Results 1 to 27 of 27
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    75

    My son wants to go 1x10 advice needed

    Hey guys still getting up to speed on all of the changes over the last 15-20 years. My 12yr old son is currently riding a 06 fuel ex8 on 26's with a 2x9 gearset (we pulled the large and put a guard in its place) He is asking me to change him over to a 1x10 setup. Thing is we mostly ride in the Tourne and Dickerson mines and he does go into the granny gear currently. What should i be looking at for gearing if we go this route. The shifters and rear derailer are the easy part. pull of the old replace with newer clutch style. The gearing I do not know and most of what I have found is based on 29ers and 27.5 gearing not even counting we are taking someone without the leg strength of and adult. Any advice would be appreciated.

    Cross posted on the 26" forum as well thank you.
    2017 SC Tallboy.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    You need to know the spread on the cassette and the chainrings he has to figure this out.

    The widest 10sp cassette you can get is 11-42, 382% total gear range. With a 30t chainring his lowest gear would be 0.71:1 and his highest would be 2.73:1.

    Just guessing, but his 2x9 is probably 24-32x11-32, 388% total gear range. Lowest gear is 0.75:1 and highest is 2.91:1. So, in that scenario, going 1x10 with a 30x11-42 setup nets him a lower low gear, but costs him a little on the top end. You could move up to a 32t ring and maintain his current top gear and have a nearly identical low gear (0.762 vs 0.75).

    If his setup is 22-32x11-34, then that's a 450% range. High gear stays the same, low gear now goes down to 0.65:1. Meaning, you'd have to use a 28t chainring to maintain his current low gear (if that's even possible, his cranks may not accept a ring that small) and you'll lose a lot of top end. Maybe that's OK, it depends on how much he uses the 32x11.

    Option 3 is to get the 10sp shifter/RD/cassette, remove the FD, add a 32t NW chainring, but leave the little ring on there. If you need the old granny gear for a stout climb, just hand shift it. There's not much reason to do this if his current setup is 24-32x11-32, but it would be a good option if it is 22-32x11-34.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    85
    He can likely do what I did on my 2006 Rocky Mtn Slayer that was a 2x9 (also originally a 3x9 but replaced big ring w/ bash). I converted it to a 1x11 that had the same top and bottom gear ratios, so I didn't lose any speed or climbing ability.

    Here's what I bought. I did all the work myself and it's been awesome!

    • Race Face Bash Guard Light Black, 32
    • Shimano XT RD-M8000 11SP Rear Derailleur GS Cage
    • Shimano XT SL-M8000 11 Speed Shifter Rear Shifter, 11 Speed
    • Sunrace CSMX8 11 Speed Cassette 11-46 Tooth, Black
    • Race Face Narrow Wide Single Chainring - Black, 104mm, 30t
    • KMC X11-93 11 Speed Chain, Silver - Black, 118 Links


    Hope that helps!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    Yeah, that's an option too. Shimano 11sp works on a standard freehub. Not much more expensive than a 10sp group.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,144
    Find out what crank he has & what BCD. Buy a 30 or 32t that fits the middle ring. Keep the bashguard. It's going to be the same BCD as the bashguard.

    Go 11 speed shimano instead of 10 speed. It's only about $30 more if that & performs much better on super steep climbs.

    .If he's going to need the extra help on steep climbs go full XT, 11 speed shifter, derailleur & cassette with a 46t cassette cog.

    I prefer SRAM chains over shimano, I hate the pins shimano uses. SRAM works perfectly fine on my 10 & 11 speed shimano setups.

    sign up with activejunky.com & get some cash back if you're buying online. Currently it's 10% back at Jenson. Just make sure to login to active junky & then click on the link to Jenson.
    Last edited by eshew; 06-01-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    1983 Ritchey Everest
    1996 Bianchi Mega Tube ti
    1996 Ibis Mojo Ti
    2012 Ibis Mojo HD
    2015 Kona Process 153

  6. #6
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,586
    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    You need to know the spread on the cassette and the chainrings he has to figure this out.

    The widest 10sp cassette you can get is 11-42, 382% total gear range. With a 30t chainring his lowest gear would be 0.71:1 and his highest would be 2.73:1.

