Trans Iowa V3: Need Your Opinions!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Trans Iowa V3: Need Your Opinions!

    Hey guys and gals! It's time for Mr. 24 (KERKOVEJ) and I to get around to thinking about T.I. again. We value this communities opinions, so please respond!

    First: the next iteration of this event is going to be a bit different. The format of self supported, long mileage, and gravel roads will still be there. However; we are going to a loop type course instead of point to point. The logistics of the cross state format were too burdensome on not only Jeff and I, but for the racers as well. Our current thinking has us going in one big loop starting and finishing in Decorah, Iowa in late April. That's all we really have decided on at this point.

    This gives us a centralized point to base our operations out of, a scenic area of Iowa to utilize that has very hilly, challenging terrain, and makes it alot easier for you people to come and ride it.

    Possibilities for the course would include forays into south eastern Minnesota, south western Wisconsin, and perhaps some "real" mountain bike riding on singletrack.

    We are looking for any and all suggestions and ideas, so let em fly!
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  2. #2
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    The loop idea is great. Logistics were why I did not return to TI in 2006.

    Mileage - I'd say make it around 300 miles.

    Course - IMO, make it all gravel, unless you have single track that holds up in April weather.

    Field Size - I'd say open it up to more people. Maybe 100?

    Later, Brett Davis

  3. #3

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    Not that I'm a professional, but here's my three cents:

    I am of the same thinking as GTed as per my impressions of the DK event. However, TI is unique in it's field of endurance events and I think that is part of the draw. I enjoyed the fear of pedalling out into the nothingness of Iowa with loads of uncertainty.

    That said, I agree it would be easier to commit to if travel arrangements weren't an issue, you'd never be half a State away from the start if you need to pull the plug and I can see how the planning end of things would be significantly eased with the circuit approach. I think it could/would be just as epic and there would be no lack of hurt to be found. Perhaps the route could shift around the State each year (some of the back roads of the Loess hills are killer, just a suggestion), this might get people coming back. But of course it's up to fathers of the event to decide what is best.

  4. #4
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    I like the loop idea...

    ...it seemed to work really well in Kansas.

    I agree with Brett's comment above about keeping it all gravel. Conditions can be an event-killer in April, as we saw this year; trying to add singletrack ups the odds on walking and/or trashing muddy singletrack. Also, I hate to think about the kinds of gearing choices this would force on singlespeed riders...

    I like the idea of starting in Decorah; I like Hawarden, but cutting an entire state out of my drive would be welcome indeed. And lets face it; the terrain around Decorah is much more interesting.

    I would also like to see the race be completely unsupported. No midway support, no drop bag, no nothing. Make it 300 miles with towns every 50 miles or so.

    And finally, have a weather policy. I don't care so much about *what* it says, as long as it spells out what conditions will cancel the race. Does a Tornado Warning cancel the event? How about a lightning storm? A rider death (God Forbid!). And what happens if the ride is canceled sort of someone getting to the finish line?

    Keep up the good work! You and Jeff put on a great event, and I am looking forward to hearing more about TI V3.

    Joe
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    Joe Partridge

  5. #5
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Good Comments!

    Good to hear from you three "vets".

    Brett: That makes sense on the subject of "single track". All gravel? C'mon! Not even a "B" level road or two? (just kidding, you know there will be a few of those!)

    Cory: There will still be plenty of that, "where the heck am I" feeling even with the loop course. Well, actually it might be more "why the heck am I out here" feeling! It will definitely be more scenic and hilly!

    Joe: Unsupported with no bag drop or halfway point? I like the way you are thinking! Perhaps we will do it the Dirty Kanza way, with a check in/ out at the halfway, just to be better able to keep track of folks. Thoughts?

    Weather policy would be pretty simple really. In fact, we already have one. If you think it's too dangerous to ride, too wet, too cold, too snowy, or whatever....You quit. As far as the event goes, if the weather gets too sketchy or bad enough that you can not make the time limit, ( ala this year) then the race is over. Simple and easy to put into practice. Because of the stretched out nature of this event, it's the only way we can do it, really. Self supported, self navigated, and self policed (to a point).
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  6. #6
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    'm pretty excited to read about Trans Iowa, but still don't know if I will do it again.

    I like the idea of having a looped course - but don't shorten the mileage. Shorten the B-level stuff. We want to ride, not walk...

    As far as weather: I don't know anything about the climate in Iowa, but what about having the race 4 weeks later? Maybe conditions would be a little more reliable?

    And Joe - get yourself some gears!

    Alex

    http://alexdolpp.blogspot.com

  7. #7
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    I say make it a huge 300ish mile loop and keep the rules the same as the previous runnings of this death march. All I know is that a huge mileage event in this part of the country will have people cursing our names. Not because of the mud or bad road conditions, but rather because of the insane amount of climbing found in the backroads of IA, MN, and WI Instead of calling it Trans-Iowa: V3, we call it...
    The Tri-State Taint Crusher 300

  8. #8
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    Wink it's all good

    The big loop idea sounds interesting and the increase in hills is even better. I loved the valley section that was in this year as it switched things up a little bit.
    My only suggestion is one that I know you won't do but have to ask for anyway.
    No intermediate cut offs.
    As far as I'm concerned your either committed to being out there for the full meal deal ( riders and rds) or your just passing time. There is no support and you guys told your wives when you'd be back so let the course do it's thing. this way you get to see how the race is meant to be seen not the abbreviated courses this year has been known for.
    and yes If I think that the national champ at 9 mile should have to place an Astrix by the win due to it being 19.5 hours, then yes I do.
    Dallas " going to go back to running since they don't close courses down for NOTHING" Sigurdur

  9. #9
    Harmonius Wrench
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    On the subject of time limits........

    The main reason we don't do the Trans Iowa "GDR" style with no time limits is because........we have families and jobs to get back to. I can't be out there forever waiting on somebody that might get to the halfway point or the end of the course if they had all the time in the world to do it. Extreme example? Yes, but I write this to show that some kind of limits had to be imposed, so why not make those limits a factor in the race?

    I respect and admire the determination that folks like Dallas and his Canadian compatriots exemplify, but it's just not practical for Jeff and I to get more time off to allow this event to run much longer than it does. Also, I would be willing to bet that alot of the competitors couldn't afford to spend much more time either. Just a hunch there, but I'm thinking that a three day weekend is about the limit for most folks.

    Finally, the event needs to move along. The time limit makes it obvious to a slow competitor that it's time to pull the plug, so I don't have to go and try to find them to "pull" them. It's definitely another mental element to deal with while you are out there. That's part of the event, and it adds to it another level of challenge.

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  10. #10
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    2 centavos from the peanut gallery.

    If an organized race isn't called and there is an incident due to weather, insurance rates and entrance fees would/have skyrocket. Land managers won't let events occur. It's part of the game like broken equipment, bad dietary choices blah blah blah.

    I vote for more "B" roads. TIv1 was dry, both weekends bracketing v2 were dry and mid 70's. B's were faster than gravel on those 2 weekends. B roads in NE Iowa drain a lot better due to the higher relief, and there's a greater rock component and lesser loess (gumbo, peanut butter) component to the soils. I've spent the past 3 yrs. working on various bedrock mapping projects in the Upper Iowa and Yellow River watersheds. Depth to bedrock is 0 than 5 feet in many places. Gravel in NE Iowa is primarily limestone, not sand.

    If there is a midway checkpoint point, how about the park in Lansing? That'd get people to cursing you!

    dp

  11. #11
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    my random thoughts

    how'about two 150+ mile laps...it may help GTed, Kerkove, et al with simplifying logistics, gives those who are having issues to bail--if you guys chose to make the course silly--and I expect you to(if you DO put the race on...and c'mon, you can't start a thread like this so early,get the interest you know you'd get, and not do the race on again)...i got's other ideas...but at the end of the day, it's you're race guys, and you know I'll be there....

    Dallas, there's gonna be an "unofficial" 4.5 hr "prologue" at US 24 Nat's next yr...who's in???

  12. #12
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    that's cool

    I don't mean to stir up **** as the event is awesome the way it is , I was giving my .5 cent.
    What I actually meant was since it's actually a 30 hour race then lets us spin our wheels for 30 hours. You kids weren't going to pick us up anyways so it goes back to the rule of calling your dnf in when it happens. I reality you only have to visit the course when you feel like it as we're all just going for "a ride" legally anyway.
    Again don't take this as a challenge it's just my thoughts.
    As for the idea of slogging, anything past a sprint in my opinion is a relative slog. You're either going full tilt balls to the wall or you are rationing you mental and physical reserves.
    As for nationals being called, I agree they should have stopped the race and kept it stopped at 5.30 am. The restart was a very very bad and improper call. I also don't consider it a 24 as it never went that far. Anyone who has followed long distance anything (ironman, ultra running / cycling) knows that it's only over when it's over. There was the legendary Julie Moss incident at Hawaii and the recent catastrophic meltdown of the race leader (Brian Morrison) at western states. He was on the finishing track and had basically a few hundred feet to go. If your not familiar with thse epic jouneys the type them up and enjoy the read of your life. they are truely crazy as ****.
    Anything short of the full time limit is a let down. There are trees to be hit , cramps to be had, stomach issues to deal with and then there is the possibility of swinging the other way and starting like **** and bouncing back to total control.
    I'd also like to state that in my mind the difference between long and short is one thing ............lights.
    Am I still allowed to enter T# next year

  13. #13
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmsigurdur
    I don't mean to stir up **** ............
    I wouldn't want it any other way.


    Am I still allowed to enter T# next year
    If you can manage to be one of the lucky ones to get in the field at registration time, then yeah we would love to have you back!

    ........that is IF we decide to do this again! (especially written foy Paddy)
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  14. #14
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    maybe alternate routes?

    like at the kanza they had options to avoid the b-level incase its thick slime time. maybe that would be a good idea. that might make another slog in the rain more sane. a bit over 300 for the length. that would rock to actually complete.

  15. #15
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    OMG, keeping this in NE Iowa, SE Minnesota, and W Wisconsin is gonna rock. 300 miles of that sort of hilliness is going to be brutal.

    Also, unless the weather totally changes mid-event, you never need to worry about the wind being a constant benefit or constant detriment. In 2006 the wind was from the East and was a full-event headwind. With a loop you get a headwind for a while, a crosswind for a while, a tailwind for a while, and another crosswind for a while. This makes the weather a <i>little</i> less of a factor and a little less of a crap shoot.

    I am very excited that it sounds like this is happening again. After my debacle in 2006 I really want another shot at this. My only suggestion is going to be to open the field limit. We spread out quickly enough that it isn't a horde going down the road, and it won't be unless it reaches RAGBRAI proportions. In 2006 there were a ton of no-shows. Every year there have been very large numbers of drop outs enroute. So even if you start with 100 you are likely to end with no more than 25-50, and these people will be spread out over tens of miles.

  16. #16

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    I'm not sure I'll make it out there for the race, but the idea for one big loop gets my vote. Maybe even try a figure 8 with the start, midpoint and finish all in the same place.

    NO LAPS PLEASE.

    More B roads, single track if possible, but no need to tear up someone's local riding area for a road race.

  17. #17
    TEAM TOPEAK - ERGON
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    How about....
    Bluff Raid 300

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonassterling
    I'm not sure I'll make it out there for the race, but the idea for one big loop gets my vote. Maybe even try a figure 8 with the start, midpoint and finish all in the same place.

    NO LAPS PLEASE.

    More B roads, single track if possible, but no need to tear up someone's local riding area for a road race.
    Ingenious. That would provide your half way sag stop right there without a single support vehicle driving an inch. Also, for those who are weak of leg you would have an easier bail out option. Assuming a perfect figure 8, you should be no more than ~75 miles from the start point.

  19. #19
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Wait a minute.........

    Hold on guys.........lets just hold on a minute. While going "tri-state" sounds appealing, it's gonna be a nightmare to pull off in practice.

    I just spent a wad of cash over the weekend on maps and it's not looking good. Very, very limited amount of gravel in south eastern Minnesota and south western Wisconsin. Most "back roads" are paved. The ones that are not paved are little roads to no where or are going to have to be connected by long stretches of pavement.

    I don't want to get anybodies hopes up for a tri-state death march because I think the chances of it happening are less than 10% at this point. I can map out a route in Iowa that would be killer in about ten minutes. Alot of the roads I know. Most of the route would be within a reasonable driving distance from my home.

    It's gonna take a ton of arm twisting and cajoling at this point to get me to want to research this tri-state idea any further. Unless you guys are interested in an event that has about 50% pavement, goes through several high traffic areas, and has to cross a bridge on the Mississippi that is constantly flowing with cars day and night. I've crossed that bridge on a bike and it ain't pleasant! (In fact I swore I'd never do it again)

    At this point, I'd strongly suggest that the route stay in Iowa.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

    It's gonna take a ton of arm twisting and cajoling at this point to get me to want to research this tri-state idea any further. Unless you guys are interested in an event that has about 50% pavement, goes through several high traffic areas, and has to cross a bridge on the Mississippi that is constantly flowing with cars day and night. I've crossed that bridge on a bike and it ain't pleasant! (In fact I swore I'd never do it again)

    At this point, I'd strongly suggest that the route stay in Iowa.
    Dodging casino drunks on a bridge on a Saturday night not enticing? Y
    Last edited by bd.sahib; 08-08-2006 at 12:54 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Hold on guys.........lets just hold on a minute. While going "tri-state" sounds appealing, it's gonna be a nightmare to pull off in practice.
    At this point, I'd strongly suggest that the route stay in Iowa.
    Very true GT- Whilst crossing into WI various times this past weekend my wife asked me how the heck that was going to work crossing the bridges??? While a lot of the towns are pretty bike friendly- the bridges are mostly not. And you are right about Wisconsinites paving the heck out of everything. We need a tri-state ferry as a cutoff. Once past the mississippi the gravel is there but the in between may be a little fishy

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbidwell
    Very true GT- Whilst crossing into WI various times this past weekend my wife asked me how the heck that was going to work crossing the bridges??? While a lot of the towns are pretty bike friendly- the bridges are mostly not. And you are right about Wisconsinites paving the heck out of everything. We need a tri-state ferry as a cutoff. Once past the mississippi the gravel is there but the in between may be a little fishy
    Actually, for MN it is the same story. Minnesota has a very high pavement to gravel ratio, even for farm roads. Not quite as extreme as Wisconsin, but very high. If you know where to look you can find gravel roads, but whether they go where you want to go is another story.

