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  1. #1
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    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.

    I've got a Felt DD70 that came with a 3 x 9 drivetrain. I'd like to upgrand to a 1 x 11 drivetrain like what comes on the DD10.

    Felt Bicycles | DD 70

    Felt Bicycles | DD 10

    I usually use a local shop for bigger jobs, but would like to tackle this myself and hopefully learn a few things.

    I like the XT 11 speed cassette and XT derailure that comes stock on the DD10. Not sure if it's a clutch derailure but I would like one. Also wondering if I can use a shorter derailure on the 1 x 11 drivetrain.

    The stock bottom bracket is 100mm on my bike, it looks like the screw in type but I'm not sure. Race Face ride cranks are stock on my bike and on the DD10. I'd like to upgrade to race face atlas cranks, but may use the stock cranks to keep costs down.

    Product Details - Race Face

    The stock bottom bracket is creaking pretty bad and has quite a bit of play in it, so it needs to be replaced. I'm a big boy at 240#, and ride semi aggressively. This bottom bracket is about a year old and I'd like the replacement to be as strong as possible.

    I'm also thinking about an oval chainring. Are they beneficial for a fatbike with platform pedals? What size chainring should I be looking at?

    I'm looking for some help choosing the right componenents and tools. A friend has the tools for the cassette, so for now I just need tools for the bottom bracket.

    I'm mechanically inclined, ex motorcycle mechanic, now small machine shop owner. So I'm capable of doing the work, just a newbie to wrenching on bikes.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    It sounds like you mostly have it figured out.

    I have a Shimano 1x11 myself. I think it's a great option for those of us who don't want a super expensive, proprietary driver. The cassette should just slip on to your existing wheel.

    Shimano should give the capacities for their rear derailleurs. But yeah, if there's a choice, short cage.

    You'll need a new shifter.

    Better cranks are a little more of a toughie. What chain ring size did you have in mind? I'm doing well with my RaceFace Aeffect crank but you've got 90 lb on me. Shimano used to be my go-to, but so far they haven't put out a single ring crank I like. I use a 28t ring and think spiderless is where it's at. So I dunno... seems like King has a following among people who go through bearings, but I'm not sure if they do a bottom bracket compatible with RaceFace.

    Come to think of it, why not rebuild your existing bottom bracket? It uses sealed bearings. I think once you start to tear into it, it will look very familiar. I used to pull them out of my bike to work on, but you could do it in place too.

    The tools for the bottom bracket - you might need a special tool to remove your crank. Check the RaceFace web site. Once one arm's off, you can get the other out with a C clamp or rubber mallet.

    Can you post a pic of the bottom bracket?

    Circling back to needed components, you are going to need a new shifter.

    If you have the time and inclination, you could probably make a kickass bottom bracket of your own, too. Commercial ones always use deep groove ball bearings. But if your crank has a bearing preload like mine, I bet you could get better service life from angular contact bearings. It would be unique. You'll see when you pull your bottom bracket that it's not that complicated a part.

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  3. #3
    Fat-tired Roadie
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    A little clicking around has X-type (RaceFace) cross-compatible with Shimano. Which means lots of aftermarket options too.

    I've done pretty well with Shimano bottom brackets. Especially rebuilt with the bearing kit from Real World Cycling.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info.

    The stock chainrings are 44/32/22. I was thinking about going with a single 30 tooth chainring.

    Not sure if an oval chainring would be better than a round one.

    I found a blog about the raceface type x bottom bracket. Seems like the stock bearings are a pos.

    Pedal! Damn it!: Race Face X-Type BB bearings upgrade

    Thanks for mentioning Real World Cycling/Enduro bearing. Lots of options for upgraded bearing kits, and replacement bottom brackets that use angular contact bearings like you mentioned. They also have a fat bike 100mm bottom bracket for 30mm spindles. I'd like to run the atlas crank but didn't find a compatible bottom bracket from race face. Looks like this one might work.

