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Thread: 26x5.05 XXL

  1. #1401
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    i use specalized OE tubes
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  2. #1402
    Oslo, Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    This post is so long I can't remember everything. Has it been decided that this tire will not work on a Bluto fork?
    That was decided 2 years ago when I made this



    (It is the somewhat bigger (and much lighter and much faster) 2XL prototypes from 2015 but you get the idea)

  3. #1403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster182 View Post
    kaleidopete
    Specialized 26 x 3.8 - 4.8 which comes standard on the fatboy seems to do the trick just fine.
    Thanks, I'll check 'em out
    Northern NJ

  4. #1404
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    Quote Originally Posted by akacoke View Post
    Here my farley 5. Drop out slided all the way to the back. I got excited mounted the tire backwards. And pumped it to 12psi. Realized afterward the bead didn't properly seat. Tire had a huge wobble. Despite all these issues. Cleared with good 6mm all around. This is on specialized 90mm stout rim
    How about the fork? No go?

  5. #1405
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    2XL compatable frame and fork

    You folks can add to this list too: just copy paste and edit as appropriate

    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Blackborrow size m and above frame and fork
    Surly ict frame and fork
    Quering Tripple b frame and fork
    Reeb badonkadonk frame and fork
    RSD Mayor (alu) frame and fork (limit to 80mm rims)
    Meriwether frame and fork
    Carver (titanium) frame and fork
    Pole taiga (frame and fork)
    Motobecane FB5 (frame only)
    Trek Farley (frame only?)
    9:zero:7 Whiteout (FORK ONLY)

    A few more out of Norway:
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X1 (455mm CS)
    -Nakamura Big Bob F50 (455mm CS)
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X2 (467mm CS)

    X1 and F50 come stock with JJ 4.8 on 90mm rims, but frame accepts 2XL on 100mm. Fork (Bluto) limited to 4.8'' on 100mm rims.

    X2 comes with 2XL on 100mm rims, ie. 5.2'' casing width. Both frame (aluminum) and fork (carbon) fit up to 5.6'' (ie. ''3XL'' on 100mm+rim)

    Not sure on the specifics of these:

    KHS 1000
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?
    Huffy (frame only)

  6. #1406
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    stock 135mm fork, i did not try. im running a full carbon fork from trek farley 9.9. i dont have a 135mm front wheel. honestly the stock fork is ugly

    im either going with lefty which i already have and send it to medon cycle build a new wheelset with surly MOBD. or wait for new manitou fat fork and run spesh 150x15mm front wheel.
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  7. #1407
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    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Blackborrow size m and above frame and fork
    Surly ict frame and fork
    Quering Tripple b frame and fork
    Reeb badonkadonk frame and fork
    RSD Mayor (alu) frame and fork (limit to 80mm rims)
    Meriwether frame and fork
    Carver (titanium) frame and fork
    Pole taiga (frame and fork)
    Motobecane FB5 (frame only)
    197mm rear Trek Farley 5 and 7 works with both 80 and 90mm rims
    9:zero:7 Whiteout (FORK ONLY)
    OEM specialized fatboy 135x9 qr front fork both alloy and carbon. require removal of brake caliper
    Connondale Lefty Max 140 reduced to 110mm with MSC fat clamp and dished
    150x15mm carbon fork off of trek farley


    A few more out of Norway:
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X1 (455mm CS)
    -Nakamura Big Bob F50 (455mm CS)
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X2 (467mm CS)
    X1 and F50 come stock with JJ 4.8 on 90mm rims, but frame accepts 2XL on 100mm. Fork (Bluto) limited to 4.8'' on 100mm rims.
    X2 comes with 2XL on 100mm rims, ie. 5.2'' casing width. Both frame (aluminum) and fork (carbon) fit up to 5.6'' (ie. ''3XL'' on 100mm+rim)

    Not sure on the specifics of these:
    KHS 1000
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?

    forks dont clear:
    bluto(does not clear on sides and arch)
    renagade (clears sides not the arch by about 5mm)
    Wren forks, due to flexing forks leans and tire will contact left leg
    Huffy fits XL not 2XL
    17 Lynskey Fatskey
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    14 Specialized Fatboy
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  8. #1408
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    Did anyone on this thread do the ITI? I noticed 3 or 4 people running the PSC XXLs. Would love to hear your experiences?
    I heard second hand that they were overkill for 90% of the route and that the 10% where they helped didn't compensate for the extra effort everywhere else.
    --Peace

  9. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    I heard second hand that they were overkill for 90% of the route and that the 10% where they helped didn't compensate for the extra effort everywhere else.

    I think if you change the word "route" to "conditions" then that might get a little bit closer to the truth.

  10. #1410
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    I have Stevens Mobster (my first fat bike, now backup one), 2017 (or 2016? I got warranty frane replacement so it was free upgrade) year model, and it have alot of clearance with 4.8 tires on 80mm rims (100mm too but they are on another bike right now):
    26x5.05 XXL-20170308_140800.jpg
    26x5.05 XXL-20170308_140719.jpg
    Its like 1.5cm+ clearance on each side rear, same or bigger at front. Fork on the photo is not original, its chinese carbon one. So I suppose it will fit 5.05 easily most probably on 100mm rims.
    Its not very expensive and uses 197/150 thru axles by default. 2015 year model had smaller clearances.

    Sent from my SM-G900F

  11. #1411
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    Added some Farley updates.