    I guess I was just dreaming of repeated 3 mile climbs out of the Mississippi river valley... Still, the area around Decorah is gorgeous. It wouldn't be that bad to be stuck in that part of Iowa alone. It was the part of Trans Iowa v2 that I was most looking forward to.

  23. #23
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    Just getting people in the mood
    Pics are from a 3 hour gravel march on 8-7-06

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/209344821/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/90/209344821_3d7e720758.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="1" /></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/209344822/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/97/209344822_007fa39226.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="2" /></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/209344823/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/68/209344823_82ff238a9e.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="3" /></a>

    Don't forget about the GTDRI.....
    Last edited by KERKOVEJ; 08-07-2006 at 12:58 PM.

  24. #24
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    that's almost pavement

    why are you always riding on the easy days?
    I know you get crazy weather as my last two events in the area HAD crazy weather. If I were you I'd start showing what it really looks like there, tornado's and crazy amounts of rain.
    Oh and after much though I think I'll start praying for snow for T3 as that seems to be the missing piece.

  25. #25
    Harmonius Wrench
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    "Pavement" is in the eye of the beholder

    Quote Originally Posted by dmsigurdur
    why are you always riding on the easy days?
    I know you get crazy weather as my last two events in the area HAD crazy weather. If I were you I'd start showing what it really looks like there, tornado's and crazy amounts of rain.
    Oh and after much though I think I'll start praying for snow for T3 as that seems to be the missing piece.
    That said, yeah.....that's a pretty easy track. I mentioned that to Carlos when he showed me the pics at work today.

    Too bad you can't roll on down fer the GTDRI, Dallas. You'd not see any gravel like that for 150 miles!

    Gravel varies alot dependant upon maintenance and traffic count. I pick the least traveled routes!

    As for weather: You haven't experienced high humidity, dusty gravel, and incessant wind for a sun drenched day yet? That's weather enough for summertime!
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  26. #26
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    I wish

    I would love to come down for the death ride and endurosnobs epic but I am in fact so far in the hole at work , black is all I can see.
    In the 7 years I have been at the company I have never taken off more than two consecutive week days (my holiday pay is given every check so us hamsters have to keep on the wheel) and I have been fortunate enough to get two days off for TI2 and then two days for nationals this year. In fact to get to nats I pretty much had to sell my soul.
    I also just took on a few jobs to help buddies out and that requires weekends and evenings.
    The pulse side is I will have a new fizik saddle ( because of your recommendations) and possibly some extra cash.
    Will it be worth it?
    who knows.

  27. #27
    your ankles are fat
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmsigurdur
    Will it be worth it?
    who knows.

    I doubt it.

    Quit your job Dallas, and come riding!!!!

    oh, and answer your damn phone!!!!


    Paddy"wont be at GTed's Death ride either" Humenny

  28. #28
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    But look at the conditions

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyH




    Paddy"wont be at GTed's Death ride either" Humenny
    You've seen the crushed rock, now see some dirt and gratuitous pictures of my new Badger http://badgercycles.com/ with G-ted-built wheels.

    Already posted some pics on the 29er board but figured I could get some of my after-work "B" road ride. Very fast right now.

    dp
    Last edited by bd.sahib; 12-04-2008 at 12:18 PM.

  29. #29
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    Ti V.3

    It is great to see that the third version of Trans Iowa is taking shape!

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    Duluth boyz are in...

    I'm in...and at least four of my buddies say their in as well...which means that I am in...
    Charlie

    ps loop sounds like the best way to go...

    pss The Arrowhead 135 held up in Northern Minnesota would make for some great training!!!!

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    Duluth boyz are in...

    I'm in...and at least four of my buddies say their in as well...which means that I am in...
    Charlie

    ps loop sounds like the best way to go...

    pss The Arrowhead 135 held up in Northern Minnesota would make for some great training!!!!

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    Duluth boyz are in...

    I'm in...and at least four of my buddies say their in as well...which means that I am in...
    Charlie

    ps loop sounds like the best way to go...

    pss The Arrowhead 135 held up in Northern Minnesota would make for some great training!!!!

  33. #33
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    Looks like the Duluth boys are in
    As will I - hopefully on bigwheels

  34. #34
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    contingency plans:

    would have been nice to know what would happen if it doesn't work out as planned...

    1. if nobody makes the algona by the cutoff, the first three prizes will be awarded to the first to arrive in algona.

    2. if nobody makes algona, the first two prizes will be awarded to the last two to quit.

    3. if everybody quits at the same time, the first prize will be awarded to whoever has the most mud on his bike.

    don't know if it would've changed my outcome (12 hours is a long time for just 100 miles), but it would have changed my approach to algona if i knew what awaited. as it was, i had no idea there were any prizes as there were obviously going to be no finishers. don't think anyone else did either.

    i know you have no idea how things are going to play out, but a little pre-race contingency info would be a big help. even if we ran into something you didn't mention, we'd have a better idea of the general plan.

    course:

    would be nice to have a course that doesn't turn into a walk and push (or carry) if it gets wet. some percentage is ok, last year's percentage was too high.

    some comments on mark's comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted's blog post about kanza
    The course markings were so good that the riders maps were almost superfluous. You had a 200 mile course marked as well as an XC race course! The self sufficient nature of the event might be enhanced by making the riders rely more on navigational skills.
    i don't know how much i agree with this.

    i know for a fact that most (i'm pretty sure it was everybody, i don't think anyone was left behind us) ti2 racers missed a turn, or rather a straight. it was the part where you were supposed to ride through a road closure roadblock. i'd give more details, but my cuesheets melted.

    i was the only one in my group who noticed it, i mentioned it. everybody else wanted to follow the tracks of the leaders, who clearly went off course. i didn't push, because it clearly wasn't a race anymore, and it was nice to have the company.

    best i can figure, it was a shortcut that cut off a mile or so, and a hill.

    a ribbon, or some flour or chalk, or a monkey or a gnome would have been real handy there. both for the leaders who could have been dq'd (call it carelessness, confusion or a deliberate cheat. personally, i'll bet they have no idea they missed it), and for everybody else who arrived at a cue mark with a road closed sign in front of them, and tracks that went right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted's blog post about kanza
    Eliminate the town cue sheets with the marking tape and the cue sheet numbers will be much more reasonable. Hmmm..............now that I think of it, maybe Trans Iowa should do that!
    would be a nice touch. if you want to put out the effort.

    however, it leaves nothing to fall back on if a cranky homeowner (do you have those in iowa?) or strong wind pulls a sign down.


    i liked it. i'd try it again next year, even if it was exactly the same.

  35. #35
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    My views

    Quote Originally Posted by faucho
    contingency plans:

    would have been nice to know what would happen if it doesn't work out as planned...

    1. if nobody makes the algona by the cutoff, the first three prizes will be awarded to the first to arrive in algona.

    2. if nobody makes algona, the first two prizes will be awarded to the last two to quit.

    3. if everybody quits at the same time, the first prize will be awarded to whoever has the most mud on his bike.

    don't know if it would've changed my outcome (12 hours is a long time for just 100 miles), but it would have changed my approach to algona if i knew what awaited. as it was, i had no idea there were any prizes as there were obviously going to be no finishers. don't think anyone else did either.
    Well, I am sorry, first of all, to you and anyone else that may have gotten more "motivation" to continue if you knew we were going to "hand out prizes for______" (fill in the blank as you see fit) This is a recurring thing that is brought up by several of this past springs event. Here is the reasoning behind what we did. Mind you, it's not an excuse, it's just what Jeff and I decided to do with our event.

    At the moment that we both realized that everyone was outside the time limit for Algona, ( it was obvious to everyone, as you say, that no one was going to make it) Jeff and I decided to get the word out to as many as we could that we were going to download the goodies at Algona where most folks were going to have to pick up their drop bags anyway. We didn't want all the prizing. It was meant for you guys, and we just made it work as best we could at that time. Certainly, as you look backwards upon it, you could probably come up with a thousand contingency plans. We did the best we could with what we had. Which was two vehicles and Jeff and I. Again, my appologies to you and anyone else that felt that we mis-handled the situation for whatever reason. That said, in the same situation, we'd probably do the same thing.

    i know you have no idea how things are going to play out, but a little pre-race contingency info would be a big help. even if we ran into something you didn't mention, we'd have a better idea of the general plan.
    Actually, I thought it was quite simple and clear. If you didn't make the cut off at Algona by six, you were DQ'ed. Your drop bag was supposed to go to Decorah at six. By six, we had a very few drop bags left to pick up, and as everyone had figured out that we weren't having a race anymore by that time, we hung out until all but two bags were picked up. Both made there way satisfactorily to their owners and we had everyone covered. The prizing was ours to dole out as we wished, which we didn't have to do. We just decided to do that.

    course:

    would be nice to have a course that doesn't turn into a walk and push (or carry) if it gets wet. some percentage is ok, last year's percentage was too high.
    For three days of unprecedented soaking rains, you are exactly correct. However, the weekend before and afterwards were fast and perfect. Course wouldn't have been so devastating. Sorry, but I do not control the weather. It's part of the event that is a wildcard. You get what you get and deal with it as best you can. This year, it was too tough.

    i know for a fact that most (i'm pretty sure it was everybody, i don't think anyone was left behind us) ti2 racers missed a turn, or rather a straight. it was the part where you were supposed to ride through a road closure roadblock. i'd give more details, but my cuesheets melted.
    If you are talking about the right turn at the top of a hill outside of Sutherland it was actually you that went the wrong way. As you say, not that it mattered any more at that point


    i liked it. i'd try it again next year, even if it was exactly the same.
    Well, you are certainly welcomed back, but it won't be like last year and it will be alot like last year. You'll just have to wait and see!
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    Wink where is the love?

    I get home from my night shift and decide to check the forum to see if something new and exciting is happening ( actually I've been on the road ones lately as the drama there is threw the roof ) and I find out we might be rehashing the past .
    I suggest that we only talk about the possibility of the new T3 ride and let the years past be the past. I mean really do we need to be reminded that nobody finished?
    Do some people need to be reminded that they packed it in early ?
    Do we need to be reminded that we are not kids and can buy **** ourselves and not have strangers give us stuff ?
    what happened happened I say and lets just let Jeff and GT decide what we'll be doing next year.
    In fact I'm suggesting bowling with the bike portion to and from the lanes?
    and I also suggest no prizes , if you want stuff work harder and buy it yourself
    I can honestly say that I would love to run an event like this but I know none of you would come.
    In fact i would have maps just like T2, no prizes , make you start at night , have a hard finish line cut off ( that's it , you said you could ride for that long when you signed up now prove it) and ban anyone who drops out and doesn't call in.
    Ah what do I care right now I have a hundred mile run in 5 weeks and they don't shut those down early , you just shut your self down.

  37. #37
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    Opinions Wanted.

    Yes we value any and all opinions. But also keep in mind that we run this the way we see fit. Alot of the draw to this event from you the racers and the sponsors is the wacked-out factor. There are not many events like this. It's long. It's solo. It's in Iowa. And...it's very hard. Just like other events around the world...this one is not for everyone. Only those who are searching for a true test of mind, body, and nature need apply. With that said, G-Ted and myself want all comments. It's not saying we'll use all suggestions, but it helps to give you the racers an event to come to. Let the 2 be spoken....

    Jeff "There is no way I can run 100 miles like a crazy Canadian" Kerkove

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    sorry, didn't mean to start what i started. they were just comments.

    mark and jeff have the right to promote it the way they want to. it's a unique event because they make it that way.

    the field will fill, no matter what changes they make. and if i don't sleep through registration again, i'll probably be there myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    If you are talking about the right turn at the top of a hill outside of Sutherland it was actually you that went the wrong way.
    so, which was correct (hill outside sutherland(?), where a bunch of folks quit at the store)?

    1. straight thru the road closed (downhillish)?

    2. bear right slightly (uphillish)?

    oh, and for the name? i think you ought to keep the one you got. it isn't exactly 'trans' anymore, but it is the third year of the event. if you rename it, you can't use a 3.

    i guess you could make everyone wear evening gowns and say the 'trans' is for 'transvestite'.

  39. #39
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    Wait. I don't think that anyone who did Trans-Iowa did it for phat loot. They did it for a sense of accomplishment. The sense that someone put down a challenge, and that they were able to meet the challenge.

    If I wanted to challenge myself, I would just go and challenge myself. If I wanted to see if I could ride 300 miles in a given time, I could just go and do it. But there is no fun in that. The fun is when someone says "here is the challenge, can you do it" and you then go and attempt it with a group of like minded individuals.

    Some challenges are totally impossible. If there was a challenge to ride across the state of Iowa in 4 hours, no one could do it, period. And it turns out that if someone issues a challenge to ride across Iowa on B roads with a week of soaking rain and with a constant headwind, it is just as impossible.

    The question Faucho is putting forward is whether an impossible goal, such as happened in Trans Iowa V2, should be revised on the fly to make it possible. Or at least, whether contingency plans should be put into place to deal with impossible to finish conditions.

    I can tell you one thing. If Algona had been the revised, official end point I would have kept going. As it was, it was not considered an official finish by any stretch of the word, and I quit early. I think that a good chunk of other riders would have done the same.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by faucho
    oh, and for the name? i think you ought to keep the one you got. it isn't exactly 'trans' anymore, but it is the third year of the event. if you rename it, you can't use a 3.

    i guess you could make everyone wear evening gowns and say the 'trans' is for 'transvestite'.
    Except for the girls; they would have to wear...pants, I guess?
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  41. #41
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    (Ahem!) Moving right along now.......

    I've come to the conclusion, along with Jeff, that the loop course is going to be one of two ways. I'm putting this up to the veterans and interested parties to get your feedback. Okay? here it is.........

