 3 months and 5-600 miles on a set of knards on my moonlander i continue to love these tires.here in the desert southwest they seem to work well for all the various forms/combos of loose,sandy,and rocky we get here,and have held up to all the various tire shredding plants and such we have here,and as a bonus they actually do great on the road,an important factor for someone who doesnt own a car...i have several strava road segment top tens on the moonlander (take that carbon fiber ridin roadies!)

    the rear tire does ooze sealant from the sidewalls,and i can hear some giant tire goblins rolling around inside,but so far zero problems from a split tube setup,which only took a floor pump to set the bead.i have noted some self steer from the front,but generally only on pavement...
    for where i ride,the knards are just right,no complaints at all about them

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by that guy again View Post
    Does anyone know if these will fit in a Mukluk on 80mm rims? Thanks.
    I know, I know!

    4.8 Knard?-screen-shot-2015-05-23-4.20.58-pm.jpg

    I have my alternators about half way back (although it's just the little hairs that rub on the chainstay bridge when they're all the way forward).

    I'm using a RaceFace narrow wide ring on the stock 2x crankset... I put two spacers on the drive side, so it's a ghetto 1x9 set up. I get pretty heavy chain rub on the tire in the lowest gear. I'm thinking about dumping the highest gear and spacing the cassette outward, for a 1x8 set up that will let me use the high gear.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  142. #142
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    I put a 4.8 Knard on my 907 last night on the rear. I still have Bud mounted on the front. All I have to say is WOW!
    Bike is faster and WAY quieter. Now, when I roll down a hill, it picks up speed fast.
    So here's a couple of questions... How's the big Knard in snow? Anyone get to try it last winter? And... Anyone tried Bud-Knard and switched to Knard-Knard? Which do you like better?
    I like turtles

  143. #143
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    ^Welcome to the Big Knard Bud club! I have not tried the Knard/Knard combo yet because I have no complaints w/ the current combo. I did have a 3.8 Knard/Hudu on my 170mm 9ZERO7 and liked it a lot. I wouldn't do Knard in the front..prob D5, but I like to "overtire" the front.

    Newmarketrog says he loved knard/knard in the snow, but I cannot imagine they would be good in the snow.

  144. #144
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    Saying a certain tire won't be good in "snow" is like saying tire X isn't good on "dirt."
    Type of snow plays a huge role on how a tire will react to it. Certain conditions call for aggressive knobs like a Lou, or maybe studs. Others, even slicks do ok.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post

    I'm thinking about dumping the highest gear and spacing the cassette outward, for a 1x8 set up that will let me use the high gear.
    From your description it is not really clear which cog is being removed, but here's my experience:

    To ensure proper lockring tension on the cassettes I've worked with, the first two small cogs formed a unit that should not be removed.

    The smallest have the knurls for holding the lockring to torque, the second on Shimano at least have a recess machined to receive the first cog. This makes for wrong spacing if one tries to mate number one to number three for instance.

    Again just my personal observations.
    Last edited by jan_nikolajsen; 09-27-2015 at 10:01 AM.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    ^Welcome to the Big Knard Bud club! I have not tried the Knard/Knard combo yet because I have no complaints w/ the current combo. I did have a 3.8 Knard/Hudu on my 170mm 9ZERO7 and liked it a lot. I wouldn't do Knard in the front..prob D5, but I like to "overtire" the front.

    Newmarketrog says he loved knard/knard in the snow, but I cannot imagine they would be good in the snow.
    I did 20 miles of super techy singletrack today on my bike with Knard-Bud and my friend on his identical 907 with Knards front and rear. I outweigh him by about 75 pounds and had zero trouble hangin' on his rear wheel. I guess Knard-Bud will stay a while.
    I like turtles

  147. #147
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    Any real world input on how these guys size up mounted onto 65/70mm width rims? I know the measurements from surlys website, bit hoping for real world input.

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