Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers

    I'm in the market for a new long travel 29er and am suffering from analysis paralysis. My current ride is a V1 Following that I've had for over 2 years. The bike has taken my riding to a new level, and I definitely grew a lot as a rider with it. Now it's time for the next chapter.

    Initially I thought I'd buy the Wreckoning, no question. But recently a new breed of LT 29ers came along and now rethinking my conclusion. I'm talking about bikes like Santa Cruz Hightower LT, Rocky Mountain Instinct BC Edition, Orbea Rallon, etc.

    What I'm looking for is a one-quiver bike. Living in the PNW, I love to sneak over to Canada as often as I can. This new LT 29er has to be able to handle the Whistler Bike Park, as well as do tight, pedally trails such as those in Squamish or the North Shore.

    I demoed an XL Wrecker at Galbraith back in March and found it to be awesome, except on the climbs. I wasn't really getting along with the Vivid Air in the back. Unfortunately, Galbraith doesn't have much tight stuff that I could try. Also demoed an XL SC HTLT, which I took to Fromme, Seymour, Galby and Chuckanuts. The XL was too big for me and I struggled on the tight trails in Fromme. Also it caused me some weird hip pain. I'd definitely like to try the L since I like the look of the bike more than the Wrecker.

    For reference, I'm 6'1", 175lbs, currently riding a size L following (which I find a bit short). Those of you with Wreckers, how do you find them to be all around? I know they smash pandas on the flowy, smooth trails. But how are they when thing slow down a bit and get janky? If any of you tried these new LT 29ers, I'd love to hear what you thought of them.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by skileh; 10-02-2017 at 04:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Have you considered a Canfield riot or a balance although the balance is 27.5


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    You've mentioned some good bikes. The Rallon is getting some serious love out there. Skinnybex gave a great review on the Rallon in the Orbea threads. GO check it out. He also owns a Yeti 5.5 and has demoed the Wrecker with other LT 29ers and gives his opinion.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/orbea/orbea-r...w-1056312.html

  4. #4
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    I think the Wrecker can/will be a great bike for your needs, however I believe there are a few things you have to be mindful of with it. First, I (and others) have not been blown away by the performance of either the Vivid Air or the Monarch plus. The 11.6 would probably be the best option for you out of the gate. Other possibilities would be going to a Cane Creek DB Air with the climb switch which a friend of mine (as well as the guys at Evil) did. This does wonders for the Wrecker's climbing ability which IMHO is decent already. I actually am taking my Monarch and having the SSD conversion from Avalanche done for it and will report back.

    Second and maybe even more important is you really have to be spot on with the sizing to have the geometry work for the ideal pedaling position on Evils. At your height, I'd definitely go with an XL and simply run a shorter stem (32-40mm).

    Finally, I'd like to see Evil come up with a replacement forward link for the new trunion mounted shocks (and obviously the correct length shock for it). On the Calling and the New Following MB, the Super Deluxe shocks work way better than the anything else from Rock Shox. Alternatively, I'd love to see RS offer non-metric versions of the Super Deluxe aftermarket. We'll see.

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  5. #5
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    I've been looking at 29ers including some LT models. My only comment on the list the OP provided is the RM Instinct BC Ed has a BB around 14" depending on what tires you run. That's great for pedalling over chunk, but not so great for cornering. Just something to factor into the decision making process depending on your trails and riding style.

    I demo'd a Wreck up in Cumby and it pedalled really well for a LT 29er. In the slow and janky sections of trail I rode it was fine, but for sure not the bike I would pick if that was most of my riding. Once speeds picked up it was in its element and a total trail destroyer as you would expect.
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    I've got a Pushed Wreck (ACS/11.6) and like you said, it destroys downhills. But for some 3 hour 3K+ fire road grinds uphill, I've been struggling. Demo'd a Following MB in Sedona and although the suspension wasn't set up properly for me, it was nice to have something that was a better climber.

    But I will say after riding the MB, I did wish it had a tad more travel. Got me thinking something in the 135/140mm rear travel would be better suited for ups and downs. Hoping the try the Transition Sentinel at some point.

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    Spez Enduro 29

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    the norco range 29 c1 looks really good too, perfect build kit.

  9. #9
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    My feeling is that the Wreck pedals great for a long-travel 29er. I own a Wreck w/11.6 and a Following, and have previously had a Nomad, HD3, Mach6 etc.

    I think the Wreck pedals as well as any 160mm bike can reasonably be expected to, and comparably to the Nomad, HD3 and Mach6. Honestly I don't think you can make a 160mm bike that pedals like a 120, at least not without suspension lockouts. The more active the suspension (e.g. when running the 11.6) the more it'll move when you pedal, plain and simple. And the Wreck/11.6 is going to be a 32+lb bike if shod with appropriate tires.

