Racing Hardtail in Enduros (To save money, currently on a budget.)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Racing Hardtail in Enduros (To save money, currently on a budget.)

    So I was wondering, from 1 to 10 on difficulty, how hard Fire Mountain, Snowshoe, Pisgah and Beech mtn triple crowns would be with a Giant Hardtail. Beech mtn has a hardtail class for the august event, so its clearly doable with a hardtail....and from riding hellbender, blue ridge rocks and bermese python so many times, its not that hard to require an enduro rental.

    Have not ridden fire mtn, snowshoe or pisgah yet....how are the trails in respect for a hardtail?

  2. #2
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    The answer is it depends...I would assume all can be ridden on a hardtail because they were back in the day, what are your goals, what skills are you bringing. I'm sure there are people that that are super fast no matter what they ride.

  3. #3
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    To podium.....of course. or atleast top 5 in the upcoming events. snowshoe; pisgah....beech....

    As for fire mountain; its past...and noone could take me to the enduro in cherokee..

    Im bringing a former race bmx background and a few years of riding dirtbikes to my hardtail mtb rides.

  4. #4
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    Just save your money by not wasting it on the entrance fee.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  5. #5
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    Right...and do what July to August? Be bored for two months? I dont think so. Hopefully; I can get advice from another racer.....sfgiantsfan isnt a racer clearly. Racers dont call entry fee a ''waste''

  6. #6
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    The point of this thread is using my hardtail instead of spending 80-150 dollars a day for an enduro rental. Since it flew over giantsfans head.

  7. #7
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    It's one of those questions "if you have to ask..."

    Watch a couple videos of some endure events and then ask the question again.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  8. #8
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    Videos dont show in depth details.....like 17 foot drops....30 foot ramp jump road gaps.....

    I ask this for true rider to rider experience. I could watch videos....but to the trails I havent actually ridden much or have not ridden at all yet....fire mountain....pisgah....etc....it looks easy in videos.

    I watched videos on black bear...thought I could handle it. Rode it on the 2nd...then again on the 23rd and 24th.....with a giant glory 2 or 3. definitely was unsure about quite a bit.....

    so thats why I ask.

    So lets try again.

    Snowshoe Enduro.....The Pisgah Enduro....and this years Beech MTN triple crown enduro....can a hardtail handle them?

  9. #9
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    You can totally ride a Hardtail in the Pisgah Enduro. You just won't be competitive, unless your skills are much higher than all of the shredders that call that forest home. Maybe you should head on over to Pisgah and ride the trails beforehand, and see what you think. That's what a real racer would do.

  10. #10
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    Ha, you couldn't pay me to ride Pisgah on a hard tail. Much less catch me paying my own entry and riding a hard tail. Pisgah is gonna beat you into submission on a hardtail.

    If you are serious about racing Enduro, sell the HT and get a full squish.
    In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains.

  11. #11
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    ok....well see when I feel like doing a 70.2 mile ride to camp grier road....or how soon I can get a ride there from someone....or how soon someone helps me take my road test to get my license. Whichever of the three comes first. Only have until August 10th to get pre race trail ride practice in. Raceday is the 11th to 12th.

  12. #12
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    Turn left onto N Water St
    0.3 mi
    Turn left onto Rivers St
    0.8 mi
    Turn right onto Hill St
    256 ft
    Turn left onto Holmes Dr
    0.1 mi
    Turn right onto Faculty St
    0.5 mi
    Turn right onto Winklers Creek Rd
    0.3 mi
    Turn right to stay on Winklers Creek Rd
    3.2 mi
    Continue onto Flannery Fork Rd
    2.3 mi
    Turn left onto Shulls Mill Rd
    0.2 mi
    Continue onto State Rd 1571
    318 ft
    Turn left onto Blue Ridge Pkwy
    20.9 mi
    Turn left onto North Carolina Bicycle Rte 2/Parkway Rd
    456 ft
    Turn right onto NC-183 N
    2.9 mi
    Turn right to stay on NC-183 N
    0.7 mi
    Turn left onto US-221 S
    5.8 mi
    Turn left onto Old Linville Rd
    3.5 mi
    Slight left to stay on Old Linville Rd
    4.7 mi
    Turn left onto American Thread Rd
    1.9 mi
    Turn left onto US-221 S
    3.4 mi
    Turn right onto Toms Creek Rd
    2.6 mi
    Turn left onto NC-80 S
    1.9 mi
    Turn left onto US-70 E
    240 ft
    Turn right onto Resistoflex Rd
    0.5 mi
    Turn right onto Old Greenlee Rd
    489 ft
    Slight right to stay on Old Greenlee Rd
    3.0 mi
    Turn right to stay on Old Greenlee Rd
    0.4 mi
    Turn left onto Columbia Carolina Rd
    0.5 mi
    Continue onto Greenlee Rd
    3.3 mi
    Turn left onto Parker Padgett Rd
    0.2 mi
    Continue onto Oakdale Rd
    2.7 mi
    Turn right onto Lackey Town Rd
    0.4 mi
    Continue onto S Railroad St
    0.4 mi
    Turn left onto Catawba Ave
    194 ft
    Turn right onto Commerce St
    0.4 mi
    Turn right onto Orchard St
    0.4 mi
    Turn left onto State Rd 1400
    0.4 mi
    Turn right onto Camp Grier Rd
    Destination will be on the left

