Poor Wreckoning review- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Poor Wreckoning review

    A not so good Wreckoning review here.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...t-reviews/3121

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/20...-Sessions,2242

    After reading quite a few reviews recently about how poor the Wrecker is at climbing and how itís just a monster downhill bike Iím wondering if I have the right bike anymore?

    Thinking Iíd be better on a following or something 135/140mm for big 35km 5000ft climbing days.

    Thoughts?

    Neil

  2. #2
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    I didn't think it was too bad of a review. But yeah, it says not for the bigger days (ie 5000' climbing).

    Of course, I'm biased, but it's not a bad climber, in fact its probably one of the best climbing 160mm travel, 31lb+ bikes I've ridden. But yeah, compared to shorter travel bikes, its not a good climber.

    IMO, its a good "big" bike in a 2-bike stable. The following MB may be better if you are looking for 1 bike for everything including the big 5k days.

  3. #3
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    The Calling is calling
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  4. #4
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    In Bike magazine's 2017 bible, the guys testing had quite a difference of opinion, they were very impressed with how the Wreckoning pedalled. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NIK9yffjRK8g I guess to each their own.

  5. #5
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    I think I will keep watching the bible tests. Hate it when you love I bike and somebody gives you reasons to doubt it.

    Iím always chasing the next bigger better thing. We all know what the Wreckoning is and isnít.

    I guess where it lacks in climbing ability I can offset this by getting as fit as possible.

  6. #6
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    Surely Evil must be working on a new bike in between the following and wrecker?

  7. #7
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    You guys that have ridden both the Push and Monarch Plus, which climbs better? I was wondering if that is part of the climbing criticism because my experience is the opposite. Hands down the Wrecking with a Monarch Plus climbs better than my Pivot 429SL cross country race bike when it gets steep and/or technical. For a long slow climb the 429 might be better due to weight and lighter less aggressive tires, but that's pretty much expected. I just did a 25 mile 3500' day (all singletrack no fire roads) with a good deal of technical climbing last Saturday on the Wreck. By the end I was getting tired and sloppy, but I made every technical climb because the Wreck pedaled well, never lost traction, never wandered and held the line very well.

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    Donít only believe what your read, believe what you ride!

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    I think it climbs almost as well as my v1 Following.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    You guys that have ridden both the Push and Monarch Plus, which climbs better? I was wondering if that is part of the climbing criticism because my experience is the opposite. Hands down the Wrecking with a Monarch Plus climbs better than my Pivot 429SL cross country race bike when it gets steep and/or technical. For a long slow climb the 429 might be better due to weight and lighter less aggressive tires, but that's pretty much expected. I just did a 25 mile 3500' day (all singletrack no fire roads) with a good deal of technical climbing last Saturday on the Wreck. By the end I was getting tired and sloppy, but I made every technical climb because the Wreck pedaled well, never lost traction, never wandered and held the line very well.
    The climbing ding probably has a lot to do with running the coil shock. It's good to hear some counter points to the bad review. There's a long test of 5 similar bikes, including the Wreckoning. They tested it with the Push shock instead of with the Monarch. What's strange is they thought the bike was slow, yet one of the riders was within one second of the fastest time on it. The video is worth a watch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwUaLKUTDjs

  11. #11
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    I think a lot of how evil bikes climb for you is directly proportional to your inseam. Shortish inseam and the seat tube angle is not a big deal. Personally I don't miss climbing from over the rear axle.
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  12. #12
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    What I found strange about the review is that both riders predicted based on their rides that the Wreckoning was one of the slower bikes on the downhill but it was barely edged out as the fastest bike by one rider when the times were revealed. What that tells me is that the bike is deceptively fast. Also, since perception is not always reality and the they didn't time the climb, are their subjective thoughts on climbing objectively valid? Again, since they didn't time the climbing section, we don't know.

    What I do know from comparing my Wreckoning to my Following based on Strava is that the Wreckoning is a faster bike on all technical features, whether up or down. Where you can feel the difference is on long sustained fire road type climbs and long mild grade incline single track; this is where the Following is better. Overall, I am very pleased to have replaced my Following with the Wreckoning.

  13. #13
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    Have just got one ride on the Wreckoning so far, with a little over 1000' of climbing. A totally unscientific observation is that it climbs at least as good as my 5 year old 120mm 29er that weighs about 2lbs less. With that said, it's never been the bike holding me back on climbs.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, eff those Vital dorks...

    ...hahaha!!! However, regarding their review here is my two cents after riding my Wreck for the last 8 mos.

