Hard/heavy high speed G-outs - techniques?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Hard/heavy high speed G-outs - techniques?

    Is there a way to make really hard G-outs any smoother without going slower, nor setting your suspension up to better cope with these? Don't want to compromise suspension elsewhere, when it's just basically 1 spot that might be troublesome enough to make note of, like a V-ditch.

    It's pretty much how the rear wheel impacts the upsloping side on the far end of the G-out that loads up the frame in some twisted state and bucks back in some rather unpredictable way. While I'd like to try and get a bit more forward, I'm just going so fast that it's hard to do so confidently. I've seen others ride this and buzz their asses from being far back, so I at least know that I'm not that far back, since that doesn't happen to me. There's one on my local trails that I've rode with a number of bikes, and it's not really any less challenging on some of the most DH capable of them, even with fully adjustable susp like a CC DBA.

    It's not that big of a deal, and totally rideable without major problems. Just basically asking myself if I can handle it smoother/better, and I'm having trouble thinking of a way. I imagine purposely trying to get wheels off the ground is akin to landing on an upslope, and I'm not so sure if that's any better than simply rolling it.
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

  2. #2
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    I suppose this is why Trek, Pivot, SC and others are making their frames heavier/stiffer. It's really just the loading up of the frame, and its spring back, that kind of makes heavy g-out spots a bit of a wild surprise each time. Getting twisted up on a hard hit always feels a bit awkward, lowering confidence.
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

  3. #3
    LMN
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    Maybe come into it standing a little taller. Give yourself a little more room to absorb it with your legs and arms.

    A lot of time when we approach something that is making us a bit nervous we tend crouch down and lose the ability to absorb it as well.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  4. #4
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    I am new to modern bikes and fs and have had this issue with a similar feature. Quick change in vertical direction through a creekbed crossing. Is standing tall and/or slowing down about it for attempting to prevent blowing through suspension? Or are there ways i can better set up the fork to deal with this? For ref I'm on a TB3 29.

  5. #5
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    Do you roll in or manual in?

    I have found - once or twice - that if I manual into an abrupt transition like that, but let the front tire hit the upslope before the rear, the bike seems to change direction (from going down into the G-out to going up the other side) more smoothly than if I landed the manual flat into the upslope. Obviously, like you said, you don't want to get caught in the back seat and loop out of it. Lotsa variables, though. YMMV

    OR - can you hit it slightly diagonally?


    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    Do you roll in or manual in?

    I have found - once or twice - that if I manual into an abrupt transition like that, but let the front tire hit the upslope before the rear, the bike seems to change direction (from going down into the G-out to going up the other side) more smoothly than if I landed the manual flat into the upslope. Obviously, like you said, you don't want to get caught in the back seat and loop out of it. Lotsa variables, though. YMMV

    OR - can you hit it slightly diagonally?


    -F
    Hmm cool thanks. I have not tried to manual into it. I will try that next time through.

    What do you mean by diagonally? Bike diagonal to ground like leaning over? Or diagonal to the obstacle like not hit it head on?

  7. #7
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    If the ditch is a true V, the bucking is at least partially a function of high speed rebound.

    The first thing I would try is making sure that I cannot move the bike underneath me, in a way, or at a speed, that would solve the problem. Figure that out and it's another piece of riding knowledge to use elsewhere.

    If it causes a "whoa" moment, but isn't unsafe, or have an impact on what happens next, just do what you can. If it's unsafe, or does have an impact on what happens next, follow the slow in, fast out principle and sacrifice a little speed for consistency....course, slowing down a little for a tough obstacle sometimes allows you to overcome whatever was keeping you from doing it at high speeds in the first place.

    So I guess I'm saying to turn it down a notch and work on it. In general, I think the benefit of riding at 75% (or however you want to describe riding quickly, but not hard) is overlooked way too much.

    Not every run has to be for a PR, or even close to one.

  8. #8
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    Depending on your speed and size of G-out you can also try bunny hopping it. Even if you don't clear it completely get the front wheel onto the far side can also work. Preload bike before it and try to hop it. You can also look for a feature on the near side to launch off of. Does not have to be that big to help. Even a root or a rock will help. If the trail has an uphill side that can be utilized too.

  9. #9
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    The obstacle is not unsafe at all, no whoa moment. That's probably partially the issue. It's so smooth on either side of Creek that Im usually going fast, and then hit the 2ft of brief chunk and the fork (or me really I suppose) can't handle it.

    Maybe this is a nooby question but when the fork pings on that chunk, does that imply bottoming out or rebounding too hard or both?

    I can see a manual or Bunny Hop or something working to eliminate the fork hitting that stuff......but I guess I also wanna root out setup issues that could be problematic.

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    Not sure what you mean by (fork pings). Perhaps using the o-ring on the fork (hopefully it has one) as well as the o-ring on the shock set at the beginning stroke and ride just the creek? and see where they end up. If it is smooth entrance and exit the (manual) method usually works pretty good. Post a video.

  11. #11
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    ya i guess i dont really know either......but i assume its the fork bottoming out. the o-ring is usually at the top of the stanchion after that ride.

    i am new to air fork and clearly have not got it dialed. i keep adding more air each ride. i think its near 75/80psi iirc. i weigh 175lbs riding.

    last fork i had was coil/oil circa 1998, so still learning here.

    next time i ride it i'll try to manual. try is key there but gotta start somewhere.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-henson View Post
    Hmm cool thanks. I have not tried to manual into it. I will try that next time through.

    What do you mean by diagonally? Bike diagonal to ground like leaning over? Or diagonal to the obstacle like not hit it head on?
    "Diagonal" meaning ride it with a little swerve: Enter right, exit left - or whatever. Sometimes there is an angle of approach that minimizes that harsh transition. Sometimes not. Sometimes you can get creative without widening the trail.

    The bunny hop is probably a good suggestion if you are a pretty good hopper. I'm not that good at hops so I save that for easier stuff. It's not something I can rely on consistently, but it has helped me completely avoid/clear certain obstacles.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  13. #13
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    Ah I see now. Hmmm maybe, but will examine next time out.

    I went with my non-talented version of a "manual" today, and it seemed helpful - i.e. no bottoming out. Luckily the feature in question is short enough I don't need to do more than a quick wheel pop, and then it's on the other side going up.

  14. #14
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    I'm with Fleas on this one, either actually manual down into the v and put your front wheel onto the opposite side first or un-weight as much as possible and use technique over letting the fork take the impact, which technique depends on how big/long the feature is and how good your manual is.
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