Wide range cassettes for short chainstays- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Wide range cassettes for short chainstays

    Looking at upgrading my a Spawn Savage 1.0 stock cassette to a wider range (currently 7 speed 12-32). Ideally I'd like to go 11-42 (or larger) but am looking to also manage the less than optimal chainline that results from the short chainstays. The stock 12-32 7 speed cassette uses a several spacers to manage this.

    Looks like I can easily go 10 speed XT 11-36 and convert it to 9 speed by remove the 15t and 17t and replace it with a Wolftooth or Oneup 16t cog.

    Sunrace also makes a 10 speed 11-42 (11,13,15,18,21,24,28,32,36,42) but it's not immediately clear which cog to remove without creating a weird jump (only the 11, 13, 15 and 18 are single cogs, the others are on a spider)

    IRD has a 10 speed 11-42t (11,13,15,17,19,21,25,30,36,42) wide range cassette looks like it would work removing the 15t and 17t and replacing it with a 16t. Problem is the cassette is $160-170.

    Anyone used/familiar with other (cheaper) options?

    Note that I looked at 11 speed cassettes but as I understand it the largest cog is concave which makes chainline even worse in that cog. In fact OneUp has an 18t + spacer kit to help minimize this problem (https://www.oneupcomponents.com/prod...et-spacer-1x11). No idea if this would be better than a regular 10 speed wide range.

  2. #2
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    You're right about the 11 speed cassette.

    I can add this about the ten speed cassette on a short chainstay bike... I built my son a 24" wheel Gary Fisher Tyro a few years ago. I ditched the stock wheels and 7 speed drivetrain and made it into a 1x10. I could only get it to shift nine gears. It would either do the 36 and eight others OR the 11 and eight others but never all of them so I locked out the 11. He never missed it.
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  3. #3
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    It's worth considering how long they will be on the 20"

    My 5 yr old went from just fitting his 20" to just fitting his 24" in 9 months...
    You could consider just fitting an expander ring maybe ???

  4. #4
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    We ending doing a 1x11 setup on my son's 24" Trek. I may start a thread to show what's involved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    11-36 on Spawn Savage

    Stock 1x10, 11-36 works fine on a Savage:
    Wide range cassettes for short chainstays-savage_13p375_csl_10spd.jpg

    Chainstay length measures roughly 13-3/8".

    On my son's 20" Prodigy, he's running 1x11, 10-42 w/o issues:
    Wide range cassettes for short chainstays-prodigy_13p5_csl_11spd.jpg

    CS on that bike measures 13-1/2", only slightly longer, so 10-42 might also work with the Savage.

  6. #6
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    I'm gonna resurrect this old thread instead of starting a new one. I just grabbed a used Spawn Savage 1.0 for my daughter and want to change out the rear derailleur and/or most of the drive train. I have three bikes and I try to keep everything the same so parts can be swapped and it's easier to service parts I know well. That said, I have 2 bikes with 1x11 SRAM X01 drive trains and a DH bike with 1x7 SRAM X01. From this thread and others, it seems like 11 speed is not going to work well and pushing the limits of the 20" frame. My thought is to do a 7 speed DH setup. This would allow me to run the same chain on her bike as all of mine and the shifter and derailleur would be the same as my DH bike. Since it's a kids bike and she will out grow it soon, I'm hoping to find a lightly used SRAM GX setup. The trouble I see with this setup is it doesn't give much of a range of gears, especially in the low end. I plan on swapping out the front chainring with a narrow wide, would moving to a 30T instead of the 32 that is on there now be enough to help that? Any other thoughts anyone has on this project?

    Thanks!

  7. #7
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    I recently did my best to make a cheap fat bike rideable for my nephew. Making it lighter wasn't realistic although I was able to lighten it slightly.

    The biggest improvement came from converting the 7 speed cartridge to nine and getting Trailcraft cranks which allowed me to use a 64 bcd Wolftooth 26 tooth ring. Remember, this is for a fat bike so it needed gearing like that. Trailcraft has direct mount cranks and 104-64 cranks. Should make mounting a 30 or even 28 tooth ring easy.