    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Blackborrow size m and above frame and fork
    Surly ict frame and fork
    Quering Tripple b frame and fork
    Reeb badonkadonk frame and fork
    RSD Mayor (alu) frame and fork (limit to 80mm rims)
    Meriwether frame and fork
    Carver (titanium) frame and fork
    Pole taiga (frame and fork)
    Motobecane FB5 (frame only)
    197mm rear Trek Farley 7 (fits front and rear) and 5 (rear only though, wont fit the fork on the Farley 5) works with both 80 and 90mm rims
    9:zero:7 Whiteout (FORK ONLY)
    OEM specialized fatboy 135x9 qr front fork both alloy and carbon. require removal of brake caliper
    Connondale Lefty Max 140 reduced to 110mm with MSC fat clamp and dished
    150x15mm carbon fork off of trek farley


    A few more out of Norway:
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X1 (455mm CS)
    -Nakamura Big Bob F50 (455mm CS)
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X2 (467mm CS)
    X1 and F50 come stock with JJ 4.8 on 90mm rims, but frame accepts 2XL on 100mm. Fork (Bluto) limited to 4.8'' on 100mm rims.
    X2 comes with 2XL on 100mm rims, ie. 5.2'' casing width. Both frame (aluminum) and fork (carbon) fit up to 5.6'' (ie. ''3XL'' on 100mm+rim)

    Not sure on the specifics of these:
    KHS 1000
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?

    forks dont clear:
    bluto(does not clear on sides and arch)
    renagade (clears sides not the arch by about 5mm)
    Wren forks, due to flexing forks leans and tire will contact left leg
    Huffy fits XL not 2XL

  12. #1412
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    I recently completed the Rovaniemi 300, Europe's longest arctic race and was riding with black 2XL / XLs and like other riders, found them pretty hard work with a laden bike in cold (-17F) conditions. I think the heavy sidewalls stiffened-up considerably in the cold - how I wished for the Dillinger 5s I left at home. I still think that a 5" deep-lugged tread on a lightweight carcass like a JJ is the answer - no need for heavy sidewalls for snow.

  13. #1413
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    delete
    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-08-2018 at 09:14 PM.

  14. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by dovebiker View Post
    I recently completed the Rovaniemi 300, Europe's longest arctic race and was riding with black 2XL / XLs and like other riders, found them pretty hard work with a laden bike in cold (-17F) conditions. I think the heavy sidewalls stiffened-up considerably in the cold - how I wished for the Dillinger 5s I left at home. I still think that a 5" deep-lugged tread on a lightweight carcass like a JJ is the answer - no need for heavy sidewalls for snow.
    But the Vee guys thought you were taking your fatbike to Redbull Rampage and needed DH casings to prevent a snowflake puncture!

    I have emailed Vee regarding the need of the lighter rider who doesn't require an extra thick stiff tire. they had a meh attitude toward it.

    Going back a few years, 45Nrth had the Escalator, 1 a 180 tpi 4.0. They were discontinued and replaced with the D4. Just an example of
    how the tire market responds to the clydesdale and forgets the beanpole exists.

    ak, the 5.05 needs to be inflated to a pressure appropriate for conditions present. Hard surface, more air. Powder snow deflate em and go!
    This is why a Lezyne Microfloordrive XL is a feature on my Mayor. Like Jeepin, air up/down as needed. Same with my JJ 4.8's although, the
    JJ's actually roll nicely when they are under inflated, where the 5.05's let you know that they are low and rolling slow is what they have in
    store.

    All in all, as fun and able as the 5.05's are, there is a time and place for them. I ride em when I go on an adventure that consists of very loose terrain and some hardpack mixed in to make it interesting. Definitely not the daily driver choice.
    Concur with all the peeps that would like to see "liteSkin" options in 5+ tires for the super supple casing performance in snow/sand.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  15. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by dovebiker View Post
    I recently completed the Rovaniemi 300, Europe's longest arctic race and was riding with black 2XL / XLs and like other riders, found them pretty hard work with a laden bike in cold (-17F) conditions. I think the heavy sidewalls stiffened-up considerably in the cold - how I wished for the Dillinger 5s I left at home. I still think that a 5" deep-lugged tread on a lightweight carcass like a JJ is the answer - no need for heavy sidewalls for snow.

    Temps make little difference on the sidewalls -- you noticed the black rubber getting harder and slower as it got colder.

    Vee isn't doing a great job of educating people about the PSC compound, and how much better it is at colder temps.

    IMO, if you're riding snow (not slush, nor dirt) but sub-freezing snow, you should be on the PSC's. The colder the temps the more this should be mandated.

  16. #1416
    Oslo, Norway
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    Temps in the lower 50s in the forecast, but fantastic conditions this weekend for some serious 5''++ monster tire fun and some informal roll, freeride and climbing tests vs. Jumbo Jim 4.0.

    Seriously fun freeriding on Saturday. Had to get off in certain spots, and the snow was up to waist deep:



    More freeride goodness:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88b-yt_9WTI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXe6P0WlVLM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5uSd-rGyes

    Today, a ride in the fog with a buddy with a Canyon Dude with JJ LS 4.0 tubeless on 80s.

    First an impromptu roll test with the 5.6's at 3.4psi and the JJs at 4.2psi. I'm some 15lb lighter (rider + bike).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhfFS4HhUpQ

    We have seen te same before, thought it was a fluke then, but it seems that the proto 2XLs aka 3XLs are much, much faster rolling than the production model.

