BME Keystone 2016- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    BME Keystone 2016

    I noticed that there wasn't a thread yet for the BME in Keystone this year, so why not kick one off?

    Who's going? What class you racing? What bike will you race? Do you have any questions about the event, venue, or courses?

    I'll be racing the Masters 40+ class with all the other fast old dudes. I'll be on my Intense Tracer T275. And I'm super stoked to be pumped to race something close(ish) to home.

    I raced this event two years ago, but missed last year's event. It was my first enduro race I attempted and ended up in 13th place. This event typically does not include large transfer sections with most of the vertical earned by using the chairlift. Will it be the same this year?

    I do love riding Kestone mountain with over 2000-2500 feet of descending right off the chairlift with lots of different trail types from easy to flowy with berms and jumps to full-gnar.

  2. #2
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    Im planning on it. Im having a hard time deciding on which bike to run. I will need a weekend or two before hand to do some testing. Options are Canfield Riot 29er with 140mm travel or 2015 Big S enduro. Both are rowdy bikes for sure. Just need to see which one I like better at that speed. I know one thing for SURE I will be running a chain guide on whichever bike I choose. I did this race 2 years ago without one. It was a huge mistake. I rode the trails before hand without one and was just fine. However during the race and pedaling over the rough stuff at race speed I would drop the chain at least 2 times a run causing me to end up in right around 30th place in the under 39 class. So if anyone does not have one a narrow wide and clutch rear D will NOT get the job done if you plan on not just coasting down the trail.

  3. #3
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    I'll probably race it again this year. I just hope I don't blow up my shock on the first stage as last year !

    I will be riding on my Megatrail, NW ring and clutch derailleur, no chain guide (I went to the bike park a lot of times last year, not riding at a slow pace, and never dropped a chain). I'll be riding heavy duty DH casing for this one (minion DHF ST front and High Roller 3C Rear).
    I just rode Angel Fire with a MRP Stage, but I'll switch back to my beloved tuned Pike as soon as I get it back (Fast suspension damper and CrConception coil spring)

    I'll be in the 19-39 amateur category.

    I just hope there will be more new singletracks, and not only bike park trails, otherwise, I don't consider it worth it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierp View Post
    I just hope there will be more new singletracks, and not only bike park trails, otherwise, I don't consider it worth it.
    My hangup from the past. Hell, I've seen pictures of guys racing 'enduro' on DH bikes at Keystone (and just pushing the one 500 ft transfer)
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    My hangup from the past. Hell, I've seen pictures of guys racing 'enduro' on DH bikes at Keystone (and just pushing the one 500 ft transfer)
    I think it's great! We've done the opposite end of the spectrum at Santa Fe with 0 shuttles and over 7,500 feet of climbing, then we should also have a stop in the series with very few pedal transitions.

    Also, do you know how those on DH bikes ended up? I'd bet not that well. Those top to bottom stages at Keystone are very long with lots of pedaling. A DH bike might be ideal for a stage or two (which would be short stages), but most people would probably be faster overall on an enduro bike.

    To each his own, I guess. I'd think fewer pedal transitions would go in my favor, but I did better than expected in Santa Fe, so maybe not!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by .thumper. View Post
    I think it's great! We've done the opposite end of the spectrum at Santa Fe with 0 shuttles and over 7,500 feet of climbing, then we should also have a stop in the series with very few pedal transitions.

    Also, do you know how those on DH bikes ended up? I'd bet not that well. Those top to bottom stages at Keystone are very long with lots of pedaling. A DH bike might be ideal for a stage or two (which would be short stages), but most people would probably be faster overall on an enduro bike.

    To each his own, I guess. I'd think fewer pedal transitions would go in my favor, but I did better than expected in Santa Fe, so maybe not!
    I have no idea how they ended up last year, but I've seen a couple of DH bikes indeed at Keystone.

    We'll see how it goes anyway ! It still fun, but my point was more : if I want to ride bike park runs, I'll just go there over a weekend and make 8 laps a day instead of waiting hours at the start of the stages. On the other hand, racing weekend are almost always a good time, even if I suck at it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by .thumper. View Post
    I think it's great! We've done the opposite end of the spectrum at Santa Fe with 0 shuttles and over 7,500 feet of climbing, then we should also have a stop in the series with very few pedal transitions.

    Also, do you know how those on DH bikes ended up? I'd bet not that well. Those top to bottom stages at Keystone are very long with lots of pedaling. A DH bike might be ideal for a stage or two (which would be short stages), but most people would probably be faster overall on an enduro bike.