    That said, I pedaled that very bike up the Mt. Sproat/Lord of the Squirrels loop in Whistler (25+ miles, 5000' of climbing). It did fine, not as sprightly as a Following but got it done. Next day I hit the bike park and never felt under-gunned.

    I could see the Wreck as a "one bike quiver." I could also see the Following as the same. OF COURSE the Wreck is less poppy & playful & efficient, the Following is less confident in steep gnar. Great as these (and and most modern) bikes are, there are always compromises. My point is that the idea of a "one bike quiver" to mean a bike that does everything as well as it can be done is apocryphal. But you definitely CAN pedal a Wreckoning up monster climbs.

  10. #10
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    Great feedback, thanks everyone!

    Rev. 14, I've been following skinnybex's reviews, and find them insightful. Really like the look of the Rallon, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to demo one here in WA. Also, based on their website the frame costs a whopping $3,999!!! If that's really the case then the Orbea is a no-go.

    I've also been following LCW, and his adventure from a Following to an HTLT. According to him the HTLT climbs better than the Following. As long as I can pedal whatever bike I get up a 4K climb, and still have energy to ride down, I'm good. I really need to try that size L HTLT.

    Daleydouble, what's your turf? With riding here being mostly a big climb, followed by a big descent, I still want to have enough energy to enjoy the down after the up.

    My plan is to get a frame and build the bike how I want. I already have a 29er 160mm 36 RC2, so there's really no going back now. The Range 29 seems nice, although I never cared for Norco's aesthetics. Does it come as a frame only? Couldn't find that on their website.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    The Range 29 seems nice, although I never cared for Norco's aesthetics. Does it come as a frame only? Couldn't find that on their website.
    Norco Bicycles

    $3500 Canada Bucks for a frame + shock.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    ...The Range 29 seems nice, although I never cared for Norco's aesthetics...
    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_26.jpeg

    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_2a.jpeg

    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_28.jpeg

    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_27.jpeg



    What's not like about that?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #13
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    This site is still the shittiest site in the western civilized world for attaching photos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    This site is still the shittiest site in the western civilized world for attaching photos.
    Agreed...what's up with that?


    I'd REALLY like to see evil come out with a bike between the following and wreck with a slightly steeper st° while not getting crazy with the wheelbase. Ultimate trail machine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Norco Bicycles

    $3500 Canada Bucks for a frame + shock.
    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_2b.jpeg

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    What's not like about that?
    Honestly I have a hard time getting enthusiastic about Norco. It's like the nice girl next door you know you should ask out on a date, but instead you end up with someone EVIL and let's be honest she's either Following you home and she doesn't know your address..#Stalker....or there's a Wreckoning when she sees you with another lady.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Honestly I have a hard time getting enthusiastic about Norco. It's like the nice girl next door you know you should ask out on a date, but instead you end up with someone EVIL and let's be honest she's either Following you home and she doesn't know your address..#Stalker....or there's a Wreckoning when she sees you with another lady.
    Bahahahahahaha!!!

    Honestly though, I don't get the Norco hate. There is nothing I see aesthetically displeasing about that bike. $9999 CDN though. That's a lot of cash by anyone's standards.

    There are so many Norcos on the trails in my area, maybe I am just used to their hideousness. Not sure.

    If anyone knows how to delete "attached thumbnails", let me know.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_1d.jpg  

    Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-fullsizeoutput_25.jpg  


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Honestly though, I don't get the Norco hate.
    There is a big difference between lack of enthusiasm with throwing big-$$ at something as personal as a bike and hating something. I don't hate Norco or their bikes, but ya I never ever find myself fantasizing about owning one. That's all...

    They make a solid product. It's a practical choice for a LT 29er no question.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    There is a big difference between lack of enthusiasm with throwing big-$$ at something as personal as a bike and hating something. I don't hate Norco or their bikes, but ya I never ever find myself fantasizing about owning one. That's all...
    Fair enough. That was very poor wording on my part. Apologies.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Fair enough. That was very poor wording on my part. Apologies.
    No worries at all. There are several bikes and other bike related products that I think are amazing and most of the people I ride with show no interest in. I get the frustration. Totally.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Honestly I have a hard time getting enthusiastic about Norco. It's like the nice girl next door you know you should ask out on a date, but instead you end up with someone EVIL and let's be honest she's either Following you home and she doesn't know your address..#Stalker....or there's a Wreckoning when she sees you with another lady.
    This made me giggle. I keep eyeing the Wreckoning. Way more bike than I need for a daily basis, but a Following isn't enough for the rowdy days.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  22. #22
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    welp, looks like my google-fu skills are non-existent today. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

    Norco's rocker, and the ugly bolts on it don't do it for me. Neither does the area around the rear axle, but I see they worked on that for 2018. But I swear, as soon as you cross the border here, all you see are Norcos, Rockies, and Giants. Whereas in the states it's all Transitions, Evils and Santa Cruzes. I'd be really interested in throwing a leg over the Range. If it rides great, looks can be forgiven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    My feeling is that the Wreck pedals great for a long-travel 29er. I own a Wreck w/11.6 and a Following, and have previously had a Nomad, HD3, Mach6 etc.