    1. First, while I am sure the 11.6 is swell I personally prefer an air shock on mine for all around riding. I think the bike becomes more responsive without losing any DH capability. I have a Monarch with an Avalanche SSD mod which simply rules.
    2. Second, I've ridden/demoed all of the bikes that Vital tested save the Sentinel. My Wreck dusted all of them both up and down. When I demo anything I will ride my bike followed by the demo on the exact same trail. Some were fun, but nothing beat my Strava times on my Wrecker. I will admit that Speshy's SWAT thingy is awesome and I'm surprised more companies haven't come out with their own version.
    3. The Rallon, their "winner" (even though they maintained "lawyer doublespeak" without declaring a "winner") has a much more forward and higher position than the Wreck despite having similar numbers. I actually thought it felt more twitchy and less planted than the Wrecker as such. I agree with Vital in that it takes quite a bit of tweaking to get the suspension to feel good on the Orbea. Even when I was not initially blown away by the Monarch, my Evil still rode phenomenally well.
    4. Finally, as mentioned above the top speed in Vital's "race" run that the Orbea nabbed was only 0.226 seconds faster than the Evil. Those bro's may not have liked the Evil, but the numbers don't lie.


    FWIW, since I became a Stravasshole several years ago the Wreck is the fastest bike I've ridden both up and down. This is after demoing and riding just about every bike out there. In the end, ride whatever turns you on. However, I will not be trading in my Wreck over what Vital has to say.
    "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

  15. #15
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    Their comments about the 11.6 getting ďoverwhelmedĒ werenít very helpful. Could that be a lack of tuning? Maybe the two riders werenít as close in weight as they suggested? Was it the trail they showed which was flowy, bermy with some g outs and jumps but nowhere near the chunk the bike loves?

    I also don't think it was 31.5 lbs with a 11.6 More like 32.5+ but it's their scale and reputation. Just color me skeptical.

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  16. #16
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    I would not worry about your bike if you like it. Just because it did not pedal as well as the other bikes does not mean it will not work for you. it could still be good. All things are relative.

    With that being said I find vital yo be stop on with their reviews and set the bar.
    Last edited by Random Dude; 03-09-2018 at 11:10 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E View Post
    The Calling is calling
    Maybe. I was looking into one until I read the vital review. They rated it a 3 for climbing (also gave reasons) and gave the pivot 5.5 (a bike I am also looking into) at 4.5 BUT rated all other aspects the same. this is just one opinion... but they are pretty trust worthy and one of the few places doing real reviews with negative comments.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    Maybe. I was looking into one until I read the vital review. They rated it a 3 for climbing (also gave reasons) and gave the pivot 5.5 (a bike I am also looking into) at 4.5 BUT rated all other aspects the same. this is just one opinion... but they are pretty trust worthy and one of the few places doing real reviews with negative comments.
    No one buys an Evil because they want the "best" climbing bike. That said, I've ridden all of the bikes in their line up and the Following is at the top for ascents. The Wreckoning is second in place for me, but a close second. The Calling is a fantastic trail ripper hooligan bike, the best I've ridden. The Wreck encourages hooliganism too (they all do), but with more smash-everything-in-your-path capability. I've also ridden the Pivot 5.5 and would take a Calling hands down over it. My favorite review source remains Bike. They ride the way I do with similar experience and age range. Coincidentally Bike was somewhat lukewarm on the Pivot too.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berm View Post
    What I found strange about the review is that both riders predicted based on their rides that the Wreckoning was one of the slower bikes on the downhill but it was barely edged out as the fastest bike by one rider when the times were revealed. What that tells me is that the bike is deceptively fast. Also, since perception is not always reality and the they didn't time the climb, are their subjective thoughts on climbing objectively valid? Again, since they didn't time the climbing section, we don't know.

    What I do know from comparing my Wreckoning to my Following based on Strava is that the Wreckoning is a faster bike on all technical features, whether up or down. Where you can feel the difference is on long sustained fire road type climbs and long mild grade incline single track; this is where the Following is better. Overall, I am very pleased to have replaced my Following with the Wreckoning.
    Very good points about perception and not timing the climbs.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY View Post
    No one buys an Evil because they want the "best" climbing bike. That said, I've ridden all of the bikes in their line up and the Following is at the top for ascents. The Wreckoning is second in place for me, but a close second. The Calling is a fantastic trail ripper hooligan bike, the best I've ridden. The Wreck encourages hooliganism too (they all do), but with more smash-everything-in-your-path capability. I've also ridden the Pivot 5.5 and would take a Calling hands down over it. My favorite review source remains Bike. They ride the way I do with similar experience and age range. Coincidentally Bike was somewhat lukewarm on the Pivot too.
    Ok thanks. I have a pivot Mach 6 and pivot is just a point of reference for me. I am looking for a new 27.5Ē frame and I am still pretty open. All my riding is pedally so it matter to me because I have to make my own speed to have fun.

