Long-travel 24 inch FS frame options- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Long-travel 24 inch FS frame options

    So, hypothetically, let's say a component manufacturer had a youth-specific product line and was offering your kid almost a full build kit for free (front and rear suspension, brakeset, wheelset, all cockpit parts). What long-travel 24" frame would you get to put them on?

    Ideally I'd probably get a Rokkusuta 24 frame, but they won't sell you one. Almost no one who makes a 24" FS will sell just the frame, and most of the options are too little travel anyway. Lil Shredder Phenom and Slater Mobster seem to be about it, and neither get me particularly excited.

  2. #2
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    You know, perhaps you could call around Whistler a bit and see if anyone up there is doing custom stuff. Brian and Lil Shredder might do some custom stuff as well or know of someone.

    There is always the Meekboyz stuff too. What's another mortgage? 😉

  3. #3
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    It's a fair question but what do you mean by "long travel" ???

    If we said for an adult 27.5 ... then
    200mm+ would be DH only ?
    160-180? Enduro long travel?

    Then for a 29er we might even say 150-170 was long travel Enduro ???

    So how does that translate to a kids bike... with an adult bike we might even LOWER the limit for bigger wheels ... perhaps partly we say it's rollover but partly it's simply making the room before the wheel hits the saddle.

    Obviously the whole 24er is smaller.... including the wheels so what is the equivalent .... and how long do the chain stays need to be for a certain amount of rear travel????

    Obviously all just more questions not an answer.... nor do I have answers...
    I feel like a 140mm 24er should be like an adult 180mm 27.5 ....??? a 130mm perhaps like a 160mm?
    However this is largely just by comparing to my bikes.... the current 100mm is actually pretty similar to my 160mm in terms of scaled geo than my 130mm... though he can blast through the travel .. well so can I... ????

  4. #4
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    I'm guessing he means something like a Rokusutta but in a frame only option. So roughly 130mm to 150mm

  5. #5
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    Yeah, something in the 130-150mm range. His 20" bike is 100 mm F/R so I'm certainly not going up a wheel size without increasing the travel.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    I'm guessing he means something like a Rokusutta but in a frame only option. So roughly 130mm to 150mm
    Yeah... as we discussed between us though ... working out how it compares is a bit of a minefield.

    Mondraker used to do a longer travel to their current 24 (Factor) (as I remember) but it seems to have been discontinued... Commencal make some as do Propain ... but these mostly seem to have abandoned any pretence at being pedal-able uphill... (At least I've never seen one of them attempt it)

    Last Jnr DH race for example I barely saw anyone riding up the fire trail ...the only one I did see was being towed by his dad's e-bike... I wasn't specifically looking but one of my kids friends on the Propain Yuma barely ride past the start of the climb .. (which isn't the same as saying they can't but... ?)

  7. #7
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    Commencals have always been tanks. The listed weight on the Yuma is like 26 lbs so very much pedalable. A kid I know does quite a bit of climbing on a stock Rokkusuta 24 (28 lbs). My 50 lb son can knock out 1,000'-1,500' vert on a 25 lb Rokkusuta 20 no problem.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    Commencals have always been tanks. The listed weight on the Yuma is like 26 lbs so very much pedalable. A kid I know does quite a bit of climbing on a stock Rokkusuta 24 (28 lbs). My 50 lb son can knock out 1,000'-1,500' vert on a 25 lb Rokkusuta 20 no problem.
    I don't think it's purely down to weight ... There are plenty of adult carbon DH bikes that don't weigh much more though I and I don't fancy riding up 1500' on one of those even though I weigh 160lbs... (A stock session 9.9 comes in under 35pounds. quick google and I'm sure I can find one lighter)

    I'm happy pedalling my 160mm Mega about but then its designed for that... I'm not so sure I'd be as happy on a 180mm travel version though.. and neither is Sam Hill who's way fitter than I'll ever be...) Rumour also has it he won't let them make the Medium longer and slacker either which puts me in a spot as the new longer and spacer large is too large for me but they didn't change the medium that Sam Hill rides.

    Obviously it's not a DH bike and he only managed a crappy 6th in the world champs last year... but it can't be THAT far off to get 6th... so the question I'm really asking is what frame geo and travel works for kids? At what point is the bid essentially a double crown equivalent (but obviously using a single)??? Is it 130, 140 or more???

    Obviously there is the smaller wheel thing ... but also there is the point at which the Geo is not going to pedal well. (Even though it gives some gains on pure descending)


    Incidentally... Jnr's friend gets frame only from Propain (as part of his sponsorship) so perhaps it is possible even though its not advertised ... and if the "theoretically" isn't so theoretical.. lists of sponsored riders get a stock bike but then have to take off parts and stick on sponsored ones. Jnr's friend was riding with Matt Jones 2-3 weeks ago (https://www.facebook.com/mattjonesmtb/) and Matt is sponsored by Marin and Halo + Gusset and Fox so he has to pull the non sponsored stuff off (even on a bke he helped design).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    Obviously there is the smaller wheel thing ... but also there is the point at which the Geo is not going to pedal well. (Even though it gives some gains on pure descending)
    Well, yeah. That's the issue with the Mobster, the geo seems a bit too gravity-focused (although not a huge fan of suspension design or 27.2 seatpost, either). OTOH, all the new Transitions have 64* HTAs and they're supposed to climb really well.


