New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT

    There was lots of talk about Manitou releasing a new product today over in the suspension forum -- not what most people were expecting, but the new product is a 20" / 24" kid's specific fork tuned for kids.

    "Manitou Machete JUNIT; a youth-sized 20” and 24” suspension fork. Finally, young riders have the option for either a 20” or 24” wheel to enjoy the lightweight, high-quality chassis. JUNIT Machete features a 1.5” tapered alloy steerer tube and a forged hollow crown. Thirty-two millimeter, 6000 series black anodized stanchions are completed with Manitou’s signature Reverse Arch. Lightweight rider benefit from the easily adjustable Expert Air spring system, adjustable rebound, and our proven ABS+ damper."

    More details:

    $449 retail
    Hexlock SL2 Through Axle

    20"
    1610g
    Crown to Axle
    410mm (100mm travel) 430mm (120mm Travel)

    24"
    1720g
    Crown to Axle
    455 (100mm Travel), 500 (145mm Travel)

    https://manitoumtb.com/product/machete-junit/

    From a Google search, it looks like Hayes may have a direct to consumer storefront coming soon -- from the listing description that Google grabbed, it sounds like these may even be boost spacing:
    "Machete J-Unit 24" BOOST, 100mm Travel, Matte Black, 1.5 Taper. Regular price: $449.99. Sale price: $449.99 Sale. Machete J-Unit 20" BOOST, 100mm Travel..."
    https://www.google.com/search?q=machete+junit+fork

    Really curious to see what bikes start shipping with these, since pretty much no one at present is shipping 20" bikes with frames designed for tapered headsets.

  2. #2
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    That seems like a lot of travel for a kid! The Brood and Suntour have 80mm. The steerer tube is also interesting, like you said, the others out there are 1 1/8” straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergkevin View Post
    That seems like a lot of travel for a kid! The Brood and Suntour have 80mm. The steerer tube is also interesting, like you said, the others out there are 1 1/8” straight.
    100 of travel, if properly tuned is really easy for a kid to go through. There are a lot of kids shredding and sending it these days. Those small wheels just run into EVERYTHING. A 6" rock on a chute doesn't care if its a kid or not . Nice to have suspension that will soak it up, just like its nice to have more travel on a 27.5 instead of a 29er. Also, why not? These forks, aside from a 1,000$ stepcast, are all about the same chassis/weight and just have a longer airspring. Plus lightweight kids don't cause suspension bob/inefficiency as much as a 180lb adult.

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    Also, the Commencal Clash has been spec'd with these forks for a few months .

    https://www.commencalusa.com/kids-c102x3534545


    Looking into this, the Machete fork by default isn't super amazing, but like most of Manitou Forks...there are different versions that have MUCH better tech as you jump up. Example: Manitou Circus Sport sucks (worth less than 100$)...Manitou Circus Expert Pro is at Crankworks stuff.

    The good news here is that it seems that no only the Airspring but the damper are their much better tech. VERY stoked for this fork. Really want to see additional specs (weight) as well.

  5. #5
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    The air spring is basically Dorado air with a more economical materials used to help lower the cost. This allows for the fork To be lowered to any travel number you want.

    The damper has also been tuned specifically for light weight riders in mind, so there is no compromise in performance.the kids will get the same feel as adults do on their Manitou products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The air spring is basically Dorado air with a more economical materials used to help lower the cost. This allows for the fork To be lowered to any travel number you want.

    The damper has also been tuned specifically for light weight riders in mind, so there is no compromise in performance.the kids will get the same feel as adults do on their Manitou products.
    Do you have any details or are affiliated with Manitou? This fork sounds awesome and we've needed a big suspension company to get on board with real kids suspension. I'm interested in a lot more details.

    Also, do you know if they are doing this same thing with the McCloud shock and making a kids version?

  7. #7
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    LOL, 410 A-C on a 20" bike
    I have several 26" forks with less -C than that.
    *** --- *** --- ***

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    Promo Video from their Facebook. I think there may be a few familiar guys in there

    https://www.facebook.com/ManitouMTB/...1098368595498/

    Man, that drop the little guy does is pretty legit!

    Notice how the kid on the Spawn bike rolls through the rocky stuff. You can see the fork eating it up. That's what a properly tuned fork looks like verses a Rockyshox with a ladies tune.

    Shorty brake levers on Dominions is pretty ridiculously nice too. Man, I wonder what the price would be tho...