  21. #21
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    i thought my wreck was an amazing climber but of course it all comes down to perspective. If I was comparing it to an XC rig maybe not but I havent ridden an XC rig in a long time....

  22. #22
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    I've always given Vital a grain of salt so to speak with any of their reviews, whether its a bike or component. I kind of lump them in with bike radar. They always seem a bit off the mark.
    You can't base a review or reviews with widely different specs on bikes. Slighting the Calling on climbing because of cheap and heavy rim set isn't exactly fair.
    I think bike reviews should all use the same spec if you are going to do a shoot out.
    Same wheel set, drive train, dropper post,....
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  23. #23
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    "Climbing is definitely not the Evil's strong suit. Even though it isn't the heaviest, it felt like it while pedaling and pumping. The laidback seat angle and slow-rolling rear tire didn't help, and despite excellent on-the-fly shock adjustability there was no getting around the fact that it feels a bit heavier than it is in most situations. We wouldn't suggest this bike for all-day affairs as it would be tiring after lots of hours in the saddle. We wouldn't suggest this bike for all-day affairs as it would be tiring after lots of hours in the saddle"

    I've done many all-day affairs on my Wreck and it shines. 30 mile/5k rides at altitude in Tahoe and I came away very impressed as well as bigger days in Santa Cruz. Running a Fox DHX2 coil in the rear and it's been outstanding. Descents are the icing.

  24. #24
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    I have no dog in this fight as I donít currently own any of the tested bikes. Nor am I affiliated with Vital.

    Just my opinion, but Iíve found Vital to be the single best source for unbiased, transparent and accurate reviews. Those guys do an incredible job. Iím thankful for the resource.

    I watched/read ALL the reviews and videos. I didnít find the testers to be any more negative about the Wreck than the others. I thought they were pretty critical of all the bikes equally.

    Just my nickel. If you own a Wreck and like it, not sure why youíd care about the reviews anyway, whether positive or not.
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  25. #25
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    It was a bike review, not a frame review.

    If it was a frame review it's obvious the Trek is by far the best choice.

    And the Rallon? WTF? Linear leverage curve + coil shock, so it bottoms out, doesn't climb that well according to them, yet they seem to love it. IMO the review was quite biased but I think they showed the bias in the vids, which is commendable.

    Anyways, I know a couple people with Wrecks and others who have tried them and liked them a lot. The owners of these bikes seem VERY happy.

  26. #26
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    The Wreckoning was really the first of it's kind to go big. A 29" x 160mm travel AM/Superchunk bike that can do it all, and do it all day.

    But two years have passed and others have joined the fray, so there are bound to be better offerings now. Why would you roll out a competing bike without aiming for a higher standard?

    I've had my Wrecker for 2 seasons and it has been great. But I've also ridden other new bikes that I think are better overall (new Sentinal, new Process 153 29er to name two).

    Evil will need to up their game a bit for Wreckoning 2.0 and I'm confident they will.

    The Wreckoning was awesome when I got mine. It's still awesome. But it's an arms race out there and bikes are improving. As a consumer, that is fantastic news.

  27. #27
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    Can you compare the Wreckoning vs Sentinel?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilingle View Post
    I think I will keep watching the bible tests. Hate it when you love I bike and somebody gives you reasons to doubt it.

    Iím always chasing the next bigger better thing. We all know what the Wreckoning is and isnít.

    I guess where it lacks in climbing ability I can offset this by getting as fit as possible.
    Sounds like your inability to make an independent decision about the bike based on your own personal experience is the issue. The statement is not intended to be mean rather you need to assess based on how the bike feels when you ride it.

    Everyone's riding style and wants are not the same. I buy a bike based on one simple factor (after correctt fit of course): do I get a massive hell yeah that was fun a shit grin when riding it? Maybe you want speed or to huck massive drops - only you can make that decision.

    Lastly, the Bible of Bike videos this yeah are terrible and I'm not just referring to the audio. Take any review with a grain of salt. Go ride, have fun and hope you find what you want in the end.

  29. #29
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    ***disclaimer***
    I didn't read this entire thread, so I am probably restating what has already been stated, haha.

    I find these questions/posts amusing. Its like somebody buys a 1/2 ton F150 and then is disappointed at its performance when it is towing at its max capacity, then has buyer's remorse that they didn't get the 3/4 ton F250 with a diesel. Both of them can tow 12k lbs. The F150 is going to be more happy unloaded, around town and less happy at 12k lbs, while the F250 is going to be less happy unloaded, around town and more happy at 12k lbs. Blinding flash of the obvious there....