    ''Freeride test'':
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc3k7gRrJYw

    ''Climb test''.
    That hill is WAY steeper than it looks in the video.
    Randomly picked soundtrack worked pretty well.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXzjRcnqB9U

    Here I tried to groom a trail for the ''skinny set'':
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykMQfuXpk0


    I like the allround capabilities of the big tires.
    Last edited by Espen W; 03-12-2017 at 08:10 PM.

  17. #1417
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    the ultimate test would require you to put on 30kg, Espen, and use flat pedals
    only that would be indicative of how these tires would work for the rest of us

  18. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    ...how these tires would work for the rest of us
    For the rest of us who can't have them?

    Would be nice to have a wider option, here 2XL isn't enough anymore with current snow conditions.. Too much dry snow.. Had to take 2kg extra to home yesterday:


  19. #1419
    Oslo, Norway
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    Logged some rather excellent high mountain, partly powderish freeriding over the weekend:

    Even with monster tires, going uphill (much steeper than in looks) in semi windpacked, knee deep powder is hard work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaPimGhkYOM


    Much easier on flat ground:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xhFZGWD3oM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtRpCbBJHyQ


    Back on the packed trail, i checked the pressure (or lack thereof). Had a feeling that I had been riding with negative pressure (aka. vacuum) for a while.

    Turns out that I was right.
    This is 'lolo' as Snoop would say:




    As I've mentioned before, big single ply casing tires are fast, even at 2psi on a packed trail. Saying Hasta to the skiing photographer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOuOu7oYM8

  20. #1420
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    greetings from Germany

    Frame: Sandman Atacama 197
    Rims: Fatlab 100
    Fork: Salsa Bearpaw

    26x5.05 XXL-lo59dnao.jpg26x5.05 XXL-hil3glyj.jpg26x5.05 XXL-pa74urq4.jpg
    26x5.05 XXL-sm7hlvk5.jpg26x5.05 XXL-z58a6eax.jpg26x5.05 XXL-t5wtbyz5.jpg

  21. #1421
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    one more photo with the chain in the 1st gear please?

  22. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    one more photo with the chain in the 1st gear please?
    26x5.05 XXL-28713769vm.jpg

  23. #1423
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    delete
    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-08-2018 at 09:15 PM.

  24. #1424
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    So a lot of time has passed this the Snowshoe 2XL has been out. Did any manufacturer ever release a suspension fork that can fit it?

  25. #1425
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    Quote Originally Posted by vadimhellbike View Post
    So a lot of time has passed this the Snowshoe 2XL has been out. Did any manufacturer ever release a suspension fork that can fit it?
    Why would you want front suspension with such a large tire. This tire is meant to be run in deep snow. Suspension not needed for that. I have run mine in dry dirt and they are SLOW and HEAVY. Most 4.5 to 4.8 tires have plenty of grip in dry dirt.
    Out riding, leave a message

  26. #1426
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    suspended forked

    Quote Originally Posted by vadimhellbike View Post
    So a lot of time has passed this the Snowshoe 2XL has been out. Did any manufacturer ever release a suspension fork that can fit it?
    Lauf Carbonara works fine with 2XL on 100mm rim up to 9psi with tube on sand; tried neither higher pressure nor mud.

  27. #1427
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    2XL suspense

    Quote Originally Posted by OilcanRacer View Post
    This tire is meant to be run in deep snow.
    It works much better than 4.0 and usefully better than 4.5 on beach sand.
    Suspension not needed for that.
    Suspension is wanted for control if trying to carry speed over trampled sand. My understanding is that the same is true for footprints in snow and slush, particularly after refreezing.

  28. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by blekenbleu View Post
    It works much better than 4.0 and usefully better than 4.5 on beach sand.
    Suspension is wanted for control if trying to carry speed over trampled sand. My understanding is that the same is true for footprints in snow and slush, particularly after refreezing.
    For sand you are going to have to shave off 75% of the knobs. Essentially the center area. This tire throws sand (and rocks) everywhere like an angry 7 year old. With the air pressure needed to run on soft beach sand, again suspension is really not needed and will work against the low psi.
    trying to turn these tires on soft sand with front suspension will be very difficult at slow speeds as well
    Out riding, leave a message

  29. #1429
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    different strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by OilcanRacer View Post
    This tire throws sand (and rocks) everywhere like an angry 7 year old.
    I agree about small rocks, but find it no worse for sand than tires with much less tread. Those knobs seem to help traction in soft sand. Your comments about pressure are inconsistent with my experience. Pressure low enough to absorb trampled sand shocks increases rolling resistance too much for carrying speed.

  30. #1430
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    I have been running a lou rear and 2xl up front on my Fatboy in all conditions and love how it soaks up the rocks and roots. Yeah it's slow but I use it instead of susp fork. For me, I love it.

  31. #1431
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    Yes, the Manitou Mastodon supposedly will fit a 2XL.

  32. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbudell View Post
    Yes, the Manitou Mastodon supposedly will fit a 2XL.

    I've installed the 2XL in my Mastodon. Fits, no problem, even on a 105mm rim.

  33. #1433
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    Here is couple more pictures of mine unfinished build

    26x5.05 XXL-20170416_212443.jpg

    26x5.05 XXL-20170416_212517.jpg
    17 Lynskey Fatskey
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  34. #1434
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    jib

    Torque on bars from wind gusts around 20mph approx 30 degrees left of heading @ 5psi is comparable to self-steering @ 1-2psi and unexpectedly stronger than recalled with 4.0 and 4.5 Juggernauts (which were in rigid fork instead of Lauf)

  35. #1435
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    My Moonlander runs these tires just fine on 100 mm rims.
    I ride from 2 PSI TO 8 PSI, depending.