    Guessing the wheels are durable but far from light.

    24" 145mm Fork is 1720g (3.8lbs)...a tad lighter than a Fox 34 of similar travel. Not bad!

    Fwiw a Rockshox Recon 26" 100mm (spec'd on many 24" bikes including Ripcord and Norco Fluid FS 24") is a whopping 2166g (4.8lbs) ! And that forks sucks big time too. This is a sweet option for the 20/24in crowd. Especially 24.

    Also, the TrailCraft Maxwell (super light XC bike) uses a 100mm RST Snyper Fork. Its weighed at 1870g (4.17lbs) and this is still a fair bit lighter at 1720g. Impressive fork! I was afraid it was going to be a tank. It also dispels the idea that extra travel equals extra weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne View Post
    LOL, 410 A-C on a 20" bike
    I have several 26" forks with less -C than that.
    I think its lower than Spawns Brood 100mm fork by about 15mm. I've seen that Spawn fork live on the 20" Rokusutta and it actually fits kids really nicely and the stack didn't seem too high. Thats the same fork on Lil Shredder/Trailcraft/Prevelo too..so being shorter than it is a good benchmark. Also these FS kids bikes are designed to account for it usually anyways and have a shorter headtube length to keep the stack down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Do you have any details or are affiliated with Manitou? This fork sounds awesome and we've needed a big suspension company to get on board with real kids suspension. I'm interested in a lot more details.

    Also, do you know if they are doing this same thing with the McCloud shock and making a kids version?
    I do not work for Manitou, but do help a little on a few projects. Didn't help with this one, but know a little about it.

    The damper tuning on the McLeod can be made kids specific for OEM's pretty easily. Not sure if it's something they are working on for aftermarket sales.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Do you have any details or are affiliated with Manitou? This fork sounds awesome and we've needed a big suspension company to get on board with real kids suspension. I'm interested in a lot more details.

    Also, do you know if they are doing this same thing with the McCloud shock and making a kids version?
    I'm a distributor, I've put the full Junit range up here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes/junit-range

    Note prices are in $NZD and include NZ sales tax. $USD is about 55% of that.

    They do have a kids specific McLeod out for OEM (Nino). Commencal is running one. But if you need one aftermarket they can be tuned easily for kids.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne View Post
    LOL, 410 A-C on a 20" bike
    I have several 26" forks with less -C than that.
    An 80mm fork for a 26" bike is 430mm UNDER the crown. 460mm is common.
    To get under 410 on a 26" you have less than 30mm suspension travel.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I'm a distributor, I've put the full Junit range up here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes/junit-range

    Note prices are in $NZD and include NZ sales tax. $USD is about 55% of that.

    They do have a kids specific McLeod out for OEM (Nino). Commencal is running one. But if you need one aftermarket they can be tuned easily for kids.
    Do you know of any other companies spec'ing the Junit line or part of it? Seems like publicly only Commencal Clash line has the suspension (wish it had the brakes and wheels). Wondering who else is doing this, we need a new 24in bike asap!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Do you know of any other companies spec'ing the Junit line or part of it? Seems like publicly only Commencal Clash line has the suspension (wish it had the brakes and wheels). Wondering who else is doing this, we need a new 24in bike asap!
    Commencal is the only one I know of. There were companies gearing up for it at Taipei show in October, but I don't know where they're at with release.

    The Commencal bike photos were photoshopped mock ups as they didn't have actual Junit gear for the catalog photos.

    New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-19clash20sd_2000.jpg
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Commencal is the only one I know of. There were companies gearing up for it at Taipei show in October, but I don't know where they're at with release.

    The Commencal bike photos were photoshopped mock ups as they didn't have actual Junit gear for the catalog photos.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Kona is specing a 24" machete as well, though they didn't call it a j-unit

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Kona is specing a 24" machete as well, though they didn't call it a j-unit
    Kona has the 26" machete comp I think for their process kids bike. I don't think it's the same thing as the Junit fork

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Kona is specing a 24" machete as well, though they didn't call it a j-unit
    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Kona has the 26" machete comp I think for their process kids bike. I don't think it's the same thing as the Junit fork
    I know currently they have a 24" bike which is intended to be upsized with 26" wheels as kids grow. A local shop has them already (2019 models).
    But I don't know if that's the same one you guys are talking about.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    I was talking about the Process 100mm FS bike they have on their website.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    I was talking about the Process 100mm FS bike they have on their website.
    This one looks like a standard Machete:
    New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-process_24.jpg
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    This one looks like a standard Machete:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    From what I heard through the grapevine, Kona was one of the OEM's interested. I guess we will see what happens