    I think the Wreck pedals as well as any 160mm bike can reasonably be expected to, and comparably to the Nomad, HD3 and Mach6. Honestly I don't think you can make a 160mm bike that pedals like a 120, at least not without suspension lockouts. The more active the suspension (e.g. when running the 11.6) the more it'll move when you pedal, plain and simple. And the Wreck/11.6 is going to be a 32+lb bike if shod with appropriate tires.

    That said, I pedaled that very bike up the Mt. Sproat/Lord of the Squirrels loop in Whistler (25+ miles, 5000' of climbing). It did fine, not as sprightly as a Following but got it done. Next day I hit the bike park and never felt under-gunned.

    I could see the Wreck as a "one bike quiver." I could also see the Following as the same. OF COURSE the Wreck is less poppy & playful & efficient, the Following is less confident in steep gnar. Great as these (and and most modern) bikes are, there are always compromises. My point is that the idea of a "one bike quiver" to mean a bike that does everything as well as it can be done is apocryphal. But you definitely CAN pedal a Wreckoning up monster climbs.
    Ok this right here is exactly what I wanted to hear! I did exactly what you just described, word for word, with my Following a month ago. Except, that I did feel under-gunned in the bike park. On the flow trails it was fine, but the tech trails is what left me wanting a bigger bike. When I shoot up to Canada for a weekend, I only want to bring one bike with me. I want to hit up Squamish on the way up, do some laps in the park, and then go ride Howler, all on the same bike. I'm just tired of spending money on sub-par for the money DH bike rentals, but can't justify purchasing a DH bike.

    Maybe a 140mm 29er is the way to go here. If only Evil came out with something like. Sacrifice the insurgent for a full 29er portfolio. One can wish...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    ...I swear, as soon as you cross the border here, all you see are Norcos, Rockies, and Giants...
    From what I can see, Norcos are by far the most common bike on the trails in my area north of the border. Santa Cruzs are seen quite often as well. There are a fair amount of Rockies and Konas. And a smattering of the rest.

    Evil is not having an easy time penetrating the Canadian market in terms of locking down LBSs. I wish that wasn't the case. I have not seen a single Evil on the trails here and I am in the mountains on average, every second day. Not a single Transition either, for that matter.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Ok this right here is exactly what I wanted to hear! I did exactly what you just described, word for word, with my Following a month ago. Except, that I did feel under-gunned in the bike park. On the flow trails it was fine, but the tech trails is what left me wanting a bigger bike. When I shoot up to Canada for a weekend, I only want to bring one bike with me. I want to hit up Squamish on the way up, do some laps in the park, and then go ride Howler, all on the same bike. I'm just tired of spending money on sub-par for the money DH bike rentals, but can't justify purchasing a DH bike.

    Maybe a 140mm 29er is the way to go here. If only Evil came out with something like. Sacrifice the insurgent for a full 29er portfolio. One can wish...
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Great feedback, thanks everyone!

    Daleydouble, what's your turf? With riding here being mostly a big climb, followed by a big descent, I still want to have enough energy to enjoy the down after the up.
    I've been on a 6 week tour of Colorado and hit everything from the front range to Fruita. But I'm Marin based most of the time with frequent trips to SC and Annadel. Hoping to get up to D-Ville, Ashland/Stokeridge in a few weeks too.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by daleydouble View Post
    I've been on a 6 week tour of Colorado and hit everything from the front range to Fruita. But I'm Marin based most of the time with frequent trips to SC and Annadel. Hoping to get up to D-Ville, Ashland/Stokeridge in a few weeks too.
    I live in Tahoe and own the Wreck. If I lived in the bay I'd own the Following in a heartbeat. If I could have a second bike up here it'd be the following as well!

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    Just a thought: having the suspension tuned appropriately (i.e. Push, Avalanche, etc), will give the bike a better pedaling feel. Personally, I prefer the feeling coils....they tend to ride higher in the stroke and have more mid stroke support. My last four bikes:

    Niner WF0--->140mm--->stock suspension

    Yeti SB6c-->152mm--->Float X to 11.6 made the bike pedal incredibly. Fox 36 RC2 damper to avalanche damper kept the front end from diving, giving a more balanced feel. Went uphill rediculously well.

