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  1. #1
    LCW
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    New question here. Following headset creak

    My worst fear is developing... Creak on my Following. It's in the headset I believe. I can reproduce but pulling the bars back. Hear it very occasionally while riding... usually on a climb.

    Best way to reproduce is standing bike on back tire, locking rear brake and pulling down on the handlebars. I can also pull directly down on the stem and can hear it.

    I've snugged up my headset preload bolt so I know that's tight (but not overly tight).

    Suggestions? I'd hate to have to press out the cups...

    Any interfaces I can grease, or will that just mask the issue only to pop back later...???

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  2. #2
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    Following headset creak

    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    My worst fear is developing... Creak on my Following. It's in the headset I believe. I can reproduce but pulling the bars back. Hear it very occasionally while riding... usually on a climb.

    Best way to reproduce is standing bike on back tire, locking rear brake and pulling down on the handlebars. I can also pull directly down on the stem and can hear it.

    I've snugged up my headset preload bolt so I know that's tight (but not overly tight).

    Suggestions? I'd hate to have to press out the cups...

    Any interfaces I can grease, or will that just mask the issue only to pop back later...???
    I really feel that all carbon bikes creak some where. I've eliminated the creaking in the BB using locktite 609 when I pressed the cups in and I have absolutely no creaking there. I gave the headset cups the same treatment with the 609 but recently I've developed creaks in the headset and I only really hear it during out of the saddle climbing, which is a lot of time on the bike because it begs you to hammer up and down hill.
    The headset cups come out very easily so I'd suggest pulling them, cleaning the head tube and reinstalling the cups. I would not use grease and I'd suggest using locktite 609. The problem with the following is the low stack of the head tube and the diameter of the lower cup. I just feel that there is so much leverage on the cups that they and the steerer tube, stem/ spacers are going to creak at some point.
    I did a trip in the last month down to Pisgah and we drove through a crap load of hard rain on the way down. I pulled the stem steerer and dried it out, dab of grease the bearing surfaces and reinstalled them. It was fine the remainder of the trip. I got back home and rebuilt it in the marathon build with the RS-1 and after a few hundred miles it's creaking. I'm going to pull it apart and check the cups, reinstall them again with 609 if needed and use friction paste on the stem spacers and the carbon steerer tube. Hopefully that helps quiet it but I think this may just be one negative of this bikes design. It may require the occasional tear down and reinstall to quiet things. I think if you keep an eye on it, then you'll hopefully avoid ovalization of the head tube. I hate creaks period but I still love this bike and how it just begs to be ridden hard and thrashed.
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  3. #3
    LCW
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    It's not too bad right now. Did a short 7 mile ride with a few climbs and I heard it maybe once. Plenty of times I was pulling hard on the bars during a couple climbs and it wasn't making noise. Definitely not a constant problem like a creaky BB.

    I'll be keeping an eye/ear on it.

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


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    Do you have carbon spacers? I went through this a month ago thinking the HS was creaking. Greased the spacers, nothing... torqued everything to spec, nothing. Pressed out the cups (pretty easy) and put paste on them... nothing. It turned out to be my Pike. Pulling down on the bars sounds like it could be stem bar related. Grease everything and take it for a ride. I don't think you would be able to re-create a headset creak by pulling on the bars.

  5. #5
    LCW
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    I found the cause to be dirt having gotten in between the lower headset bearing and cup.

    Took it all apart, cleaned, regreased (cups along with in between all the stem spacers) and then retorqued everything down.

    Creak gone.

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  6. #6
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    Yeah, that dirt can be a MOFO. It's the biggest enemy of our beloved machines...
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  7. #7
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    I had the same issue on my Insurgent. I also periodically take apart all suspension bits as mud/dirt gets between the frame, bearings and bearing caps that can cause a bit of a creak that can reverberate through the frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    I found the cause to be dirt having gotten in between the lower headset bearing and cup.

    Took it all apart, cleaned, regreased (cups along with in between all the stem spacers) and then retorqued everything down.

    Creak gone.
    This is the most common source of creaking on all of the bikes I have ever owned. It's the classic downhill bike noise after some quality riding in Whistler too. If you're logging some heavy miles, I would actually suggest dropping the fork out of the bike every month or so, cleaning up the crown race and lower bearing cup, and reassembling with some fresh grease.

