Kids 11 spd Gruppo- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 31 of 31
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58

    Kids 11 spd Gruppo

    I just bought my 7 year old a Diamondback Sync'r for Christmas, I am now going to need to upgrade my 9 year olds drive train... because you know how siblings can be. He has a GT Stomper Ace, Shimano SL-M310, 1x8 shifters and Sunrace SL-M310 cog, I am assuming that I will need a new rear wheel too to accommodate the extra axle needed.
    I am looking to swap out the group and need a direction in wheel choice and hadrware . Thanks.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    255
    Is the cassette on a freehub or is it a freewheel type? If it's the latter, leave it. You'll be out more money than the rig is worth. If it's a Shimano freehub, then you SHOULD (needs to be checked, this is the internet after all) be able to go all the way up to a 10 speed on the stock hub. After that, you've got lots of options. M6000, Zee, etc. depending on your budget and how you want to set it up.

    Mileage varies, but for me that'd be a lot of $ and effort to drop on a bike that was probably pretty budget-minded to begin with. You might get more value out of some cosmetic items or other upgrades. Chester pedals, colored bar upgrade, etc.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    I'm interested in this as well but for a bike that def has a Shimano hub and supports 11sp cassette. Whats the best value for 11sp /w 11-46 without being a tank? I was considering SRAM GX 11sp. I'd like to have i-spec or matchmaker as an option as some of the cheaper NX style shifters have big weird clamps that get in the way.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    255
    For 11sp Shimano on a budget... SLX all the way. The new SLX group is now the old XT, so it's clutched and ready to rock. Beyond that, pick your cassette range and add to cart.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    Kingfisher, the details on the existing 8 spd and hub are posted below, I Ordered the SLX 11 spd derailleur and shifter, 11-40 (all that was available), KMC chain.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    Quote Originally Posted by defdes View Post
    Kingfisher, the details on the existing 8 spd and hub are posted below, I Ordered the SLX 11 spd derailleur and shifter, 11-40 (all that was available), KMC chain.
    Don't get a 11-40 cassette. You can get an XT 11sp 11-46 cassette. Kids need all the gearing help they can get.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    I thought I ordered the 11-42 but realized it was an 11-40....I'll have to reorder. ChainReaction didn't have an 11-46 available, but Ill shop around.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    255
    I had to go back and edit this because we had wires/conversations crossing. Svinyard, for 11sp look at Sunrace as well. They have some even wider range options (11-50) but functionality varies. I run a Sunrace 11-50 with an XT M8000 RD on my fat bike and it's awesome. Defdes, unfortunately while that info is helpful for folks with 11sp, I don't think it'll apply to you. The hub is different between 8,9,10 and 11. The 11 is wider. If you have a 10 speed compatible freehub, then you need a 10 speed groupset. If you ordered 11sp, cancel that too, it wont work. Hopefully Steve-XTC or Svinyard and others can check my math. I know Sunrace has a few cassettes they got creative with that are made to fit on a 10 speed hub, but I'm not 100% confident on fitment here.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    I referred you to pics that were actually in another similar thread, see post #26 for existing set up https://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...a-1068709.html
    I am getting conflicting info from this thread and that. I ordered a 10 speed group and an 11 speed group, one will be returned OR I'll buy the appropriate hub for an 11 speed (more likely given the need for smaller gearing).

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    255
    Understood. The link didn't show up for some reason the first time. Steve knows his stuff, I'll defer to him in a heartbeat. If he pulled it off on the same rig and said it can be done, you can take that to the bank. Sorry for the conflict... it's more of what's a "what shouldn't work on paper but does" vs. "Yep, it fits."