  13. #13
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    By the time I put tires on the hardtail; its an 800 dollar race bike. And I dont have the 3200 dollars for the Bronson C I wanted originally. I got the hardtail because its as serious as I can afford for a serious mtn bike. At presently.

  14. #14
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    Buy used if you are on a budget. Full squish aluminum can be had for way less and carbon ain't worth nothing but bling factor. Hell, I bought a GG Trail Pistola for 2500$ fully decked out in XTR components and brakes with I9 wheels. Enduro machine ready to shred and decked out with some of the best parts available.
    In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains.

  15. #15
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    any bike is a race bike if you enter a race on it I wouldn't waste time worrying about getting on the podium though... maybe just completing the event, and getting better would be a more realistic goal. I've ridden a 100mm xc hardtail all over pisgah, and also a 140mm full squish... there is no comparison in speed on the downs. You'd have better luck getting on a podium if you entered races that did not center around what your bike is the worst at (going downhill). Maybe a typical XC race in the mountains would be a better idea because you could play to your bikes strengths (going uphill).

    like this: https://www.blueridgeadventures.net/...potato/race-3/

  16. #16
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    Pisgah is a large area....Im just talking about the enduro in old fort. Not the full range of the forest.

    XC doesnt interest me....honestly....I only do 4X, DS, Enduro and Downhill. Im not a fast climber....much faster on the descents. PBJ, Ole Hoss, Middle earth, boat rock and rocky branch to name my most familiar trails.

    Here is the stages for my august enduro.

    Pisgah Productions | Pisgah National Forest | Pisgah Enduro

  17. #17
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    The Pisgah Enduro course is quite pedally, it actually favors a hard tail in places. However, Heartbreak Ridge has the capacity to bend you over and give you a good spanking if you're not careful. Kitsuma's not bad on a hard tail, there's some straight pedally sections where you can make up a lot of time, but you're going to lose some on the steeper/tighter sections.

  18. #18
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    Even if Snowshoe doesnt happen...I definitely will be getting Aggressors on the hardtail before pisgah. Ive noticed the Ikon+ tires dont hold speed well and will spin or slide slightly in rock garden or corners at speed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Pisgah is a large area....Im just talking about the enduro in old fort. Not the full range of the forest.

    XC doesnt interest me....honestly....I only do 4X, DS, Enduro and Downhill. Im not a fast climber....much faster on the descents. PBJ, Ole Hoss, Middle earth, boat rock and rocky branch to name my most familiar trails.
    Do you have Strava? How fast are you on those segments?

  20. #20
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    I do have strava...but haven't risked using my android tablet if I fall. It's all I have for mobile or after hours internet. So haven't timed myself at rkp yet.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Even if Snowshoe doesnt happen...I definitely will be getting Aggressors on the hardtail before pisgah. Ive noticed the Ikon+ tires dont hold speed well and will spin or slide slightly in rock garden or corners at speed.
    I'd be putting a DHR2 with the Double Down casing on the back. It will grip like velcro, and might save a rim as well. And DHF on the front and you could get away with a lighter casing, maybe.