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimTucker View Post
    From a Google search, it looks like Hayes may have a direct to consumer storefront coming soon -- from the listing description that Google grabbed, it sounds like these may even be boost spacing:
    "Machete J-Unit 24" BOOST, 100mm Travel, Matte Black, 1.5 Taper. Regular price: $449.99. Sale price: $449.99 Sale. Machete J-Unit 20" BOOST, 100mm Travel..."
    https://www.google.com/search?q=machete+junit+fork

    Really curious to see what bikes start shipping with these, since pretty much no one at present is shipping 20" bikes with frames designed for tapered headsets.
    My son is on the JUNIT team. We were at Sea Otter for the launch. Hayes marketing director told me a D2C retail site is coming soon. From what I was also told, pre-public interest from OEMs has been strong. Expect to see a lot of new bikes with JUNIT parts in the next year or so. Retail prices are pretty good for what you get.

    We've been demoing stuff for a few weeks now. It's all 100% legit and Hayes is super committed to the product line. They even made each kid a custom set of brake levers with their names laser-etched onto them where the Dominion logo usually goes. So cool.

    This all happened because their product management director found himself in their machine shop one day custom-fabbing parts for his son's bike and thought "This is ridiculous. Why don't we make this stuff?" Took the idea to the CEO and here we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergkevin View Post
    That seems like a lot of travel for a kid! The Brood and Suntour have 80mm. The steerer tube is also interesting, like you said, the others out there are 1 1/8” straight.
    RE: Travel--The poor rollover of little wheels really benefits from more travel. Also, look closely at the pics on the site, then look at pics of a Brood or Suntour fork. The Manitou lowers are several inches shorter than those forks. The stanchion length/lower length ratio is crazy.

    Within a year or two most kids bikes are going to be using tapered head tubes...because these forks exist. A bit of a bummer for anyone looking to buy aftermarket for an existing bike, but a lot of existing bikes use a 44mm headtube and you can use a tapered fork in those by switching to an EC44 lower headset cup.

    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Man, that drop the little guy does is pretty legit!


    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Guessing the wheels are durable but far from light.
    1651g for a 20" wheelset, 1799g for 24".

    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Thats the same fork on Lil Shredder/Trailcraft/Prevelo too..so being shorter than it is a good benchmark.
    Propain uses that fork, too. I ended up talking with John from Flow Bikes at Sea Otter. Apparently the company that made that fork went out of business recently. He was really curious who may have bought the rights to it. Though, Manitou probably just made that irrelevant.

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    I'm looking forward to the move to boost for rear wheels - I'd imagine that it improves the chainline quite a bit on a 20" and might even make a 16" with a decently wide range possible (as long as it doesn't increase the q factor too much).

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    Propain uses that fork, too. I ended up talking with John from Flow Bikes at Sea Otter. Apparently the company that made that fork went out of business recently. He was really curious who may have bought the rights to it. Though, Manitou probably just made that irrelevant.

    $449 retail
    Hexlock SL2 Through Axle
    20"
    1610g
    Crown to Axle
    410mm (100mm travel) 430mm (120mm Travel)

    $449 retail
    Hexlock SL2 Through Axle
    24"
    1720g
    Crown to Axle
    455 (100mm Travel), 500 (145mm Travel)
    IIRC the Brood/Propain forks were 100-200 grams lighter in each model, so no weight awards on this one. Suntour is within 50 grams of both or so and 40% less retail $$$ for shorter travel. But great to have more options, especially in the much needed longer travel lengths!

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    This is exciting. My oldest will be ready to move to 24" at the end of the year. Only problem is she will be riding everything from xc races to am trails and the occasional lift park, then her little sister will be doing the same on it when it gets handed down. Finding the right bike will be difficult.

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    Be looking at the 24 inch option for Samuels NSclash Jr. based on a 100mm 26 inch fork so be able to have more travel for the same A2C.

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    Sorry to take this a little off topic: is there a light enough negative coil spring available to re-purpose a 2012 minute pro for a kids bike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    Sorry to take this a little off topic: is there a light enough negative coil spring available to re-purpose a 2012 minute pro for a kids bike?
    2012 Minute Pro will be MARS Air. So they don't have a big negative spring (just top-out) and run a compression coil spring in series.