    26x5.05 XXL-wingdamnn04.jpg
    Last edited by kaleidopete; 07-28-2017 at 07:12 AM.
    Northern NJ

  36. #1436
    Oslo, Norway
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    Nice to have the big tires for some mid May riding in Oslo, Norway:



    These trails were bone dry in January.

  37. #1437
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    Crap, I am heading to Trondheim Sunday. As much as I like snow I was hoping for warmer
    Latitude 61

  38. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Crap, I am heading to Trondheim Sunday. As much as I like snow I was hoping for warmer
    More spring like weather in the forecast (note: temps in degrees celsius, of course):
    https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/S%C3%...g.html?spr=eng

  39. #1439
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    [QUOTE=Espen W;13165146]More spring like weather in the forecast (note: temps in degrees celsius, of course):
    [url]https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/S%C3%B8r

    Takk Espen, That is a much better forecast than we have been seeing. I am going with it
    Latitude 61

  40. #1440
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    My Salsa is still in winter mode, awesome tire in the summer too, at least when the "trails" are full of rocks..

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

  41. #1441
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    I'm interested in getting a bike that can accommodate these tires on 100's and right now it sounds like a newer KHS 1000 (with single ring) is the most economical way to do it (100mm rims out of the box, just buy the tires and make sure the rear wheel is far enough back in the dropouts). Given the Blackborrow was phased out in favor of "a wider mukluk," has anybody seen somebody try to fit these to it (I'm thinking 2017 Mukluk Nx1 plus whatever shows up for 2018)?

    I do want something with a sliding dropout and I've been back and forth on a Lurch but I think I'm moving towards a "no" on that bike because i want to buy from a shop.

  42. #1442
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    My Mayor clears the 5.05's on 80's with a fair amount of space however on 100's I think they would rub. Never tried it to learn the outcome tho...
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  43. #1443
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    I just retired a Vee Snowshoe 2XL (used in the rear) because the tread is worn down. I rode 1073 miles on it. The front tire (same Vee tire) still looks practically new.

    During this 1073 miles, I had zero flat tires! I use tire liners and slime.

    The worn rear tire mentioned above will now see years of service as a tire liner. I grind off the knobbies (my riding already did this on the center knobbies). This works very well.

  44. #1444
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    delete
    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-09-2018 at 10:21 PM.

  45. #1445
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    no post for you
    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-09-2018 at 08:47 PM.

  46. #1446
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    Thanks!

  47. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I think if you change the word "route" to "conditions" then that might get a little bit closer to the truth.
    Bingo

  48. #1448
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    2018 Mukluks look like the same as last year's frame specs, so I'm assuming no 2XL action? It does have alternator dropout though. Anyone know? I know it's vaporware still until they are out on the streets.

  49. #1449
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    Vee Snowshoe 2XL tires with a 70T chainring

    I thought you guys might want to see what Vee Snowshoe 2XL tires look like on a bike with a 70T chainring:

    26x5.05 XXL-image_9970.jpg

    I was reluctant to put this in this thread because this bike has a motor, but at least I hid the electronics. This is my ride to work and back which is always the most fun part of my day! The average commute speed is 30mph. My rear tires last 1100 miles and the front tires show almost no wear after 4000 miles.

    The freewheel is a 5-speed 13-32T IRD.

    This chainring was hard to find because I have a 110mm BCD. I only found one place in the world with this chainring, TriSled in Melbourne, Australia.

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  53. #1453
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    As most folks know, the 5.05 size is quite misleading, and it is partly my fault, dating back to the fall of 2014.

    In order to give a better understanding of how big these tires are, let us compare them to some well known tires on the market.

    The true, available volume of a tire will be determined by the bead to bead width, most commonly referred to in millimeters. For flotation, we want a high number since that means a tire that will spread out nicely at low pressures and create a flat, ''belt like'' interface.
    A tire with big casing width but low sidewall height might look impressive on paper, but might have a smaller footprint at (super) low psi than a narrower tire with tall sidewalls.
    The bead-bead size takes the guesswork out of this, but most folks are much, much more familiar with the casing/knob width measurement, so it is helpful to understand the relationship and translate the true volume measurement to the commonly used size measurement.

    I have never seen anyone complain about Surlys true vs. stated sizing, so let us pick a Surly tire that has been around for a while.
    Completely random pick will be the Big Fat Larry.
    It has a stated size of 4.7 and it has a bead to bead measurement of 245mm.
    This gives us a true volume to stated size ratio of 52.12

    This can be used to provide a comparable size for other tires.
    In this example the production 2XL and my prototypes, often referred to as 3XL.
    Plus a bonus tire. A big one. Very.

    The 2XL has a stated size of 5.05 and a bead-bead measurement of 297mm.
    Using the true volume (bead-bead) size and applying the correction factor that we derived from the Big Fat Larry measurement, we find the following:
    297/52.12= 5.69

    In other words, using the Big Fat Larry sizing as the norm, the 2XL would be referred to as a 5.7.


