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  1. #1
    How much does it weigh?
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    170mm Industry Nine Hubs!

    Dan, Thanks for the inquiry. However, currently there isn't enough demand
    for us to justify producing these hubs (this is the first request I've had).
    If demand builds in the future we might consider it.

    Thanks,
    Jacob
    Start sending your requests in guys!

    Maybe we can get them in pairs, with matching 135mm front.

  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Get King on it. I was not blown away by my i9's.

  3. #3
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    King already said no to a few people from what I've read.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy View Post
    Get King on it. I was not blown away by my i9's.

    I've been bugging King already about this.

    I-9 would be cool too. But yeah- they'll need to see a hefty number of folks before they re-program the CNC machines.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    King already said no to a few people from what I've read.

    They didn't necessarily say "no" to me. It was more about that they have a limited production capability that is being taxed already. Other projects that they were trying to fulfill orders for were going to take priority, like their new road hubs.

    At least that's what I've been told.

    They were interested in the 170mm hub idea though, and listened to my pitch.
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  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
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    i9 just seems like a lateral move from Hadley. If you want to go up, there is only one direction from here...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    Start sending your requests in guys!

    Maybe we can get them in pairs, with matching 135mm front.
    I want durable and dependable in my fat hubs. Pretty much the opposite of I9...

    MC

  8. #8
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    I'd like to see some Hopes just because they're a good middle of the road hub.

  9. #9
    How much does it weigh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I want durable and dependable in my fat hubs. Pretty much the opposite of I9...

    MC
    I know some guys riding trials on them, and they're working fine for them.

    If they can depend on them, I have no doubt I can ride them on my Fatback with zero issue.

  10. #10
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    Speaking of trials.... I was thinking about this the other day.....

    A friend of mine took a 135mm ISO King, put the freehub body out of a SS King and made himself an axle, so he has a King in the rear of a 20 inch trials bike.....

    Would it be possible to take the 135mm SS King, fit the wider geared freehub body and make an axle to suit? Would have to be damn close to 170mm???

  11. #11
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    You don't need to make an axle to fit a King in a Mod, you just take the BMX hub and put an ISO MTB shell on it, they're the same shell, one just has ISO mounts.

    King's 150mm hub uses the SS hub shell, with the 9 spd Freehub.

  12. #12
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    Damn. But thanks

  13. #13
    How much does it weigh?
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    What we need is 20mm wider hub shell, with equal flange spacing, and the freehub in the right spot, unlike the 150mm hub that has too much of a space between the freehub and the dropout.

  14. #14
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    I know some guys riding trials on them, and they're working fine for them.
    Trials at 50 below zero, or for weeks on end through the surf on a wilderness coast?

    Damn, those guys are good.

  15. #15
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    I've seen some XT hubs chopped and extended to 170 with a press fit shim.
    Somebody needs to do this with DT 240s hubs. You'd need to make a longer axle too.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy View Post
    Trials at 50 below zero, or for weeks on end through the surf on a wilderness coast?

    Damn, those guys are good.
    You're deliberately not quoting the rest of my post.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I want durable and dependable in my fat hubs. Pretty much the opposite of I9...

    MC
    Just curious what issues you've had, as you aren't a guy to throw a product under the bus without reason.

    I've owned several pairs, and they have been issue free summer, winter, for years. Non drive side rear hub bearings crapping out has been the only thing I can think of.

    And compared to a King (no dislike for them here) the I9's can be rebuilt in about 10 minutes with basic tools when they do need some love....

    And just FYI to all you guys with these fancy hubs, Du Monde Tech now has a grease for them that doesn't separate like Ring Drive lube does, and is good down to super frigid temps. Both King and I9 have approved it for use in their products. Just got my tub of it, and it's been really nice to not have a bunch of clear crap spooge out first when I go to use it!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    I know some guys riding trials on them, and they're working fine for them.