    Option #1: Start and finish in Decorah. No real halfway point. No drop bags. No support. 300-ish miles. 30 hours finishing time limit.

    Option #2: Start and finish in Waterloo/ Cedar Falls Ia. Half way point back in W'loo/ C.F., Possibility for "drop bag". No other support. 330 - 350 miles. 35 hour time limit.

    Okay, here's poll # 2. It's got to do with navigation. Ready? Go!

    Option A: Map of route handed out to competitors at start or even down loadable on line before hand. Only first half though. Second half has to be earned! (See Dirty Kanza 200 for example of map) No course markings.

    Option B: Traditional cue sheets. Just like in past T.I. events. No preview, and you must earn second set of sheets. No course markings.

    Okay, discuss amongst yourselves!

    This thread was getting waaay to focused on the past and not looking forward. No more.
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  42. #42
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    Kinna would like

    A-1 action a 300 mile loop with maps and no drop bag crap....

    thats just me though I wouldn't be to upset with 300 + though
    Read my BLOG!

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    1a

    1 for route. coming back to the start town in the middle would be too much like starting over.

    seems like 2 (cause it's local) would be easier for you to promote.

    prefer a to b.

    map's better than cue sheet as long as the route is clear. can't find the dirty kanza example.

    i do not think first half maps (or cue sheets) should be available online.

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    1b

    300 miles and 30 hours is plenty, esp. with the hills that I remember from the area in question.

    I think the map idea is ok, but some type of course marking at questionable corners would be required. I remember sitting at several intersections during DK wondering which way to go, and that was with many corners marked. The cue sheets from TI 1 and 2 were great--I wouldn't change a thing.

    Joe
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  45. #45
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    here's to moving forward!

    I'll take combo 2B please....

    ....with an extra helping of sweet & sour pork :>

  46. #46
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    1b

    I see it like Joe. Que sheets que you look for the sign and know which way to turn. DK everything was so well marked at most turns, it took us by surprise when it wasn't. It was hard to read the print (road names) on the maps on the fly. Who am I kidding, I was so far otb I just followed tire tracks...

  47. #47
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    I say 1. No support whatsoever. Makes life easier for you, is more of a challenge for us. I also love the Decorah area, and think the more riding in the hilly area around there the better. If it starts and stops there I guaruntee more climbing than if it starts West of there.

    I don't really care if I get a map or cue sheets. Either way is fine by me, as long as the map has enough detail.

    Whether it is downloadable before hand or not, I see the differences in that it allows people to be able to

    a) preride the course
    b) make more informed decisions about gearing, distance between water stops, etc
    c) allows significant others to figure out good places along the course to spectate/help a rider bail out/etc.

    If you don't mind any of these happening, post it. If you do, don't. I can see this one both ways. You can either blind fold us to the last second so the whole thing is more of an "adventure", or you can give us the info before hand so we are better prepared.

    If you just want to prevent people from pre-riding it, post it a night or two before the race. Then we can make mental preparations about gearing, set up spectator points, etc, but not allow enough time for a pre-ride.

  48. #48
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    A little course info to help you.

    First off, thanks for voting your preferences guys. This is exactly what we are looking for. Feel free to elaborate a bit.

    Now as far as Option #2 goes, just because it would start and stop in the W'loo/ C.F. area doesn't mean that we wouldn't be going through Decorah. (We will no matter what) Also, don't think for a minute that the Decorah area is the only area in Iowa with major climbing.

    ........now, please continue voting!
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    hmmmmm

    This is actually pretty cool as the options are very different.
    I'd say that my vote goes for...2b . No advantage to locals and the distance is still painfully far.
    Having participated this year I now see that the stores on the route are in fact drop bags so i don't care if we pack our own for the course.
    Dallas " do I have to start training for T3 already?" Sigurdur

  50. #50
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    1B - 300 miles with a cue sheet. couldn't be finer.

  51. #51
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    1/2 B

    Make that 1/2 A not B

    I vote for both 1 and 2. I think it would be easier for the organizers if it started in their home town as stated in option 2. But, I like the one big loop with no support part of choice 1. I also like option A for the second poll. A map like at DK with mileages at the turns would be great. I think its easier to visualize where I'm going with a map rather than que sheets.

    Dave "Trans-Iowa Groupie" Simmons

  52. #52
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    Website is being updated!

    <a href="https://transiowa.blogspot.com"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/88/212878422_5de9c8d262_o.png" width="760" height="354" alt="CLICK THE PICTURE TO GO TO THE SITE..." /></a>
    Last edited by KERKOVEJ; 08-12-2006 at 02:56 PM.

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    Something in a bikini, mesh if possible...

    Sorry, wrong poll.

    Option 1. I really don't care about the map situation though. Good directions are good directions, no matter how they are provided. I would trust G-Ted and Jeff to do what's best based on the course.

    I do not, however, trust them when it comes to the weather.

  54. #54
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    I don't have time to read the entire thread right now, so I appologize if this is duplcated...

    I like the idea of more singletrack. I hear there are trails around Prairie du Chien WI, the Quad Cities and near La Crosse Wi that you could perhaps incorperate. Having the course run in and out of the Mississippi Valley would make it that much more challenging.

    As for B road vs trails and less well maintained roads, I expect it wouldn't be TOO hard to plot out a route of the latter as well as alternative B road routing in case of wet conditions. A few days before the race make the descision as to whether it is dry enough for the potentially sloppier, more challenging route and go to press with the maps or directions or whatever for that route.
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  55. #55
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    Mark and Jeff

    Good to see that both of y'all are puttin' on another one. Whether I get to race it or not, thanks in advance for putting in all the time and effort.

    Although I have yet to finish a TI event, I thought I'd toss in my couple pennies:

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    I've come to the conclusion, along with Jeff, that the loop course is going to be one of two ways. I'm putting this up to the veterans and interested parties to get your feedback. Okay? here it is.........

    Option #1: Start and finish in Decorah. No real halfway point. No drop bags. No support. 300-ish miles. 30 hours finishing time limit.
    Yes, yes, yes. No damn drops. No support. Need somethin' you forgot? There's a Casey's in the next hour or two--get it then and learn from your mistake.


    Okay, here's poll # 2. It's got to do with navigation. Ready? Go!

    Option B: Traditional cue sheets. Just like in past T.I. events. No preview, and you must earn second set of sheets. No course markings.
    Key words: No preview! Hand 'em out with less than 30 minutes to start. No hints or leaked info like in TI V.1--make it a surprise, and make us earn it.

    Other thoughts:

    -If I'm not mistaken, Decorah has piles of singletrack. Make us do a 'parade lap' or two (~10+ miles) on it at the start, and maybe even a lap or three at the finish. Yes, gravel roads and B roads will form the bulk of the mileage, but we're mountain bikers (even if we choose to ride something different for the race) and we'd like to have a little real trail thrown in. Not only would it be fun and keep us on our toes, it'd force people to think a little more critically and conservatively about gear choices. That, or pay the price.

    -Send us to some other singletrack loops, preferably at night, for even more miles. Waterloo/CF? LaCrosse? Hell, send us down to Dubuque to ride the bluffs down there...

    -If I remember correctly, the Decorah area has lots of hills. Use all of them, as often as you can. Make us suffer. Make those of us who brought aero bars pour sweat and drool onto them, and wonder why we're lugging that extra weight up every damn hill in NE Iowa.

    -If at all possible, keep the B roads to a maximum (~60+%) and the gravel to a minimum. Maybe make us climb all the gravel hills around Decorah, etc..., then send us out on a big B-road sufferfest loop before bringing us back for more hills. I understand that gravel roads are what form the bulk of the Iowa 'backcountry', but that doesn't mean that's all that's out there. Be creative. Show us something different. Give us something to remember.

    -Be merciless and diabolical. If an idea pops into your head for a course routing that seems too hard, too long, too ridiculous, use it. Twice. Please.

    -Please don't let this race become like all the others. Anyone can finish a 24 or a 100 miler. Anyone can finish a team adventure race. I love that this year's TI had zero finishers. I think that's the measure of a good ultra event: Some years, no one can do it. It's happened in the past at the Grand Loop, and it's certain to happen again. Good.

    -Please don't dumb it down to encourage more entrants and more finishers. If anything, do the opposite--make it so hard and so ruthless that you scare 'em off before they even think about filling out the entry form. If they ask for details, laugh maniacally and tell 'em they don't get no stinkin' details...

    That's all I've got right now.

    I'll check in in a few days to see how things are progressing.

    Thanks again.

    MC

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    hmmmmm

    Now I in no way want to question the guru mike but i think that the B grade roads ( which in Manitoba are in fact farmers access roads and not intended for travel, in fact they are only used to get fuel to machinery and such) which were black soil when wet pretty much make you walk as we all did this year. Now everyone knows I'm a runner foremost so it doesn't bother me to much but walking a bike for literally miles seems to go against the bike race idea. I am all for a hard course but I think the soil "road " was the nail in almost everyones coffin. In fact I'd go so far as to say the riding didn't do allot of people in the walking did.
    I think the soil roads should have alternate routes in case of rain that way people can ride to their hearts content.
    Actually now that I've read what I wrote I come off as an *******. sorry .
    Dallas " I'll be there if McNaughton doesn't have a 150 mile run in April " Sigurdur

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    1, B

    Decorah is a great place to start and finish. I'm not all that opposed to starting in Cedar Falls, but I like the idea of no drop bag. As for maps and course markings, I'm more used to maps. That's what I use on my training rides. On the other hand since much of Iowa is a grid of gravel it's pretty easy to miss a turn if you don't know the road name. On my training rides I deal with this by not caring and going with the flow, but that won't fly during a race.

    Regardless I'll be there next year. Anything this good this close to home is not to be missed.

    Matt Maxwell

  58. #58
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    Checking in.......

    First of all....Thanks to all who have responded and given us your thoughts! You guys are appreciated. I respect your talents as cyclists and Jeff and I both regard your opinions carefully.

    It looks as though the majority would like to see a loop course out of Decorah and to have the cue sheet navigation model employed. So let it be written! So let it be told!

    Work on course planning has already begun.

    Next option to consider: The Start Time!

    I have started both of the previous two T.I. events from the lead out van and here is my take: I like the night time start. Here's why: It's spectacular, for one thing. Seeing all those head lights and blinking red LED's is just too cool. Also, it gives the event a whole different feel that was at once more epic but also more intense. If I recall, the post dawn start of T.I. #1 was rather dull in comparison.

    Here's why I don't like the night time start: Hills. Dangerous downhills to be precise. You guys think you can handle it? Then convince me and we'll start at night.

    ........on second thought, we might just start at night anyway!
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  59. #59
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    Real downhills just mean you can't use minimal lights for the night portions. Make the race hard and we'll find out if it's possible to finish.
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    I would love to see the start and finish in Decorah with a half way point coming close to Decorah again. I love the idea of adding some single track, but that is only if it is rideable. Carrying my near 50 pound bike (with the added mud) from last year was not fun.

    If you have maps then please consider having the course marked. At night it would have been hell with the maps they had at DK if they hadn't had the turns marked. Personally, I like the cue sheets.

    Also, how about a higher limit of entrants.... Say 100.

    I would like to know the pass through towns a few days before the start so I know what to plan for food.

    Picky aren't I ?!!?

    Thanks again for doing all of this!

  61. #61
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    No comments so far about the start time. I assume this means no one really has a strong opinion.

    My own take about the start time for V2 was that I couldn't sleep the night before. I was up all night, strung out because I was thinking about the race the next morning and worried about sleeping through the alarm clock at the godaweful time I had to get up.

    Other than that, the start time was fine. But if it were up to me, the worrying insomniac, I would choose to start even earlier in the morning. As in, the night before. A midnight start, for instance. That way I wouldn't even try to sleep at all. Awake all day, get ready for the race, then race. Heck, you could spend the day before travelling to the start and do away with the need for a hotel altogether. People who lived 8 hours away could potentially start driving to the start at 3:00 pm the day of, get there at 11:00, jump on their bike and away they go.

  62. #62
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    starting direction

    One other thing. You might consider the directions of travel to prevent us from riding directly into a sunrise or sunset. I know traffic is a near non-issue, but a bike riding into the sunrise or sunset is very hard to see. In Trans-Iowa we were headed towards the East for the whole thing, so there was no choice. But for a loop course you could generally guide us not-East in the morning and not-West in the evening.

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    Ooohm

    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    In Trans-Iowa we were headed towards the East for the whole thing, so there was no choice.
    According to the Legendary Aphids, "It don't mean a Feng if it aint got that Shui."

  64. #64
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    It's supposed to be tough.

    So, what I'm hearing is that we should start at dawn and run it clockwise, right?
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    So, what I'm hearing is that we should start at dawn and run it clockwise, right?
    Doh!

    Seriously, though, start time isn't that big a deal, and likely why no one responded. Just some musings from someone who couldn't sleep the night before. Any time you start it at is going to be fine.

    And since traffic is so light, direction isn't a big deal either. It would just make it easier for the 2 cars that pass us over the first 14 hours of daylight if we weren't riding into the sun.

  66. #66
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    Hey, I'll add my ideas too

    I've made a big switch from "make it tough, har, har, you're a wimp" to "let's make it long but possible for halfway "normal" people" since riding the first 29% of the TI2.

    300 miles max, maybe 250 would be better

    start at a nice, relaxing 8am or so

    figure 8 would be AWESOME...just in case. Or a loop, that'd be OK too. That 100% headwind was pretty tough

    no drop bags

    post the course so we could strategize, post 1/2 of the course if you want

    alternate routes around level B's if it's really muddy like this year

    larger field, it's a self supported "you're responsible for you" kinda event anyway so I'd hope it wouldn't be too much work to have more entrants. Maybe you could have an expensive "racer" entry and a cheap "rider"entry or something. Racers could get prizes (?), riders could get the satisfaction of an epic ride and some company. Then again, it might be exponentially more work for more people, I obviously have no idea. But a larger field would be nice

    Maybe no prizes? You could have a big book, finishers could be written down (name, age, city, or something), the book could be kept and updated every year, maybe a cool pin or patch for finishers, kinda like the Paris-Brest-Paris event.