    The MARS spring ride kits are out of production, I've got sizes up in this category but I'm all out of soft and extra soft: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou.../ride-kits?p=1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    2012 Minute Pro will be MARS Air. So they don't have a big negative spring (just top-out) and run a compression coil spring in series.

    The MARS spring ride kits are out of production, I've got sizes up in this category but I'm all out of soft and extra soft: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou.../ride-kits?p=1
    Assuming I can't get my hands on a light or extra light ride kit (and from searching it doesn't look like it) is there any way of modifying the fork to work decently for a kid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    Assuming I can't get my hands on a light or extra light ride kit (and from searching it doesn't look like it) is there any way of modifying the fork to work decently for a kid?
    How light is the kid?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    How light is the kid?
    about 35 kg

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    So am I out of luck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    about 35 kg
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/simple-...hockcraft.html

    This is a simple calculator, gives you about 23 lb/in fork spring rate. That's going to be difficult.

    Which is why Manitou have gone for air positive and negative with the Junit forks.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Hi, I just bought the Commencal Clash 20. It came , as you know, with the Machete Junit 20 fork. It came without a proper setup manual, only a sticker on the fork leg with psi suggestions. The Commencal dealer told me that I should remove the positive air chamber cap to adjust the pressure. Well there´s no way to repressurize the chamber. When I put air in the negative chamber the fork shortens the travel.
    Can you help me please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDO View Post
    Hi, I just bought the Commencal Clash 20. It came , as you know, with the Machete Junit 20 fork. It came without a proper setup manual, only a sticker on the fork leg with psi suggestions. The Commencal dealer told me that I should remove the positive air chamber cap to adjust the pressure. Well there´s no way to repressurize the chamber. When I put air in the negative chamber the fork shortens the travel.
    Can you help me please?
    Both Chambers fill at the same time. Pump it up, then pull up on the fork to extend it as you remove the pump. Once the pump is removed, it will stay fully extended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDO View Post
    Hi, I just bought the Commencal Clash 20. It came , as you know, with the Machete Junit 20 fork. It came without a proper setup manual, only a sticker on the fork leg with psi suggestions. The Commencal dealer told me that I should remove the positive air chamber cap to adjust the pressure. Well there´s no way to repressurize the chamber. When I put air in the negative chamber the fork shortens the travel.
    Can you help me please?
    LOL, I had the exact same issue on our Clash 24". They fill at the same time and auto-equalize, BUT ONLY if you really screw on the shock pump...not just until it reads the pressure. Otherwise you are only filling the positive (or is it neg?)chamber. You just screw on the pump more and it'll snap back into place without having to pull on anything etc.

    If that doesn't work, try a different shock pump.

    FWIW I'm following the setup of a few others Dads with the same 145mm 24" fork and it's a fair amount lower than the sticker. Rebound is wide open (I think) and we are at 30 psi for my 62lb kid. Two clicks of compression. He isn't bottoming out on bigger hits. The midstroke support is pretty damn good!

    Its gotten even nicer as its broken in. The fork is incredible. Its very similar to the Debonair Pike we have in the garage, tho with more midstroke to it. The kids tune tho...wow, what an incredible difference it makes. Shock is nothing short of incredible too.

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    New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-31c31575-bbb3-4bba-9903-4c3c05fd57c8.jpg

    New bike day for Mariana! Clash 20.

    I would try to set the fork properly tomorrow. Thanks for the help guys. The bike is stunning in person. She loved the bike, worth every penny. She’s so into the Enduro thing! The bike was very well engineered for a kid, with a high leverage ratio, good geo and parts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-3f460f24-d37c-4230-9461-aa34d427925b.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    LOL, I had the exact same issue on our Clash 24". They fill at the same time and auto-equalize, BUT ONLY if you really screw on the shock pump...not just until it reads the pressure. Otherwise you are only filling the positive (or is it neg?)chamber. You just screw on the pump more and it'll snap back into place without having to pull on anything etc.

    If that doesn't work, try a different shock pump.

    FWIW I'm following the setup of a few others Dads with the same 145mm 24" fork and it's a fair amount lower than the sticker. Rebound is wide open (I think) and we are at 30 psi for my 62lb kid. Two clicks of compression. He isn't bottoming out on bigger hits. The midstroke support is pretty damn good!