    ETA: (24/27.5)*170 = 148. So, if we're talking about scaling things strictly based off wheel size ratios 140-150 mm of travel seems pretty appropriate for a 24" enduro/aggressive AM type of bike.
    Last edited by RMCDan; 10-30-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    Well, yeah. That's the issue with the Mobster, the geo seems a bit too gravity-focused (although not a huge fan of suspension design or 27.2 seatpost, either). OTOH, all the new Transitions have 64* HTAs and they're supposed to climb really well.


    ETA: (24/27.5)*170 = 148. So, if we're talking about scaling things strictly based off wheel size ratios 140-150 mm of travel seems pretty appropriate for a 24" enduro/aggressive AM type of bike.
    Yeah I worked a similar ratio's but then if you applied it from a 29er it would be different.
    Many manufacturers would say you need less travel with the bigger wheels.... (I'm not saying I agree or disagree since I only ride 27.5... )


    One of the things with the kids bikes is they are using adult shocks... albeit in light tunes.. so that imposes limits on the leverage ratio's and linkage design, how they pedal and how they balance front to rear. Jnr's Norco is built around a tiny 152mmx31mm shock which has it's own drawbacks (like finding replacement parts)..

    It's becoming increasingly common on adult bikes to have lower travel on the rear than forks.

    Lot's of this hype is the bike industry trying to sell us new things ... and/or then trying to over come the physical limits of those new things... i.e. how much do 29ers soak up and not need as much rear travel compared to the manufacturer simply reduced the travel due to the wheel hitting the saddle.

    Trying to filter the hype from practicalities is not easy.... it's not like you can just try it yourself. I was very surprised with my 160mm bike and how well it climbs having come from a 140/130 the main difference I find is I actually use the climb setting on the 160 whereas I didn't on 130. The STA is steeper on the 160 (unsagged) and that seems to make a big difference to climbing overcoming the slacker HTA.


    I know someone with a 24" Yuma ... but their Dad is rather protective of it... so my kid hasn't tried it... but I'd think this is more a try before you buy if ever there was... (which I'm pretty much in favour of on adult bikes anyway)

  11. #11
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastpath View Post
    I'm not entirely sure those are coming to the market anytime soon. I've been hoping to see them come to fruition as there is a fair amount of tech in those bikes that allow it to properly "grow" in size. Longer stays, adjustable reach setups etc. Would be cool to see.

  13. #13
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    Flow has a really cool-looking design going, but it still appears to be vaporware for the foreseeable future. Decent odds they'll sell framesets though since they do for the hardtail.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    I'm not entirely sure those are coming to the market anytime soon. I've been hoping to see them come to fruition as there is a fair amount of tech in those bikes that allow it to properly "grow" in size. Longer stays, adjustable reach setups etc. Would be cool to see.
    I can see the adjustable chain stay part ... but for the life of me couldn't see how they extend the reach on them ???

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    I can see the adjustable chain stay part ... but for the life of me couldn't see how they extend the reach on them ???
    1.5" headtube with an eccentric headset.

  16. #16
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    For a trail bike the Transition is a good choice. We know plenty of kids riding them and they seem to hold up well.
    We had a Prodigy and for what it's worth I wouldn't recommend it. It was our third Little Shredder and we had nothing but issues with it from day one. My son got didn't even get two seasons on it before the frame cracked. It was a situation where I firmly belive it was due to a manufacturing defect and the company felt it was due to how it was being used. In the end I ended up spending a ton of money for a frame that is now a decoration in our basement.
    We move him onto a Commencal and we couldn't be happier. Yes it's heavier but for the money you save compared to the LS you can get it down to a reasonable weight. Commencal has also been amazing to us customer service wise. My son is hard on the bike and he just finished his second season on it without any issues. If you're looking for a pure trail bike I would still push towards the Transition just because I feel like it would be lighter and it's available as a frame only. For a mix trail/park bike I don't think you can go wrong with Commencal though. Unfortunately they don't offer frames only to my knowledge.
    Egg

  17. #17
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    Anyone actually build a Slater Mobster up?! Its slacker than the Transition and allows for some decent growth w 26” wheels fitting as well and a lot of travel to grow into. But i cannot find a single online review of anyone who has built one and had their child ride it!!

  18. #18
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    I'm not sure what to think about that, tho something tells me the Clash 24" will be similar cost and have better, kids specific suspension(unlisted until later, maybe seaotter) with a bit better all around geo. The conversion to 26" is cool tho it comes at a cost geo wise. In the end of the kid is big enough for 26", he need a longer bike and more reach

    Mobster frame 950
    Wheels 500
    Fork 500

    Clash is 2k tho also it needs some updates. So hard to say

  19. #19
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    I have everything except for the fork and for a 26” 140/150 it will be less than $500 for sure. I rrally want frame only as i have a good build kot mostly acquired already.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by backinmysaddle View Post
    I have everything except for the fork and for a 26” 140/150 it will be less than $500 for sure. I rrally want frame only as i have a good build kot mostly acquired already.
    Gotcha. Sounds good!

  21. #21
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    Another candidate is this Rossignol trail 24” FS. https://www.the-house.com/qroatr24rd...nol-bikes.html

    Looks like 67 HTA and 73 STA, 120 rear travel and 100 front travel. Decent 1x drivetrain, although the 155mm NX cranks are probably a bit long for kids on a 24” wheel.

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