Manitou Markhor26" on 24" bike for an 80lb. kid?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7

    Manitou Markhor26" on 24" bike for an 80lb. kid?

    2014 Rocky Mountain Vertex 24 with Suntour XCR Air fork. Bought the bike new, now on it's second kid. The fork has never worked right, have completely dis-assembled and cleaned/lubed everything and it is almost always stuck mid stroke unless it takes a big hit.

    I'd like to fit a better fork on it for him, but there are very limited options in 24" with straight steer tubes.

    Markhor is +41mm in A-C, will raise BB height ~16mm to ~314mm, slack head tube to ~68* and save 300g weight. Correct me if there are any red flags there, it seems reasonable to me with my limited geo knowledge.

    My concern is how well the fork will work with an 80lb. rider, the lowest weight on the Markhor psi chart is for 120lb rider and 70-90psi.

    Anyone have any experience with light weights on this fork? Or better alternatives?

    Cheers,
    Guy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Markhor26" on 24" bike for an 80lb. kid?-vertex-medium-.jpg  


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,715
    Yeah, just get the Manitou JUnit fork. Its the ultimate in kids fork, nothing else comes close in a 24". Equivalent to an 800$ fork as it has their best dual-chamber airspring, their best damper and a ridiculously nice custom tune for children (not just a light rider/ladies tune).

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    Junit looks very, very nice except for the tapered steer tube and the 15mm thru axle. A new front wheel and 1.5" headset adapter (more a-c increase) plus cost of fork puts price a bit far out there on this one. If he was just getting on this bike yeah, but he's most likely moving onto his next bike come Fall.

    I went ahead and ordered the Markhor. If it's too much, might try 2.5w oil instead of the 5w or attempt to source the "kids tune" internals spec'd for this fork on some youth bikes out there. His mom's bike has a Magnum, it works much better for him than his Suntour even when aired for her weight. I anticipate this will be an improvement either way.

    He's dying to mullet the bike out, so we ordered an extra spacer with the fork to limit travel to 60mm. We'll throw on a 26" from another bike to give it a go. No idea if it will actually be an improvement but have a feeling he will trade the 20mm of travel for the 26" because it will look so "cool." I'll post some pics etc. when we get it installed and tested.

    Cheers,
    Guy

  4. #4
    Bikes in jeans
    Reputation: jestep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMGuy View Post
    Junit looks very, very nice except for the tapered steer tube and the 15mm thru axle. A new front wheel and 1.5" headset adapter (more a-c increase) plus cost of fork puts price a bit far out there on this one. If he was just getting on this bike yeah, but he's most likely moving onto his next bike come Fall.

    I went ahead and ordered the Markhor. If it's too much, might try 2.5w oil instead of the 5w or attempt to source the "kids tune" internals spec'd for this fork on some youth bikes out there. His mom's bike has a Magnum, it works much better for him than his Suntour even when aired for her weight. I anticipate this will be an improvement either way.

    He's dying to mullet the bike out, so we ordered an extra spacer with the fork to limit travel to 60mm. We'll throw on a 26" from another bike to give it a go. No idea if it will actually be an improvement but have a feeling he will trade the 20mm of travel for the 26" because it will look so "cool." I'll post some pics etc. when we get it installed and tested.

    Cheers,
    Guy
    You can convert a 15mm to QR for like $20 with an adapter, DT and numerous others make a sleeve for it. Personally, I would find a used SID or Reba, you can run them down to like 20psi and straight steerer versions aren't terribly difficult to get on ebay, CL, or pinkbike.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    283
    I bought a used Marzocchi X-Fly for my son's 24" build on E-bay.
    Works great.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Markhor26" on 24" bike for an 80lb. kid?-raleigh.jpg  


  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    171
    What you are doing is pretty much what I had planned for my sons MT220, but when I added up all the costs, I decided to just buy him a new bike. His MT220 would have needed disc brakes, hubs, fork, stem, bars, shifters, etc, and I got to the point where I just asked myself why, and it still had a junk 3x7. You are starting out with most of the stuff needed for the swap.