    If they can depend on them, I have no doubt I can ride them on my Fatback with zero issue.
    You'll have to educate me on the similarities between trials and XC. And by "XC" I mean crossing some country, where you're far enough out that you can't drag a broken bike (the one you're "depending on") over to the bus stop to get back home.

    Please?

    MC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You'll have to educate me on the similarities between trials and XC. And by "XC" I mean crossing some country, where you're far enough out that you can't drag a broken bike (the one you're "depending on") over to the bus stop to get back home.

    Please?

    MC
    None, just the fact they're putting super high torque loads on the hub many many times in a row, if a hub has a weakness, trials will quickly find it.

    Bearings aside, mechanical failure doesn't seem to be the biggest concern riding XC, it seems you should be more concerned about the lube or grease used in the ratchet mechanism.

    Instead of coming into peoples threads and being a downer, why don't you tell us why I9 hubs are essentially "no good".

    Someone even asked you already, and you neglected to inform us.

  20. #20
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    Torque is one measure of a hub's durability. But I'm a chicken breasted puss--I put out less torque than a scared newt. Not a concern of mine, even with fat tires, heavy loads, and a 36t cog. Or at least, not a concern with the hubs I typically use.

    But there are many other factors that, um, factor into hub durability. What's the maintenance interval on the drive mechanism, and how easy is it to perform? Doable in the field with no special tools? No tools at all?

    Bearing sealing? Bearing fit in the shell? Ease of access to replace the bearings?

    How often has the design changed through the years? I.e how easy is it to find replacement parts in 1, 3, 5 and even 10 years?

    All of the these questions need to be asked, and their answers considered, before choosing a hub. "Pay now or pay later" comes to mind. With I9, it seems you get to do both.

    All of these thoughts run through my mind when yet another soon-to-be-customer sends an email requesting a fresh wheelbuild, and cites the reason as:
    -"Frustrated with my I9's"
    -"Tired of getting the runaround from I9"
    -"A buddy talked me into I9's, and three months running they've been nothing but a hassle".
    -"Wanted to like I9's, but now I can't remember why...".


    And on and on.

    And the reasons behind those reasons?
    -Bad tolerances on the bearing fit in the shell--some bearings fall into the bore unassisted, others are press fit, but so tight the bearing binds.
    -Bearings pressed in cocked--premature failure..
    -Early (like after a month) failure of the drive mech. Think shrapnel inside the shell, roaching everything else therein.
    -Chronic loosening of the axle--wheels are sloppy in the frame.
    -Poor seals: muck gets inside, bearings get killed, new bearings have fit issues as above.

    Need more? There's plenty to go around.

    I've never been a fan of their proprietary spokes--no secret there. But I'm a dealer for and have wanted to like their classic hubs for years. The jewel-quality finish, as well as color and axle options are appealing to many--myself included. The drive mech design sounds *brilliant*--on paper. The engagement is important to some but I can't tell the difference, even when looking for it, from an 18pt DT. When you get beyond all that and the problems are many and persistent, and the answers from the company are "Oh yeah, we fixed that" for months on end, or, rarer yet far worse, "We've never heard of that", red flags go up.

    When these problems persist for years, I stop carrying the hubs, and wonder why people still want them?

    Perhaps it's baseless hype from fanboys like yourself that drives demand?

    Probably.

    MC

  21. #21
    How much does it weigh?
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    Fanboy? I don't own a set. I'm not saying they're amazing hubs.

    I simply want there to be more options.

    You've got to remember that Cycling should be a passion, and not a career

    If I was a "Fanboy" it would be for King, the only company that actually makes an innovative hub, that actually lasts.

    In which I can easily tell the difference between my 36pt Hadley and my previous 72pt King. E.g. Riding through rock garden, or deep snow where the pedal would strike, going uphill and needing the power to be there when you need it, not 5 degrees ahead in your pedal stroke, give or take, depending on what gear you're in.