    EXTERNAL CUP BB30 BOTTOM BRACKET FROM REAL WORLD CYCLING

    How do you tell if the spindle is the correct length for the bottom bracket?

  5. #5
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    I also need a bottom bracket tool. I like the looks of this one.

    Bottom Bracket Tool | Park Tool

    Any others I should be looking at?

  6. #6
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    No need to spend a bunch of money to go 1x.

    SRAM or Shimano type II clutch 10sp derailleur and shifter $75
    Sunrace 11-42 10sp cassette, $65
    10sp chain, $30
    bb, $50

    For the cranks, install a bashguard in the 104 position and put a 26t-28t on the 64 position.

    Get a new bb, non RF is not a bad idea, RF uses garbage bearings; my year old RF bb creaks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    Can you post a pic of the bottom bracket?
    Here are a few pics.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160627_154920l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160627_155004l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160627_155105l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160627_155126l.jpg

    I ordered the upgraded bearing kit from real world cycling, and the bottom bracket tool. And I got my new toy

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160630_144432l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160630_144450l.jpg

  8. #8
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    Nice link to that blog.
    Wow! Those RaceFace Type-X bottom bracket bearings look like junk.
    Sounds like a good idea to upgrade mine to something better.

  9. #9
    Fat-tired Roadie
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    That left crank arm doesn't look like it's installed correctly.

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  10. #10
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    careful about clamping workstands onto aluminum frames there. The frame tubing is very thin in the middle, especially on hydroformed tubes like yours appears to be. I'd clamp on the seat tube, since you have a dropper.

    On my Bucksaw, I clamp my workstand on/below the collar on the dropper.

    A lot of shops I know will put a rag in the clamp and just clamp the dropper stanchion, but I'm pretty sure the companies who make dropper posts are not fans of this practice.

  11. #11
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    I've recently built two 1x11 fat bikes with Shimano 11-42 cassettes, Sram GX shifters and derailleurs and Raceface Aeffect cranksets.
    The Aeffect cranks are inexpensive and use the Cinch mounting system. I used Wolftooth's 28 tooth on one bike and Raceface 28 on the other. Wolftooth makes a 26 or 28 that bolts to your 64 bcd holes or 30, 32, 34 that goes on the 104. I'd just do that and put better bearings on the bb to keep costs down.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster75 View Post
    Here are a few pics.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That BB -> crank installation doesn't look right to me.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBG 18T View Post
    That BB -> crank installation doesn't look right to me.
    I think the spacer is on backwards.
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  14. #14
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    Guess you already got it installed; my mistake. Good job. The crank doesn't look right though per the guy above. Still might be functional though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edster75 View Post
    I also need a bottom bracket tool. I like the looks of this one.

    Bottom Bracket Tool | Park Tool

    Any others I should be looking at?
    Just a word of wisdom, be careful if you haven't done one of these before. I tried to put in a BB30 myself as my first bottom bracket installation using a makeshift bolt and washer tool, and I gouged my BB shell inside the frame because I couldn't get them in straight. If you buy the proper tool, I'm sure you'll be fine, but still be careful. The tool investment wasn't worth it for me. I went to a shop and had someone do it who also helped save my frame. The two things I had to go to the shop for were the BB and the headset despite it being internal. Anyway, good luck, but be careful.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    careful about clamping workstands onto aluminum frames there. The frame tubing is very thin in the middle, especially on hydroformed tubes like yours appears to be. I'd clamp on the seat tube, since you have a dropper.
    Thanks for the tip. Don't want to damage the frame.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by josephjosephson View Post
    Guess you already got it installed; my mistake. Good job. The crank doesn't look right though per the guy above. Still might be functional though.
    No that's still the original setup. The BB bearings are toast and I have another set on order. I'll put those in and familiarize myself with the setup before buying any parts for the 1x11 conversion.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    That left crank arm doesn't look like it's installed correctly.

    Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by EBG 18T View Post
    That BB -> crank installation doesn't look right to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I think the spacer is on backwards.
    What looks incorrect? Is it how far the spindle is sticking into the crank arm?

    Which spacer looks backwards?

    We're talking about the non drive side correct?

  18. #18
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    Yeah. Typically the crank arm is right up next to the bottom bracket cup, with no exposed spindle.

    I'm not sure how your crank is constructed. I think I see pinch bolts on that left crank arm. So probably if the pinch bolts are loose, it's relatively easy to slide the crank arm further up the spindle, possibly with a rubber mallet or a plastic tool and a fastener in the left arm, before locking it in place with the pinch bolts.

    Anyway, I'd start by finding the manual.

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  19. #19
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    Yeah. Non drive side. That spacer is correct for a 190mm bike.
    I believe it's backwards meaning the contoured side should face the bearing and the smaller end out against the crank arm.
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  20. #20
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    -The Felt DD70 uses a threaded bottom bracket so no worry about gouging the BB shell inside the frame. Unless you cross thread it or something.
    -The bike needs that spacer on the non drive side or the crank arm would hit the chain stay. I don't know witch way that spacer should be.
    -There are no pinch bolts on the crank arms. (Race Face Ride)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Yeah. Non drive side. That spacer is correct for a 190mm bike.
    I believe it's backwards meaning the contoured side should face the bearing and the smaller end out against the crank arm.
    (looks at my cranks on my 190mm bike)

    Yep. The spacer is flipped, that's all.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster75 View Post
    I also need a bottom bracket tool. I like the looks of this one.

    Bottom Bracket Tool | Park Tool

    Any others I should be looking at?

    I like the looks of this one. S2 tool steel.
    External BB Socket - Tools - Pedro's NA

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangutanracer View Post
    I like the looks of this one. S2 tool steel.
    External BB Socket - Tools - Pedro's NA
    Looks nice, but I already got my park tools socket.

    Post a pick of your non drive side crank arm when you get a chance.

  24. #24
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    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160702_083158%5B1%5D.jpg

    My spacer looks the same way. Is Felt or the local bike shop putting them on backwards?

  25. #25
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    Looks like a different spacer.
    Yamaguchi Cross YT Jeffsy Salsa Mukluk & Vaya Canyon Commuter

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangutanracer View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160702_083158[1].jpg 
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    My spacer looks the same way. Is Felt or the local bike shop putting them on backwards?
    Maybe that's the correct way. Maybe I'm wrong.
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  27. #27
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    I pulled the crank. The Race Face Ride crank isn't a self extracting crank so I ended up buying a park tools CCP-44 crank puller. It worked perfect.

    I ended up buying a Race Face Aeffect crankset with the cinch setup, and an Absolute Black oval chainring.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160711_103108h.jpg

    Funny the instructions are vague. No mention of adjusting preload in the bearings with the provided spacers or anything. I'm assuming the crank is assembled and if there is play another shim is added.

    Here's a pic of the original Ride crank and spacers. I don't see anything that was put together incorrectly. The aluminum spacers have a recess in the larger end for the plastic shims. If they were reversed the recess would cause the spacer to press in on the bearing's seal and not the race.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160711_104046h.jpg

  28. #28
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    The stock Sunrace cassette was beating up the freewheel on my I9 hub, so I'm waiting for a new one from I9. The good news is the freewheel assembly looks brand new inside. No wear on the hub or the pawls that I can see. I blew the stock freewheel up in less than 500 miles.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160714_104700l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160714_104606l.jpg

    Shouldn't have the problem again with the XT cassette.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160714_104333l.jpg 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160714_104003l.jpg

  29. #29
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    It doesn't look to me like there is anything wrong with that free hub body that a little work with a file wouldn't cure.
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  30. #30
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    I have some sympathy with wanting a cassette with a spider. Sure, the poster can clean up that freehub with a file. But it's going to get notched more over the next thousand miles or whatever and he'll have to do it again. It gets old. And getting a cassette off a really notched freehub can suck.

