NY - Short Cuts in Enduro Race? Outed by Stava (CHEATER)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    NY - Short Cuts in Enduro Race? Outed by Stava (CHEATER)

    I'm a newbie to the msg boards and relatively new to MTB (3 years). Did my first enduro yesterday in Lippman part, Catskills NY. Great trails, well marked, the local group put on a good event. However, when I was looking at the results today with posted times for the two stages, I remembered the Flyby feature Stava has. I was like, "sweet" Let me see where I could have done better to have improved my time compared to the guys that beat me. To my surprise I could see the route some riders took was FAR different than the one I rode. And surprise, their times were better than mine. This is when I put my detective hat on and did a little more digging. The freaking guy who finished second overall and first in my age group took the most egregious shortcuts. Not just a few, LOTS!!! Then he was yapping it up on his Strava account that he finished second. Oh, and he's a local, so he knew the best spots to cheat.

    Yes I'm Butthurt!

    How common is this with Enduro or Cross Country? I really want to compete in more races, but not if this is expected and tolerated.

  2. #2
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    To a certain extent if it is not taped it is legal under most rules. It really depends on the organizers. This does have it's limits though especially when you start talking about true overland, IE no trail, cuts.

    I ran into a similar issue a few months ago where it was obvious that people were cutting the trails, but nothing to be done about it in my situation. For your situation I would forward the link to the organizers and get their feedback.

  3. #3
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    Unfortunately cheating has become accepted as a way of life in this country. I'm glad you didn't mention any names, as they may become 'offended'.
    BS, cheaters should be disqualified !
    don't tell me, "Show Me " !

  4. #4
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    Response from the organizers was that is must have been a GPS glitch.

    My response - Interesting only one person experienced glitches when we all used the same app and the accuracy of this app across multiple phone typs is proven to be >98%. I agree, there were no trails in some of those sections, but straight lines through the switch backs looks a little fishy."

    I've attached the evidence as well and here's the Strava link, you be the judge. Strava FlybyTop Half Shortcuts.pdfBottom Half Shortcuts.pdf

  5. #5
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    See if you can tell me who was the "Creative" one.

    Strava Flyby

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHowe View Post
    I'm a newbie to the msg boards and relatively new to MTB (3 years). Did my first enduro yesterday in Lippman part, Catskills NY. Great trails, well marked, the local group put on a good event. However, when I was looking at the results today with posted times for the two stages, I remembered the Flyby feature Stava has. I was like, "sweet" Let me see where I could have done better to have improved my time compared to the guys that beat me. To my surprise I could see the route some riders took was FAR different than the one I rode. And surprise, their times were better than mine. This is when I put my detective hat on and did a little more digging. The freaking guy who finished second overall and first in my age group took the most egregious shortcuts. Not just a few, LOTS!!! Then he was yapping it up on his Strava account that he finished second. Oh, and he's a local, so he knew the best spots to cheat.

    Yes I'm Butthurt!

    How common is this with Enduro or Cross Country? I really want to compete in more races, but not if this is expected and tolerated.
    Just an FYI:

    It could very well be that his GPS track is simply way off.

    I've been on group rides where several of us rode the same route, but recorded very different tracks. Alternate, there's one segment where some days I'll have excellent reception, and the plotted route matches up very well with the trail map. On other days, I'll hear my phone saying "Pausing" and "Resuming" 10-12 times on that same 7-8 minute climb.

    Does that mean that I cheated? No. It means that, due to atmospheric impacts on EM radiation, the signal was lost.
    Death from Below.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Just an FYI:

    It could very well be that his GPS track is simply way off.

    I've been on group rides where several of us rode the same route, but recorded very different tracks. Alternate, there's one segment where some days I'll have excellent reception, and the plotted route matches up very well with the trail map. On other days, I'll hear my phone saying "Pausing" and "Resuming" 10-12 times on that same 7-8 minute climb.

    Does that mean that I cheated? No. It means that, due to atmospheric impacts on EM radiation, the signal was lost.
    This. Especially if you're recording on a phone

  8. #8
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    Interesting only one person experienced glitches when we all used the same app and the accuracy of this app across multiple phone typs is proven to be >98%. Take a look and you tell me if something looks fishy - Strava Flyby

  9. #9
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    The faster you go, the less accurate your gps track will be. This is true for all devices.

    It is a sampling interval problem. GPS will ALWAYS shortcut a curve, but it will shortcut it more the fewer points are recorded in the curve.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The faster you go, the less accurate your gps track will be. This is true for all devices.

    It is a sampling interval problem. GPS will ALWAYS shortcut a curve, but it will shortcut it more the fewer points are recorded in the curve.
    This is a possibility, since there are different options for how often your position is recorded.

    One way to see if anyone took shortcuts is to look for actual tracks, which is inconvenient, but far more convenient than watching the entire course while people are on the stage.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHowe View Post
    See if you can tell me who was the "Creative" one.

    Strava Flyby
    Well, it looks like the alleged cheater also drove through a pond. Is there a bridge there or is the pond now dry? If not, that's pretty good proof his GPS is wonky.

  12. #12
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    We all went through the "Pond" it was actually a small creek. My focus was more on the switch backs with the straight lines through them. All in all, it wasn't a big race, just my first experience.

  13. #13
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    Death from Below.

  14. #14
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    So are you saying that you cheat when you just ride around?

  15. #15
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    Yep. I actually rode my 250 through the woods at 30mph at one point, underground at others, to achieve those straight lines.
    Death from Below.

  16. #16
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    When I cheat and take a straight path I fly instead of going underground. This particular one was uphill, also.

    NY - Short Cuts in Enduro Race? Outed by Stava (CHEATER)-screen-shot-2015-09-23-9.46.07-am.jpg

    Something I find interesting is the 3 trips down the creek trail all lay on top of each other and the trail does not cross the creek down there, though the topo map indicates that it does.

    The top of the creek trail is in a pretty deep gully with lots of trees. This is a Garmin 810 that is flailing recording where it went.

    NY - Short Cuts in Enduro Race? Outed by Stava (CHEATER)-screen-shot-2015-09-23-9.42.57-am.jpg

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