    Just Iowa (...and maybe a few miles in the great state of Illinois..) but just Iowa sounds easier and will be just as fun as the "tristate challenge"


    My wife added that she's against the loop because she'll won't be able to visit those really neat small towns in Western Iowa. But I think she'll get over it. They were cool tho

    Thanks in advance for the 07 event

    Joe "I'm not a wimp, really!" Frost

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    Don't care one way or the other if there's drop bags or whatnot... 300 miles is about right... I thought the cue sheets you guys have put together the last two years were spot-on perfect. The map for DK worked, but it was tricky at times. At 2:00pm, no biggie... at 2:00am, well, I really don't want to get lost or be f*ing around with a difficult-to-read map at 2:00am...

    Everybody's gung-ho on hills, hills, and more hills, which is cool, but flat stuff is okay too - be sure to keep that "big-sky" feel to it... in the middle of nowhere, out on the lone prai-ree, where you can see for 30+ miles... that's the appeal of riding Iowa to me. I like hills, but I don't want to be down in the bottom of river valleys the whole time.

    I also like the idea of lots of B-roads, with inclement-weather options (ala Dirty Kanza) to bypass most or all of 'em if they're impassable.

    Lastly, my $.02 is don't put the route map out ahead of time. Get it that morning and follow the adventure.

    Thanks for coming back with V.3!

    -Nate in Kansas City

  68. #68
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    outside

    As one who as followed this event online for the last 2 years, and as one who is considering this event this coming spring.
    I like the idea of a midnight start.
    Starting in Decorah , Then looking to Mason City , Then perhaps Fort Dodge and then down and back? No drops. Hitting the single track and B roads , as much as possible, along the way?
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  69. #69
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    Starting to formulate "My Plan"

    First of all: Thanks to all of you for taking out some time to tap out your thoughts here. I appreciate the well thought out opinions that you have put forth.

    The Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational was held this past weekend. I bring this up because it was a "mini-version" of what T.I.V3 is going to look like. The course was well recieved. I want to duplicate something based on the GTDRI course for T.I.V3, only it'll be longer, (300 miles, give or take) and it'll be necessarily tougher, ( more hills, more "non- gravel" stuff)

    So, the course ideas are being worked on, with consulting and research being done now. In October, Jeff and I hope to be able to drive/ ride a major portion, if not all of, the course for the first time. After this is completed, we will announce the final formatting for the event. For example, the times, and anything else special pertaining to the event.

    As it stands now, the event will most assuredly start in the dark, be totally unsupported, (no drop bags- no halfway rest stop) and it will be a loop course. No "figure 8", no point to point. Not this year anyway. Probably 30 hours duration, but that may be stretched out due to course layout. Finally, there will be "observed checkpoints" in secret locations. This will be done to - 1. keep track of you, the racer, so we know who's still in or out, and -2. to help deter cheaters. The fact that you won't know the route until just before start time will also help in stopping cheaters.
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  70. #70
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    Thoughts Needed On This.........

    Jeff was brainstorming at work with me today and came up with this idea, which I think is fantastic. We would like to get a little feed back on it though. Check this out...........

    No entry fee: Well, not really, there is a catch! We were thinking that there might be a foodbank, or some charity that we could donate to. What we would like to have you entrants do is bring five cans of some kind of food or other to donate as your entry fee. We also were thinking of making the feild limit 100 riders. No more than that. We are not funded to pay for people to watch over you guys and 100 is perhaps too many, but as you veterans know, we probably won't see that many people show at the start line.

    Here's where it gets sticky. We were thinking that since you really don't have a monetary commitment, we would have you "register" for cue sheets. We were thinking of having you e-mail in your registration to get on the roster, but we are not decided on when to hold that registration.

    We are going to eat the costs of printing the cue sheets, which is a nominal fee for being party to watching so many suffer! Anyway, we obviously don't want to print 100 sets of cue sheets if only 75 are going to take the start. We thought about holding off the official registration until about two weeks prior to the event. Obviously, that's not an ideal situation. Any ideas? Before, we have always had several sets of extra cue sheets, but the entry fees covered it, so no biggie. This year, no entry fee, so we would like to limit the overage to as little as possible.
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    Some of us are big time planners

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    We thought about holding off the official registration until about two weeks prior to the event. Obviously, that's not an ideal situation. Any ideas?

    I'd sure like to vote for registration a little farther out. It takes a big time commitment for an event like this and it would be....let's just say "less than ideal"....to train hard all winter and not get in because of some dumb reason on the entrants part. Probably everybody interested would be training a little all winter but it's different "trying to get in shape for spring" and this event.

    Now about ideas, one is that you can register but if you register and don't show you don't get to come back in 2008 (if there is going to be a 2008 event). You can transfer your entry to somebody else or back to the organizers but you can't just enter and not show, even tho it is "free"

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    Friday Night "Lottery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Jeff was brainstorming at work with me today and came up with this idea, which I think is fantastic. We would like to get a little feed back on it though. Check this out...........

    No entry fee: Well, not really, there is a catch! We were thinking that there might be a foodbank, or some charity that we could donate to. What we would like to have you entrants do is bring five cans of some kind of food or other to donate as your entry fee. We also were thinking of making the feild limit 100 riders. No more than that. We are not funded to pay for people to watch over you guys and 100 is perhaps too many, but as you veterans know, we probably won't see that many people show at the start line.

    Here's where it gets sticky. We were thinking that since you really don't have a monetary commitment, we would have you "register" for cue sheets. We were thinking of having you e-mail in your registration to get on the roster, but we are not decided on when to hold that registration.
    .
    OK how about unlimited number of riders show up for pre-race "meal" with foodbank donation or whatever, say at T-Bocks around 6. (Raises the number of potential donations.) Every race canidate consumes a predetermined number of shots of aquavit, in keeping w/ the Nordic Tradition. Over 100 left? Beer-a-Laps around the Luther football field on bikes til 10-ish or so. Derby if number exceeds 100 til midnight. Midnight start of race.

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    Special Request

    I was looking at my calandar for next year, and I found something that worries me. My wife will be graduating from her MBA program on April 28, 2007! Needless to say, that is a "must-attend" event for me.

    So, my request is this: Please schedule TI3 for April 14-15 or 21-22 in 2007! I bet there will be a case of Founder's Ale in it for ya...
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    I think that donating to a charity is a terrific idea. I remember getting asked after doing the Boone 24hr race. "What was the $70 for? Was it for charity?" I said no and felt kinda bad about it. I understand the amount of work that goes into these things and I naturally accept the costs and the benefits. But it got me thinking that riding for a cause beyond proving something to myself has a little extra "feel good" attached to it...a little more purpose. I would whole heartedly support the idea, though I would still contribute whatever to the race organizers. I know you guys aren't out to make money, but some things need paying for. Good luck!

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    If we are reading this, we have a computer. And likely we have access to a printer. I say you just Email a PDF with the cue sheets attached. Email it soon before the event (day before? Week before?) and have the riders print it out for ourselves. Total cost to you? $0.00.

    I also suggest registration happen a long ways before the event. It is the earliest event on the calendar. If you know you are racing Trans Iowa you simply have to start training earlier than if you know you aren't. I was very concerned about not getting in for V2 during a January registration after starting my training in November. And trust me, there is no way I would have been on a stationary bike in November if I didn't think I was going to ride Trans Iowa in April!!!

    About the food donation thing. I am all for a charity fundraiser, but, a food donation from those of us from out of town/state/country will help those in Waterloo/Cedar Falls. You might get a stronger response if you open the charity from a local one to a more universal one. For instance, the Red Cross. You might say something like "Recommended $10 donation" but get even more from people willing to give more. You ask for food and you will get people bringing a can of corn or a box of cereal.

    Finally, the surprise check points. Want to make life easier for you? Follow the example of brevets. Have us go to gas stations along the route and get a signature and time through the checkpoint from the clerk. We won't know the clerk's name, but you would. At the end of the event we turn in our cards, you verify the names and times. End result? You don't have to sit around at 3 am waiting for we hapless riders to ride by.

  76. #76
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    Food for Thought

    To handle registration, you could use a 100% off coupon within a online registration process. This would let you register racers per usual, without charging a fee, then those racers would be required to bring their donation to the race. All you would have to do is post the Coupon id on the transiowa site before registration, then it's first come first serve as usual (long live the Rogue Seven.)

    This would solve allow registration to be early for planning, let Jeff and Mark create the appropriate number of cue sheets, and take donations however that might be appropriate.

    Who feels like a geek? That would be me.

    One a different note. I like 75 riders.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endurosnob
    To handle registration, you could use a 100% off coupon within a online registration process. This would let you register racers per usual, without charging a fee, then those racers would be required to bring their donation to the race. All you would have to do is post the Coupon id on the transiowa site before registration, then it's first come first serve as usual (long live the Rogue Seven.)

    This would solve allow registration to be early for planning, let Jeff and Mark create the appropriate number of cue sheets, and take donations however that might be appropriate.

    Who feels like a geek? That would be me.

    One a different note. I like 75 riders.
    I guess I don't get it. Why have a coupon at all?

    With the coupon idea you pay nothing, bring a donation. Guitar Ted's original idea was to pay nothing, bring a donation. Seems to me like you are adding an extra step without gaining anything.

  78. #78
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    It all hinges on whether or not Mark and Jeff want to register people online again. With the right system, this could all be done for free.

    The people who gain are Mark and Jeff because they get a clean and simple online registration in terms of how the information is handled. The process remains the same as any paid online signup for racers. It's an extra field, not an extra step.

    Anyway, back to bikes. I don't want to bore people to tears. (Maybe Dallas :-) )

  79. #79
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    Just to clear some things up, in case there is a misunderstanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    If we are reading this, we have a computer. And likely we have access to a printer. I say you just Email a PDF with the cue sheets attached. Email it soon before the event (day before? Week before?) and have the riders print it out for ourselves. Total cost to you? $0.00.
    Nice, but no cigar. We are not releasing any details about the course. You will find out where you are going when you see the first cue sheet about the time you roll up to the start line this time. Due to "leakage" experiences that we have had in years past, we are going to tighten up security a little.

    I also suggest registration happen a long ways before the event. It is the earliest event on the calendar. If you know you are racing Trans Iowa you simply have to start training earlier than if you know you aren't. I was very concerned about not getting in for V2 during a January registration after starting my training in November. And trust me, there is no way I would have been on a stationary bike in November if I didn't think I was going to ride Trans Iowa in April!!!
    I agree with this. Remember, I said that the registration for cue sheets idea was not "ideal". I think Enduro Snob has an answer that will appease the "steering committee". I'll let you know about it if it pans out.


    About the food donation thing. I am all for a charity fundraiser, but, a food donation from those of us from out of town/state/country will help those in Waterloo/Cedar Falls.
    Actually, it was the folks from the Decorah/ Winneshiek County area that we had in mind.


    You might get a stronger response if you open the charity from a local one to a more universal one. For instance, the Red Cross. You might say something like "Recommended $10 donation" but get even more from people willing to give more. You ask for food and you will get people bringing a can of corn or a box of cereal.
    Again, I was floating an "idea", so nothing is hard and fast yet. I think your idea deserves some consideration.

    Finally, the surprise check points. Want to make life easier for you? Follow the example of brevets. Have us go to gas stations along the route and get a signature and time through the checkpoint from the clerk. We won't know the clerk's name, but you would. At the end of the event we turn in our cards, you verify the names and times. End result? You don't have to sit around at 3 am waiting for we hapless riders to ride by.
    Actually, I really don't mind following the event around. In fact, I find it a challenge and I enjoy doing it. Brevet? Gas Station checkpoints? Nah! Why pester poorly paid convenience store clerks at 3am.? Besides, it's not where I would want the checkpoints to be. Nobody is going to cheat off a section of the course that includes a place where they are going to re-supply, ya know what I mean?
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    august still and preparing for the april ass kicking

    I think the since Joe-jitsu is one of the few vets his humble request should be heard. He deserves that.
    As for starting, stopping, eating exc , it's all good but I would like another drive by the mallard bar as it seems like a home to me now. Yes they treated us like family and even wanted to get us drunk. What more can you ask of a rest stop.
    Dallas " I have a 100 mile run in two weeks and I'm freakin out" sigurdur

  81. #81
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    O.b.a.l.p.

    My .02
    Loop is a great idea, better than a figure 8 as quitting could be mentally contagious. I don't think you will have a probelm lining up volunteers for checkpoints this way either. Most volunteers want to be a part of the action and take it all in, whereas that would have been hard last year having to traverse the state and all. And I am 100% for a non-release of course info till gun time. May the logistically challenged beware. (myself).
    I also think an early preregistration would be neccessary to give our winter suffering some validation. Make the cue sheets for the number registered and possibly note a small charge for a no-show. I may be ignorant here but I would think we all know and somewhat trust the field that will be applying. 75 sounds like a pretty good number to me.
    And I am pretty sure that mother nature doesn't have a beef w/ Mark after the perfect GTDRI conditions.

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    Not to be contrarian, but

    I would vote for the race to be across the state. Without that, the race wouldn't really be any different than any one of a couple dozen 24hour races across the midwest. It would be much cooler to say you raced across the whole state.

  83. #83
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    24 hr gravel grinders?

    Quote Originally Posted by ezrahallam
    Without that, the race wouldn't really be any different than any one of a couple dozen 24hour races across the midwest.
    Huh? Where?

  84. #84
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    Perhaps a primer is in order........

    Quote Originally Posted by ezrahallam
    I would vote for the race to be across the state. Without that, the race wouldn't really be any different than any one of a couple dozen 24hour races across the midwest. It would be much cooler to say you raced across the whole state.
    Really, there couldn't be more difference between a 24hr event and T.I. Well, unless we all rode uni cycles.

    Trans Iowa is going to be almost entirely on gravel roads and soil roads. Going in a large circular pattern over eastern Iowa in a clockwise direction, riders will take up to 30 hours to cover 300 plus miles with self navigated directions on cue sheets. Remember that in this scenario 30 hours must include all riding time and non-riding time. Unlike a 24hr event, where there is no set distance to cover, T.I. participants must cover the mileage set out by the race directors within the specified time limit, or they are DQ'ed.