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    I dig, no conflict. I have been out of the MTB scene for 25 years so I am deferring to one and all for information. I'll post my findings when the gear gets here.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    368
    I think that 8-12spd Shimano drivetrains all use the same Shimano HG freehub type. In terms of gearing I find kids need low gearing but not necessarily a wide spread as they rarely have the torque to pull high gears. Remember the bigger the largest rear cog the lower the mech will be and the larger the spread the longer cage it'll have to have. With 20" and smaller wheels a mech to suit a 50t cog is practically dragging the ground.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    It depends on the kid pilot. On a good downhill run my kid is def in the lowest gear at times, especially on larger jump runs because his wheels are so small, he has to pedal while I can just coast through it. That extra speed means he'll clear the gap/table even if he screws up a pump. The reality is that a lot of kids really rip these days and their gearing needs are pretty much the same as an adult, tho they need that lower gearing even more due to lack of power. We've been on a 10sp 20" 11-36 GX Spawn YamaJama and it definitely doesn't have the range necessary. However as you pointed out, the limitation is the RD hanger and tiny wheels. On his next bike, a 24" tho...it'll def have an 11-46 with a med-cage and 30t and be just fine on the climbs and downs too.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    On his next bike, a 24" tho...it'll def have an 11-46 with a med-cage and 30t and be just fine on the climbs and downs too.
    That's what I am talking about here, GT Stomper 24", 11-46, 30 up front and medium cage SLX.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    368
    Ah that makes sense! Our trails are virtually all on the steeper, and rocky/techy side so it just works out that pedaling going fast down hill doesn't happen too often. My little guy also races bmx and is happy to spin the cranks quite fast. He is also 4yrs old so I'm not really trying to get him to hit warp speeds yet.

    You might look into 10 tooth drivers (sram) for a little more top end.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    Quote Originally Posted by defdes View Post
    That's what I am talking about here, GT Stomper 24", 11-46, 30 up front and medium cage SLX.
    Yeah that will be nice. You can prob go straight to XT even. Jenson has that drivetrain at like 167$ minus cranks and a chain. Pretty good deal as it's around 35% per piece.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    The 11-46 arrived before anything else, but I am glad to say it fits no problem. Thanks for the advice!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kids 11 spd Gruppo-hub11.jpg  


  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    Quote Originally Posted by defdes View Post
    The 11-46 arrived before anything else, but I am glad to say it fits no problem. Thanks for the advice!
    Beauty. Which cassette is that? The jump to the big ring looks like a lot. (I'm plannjng on doing the same thing to next bike)

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    It's the SLX CS-M7000 and you are absolutely correct, that jump does look huge, I just compared it to the Sunrace 11-46 on my Salsa Timberjack and the difference is much greater, I hope it's a non issue.

    EDIT: I just read a number of posts about this, and is why most go with the Sunrace. I wish I had seen them sooner.
    I think the largest cog on his bike now is a 38, so he'll actually be loosing something with this set up until the large jump to the granny gear. Kind of a bummer, really.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    You could just return it? What is the last couple of gears on the sunrace look like? Maybe 40 to 46?

    NM. Sunrace is: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-46

    I think that one looks to be 36 to 46 maybe for the last two.
    Last edited by svinyard; 12-01-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by defdes View Post
    It's the SLX CS-M7000 and you are absolutely correct, that jump does look huge, I just compared it to the Sunrace 11-46 on my Salsa Timberjack and the difference is much greater, I hope it's a non issue.

    Its a total non issue.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    I am definitely new to these gearsets so correct me if I am wrong, but I can see the jump being less of an issue for an adult, but for a 9 year old?
    Loosing a tooth on your second gear ( formerly your first) and then a big jump like that would be more difficult for little crankers, wouldn't it? I would think, 37-41-46, or something like it would make most efficient use of the 11 speeds.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    846
    No problem for my kids

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    You could just return it? What is the last couple of gears on the sunrace look like? Maybe 40 to 46?

    NM. Sunrace is: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-46

    I think that one looks to be 36 to 46 maybe for the last two.
    It's 37 to 46. The Sunrace gearing looks more reasonable, I'll box and return.
    So am I looking for Sunrace model CSMX8?
    Last edited by defdes; 12-02-2018 at 06:51 PM.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,207
    Smart move. I haven't ridden it but the reviews all seem to mention that the jump isn't great. Kids will ride whatever and often not notice what we do but might as well get something better. That's the model but there is also a CSMX80 too. No idea what the difference is. Maybe its color?