    My 2XL prototypes (aka 3XL) also have a stated size of 5.05 and a bead-bead measurement of 315mm.
    Using the true volume (bead-bead) size and applying the correction factor that we derived from the Big Fat Larry measurement, we find the following:
    315/52.12= 6.04

    In other words, using the Big Fat Larry as the norm, the 2XL (''3XL'') would be referred to as a 6.0 and close to a 6.1

    Oh, the bonus tire:
    The big tire on my shelf has a stated size of 5.5 and a bead-bead measurement of 345mm.
    (I asked the manufacturer to make a 5.5 when Vee downsized the 2XL back in the day)
    Using the true volume (bead-bead) size and applying the correction factor that we derived from the Big Fat Larry measurement, we find the following:
    345/52.12= 6.62

    In other words, using the Big Fat Larry sizing as the norm, this tire would be referred to as a 6.6.
    Big then.
    Too bad it has sidewalls that make the sidewalls of the production 2XL feel like silk in comparison.
    Last edited by Espen W; 12-08-2017 at 04:00 AM.

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  55. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Do you know their reasoning for making the bonus tire with such a thick and stiff casing? Is it a production issue or a liability/durability issue? Like in the other thread, Iím hopeful something bigger will be coming out soon but have a thin, supple casing so it works and rolls much better than the current 2XL.
    They probably had no clue as how to make a tire that big.
    An inch wider than requested, armadillo skin casing and shallow knobs with ramps on all sides..

  56. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Do you know their reasoning for making the bonus tire with such a thick and stiff casing? Is it a production issue or a liability/durability issue? Like in the other thread, Iím hopeful something bigger will be coming out soon but have a thin, supple casing so it works and rolls much better than the current 2XL.
    Probably to keep the tire from growing over time, most frames running these tires are pushing the clearance limits.

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    After using Blackborow with 2XL two winters, it seems that wider would be nicer.. it's sad that there still isn't any other options :/ (not that this frame would run with wider tires)

    Sent from my TA-1004 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Too bad it has sidewalls that make the sidewalls of the production 2XL feel like silk in comparison.
    I'd say, you lucked out and they made a prototype with the correct casing and screwed the pooch on the production 5.05.

    Either way, til there's an option out there regardless of maker, I'll run the 5.05's in the conditions that make em shine!
    Only reasoning for the heavy casings would be puncture resistance for the peeps that don't use common sense, cut em up and bellyache that stupidity is teh fault of the tire and not operator.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  59. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    ...The true, available volume of a tire will be the bead to bead width, most commonly referred to in millimeters. For flotation, we want a high number since that means a tire that will spread out nicely at low pressures and create a flat, ''belt like'' interface...
    Hi, Espen. To be sure, when you refer to the "bead-to-bead width" of a tire, do you determine it by simply placing a tape measure inside the tire and measuring from one edge to the other (following the curvature of the tire)? I seem to remember reading a long time ago that people were somehow trying to determine this measurement by flattening the tire, but that doesn't seem to lead to a very reliable measurement method. So, is the proper approach to simply do as I describe above? Thanks!

  60. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitmanNJ View Post
    Hi, Espen. To be sure, when you refer to the "bead-to-bead width" of a tire, do you determine it by simply placing a tape measure inside the tire and measuring from one edge to the other (following the curvature of the tire)? I seem to remember reading a long time ago that people were somehow trying to determine this measurement by flattening the tire, but that doesn't seem to lead to a very reliable measurement method. So, is the proper approach to simply do as I describe above? Thanks!
    Yep, us a tape measure (a flexible one, think the type that is used for measuring garments and stuff works best)

  61. #1461
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    Espen, I've noticed a few little teases coming from you in the last little while. A new frame based on the Diamant X2 that *might* be available next year from another "mystery" manufacturer... All this talk about your proto 3XL and now this shelf-treasure that I'm going to call the 4XL++...

    What exactly are you up to? :-)

    Ps. If my suspicions are correct and you have a fleet of prototype bikes with 122mm rims and 3XL tires, I'll be happy to test ride one in some Canadian snow. Shouldn't be much to ship over here, since I reckon they only weigh about 22lbs... PM for shipping address!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Yep, us a tape measure (a flexible one, think the type that is used for measuring garments and stuff works best)
    Thanks, Espen!

  63. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumX View Post
    Espen, I've noticed a few little teases coming from you in the last little while. A new frame based on the Diamant X2 that *might* be available next year from another "mystery" manufacturer... All this talk about your proto 3XL and now this shelf-treasure that I'm going to call the 4XL++...

    What exactly are you up to? :-)

    Ps. If my suspicions are correct and you have a fleet of prototype bikes with 122mm rims and 3XL tires, I'll be happy to test ride one in some Canadian snow. Shouldn't be much to ship over here, since I reckon they only weigh about 22lbs... PM for shipping address!
    Good questions!
    However, on the tire side, there are little news. My ''3XLs'' are two of only four known ones in the world and the ''4XL'' is not usable with its ultra stiff casing and ramped knobs. The company (Chao Yang) downsized my 345mm prototype to a true 5.5'' (I measured it at Taipei in 2016) and they showed it at Interbike last year, but it gathered little attention: https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ0Dkm1ByTi/
    They kept the ultra thick casing and ''non optimal'' knob shape from the protos.
    I reviewed the knob pattern when they proposed it before the proto was made and I naturally told them to redesign, but it did not happen.

    Frames:
    Might do a production run of an improved version of the X2 frame/bike as a fairly low cost option, but I actually forgot (honest!) that we already have a 3XL capable frame ourselves, with adjustable chainstays from 445-465mm. It was made before I joined the company as a custom made match for our Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub.
    Short presentation of the bike and hub:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQvUZ-rEd54
    https://www.facebook.com/kindernay/v...8290440519437/

  64. #1464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    The company (Chao Yang) downsized my 345mm prototype to a true 5.5'' (I measured it at Taipei in 2016) and they showed it at Interbike last year, but it gathered little attention: https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ0Dkm1ByTi/
    They kept the ultra thick casing and ''non optimal'' knob shape from the protos./
    Wow... That tire actually looks stiff in pictures. And yeah, horrible tread pattern / knob design.