    To each his own, I guess. I'd think fewer pedal transitions would go in my favor, but I did better than expected in Santa Fe, so maybe not!
    This is what I was posting when MTBR and tap a talk decided not to play well together. I agree, the series just had a ass kicking of a climbing long day to cater to all the "to much uplift in enduro" people. Now it is time to cater to the "can I just ride a lift and rip a trail bike" guys. I think it is a great mix. Top to bottom runs at keystone the way they did it 2 years ago kept me off the DH bike because there was a lot of what I like to call "Around hill" plenty of pedaling and sprinting to keep speed up. Black trail to a green trail around to a blue to another green to a black trail. So a full on DH sled would suck badly on the around trails. Im looking forward to it. Now its down to tire choice, go beefy and heavy or a bit lighter and faster and hope I do not flat.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    This is what I was posting when MTBR and tap a talk decided not to play well together. I agree, the series just had a ass kicking of a climbing long day to cater to all the "to much uplift in enduro" people. Now it is time to cater to the "can I just ride a lift and rip a trail bike" guys. I think it is a great mix. Top to bottom runs at keystone the way they did it 2 years ago kept me off the DH bike because there was a lot of what I like to call "Around hill" plenty of pedaling and sprinting to keep speed up. Black trail to a green trail around to a blue to another green to a black trail. So a full on DH sled would suck badly on the around trails. Im looking forward to it. Now its down to tire choice, go beefy and heavy or a bit lighter and faster and hope I do not flat.
    Well said!

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by .thumper. View Post
    Well said!

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    Yeah actually you're right, the overall serie is pretty good. I'm more enclined to do the backcountry ones, like Santa Fe and and Crested butte, but a good mix of everything is what makes the BME a very decent racing circuit at the end of the year !

  10. #10
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    Heading up there tomorrow to do a few bike shake down runs. Anyone else going to be there?

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    Inside of a week away. Who is in? Im flying solo at the race, all my buddies wussed out after riding there and deciding they were not ready. So keep a eye out for me. Silver and white enduro with blue XTR pedals. Come say hi and shoot the shit while we wait in line for hours.

  12. #12
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    I'll be there with my green Intense Tracer racing the Masters 40+ category! Can't wait for this one! I'll be practicing Thursday.

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    Loose and fast out there today. Hopefully I will find you tomorrow. If not good luck man.

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  14. #14
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    Fun race. For the most part. 2 min worth of wrong turn because of broken tape and going the wrong way. Tore up a lot of parts. Sadly did not get to finish as my shock blew up in grand form going down stage 5 this morning. Overall, it was fun still even with all the issues.

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  15. #15
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    Few pics from the helter entrance

    BME Keystone 2016-uploadfromtaptalk1468246033525.jpgBME Keystone 2016-uploadfromtaptalk1468246061722.jpgBME Keystone 2016-uploadfromtaptalk1468246087524.jpg

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  16. #16
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    The race was fun! I'm a little confused as to where I was losing time to the leaders, though, and wondering why I couldn't get the speed I thought I should have. I did, however, get a rear flat at the top of stage two and rode it out to a 9th place finish for that stage. But my times weren't good enough to claw my way back to the podium and ended up in 8th place overall in the 40+ category about 25 seconds off the podium. Time to refocus the training for Snowmass!

  17. #17
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    Opinions on new Start Time format?

    What did you guys think about the process for start times at this race? For those of you who are interested but weren't there, they posted start times for every racer for every stage instead of only posting a start time for the first stage. Start order was based on ascending plate number within the categories. They did not allow racers to swap start times or change the order unless a racer missed their start time (they did not add time penalties for missing a start time).

    I was a fan of having specific start times for every stage, which I think worked pretty well for a race like this one where all the stages (basically) were lift-accessed and didn't have long pedal transfers. I think it really helped keep things moving and finished the racing quickly each day and you didn't have to wait in line very long. I did think, however, that it was a little tight on time if you needed to do any repairs. I flatted my rear tire on stage two and got my repairs done quickly and was able to make my start time, but I was slightly rushed. I know of others who couldn't make the repairs in time and missed their start time.

    Here's my big issue with the format, but also a place for improvement. Having the same start order every stage means that I had to pass the same three guys on every stage, even with a flat tire. The guy in front of me (my 30 second guy) I got close to, but never passed. I passed my 60, 90 and 120 second guys every stage. My 90 second guy, I found out on Sunday, was a little hard of hearing and attempting to pass him on stages 1, 2 and 3 cost me time each time. On Sunday, at least, I knew to be even louder when attempting to pass and I wasn't held up at all by any of the three I passed on each stage.

    At the start of the stages, riders asked if we could swap start times so that there wasn't so much passing going on, but the starters said that they must adhere to the start order. Which is somewhat of a bummer for all involved. I know the faster guys don't want to have to pass all the time and the guys getting passed don't really want to get passed all the time.