    Just an FYI, I'm looking to buy hubs for a set of summer 29'er wheels for my Fatback, 2 pairs of Hadley's isn't where I want to go. I may have lucked out on mine, every set I've ever had to work on have had bearings that drop in with zero effort, and are impossible to eliminate the play when the wheel is mounted. Mine however do not have this issue, but I wouldn't drop $650 again to possibly have this issue.

    Till you **** in my thread, I've never heard a bad thing about I9 except bearings going on them after a couple seasons, which is obvious when you beat the crap out of your bike all year.

  22. #22
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    I would prefer to ride I9's any day over King hubs. I speak from experience as I've owned three sets of each. My first set of King's about 12 years ago were great and never had an issue with them. The last set however were constantly sticking and dragging. After several rebuilds and dealing with Chris King's horrible service I decided to try out some I9's. I can tell you they are a much better product and company. The only issue I ever had with them was turn around time on wheel builds. I wouldn't hesitate to give them more of my hard earned cash. I contacted them last year while building my Fatback about having a set built but no go. Hopefully in the future but for now the Hadley's have been great. No complaints so far but I ride my snow bike very little compared to my Epic and Enduro.

    Ultimately I would prefer DT Swiss as they are super reliable and extremely easy to find parts for. Just not as blingy. But the chance that DT would enter the market is probably worse than I9 and King entering it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancelot View Post
    Ultimately I would prefer DT Swiss as they are super reliable and extremely easy to find parts for. Just not as blingy. But the chance that DT would enter the market is probably worse than I9 and King entering it.
    DT was in the market before anyone else--I've got their 440 hubs in 165mm on both of my Snoots'.

    The 165's were originally made for DH applications, but the huckers and bashers went to 150, and the demand for 165 vanished in the space of a year. Thus, DT stopped making 165 hubs.

    Of King, I9, and DT, DT would be most likely to make a new batch--the tech drawings already exist, guts are identical to every other 240 and 440 hub out there (other than the wider axle), and they've been mass produced in the past. But they don't see the value in spending heaps of time, manpower, and money to tool up to do this, because it's such a tiny market. It's a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Can't say I blame them one bit.

    If it weren't for Surly throwing heaps and heaps of money at this niche, this forum wouldn't exist, 9/10ths of the people on fatbikes to date would never have seen nor thrown a leg over one, and 'innovation' in fatbike land would be limited to creatively snipping tread patterns into Gazzaloddis. Yet some (not you) see fit to whine about not having enough options. Fact is we all need to take a gander around and realize how good we have it.

    MC

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    Personally I am thrilled!! A big thank you to all that have helped bring these things "out".
    [although with all this new stuff out, I am kind of like a kid in a candy store] ooh pretty.. I want that.. and that.... ooh and that..

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    DT was in the market before anyone else--I've got their 440 hubs in 165mm on both of my Snoots'.

    The 165's were originally made for DH applications, but the huckers and bashers went to 150, and the demand for 165 vanished in the space of a year. Thus, DT stopped making 165 hubs.
    Interesting. I had forgotten about you mentioning the DT Swiss 165 hubs once before. Thanks for that reminder, and the short history lesson.

    Of King, I9, and DT, DT would be most likely to make a new batch--the tech drawings already exist, guts are identical to every other 240 and 440 hub out there (other than the wider axle), and they've been mass produced in the past. But they don't see the value in spending heaps of time, manpower, and money to tool up to do this, because it's such a tiny market. It's a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Can't say I blame them one bit.
    Yeah, I get that fat bikes are a tiny niche. Reminds me of 2003 and 29"ers.

    If it weren't for Surly throwing heaps and heaps of money at this niche, this forum wouldn't exist, 9/10ths of the people on fatbikes to date would never have seen nor thrown a leg over one, and 'innovation' in fatbike land would be limited to creatively snipping tread patterns into Gazzaloddis. Yet some (not you) see fit to whine about not having enough options. Fact is we all need to take a gander around and realize how good we have it.