    2017 Enduro 650b-->170mm--->wouldnt support conversion to 11.6. Had the Ohlins shock revalved, added oil (like adding bands), running it over pressuriezed and in the pedal platform, it will still squat excessively, so much that it would make the front tire light resulting in washouts on flat pedally turns when laying down the gas. Had the same Fox fork it worked flawlessly.

    2017 Wrecker-->161mm--->Never ran it with an air shock....however my GF did run hers with a Float X2...had to keep it in the pedal lockout mode 75% of the time. We are both now back on our 11.6, she thinks it pedals as well as her Yeti SB5c, and I don't think mine gives up anything to my SB6c. I have the Push coil in my 2018 fork. Again, the midstroke support keeps the front up and you don't feel excessive dive.

    I guess that is a long way to say appropriately tuned suspension trumps travel.....

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rondre3000 View Post
    Yeti SB5.5c

    Seriously, try one.

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    Agreed!! I did a 3 day demo on a Wreckoning. It pedaled just fine going uphill, but felt a bit sluggish. It was a beast descending chunky techinical terrain, but I had some trouble laying it over in turns (only rode it in the "low" position). It would get there but I had to be pretty intentional about making it happen. The SB5.5 feels much more peppy on climbs and has incredible traction. Not as capable at blasting downhill through the chunk as the Wreckoning, but is certainly no slouch and, at least for me, it is much easier to turn. It goes into the turn with a lot less effort and feels much more comfortable. Quite frankly I really wanted to like the Wreckoning more, but as a do-it-all everyday, every-trail bike, the Yeti SB5.5 was the clear choice for me.

    UNT

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Ok this right here is exactly what I wanted to hear! I did exactly what you just described, word for word, with my Following a month ago. Except, that I did feel under-gunned in the bike park. On the flow trails it was fine, but the tech trails is what left me wanting a bigger bike. When I shoot up to Canada for a weekend, I only want to bring one bike with me. I want to hit up Squamish on the way up, do some laps in the park, and then go ride Howler, all on the same bike. I'm just tired of spending money on sub-par for the money DH bike rentals, but can't justify purchasing a DH bike.

    Maybe a 140mm 29er is the way to go here. If only Evil came out with something like. Sacrifice the insurgent for a full 29er portfolio. One can wish...
    Yeah I live in Seattle and ride the local trails around here, plus Galby, Capitol Forest, and occasional trips to Whistler. So I think I'm doing some similar trails to you.

    The Wreckoning does a great job on long climbs. A shock you can lock out is definitely a positive here, as with nearly any bike in this travel category. But for the kinds of climbs we have here (put your head down and suffer for an hour) it does great. Flip the switch & turn the pedals.

    I currently have both the original Monarch and an 11/6. I swap these out (takes ~30 seconds) somewhat regularly, depending on application and mood.

    The one issue I would have in having this as a "quiver of one" bike is that it's a total DH shred machine. Wreck+11/6 is awesome at Whistler, but on trails that are more flowy and less steep, it kind of dumbs them down to a point that they lose some of their fun. That's where the Following really shines.

    For what you're saying you do, I would seriously consider a Following MB with a 140mm fork. I would get a coil shock, but keep the Superdelux. Put the coil on for park days, keep the SD for other stuff.

  31. #31
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    Have you considered a Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistola (130mm rear) or Smash (140mm rear, but truly rides bigger than 140)? Both would be excellent with the RS Super Deluxe Coil and a 140-150mm fork.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    It seems that the terms "rides bigger than an Xmm bike" and "bottomless for an Xmm travel bike" are used a lot these days. I don't question the accuracy of those statements, and in comparison to the bikes if yester year, I am sure the authors are on to something. To translate it, it's not the travel, it's the quality. Same goes for the wrecker....it rides bigger than a 161mm bike. I have also never understood a muted trail....go faster. There's nothing muted about a top fuel drag car going 300 mph on a straight, flat road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    I have also never understood a muted trail....go faster.
    Going faster isn't always an option. If you ride with others you are stuck with the group pace or you might as well be on a solo ride. You may not have the 300mph engine to go pedal to the metal all ride.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    It seems that the terms "rides bigger than an Xmm bike" and "bottomless for an Xmm travel bike" are used a lot these days. I don't question the accuracy of those statements, and in comparison to the bikes if yester year, I am sure the authors are on to something. To translate it, it's not the travel, it's the quality.
    I completely agree and I wouldn't have suggested if I hadn't actually ridden the Smash myself. It pedals like a nice 140mm bike (not plush, more firm and sprightly. A coil would suit it well.) but it does still maintain pretty dang good bit hit capabilities. I rode mine on some sizeable drops and never felt bottom. The o-ring says I hit bottom, but I never felt it.