    One of my buddies accidentally missed his start time and was allowed to race his stage at the end of the category and it actually worked out well because there were a few fast racers at the very end of the start order and he didn't have to pass anyone that stage (he ended up with a 5th overall). Which made me tempted to artificially miss my start time so that I didn't have to pass the same three racers again.

    How to improve the start times? Mike Day told me that they had planned to alter the start order for day 2 based on the standings for day 1, which makes a lot of sense and should work out much better on the most part for day 2. But day 1 could still be a mess.

    The way I would suggest to improve this process is ask each rider a question as they pick up their race package at registration. A question that would help determine where the racer would/should start in the category order. I know that when I registered for the EWS, they asked the question: "Indicate based on your previous results / race experience where you would seed yourself in your category". Then seed the racers in that order, and optionally update the order for day 2 based on day 1 results.

    What do you guys think?

  18. #18
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    I really liked the starting set up this time. I have sat for hours on the top of that place waiting to go. This time was much smoother! I even said so when I turned in my chip. I was pretty pissed about loosing 2 mins to the field on stage 3 by going the wrong way because the tap was broken. But even more sho about how I was blamed because I did not preride and know which way I should be going. I was offered a rerun but I was smoked and broke 2 spokes on rear wheel and had a flat that was barley holding together. But overall pretty fun. I'm not a big park rat so I lost quite a bit of time on the over and over tnt, paid in full, milky way runs. Made up alot of time on the bottom half of the mountain in the steeper more natural trails.

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  19. #19
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    Pic of me on Milky Way in the Pinkbike writeup:


  20. #20
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    I was wondering who that was. Nice style points

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by .thumper. View Post

    How to improve the start times? Mike Day told me that they had planned to alter the start order for day 2 based on the standings for day 1, which makes a lot of sense and should work out much better on the most part for day 2. But day 1 could still be a mess.
    I really liked the start time format. I never had to wait in line. I ****ing hate the waiting in line that normally occurs at enduros. Sure there is some socialization going on while waiting but I just want to ride not talk about riding.

    Mike's suggestion is a good one. If they are willing to do the work then we all benefit.

    The situation with passing riders is STANDARD ELEMENT to enduro. That is what we had to deal with in moto enduro and we deal with it in bike enduro. Sure in moto enduro the AA guys get the first couple of rows and they don't seed C riders anywhere close to them. But the C riders have to deal with A and B riders passing them. They learn to anticipate and move. Some get faster and advance. We as 40+ (in general) are the B/C riders out there so we have to deal with varying speed and skills. It is luck of the draw of when you get seeded. Just part of the racing format.

    I also like the minimal amount of classification. Mountain bike racing used to have too many classes and the races ended up going all day. Keep it simple.
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Fun race. For the most part. 2 min worth of wrong turn because of broken tape and going the wrong way. Tore up a lot of parts. Sadly did not get to finish as my shock blew up in grand form going down stage 5 this morning. Overall, it was fun still even with all the issues.

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    I fixed that course tape on Sunday before the pros came down to that spot again on Stage 5. I almost missed my start because I went back uphill after talking to the lower timing guy that couldn't leave his post to go fix it. I secured it with a plastic pipe so it wouldn't blow off again. It was a poorly marked spot that should have had a marshall right there. I gave myself a gold star
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erEverything View Post
    I gave myself a gold star
    Nice work, you deserve that gold star, Colin!

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  24. #24
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    I second that gold star. Well played sir well played.

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  25. #25
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    Richie rude should give me his bike as a reward
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

  26. #26
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    Keystone is always fun! I raced in your class .thumper. Stage #3 sucked big time for me due to the fact that the flagging at the end sucked. Went the wrong way and climbed up that hill instead of going down the road. Super bummed. Have fun in Snowmass. Steamboat for me.
    SHITBIRD

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by helimech View Post
    Keystone is always fun! I raced in your class .thumper. Stage #3 sucked big time for me due to the fact that the flagging at the end sucked. Went the wrong way and climbed up that hill instead of going down the road. Super bummed. Have fun in Snowmass. Steamboat for me.
    Yeah I think I remember you! That's too bad about stage 3. I think a lot of people got messed up there. I didn't go the wrong way, but I almost did and basically came to a stop because of it, so I didn't lose a ton of time, but definitely a few seconds give or take. I feel like I kept losing those give or take seconds all weekend there.

  28. #28
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    I wonder how much of the field went the long way around. That little punch climb was killer. From what times I saw of the guys that re ran it, they made about 2 or so MINUTES up with the re run. Wonder how badly that shook up the field by some re running and some not knowing about it or like myself unable to due to barley surviving the first one with wounded equipment.

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  29. #29
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    For me going the wrong way on #3 didn't phase me due too the fact I was already sucking after crashing on early morning practice and tearing my meniscus in my R/knee. Thanks to gobs of Vitamin I and knee pads I made it thru the wknd. WooHoo.
    SHITBIRD

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