    Honestly, I'm kind of on the fence about the 3XL. If they existed with a nice, supple casing, I would definitely want them and put them to good use. But I have to temper that against the expense of a new frame. All things considered, I might be just as happy riding the 2XL with a more pliable casing on the bike I have.

  65. #1465
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    Had experience with chao yang atv tires back in the day. Seems like even if they get the design right, and at the time they had some maxxis clones (gold standard back then for gncc). The rubber was crap, they were heavy and the belting was sub par.

    This might be why they made tires that weigh billions of pounds.

  66. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post

    I have never seen anyone complain about Surlys true vs. stated sizing, so let us pick a Surly tire that has been around for a while.
    Completely random pick will be the Big Fat Larry.
    It has a stated size of 4.7 and it has a bead to bead measurement of 245mm.
    This gives us a true volume to stated size ratio of 52.12
    A little part of the engineer in me died when you divided mm/in for that ratio.

  67. #1467
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    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-09-2018 at 08:40 PM.

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    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-09-2018 at 08:40 PM.

  69. #1469
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    I'd like to see a picture of them on a small Moonlander....

    After a couple of rides on the bud/Lou combo on my Moonie, I can't imagine what kind of crazy "float" the 2xl's are like.

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  71. #1471
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    Hmmmm...thanks AK.

    Bud/Lou are pretty awesome.

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  73. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    I was doing some reading about the Moonlander the other day and found some threads where guys were having cleanance issues both at the fork and frame. Iíve also seen photos with 2XLís on Moonlanders but itís my impression that they donít fit so well on the smaller size frames.

    I recall emailing Surly about clearance for the 2XL on a small frame ICT and they said it was too big and didnít meet their minimum clearance requirements. What Iíve found with two different frames now that even if it fits and just barely clears on the stand, it will rub in the field due to the frame flexing. It also doesnít help that the 2XLís build quality is so shoddy that the carcass has a wobble cast into it. Iíve got 5 of these tires and every single one has the wobble.
    I pretty sceptical of most of the claims that frames fit these tires. Maybe, they do under idea conditions, but with tire stretch and a little bump induced wobble, I bet not.

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  74. #1474
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    I've been running 2XL's on my Moonlander for a while with no problem.
    Right now I run Bud & Lou though because I can stud them with Gripstuds.
    I don't think a studded 2XL would fit because I use bigger Gripstuds than what is recommended. #3000 stud.

    26x5.05 XXL-wingdamnn04.jpg
    Northern NJ

  75. #1475
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  76. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleidopete View Post
    I've been running 2XL's on my Moonlander for a while with no problem.
    Right now I run Bud & Lou though because I can stud them with Gripstuds.
    I don't think a studded 2XL would fit because I use bigger Gripstuds than what is recommended. #3000 stud.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "for a while" is that a few thousand miles or a few hundred?

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  77. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    "for a while" is that a few thousand miles or a few hundred?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    It is realistically 8 hundred miles. I've had them since 12/2015 but alternate tires for different occasions.
    I got the 2XLís just because I thought they were cool. I donít use them for ďfloatĒ on snow or sand, I just wanted to try them out and have fun at the very low air pressure I can run them at. They are great fun! My tires of choice are still Bud & Lou. I run them studded in the winter ice and snow and unstudded in the summer months. If Iím going for road riding I switch over to Knards, as they roll better. I donít do any serious riding for competition, Iím just out having fun, and the 2XLís are a lot of fun for me.
    Last edited by kaleidopete; 12-31-2017 at 09:04 AM.
    Northern NJ

  78. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleidopete View Post
    I've been running 2XL's on my Moonlander for a while with no problem.
    Right now I run Bud & Lou though because I can stud them with Gripstuds.
    I don't think a studded 2XL would fit because I use bigger Gripstuds than what is recommended. #3000 stud.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What is that attachment on your rear rack?

    I have the same rack and am interested in attaching some various items.

    Also I see the brackets that attach to the top of the seat stays are black. Did you paint them? If so how did you prep/paint them?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  79. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    What is that attachment on your rear rack?

    I have the same rack and am interested in attaching some various items.

    Also I see the brackets that attach to the top of the seat stays are black. Did you paint them? If so how did you prep/paint them?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I made those extra brackets out of Aluminium and painted them. They give me a little extra strength for my chain saw or whatever I carry.
    The other holder I made is also Aluminium and holds my flask.
    26x5.05 XXL-rack-rear2.jpg
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  80. #1480
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    I just installed 2XLs on my Surly Ice Cream Truck. I used the slotted through-axle dropouts in the rear. There's plenty of clearance to the frame all around with the axle pulled all the way back. The chain rubs the tire in the inner chainring/largest cog combo with the stock Surly OD crank. I put a spacer from an 8 speed cassette behind the cassette and removed the second-smallest cog. So far, so good. A 1x drivetrain with the front chainring spaced out a bit would probably work as well.

  81. #1481
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    (Posted in the film thread too, but at home here as well):

    Major, chaos inducing snow dump here in Oslo, Norway, so the #1 MTB magazine in the country asked me to make a video clip showing some good old fashioned powder ridin' with some street action thrown in for some good measure.
    I was happy to oblige as it involved three favorite things:
    Powder, fatbike & Mavic Pro drone.