    Yeti's ride similarly to me. An SB5 felt amazingly deeper on drops than it's 127mm of travel would suggest. I haven't ridden an SB5.5, but I have to think it's 143mm of rear travel would behave like the SB5 and ride 'bigger' than it's travel.

    For me, it's the mid-stroke behavior that dictates this. I've ridden 130mm bikes that wallow or blow through travel (Kona Satori), essentially making it ride 'shorter'. On the contrary, I've ridden a 150mm bike (Evil Insurgent) that felt like it would always have your back, no matter what you hucked off of.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    I have also never understood a muted trail....go faster. There's nothing muted about a top fuel drag car going 300 mph on a straight, flat road.
    I'd argue that it's not all about speed, i.e. riding a trail as fast as possible is not always the most FUN way to ride it. On the Following, I love the progressive, poppy feel of the suspension. You can get that bike airborne on tiny lips, water bars, logs, unsuspecting riding buddies etc., and I love nothing more than frequent-flying my way down an otherwise mellow trail. The extra travel and longer WB on the Wreckoning make this harder, and the extremely active suspension of the 11.6 harder still. When I switch back to my Wreck I usually have a few moments where I go to pop off something and the suspension just eats it up. Not saying the bike can't fly, it just takes larger features and more body english. That's great for high-speed chunder busting, but not always the most FUN, especially on mellower trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    For me, it's the mid-stroke behavior that dictates this.
    yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    riding a trail as fast as possible is not always the most FUN way to ride it.
    different strokes for different folks. i have never ridden a trail (or anything on two wheels for that matter) that got less fun the faster I rode, haha. popping off of something that was once a single becomes an opportunity to turn it into a double or hip it into the side of the trail!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Yeah I live in Seattle and ride the local trails around here, plus Galby, Capitol Forest, and occasional trips to Whistler. So I think I'm doing some similar trails to you.

    The Wreckoning does a great job on long climbs. A shock you can lock out is definitely a positive here, as with nearly any bike in this travel category. But for the kinds of climbs we have here (put your head down and suffer for an hour) it does great. Flip the switch & turn the pedals.

    I currently have both the original Monarch and an 11/6. I swap these out (takes ~30 seconds) somewhat regularly, depending on application and mood.

    The one issue I would have in having this as a "quiver of one" bike is that it's a total DH shred machine. Wreck+11/6 is awesome at Whistler, but on trails that are more flowy and less steep, it kind of dumbs them down to a point that they lose some of their fun. That's where the Following really shines.

    For what you're saying you do, I would seriously consider a Following MB with a 140mm fork. I would get a coil shock, but keep the Superdelux. Put the coil on for park days, keep the SD for other stuff.
    Thanks for the honest report. Based on the feedback, I'm thinking the Wreckoning might be a bit too much for me. Sure I'd love to shred down Predator without regard for line choice. However, I'd still like to have the nimbleness of the Following on the Alice Lake trails in Squamish. This thread really got me thinking about a 140mm bike, if I can find one I like.

    My current Following is set up with a 34 140mm fork. There is no point in me getting an MB. My dislike about Evils is the access to clean the rear shock. When I played with a Wrecker and the MB at Fanatik, the MB had worse access than the Wrecker.

    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Have you considered a Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistola (130mm rear) or Smash (140mm rear, but truly rides bigger than 140)? Both would be excellent with the RS Super Deluxe Coil and a 140-150mm fork.
    Just looked some more at the Smash and it looks rather interesting. However, the killer is the price! Frame costs $2100, which to me seems high for an Al bike. If I want to step up to a Super Deluxe RCT, add $295. For an orange color frame, add another $295. That's a whopping $2700 (rounded up) for an aluminum bike!!! Throw in two benjamins and I can get a carbon frame for that price. The value proposition is just not there for me.

    Canfield Toir looks dope, but they sold out of larges. Which is a shame b/c that price was great. Let's see what they drop for 2018.

    Definitely feeling like goldilocks over here, and can't say I like it.