    Its gotten even nicer as its broken in. The fork is incredible. Its very similar to the Debonair Pike we have in the garage, tho with more midstroke to it. The kids tune tho...wow, what an incredible difference it makes. Shock is nothing short of incredible too.
    It worked! Try a different pump and worked first try. Using very very low pressure, around 10 to 15 psi. It’s hard to read the dial. Going to wait for the brake in so maybe it gets softer and I can raise the pressure a bit.

    Thank you for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDO View Post
    It worked! Try a different pump and worked first try. Using very very low pressure, around 10 to 15 psi. It’s hard to read the dial. Going to wait for the brake in so maybe it gets softer and I can raise the pressure a bit.

    Thank you for your help.
    For everyone's reference, the reason you are having an issue is because the poppet inside the valve is not protruding quite far enough. Spec is 1.3 mm. It can be adjusted with a 3 mm allen wrench (IIRC) down the center of the air piston.

    Sometimes the fork will sag down and it's travel from the weight of the wheel or the bike while the pump is connected, so it's always best to pull up on the wheel and make sure it's fully extended before removing the pump. You can use this method to fudge travel numbers or negative spring volume as well by removing the pump while the fork is slightly compressed.

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    First thing to try is always a different pump. Some just don't depress the centre rod correctly.

    If different pumps don't help, check the rod protrusion as Mullen said.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  40. #40
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    Questions:

    1. Has anyone seen/tried a JUNIT 24 145 on a 24 Rokkusuta? I think axle to crown on the X fusion velvet at 140 ~ 505-510mm (self measured). JUNIT at 145 seems ~ 500mm. So might change the head angle a touch (steepen), but probably not a big deal.



    2. Does anyone know where to get a Nino tuned Macleod? Any other good options for 200 x 51mm (I think that is the size)

    Any other good options for kids tuned rear shock on a Rokkusuta 24? The X fusion on there is OK, but getting it rebuilt/kids tune is half the cost of a new shock so considering a new shock while at it.

  41. #41
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    Setting Air Preasure

    I just picked up a 20" Commencal with this fork. The air valve on the bottom of the fork has a red pin sticking out that I can't push in to release air. Are you supposed to remove the top cap to set the pressure? I'm afraid of removing the top cap while the fork is under pressure.
    New 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-2019-09-01-07.50.12.jpgNew 20" / 24" suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-2019-09-01-07.50.49.jpg

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by neosomatic View Post
    I just picked up a 20" Commencal with this fork. The air valve on the bottom of the fork has a red pin sticking out that I can't push in to release air. Are you supposed to remove the top cap to set the pressure? I'm afraid of removing the top cap while the fork is under pressure.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The red pin gets pushed in when the pump is attached. It opens the port to the negative air chamber.

    You should be able to press it, though it takes more force than a normal shrader valve core. If you can't, just attach a pump and use the pump bleed to remove air.

  43. #43
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    That worked! So odd you can press on the red valve to let the air out. Worked fine after really tightening up the shock pump.

    Thanks!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by neosomatic View Post
    That worked! So odd you can press on the red valve to let the air out. Worked fine after really tightening up the shock pump.

    Thanks!
    Excellent. Connecting the pump to depress that rod also connects positive/negative. But if the pump isn't screwed all the way on it can sometimes just adjust the negative chamber.

    So if the fork feels funny, check it again with it screwed all the way on. Also check the fork is at full extension before removing the pump. Because that can be used as travel adjust.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  45. #45
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    Anyone know if there any other bikes using the JUnit fork besides Commencal's?

  46. #46
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    If what I was told in March is still correct there should be several more companies using the JUNIT stuff next year. Not sure if I'm allowed to say which ones.

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    It looks like Norco is spec'ing a little of this on their Fluid 20"/24".

    I don't understand why they are skipping the McLeod Shock with the Nino tune tho? Seems like a big miss. I think I'm more impressed with the kids shock than the fork (both are spectacular). For 2499$ MSRP that is a big miss to just go with an adult XFusion shock. Bummer. Duroc wheels look sweet tho!

    https://bikerumor.com/2019/08/23/cra...rent-hardtail/

  48. #48
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    Interesting on that Norco Fluid 20 -- hadn't seen the Schwalbe Smart Sam 20x2.35" tires before. They're showing as "New" on the Schwalbe site and 500g / $21, although still only available in Wire Bead:
    https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/2406

    Would be interesting to compare to some of the other 20+ tires with actual widths in the 2.3-2.4 range.