  9. #9
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    Also found out my top spacer was just a hair not thick enough to prevent the top cap from clamping fully - was bottoming out. So headset was ever so slightly loose. Put a thicker spacer. Full clamp.

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  10. #10
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    My following started to develop a pretty audible popping headset creek (other wise super quiet bike). Had to pop the fork off to send out for warranty and was pretty taken aback by how much crud was in the lower bearing assembly. I'm assuming the popping was the cups gauging by the noise, but now I'm not so sure.

    Anybody have any clever ideas to sheild the lower bearing assembly bettet? The best I can come up with is slathering it with thick grease though not sure if this would do more harm than good.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    My following started to develop a pretty audible popping headset creek (other wise super quiet bike). Had to pop the fork off to send out for warranty and was pretty taken aback by how much crud was in the lower bearing assembly. I'm assuming the popping was the cups gauging by the noise, but now I'm not so sure.

    Anybody have any clever ideas to sheild the lower bearing assembly bettet? The best I can come up with is slathering it with thick grease though not sure if this would do more harm than good.
    Since diagnosing and fixing my headset creak, I've used minimal grease and it never returned, so my suggestion would be go easy on the grease.

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  12. #12
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    Mine no doubt was the outer bearing races binding up on the cups. I was pretty liberal with the grease & it's been quiet since. Other than that this has been the most maintenance free bike I've owned
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  13. #13
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    Following headset creak

    I set my head set cups with locktite 609 and they were creak free for a long time. I developed a creak during the early summer and thought it might be the cups but instead it was the spacers. I do drop the fork as suggested and clean up the crown race, cups and bearings. Then re-lube the bearings and apply friction paste to the spacers. This seems to help but like zhendo mentioned it all needs periodic cleaning and re-lubing to keep it all quiet of course depending on the conditions; rain, mud and all of it.
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  14. #14
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    I've got the headset creak again, and I'm going to pull the fork and clean things up a bit tonight. I've found that the type and amount of grease matter quite a bit - all you really need is a thin film to keep the steel of the bearing races from grinding/creaking again the headset cup, but if you use too much grease (or a grease that is too sticky), you can end up attracting sand and grit that makes the creak come back that much sooner.

    I've found that FSA headsets develop creaks MUCH faster than my Cane Creek headsets, and I think part of it may be due to the crown race. Cane Creek's crown race has a blue rubber lip around the outside that better protects the seam between the race, bearing and headset cup. I'm not sure whether a Cane Creek lower bearing and crown race would be possible with the stock FSA cups, might be worth a shot.

  15. #15
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    I actually use the CC 110 crown race for the seals. It works quite well and keeps the lower bearing and cup much cleaner.
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    Does that Cane Creek race fit the FSA bearing without issue?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Anybody have any clever ideas to sheild the lower bearing assembly bettet? The best I can come up with is slathering it with thick grease though not sure if this would do more harm than good.


    Protects the lower HS and the fork seals. They stay immaculate even after a really muddy ride.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhendo View Post
    Does that Cane Creek race fit the FSA bearing without issue?
    Yep no issues.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    Yep no issues.


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    Just installed the C110 fork race as well and it works perfect.
    Looking forward to less debris in the lower bearing assembly.

    Here is a pic of what the normal bearing assembly would look like after a couple rides.

    Thanks Manitou2200.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Following headset creak-img_0473.jpg  


  20. #20
    LCW
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    Will the 110 CC fork race fit up to the Evil/FSA lower bearing?

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPSarge View Post
    Just installed the C110 fork race as well and it works perfect.
    Looking forward to less debris in the lower bearing assembly.

    Here is a pic of what the normal bearing assembly would look like after a couple rides.

    Thanks Manitou2200.
    Good deal, glad to help.
    When I got my Following in early 2015 I initially used the FSA crown race but pulling the fork at a service point I realized how much debris could get passed the CR. I checked the bearing specs comparing the CC 110 against the FSA bearing and they matched up. I mated the FSA lower bearing to the CC 110 crown race which looked good and have not had an issue with the combo.
    I think that FSA left the seal off the crown race to maybe aid in drainage from water possibly entering from above which I've had happen on another bike. I've not had this water issue on The Following and I've had my bike on the my trucks rear rack in torrential rain on a couple trips.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Will the 110 CC fork race fit up to the Evil/FSA lower bearing?
    Yes it does, with its double lip seal it's better than the FSA crown race.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    Yes it does, with its double lip seal it's better than the FSA crown race.
    Cool - thnx!