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    Do you run your following in high or low with the 140mm fork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by momanmatt View Post
    Do you run your following in high or low with the 140mm fork?
    At the moment I don't recall, but I think I'm in high. I ran it in both modes with the 140mm and like both. Didn't notice a huge difference to be honest. Recently swapped out the stem from a 35mm to 50mm, which noticeably helped with stability (obviously). The rear shock definitely limits me somewhat. Have had a few harsh bottom outs. Another option might be to send it to Avy for a tune and keep the bike. But I won't lie, the consumerist in me is lusting for something new.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    My current Following is set up with a 34 140mm fork. There is no point in me getting an MB. My dislike about Evils is the access to clean the rear shock. When I played with a Wrecker and the MB at Fanatik, the MB had worse access than the Wrecker.
    Fair enough, it's your money of course! Personally I think the low-slung shock & hardware, and resulting low center of gravity, is one of the things that makes the Evils so fun.

    I would be MORE than happy to ride Predator or Whistler on a Following MB with a coil & a 140mm 36 or Lyrik. Honestly I feel like even that bike would be too much for a lot of the trails around here. I mean, there just aren't that many trails that I ride in the PNW that are seriously and continuously chunky and rocky. All these Evergreen/IMBA type trails tend to have some berms and flow with a few rough bits interspersed, so something like a Following seems ideal to me.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Just looked some more at the Smash and it looks rather interesting. However, the killer is the price! Frame costs $2100, which to me seems high for an Al bike. If I want to step up to a Super Deluxe RCT, add $295. For an orange color frame, add another $295. That's a whopping $2700 (rounded up) for an aluminum bike!!! Throw in two benjamins and I can get a carbon frame for that price. The value proposition is just not there for me.
    yeah, you do better buying complete builds with GG
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Thanks for the honest report. Based on the feedback, I'm thinking the Wreckoning might be a bit too much for me. Sure I'd love to shred down Predator without regard for line choice. However, I'd still like to have the nimbleness of the Following on the Alice Lake trails in Squamish. This thread really got me thinking about a 140mm bike, if I can find one I like.

    My current Following is set up with a 34 140mm fork. There is no point in me getting an MB. My dislike about Evils is the access to clean the rear shock. When I played with a Wrecker and the MB at Fanatik, the MB had worse access than the Wrecker.



    Just looked some more at the Smash and it looks rather interesting. However, the killer is the price! Frame costs $2100, which to me seems high for an Al bike. If I want to step up to a Super Deluxe RCT, add $295. For an orange color frame, add another $295. That's a whopping $2700 (rounded up) for an aluminum bike!!! Throw in two benjamins and I can get a carbon frame for that price. The value proposition is just not there for me.

    Canfield Toir looks dope, but they sold out of larges. Which is a shame b/c that price was great. Let's see what they drop for 2018.

    Definitely feeling like goldilocks over here, and can't say I like it.
    I'm a Riot/Toir owner and can't say enough good things about this bike. Those discounted frames went quick...but someone on the Riot page is selling their '17 large with a spare coil shock. Not bad at all if you consider the package. http://forums.mtbr.com/canfield/fs-2...s-1057486.html

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Just looked some more at the Smash and it looks rather interesting. However, the killer is the price! Frame costs $2100, which to me seems high for an Al bike. If I want to step up to a Super Deluxe RCT, add $295. For an orange color frame, add another $295. That's a whopping $2700 (rounded up) for an aluminum bike!!! Throw in two benjamins and I can get a carbon frame for that price. The value proposition is just not there for me.
    Handmade in the US in small batches is not the way to build stuff as cheaply as possible. That said I would just get a raw frame and save $295 for the PC. And I'd have no problem dropping $2500USD on it. At all. I'd also be happy to be supporting North American manufacturing.

    I chatted with them and they were willing to do some free mods to the frame for me. You just don't get that kind of service/options with a mass produced Taiwanese frame.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    To translate it, it's not the travel, it's the quality. Same goes for the wrecker....it rides bigger than a 161mm bike. I have also never understood a muted trail....go faster. There's nothing muted about a top fuel drag car going 300 mph on a straight, flat road.
    ^^^This. One of things I was worried about prior to getting some time on the Wrecker was that it would "mute" or dumb down average trails too much. That has not been my experience at all and in fact quite the opposite. Overall, up and down on my local trails and everywhere I am faster without even really trying on the Wreckoning. At the same time, I can still throw it around and pop it off of whatever. I had spent over a month on a demo Calling prior to my Wrecker arriving. I liked it so much I nearly canceled/changed my order. I'm glad I went with the Wreckoning as in the end I can still ride like a hooligan as the Calling encouraged me to do, but with my Wreck I can simply mow over everything at will if I like.

    "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

  45. #45
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    Riot appears back in stock in size L in both colors. Link colors are limited. That price is just stupid cheap...

  46. #46
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    This thread is perfect timing for me being in the same boat riding a V1. Loving the handling but want a bit more upfront and something better for the steeps without loosing that fun playful feel. I can deal with a slightly worse climbing rig, but killing the poppy-ness would suck.