    MC
    Right again. We do "have it good", as you say. And as far as hubs at 170mm go, there will be a couple more choices eventually, just not from any of the previously mentioned "high end" sources.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    DT was in the market before anyone else--I've got their 440 hubs in 165mm on both of my Snoots'.

    The 165's were originally made for DH applications, but the huckers and bashers went to 150, and the demand for 165 vanished in the space of a year. Thus, DT stopped making 165 hubs.

    MC
    Sorry Mike, I forgot about the 165's. I was so focused in on 170's. I'm sure the 165's are worth their weight in gold now after this.

  27. #27
    is buachail foighneach me
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    I would rather see a 170 Alfine8.

  28. #28
    How much does it weigh?
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    Maybe we should all vote on what manufacturer to ask?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    I would rather see a 170 Alfine8.
    A 5 speed Sturmey-Archer in their cruiser hub - currently a 3 speed 170mm - looks feasible with a bit of modification. I'm intending having a go at this later but I've got other projects in the way.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  30. #30
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    As usual, more options always seems like a good idea, so why so much resistance? Can't hurt to ask right? I've never even seen I9's in person, so I don't have an opinion on those, and I've never ridden a fatbike (yet), but I don't see how asking a company to look into making hubs is a bad idea, even if their hubs aren't the greatest. Ask King, DT and Hope while you're at it... geez...

  31. #31
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    I'd rather have Novatec make some. The $60 pair I have on my road bike are incredibly smooth. Sealed bearings, anodized finish, etc. 90% of the big name quality at 10% of the price.

    Oh wait, my bike uses 135mm hubs, I can get those anywhere
    Jason
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG410 View Post
    I'd rather have Novatec make some. The $60 pair I have on my road bike are incredibly smooth. Sealed bearings, anodized finish, etc. 90% of the big name quality at 10% of the price.

    Oh wait, my bike uses 135mm hubs, I can get those anywhere
    Nice

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG410 View Post
    I'd rather have Novatec make some. The $60 pair I have on my road bike are incredibly smooth. Sealed bearings, anodized finish, etc. 90% of the big name quality at 10% of the price.
    already do. Joytech makes the Fatback import hub and Novatec is just the higher-end brand name of Joytech hubs

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    As usual, more options always seems like a good idea, so why so much resistance? Can't hurt to ask right? I've never even seen I9's in person, so I don't have an opinion on those, and I've never ridden a fatbike (yet), but I don't see how asking a company to look into making hubs is a bad idea, even if their hubs aren't the greatest. Ask King, DT and Hope while you're at it... geez...
    You make a good point. And I can see where some would be chafed with the way I made mine.

    So let me put it a different way: What good is another option if it's a crap option?

    Would anyone be happy if Surly (or anyone else) brought out another big tire that was 2000g, had crap traction, and lasted less than 100 miles?

    It's another option, right? More automatically = better, right?!

    How 'bout Remolino rims--anyone still fighting to keep their tires on 'em? 12 years ago we were *thrilled* to have a chance to get them, and fight with them. I don't see where having that option would be beneficial today. Do you?

    MC

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You make a good point. And I can see where some would be chafed with the way I made mine.

    So let me put it a different way: What good is another option if it's a crap option?

    Would anyone be happy if Surly (or anyone else) brought out another big tire that was 2000g, had crap traction, and lasted less than 100 miles?

    It's another option, right? More automatically = better, right?!

    How 'bout Remolino rims--anyone still fighting to keep their tires on 'em? 12 years ago we were *thrilled* to have a chance to get them, and fight with them. I don't see where having that option would be beneficial today. Do you?