    The Commencal HT Junior 27.5 arrives on Sunday according to Fedex.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Ryder View Post
    I bought a used Marzocchi X-Fly for my son's 24" build on E-bay.
    Works great.
    Nice looking bike. Is that a 26" frame? Looks like it has quite a bit more wheelbase than my son's. I tried to shop used, but didn't find anything that caught my eye. I'm into the Markhor $209 shipped, so it was hard to pass up.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody special View Post
    What you are doing is pretty much what I had planned for my sons MT220, but when I added up all the costs, I decided to just buy him a new bike. His MT220 would have needed disc brakes, hubs, fork, stem, bars, shifters, etc, and I got to the point where I just asked myself why, and it still had a junk 3x7. You are starting out with most of the stuff needed for the swap.

    The Commencal HT Junior 27.5 arrives on Sunday according to Fedex.
    I hear you, with the money we will have in this bike from stock we could have bought a different bike.....not as nice as that Meta HT though. The thing is, he's very attached to this bike and not ready to let go. I think the reason for that is all of the elbow grease he has invested in it and the reward of seeing how every upgrade has improved the rideability of the bike. The Markhor will be an experiment...hopefully we'll come out on the positive side. If not, he'll have the experience of installing and modifying the internals of a new fork. As his next bike will most likely be turnkey, it's a good opportunity for that.

    That Meta HT is a really nice looking package.! Looking at the Geo, it shows bottom bracked drop of 30mm, the Vertex is 25mm. Taking into acount the much larger tires (27.5 vs. 24) I'm much less concerned about this conversion raising his BB height.

    Fork is scheduled to be delivered on Monday. I'll post some info when we get it installed.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    171
    My son was attached to his MT220, right up until I sat him on my bike and let him ride it around the yard. Then he was interested in a new bike.

    His Commencal arrived about an hour ago and we put it together. It is a little big for him but he is 9YO and 55" tall. It is 1.5" away from being perfect. He is very happy with it. I'll do some pictures in a new post in a day or so, I want to sort it out as best we can first.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    171
    I am interested in how well the Markhor fork works, because the Meta HT Jr comes with a steel stanchion Rockshox Recon, and an aluminum Markhor would knock about 600 grams off the bike.

    Nukeproof has the re-valved Markhor on their Race 26" bike, so I assume parts must be purchasable and retro-fittable.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody special View Post
    I am interested in how well the Markhor fork works, because the Meta HT Jr comes with a steel stanchion Rockshox Recon, and an aluminum Markhor would knock about 600 grams off the bike.

    Nukeproof has the re-valved Markhor on their Race 26" bike, so I assume parts must be purchasable and retro-fittable.
    Noticed the youth tuning on the Nukeproof. If that isn't available, the fork is also compatible with the ABS+ Damper which is re-shimable and Manitou offers a PDF tuning guide for.

    Just found this thread showing the two damper assemblies, looks like the Kwik Toggle can also be re-shimmed to some extent.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...e-1053156.html

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,298
    The Markhor is based on the previous R7 platform and some of those are still available. You can put ABS+ in either and tune the damper for kids.

    The big benefit of the Machete Junit is the positive/negative air self balances for lighter and heavier riders. The R7 and Markhor have a steel negative spring which is hard to swap out and has limited options.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The Markhor is based on the previous R7 platform and some of those are still available. You can put ABS+ in either and tune the damper for kids.

    The big benefit of the Machete Junit is the positive/negative air self balances for lighter and heavier riders. The R7 and Markhor have a steel negative spring which is hard to swap out and has limited options.
    Can the Junit features that make it good for kids be swapped into a 27.5 Machete fork?

    Or how well would a standard Machete work with a kid that is 75-80 lbs?

    I had been thinking for the fork that lighter would be good, and it still would be, but we now have three rides and at least 20 miles on the new 27.5 Commencal with the Recon RL fork, we are actually pretty happy with the Recon RL performance. I sort of thought we would not be happy with both the Recon RL performance and weight, but the performance was much better than expected.