    140~150 seems nice but dont want a bike that is not great at any one thing. I start thinking why not 27.5 @ 150-160 and playful...

    Staying with a 29er I think the Yeti 5.5 is looking real good as well...need to demo one

  47. #47
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    skilah: Awesome thread! I, too, am in the exact same conundrum - V1 Following and I want more squish/capability for the rocky chunder here in CO & trips to Moab. (I go X-low and feel bike turns better w/ 130 up front... killer handling!)

    I've been envisioning all year that I'll upgrade to the Wreck (+Push coils) when I had the cash... but now that I do and am ready to pull the trigger, I'm reading folks comments about pedaling efficiency, playfulness, etc much more seriously. I, too, am in the same analysis-paralysis!

    Given the conversation, I'm feeling that the Yeti5.5 may just be the right middle-ground. True it's 'only' 140mm (vs. 120 on the Following), but it does have a 160mm fork up front - and that's a huge difference. I can also put PUSH coils on Front/Rear, and maybe even put a works -1* angleset to make it a little more aggressive. Best of both worlds? (Light/climber + confidence-inspring/downhiller). And yes, Skinnybex (who's owned/rode all of these) swears up&down that it really is the do-it-all "1-Bike".

    The thing I worry about with the 5.5 is the leverage curve. I do *LOVE* the "S-curve" of Evil's suspension! Soft beginning for small bumps, great mid-stroke, and then the bottomless ramp to the end. This is a perfect match for a Coil (which is linear progression) which slightly softens the curve. But I understand that the Yeti's SI have a near linear curve... adding a coil to which makes for a super-linear response (aka = mush). That's my fear, anyways.

    I guess the only way to really know is demo... but the various viewpoints really help here.

  48. #48
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    Niner RIP9 29er is a sleeper and good sales can be had.

    Got my RIP9 alloy setup with a 160 Lyrik RCT3 and a -1* Works Components headset.

    66HTA, 75.7* STA. 160mm/150mm. Plush leverage curve (especially the initial small bump) and climbs fine for a 'big bike'.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  49. #49
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    Do the new niner rips have a more progressive rear suspension than the old ones? My 2013 feels a bit wallowy. CC has an slx/fox 36/stans wheel build for a good price that I could drop the -2* works headset from my 2013 into. I lean towards something else just to have a different feel.

  50. #50
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    FYI I have been trying both the 11.6 and a Fox Float X2 rear shock on my Wreckoning, and prefer the Float X2 as the weight, adjustability and playfulness makes for a more enjoyable bike on long rides & mellow terrain. I'm going to try the 11.6 one last time, but will most likely sell it. Traction is amazing but I prefer the characteristic of the air shocks these days.

    I live in Arizona and mainly ride Sedona, if I rode higher speed California trails and lift access I'd probably keep the Push shock.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wreckoning vs. other long travel 29ers-screen-shot-2017-11-02-9.34.56-pm.jpg  

    Last edited by nolson450; 11-02-2017 at 09:36 PM. Reason: added photo

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolson450 View Post
    FYI I have been trying both the 11.6 and a Fox Float X2 rear shock on my Wreckoning, and prefer the Float X2 as the weight, adjustability and playfulness makes for a more enjoyable bike on long rides & mellow terrain. I'm going to try the 11.6 one last time, but will most likely sell it. Traction is amazing but I prefer the characteristic of the air shocks these days.

    I live in Arizona and mainly ride Sedona, if I rode higher speed California trails and lift access I'd probably keep the Push shock.
    digging the x2 as well...now that its working

    heard a handful of peeps been having seal/ slurping issues (new 2018 x2's)

    My shock had some internal issues where one of the shims was marring the shaft and caused a seal to go bad, was getting slurping noise and lost all compression/rebound control...I was on a road trip when it happened so had a shop crack it open and they replaced the seal, so far its been working great since...otherwise would've been sent in for warranty...but will probably have to send it in for warranty eventually as the shop said it will most likely happen again after a few rides. But have a bunch of rides on it now and its still going strong so who knows...

    I think the damage might have happened when it was in lockout/firm mode during a climb since that was when it started making slurping noises...I have avoided using the lockout/firm mode since it was rebuilt.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skileh View Post
    Ok this right here is exactly what I wanted to hear! I did exactly what you just described, word for word, with my Following a month ago. Except, that I did feel under-gunned in the bike park. On the flow trails it was fine, but the tech trails is what left me wanting a bigger bike. When I shoot up to Canada for a weekend, I only want to bring one bike with me. I want to hit up Squamish on the way up, do some laps in the park, and then go ride Howler, all on the same bike. I'm just tired of spending money on sub-par for the money DH bike rentals, but can't justify purchasing a DH bike.