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT


  23. #23
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    Good call on the crown race Manitou!
    Is it just me or is this bike still the best trail ripper out there in it's travel range?
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  24. #24
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    Following headset creak

    I think it's the best really at 120 it's slack, quick and poppy with the short rear. I do wish it was a little lighter to make it more endurance friendly but overall it's a great steed. If you haven't tried it with a 120 fork, you should, mines still set up with the RS-1 120 and it rips. When I ride steeper terrain like Pisgah or GJ/ Moab I'll throw on the 140 Stage. This gives me tons of options especially with the high low geo and tires.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFollowing View Post
    Do you have carbon spacers? I went through this a month ago thinking the HS was creaking. Greased the spacers, nothing... torqued everything to spec, nothing. Pressed out the cups (pretty easy) and put paste on them... nothing. It turned out to be my Pike. Pulling down on the bars sounds like it could be stem bar related. Grease everything and take it for a ride. I don't think you would be able to re-create a headset creak by pulling on the bars.
    Thank you! I had a creak on my Tallboy. Doing a search I came across your question of carbon spacers. Swapped the two 5mm above my stem with one 10mm below the stem. Creak is gone!

  26. #26
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    My Following also gets the headset creak. Pulled the fork out and bearings are nasty brown goop inside races. Cleaned as best possible and reinstalled. Creak is caused by dirt between bearing and cup. Did some research before ordering new bearings unfortunately there aren't any options other than FSA for this bike. Came across manitou's crown race swap ordered bearings and CC110 crown race. Gonna give that a try and see if it works better. Thanks for idea!
    2016 Evil Following V1
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  27. #27
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    Help with headset creak.

    My last 2 bikes with CC 40s have creaks. I think I'm prone to this as I run high rise bars with a few spacers, and combine that with silly short headtubes, there is a lot of leverage applied to the top of the headset.

    What consistently occurs is after a nice clean and light amount of grease the headset is silent. About 2 hours in to the first ride the creak starts and worsens. Getting the bike back to the shop I find I can torque the top cap maybe 1/8th of a turn. Silence, until about 2 hours into the next ride, then same thing.

    It's almost like the stem is slipping and causing just a bit of play. I've been through about 4 or 5 stems on these last 2 bikes but I get the same results. I torque the stem bolts, ride the bike a bit then re-torque and often there is just of hair of uptake. Point is I'm making sure the stem is tightened.

    I've tried the fitted headset spacers from CC and that helps, but eventually the creak returns.

    Spoke with CC a few times. I'm "over-torquing" the headset quite a bit to ensure its tight. The bearings are smooth and there is no binding.

    Maybe the compression ring needs to be swapped out as I suppose a worn ring could more easily lead to some play in the steerer. I'm willing to give this a shot.

    Interestingly I've got a stock Giant brand HS (3-4 years old) on my DH bike which has seen a vastly greater amount of abuse, and extremely little maintenance, and it is dead silent.

    I like CC and they are very cool to deal with but I'm at my wits end.


    To add more info, the creak is typically created from pulling/yanking on the bars on hard climbs.

    I'm looking to maybe move to a King HS.

    Any advice?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Help with headset creak.

    My last 2 bikes with CC 40s have creaks. I think I'm prone to this as I run high rise bars with a few spacers, and combine that with silly short headtubes, there is a lot of leverage applied to the top of the headset.

    What consistently occurs is after a nice clean and light amount of grease the headset is silent. About 2 hours in to the first ride the creak starts and worsens. Getting the bike back to the shop I find I can torque the top cap maybe 1/8th of a turn. Silence, until about 2 hours into the next ride, then same thing.

    It's almost like the stem is slipping and causing just a bit of play. I've been through about 4 or 5 stems on these last 2 bikes but I get the same results. I torque the stem bolts, ride the bike a bit then re-torque and often there is just of hair of uptake. Point is I'm making sure the stem is tightened.