  49. #49
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    Dang. Fully redesigned frame, JUNIT fork and wheels, Maxxis rubber, SDG cockpit and saddle, and a stock dropper for $2500 is pretty legit. No mention of brakes, though. Definitely interesting they went with the X-Fusion shock. Might have been necessary to hit their target price with all the other goodies, or maybe there was an issue with the size they needed. Also interesting that they went with the SDG cockpit over JUNIT.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    Dang. Fully redesigned frame, JUNIT fork and wheels, Maxxis rubber, SDG cockpit and saddle, and a stock dropper for $2500 is pretty legit. No mention of brakes, though. Definitely interesting they went with the X-Fusion shock. Might have been necessary to hit their target price with all the other goodies, or maybe there was an issue with the size they needed. Also interesting that they went with the SDG cockpit over JUNIT.
    That's true. A 140/130 bike is pretty sweet. Plus these will be in bike shops too. My kid sat on that dropper on their 2019 model and it worked well. Brakes might be nice, cheap shimano too. Starting to see more of those.

    Dan, what do you think of the Junit bars so far? Your kid liking the smaller grips?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Dan, what do you think of the Junit bars so far? Your kid liking the smaller grips?
    He likes them. We just got some new mid-size grips to try out that are pretty sweet. They should be available soon.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    He likes them. We just got some new mid-size grips to try out that are pretty sweet. They should be available soon.
    Sweet! Yeah I can see how a slightly larger grip would be better for my 7yr and the existing skinny ones would be ideal for the 5yro.

    iirc I think SDG grips are kind of a "mid-size" and pretty nice.

    Fwiw my kid says that he likes them...but he is also next to use-less when it comes to bike feedback. Everything is "fine".

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    He likes them. We just got some new mid-size grips to try out that are pretty sweet. They should be available soon.
    Excellent. I've got a 20" here that would be great with those bars, but it runs a shimano revo-shifter (gripshift) and I can't see how that would fit nicely.

    I could probably pull a 7sp trigger from the archives.......
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Excellent. I've got a 20" here that would be great with those bars, but it runs a shimano revo-shifter (gripshift) and I can't see how that would fit nicely.

    I could probably pull a 7sp trigger from the archives.......
    Grip shift won't fit at all on the Junit bars -- I was curious and tried.

    Not enough clamping area to support both the twist shifter and brakes.

    In theory I suppose you could do it if you used a rear coaster brake...

  55. #55
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    Wonderful that a major manufacturer has finally come around to this market for all us dads but what were Manitou thinking with these forks being tapered? CRC/Wiggle have them in the catalogue but I can't see them selling any to the aftermarket as there are virtually no 20" specific frames with a 44mm+ head tube and very few 24".

    It's fine to push OEMs towards this standard but I can't help feeling they're missing out on a bucket load of aftermarket sales by not keeping it simple. It's not like a <35kg kid needs the added stiffness given by the tapered steerer so why limit the market?

  56. #56
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    The forks don't need 110 spacing either and most existing kid's bikes probably don't have convertible hubs. But, like tapered steerers 110 is the current standard and likely will be for a while. My guess is that like adult bikes and parts, potential profits in the OEM sector probably dwarf aftermarket sales. In March, before JUNIT was even public, reliable sources at Hayes/Manitou told me six bike companies were already redesigning their kid lineups from the ground up around the JUNIT stuff. There's a good chance that number has grown. Odds are they looked at what it would cost them to produce a run of forks with straight steerers and how many they were likely to sell, and it just didn't pencil out.

  57. #57
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    Scott Roxster fits the Junit 20". It needed a modified external headset cup as the 44mm head tube machining wasn't quite deep enough.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B37_N1RH..._web_copy_link
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Scott Roxster fits the Junit 20". It needed a modified external headset cup as the 44mm head tube machining wasn't quite deep enough.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B37_N1RH..._web_copy_link
    More details on this one.

    I ended up setting the fork to ~65mm travel which raised the front end 50mm over the original rigid fork. 10mm of that is the external head-set cup.
    The mud-guard clears the 2.6" tyre but officially it's 2.4" max with the mudguard. Heaps of clearance to the crown at full compression.

    Looks good and feels great. Currently running 30psi, we'll see how it goes.

    New 20&quot; / 24&quot; suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-img_20191026_115103.jpg
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    More details on this one.