    Maybe a 140mm 29er is the way to go here. If only Evil came out with something like. Sacrifice the insurgent for a full 29er portfolio. One can wish...
    If you're not absolutely fixated on having to have a 29'er I highly recommend you demo a Nomad 4 with a coil shock. I realize this is an Evil forum so please hear me out....

    I was fortunate to spend a lot of time on a Wreckoning with both an 11/6 and an X2 last winter, but I ended up buying a N4 instead. I loved the Wreck but I found the N4 to be more playful and quicker on the tighter, slower Canada trails you reference (and that I ride), while also pedaling and climbing slightly better than the Wreck IMO. On the downs its as capable as the Wreck, and more capable than an Insurgent, which I also spent time on.

    N4's new rear suspension system and leverage curve is truly a game changer in SC's lineup, and I felt that design (and modern geo) combined with its 10mm extra travel front and rear made up a lot of the ground that you lose going from 29 to 27.5 in the rough stuff...

    And as a bonus, once you've pedalled up to and ridden down Howler and Lord of the Squirrels, and Whistler's West-Side trails and everything Squamish can throw at you, all you need to do is flip it into low and it becomes an awesome WBP bike too.

    My N4 works fine for me as a one-bike quiver but given that you already own the Following this would give you a killer two-bike quiver if you so chose...
    Last edited by SCJG; 11-04-2017 at 05:24 PM.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Evil is not having an easy time penetrating the Canadian market in terms of locking down LBSs. I wish that wasn't the case. I have not seen a single Evil on the trails here and I am in the mountains on average, every second day. Not a single Transition either, for that matter.
    I got a friend here in the U.S. who owns a shop and they sell Ibis, Giant, Santa Cruz, and Spec. He said when it comes to Evil, the wholesale price is so high that it can almost touch retail. So for shops, profit margins are pretty much nothing. So he told Evil he would pass. He said the brands that he currently carries, the wholesale price is much more generous for the shops ability to make a profit while giving the customer a good and fair deal. He told me that he can't see how anyone could carry Evil because they are just too expensive at the wholesale level. This could be the problem in Canada for LBS.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlhulit View Post
    Do the new niner rips have a more progressive rear suspension than the old ones? My 2013 feels a bit wallowy. CC has an slx/fox 36/stans wheel build for a good price that I could drop the -2* works headset from my 2013 into. I lean towards something else just to have a different feel.
    Yes. can't even compare them to the old RIPs. think a WFO with updated geo and pedals better.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Yes. can't even compare them to the old RIPs. think a WFO with updated geo and pedals better.
    I agree, the the Rip, well Rips! I owned a ‘17 for a brief time and owned 4 other prior model years. IMO I believe the DW link pedals more effiecently. Not that the Rip is bad though. The Rip and Jet have way better internal routing, especially for Di2. JMO.
    Peace sells, but who’s buying..

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    If you're not absolutely fixated on having to have a 29'er I highly recommend you demo a Nomad 4 with a coil shock. I realize this is an Evil forum so please hear me out....

    I was fortunate to spend a lot of time on a Wreckoning with both an 11/6 and an X2 last winter, but I ended up buying a N4 instead. I loved the Wreck but I found the N4 to be more playful and quicker on the tighter, slower Canada trails you reference (and that I ride), while also pedaling and climbing slightly better than the Wreck IMO. On the downs its as capable as the Wreck, and more capable than an Insurgent, which I also spent time on.

    N4's new rear suspension system and leverage curve is truly a game changer in SC's lineup, and I felt that design (and modern geo) combined with its 10mm extra travel front and rear made up a lot of the ground that you lose going from 29 to 27.5 in the rough stuff...

    And as a bonus, once you've pedalled up to and ridden down Howler and Lord of the Squirrels, and Whistler's West-Side trails and everything Squamish can throw at you, all you need to do is flip it into low and it becomes an awesome WBP bike too.

    My N4 works fine for me as a one-bike quiver but given that you already own the Following this would give you a killer two-bike quiver if you so chose...
    I'm semi fixated on 29ers. Mostly b/c I have a new Fox 36 29er fork to slap on a frame. But I agree with you, I think the N4 would be great for what I'm looking for. While in Whistler I had a chance to demo an N3 in the park and was blown away. It was so much lighter and more maneuverable then the DH bike. It felt super solid in the park, and I imagine it would feel the same on the valley trails. I'd need to swing a leg over the N4 to make sure, but I'm seriously contemplating trying a 27.5 instead. Good thing ski season is approaching.

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