    Thanks

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMGuy View Post
    Nice looking bike. Is that a 26" frame? Looks like it has quite a bit more wheelbase than my son's. I tried to shop used, but didn't find anything that caught my eye. I'm into the Markhor $209 shipped, so it was hard to pass up.
    Yes, it's a 26" frame in XS. Wheelbase and chainstay are a bit long. Once he moves upto 26" wheels should be a bit better. But he loves it and it fits him pretty well.
    Got the fame for about $100, had a bunch of parts, scored a 24" wheelset for cheap. Got some 152mm cranks.

    I didn't want to buy a 24" bike with him growing so fast.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    Markhor showed up yesterday, we installed it last night. Fit and finish on the fork is first class, very impressed. Guestimated a starting pressure of 50psi. from the chart on the fork as the lowest listed is 70-90 for 120lb rider. Finished after dark, he threw his headlight on and rode for a good hour+ around his track and all we can say is wow! Beyond thrilled with how this fork works! Extremely minimal stiction, like un-noticeable. With 50psi the fork sag (yes, it sags....unheard of with the suntour) is a little bit too much, we'll tweak the psi to tune that in. He's also using full travel/bottoming on jumps, not hard but a little more psi will help there too. He was standing up pedaling by yelling "The fork moves when I pedal!" A strange new phenomenon to get used to.

    I went into this thinking that I was going to have to do some sort of modification to get this fork to work acceptably for his weight, but as of now I can't see changing a single thing. It just works so surprisingly good. Busy week, so we won't be out on a trail until Friday afternoon, but will pay attention to how it does on some rocky sections etc.

    One weird thing: We installed the 20mm spacer to reduce travel down to 80mm, but for some reason the fork is only getting 73mm of travel from stop to stop. 7mm seems like a bit far off of advertised?

    Specs with 80mm (73mm) travel:
    Markhour weight: 1633g un-cut, 1616 cut (198g savings over Suntour)
    Ground to crown increase: 23mm
    BB height increase: 10mm
    HTA change: 69.6 to 68.1
    Bike weight: 26lbs. 5oz.

    Because the geo changes were minimal (IMO), I think he can give the 26" Mullet front a try. No initial investment as he can borrow the front wheel from the Big Dummy. If it's a no go, and he ends up going back to the 24" we'll most likely open the fork up to the 100mm (93mm?) travel and remove the spacers under the stem. Either way this should get him through this summer and into his next bike. He wants full suspension and has his eyes on the new Norco Sight Youth. I told him he needs to get a second job....He replied "But, I don't have a first job?"....exactly.... :-P

    Cheers,
    Guy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Markhor26" on 24" bike for an 80lb. kid?-vertex-markhor-medium-.jpg  


  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMGuy View Post
    I went into this thinking that I was going to have to do some sort of modification to get this fork to work acceptably for his weight, but as of now I can't see changing a single thing. It just works so surprisingly good. Busy week, so we won't be out on a trail until Friday afternoon, but will pay attention to how it does on some rocky sections etc.
    I was thinking the same thing with the Recon on the new bike. The Recon is a 150mm travel fork, he is getting about 100mm of travel out of it so far, probably he will get it to travel more once he starts jumping it. We are running just under 70 psi and it works pretty well, but I have not measured sag. Not sure we will bother, it works pretty well at this point. We have one click of rebound damping and two clicks of low speed damping.

    He was a little intimidated by the size of the bike on the first ride but he quickly realized the 27.5" tires go over stuff the 24" tires wouldn't even come close to rolling over. Once he is more accustomed to size I think he will get more travel out of it.

    That is good news on the Markhor.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7
    One more afternoon of riding on the fork. Tried the 26" mullet setup and it is a definite no-go. Not only did it look awful but it added a bit of toe overlap. We took the 20mm spacer out increasing the travel to a theoretical 100mm, which is actually 93mm, and removed 20mm of spacers under the stem. Increased the pressure a few pounds and he is still using full travel pre-loading on the transition and on landing. We'll keep adding a bit of pressure until we find the sweet spot. He is loving the setup!