    I ended up setting the fork to ~65mm travel which raised the front end 50mm over the original rigid fork. 10mm of that is the external head-set cup.
    The mud-guard clears the 2.6" tyre but officially it's 2.4" max with the mudguard. Heaps of clearance to the crown at full compression.

    Looks good and feels great. Currently running 30psi, we'll see how it goes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hey mate,

    Sorry to thread jack, but I'm currently planning to build a 24" DJ style frame for my partner, she is 155cm (and light) and wants a sort of BMX-DJ hybrid for jumping.
    I have been designing it around a 80mm manitou circus (obvi a 26" fork) but the Junit seems like it would make for a more optimised ride.

    Any thoughts?

    If it is more appropriate, I can PM you.

    BTW, I'm the guy that just ordered a couple of sets of SKF 35mm seals

    -Fil

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzz_muffin View Post
    Hey mate,

    Sorry to thread jack, but I'm currently planning to build a 24" DJ style frame for my partner, she is 155cm (and light) and wants a sort of BMX-DJ hybrid for jumping.
    I have been designing it around a 80mm manitou circus (obvi a 26" fork) but the Junit seems like it would make for a more optimised ride.

    Any thoughts?

    If it is more appropriate, I can PM you.

    BTW, I'm the guy that just ordered a couple of sets of SKF 35mm seals

    -Fil
    Definitely go for the Machete over the Circus Expert. Reason is the air spring. The Circus Expert is sprung to handle some serious jumping and coil spring availability is limited.

    Circus Pro is air sprung and will do what you need, it is a step up in price.

    Machete J-unit vs Circus Pro is the same type of air spring and damper. Both can be tuned well for lighter and heavier riders.

    Flick me an email or call if you want to discuss more.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  61. #61
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    Cheers for the info mate! will redesign for the machete, the air spring tune-ability will be crucial.

  62. #62
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    Hi I have just picked up a new Manitou Machete J-Unit Forks 20" in 120MM for £75 from evil bay from a proper UK bike shop. Perhaps proves the aftermarket challenge of selling tapered and boost on a babies bike My challenge though is more obvious...as I have no bike or wheel to fit on this fork .... my lad in Q getting the bike is only 4.5 so I have about half a year. I need to get these forks lowered to 100m at least ...says on back of it it can be... anyone have the part number for a spacer or are they generic??

    . Also as per above on the Roxter can I add a load of spacers and drop this to 80mm and stick this on a normal kids 20" mtb hardtail... advise welcome....assume possible looking at the sweet bike above if so will look out for a second hand similar model (cujo maybe with a low BB that can be raised) or something else as a donor that needs the parts ripped off it.

    Sunringle duroc is the only 20" wheel I see prebuilt for this 15mm boost but i guess can have someone build one round an xt hub or similar. Would be soooo much easier to just cash down on a prebuilt bike but where's the fun it that (famous last words)

    All musings ... but at 75 quid I couldnt say no...game on

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by weevie View Post
    Hi I have just picked up a new Manitou Machete J-Unit Forks 20" in 120MM for £75 from evil bay from a proper UK bike shop. Perhaps proves the aftermarket challenge of selling tapered and boost on a babies bike My challenge though is more obvious...as I have no bike or wheel to fit on this fork .... my lad in Q getting the bike is only 4.5 so I have about half a year. I need to get these forks lowered to 100m at least ...says on back of it it can be... anyone have the part number for a spacer or are they generic??

    . Also as per above on the Roxter can I add a load of spacers and drop this to 80mm and stick this on a normal kids 20" mtb hardtail... advise welcome....assume possible looking at the sweet bike above if so will look out for a second hand similar model (cujo maybe with a low BB that can be raised) or something else as a donor that needs the parts ripped off it.

    Sunringle duroc is the only 20" wheel I see prebuilt for this 15mm boost but i guess can have someone build one round an xt hub or similar. Would be soooo much easier to just cash down on a prebuilt bike but where's the fun it that (famous last words)

    All musings ... but at 75 quid I couldnt say no...game on
    Clip in travel spacers are here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/121-291...t-manitou.html
    You can drop it as much as you want.

    Check the spoke count before you look to rebuilding the wheel on a boost hub.

    Tapered head-tubes are pretty much non-existant on kids bikes, but many have 44mm head-tubes which you can convert. You have to look carefully.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Thanks

    Thanks v much for the steer. There may be some gratuitous copying of your rig happening as whilst I can build bikes i can’t afford to buy various frames to see where head tube cups can be set.. and it looks fantastic- boy 1 would love it. Pretty much all frames are listed as 11/8 for kids though so maybe any of these will take the lower larger cup from cane creek / hope etc?