    This is why there is no sitting down till your stomach settles, no taking a nap during the night time portion of the event, no "pits" to change out bikes, parts, or clothing. No one to hand you up any refreshments. No one cheering you on. No one but you and the rest of the competition, slugging it out in Iowas boondocks. You are self supported, self navigated, and self motivated.

    No, no......it's so unlike a 24 hour event. There really is no comparison.

    (There's a press release for ya! )
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    Back to the course issue. What about something like Montezuma's Revenge? I think they do several loops from the same starting point. How about making 5 or so loops 40-80 miles long. Make enought mileage to make it close to impossible to finish and have a 30 hour time limit. You must complete one loop before getting the cue sheet for the next. That would cut down on the race organizers being strung out a huge course, you could also keep track of where everyone is at.

  86. #86
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    Hmm....not bad, but......

    Quote Originally Posted by cellis
    Back to the course issue. What about something like Montezuma's Revenge? I think they do several loops from the same starting point. How about making 5 or so loops 40-80 miles long. Make enought mileage to make it close to impossible to finish and have a 30 hour time limit. You must complete one loop before getting the cue sheet for the next. That would cut down on the race organizers being strung out a huge course, you could also keep track of where everyone is at.
    Iowa has more to offer than just a 40 mile loop. Yeah, I could crush you by making you ride the same hills around Decorah multiple times, but I like to spread the love.
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    Smile TI V3 thoughts

    I love the idea of the race and I missed registration last year. Opinions from my perspective (adventure racing):

    1. I empathize with the logistical issues for the race staff. Someone posted about a figure-8 style course / two intersecting loops. From the rider standpoint and logistical standpoint, I see this as the best option. The race staff are all located in the same place. The riders are closer to a good "bail-out" position. Course length isn't impacted.

    2. I like the idea of a "wild" factor to a race which is why I do what I do. I do not see the harm in using a GPS unit. It would save the race staff some headaches. It would save riders some headaches. If you are worried about a technological arms race, make people disclose what they are going to use. I honestly don't see it being an issue though. Only an idiot would show up with 20lb extra gear for a race like this and odds are they will bail anyway. Plus I'd bet most riders end up in small groups anyway.

    3. I think a drop-bag is a good thing. Riders can run with less gear thus faster. The event will end up shorter and get people home a little faster.

    4. If you open the field, my only opinion would be to run a staggered start. If some are there for recreation more than racing, have them start 30mins behind. Otherwise I generally think "more the better". Odds are once the "recreational" riders hang with the "race-inspired" people, you could get some new blood in the racing side of things.

    Kudos for doing the leg-work on this guys.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Iowa has more to offer than just a 40 mile loop. Yeah, I could crush you by making you ride the same hills around Decorah multiple times, but I like to spread the love.
    GT you realize all the loops are *different* at Montazumas. Hence mostly new course every "loop" without riders spread out over 300 miles. Plus a common "return" point for dropping, resupply stores etc. Just thought I'd clarify...
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  89. #89
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    Thanks for the ideas!

    Quote Originally Posted by DocAltie
    I love the idea of the race and I missed registration last year. Opinions from my perspective (adventure racing):

    1. I empathize with the logistical issues for the race staff. Someone posted about a figure-8 style course / two intersecting loops. From the rider standpoint and logistical standpoint, I see this as the best option. The race staff are all located in the same place. The riders are closer to a good "bail-out" position. Course length isn't impacted.
    Well, that'd be allright, but the race "staff" needs to be mobile and besides....I wouldn't want to miss out on any of the fun! One big loop to bind them and rule them all!

    2. I like the idea of a "wild" factor to a race which is why I do what I do. I do not see the harm in using a GPS unit. It would save the race staff some headaches. It would save riders some headaches. If you are worried about a technological arms race, make people disclose what they are going to use. I honestly don't see it being an issue though. Only an idiot would show up with 20lb extra gear for a race like this and odds are they will bail anyway. Plus I'd bet most riders end up in small groups anyway.
    I'm not into saving headaches, believe me, ask any T.I. vet! No GPS, that's final. Besides, it wouldn't help you anyway, since you won't know where you are going until you get to the start line. But just so that we are all clear, I'm not into the GPS thing.

    3. I think a drop-bag is a good thing. Riders can run with less gear thus faster. The event will end up shorter and get people home a little faster.
    Again, I'm not interested in this sort of set up. Self supported, you make a plan, and live or die by your plan. Maybe you want to ride light? Maybe you want to bring the kitchen sink, whatever. It's all part of the adventure. You did say you liked adventure, right?

    4. If you open the field, my only opinion would be to run a staggered start. If some are there for recreation more than racing, have them start 30mins behind. Otherwise I generally think "more the better". Odds are once the "recreational" riders hang with the "race-inspired" people, you could get some new blood in the racing side of things.
    Well, you don't seem to understand that this is an "underground", low budget affair. That means we don't have a bunch of people to help. It's myself and Jeff Kerkove. That's it. Small field means we can manage it. Waves of riders? I don't think so.

    Kudos for doing the leg-work on this guys.
    Thanks! We appreciate the comments!
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  90. #90
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    Ahhhhhh, yes.

    Get use to this view....

    <img src="https://static.flickr.com/79/243797359_50d7b10405_o.jpg" width="1000" height="194" alt="Pano-view gravel" />

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    We should be so lucky! That picture looks sunny, warm, and filled with green growing things. So far, TI has been either 1. Blinding Sun and Frozen Tundra or 2. Suicide Grey sky that pisses rain without ceasing.

    Don't try to lure the unsuspecting folks here with your siren song of mild weather and pleasant surroundings...

    Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    Get use to this view....

    <img src="https://static.flickr.com/79/243797359_50d7b10405_o.jpg" width="1000" height="194" alt="Pano-view gravel" />
    --
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    Nice pic

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    Get use to this view....

    <img src="https://static.flickr.com/79/243797359_50d7b10405_o.jpg" width="1000" height="194" alt="Pano-view gravel" />

    Gee, I don't remember anything like that this year
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    Gee, I don't remember anything like that this year

    what that nice sunny pic doesn't show is the wind...and that's the trap.

  94. #94
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    Believe it or not....it was actually low tide
    Really. It was
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    Ahhh! The "beauty" of the loop course!

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyH
    what that nice sunny pic doesn't show is the wind...and that's the trap.
    Wind! The bane of the first T.I. will definitely be a factor in this upcoming one. The loop course will guarantee that!

    At least with the more or less west to east crossing you had a fair chance of getting by without a headwind at all. Now, there is no way that'll happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    Believe it or not....it was actually low tide
    Really. It was
    heh, that reminds me of the 1999 tour de france....and I felt like Alex Zulle!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Wind! The bane of the first T.I. will definitely be a factor in this upcoming one. The loop course will guarantee that!

    At least with the more or less west to east crossing you had a fair chance of getting by without a headwind at all. Now, there is no way that'll happen.
    True. With West to East you had a chance of no headwind at all. Even a tailwind for the whole trip, potentially pushing speeds to 20+ MPH for the whole thing. OR, you might end up like this year with a head wind the entire way.

    A loop means, IF the wind doesn't change, that you get 50% headwind, 50% tailwind (in the various forms of full head, head cross, etc.) So while we are guarunteed headwind with the new format, it also guaruntees some respite from the wind.

    I think a loop is a great idea. It will normalize the weather a bit from year to year. With the West to East method we might get a 20 MPH headwind one year with no finishers, and we might get a 20 MPH headwind the next year with 100% finishing. With a loop you get a bit of both head and tail wind, so it moderates these two extremes.

  98. #98
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    I have considered attempting this event for the last two years and may give it a go in April. I recently had an extensive shoulder surgery and should be back on my bike in February. I see this as a great motivator to train this winter (trainer/spinner) and much more exciting than the normal endurance formats. Besides, I have not been in a Casey's since I moved from Illinois 6 years ago.

    With regard to the start time, if you are giving 30 hours to complete the event, it would seem logical to start the event at a time to minimize two night rides. If the race were to begin at midnight, you would be riding more than half of the race in the dark. If that is your intent, fine. Otherwise, it would seem like an early morning start and an afternoon cut-off would be beneficial to both racers and organizers.

    Time to go due my exercises.

  99. #99
    Time to go farther
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    Date news?

    Any more info or date yet? Starting to hash out the 2007 schedule
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  100. #100
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    Tentative Date

    Usually we go with the last weekend in April to coincide with the Decorah Time Trials. I haven't confirmed this, but as of now I see no reason not to do this in '07.

    Recon of the route has already begun with about one fifth of the route confirmed. I hope to cover another large portion of the route in November sometime, if not all of it. Once the route has been confirmed, the date solidified, and the registration process figured out, we will make an announcement. Hopefully it will come in time for an early to mid December registration opening. Stay tuned!
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  101. #101
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    Full Moon Weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Usually we go with the last weekend in April to coincide with the Decorah Time Trials.
    Technically the 30th, but close enough.

    "I see the bad moon arising.
    I see trouble on the way." Josef Fischer, 1896

  102. #102
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    A good read

    Jim McGuire, TI 1 and 2 vet, completed the route, for the most part, a couple of weekends ago. To read his great write up about it go to :http://doctorgarycale.blogspot.com

    Paul

  103. #103
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    Yes! Please read that!

    Quote Originally Posted by paulclimb510
    Jim McGuire, TI 1 and 2 vet, completed the route, for the most part, a couple of weekends ago. To read his great write up about it go to :http://doctorgarycale.blogspot.com

    Paul
    And take note, you folks who want T.I. run in a different time of the year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulclimb510
    Jim McGuire, TI 1 and 2 vet, completed the route, for the most part, a couple of weekends ago. To read his great write up about it go to :http://doctorgarycale.blogspot.com

    Paul
    Oh man, great ride report, really gets me thinking about another attempt next year. I really like the idea of starting in the daylight and a nap. Yay! But it is clearly about the journey, not the destination

  105. #105
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    Previous route info availability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    And take note, you folks who want T.I. run in a different time of the year.
    If the previous routes won't be used again, is it possible they would be made public so other people could use them in a similar fashion?

  106. #106
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    Adventure Cycling the Second?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgrady11
    If the previous routes won't be used again, is it possible they would be made public so other people could use them in a similar fashion?
    Maybe I should start something like Adventure Cycling..........

    ...........use old T.I. routes...................make map sets.....................charge the big money!

    Just kidding!

    While I do have a stock of old T.I. cue sheets stashed away in the bowels of Guitar Ted Labratories, I'm not sure I'd be willing to let all of it become public. The whole second half of T.I.V2 is still a secret! In fact, I may end up using some of that some day for the future. It might be T.I. and it might be something else altogether, but the end result is that I'm probably going to keep that half of T.I.V2 to myself.

    The other problem is the format that the cue sheets are in. It's not easy to keep them in order or to ship them. I would need to condense them down, back into their previous "long form" on a few sheets of 8.5" X 11" paper.( I did all of the cue sheet work by hand, not on a computer) That would be easier to mail and handle. Perhaps, if there is a demand, I might do that by making a "hybrid" T.I. route combining the two previous years, much like what J.McGuire did. (Although, he didn't do the entire route)

    Tell you what, if I get enough requests, say a dozen or so, to make it worth my while, I'll do it. However, I'm not interested in doing just one or two. I've got a T.I.V3 to do, and a whole bunch of 29 inch bike stuff to take care of, along with my family and all that goes with that. Comprende'?

    Otherwise, just join us for T.I.V3, or the Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational next summer. It'll be all of the fun with more people!
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Tell you what, if I get enough requests, say a dozen or so, to make it worth my while, I'll do it. However, I'm not interested in doing just one or two. I've got a T.I.V3 to do, and a whole bunch of 29 inch bike stuff to take care of, along with my family and all that goes with that. Comprende'?

    Otherwise, just join us for T.I.V3, or the Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational next summer. It'll be all of the fun with more people!

    Say, if you do it, I'd like a copy and I'd be willing to pay "big money" for it too! I mean, if the whole race cost 20 or 30$ then you could probably charge a whopping 5$ for the route sheets!

    Maybe you could just scan in the sheets and post them somewhere, that would be easier than mailing out copies.

    But don't put me on the "list of 12"....I'd like a sheet but probably an official copy of the "Great Iowa Loop/TI3" (or whatever it will be called) in April will be plenty of Iowa gravel challenge for me

  108. #108
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    I might be able to put them in a Microsoft Excel format
    Then riders/racers/touring riders could take that info and put it into the format of their choice.
    Let me discuss the options with Guitar Ted at work

  109. #109
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    cue sheets

    I would love a copy Jeff. How about putting the route on Route Slip?

    Paul Jacobson

  110. #110
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    don't go out of your way

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    I might be able to put them in a Microsoft Excel format
    Then riders/racers/touring riders could take that info and put it into the format of their choice.
    Let me discuss the options with Guitar Ted at work
    I think it would be really cool to have them available, as long as you guys don't want to use any of it. That I completely understand.

    And I didn't want to imply that you guys should go through extra work or hassle.

    If it came down to it, I could do any work as far as entering it into that website mentioned (haven't seen it before, but going there after this) or even putting them into a webpage, and I might be able to host it as well.

    I'm an 'open-source' kind of guy...

  111. #111
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    Just came across a good article for nutrition on self-supported rides...

    http://ultracycling.com/nutrition/ea...portrides.html

    .

  112. #112
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    TransIowa Lament

    I look forward to the new challenge of a loop route around Decorah. However, it is a pity we won't have the chance to experience what the western half of the state has to offer. The following capture the the contrast between a certain day last April and a sunny day in October. Pictures show the B road before Sutherland, the Little Sioux river valley including the bridge over the river at Linn Grove and Lake Pickerel west of Mallard.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  113. #113
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    Awesome

    AWESOME pictures JIM! You are one very fortunate guy to have made the journey!

