100mm generator hub on an offset Pugs fork: Salsa MukLuk 135mm Rear Wheel Adaptor?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Frt Range, CO
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    100mm generator hub on an offset Pugs fork: Salsa MukLuk 135mm Rear Wheel Adaptor?

    I want to install a generator hub on my Pugs but I don't want the expense of replacing the offset fork/rim with a 100mm Pugs fork and new centered rim. Would a Salsa MukLuk 135mm Rear Wheel Adaptor allow a 100mm generator hub to work on the Pugs 135mm offset front fork?

  2. #2
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    No. IS disc mount dimensions are different front to rear, and the steel Pugsley fork dropouts are nothing like the aluminum rears of the Mukluk.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I want to install a generator hub on my Pugs but I don't want the expense of replacing the offset fork/rim with a 100mm Pugs fork and new centered rim. Would a Salsa MukLuk 135mm Rear Wheel Adaptor allow a 100mm generator hub to work on the Pugs 135mm offset front fork?
    You read my mind! Shimano has a rear dynohub available in Europe (http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...1.-type-..html). Might be worth trying to import.

    On the other hand, it wouldn't be that hard to make a 135mm dyno for the right company.

  4. #4
    Frt Range, CO
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    Didn't consider the front/rear brake issue. Any work arounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by intheways View Post
    ...Shimano has a rear dynohub available in Europe....
    Is that for electric shifting? Any idea how much power it puts out?

    Another option is a DIY generator using the freehub where the cassette usually mounts.

  5. #5
    will rant for food
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Another option is a DIY generator using the freehub where the cassette usually mounts.
    I'd thought the same - I posted up on the endless-sphere forums about feasibility and unfortunately the thread died in anonymity.

    I think it could be done by the right guy.

  6. #6
    Frt Range, CO
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    DIY generator using rear hub:

    - Make a carrier for the magnets that mounts to the cassette slots and tightens with a standard lockring.
    - JB Weld the freehub so it's a fixie.
    - Wind the wires on the outside of the magnet carrier being clever and using a bearing (haven't figured out this part).

    The wires are stationary, the magnets move...just thinking too hard

  7. #7
    will rant for food
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    You have the right idea - but things get complicated when you start to fret about overvoltage (downhills), capacitors (storing that overvoltage), and the necessary hardware to do that.

    Not that I'm trying to discourage, hell I'd like to do it, but I've also seen my soldering and it is terrible.

  8. #8
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    The Pug fork uses a rear caliper standard. Angle of the dropout entrance likely differs. You could get away with removing the material from the adapter.

  9. #9
    Frt Range, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    ...things get complicated when you start to fret about overvoltage (downhills), capacitors (storing that overvoltage), and the necessary hardware to do that.....
    That's the easy part for me. BTW, the new USB/hub gen chargers take care of it for no additional charge (no pun intended!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    The Pug fork uses a rear caliper standard. Angle of the dropout entrance likely differs. You could get away with removing the material from the adapter.
    It's only 4mm difference, I agree, it should be easy. Too bad the generator hubs have funky axles instead if a standard 9x1mm axle.

    I think it'll be easier to adapt a front hub, I'll start with that route and see where it leads. In the meantime I'm going to ask around work and see if anyone has some good ideas for a DIY generator that mounts to the freehub.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post


    It's only 4mm difference, I agree, it should be easy. Too bad the generator hubs have funky axles instead if a standard 9x1mm axle.
    the schmidt (son) is 9mm. i've used skewers and the bolts provided on my road rig.

    centerlock:
    http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/hub/188

    6bolt:
    http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/hub/4

  11. #11
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    That's true, I forgot that the offset Pugs fork used rear brake dimensions. That would get you closer to being able to use the Mukluk adapter, I guess.
    One thing I might be concerned about is the lack of flat surface area for the adapter to pull down against on the Pugs fork. The Mukluk dropout has a big flat area that the adapter tightens up against. The Pugs fork doesn't have that, and combining that with having it on the front of the bike might cause problems.
    For all the work you are talking about (DIY generator, modifying the adapter, ect), it sounds like it would be easier/cheaper just to get the non offset fork and center drilled rim.

  12. #12
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    Get the axle extended?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  13. #13
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    The real issue with the adapter is a 9mm axle in a 10mm dropout, not good for disc brakes. I'm going to see about a DIY generator, maybe I can adapt an existing unit. Another option is the Shimano rear dyno/disc, I wonder if they every made them?

    I don't want to go with the 100mm fork, issues with wheel removal and having to try and sell un-used parts. I'll cost me ~$235 for fork/rim/spokes. for me, that's worth trying to find an alternative.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by intheways View Post
    You read my mind! Shimano has a rear dynohub available in Europe (http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...1.-type-..html). Might be worth trying to import.
    According to Velospec, that thing only puts out 4v at just over 1W. Looks like it's only intended to power the electronic doo-dads (shifting, suspension and computer controls) on a bike like this...a bike that also has a generator front hub for its lighting system.

    Quote Originally Posted by intheways View Post
    On the other hand, it wouldn't be that hard to make a 135mm dyno for the right company.
    I agree. Let's go that route

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    The real issue with the adapter is a 9mm axle in a 10mm dropout, not good for disc brakes. I'm going to see about a DIY generator, maybe I can adapt an existing unit. Another option is the Shimano rear dyno/disc, I wonder if they every made them?
    The other problem you might run into is that the armature for the dynamo is part of the axle assembly. I'm not sure you'd be able to just substitute a longer axle to fit an existing front hub, even if you could adapt the difference in diameters.