    30-40cm of fresh powder with a touch of humidity for traction. ''Snowshoe 3XL'' at 0psi meant go-anywhere conditions. Lots of fun. Pumped back up to 3.5psi for the ride back home, tested that in the powder and was going nowhere, so sub 1psi was the clue, no surprise.

    Got an article that is on the front page of their website right now, and the video is on their ''TV'' channel:
    Puddersykling - fftv.no

    Here it is on Youtube as well:

  82. #1482
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    Tricky conditions last night with approx. a foot and a half of fresh snow. Biggest problem was downed trees.

    Interesting detail:
    Stuff that was competely rideable at 0.0psi was mission impossible at still ''fairly low'' 0.4psi (zeropointfour)
    A stock 2XL, with its somewhat smaller size and most importantly, stiff casing will, even at 0.0psi, not have the ability to spread out and conform to the surface as well as the single ply version at for example 0.4. Throw thick tubes into the 2XLs and they are much further off.

    Cool to have such insane tires for myself, but would be nice if others could get snow riding capabilities at this level too.


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    I'm almost relieved that the 3XL's aren't available, because I would want to / have to have them. And then a frame to fit them into... and then rims to maximize their potential... and then components to fit around them... and then, and then, and then...

    That said, I continue to be amazed by the traction I get with my 2XL's. Conditions and terrain that would've been unrideable on other tires are easy on these, as long as I can keep my legs moving. And returning to tracks a few days later often showed that other riders tried to follow but either gave up and turned around or walked their bikes.

    Loving my 2XL's!! :-)
    Last edited by MaximumX; 01-23-2018 at 11:48 AM.

  84. #1484
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    Vee shoots self in foot

    To those who are interested in the 2XL, 3XL or larger and willing to purchase a frame or even build one to accommodate these tires and there float capabilities, only to learn that the tire is manufactured w thick heavy casings and poor lug patterns.

    Vee's neglect must be hurting sales.

    I do appreciate Vee for at least making a 2xl, but can we send them a JJ lite-skin tire as an appropriate sidewall sample? Or something?
    Last edited by Kirkerik; 01-24-2018 at 08:41 AM.
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

    The tires are the things on your bike that make contact w the trail

  85. #1485
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    From last nights ride. Approx. 20'' of cold, fresh snow, but one person had walked there, and that makes a massive difference. The footprints are MUCH deeper than what it looks like in the vid, as the 2D nature of video makes it look like there is hardly any snow on the ground

    0.0psi


  86. #1486
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    I've been using 2XL's (PSC) on 100mm rims for a year and they definitely do better in fresh deep snow than "conventional" fat tires, but even at 0 PSI 4-5" is the absolute limit. 6" or deeper, you're not going anywhere. The 3XL's must be a real game-changer.

  87. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by campykid View Post
    I've been using 2XL's (PSC) on 100mm rims for a year and they definitely do better in fresh deep snow than "conventional" fat tires, but even at 0 PSI 4-5" is the absolute limit. 6" or deeper, you're not going anywhere. The 3XL's must be a real game-changer.
    They are, and most of it vs. the (production) 2XL comes from the 1 ply casing.

  88. #1488
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    Nothing like riding on the moon, Espen!

    Sure would be nice if my 2XL's weren't so stiff and heavy. Makes riding a real 120 tpi tire feel like riding one a tube with no tire...

    Perhaps you can get it through Vee's thick heads on tire requirements for real snow riding, as I've been stonewalled by dimwits that think we are wanting a tire for Redbull Rampage instead of snow! The 2XL's are not what I thought they would be with the stupid thick and stiff casings.
    Perhaps the damn things just need to be 240 TPI :/

    I find the Bud/Lou to be my go to for most of my adventure rides in the high country since they are many times more supple for my 72kg ass to get the right performance.

    6" does NOT stop a Mayor! 10-12" and we're Jeepin for sure. Above that and it's just too much like work...
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  89. #1489
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    try talking to Duro (Hwa Fong) too - they already make a production tire with quite thin and pliable casing which works tubelessly (Crux)

  90. #1490
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    That might be doable although, Duro is notorious for heavy as hell thick wall tires.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  91. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    try talking to Duro (Hwa Fong) too - they already make a production tire with quite thin and pliable casing which works tubelessly (Crux)
    My good friend Luke used to work at Duro, but just moved jobs to Goodyear, but Duro might be able to do something.
    When Vee decided to downsize my 2XL protos for production back in 2015, I contacted Schwalbe, Chao Yang, Maxxis and Kenda to see if they would do a 5.5''.
    Chao Yang agreed to do it, but as mentioned, the 345mm bead-bead (6.5'' on a 100mm rim) proto that I got was just massively overbuilt and the knob pattern, etc was sub standard.

    A 5.5'' Schwalbe LiteSkin would be nice, but the casing that comes the closest to my Vee protos is the one that Kenda uses on the Juggernaut Pro.
    It is not that the casing is exceptionally thin on either (same thickness as a XC racing tire), but most fatbike tires are so massively overbuilt that the Vee proto and Kenda ones feel super thin in comparision.
    Two things prevent a tire from spreading out and taking the optimal form for flotation and traction on soft snow and that is air pressure and the stiffness of the casing. Air pressure is easy to manipulate, but a stiff casing will try to keep its round shape, preventing flotation and reducing grip vs a soft and conformable casing. Not to mention, much higher rolling resistance at low pressures too, as we have to constantly deform that stiff casing as the tire rolls.
    Imagine rolling an almost deflated basket ball vs an almost deflated party balloon and one gets the concept.