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  31. #31
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    Yeah that shimano cassette shouldn't damage the freehub body like your original cassette did.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    I have some sympathy with wanting a cassette with a spider. Sure, the poster can clean up that freehub with a file. But it's going to get notched more over the next thousand miles or whatever and he'll have to do it again. It gets old. And getting a cassette off a really notched freehub can suck.

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    I took his original post to say he already had the XT cassette and was waiting on a new free hub body. If so a file job combined with the XT cassette should last a very long time, and would get him riding again ASAP.
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  33. #33
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    Lol, in that case...

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    So I had a little bit of a setback. Turns out the thread was buggered on the non drive side bearing cup and whoever installed it just cranked it in damaging the threads in the frame.

    Anyway I was in limbo for a little while waiting to see what the LBS and Felt would do to fix the damaged thread situation. Felt wouldn't warranty the frame, but they did offer sell me a crash replacement frame for $600.00. A little steep in my opinion since the bikes are on sale now for $999.00.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160708_084313.jpg  

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160708_084340.jpg  

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160708_084541.jpg  


  35. #35
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    The original Race Face bearing. They must have updated the design of the bearing. This one has cages holding the balls apart. The bearing in the blog I posted a link to didn't have cages, the balls just rubbed against each other.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160708_084633.jpg
    Last edited by Edster75; 07-23-2016 at 11:08 AM.

  36. #36
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    The LBS didn't have a tap and facing set so I bought one from Park Tools. I also needed a new bearing cup so I bought a new bottom bracket from RWC with angular contact bearings. After I chased the damaged thread the RWC bearing cup wouldn't screw in all the way, it's threads were longer. I tapped both sides of the frame deeper. The bearing cups were able to screw in all the way, but they didn't seat flush with the frame. There was about .050" of clearance in one spot, so I faced both sides of the frame.

    After all that I installed the bottom bracket and new Aeffect crankset with all the provided spacers. There was still a little bit of play left so I installed a wave washer that the guys from RWC said I might need. After installing the wave washer the crank felt perfect. A slight amount of drag and no noticeable play. Now I can get back to finishing the rest of the install.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_150015l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_150119l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_151000l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_155544l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_165240l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160722_165256l.jpg

  37. #37
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    Your LBS didn't have a BB tap & facing kit? I am surprised the LBS manager whom sold you the bike didn't try to make it right by buying the kit and chasing it for you. Especially when Felt dropped the ball.
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  38. #38
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    That's probably about the best prepared bottom bracket shell on any of the DD70s in the wild now.

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  39. #39
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    Good job on fixing the threads.
    That's about the most annoying thing when the bb threads are buggered right from the start.

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    Thanks guys! The LBS is a small shop with the owner and one employee. I asked about the tap set when I first discovered the problem. He said he never needed the set so didn't make the investment yet.

    I was a little upset at Felt. There supposed to have a lifetime warranty for the original owner. I bought the bike last July, so it should have been a warranty replacement IMO. Offering a crash replacement for $600 is BS. I bought the tap set off eBay for $500 with free shipping, so I saved a hundo and have a cool new tool if I ever need it again. The thread is fixed but it's still not perfect. I think it will be ok though with the deeper threads on the bearing cups.

    Now how much should I charge the LBS to rent the tap set.

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    That Race Face bearing looks likes a much better design than the one in that blog.
    A little bit of assurance for me.
    I just wonder what kinds of problems I might find if I decide to upgrade the drive train on my DD70.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster75 View Post

    Now how much should I charge the LBS to rent the tap set.
    This is EXACTLY what I was going to suggest. It's probably more valuable to barter with them than rent it. Never know when you might need a favor.
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  43. #43
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    So she's all back together.