    My money would be on an entirely DIY unit based on the freehub interface. I might suggest a disassembled freehub body or even the Fixxer as a good place to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I don't want to go with the 100mm fork, issues with wheel removal and having to try and sell un-used parts. I'll cost me ~$235 for fork/rim/spokes. for me, that's worth trying to find an alternative.
    Or maybe you could skip the dynohub idea for the fatbike altogether and go with a light that could be used with either a battery or a dynamo, like the Inoled Extreme.

  16. #16
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    First, 1K words:


    And here's dimensioned *.pdf's of all the mounting standards:

    https://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/support/

    Making your own adapter would be best. It does look like the Mukluk relies on the flat surface of the DO for some support, but it could just touch at the flats for the axle and 2 disc tabs (triangulated). This type of adapter doesn't require a longer axle, just a longer QR.

    But - you're trying to use a 100mm OLD hub offset 35mm to the right in place of a 135mm hub that is already offset 35mm to the right. Lacing the wheel to a hub that's offset 70mm from it's centerline may be fun. YMMV Post pics.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  17. #17
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    With Wade's comment about hub flange spacing, I realized that we are thinking about this all wrong.
    If the adapter was located on the drive side, there would be no brake caliper to space over, so the adapter could be much simpler- just an axle extension. This would also put the hub flanges in a better position relative to the fork legs. The non-drive side of the hub would most likely have to be spaced out a few millimeters to compensate for the rear brake spacing of the Pugsley fork. On a standard front hub, this would be easy, but I don't know if it would be on a generator hub.
    Last edited by Andy FitzGibbon; 06-21-2011 at 03:53 PM.

  18. #18
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    What about one of these old-sckool generators? Fatty should have plenty of tire for it to make contact with.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcom View Post
    What about one of these old-sckool generators? Fatty should have plenty of tire for it to make contact with.
    Steer clear. A lot more friction than a hub generator, wears out precious rubber, generally wants a smooth tread to begin with.

    Throw snow/mud/sand into the equation? Yikes.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Steer clear. A lot more friction than a hub generator, wears out precious rubber, generally wants a smooth tread to begin with.

    Throw snow/mud/sand into the equation? Yikes.
    Heh, I definitely didn't think of all that. But the price looked right.

  21. #21
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    Yeah, it looks good until you wear through the sidewall of a $100 tire.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Steer clear. A lot more friction than a hub generator, wears out precious rubber, generally wants a smooth tread to begin with.
    The good ones, like the Dymotec 6, besides being pretty low-friction (and no friction when not in use) use a rubber roller. Much easier on the sidewall. I think the sidewall on the Surly tires would work great, and there's plenty of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Throw snow/mud/sand into the equation? Yikes.
    Yeah, there is that, I completely agree. Once upon a time I ran sidewall generators in the winter for commuting, and it wasn't pretty. They usually didn't make it all the way through a Wisconsin winter. Bottom bracket generators fared even worse.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    ...But - you're trying to use a 100mm OLD hub offset 35mm to the right in place of a 135mm hub that is already offset 35mm to the right. Lacing the wheel to a hub that's offset 70mm from it's centerline may be fun. YMMV Post pics.
    I was thinking about this yesterday on my ride...

    And I was thinking of trying to get a schmidt son to work on my pug. Thinking that instead of offsetting the hub, leave it flush to the brake side. Nothing should be needed to change as my understanding is the difference between front and rear IS disc mounts is the spacing of the tab relative to the dropout face. This is 4 mm more on the front than the rear to accomodate the spokes of the front...

    that means using a 35mm spacer on the drive side would make a dish-less front wheel, with the ability to install my BFL/RD without deflating...

    I can find a 9x1x155 solid (bolt on) axle, but not a nice 9x1x141 for quick release :/

    Thinking of just making a part similar to the pug truing tool that threads onto the axle where the existing axle nut is but extends it 35mm to the right.

    contemplating the options...

    g

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregclimbs View Post
    And I was thinking of trying to get a schmidt son to work on my pug. [...] I can find a 9x1x155 solid (bolt on) axle, but not a nice 9x1x141 for quick release
    You can't replace the axle in a Schmidt because the armature is part of it. You can't even adjust the bearings (see the section: "The bearings cannot be adjusted!" about two-thirds of the way down this page.)

    Quote Originally Posted by gregclimbs View Post
    Thinking of just making a part similar to the pug truing tool that threads onto the axle where the existing axle nut is but extends it 35mm to the right.
    Not likely to be strong enough.

    The 100mm Pugs fork remains the most elegant solution to this whole thing...I mean, you're building a wheel around the dynohub anyway.

  25. #25
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    I just can't understand...
    Do you have a spacer between the hub and the fork?
    What about the disc brakes?

    Thanks.

  26. #26
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    Had the same thoughts as I didn't want to sacrifice the second rear wheel option. To my knowledge there's only the already mentioned Shimano FH-C811 .. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a makeshift one that would potentially have to move you on. I finally went on to having a "classic" single rear wheel bike with the 100 mm fork + a SON 28 for it's the ultimate fire and forget piece. But I know that switching to a dynohub from offset is pricey. I had the luck on planning the built completely in advance .. If you don't want to use it as a rear wheel: Schmidt recently released a 15mm thru-axle version of its 28 .. maybe it's more easy to find an adapter for that one. What for do you need a dynohub? Recharging gadgets? Riding multiple days by nighttime?

    Anyway, I'm curious if anyone actually really needed the backup wheel so far?

  27. #27
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    I used Freespoke and determined that the offset rim combined with a Shimano generator hub made a wheel with side-to-side spoke tension no worse than using a centered rim with a generator hub. So for the price of 32 spokes I was able to use my exisiting offset rim. I purchased a 100mm fork too, total cost ~$120 (I already had a Shimano generator hub).

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