    Just guessing, but his 2x9 is probably 24-32x11-32, 388% total gear range. Lowest gear is 0.75:1 and highest is 2.91:1. So, in that scenario, going 1x10 with a 30x11-42 setup nets him a lower low gear, but costs him a little on the top end. You could move up to a 32t ring and maintain his current top gear and have a nearly identical low gear (0.762 vs 0.75).

    If his setup is 22-32x11-34, then that's a 450% range. High gear stays the same, low gear now goes down to 0.65:1. Meaning, you'd have to use a 28t chainring to maintain his current low gear (if that's even possible, his cranks may not accept a ring that small) and you'll lose a lot of top end. Maybe that's OK, it depends on how much he uses the 32x11.

    Option 3 is to get the 10sp shifter/RD/cassette, remove the FD, add a 32t NW chainring, but leave the little ring on there. If you need the old granny gear for a stout climb, just hand shift it. There's not much reason to do this if his current setup is 24-32x11-32, but it would be a good option if it is 22-32x11-34.

    Easy.

    First off, been there and have done it with my 2 kids who started riding at 4 and are now 12 and 14.

    Go 1x10.

    Get a 30t narrow/wide for the front ring, AND keep the granny ring on.

    Loose the FD.

    On that rare super long steep climb the kid can do a manual shift to the granny. Once practiced at it the drop takes about 5 seconds. I still keep a granny on a few of my own set ups.

    The weight loss and simplicity far out weighs any potential negatives.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    Quote Originally Posted by eshew View Post
    I prefer SRAM chains over shimano, I hate the pins shimano uses. SRAM works perfectly fine on my 10 & 11 speed shimano setups.
    Shimano chain + KMC quicklinks FTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Get a 30t narrow/wide for the front ring, AND keep the granny ring on.

    Loose the FD.

    On that rare super long steep climb the kid can do a manual shift to the granny. Once practiced at it the drop takes about 5 seconds. I still keep a granny on a few of my own set ups.
    I call it 1.1x10

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    44
    e13 makes a 9-42 10 speed. 466% range. Just need an XD driver. Should be able to get a 104 bcd spider to convert the chainring to 1x and not run a bash guard. When I did this on my last bike, I bought the spider from north shore billet and ran a 104 bcd raceface NW chainring.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    347
    I would not bother---a bunch of money and you are trying to get back to the same gearing....sure he wants it but......--I'd just get 1X on the next bike especially since he seems to need his current bail out gear

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    886
    I'd just get 1X on the next bike especially since he seems to need his current bail out gear
    Bail out gears are interesting.... I'm definitely someone who over thinks these things and on my own bike had I used the gear ratio's I'd never have gone 1x.. (at least at the time) because the range was so much smaller.

    For some reason I didn't overthink this time...
    Jnr's first 24er bike went 1x straight away... the cranks it came with were absolutely rubbish (in every possible way) ... they needed replacing in any case and the grip shifts needed binning.
    His new shorter cranks were 2x but the choice was putting the steel rings back OR going 1x and sticking on a NW chainring.
    I borrowed (turned out to be long term) by 78x mech and shifter off my XC bike and just tried it. Stuck on a 40T expander and lost the 11T.


    Jnr (8) now uses a 34T on his 24" for XC (just for top speed)... and we have since gone 1x11 so he has a 11-42 on the back but he only really uses 6-11 when racing and if the Shimano 11sp road was compatible I'd happily stick him a road cassette on purely for racing. (But the kids XC's are only 20-30 mins)

    When we go out riding he uses most of his 11-42... with a 32T on the front.
    He rarely uses the 42T... (this is on 24" wheels) ... and since he had 1x and the expander we actually call it the ZERO gear.... pretty much there for EXTREME and not for general use....

    I think the point is he doesn't actually NEED the gears, they are just nice when you're tired. In some ways like why a bike shed/garage is NEVER big enough... you just use the space and then can't imagine not having the space.

    On my own XC I later just pulled off the 2x and stuck on 1x with a 32T and 12-40. I rode a load of trails and when I went back and overthought the whole thing I found I had a whole load of range I used to use that I couldn't work out why I ever needed. The only bit I missed was spinning out on a few fire trails...
    (That was on a 27.5 wheel)

    For a complex set of component and wheel swaps... the XC bike is currently 1x10 with a 11-36.. and I barely miss the 40T really...