  92. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Nothing like riding on the moon, Espen!

    Sure would be nice if my 2XL's weren't so stiff and heavy. Makes riding a real 120 tpi tire feel like riding on a tube with no tire...
    Think it would be worth carefully grinding down the side of the casing w a small rotary tool that would not get out of hand on a $$ tire? Might just ruin them DEPENDING on the construction of the casing but if there was extra material on the inside or outside that is not cord ( just rubber) it might work. Imagine brushing off extra (not needed) rubber.

    Anyone BORED!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Perhaps you can get it through Vee's thick heads on tire requirements for real snow riding, as I've been stonewalled by dimwits that think we are wanting a tire for Redbull Rampage instead of snow!
    Maybe that's what Vee is unwittingly hoping for!? A 2XL on the Rampage course! Bah!!
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  93. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Imagine rolling an almost deflated basket ball vs an almost deflated party balloon and one gets the concept.
    Maybe this ^^ is exactly what Vee needs to see to get it across to them. Or some other example? Have you attempted anything of the sort w them?
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  94. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    Think it would be worth carefully grinding down the side of the casing w a small rotary tool that would not get out of hand on a $$ tire? Might just ruin them DEPENDING on the construction of the casing but if there was extra material on the inside or outside that is not cord ( just rubber) it might work. Imagine brushing off extra (not needed) rubber.
    IF only that would be viable! Durometer of the casing rubber as well as the layup of the fabric is what makes these so damn stiff. Quantity of rubber in the fabric during casing fabrication is also a contribution to stiffness.

    Have a look at the light weight casing of the JJ or Jugger. They have a very light coating over the threads where Vee opted to use a thick coating.

    Could be awesome to come up with a 5.05 with a lightskin casing and 42a tread compound to make for the best loose conditions tire for the rider that isn't north of 200#'s. A softer compound used to fabricate the casing fabric would certainly make em more supple too.


    Espen has an in over there at Vee that absolutely hooked him up on those 5.6's.
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  95. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    They have a very light coating over the threads where Vee opted to use a thick coating.
    yeah just thinking it may be possible to get that thicker coating off till starting to see threads like lite-skin but not cutting them. Now that I think more about it, it would be a grueling surgical procedure taking hours but possible. NOT viable...
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  96. #1496
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    Maybe it's time to use tubulars on fatbikes...
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  97. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Maybe it's time to use tubulars on fatbikes...
    Here ya go!!

    26x5.05 XXL-challenge-cyclocross-gravel-tires-cxmagazine-img_9872-e_1.jpg
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  98. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    My good friend Luke used to work at Duro, but just moved jobs to Goodyear, but Duro might be able to do something.
    When Vee decided to downsize my 2XL protos for production back in 2015, I contacted Schwalbe, Chao Yang, Maxxis and Kenda to see if they would do a 5.5''.
    Chao Yang agreed to do it, but as mentioned, the 345mm bead-bead (6.5'' on a 100mm rim) proto that I got was just massively overbuilt and the knob pattern, etc was sub standard.

    A 5.5'' Schwalbe LiteSkin would be nice, but the casing that comes the closest to my Vee protos is the one that Kenda uses on the Juggernaut Pro.
    It is not that the casing is exceptionally thin on either (same thickness as a XC racing tire), but most fatbike tires are so massively overbuilt that the Vee proto and Kenda ones feel super thin in comparision.
    Two things prevent a tire from spreading out and taking the optimal form for flotation and traction on soft snow and that is air pressure and the stiffness of the casing. Air pressure is easy to manipulate, but a stiff casing will try to keep its round shape, preventing flotation and reducing grip vs a soft and conformable casing. Not to mention, much higher rolling resistance at low pressures too, as we have to constantly deform that stiff casing as the tire rolls.
    Imagine rolling an almost deflated basket ball vs an almost deflated party balloon and one gets the concept.
    Since you have a good enough relationship with Vee for them to make and send you one-off prototypes, could you get them to make more exactly like them? Studded, larger, and lighter than 2XL are the three most important factors; I guess they could use a different tread pattern such as snow avalanche and people wouldn't be too upset. But we have a whole thread full of hungry people here (well here and the 3XL thread) and for some reason none of the manufacturers are stepping up. It would help if somebody like you with manufacturer contacts could step up and speak for us!

  99. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willum View Post
    Since you have a good enough relationship with Vee for them to make and send you one-off prototypes, could you get them to make more exactly like them? Studded, larger, and lighter than 2XL are the three most important factors; I guess they could use a different tread pattern such as snow avalanche and people wouldn't be too upset. But we have a whole thread full of hungry people here (well here and the 3XL thread) and for some reason none of the manufacturers are stepping up. It would help if somebody like you with manufacturer contacts could step up and speak for us!
    +1

    Studs as an option. 2XL based on the 3XL prototype, yus!
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  100. #1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willum View Post
    Since you have a good enough relationship with Vee for them to make and send you one-off prototypes, could you get them to make more exactly like them? Studded, larger, and lighter than 2XL are the three most important factors; I guess they could use a different tread pattern such as snow avalanche and people wouldn't be too upset. But we have a whole thread full of hungry people here (well here and the 3XL thread) and for some reason none of the manufacturers are stepping up. It would help if somebody like you with manufacturer contacts could step up and speak for us!
    I think the limitation here is the (lack of) availability of frames to run them on. Even the 2XL was a big leap of faith, and I have no idea if it even paid off for them. Maybe I missed it if it was mentioned, but did VEE make any money on their production?

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