    Its also funny how "climbing" is a blanket statement for all things with an ascent of any type. There is a marked difference in climbing up a very gradual 3-7* improved jeep road and trying to climb up Horsethief Bench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK9P6y_Zjfs

    If your ups are the aforementioned 3-7* jeep road AND you are not being timed on the ups, any big bike will be fine. If your ups are technicals are require trials maneuvers like above, then the extra squish will hurt you....you spend more time flexing the suspension and less time hopping the bike. If they are anything in between, then pick your style bike off of what gives you the biggest grin. I can scream up tech and non tech on my Wrecker, but it's just a means to end for me....

    Absolute Handling facts (when changing one variable at a time):
    ---Longer wheel base will turn slower (duh)
    ---Slacker head angle will turn slower and feel more floppy (wheel steers less and tilts side to to side more)
    ---Shorter CS will be easier to manual and wheelie (more leverage over rear axle)
    ---Longer FC and/or reach will be harder to manual and wheelie (weight is pulled forward in front of BB)
    ---Lower BB will corner better (leverage is below centerline of both axles)
    ---Lower BB will be harder to manual and wheelie (leverage is below centerline of rear axle)
    ---Steeper STA (effective) will shift seated weight forward helping front wheel traction
    ---Higher stack will be be easier to manual and wheelie (pulls weight rearward and provides leverage over BB)
    ---Lower stack will aid in front wheel traction while climbing (pulls weight forward and plants front wheel)

    I routinely take my Wrecker on 30-40 mile rides....its an XL, with 11.6 rear, ACS3 coil front, and Cush Core at both ends it weighs in over 35 lbs. At the end of the day, pedal strokes and traction always result in forward movement. Body English and technique always overcome obstacles. The Wrecker has gobs of traction, and with traction, there is a 1:1 translation of pedal strokes to forward movement on EVERY bike.

    Pick the geometry and travel that suits your style. Then test suspension platforms to find the kinematics that you jive with the most....which happens to be whey I like Evils...the DELTA Link

  30. #30
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    Seated climbing position on the Sentinel felt better, and perhaps a bit more support while pedaling (subjective, But i felt like the Sentinel's pedaling while climbing was better). It might be worth noting that i'm 6'3" and on an XL. Since I rarely shuttle, the climbing performance can't be overlooked even if I'm prioritizing the fun going down.

    Also, I felt like steering on the Sentinel was spot-on. I'm very used to the Wreckoning, and never thought about it at all, but after riding the Sentinel I thought that maybe the Wreckoning understeers a bit. I think the typical phrasing might be to say that the 'Wreckoning requires a bit more rider input' than the Sentinel.

    For me, I like the Wreckoning in Extra Low geometry, for head angle, but prefer the pedaling, etc, in the normal geo setup. Maybe a Works -1 degree headset will patch me up for the coming season?

    I'm still riding my Wreckoning and I will keep it at least another year. It's a great bike. But if i was shopping for bikes today, i am guessing there might be one or two out there that would be hard to overlook.

  31. #31
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    The ohlins stx22 on my wreckoning opened up the climbing potential and created a speed creating but playful downhill machine. I've ridden the sentinel which was great but thec wreckoning with the ohlins is on another level all around.

    The ohlins out climbs my monarch and dhx2 vastly.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I have no dog in this fight as I donít currently own any of the tested bikes. Nor am I affiliated with Vital.

    Just my opinion, but Iíve found Vital to be the single best source for unbiased, transparent and accurate reviews. Those guys do an incredible job. Iím thankful for the resource.

    I watched/read ALL the reviews and videos. I didnít find the testers to be any more negative about the Wreck than the others. I thought they were pretty critical of all the bikes equally.

    Just my nickel. If you own a Wreck and like it, not sure why youíd care about the reviews anyway, whether positive or not.
    Agreed. Those guys are extremely competent riders and thorough reviewers.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I have no dog in this fight as I donít currently own any of the tested bikes. Nor am I affiliated with Vital.

    Just my opinion, but Iíve found Vital to be the single best source for unbiased, transparent and accurate reviews. Those guys do an incredible job. Iím thankful for the resource.

    I watched/read ALL the reviews and videos. I didnít find the testers to be any more negative about the Wreck than the others. I thought they were pretty critical of all the bikes equally.