  114. #114
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    <TABLE class=tborder id=post2408199 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 width=175>


    </TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_2408199><HR style="COLOR: #b7b7b7" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
    I look forward to the new challenge of a loop route around Decorah. However, it is a pity we won't have the chance to experience what the western half of the state has to offer..............
    Don't worry! Think of it this way: Trans Iowa V3: The Loop will be visiting at least 3 or 4 counties in the state that I never would have considered to be on the route before, in the point to point format.

    You'll be getting a new perspective on a part of the state that you just might lament not having ridden before!

    Besides, now you might also realize that Trans Iowa doesn't have to be locked into one part of the state, or be a point to point, or a loop, etcetera....

    I think that the western part of the state does have a certain charm to it and I will miss it for the time being, however.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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  115. #115
    "Ride Lots" Eddy Merckx
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    Just curious.....for version 1 & 2 when approximately was registration opened? Any ballpark ideas on V3?

    Thanks!

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkjellquist
    Just curious.....for version 1 & 2 when approximately was registration opened? Any ballpark ideas on V3?

    Thanks!
    Normally in December. I think last year was on the 17th. We are planning a registration date now. Stay tuned to the event site and this forum.
    Last edited by KERKOVEJ; 11-03-2006 at 06:34 AM.

  117. #117
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    Per Killer K's 07 Schedule

    Looks like it won't be happening on the 28th of April as Tennessee's Dirt,Sweat & Gears 12hr race is going down that weekend Jeff I'm trying to get Grelk to head down to that race, are you planning on going with someone.....Bucannodale????

    Peace
    I'm only as fast as the previous nights 12 pack, and as crazy as Einstein

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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrely1
    ......are you planning on going with someone.....
    Not sure yet. I have a lot of changes possibly coming in the next few weeks. I have not planned my '07 season yet...and that is also the reason a date has not been set for Trans-Iowa.

  119. #119

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    tranny v3

    nothing can beat the feel of a point to point race format. the idea of riding from one side od the state to the other under your own power is fantastic but from aorganizing perspective i think the loop idea makes more sence. opinions: stay away from a figure 8 layout, if you are planning on a ride like this you should be able to do it by yourself the whole way. singletrack and b roads in the spring equal peanutbutter and erosion. my personal idea for a real trans iowa would be from decorah to burlington. bring the hills. western iowa is great but the isolation of a straight road for 20 miles is a bit boring. field limits: 50 riders is nice but 100 means more money and more more logistics. what about moving it around the state every year or taking recomendations on routes? a bit of self promotion but everyone should check out my website iraryancycles.com or my blog at iraryanbicycles.wordpress.com. thanks all. ira ryan

  120. #120
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    Hello!

    Quote Originally Posted by PDXcourier
    nothing can beat the feel of a point to point race format. the idea of riding from one side od the state to the other under your own power is fantastic but from aorganizing perspective i think the loop idea makes more sence.
    First off, hello Ira! It's been awhile. (For those of you that don't know, Ira won the first edition of T.I.) I agree, the idea of going across the state is cool, the actual working out of that idea has been somewhat problematic for all concerned. Just think of the loop as a point to point with the ends bent together! The distance will be similar to a cross state traverse, so we still have that "feel", if you will.

    opinions: stay away from a figure 8 layout, if you are planning on a ride like this you should be able to do it by yourself the whole way. singletrack and b roads in the spring equal peanutbutter and erosion.
    Yes, I agree, NO figure 8 or other goofiness. Yes, you should be able to do it on your own, and that's why we are not having drop bags or "halfway support", or anything of the like. This year you fend for yourself and stay on course. Simple as that. Singletrack and "B" level maintenance roads are different where ever you go in Iowa, and I am going to be very careful in my choices in light of erosion issues or having too much B road mileage piled up in one place, like last year. By the way, take a look at Jim McGuire's photos above for a look at how well a "B" road recovers from a soaking rain.


    my personal idea for a real trans iowa would be from decorah to burlington. bring the hills. western iowa is great but the isolation of a straight road for 20 miles is a bit boring.
    I think you'd find T.I.V3 much more to your liking


    field limits: 50 riders is nice but 100 means more money and more more logistics. what about moving it around the state every year or taking recomendations on routes?
    I would tend to agree on the feild limit. We are actually going somewhere between 50 and 100. Money? We put this thing on and lose money everytime, what's money got to do with it? At any rate, to further up the level of our reputations for being fiscally irresponsible, we have decided to not charge any entry fee at all this year, So There!
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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Money? We put this thing on and lose money everytime, what's money got to do with it? At any rate, to further up the level of our reputations for being fiscally irresponsible, we have decided to not charge any entry fee at all this year, So There!

    You guys are crazier than I thought! You gotta do me a favor and provide a paypal account or something for "donations"

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDXcourier
    ...means more money....
    Mo money....Mo problems

  123. #123
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    Trans-Iowa III Date.

    We are getting closer to picking a weekend for Trans-Iowa.

    These are the options...
    Option 1: April 20-22, 2007
    Option 2: April 27-29, 2007
    Option 3: May 4-6, 2007

    As of this post, Option 1 is leading the way for us as promoters to run the event. Sound off and tell us what you think.

  124. #124
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    Anything BUT option 2, and I will be there.

    Again.

    Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    We are getting closer to picking a weekend for Trans-Iowa.

    These are the options...
    Option 1: April 20-22, 2007
    Option 2: April 27-29, 2007
    Option 3: May 4-6, 2007

    As of this post, Option 1 is leading the way for us as promoters to run the event. Sound off and tell us what you think.
    --
    Joe Partridge

  125. #125
    Homey the Clown
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    Thnk of students

    I doubt I'll be able to make it, but in Florida (and I imagine elsewhere), the spring semester ends at the end of April. If I were to come someday, option 2 would be easier than option 1 (which would be impossible), and option 3 would be better still.

    Like I said, this doesn't affect me, at least not next year, but it could affect others. I'm not a student actually, but a professor.

    jimbo

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    We are getting closer to picking a weekend for Trans-Iowa.

    These are the options...
    Option 1: April 20-22, 2007
    Option 2: April 27-29, 2007
    Option 3: May 4-6, 2007

    As of this post, Option 1 is leading the way for us as promoters to run the event. Sound off and tell us what you think.

  126. #126
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    Option 1

    Early option #1 is my preference. More time between that and scheduled Koko (may 4) although that may be pushed back if it's still snowy?
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    We are getting closer to picking a weekend for Trans-Iowa.

    These are the options...
    Option 1: April 20-22, 2007
    Option 2: April 27-29, 2007
    Option 3: May 4-6, 2007

    As of this post, Option 1 is leading the way for us as promoters to run the event. Sound off and tell us what you think.

    which one is closest to the full moon....that's my vote

  128. #128
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    I vote for Option 1...

    Dirty Kanza is scheduled for Saturday, May 19, 2007. I am hoping to participate in Trans-Iowa next year... and hoping many of your entrants come down for Dirty Kanza... like so many did last year. For this reason, the earlier you can schedule Trans-Iowa, the better.

    See you in April... and again in May.

    Jim Cummins
    Promoter, Dirty Kanza

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Hog
    ..hoping many of your entrants come down for Dirty Kanza... like so many did last year. For this reason, the earlier you can schedule Trans-Iowa, the better.
    Agree. We don't want to draw away racers from other enduro events in the area. Respect.

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    Cohutta 100 is on April 21 in TN, so we would probably prefer the 2nd option... but then again, there are only a few of us from down here in TN planning on making the trip that I know of....

  131. #131
    "Ride Lots" Eddy Merckx
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    One question not related to the dates if that's OK;

    What is the closest ~major~ airport and what's the closest airport overall? Is there an airport close enough to take a cab, or is a rental car a necessity?

  132. #132
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    Rochester, Minnesota

    Quote Originally Posted by kkjellquist
    One question not related to the dates if that's OK;

    What is the closest ~major~ airport and what's the closest airport overall? Is there an airport close enough to take a cab, or is a rental car a necessity?
    That's my guess. Probably about an hours drive away. I'd rent a car.

    Closest airport overall? Ya want a grass feild or paved runway?

    Probably an airfield right at Decorah or I know of one in Cresco, Iowa about 15 minutes away. We're talkin Piper Cub kind of stuff though!
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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkjellquist
    What is the closest ~major~ airport and what's the closest airport overall?
    Major Airports include:
    Minneapolis/St.Paul, MN
    Des Moines, IA

    Regional Airports include:
    Rochester, MN
    Waterloo, IA

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Madison, WI

    Airports listed above in red are the closest...i.e. sub 2 hour car ride

  134. #134
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    full moon

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    Option 2: April 27-29, 2007
    option 2. closest to a full moon.

    but whatever's best for the promoters.

    i'd say something close to dirty kanza, to make it easier to do a double header. but people seem to want more time between the events instead of less.

  135. #135
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    The weekend with perfect conditions. %^)

    Good luck.

    Seriously, I like the idea of the full moon.

    I can't wait!

  136. #136
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    Rochester airport

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    Major Airports include:
    Minneapolis/St.Paul, MN
    Des Moines, IA

    Regional Airports include:
    Rochester, MN
    Waterloo, IA

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Madison, WI

    Airports listed above in red are the closest...i.e. sub 2 hour car ride
    I live in Rochester, so I can give a little more info on the airport. Rochester is an international airport, so you can fly in there from anywhere in the world if you had to. It has to be one of the smallest international airports in the country, with all of six gates.

    Rochester is typically served by either Northwest or American. Northwest's hub is Minneapolis, so if you fly with them you will land in Minneapolis first, then take a 20 minute hop from Minneapolis to Rochester. American's hub is Chicago, which is a wee bit longer of a flight at perhaps one hour.

    Flying out of Rochester rocks because security checks take about 5 minutes and you don't need to be there anywhere near 2 hours before your flight, as is suggested for some other airports.

  137. #137
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    A selection process?

    I am seriously thinking about making an effort at the TRANS IOWA, if for no other reason than to just meet all the crazies...plus I grew up down in Rochester and I had friends that went to Luther...This area is beautiful with rolling forested hills and numerous trout streams, etc. I vote for doing it as early as possible as both the MN series and WORS start in early May. Also, rumors are that Jay Richards over at Maplelag in NW Minnesota has secured a UCI MTB event to take place on the Weekend of May 12th. I guess before I start to ramble, in my little world, the earlier the better so as to allow for some recovery time before the regular mtb racing season gets going full swing in Minnesota & Wisconsin.

    Any idea about registration? If you get more than 50, will there be a selection process?
    Thanks for putting this on...itz represents a great effort, a labor of love!
    C

  138. #138
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    Registration: Fuzzy Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieFarrow
    I am seriously thinking about making an effort at the TRANS IOWA, if for no other reason than to just meet all the crazies...plus I grew up down in Rochester and I had friends that went to Luther...This area is beautiful with rolling forested hills and numerous trout streams, etc. I vote for doing it as early as possible as both the MN series and WORS start in early May. Also, rumors are that Jay Richards over at Maplelag in NW Minnesota has secured a UCI MTB event to take place on the Weekend of May 12th. I guess before I start to ramble, in my little world, the earlier the better so as to allow for some recovery time before the regular mtb racing season gets going full swing in Minnesota & Wisconsin.

    Any idea about registration? If you get more than 50, will there be a selection process?
    Thanks for putting this on...itz represents a great effort, a labor of love!
    C
    Right now we are not 100% sure how registration will actually take place, but a lottery process has been tossed around as has a mail in contest. Nothing solid yet, but very soon.

    At any rate, the one thing that is absolutely written in stone is that we will take on up to 100 registrants and there will be no substitutes or add ons. It's not gong to cost anything, so you are not out if you can't come. (Other than ticking off someone that didn't get in when they find out you bailed out)

    Registration should take place mid-December-ish. Stay tuned.
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  139. #139
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    This is just an idea off the top of my head. Take it or leave it.

    How about a raffle to get in, with "tickets" purchased by making donations to your food shelf (or any other charity you ultimately go with). For every dollar's worth of food pledged, you get a ticket. Pledge $20, get 20 tickets. These pledges would be made in advance of the drawing, and on the drawing day you would pick names from the tickets you have. If a person pledged $20 they would get 20 chances, if a person pledged $1 they would get 1 chance.

    Then, come the event, everyone who won a slot shows up with their pledge in food. Don't bring the food you promised, you don't get into the event.

    Keep the number of people actually entering a secret so that people pledge blindly. If you intend to have 100 slots and 70 people sign up, everyone gets in, but the people who pledge more will donate more to the food shelf. If 120 people sign up the people who pledge the most have the highest odds of getting in.

    I would suggest the pledges be made secret so there are no "bidding wars". By having secret pledges and an unknown number of entrants, people are going to pledge more on average than if they knew there were 100 slots and only 85 entrants. If you knew that $1 guarunteed you entry you wouldn't be as inclined to donate $20. If you knew it was very competitive you would be more likely to donate more.

    Again, idea off the top of my head. Take it, leave it, modify it. Up to you.

  140. #140
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    I like this idea.., hell, if we're going to get complicated, instead of money let's ante up grizzly bear pancreas', eagle talons, and bison robes. Whoever potlaches the most gets all the que sheets, everyone else chases.

    One big loop, one mass sprint after 20 some hrs.

  141. #141
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    ummmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by bd.sahib
    I like this idea.., hell, if we're going to get complicated, instead of money let's ante up grizzly bear pancreas', eagle talons, and bison robes. Whoever potlaches the most gets all the que sheets, everyone else chases.

    One big loop, one mass sprint after 20 some hrs.
    That sounds scary!

    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  142. #142
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    Option 1.....

    Gives more seperation between TI and Dirty Kanza. The Midwest Mountain Bike Summit will be the weekend of May 5th in Peoria...no sense in causing conflict.

    Bear

  143. #143
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    Updation....

    Okay guys, Jeff and I have determined the manner in which registrations will be handled and we are now waiting for a bit to announce a date. I can say that it will not be option #3. Too late, and other considerations keep this from being a choice.

    So, it's either going to be one of the last two weekends in April.

    Registration will be a form of lottery. More details later.