  22. #22
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    Even though you made yourself come across as a bit of a punk, I'll chime in. If you're looking to podium, racing a HT might be the best way to do it. There were 2 HTs at the North American Enduro Cup, and only one finished. These were the same trails that a DH race was on recently. So if there is a HT class, you should have very few competitors. Or you could pedal a DH bike, like one of the pros did. Both options seem pretty horrible to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    You guys suck im all bummed now

  23. #23
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    No idea how many competitors Ill have in my class if I race hardtail compared to renting a enduro bike for Amateur class at Beech MTNs enduro. Only one Junior is registered at present on bikereg.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    I'd be putting a DHR2 with the Double Down casing on the back. It will grip like velcro, and might save a rim as well. And DHF on the front and you could get away with a lighter casing, maybe.
    Do they make a DHR2 or DHF with DD casing for 27.5x2.30? I cant fit 2.50wt on my bike. Needing an answer by next week. Wanting to get the tires asap.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Do they make a DHR2 or DHF with DD casing for 27.5x2.30? I cant fit 2.50wt on my bike. Needing an answer by next week. Wanting to get the tires asap.
    https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-...-minion-dhr-ii

    Yes, they do.

  26. #26
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    Would a set of dhr2s be best or should I run a high roller and a dhr2?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Would a set of dhr2s be best or should I run a high roller and a dhr2?
    Typically, the DHR2 is run in the rear and DHF in the front.

    You can do a HRII/DHRII combo just fine, but I personally prefer the DHF up front. It corners better and lasts longer, grips just as well or better IMO.

  28. #28
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    High roller in the front?

  29. #29
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    Would a DHF/aggressor combo be good as well?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Would a DHF/aggressor combo be good as well?
    Yes


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Would a DHF/aggressor combo be good as well?
    The issue with the High Roller II for me is that the knobs are kindof thin and seem to wear fast when you ride them on any hardpack surface. They do a little better when it is wet or sloppy, but not enough IMO to justify the limited lifespan of the tire. They also roll really slow, despite their name. I've run them for a long time in the past (I think I ran them exclusively for 2 years), they are great, but when I went to a DHF, I never went back.

    I would, no matter what you do, run a DHF in the front. You'll want the 3C version with the softer compound rubber to help grip a little more on the wet surfaces at RKP and Beech. The dual compound tires (non-3C) wear slower and roll a bit faster, but they give it up when it comes to wet roots and wood (thinking about those bridges at RKP).

    In the back, the DHRII is a great tire, it's designed as a rear and provides really good braking, but it does roll a bit slower. Again, the 3C version will hold better on the wet but will wear a lot faster. If you want a tire that is going to bite better on wet surfaces, 3C is an option, but you will wear through it faster than the DC version.

    If I run 3C front and rear, I find that I get about 1500 or so miles out of the front and end up replacing the rear 3-4 times before I need to replace the front. One other thing to keep in mind is that if you ride on asphalt (e.g. pedaling to the trailhead), 3C will wear much faster especially in the back.

    The Aggressor is a good option, it rolls faster than the DHRII, but you lose braking with it and traction on wet surfaces. I find it somewhat mitigated by reducing pressure a few psi when it's wet, but it still doesn't bite like the DHRII does especially in mud and especially on wet roots/wood/rocks. When it slides, it seems to be predictable and regain grip reliably, but for park riding, it wouldn't be my first choice unless you were looking for something to roll faster. My experience has also been that it wears fast on asphalt. In comparison to the DHRII, I feel like the benefits of the Aggressor are lost when you have to take techie bits slower like you would on a hardtail especially at a park.

    Given that you are on a hardtail and what I recall of your posts in the NC forum, I would go with a DHF 2.3 3C in the front (DD or EXO) and a DHRII 2.3 DC (DD or EXO) in the rear.

  32. #32
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    I am curious how your races were with your HT (or if you rented a bike)?