    I'm 50 and not that fit... and it works for me.
    My trail bike I just have a 11-42 and 32T front chainring... I got it 2x and didn't even ride it before pulling off the 2x (again the first thing I had to do was pull off the ridiculously long cranks so I could actually ride it without joint pain)

    We ride some of the most challenging uphills in the UK together on 1x... (granted it's the UK) but these are trails with names like DIG DEEP and DIG DEEPER and THE WALL..we pass a lot of people pushing and I'd guess plenty have 2x or even 3x.

    What I can say is on the climbs I have on occasion wished I was riding my lighter bike... but I haven't REALLY wished I had more gears.

    YMMV and all that ... but I soon found the bail out gear was psychological.
    Ever since Jnr stated we had a rule that we "only rest a the top" ... what that basically means is we don't stop when the first thing you have to do afterwards is a hard climb...

    If I do my over-analysis this is where I think the old granny gears got used... you start off then it's psychologically hard (and shifting under load) to then get into a harder gear...

    Cassettes, chainrings (well alloy ones) and chains are all wear items anyway.... just go Shimano 11sp and 11-40 or if you REALLY think its needed 11-42 or even 11-46

    Just my usual crank length RANT ... non of this applies if the cranks are too long.
    If they are then you can forget about proper efficient seated pedalling and need a granny ring.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    75
    I can pick up locally a sram NX shifter cassette derailer chain for $150. All I would need is the narrow wide front sprocket any thoughts
    2017 SC Tallboy.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    886
    Personally Id go shimano because you can continue with the same wheel/hub later

    CRC do a bundle with chain and XT 11-36 + absolute black narrow wide and chain ... with Deore shifters and mech comes to about $200

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    75
    Thanks I will go check out the CRC pricing. I did go and look at the NX stuff however the cassette would not work for my hub so I did not bother..
    2017 SC Tallboy.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    113
    Good old Sheldon Brown (ride on bro) will help you out with comparing the gearing:
    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

    I'm building up a 26" full sus for my 10 year old, and decided to go 1x10, specifically 32 x 11-40. That gives me the gearing I want and an 11 speed would only really provide slightly smaller gaps between gears, specifically 18T vs 17T & 19T. Which my lad just won't notice.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfjon View Post
    I can pick up locally a sram NX shifter cassette derailer chain for $150. All I would need is the narrow wide front sprocket any thoughts
    That NX cassette is really heavy, I'd avoid that one. The rest of the NX parts with a SLX/XT cassette would be a good way to go.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    948
    I would just stick with the 9 speed. Put a narrow wide on the front. (Id try 26t or 28t) and a wide range rear. Like a this 11-40 :
    SunRace | CSM990

    My daughter runs that set-up one her bike, except, since that cassette wasnt out when I did it, I uses a replacement 40t cog for a normal cassette.

    Sure, hell spin out on fast downhills, but whats the problem with that? Pump for speed or coast and rest up for the climb. Save the money for the next bike.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
    I would just stick with the 9 speed...
    This.

    Don't overthink or overspend. Stick with 9s and go 1x. You'll want the low more than the high probably, so small NW chainring (30t?) and maybe a wider range cassette, and done. You might have to shorten the chain of drops are an issue.

    10s doesn't get you anything other than smaller steps within the same limits.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    Quote Originally Posted by dookie View Post
    10s doesn't get you anything other than smaller steps within the same limits.
    9sp clutch derailleurs don't exist.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    886
    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    9sp clutch derailleurs don't exist.
    Or 40/42 expander cogs
    Or mechs able to handle them ...

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    9sp clutch derailleurs don't exist.
    You don't need one. My Mach 4 runs great as a 1x9 with a non-clutch RD and a narrow-wide. Shorten the chain appropriately and drops are a non-issue.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    75
    So I ended up getting a Sram X9 10sp Derailleur and Shifter from a local rider and since it was for my kid he practically gave it to me.. I also got an Ebay coupon last week that took 20% off my whole order..
    He is now got a NX 165mm crankset with a 32T front sprocket and a sunrace 11-40 rear sprocket paired up with the X9 setup and the whole conversion cost me under $175
    will update once we go for a real ride. last night we did try it but still had the 175mm cranks on it.
    2017 SC Tallboy.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    Or 40/42 expander cogs
    Or mechs able to handle them ...