    I did email you direct yesterday re spacers but then realised youre in NZ after it was sent. If can’t source via hotlines the UK distributor or somewhere closer Ill be in touch if I may for 5 + shipping to UK.

    May I ask whether you used a manufactured wheel up front or bought a hub and/or rim? Ive no time (or skill) to build my own wheels but sure LBS would do it.

    Further musing - i will see if there are some kiddies wheels / bikes that manufactured with a 100mm / 15mm hub? Could obv then just add a boost converter.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by weevie View Post
    Thanks v much for the steer. There may be some gratuitous copying of your rig happening as whilst I can build bikes i can’t afford to buy various frames to see where head tube cups can be set.. and it looks fantastic- boy 1 would love it. Pretty much all frames are listed as 11/8 for kids though so maybe any of these will take the lower larger cup from cane creek / hope etc?

    I did email you direct yesterday re spacers but then realised youre in NZ after it was sent. If can’t source via hotlines the UK distributor or somewhere closer Ill be in touch if I may for 5 + shipping to UK.

    May I ask whether you used a manufactured wheel up front or bought a hub and/or rim? Ive no time (or skill) to build my own wheels but sure LBS would do it.

    Further musing - i will see if there are some kiddies wheels / bikes that manufactured with a 100mm / 15mm hub? Could obv then just add a boost converter.
    I relaced the front wheel onto a Sun-Ringle SRC boost hub. The spoke lengths worked out perfect.
    I was considering the whole Duroc front wheel, but my OCD wouldn't like having mis-matching wheels and a pair of a Duroc wheels was a lot more than a front hub.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  66. #66
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    Here's the same Scott Roxter completely decked out.

    Looks like the full J-unit setup, machete junit fork, protaper stem, protaper 16/22mm junit bars, duroc junit wheels, Dominion A2 SFL brakes and an 11sp drivetrain.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8NPOgal9dL/
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I relaced the front wheel onto a Sun-Ringle SRC boost hub. The spoke lengths worked out perfect.
    I was considering the whole Duroc front wheel, but my OCD wouldn't like having mis-matching wheels and a pair of a Duroc wheels was a lot more than a front hub.
    Good to know. Thanks. Was just looking at that hub - I wonder if matches the Cujo wheel as well... Too much of a coincidence I expect but would be nice as even I can replace a hub with same spokes ....

    (Looking for a donor bike and will be Roxter or Cujo but 2nd hand like hens teeth in UK and was hoping to avoid new as many parts to be replaced).

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by weevie View Post
    Good to know. Thanks. Was just looking at that hub - I wonder if matches the Cujo wheel as well... Too much of a coincidence I expect but would be nice as even I can replace a hub with same spokes ....

    (Looking for a donor bike and will be Roxter or Cujo but 2nd hand like hens teeth in UK and was hoping to avoid new as many parts to be replaced).
    FYI -- if it helps with spoke length calculations, I built my wheels based on an ERD measurement of 387mm for the 2018 Cujo rims and used the following calculator:
    https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

    Cujo rims are 28 hole and I used 2 cross lacing.

  69. #69
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    Thanks for the link. There are one or two hubs available in 28h boost for a reasonable price so should be fine if no wheels magically appear for a decent price already built...

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    Also potentially useful -- if you have an iphone or ipad available, this app helps you visualize each step of lacing spokes:
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/rad-3d/id1103912788

    The good thing about it being a front wheel is that there seems to be a lot less differentiation in quality between cheap hubs and more expensive hubs once you get to something with sealed bearings -- the bigger differences I've noticed usually only come into play in the rear (greater POE, different cassette drivers, etc.).

  71. #71
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    service manual

    just in case anyone needs it I have managed to get the service/travel manual pdf (after quite some chasing) for the J Unit Machete. Not sure if can upload the whole doc to forum but if anyone wants it get in touch. Includes a diagram of where to put the spacers ....New 20&quot; / 24&quot; suspension fork option - Manitou Machete JUNIT-travel.jpg

  72. #72
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    Interesting to see 80mm on the list as an option with more spacers -- do they list the part # for the spacers?

  73. #73
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    Dougal kindly listed them above with his link

  74. #74
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    Hi, will this fork fir on a riprock 20? Does anybody know the head tube size on the riprock?

    ThX!

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