    Date will be determined very soon.........stay tuned.
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  144. #144
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    Sounds great. Will people that want to do the race together be grouped together before the lottery is done? Let's say Jim McGuire, Gary Cale, and I want to be be in or out together can we be put together before you chose who is in and who is out? Will past participants have any advantage? Such as people that have done both years are automatically in for the third installment and then the rest of the entries go to the lottery?

    Or.... am I just being an ass and it is a lottery period?!!? %^)

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulclimb510
    Sounds great. Will people that want to do the race together be grouped together before the lottery is done? Let's say Jim McGuire, Gary Cale, and I want to be be in or out together can we be put together before you chose who is in and who is out? Will past participants have any advantage? Such as people that have done both years are automatically in for the third installment and then the rest of the entries go to the lottery?

    Or.... am I just being an ass and it is a lottery period?!!? %^)
    Yeah, and if a guy doesn't get in, can he just ride along on his own?

  146. #146
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    How it'll work

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    Yeah, and if a guy doesn't get in, can he just ride along on his own?
    First of all, there is not going to be any special dispensations for past entrants, finishers, or whatever.

    The lottery works like this: We will post a starting date and a finishing date for registrations. In that time period, you will be required to send in a postcard with your name, desired class to be entered in, gender, and an e-mail contact and cell phone#. (E-mail and phone #'s will be strictly confidential)

    You may send in as many post cards in that time period that you want to, but they each must have the required info. Send in more, better chances to get picked.

    The lottery drawing date will be posted and the lottery will be held live, on-line: in otherwords, we will update the roster as each name is pulled from the hat. (or drum, or however large a vessel it'll take)

    Once 100 different names have been pulled from the pool, registration will be closed and no more entrants will be accepted. If people drop out for any reason, they will not be replaced. No transfers will be accepted. Don't even ask! It's way too much hassel for us to deal with.

    If in the case of less than 100 names at the time of the drawing, we will make an announcement and the remaining spots will be filled on a first come, first served basis. (Not a likely scenario)

    Note: We have not set a date yet! Do not send post cards now! We will announce the dates and the address to send in your registrations soon!

    We reserve the right to twiddle with this format until we "officially" announce it!

    Fastskiguy: I'm surprised that this hasn't come up before! You could possibly follow folks for a time without cue sheets. But.....you would be at the mercy of their pace and eventually, you'd end up on your own with no one around to follow. Of course, someone could tell you which way to go, but if they were found out, they'd be DQ'ed. I think it'd be even more difficult than doing it on the up and up, but......there's always some nutjob out there that would try it! I'd seriously discourage it as it endangers other contestants eligibility and is not in the true spirit of the event. ( I know you were probably just kidding, but there are some folks out there that would seriously think about doing this.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Fastskiguy: I'm surprised that this hasn't come up before! You could possibly follow folks for a time without cue sheets. But.....you would be at the mercy of their pace and eventually, you'd end up on your own with no one around to follow. Of course, someone could tell you which way to go, but if they were found out, they'd be DQ'ed. I think it'd be even more difficult than doing it on the up and up, but......there's always some nutjob out there that would try it! I'd seriously discourage it as it endangers other contestants eligibility and is not in the true spirit of the event. ( I know you were probably just kidding, but there are some folks out there that would seriously think about doing this.)

    Well DQing anybody that shares the route sheets with somebody not in the event sure would put a stop to that. I'm not sure if I was kidding or not.....but after reading that I can see that clearly I should save my time and effort for buying postcards and stamps. I don't know how much mail you guys will get but a 100 stamps only costs about 40 dollars....

  148. #148
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    So this has me thinking.

    So, let's say we all put in 20-30 bucks worth of post cards in the mail to try to ensure we get in. Wouldn't you, GT and Jeff, be better off having the entry fee of 20-30 bucks to help cover your expenses than have us waste it on stamps. How about we only can send in one card and one card only. That would be fair to everyone that tries to get in. Just rambling out loud that is all.

    BTW, I like the lottery idea a lot better than having to click refresh 10,000 times waiting for Active.com to put up your entry form. I don't think I have ever been more anxious for anything ! %^)

    Thanks for all of the work guys!

  149. #149
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    The problem with money.....

    Quote Originally Posted by paulclimb510
    So, let's say we all put in 20-30 bucks worth of post cards in the mail to try to ensure we get in. Wouldn't you, GT and Jeff, be better off having the entry fee of 20-30 bucks to help cover your expenses than have us waste it on stamps. How about we only can send in one card and one card only. That would be fair to everyone that tries to get in. Just rambling out loud that is all.
    Paul, the problem with us taking your money is that we instantly become "responsible" for providing percieved "services" and thus are liable for "events" that occur during the time period of Trans Iowa. That means we have to buy insurance. I can't afford to put my families well being at risk because some fool Trans Iowa competitor gets mowed down by a drunk driver, (for instance) and the family of the deceased decides it's Jeff's and my fault. That's just one of a million things that could happen, that we have to have the coverage for.

    That insurance coverage costs us alot more if we allow 100 folks into the event. We decided to take the "Mike Curiak" method and just have folks show up that want to ride a designated route. No fee means no liability means no insurance. If there ever was a Trans Iowa where you were truly on your own and self supported, this is it.

    So, if you want to spend $40.00 on postage or $400.00 on postage, that's your business. Whatever getting into Trans Iowa is worth to you, I guess. It doesn't matter what the U.S. Government charges you for that service, we are not charging you. T.I. is totally free this year. We are going to find out if 100 folks or less can complete a designated course on public roads. That's all.

    As Fastskiguy pointed out, you could just show up to ride, you just wouldn't have the route directions and to be a mooch and try to have another person with the route guide you is not in the spirit of the event. Besides, if we found out somebody did that, we would not include them in the results, as has been stated. Hope that all makes sense.

    BTW, I like the lottery idea a lot better than having to click refresh 10,000 times waiting for Active.com to put up your entry form. I don't think I have ever been more anxious for anything ! %^)

    Thanks for all of the work guys!
    And you don't think you won't be hitting refresh on the day we draw the lottery?
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  150. #150
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    I am afraid I agree with Paul. Who does it benefit to have people send in a huge number of post cards? The post office.

    If I send in 1 post card and everyone else sends in 1 post card, the odds of each and every person are the same as if I send in 30 postcards and everyone else sends in 30 postcards. The difference is that by sending 30 postcards everyone spends 30X as much money. So "postcard inflation" doesn't buy anyone anything.

    But what if someone has more money than someone else? What if it is somehow worth it to me to spend $100 on registration and a slew of postcards, but to someone else it is worth only $5? Then you are going to be biased towards people who have more money to blow. That would be just about as cool as just giving the awards out at the beginning to the guy with the most pimped out bicycle. After all, if he can spend more on his bike, he has to be the better biker...

    Why use a post card at all? Post cards can get lost in the mail. Start a new thread on this forum called "Trans Iowa signup". Have people log on and post their names and whether they want to come. Enter their name into an Excel spreadsheet, assigning each person a number. Then use a random number generator to pick names from the list.

    Finally, on one hand you say you can't accept money because it assumes you are giving goods and services. On the other hand you are saying you will disqualify anyone found to be sharing route sheets. I am no lawyer, but doesn't this mean you are disqualifying people for sharing the goods and services you are supposedly not giving out? I argued this last year, and won't drag on and on with it this year, but if this is going to legally be called a "competitive group ride", just open it up ala GDR or GTDR and let those who show up show up. If you aren't providing support and you aren't responsible for them, it doesn't matter if 1 person or 1000 people show up. But that is for another thread...

    If you want to take food for the food shelf, that is one thing. But asking us to pad the wallet of the US Postal Service is just... wrong.

  151. #151
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    Smile I hate the lottery idea

    First of all, let me thank both of you for putting on this race the last two years and for putting it on again. I know it is a tremendous amount of work which you perform selflessly. (It must kill both of you not to ride your own race.) I have been fine with almost every decision you've made (okay, I hate the cut-off times--I am slow and old and have bad knees). However, I hate the lottery idea.

    Okay, I don't hate the lottery idea. Chequamegon has a lottery--and I've been lucky the last two years. However, Chequamegon lets riding buddies enter together and only requires one entry--not multiple "tickets" like a raffle.

    The system you propose potentially privileges those with extra money (not a problem I have); if someone has $40 or $400 they can almost be assured of buying their way into the race IF--and this may be a big IF-- most people will just send in one postcard. Of course, now that we are all feeling anxious and have a faint hope that we can control our own destiny through multiple submissions, who knows. Maybe you will have several thousand postcards to sort through; maybe only 100..

    I'd love to give this one more shot (DNF on both TI and TI V2), and have a fair shot of getting in without enriching the Postal Service, especially since they ditched the bike team.

    I suppose you could argue that this lottery system privileges those most eager to get in and therefore ensures that you will have fewer no-shows than last year, when those fair-weather bikers decided that a little rain, cold, and wind (okay, a lot of rain and wind) meant they could sleep in and follow the progress of the race on the G-Ted network. I don't know if that is what you had in mind when you came up with this system. I guess if I invested $400 on postage, I would sure as hell show up, even if I wasn't getting a tee-shirt or even a race plate.

    Anyway, obviously I will hang with whatever you finally decide, probably round up a bunch of postage and postcards (do we get extra credit for creative designs?), and hope that the lottery gods love me that week. And I'll hope that my riding buddies are similarly favored.

    and yeah, I suppose it does beat having to click on the registration button over and over again, although I found out last year if you check the night before you might just be able to get in early. The Rogue Seven lives!

    Let the drawing begin!

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    bribery

    So does bribery work? A postcard attached to a bottle of beer would be hard to overlook. If you reached into a bucket and felt a bottle of beer, wouldn't you grab it?

    I think I have found my ticket in.....

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    I am afraid I agree with Paul. Who does it benefit to have people send in a huge number of post cards? The post office.
    And when you register on-line, whose wallet are you padding? This argument doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

    Of course, you could always drive your post card down here yourself, or better yet, ride it down here on your bike. Count it as training.

    If I send in 1 post card and everyone else sends in 1 post card, the odds of each and every person are the same as if I send in 30 postcards and everyone else sends in 30 postcards. The difference is that by sending 30 postcards everyone spends 30X as much money. So "postcard inflation" doesn't buy anyone anything.

    But what if someone has more money than someone else? What if it is somehow worth it to me to spend $100 on registration and a slew of postcards, but to someone else it is worth only $5? Then you are going to be biased towards people who have more money to blow. That would be just about as cool as just giving the awards out at the beginning to the guy with the most pimped out bicycle. After all, if he can spend more on his bike, he has to be the better biker...

    Why use a post card at all? Post cards can get lost in the mail. Start a new thread on this forum called "Trans Iowa signup". Have people log on and post their names and whether they want to come. Enter their name into an Excel spreadsheet, assigning each person a number. Then use a random number generator to pick names from the list.
    For the best explanation of why we are going with post cards, look at my response to Gary Cale's post on the same subject. One thing that you seem to miss in all of this T.I. planning is that it has to be fun for Jeff and I and it has to be easy for us. What is easy and reasonable to you sounds like a heck of a lot of extra work to me. My opinion, your's is obviously different.

    If you do not like the odds and the means by which we choose our roster, perhaps this event isn't for you?

    Finally, on one hand you say you can't accept money because it assumes you are giving goods and services. On the other hand you are saying you will disqualify anyone found to be sharing route sheets. I am no lawyer, but doesn't this mean you are disqualifying people for sharing the goods and services you are supposedly not giving out? I argued this last year, and won't drag on and on with it this year, but if this is going to legally be called a "competitive group ride", just open it up ala GDR or GTDR and let those who show up show up. If you aren't providing support and you aren't responsible for them, it doesn't matter if 1 person or 1000 people show up. But that is for another thread...
    You said it....this is an old road we have both been over. I guess you need to drag this out again, but you already know the answer....

    If there are no rules enforced then what's the point?

    If you want to take food for the food shelf, that is one thing. But asking us to pad the wallet of the US Postal Service is just... wrong.
    You are trying to make me feel guilty? I don't understand this statement. If you don't like the idea, you are free to decline the invitation.
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  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by calegaryj
    First of all, let me thank both of you for putting on this race the last two years and for putting it on again. I know it is a tremendous amount of work which you perform selflessly. (It must kill both of you not to ride your own race.)
    Thanks! It's great to have people appreciate what you do. And it'd probably kill me if I did the race too! Guess it's six of one, half a dozen of another.

    Okay, I don't hate the lottery idea. Chequamegon has a lottery--and I've been lucky the last two years. However, Chequamegon lets riding buddies enter together and only requires one entry--not multiple "tickets" like a raffle.
    Hmm....special situations for friends and such, sounds like more work.....

    The system you propose potentially privileges those with extra money (not a problem I have); if someone has $40 or $400 they can almost be assured of buying their way into the race IF--and this may be a big IF-- most people will just send in one postcard. Of course, now that we are all feeling anxious and have a faint hope that we can control our own destiny through multiple submissions, who knows. Maybe you will have several thousand postcards to sort through; maybe only 100..
    I'm betting that we'll get alot of them. That's okay.

    I'd love to give this one more shot (DNF on both TI and TI V2), and have a fair shot of getting in without enriching the Postal Service, especially since they ditched the bike team.

    I suppose you could argue that this lottery system privileges those most eager to get in and therefore ensures that you will have fewer no-shows than last year, when those fair-weather bikers decided that a little rain, cold, and wind (okay, a lot of rain and wind) meant they could sleep in and follow the progress of the race on the G-Ted network. I don't know if that is what you had in mind when you came up with this system. I guess if I invested $400 on postage, I would sure as hell show up, even if I wasn't getting a tee-shirt or even a race plate.
    This is part of the madness. For those who only think that it might be cool, they are less likely to spend a bunch to get in. However, that said, several no shows are expected. I will be really okay with that, as it's less folks to watch for.

    Actually, I really don't expect that we will have much more than a hundred different applicants. We never have come close to that before (even considering after the fact requests), so I'd be really surprised to see much more than a 100 apply.