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160726_092315l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160726_092359l.jpg

    Everything seems to be working ok so far. If I'm in the largest sprocket and I pedal backwards it wants to shift to a smaller sprocket. Not sure what is causing that.

    I installed a chain with 116 links. I figured I'd try it first before removing any links. Seems to be working ok, but there is the issue with pedaling backwards.

  44. #44
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    How do you guys think the chain line looks?

    3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160726_091922l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160726_092006l.jpg3 x 9 to 1 x 11 drivetrain swap, need help choosing the right componenents.-20160726_092121l.jpg

  45. #45
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    Have your derailleur hanger checked for straightness. My old fat bike was doing exactly the same thing and upon checking, the hanger was bent a little. Straightened it, it stopped creeping when pedaling backward.
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    I forgot to mention I replaced the derailleur hanger. It was bent, but I wasn't sure if it was the hanger or the old 9 speed derailleur that was bent. When I put the new 11 speed derailleur on it was obvious the hanger was bent, so I changed it out.

  47. #47
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    Check it anyway. Mine was good too. It doesn't take much to make it do that.
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    This may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. How does a slightly bent derailler hanger make a difference when back pedaling?
    Latitude 61

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    I did check the new hanger vs the old one to be sure that was the problem. The new one seemed flat, and the old one rocked on the granite. The derailleur wheels seem to be parallel to the sprockets in the cassette with the new hanger too.

  50. #50
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    Chainline looks fine to me. It's always a compromise on multi-speed bikes.

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    I been slowly amassing the parts to do a similar 1x upgrade to my Felt DD70.
    Gonna use the existing cranks to keep the cost lower.
    Got a
    -Sunrace CSMS8 11-46 cassette
    -KMC X11.93 chain
    -Wolf Tooth stainless steel 32T 104BCD chainring.
    -Race Face Bash Guard Light

    Just ordered the last parts. Should arrive early next week.
    -Shimano M8000 XT gs derailleur and XT 11-speed shifter.

    Anyone see any problems/compatibility issues with the parts I selected?

  52. #52
    Fat-tired Roadie
    Reputation: AndrwSwitch's Avatar
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    Sounds fine to me.

    You may not need the bash guard but it won't hurt anything.

    Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  53. #53
    mtbr member
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    Figured I would need shorter bolts or Chainring Tab Shims so I went with the bash guard instead.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cold Trigger Finger's Avatar
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    You went thru ALOT to get your bike right !! :-) hats off to you. The work looks beautiful.

    I want to set up our bikes as 1x9 (my wife's bike) and 1x10 for my Cogburn CB4. . Really though, my goal it to get the chain out of the way so I can maximize my tire size without chain rub. I am not a machinist or much of a mechanic tho. . This is a great thread . Thank you.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: letitsnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangutanracer View Post
    I been slowly amassing the parts to do a similar 1x upgrade to my Felt DD70.
    Gonna use the existing cranks to keep the cost lower.
    Got a
    -Sunrace CSMS8 11-46 cassette
    -KMC X11.93 chain
    -Wolf Tooth stainless steel 32T 104BCD chainring.
    -Race Face Bash Guard Light

    Just ordered the last parts. Should arrive early next week.
    -Shimano M8000 XT gs derailleur and XT 11-speed shifter.

    Anyone see any problems/compatibility issues with the parts I selected?

    I went with a sunrace 11-40 (I like the smaller jump between gears) a sram chain, and the same XT stuff that you ordered. Mine works great.

  56. #56
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    I got it all put together Friday night.







    Went for a ride Sunday morning and it works great.

  57. #57
    Fat-tired Roadie
    Reputation: AndrwSwitch's Avatar
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    Nice.

    Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  58. #58
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    Just an update. It's been a little over two years and everything is still working perfectly! The gearing is almost perfect. I could go just a little lower and it would be perfect. I'm very happy that the only maintenance I've done is lube the chain!

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