  33. #33
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    The Hardtail didn't last long. Kitsuma and Star Gap killed it during Pisgah Enduro. Talked to my sponsor a week or so after and we both agreed 350 dollars in repairs on a at best, 600 to 700 dollar bike isn't worth it. Brakes need to be bled, and replaced. Derailleur needs to be replaced. Brake levers are bent. Front Suspension is broken. Due to Riding and racing the Enduro Blind, with no test or Pre ride in advance, and the slick muddy and rainy conditions during Kitsuma and Star Gap, I finished 50th of 53 in Amateur Sport

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    The Hardtail didn't last long. Kitsuma and Star Gap killed it during Pisgah Enduro. Talked to my sponsor a week or so after and we both agreed 350 dollars in repairs on a at best, 600 to 700 dollar bike isn't worth it. Brakes need to be bled, and replaced. Derailleur needs to be replaced. Brake levers are bent. Front Suspension is broken. Due to Riding and racing the Enduro Blind, with no test or Pre ride in advance, and the slick muddy and rainy conditions during Kitsuma and Star Gap, I finished 50th of 53 in Amateur Sport



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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    The Hardtail didn't last long. Kitsuma and Star Gap killed it during Pisgah Enduro. Talked to my sponsor a week or so after and we both agreed 350 dollars in repairs on a at best, 600 to 700 dollar bike isn't worth it. Brakes need to be bled, and replaced. Derailleur needs to be replaced. Brake levers are bent. Front Suspension is broken. Due to Riding and racing the Enduro Blind, with no test or Pre ride in advance, and the slick muddy and rainy conditions during Kitsuma and Star Gap, I finished 50th of 53 in Amateur Sport
    That's ok, you gained experience.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    The issue with the High Roller II for me is that the knobs are kindof thin and seem to wear fast when you ride them on any hardpack surface. They do a little better when it is wet or sloppy, but not enough IMO to justify the limited lifespan of the tire. They also roll really slow, despite their name. I've run them for a long time in the past (I think I ran them exclusively for 2 years), they are great, but when I went to a DHF, I never went back.

    I would, no matter what you do, run a DHF in the front. You'll want the 3C version with the softer compound rubber to help grip a little more on the wet surfaces at RKP and Beech. The dual compound tires (non-3C) wear slower and roll a bit faster, but they give it up when it comes to wet roots and wood (thinking about those bridges at RKP).

    In the back, the DHRII is a great tire, it's designed as a rear and provides really good braking, but it does roll a bit slower. Again, the 3C version will hold better on the wet but will wear a lot faster. If you want a tire that is going to bite better on wet surfaces, 3C is an option, but you will wear through it faster than the DC version.

    If I run 3C front and rear, I find that I get about 1500 or so miles out of the front and end up replacing the rear 3-4 times before I need to replace the front. One other thing to keep in mind is that if you ride on asphalt (e.g. pedaling to the trailhead), 3C will wear much faster especially in the back.

    The Aggressor is a good option, it rolls faster than the DHRII, but you lose braking with it and traction on wet surfaces. I find it somewhat mitigated by reducing pressure a few psi when it's wet, but it still doesn't bite like the DHRII does especially in mud and especially on wet roots/wood/rocks. When it slides, it seems to be predictable and regain grip reliably, but for park riding, it wouldn't be my first choice unless you were looking for something to roll faster. My experience has also been that it wears fast on asphalt. In comparison to the DHRII, I feel like the benefits of the Aggressor are lost when you have to take techie bits slower like you would on a hardtail especially at a park.

    Given that you are on a hardtail and what I recall of your posts in the NC forum, I would go with a DHF 2.3 3C in the front (DD or EXO) and a DHRII 2.3 DC (DD or EXO) in the rear.
    have done 2 enduros this year on my mondraker vantage. all in all it's a fun experience.

    I would recommend against maxxis 2.3 tires on a hardtail if your trying for a podium. my minion ss and dhf are all but impossible on a hardtail due to the amount of bounce through rock gardens / roots at speed. my riddler / trail boss are much better in that respect, i can bomb rockgardens along with the full sus bikes but they also lack bite in loam. bigger is better on a hardtail, giving you a bit of "suspension" on the rear for the fast chatter.

    Same is probably true on a full sus, however i dont think they notice as much.

    Hear browsing for a solution to this exact problem. have two more enduros this fall and i know they are going to end up being in knee deep mud.

    the first enduro had 8 hardtails, the second only 3 including myself. We are in denmark, so the stages are short. fatigue will probably play a factor in longer stages. originally from west virginia, so i'm kinda familiar with snowshoe and how long a stage is possible there. wouldnt look forward to that kinda abuse on a hardtail, and if i did it, i would be totally unconcerned with the result but survival.
    Last edited by ZHaunDK; 08-31-2018 at 05:55 AM.

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