    Another interesting thing on the fork is the rebound knob, it does not have any kind of detent or indexing reference. It is just a simple screw. Instead of two clicks of rebound, we'll have 1/4 turn? Non-issue now as we have it all the way open and seems to be plenty at these low pressures.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobody special View Post
    He was a little intimidated by the size of the bike on the first ride but he quickly realized the 27.5" tires go over stuff the 24" tires wouldn't even come close to rolling over.
    For sure! My son earned the nickname is "Ricochet" as he has a knack for hitting a rock/root/stick/pinecone and his bike will fly off off the side leaving him in the middle of the trail. He's getting better at un-weighing the front end for obstacles, but the overwhelming majority of these would be rolled without issue on 27.5".

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,298
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMGuy View Post
    Markhor showed up yesterday, we installed it last night. Fit and finish on the fork is first class, very impressed. Guestimated a starting pressure of 50psi. from the chart on the fork as the lowest listed is 70-90 for 120lb rider. Finished after dark, he threw his headlight on and rode for a good hour+ around his track and all we can say is wow! Beyond thrilled with how this fork works! Extremely minimal stiction, like un-noticeable. With 50psi the fork sag (yes, it sags....unheard of with the suntour) is a little bit too much, we'll tweak the psi to tune that in. He's also using full travel/bottoming on jumps, not hard but a little more psi will help there too. He was standing up pedaling by yelling "The fork moves when I pedal!" A strange new phenomenon to get used to.

    I went into this thinking that I was going to have to do some sort of modification to get this fork to work acceptably for his weight, but as of now I can't see changing a single thing. It just works so surprisingly good. Busy week, so we won't be out on a trail until Friday afternoon, but will pay attention to how it does on some rocky sections etc.

    One weird thing: We installed the 20mm spacer to reduce travel down to 80mm, but for some reason the fork is only getting 73mm of travel from stop to stop. 7mm seems like a bit far off of advertised?

    Specs with 80mm (73mm) travel:
    Markhour weight: 1633g un-cut, 1616 cut (198g savings over Suntour)
    Ground to crown increase: 23mm
    BB height increase: 10mm
    HTA change: 69.6 to 68.1
    Bike weight: 26lbs. 5oz.

    Because the geo changes were minimal (IMO), I think he can give the 26" Mullet front a try. No initial investment as he can borrow the front wheel from the Big Dummy. If it's a no go, and he ends up going back to the 24" we'll most likely open the fork up to the 100mm (93mm?) travel and remove the spacers under the stem. Either way this should get him through this summer and into his next bike. He wants full suspension and has his eyes on the new Norco Sight Youth. I told him he needs to get a second job....He replied "But, I don't have a first job?"....exactly.... :-P

    Cheers,
    Guy
    The missing travel is in the top-out springs and bottom-out bumper. The bottom bumper will compress about 5-7mm when hit hard enough. The top-out springs (coil spring with rubber bumper inside on that fork) require more air pressure to fully compress them.

    It's the top-out spring system that makes the J-unit Machetes soo good compared to everything else. They use air so it self adjusts to your air pressure.

    The older 32mm Manitou forks (any from about 2008) can be converted to the Expert Air system the Junits are using. But not without modification. I haven't done the whole thing yet but I have test fit the parts that matter and it can be done. The modifications are required to the air piston (to fit stanchion diameter) and to the lower legs (different foot attachment).
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

Similar Threads

  1. Using a 24" DH Tire for a Kid's Fatbike
    By BullSCit in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-27-2016, 08:02 PM
  2. Reducing weight of kid's 24" bike
    By joeadnan in forum Weight Weenies
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 04-10-2015, 01:44 AM
  3. Mammut 24" kid's bike
    By Raidthefridgeguy in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-06-2014, 02:56 PM
  4. Kid's 20" and 24" single speeds
    By mtnbiker72 in forum Families and Riding with Kids
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-02-2014, 09:36 PM
  5. New kid (not so kid... lol) on the block...
    By Pikachu_MTB in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-03-2013, 08:35 AM

Members who have read this thread: 35

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.