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    969
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher2011 View Post
    Understood. The link didn't show up for some reason the first time. Steve knows his stuff, I'll defer to him in a heartbeat. If he pulled it off on the same rig and said it can be done, you can take that to the bank. Sorry for the conflict... it's more of what's a "what shouldn't work on paper but does" vs. "Yep, it fits."
    Not sure how much I know my stuff vs trying lots of stuff .... (and occaisionally being reasonably handy with metal working tools).

    Mostly I think it's just a philosophy of trying stuff and setting things up so trying stuff isn't prohibitively expensive. Quite often the plan B and plan C are what gives me the luxury of trying. Plan B is nearly always if it doesn't work it is usable on another bike.

    I've found absolutes to be wrong in both what shouldn't have worked but does and should have wired but doesn't (probably less that way). What I would say are there are few absolutes until you TRY ... what worked for me on a 20XX brand Y might not work for you... or might need some inventive workaround.


    Plan B:
    I guess my fundamental philosophy has always been to have interchangeable parts between my bikes and the kids bikes... that way if I do order something that doesn't work I have a spare/replacement for another bike.

    The way I do it I think it ends up cheaper... in that when I see an offer I'll order say 4 chains.... of 6 sets of brake pads etc.

    Applying that to drive chains... all our bikes run either Shimano 10sp or 11sp
    I have one hub 135mm that won't take a specific (E13) 10sp expander but it does take a 11sp..??

    i-SPEC ... I know its neat... retrospectively however it conflicts my reusable philosophy.


    Gearing:

    I guess gearing is determined as much by what you ride and also riding style.
    I've never found a real use for a cassette bigger than a 40 or 42 on my own 27.5 wheels or on Jnr's 24.

    That is for 99% of my riding time its perfectly adequate.. Depending where you live and the kids riding style YMMV... What I did find is kids even more than adults will use whatever is the easiest gear to turn... and this is not always the easiest in terms of an entire climb. (especially on technical climbs when lack of momentum can be a issue)

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post

    I've found absolutes to be wrong in both what shouldn't have worked but does and should have wired but doesn't (probably less that way). What I would say are there are few absolutes until you TRY ... what worked for me on a 20XX brand Y might not work for you... or might need some inventive workaround.

    In that vein, a number of the "Q & A's" on Amazon, the "A's" being from the seller, stated that the above Shimano cassette would not work on a 8 speed hub. Had I read that before ordering I might have been swayed not to.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    Smart move. I haven't ridden it but the reviews all seem to mention that the jump isn't great. Kids will ride whatever and often not notice what we do but might as well get something better. That's the model but there is also a CSMX80 too. No idea what the difference is. Maybe its color?
    Looks like small difference in weight from one more alloy cog on the csmx80:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...r-1078514.html

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    The Sunrace installed and all fit as hoped.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kids 11 spd Gruppo-sunrace.jpg  


  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    368
    Nice! that'll give the little one a huge gear spread!

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: defdes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by BikePilot1 View Post
    Nice! that'll give the little one a huge gear spread!
    Yes, quite the rim to large sprocket ratio there, I kind of forgot about that aspect. When I used to vintage race (cars) we were limited in our gearing and tires, but the right combo of tire aspect ratio and differential could get you some nice low gearing if needed for a certain track.

Similar Threads

  1. Air 9C Gruppo?
    By velocanman in forum Niner Bikes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-12-2014, 10:40 AM
  2. SPD cleats are SPD cleats are SPD cleats or are they?
    By far raider in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-03-2012, 12:49 PM
  3. X9 gruppo w/ 29er
    By joe3rp in forum SRAM
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 04:07 PM
  4. 8 spd shifter, 9 spd derailleur, 9 spd chain?
    By Fastskiguy in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-03-2006, 07:40 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-25-2004, 09:04 AM

Members who have read this thread: 53

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.