    Here's the link to the thread where I modified the bike.
    https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/oh...e-1094172.html
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  8. #8
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    Since the cranks on the Savage are 104 BCD which limits you to a 30t chainring, the lowest gear combo you'll get with a DH cassette is 30x25 which isn't particularly low.

    Didn't the S1 come with 11-32 8sp? Seems a bit silly to change out the drivetrain and get less range in the end. Sunrace makes a 11-34 8sp cassette: SunRace | CSM66

    If you shopped around a bit you could probably pick up a 10sp Deore or GX RD/shifter/11-36 cassette/chain set for under $150. Hell, I'm pretty sure I have in my parts bin a 10sp SLX RD (non-clutch), shifter, 11-36 cassette and chain that I'd give you for shipping. PM me if interested.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergkevin View Post
    I'm gonna resurrect this old thread instead of starting a new one. I just grabbed a used Spawn Savage 1.0 for my daughter and want to change out the rear derailleur and/or most of the drive train. I have three bikes and I try to keep everything the same so parts can be swapped and it's easier to service parts I know well. That said, I have 2 bikes with 1x11 SRAM X01 drive trains and a DH bike with 1x7 SRAM X01. From this thread and others, it seems like 11 speed is not going to work well and pushing the limits of the 20" frame. My thought is to do a 7 speed DH setup. This would allow me to run the same chain on her bike as all of mine and the shifter and derailleur would be the same as my DH bike. Since it's a kids bike and she will out grow it soon, I'm hoping to find a lightly used SRAM GX setup. The trouble I see with this setup is it doesn't give much of a range of gears, especially in the low end. I plan on swapping out the front chainring with a narrow wide, would moving to a 30T instead of the 32 that is on there now be enough to help that? Any other thoughts anyone has on this project?

    Thanks!
    Iím the same keeping maximum cross compatibility but is it worth a new hub or wheel?
    You can get a complete Deore 10sp new for 1/2 the price of a SRAM DH cassette then youíd need to chuck in new hub and spokes (and chain device) and you are looking at $$$ for a setup unlikely to work well.

    Plus you can buy 2x10sp chains for the price of an 11 sp so just buy 2.

  10. #10
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    I donít think I need to change the wheel or hub. (Iím pretty new to this stuff so...) The current cassette has spacers to fit on what appears to be a 11sp compatible hub. Itís about 34.8mm and fits my Shimano 11-47. (The 47 looked pretty silly on there. )

    The current chain ring is 32 and the cog set is 12-32. I found a GX drive train on eBay for $100 (shifter, derailleur and cassette) which seems reasonable for a much better derailleur and shifter. I could probably just leave the 12-32 on there instead of using the 11-25 from the DH set? Or take the 32 and swap it with the 25? But that probably wouldnít work because the DH train uses an 11 speed chain? Iím guessing the cogs on the old 7 speed are thicker than the 11s as well as being further apart.

    I watched the Park Tools video on driveline a while back and expect Iím messing with that stuff too. Hopefully not too much.

    Final note is I have a set of SRAM Guide RS brakes in the bin that I plan on putting on to replace the mechanical discs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergkevin View Post
    I donít think I need to change the wheel or hub. (Iím pretty new to this stuff so...) The current cassette has spacers to fit on what appears to be a 11sp compatible hub. Itís about 34.8mm and fits my Shimano 11-47. (The 47 looked pretty silly on there. )

    The current chain ring is 32 and the cog set is 12-32. I found a GX drive train on eBay for $100 (shifter, derailleur and cassette) which seems reasonable for a much better derailleur and shifter. I could probably just leave the 12-32 on there instead of using the 11-25 from the DH set? Or take the 32 and swap it with the 25? But that probably wouldnít work because the DH train uses an 11 speed chain? Iím guessing the cogs on the old 7 speed are thicker than the 11s as well as being further apart.