    I've tried the fitted headset spacers from CC and that helps, but eventually the creak returns.

    Spoke with CC a few times. I'm "over-torquing" the headset quite a bit to ensure its tight. The bearings are smooth and there is no binding.

    Maybe the compression ring needs to be swapped out as I suppose a worn ring could more easily lead to some play in the steerer. I'm willing to give this a shot.

    Interestingly I've got a stock Giant brand HS (3-4 years old) on my DH bike which has seen a vastly greater amount of abuse, and extremely little maintenance, and it is dead silent.

    I like CC and they are very cool to deal with but I'm at my wits end.


    To add more info, the creak is typically created from pulling/yanking on the bars on hard climbs.

    I'm looking to maybe move to a King HS.

    Any advice?
    Upgrade to Cane Creek 110 headset.... so much better, on all levels.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne_Pepa View Post
    Upgrade to Cane Creek 110 headset.... so much better, on all levels.
    Yeah, I asked CC about that. I'm willing to drop the $ to make the noise go away. They said it would likely not make a difference.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yeah, I asked CC about that. I'm willing to drop the $ to make the noise go away. They said it would likely not make a difference.
    Mine is inside a short carbon head tube. It's dead-quiet.

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  31. #31
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    Upgrade to a Works angle set. Deeper cup depth. I use locktite 609 and friction on carbon and AL spacers.
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  32. #32
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    The CC 110 uses 7075 aloomeaneum which is significantly tougher than 6061 and is 'cut in NC' The CC 10 that I am replacing has galling indications all the way around the cup and bearing at the taper edge in the middle of the cup, like the tapers did not match. Same symptoms as everyone else, after a clean and rebuild it would be silent for weeks then slowly come back and it does seem be consistent with how much debris gets on the joint. Since mine looked like it was shifting under load I used some friction paste mixed with grease and that worked OK over the past week but now I have the 110 to install.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yeah, I asked CC about that. I'm willing to drop the $ to make the noise go away. They said it would likely not make a difference.
    Which model are you using? I looked at CC but didn't find a lower bearing to match size.
    2016 Evil Following V1
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  34. #34
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    Iíve never had the stock headsets creak and especially not the Works headset with its deeper cups. The locktite 609 really helps. The only creak Iíve gotten is from the spacers under the stem but thatís easy to remedy with friction paste.

    I also used the CC 110 crown race with its dual lip seal and 7075 AL construction with the stock FSA headset. The 110 crown race will not work with the Works headset as itís not tall enough but the Works crown race is a nice design and works very well.
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  35. #35
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    After I replay this headset story in my head I realized I've been through about 4 CC 40s on my last three bikes.

    Anyway, I bit the bullit and put on a King. Silence over the last several rides.

    I still think CC is great. Their Inline Coil shock is super.

  36. #36
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    All Evil bikes creak.

  37. #37
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    Following headset creak

    ^Miker J, I quit using the 40 series headsets. The bearings suck. The 110ís are much better but Kings are the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHROMAG19 View Post
    All Evil bikes creak.
    If you donít know how to build them and set them up.


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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post

    If you donít know how to build them and set them up.

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    Sick burns

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1078 View Post
    Sick burns
    Iím not trying to burn or be a RC but Iíve been riding The Following for 3.5 years and a few thousand miles on it. No creaking on my bike other than the carbon headset spacers once in a while that I mentioned earlier. Easy to remedy, itís just maintenance. None of my bikes creak. I frickin hate those kind of noises.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    Iím not trying to burn or be a RC but Iíve been riding The Following for 3.5 years and a few thousand miles on it. No creaking on my bike other than the carbon headset spacers once in a while that I mentioned earlier. Easy to remedy, itís just maintenance. None of my bikes creak. I frickin hate those kind of noises.
    My only noises have been caused by dirt, lack of grease, or a bad bolt. No noises due to the frame itself.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1078 View Post
    My only noises have been caused by dirt, lack of grease, or a bad bolt. No noises due to the frame itself.
    This is correct. Not sure what manitou2200 is talking about?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHROMAG19 View Post
    This is correct. Not sure what manitou2200 is talking about?
    Iím talking about the carbon spacers under the stem. When they become dry they creak sometimes. Just grease them or carbon paste and theyíre quiet for most of a season.
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