    MC
    I hear a lot of people say they wouldn't run anything else but Industry Nine's. I also hear people say they would never run Kings again. For every lover there are two more haters, everybody has the right to their opinion but sometimes people just need to say I got a lemon and it happens. Just like Crossmax people will swear they are junk and personally I really liked the set I had. I say give us options

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    Quality 170mm hubs are still hard to get. I've tried many times to email Speedway cycles about ordering a hubset but never got an answer. :-( ( Any hints to get a reply :-P )

    So yeah more companies getting in fatbike hubs would be welcome.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by igonzo128 View Post
    Quality 170mm hubs are still hard to get. I've tried many times to email Speedway cycles about ordering a hubset but never got an answer. :-( ( Any hints to get a reply :-P )

    So yeah more companies getting in fatbike hubs would be welcome.
    They don't seem to answer emails, but I have called them with great success.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I hear a lot of people say they wouldn't run anything else but Industry Nine's. I also hear people say they would never run Kings again. For every lover there are two more haters, everybody has the right to their opinion but sometimes people just need to say I got a lemon and it happens. Just like Crossmax people will swear they are junk and personally I really liked the set I had. I say give us options
    Yes, there are "lemons" out there from every brand, and nothing is perfect. That's a "Captain Obvious" statement. Nothing really revealing there.

    What might be good here is to consider the source. Mike has more wheels go through his hands in a year than most of us will ever see in a lifetime. His business is building wheels.

    If he is seeing a lot of failures, (ie: more than just a "lemon" type complaint from a random poster on a forum, for example.), then I am perking up my ears, because it means he is seeing several folks have similar problems. Maybe something endemic that we wouldn't catch is going on that he does catch because of the sheer numbers of incidents he is observing. Sample size and all that, ya know?

    Just to be clear- I own my two I-9 wheel sets outright, both single speed sets. I bought the first set back in 2006, and my last set I bought used in 2010. Neither has ever given me pause for concern, but these are only two hubs.

    Also, for what it is worth, I would welcome a 170mm OLD rear hub from I-9 if whatever problems Mike is referring to were addressed by I-9.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Yes, there are "lemons" out there from every brand, and nothing is perfect. That's a "Captain Obvious" statement. Nothing really revealing there.

    What might be good here is to consider the source. Mike has more wheels go through his hands in a year than most of us will ever see in a lifetime. His business is building wheels.

    If he is seeing a lot of failures, (ie: more than just a "lemon" type complaint from a random poster on a forum, for example.), then I am perking up my ears, because it means he is seeing several folks have similar problems. Maybe something endemic that we wouldn't catch is going on that he does catch because of the sheer numbers of incidents he is observing. Sample size and all that, ya know?

    Just to be clear- I own my two I-9 wheel sets outright, both single speed sets. I bought the first set back in 2006, and my last set I bought used in 2010. Neither has ever given me pause for concern, but these are only two hubs.
    Also, for what it is worth, I would welcome a 170mm OLD rear hub from I-9 if whatever problems Mike is referring to were addressed by I-9.
    Call me out of the loop but I don't even know who Mike C. Is. One thing I do know if believed everything the experts say I would still be using tubes in my non tubeless tires.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Call me out of the loop but I don't even know who Mike C. Is. One thing I do know if believed everything the experts say I would still be using tubes in my non tubeless tires.
    He's been in the wheel building business a long time Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels

    Probably knows a thing or three about hubs.

    And for the record, the "experts" were touting the virtues of tubeless tire conversions in the late 90's rather loudly. (I believe Stan was running around at the XC events by that time)
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by igonzo128 View Post
    Quality 170mm hubs are still hard to get. I've tried many times to email Speedway cycles about ordering a hubset but never got an answer. :-( ( Any hints to get a reply :-P )

    So yeah more companies getting in fatbike hubs would be welcome.
    Sometimes for whatever reasons my replies some back "undeliverable." On occasion, particularly in foreign countries, there has been trouble with gmail not getting through. Feel free to give us a call.
    Our import hubs will all be QR with stainless bearings, 32 hole and should arrive in the next week or two.
    Speedway Cycles owner http://fatbackbikes.com

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    Are you also getting frames in two weeks?

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