    Just my nickel. If you own a Wreck and like it, not sure why youíd care about the reviews anyway, whether positive or not.
    Well, in fact Vital was more critical of the Wreckoning as it received the lowest score in the test. Furthermore, the riders came into testing the Evil with admitted biases.

    There is no question those guys can roll, but I'll will agree to to disagree with their findings as noted in my previous post. What I find most curious is why out of the many stellar reviews about the Wreckoning these two did not like it.
    "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY View Post
    Well, in fact Vital was more critical of the Wreckoning as it received the lowest score in the test. Furthermore, the riders came into testing the Evil with admitted biases.

    There is no question those guys can roll, but I'll will agree to to disagree with their findings as noted in my previous post. What I find most curious is why out of the many stellar reviews about the Wreckoning these two did not like it.
    I agree, they were very biased and the video conveyed that, which I think is commendable. Most won't admit their biases.

  35. #35
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    New Wreckoning roller here. My only concern after reading the vital review was him saying the Wrecker can get overwhelmed at high speed and said more in that kater... but they never touched on that later. I was encouraged by many of their comments actually, saying the Wrecker wants to encourage you to get roughly and smash more than any other. So I bought the bike. It's a second bike for me. I did a demo on the Rallon and this would be my bike if I could only have one, but the Wrecker is more composed in the rough stuff, for me anyways.

    And it climbs great! Both technical and fireroad. I have a Primer, which is a goat of a climbing machine...but the Wrecker is heavier, that's the only difference I sense. I can't yet tell if I like climbing better with the X2 or 11.6...both are great.

  36. #36
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    If you are enjoying your bike, who the hell cares if they dont enjoy the bike your ride?
    Don't read or watch reviews. Test out as many bikes as possible and either keep the one you have (b/c you believe it is the best for what you want) or sell yours and buy the one that speaks to you.

  37. #37
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    I would love a evil 130/150 29er but my Following MB is fantastic. I look for a fun bike. I don't care how fast i go up the hill or even how fast I go down the hill. I want that HUGE grin on my face at the end of my ride and enjoying the whole ride.

    I'll be waiting for that evil or try the new stumpjumper (has threaded bb). Until I find something better I will be keeping this. HELL, if the new 130/150mm comes out, I may even still like my following better. You never know.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Then test suspension platforms to find the kinematics that you jive with the most....which happens to be whey I like Evils...the DELTA Link
    Comments like this make me wish that I didn't distrust carbon.

    To date (and I owned a Wreckoning), an Evil Insurgent is the most fun I've ever had on a bike.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMB View Post
    I would love a evil 130/150 29er but my Following MB is fantastic. I look for a fun bike. I don't care how fast i go up the hill or even how fast I go down the hill. I want that HUGE grin on my face at the end of my ride and enjoying the whole ride.

    I'll be waiting for that evil or try the new stumpjumper (has threaded bb). Until I find something better I will be keeping this. HELL, if the new 130/150mm comes out, I may even still like my following better. You never know.

    Amen brother. I sold my wreckoning and it was the most stupid bike decision I ever made. Since, I've owned the new yeti(s), Santa Cruz Nomad, Trek and a few others - I decided to buy another wreckoning LB as it is, hands-down, the best bike I've ever owned. Saved my bacon a couple times - in particular going over a downed telephone pole. It had fallen in very tall grass and by the time I realized it was there I couldn't do anything but rock-back and hold on. The Wreck went over it like it wasn't there, I was just amazed. So, along with the bronson in the stable, it'll be my DH killer...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiburi View Post
    Amen brother. I sold my wreckoning and it was the most stupid bike decision I ever made. Since, I've owned the new yeti(s), Santa Cruz Nomad, Trek and a few others - I decided to buy another wreckoning LB as it is, hands-down, the best bike I've ever owned. Saved my bacon a couple times - in particular going over a downed telephone pole. It had fallen in very tall grass and by the time I realized it was there I couldn't do anything but rock-back and hold on. The Wreck went over it like it wasn't there, I was just amazed. So, along with the bronson in the stable, it'll be my DH killer...
    Seems to me, the suspension on this bike is still the one by which others are judged against...they all claim to be supple off the top and supportive in mid-stroke with good bottom out resistance...but the Delta on this bike actually achieves while most others do not.

    Surprisingly enough, I chased a KOM on a trail most would consider XC...a 55 minute out-and-back that's 95% flat. But its littered with rocks and roots almost the entire way, and this bike just ate it up and allowed me to stay on the gas while seated. Even though this segment isn't the most traveled (maybe 150 times posted), it shows this bike can be pedaled...I ended up with the KOM out, KOM back and the 2-minute DH/tech section in the middle...and I'm far from the strongest guy out there.

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