    Anyway, obviously I will hang with whatever you finally decide, probably round up a bunch of postage and postcards (do we get extra credit for creative designs?), and hope that the lottery gods love me that week. And I'll hope that my riding buddies are similarly favored.

    and yeah, I suppose it does beat having to click on the registration button over and over again, although I found out last year if you check the night before you might just be able to get in early. The Rogue Seven lives!

    Let the drawing begin!
    Thanks for your co-operation, Gary I hope that you do get in with all of your buddies. I suspect that you will. Again, I don't expect a bunch of applicants. Just my feeling on the matter. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I doubt it.
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    so, what would Jeff want?

    I think I read a long time ago that Jeff does not drink beer, so if he is drawing the cards, I don't think the beer would work. I'm thinking that he might like...wait, why am I telling you guys?

    Thanks again, G-Ted and Jeff for this madness. As Paddy says, it's going to be a scene.

  156. #156
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    Ebay

    I am not an Ebay expert, but here is my question.

    Is it possible to place a multiple item auction on Ebay for each lottery entry? You could set the price at let's say $1.00, charge $.50 for shipping and handling that would cover the cost of the auction. Every $1.50 gets you an entry. You guys take the money ($1.00+ per entry) and donate it to a local charity. You could even limit each person to a specific amount of entries in the lottery drawing, but not to the auction. For example, let's say you put 1000 entries up on Ebay and limit the lottery drawing to 20 per person. To increase odds above 1:50, someone could purchase 40 entries even though only 20 would go into the lottery drawing.

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    ... and if we just ... Tired yet?

    So, GT, you getting sick of this advice yet?

    If not, will you please consider allowing only one entry into the lottery. That way it doesn't become a war of sending in entries. Everyone will have a fair shot. You can post on the site the people's names that have turned in entries we will know that you have actually received the post card.

    An alternative....

    Don't even have registration. The people that show up the night before the race get cue sheets and then we ride the following morning. You don't have to worry about anyone as we are on our own. We are adults and can be responsible for our own ass. Being a loop it will be much easier for someone to come and get some one that drops out than in previous versions and we both know we didn't have any problems at all with "teams" helping out other "teams" in the previous versions.

    I don't mean to be an ass.... really. You know me well enough to know that. I think.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulclimb510
    So, GT, you getting sick of this advice yet?

    If not, will you please consider allowing only one entry into the lottery. That way it doesn't become a war of sending in entries. Everyone will have a fair shot. You can post on the site the people's names that have turned in entries we will know that you have actually received the post card.
    Conversely, everyone has "a fair shot" at increasing their chances for entry. "War of sending in entries"? I wonder if people that run raffles, prize give aways and the like hear this sort of stuff? There seems to be a fear in some of you that you won't get in. I really wouldn't worry about it. As I stated to Gary, we haven't ever had 100 requests to get into this. I don't think this year will be any different, especially with the early season kick off to the 24hr events in '07, which are sure to draw off some would be applicants.

    Besides, there is Dirty Kanza 200, and you have spoken of putting on your own cross state ride in July, (kudos to you for cosidering that) so there is no end to the opportunities.

    An alternative....

    Don't even have registration. The people that show up the night before the race get cue sheets and then we ride the following morning. You don't have to worry about anyone as we are on our own. We are adults and can be responsible for our own ass. Being a loop it will be much easier for someone to come and get some one that drops out than in previous versions and we both know we didn't have any problems at all with "teams" helping out other "teams" in the previous versions.
    Paul: You've got the right attitude here, but in practice this would be a nightmare for me, Jeff, and the limited amount of volunteers available to me. You see, you guys care about doing the course right, (staying on it- following the rules, etc...) but there are (and have been in past T.I.'s) people that will cut the course and bend the rules. It's my responsibility to you guys to make Trans Iowa a fair playing field. Otherwise, why not just show up next week and do whatever the heck you want to, right? As I said to Morlahach, without rules there is chaos. Do you want to come to an event like that?

    So, we need to be able to manage this thing, limit the numbers of people, make it easier on us to run it, keep track of you out there, (for governance and because we care about you in case you get in trouble), and to enjoy a little slice of what we work for. To make an open invitation to have as many come as would want to is asking for disaster. For one: How many sets of cue sheets do you print up?

    I don't mean to be an ass.... really. You know me well enough to know that. I think.
    Thanks for keping it civil, sane, and friendly, Paul. I appreciate it, and I hope to ride again with you sometime soon! We'll get to know each other even better then.
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    Lottery

    Although I would prefer some sort of special accomodation for people that toed the line in both of the previous runnings of this event, I respect the organizers right to do their own thing their own way.

    Here is my situation and my plan:

    I would really like to do this race. However, there are a bunch of other cool races that I have passed on for the last two years because I was training for, racing in or recovering from Trans-Iowa. So I plan to send in one (1) postcard entry. If I get in, great. If I don't, I can live with that as well. It will give me a chance to do some other race in another part of the country.

    Now, where do I mail this postcard and when are you gonna pick the names? Don't keep us in suspense...

    Joe
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    Note the subject of the thread

    Mark,

    It appears that I wasn't PR enough with my comments. I can see I rubbed your fur the wrong way. My apologies, as that was not my intent. The subject of the thread is "Trans Iowa V3: Your opinions needed". You asked for opinions, I gave you mine.

    By my count you have so far had five negative comments regarding the lottery. I wasn't the first negative response, and I wasn't the last. You have had zero positive comments regarding the lottery. Now, this is your event and you are free to run it any way you want. I recognize that. But the weight of public opinion is that this isn't the best way to do this.

    Having said that, this isn't even a big deal to me. I was willing to give $30+ towards you and Jeff to reimburse you for the work of putting on the event. I was willing to give $30+ to a food shelf to help poor hungry people. And I am even willing to give $30+ (if I felt it was a necessary amount to get in) to help the USPS out. To me $30 isn't a big deal, no matter who it goes to. However, of the three options, I feel that the USPS is the least worthy. On a scale from 1-10 of importance to me, this is something like a 2. Certainly not something that will make me "take my business elsewhere".

    I also am not saying or even implying that there shouldn't be any rules enforced. I think you are reading a lot into my statement that isn't there.

    You have twice suggested this event "might not be for me". Sounds like a strong inference. If you don't want me to enter this race, say so outright. Ask me not to enter and I won't. However, I am greatly looking forward to this event and will ultimately <b>abide by any rules you set up</b>. But while those rules are in flux, and while you are asking for opinions, I will give my opinion and try to influence your rules.

  161. #161
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    I don't want to get anybody upset here but I'm thinking if the organizers want postcards then isn't it easiest to just send'em postcards? Maybe it doesn't make sense, I don't know, but it certainly is easy. And cheap. And there probably won't be that many entrants anyway ( at least that's what my wife says "How many people would really want to do that?"). I mean, really, how hard is it to sent in 10 postcards? Or 20? Or maybe just one?

    I can understand a guy saying "This is weird, seems kinda stupid" but for 5 dollars and just a little bit of time you can virtually guarantee you'll get in.

    Or you can look at it this way, spend 5$ on postage and supplies and donate the other 25, 50, 100, 150 dollars (or whatever you think an event like this is worth) to the charity of your choice. I'm thinking you win because you're in and got to donate something, the organizers got to run it the way they want, and the charity wins because they get a donation.

    I just don't think you can avoid having a good outcome here.

  162. #162
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    Mark,

    It appears that I wasn't PR enough with my comments. I can see I rubbed your fur the wrong way. My apologies, as that was not my intent. The subject of the thread is "Trans Iowa V3: Your opinions needed". You asked for opinions, I gave you mine.
    Yes, Brian, you are correct. I did ask. As for being irritated or your comments not "being PR enough", it's part of being an organizer of an event. I try to answer any and all of these suggestions and ideas in the best way that I can. However; sometimes some of your comments read to me like they are overly dramatic, or assumptive. To wit: your next paragraph.......

    By my count you have so far had five negative comments regarding the lottery. I wasn't the first negative response, and I wasn't the last. You have had zero positive comments regarding the lottery. Now, this is your event and you are free to run it any way you want. I recognize that. But the weight of public opinion is that this isn't the best way to do this.
    First of all, this forum is not the only way we gather information. So assuming that this "count" of yours is accurate is not correct.

    Secondly: "...the weight of public opinion...." C'mon, Brian, don't you think that's a bit over the top?

    Having said that, this isn't even a big deal to me. I was willing to give $30+ towards you and Jeff to reimburse you for the work of putting on the event. I was willing to give $30+ to a food shelf to help poor hungry people. And I am even willing to give $30+ (if I felt it was a necessary amount to get in) to help the USPS out. To me $30 isn't a big deal, no matter who it goes to. However, of the three options, I feel that the USPS is the least worthy. On a scale from 1-10 of importance to me, this is something like a 2. Certainly not something that will make me "take my business elsewhere".
    You are putting a lot of time and effort into an opinion that "isn't even a big deal to me", at least in my opinion.

    I also am not saying or even implying that there shouldn't be any rules enforced. I think you are reading a lot into my statement that isn't there.
    Good. I'm glad you see it that way. Your previous statements didn't give me clues that you were in recognition of that.

    You have twice suggested this event "might not be for me". Sounds like a strong inference. If you don't want me to enter this race, say so outright. Ask me not to enter and I won't. However, I am greatly looking forward to this event and will ultimately abide by any rules you set up. But while those rules are in flux, and while you are asking for opinions, I will give my opinion and try to influence your rules.
    I only suggest that opinion to those who seem to be having alot of oposing opinions or troubles with the way Jeff and I run Trans Iowa. Perhaps I am wrong in suggesting this to you?
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

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  163. #163
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    I don't want to get anybody upset here but I'm thinking if the organizers want postcards then isn't it easiest to just send'em postcards? Maybe it doesn't make sense, I don't know, but it certainly is easy. And cheap. And there probably won't be that many entrants anyway ( at least that's what my wife says "How many people would really want to do that?"). I mean, really, how hard is it to sent in 10 postcards? Or 20? Or maybe just one?

    I can understand a guy saying "This is weird, seems kinda stupid" but for 5 dollars and just a little bit of time you can virtually guarantee you'll get in.

    Or you can look at it this way, spend 5$ on postage and supplies and donate the other 25, 50, 100, 150 dollars (or whatever you think an event like this is worth) to the charity of your choice. I'm thinking you win because you're in and got to donate something, the organizers got to run it the way they want, and the charity wins because they get a donation.

    I just don't think you can avoid having a good outcome here.
    Bingo, ya got it right on the head.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

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  164. #164
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    Happy Thanksgiving

    Mark,

    Last comments and then I am going back into my cave to celebrate Thanksgiving with my family.

    I think you and I may have a bit more of a <i>history</i> than I initially thought. Last year I had some ideas that you didn't like (definition of single speed, field limit, maybe others) and I think the effects of those comments carried over to your response to these. This year I said the same thing four others said, and you questioned whether I want total anarchy and no rules, whether Trans Iowa is really for me, etc. I am sitting here asking myself how my comments have lead to such a negative reaction, and I have to wonder whether it isn't my comments, but who said them and what they said before.

    If my comments were made by nearly anyone else I think you would have taken them at face value. As it is, I believe that you have read into them time and again. My comments have been neither productive nor appreciated, so I will just shut up. Run the race the way you want, I won't challenge you any more.

    Come April I hope to be at your event. I see it as a brevet on gravel, and that idea really excites me. If you go with the post card route I will send in a single post card and see what happens.

    Happy Thanksgiving. Sorry I rubbed you the wrong way. Again.

  165. #165
    your ankles are fat
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    Happy Yankee Thanksgiving Y'all!

    thanks for the fun reading, sounds like it's shaping up wickedly...

    One question that I'm not sure has been asked about the post cards is this: what rating(PG, PG-13, R, et al...) of said postcards are you prepared to receive...we get some pretty "colorful" ones at the shoppe here...

    be ready...


    hehehehe....

  166. #166
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    how about 1 postcard per registrant?

    that's my vote. seems like it would make it more fair.

    plus if the field limit is 100 and there have never been that many folks on the line, then it seems like trying to limit the field is not that big of an issue.

  167. #167
    TEAM TOPEAK - ERGON
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    Teaser Pictures....

    G-Ted has some teaser pics posted
    Attached Images Attached Images

  168. #168
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    Now Moving Past Opinion Gathering Stages.....

    Okay, things are shaping up here for Trans Iowa V3. Here is the latest news for you.

    #1. Date: April 28-29th. Friday the 27th will be a meet and greet socializing thing. Place and time announced later.

    #2: Length of course, approximately 320 miles. We haven't done a final complete drive through yet, so this might change a few miles one way or the other.

    #3: Loop course from Decorah, Iowa running in a clockwise fashion through 11 different Iowa counties and ending in Decorah.

    #4. Entirely different makeup to the course due to the loops location in Iowa. Not as many "B" roads, different makeup to the gravel that's more moisture friendly. We shouldn't have the same problems again as last year even if it does rain as much.

    #5: Post card registration dates announced soon! Stay Tuned!
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

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  169. #169
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    moisture friendly?

    Hmmm
    very interesting
    I think I might have to re arrange my calender.

  170. #170
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    Why?

    Why April 28-29? For a few reasons...

    1. It fits into our schedules as organizers, both personally and professionally

    2. It meshes in with the Decorah Time Trial event...which is what the organizers of that event want.

    3. A little bit better chance of the weather being nicer.

    It came down to either running the event the weekend of the 28-29....or....not running the event at all in '07

  171. #171
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Thanks for your input!

    Just wanted to close out this thread by saying thanks to any and all that participated. We learned alot and enjoyed the discussion here.

    Please direct any further T.I. discussion to the "announcement" thread started today.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

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  172. #172
    RidetoLive,BuildtoRide
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    Blessed with good weather

    My presence will bring the above....or not Looks like Tennessee is out and the trans is in. Picked up me crappy post card via wal-mart.....sending today...

    Peace

    Ouachita Registration opens Dec. 10th
    I'm only as fast as the previous nights 12 pack, and as crazy as Einstein

    www.cyclinglyfestyle.blogspot.com
    http://cyclingtattoogallery.blogspot.com/

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