    As I mentioned in my original post, those items most definitely DO exist. I have run the E13 expander cog on my daughters 9 speed bike for several years now. No clutch, just narrow wide chainring(with 10 sp chain).

    I also posted a ink to a complete 11-40t 9 speed cassette in my post too.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,016
    Hey is there a way to expand my kids 10sp SRAM GX drive train beyond 11-36 in a way that works well? The derailleur states it cant go beyond that OE cassette range but I'm hoping there is some sweet option for a solid Dad Mechanic. There are times on some super steep climbs that the boy could use the extra range.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    886
    I've only done this with Shimano but ...
    The expander works by replacing one of the existing sprockets... so if the GX cassette can have sprockets removed this is added as the new 1st... On Shimano I've removed the 11T and used a different 12T lock ring but you can also pull out the 14T and 16T for example and replace with a 15T and keep the same locking.

    The Shimano rear mechs are fine for 40 and perhaps 42... I expect the SRAM is to but the telling thing is often how the mech is mounted and chainstays.

    Ultimately this rear mech mounting can be changed with a goatlink or similar that extends where the rear mech mounts. It's just an expensive bit of metal that extends the mech mount but 10sp ones are usually discounted now. (You might not need one so try without first - of 4 bikes non I have tried needed it)

    As a side note the newer 11sp Shimano they released the XT first and that was rated to 42T (their largest at the time) ... by the time they released SLX they had a 46T and the SLX was rated for that but nothing changed and the XT one apparently works just as well on the 46T...

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    376
    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Hey is there a way to expand my kids 10sp SRAM GX drive train beyond 11-36 in a way that works well? The derailleur states it cant go beyond that OE cassette range but I'm hoping there is some sweet option for a solid Dad Mechanic. There are times on some super steep climbs that the boy could use the extra range.
    You need a medium cage RD. I'm guessing the YJ comes with a short cage. I tried a Sunrace 11-42 on my son's Flow for a while. It works, but not without issues. The main problem is that the chainstays are so short that the chain angle gets really severe on either end of the cassette. Even after a lot of messing around with chainring spacers I could never get the shifting 100% perfect, and there were always backpedaling problems in the smallest and largest cogs. I haven't bothered with it on the Rokkusuta. YMMV.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    You need a medium cage RD. I'm guessing the YJ comes with a short cage. I tried a Sunrace 11-42 on my son's Flow for a while. It works, but not without issues. The main problem is that the chainstays are so short that the chain angle gets really severe on either end of the cassette. Even after a lot of messing around with chainring spacers I could never get the shifting 100% perfect, and there were always backpedaling problems in the smallest and largest cogs. I haven't bothered with it on the Rokkusuta. YMMV.
    I think this is the reason you see 11-36 max cassette as spec on 20" bikes. 11-40 or 11-42 wrecks chainline havoc on the 20" bikes based on my quick tinkering as well. Seems like you could correct it with the Brood direct mount cranks and maybe a 26 tooth ring, but I would think a 26 tooth chainring on a 20" wheel bike might even spin out super fast on the flats? Not to mention DH stuff completely run out of gear.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    948
    as mentioned, you need a mid cage derailleur, and then it will easily work on 40 or 42t, despite the official specs.

    The bigger problem is chain line, as mentioned by RMCDan and the fact that the derailleur ends up VERY close to the ground, which makes the chance of ripping it off that much bigger.

    For this reason I kept my daughters 20 bike at 11-36.
    Just install a smaller chainring to take care of the climbs and coast/pump on the descents.

Similar Threads

  1. Noobie wants to go 1x10
    By Scrappy jr. in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-01-2014, 11:56 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-29-2014, 12:32 PM
  3. 13 year old son wants to ride Demo
    By peter19ue in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 09-06-2013, 03:07 PM
  4. My son wants a FS 29er.
    By hardwarz in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-11-2011, 05:40 PM
  5. Son wants to ride SS in moab
    By PBR me! in forum Colorado - Western Slope
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-19-2011, 05:08 AM

Members who have read this thread: 99

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.