    I watched the Park Tools video on driveline a while back and expect Iím messing with that stuff too. Hopefully not too much.

    Final note is I have a set of SRAM Guide RS brakes in the bin that I plan on putting on to replace the mechanical discs.
    Shimano 11sp is the std Shimano hub ... the 7sp DH is XD hub.
    The smallest Shimano 11sp (MTB) is 40T.
    You can get a SRAM NX in Shimano hub but I think itís 42... or you can fit 10sp either and just keep a extra chain. All 10 sp chains are the same width as are 11sp
    The 7sp DH is 11 speed chain. Because itís 11sp spacing.

    You can mix and match chains and cassettes across brands but rear mech and shifter both need to be same speed and brand but not same as cassette or chain. (Shimano and sram use different pull ratios)

    I use mostly SRAM chains on Shimano.

  12. #12
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    I ended up putting a 11-40 10 speed with a Zee derailleur (freeride version) on the Savage. I haven't been able to tune it so it shifts perfectly across the cassette, however. Plan now is to put an 11-36 10 speed reduced to 9 speed with a 16t cog (replacing the 15t and 17t) - just haven't got around to doing it.

    If you wanted more low end range you could also replace the crankset with the direct mount trailcraft

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    Shimano 11sp is the std Shimano hub ... the 7sp DH is XD hub.
    The smallest Shimano 11sp (MTB) is 40T.
    You can get a SRAM NX in Shimano hub but I think itís 42... or you can fit 10sp either and just keep a extra chain. All 10 sp chains are the same width as are 11sp
    The 7sp DH is 11 speed chain. Because itís 11sp spacing.

    You can mix and match chains and cassettes across brands but rear mech and shifter both need to be same speed and brand but not same as cassette or chain. (Shimano and sram use different pull ratios)

    I use mostly SRAM chains on Shimano.

    To the op: You can use the SRAM DH shifter and der and make your own cassette out of a cheap shimano or sunrace. It's not as light but buy the cheapest 11sp cassette that has the cogs you want. Take it apart (you make have to grind rivets but many have screws) and then install spacers behind the cassette.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown View Post
    To the op: You can use the SRAM DH shifter and der and make your own cassette out of a cheap shimano or sunrace. It's not as light but buy the cheapest 11sp cassette that has the cogs you want. Take it apart (you make have to grind rivets but many have screws) and then install spacers behind the cassette.
    I like this idea. Do you know what spacers I need per cog removed? So far in my research Iíve seen some need for 1.85mm spacers and some for 1mm.

    Thanks!

  15. #15
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    I ordered a DMR single speed spacer kit and will hope that that has the right combination that I will need.

  16. #16
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    Youíll need two types of spacers Spacers between cogs depends on the cog and specific cassette
    If you take your Shimano cassette it has 2 spiders and some loose cogs. There are spacers between but on some cogs these are built into or onto the cog and others not.

    You can buy loose cogs (itís not that economic but they can be bought separately). These all need to be the correct width/speed... but the maximum size is limited because the bigger ones tend to sit on spiders.

    Which are loose changes ..at least the older Shimano 10sp the XT you have loose 14 and 16 for example but not on the SLX of the same range. (Back then I was adding expander rings so this went on the inside of the hub and you could drop the 11 and use a 12T lockring or buy a 15and remove the 14 and 16)



    Then you need to fill out the hub so your chosen speed cogs sit on the correct or close to the chain line. This isnít less sensitive as you are just shifting the whole cassette on the freehub which can take different width (speed) freehubs with spacers anyway. Youíll probably find a bit of experimentation on this good so the single speed kit will come in on this.

  17. #17
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    So I installed the 7spd DH set with a 30t front ring and it seems to shift fairly well after setting it up. The middle gears, ironically, have some noises but they spin fine.

    The SRAM cogs fit on the standard (Shimano) driver. The cage on the derailleur seems a little long, but that probably canít be helped much with 20Ē wheels.


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