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  1. #1
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    Tailwind 'logistics'?

    I've now experimented with Tailwind a couple of times and want to use it for my 100s this year. My first longer race of the year is a 60 miler consisting of 4 laps--no issues dealing with this one, and it should be a great trial run. But, what do you Tailwind-philes do for 1 or 2 lap 100 milers do? I want to skip the camelbak this year. I'm going to do the HC100 again--there are 2 drops, miles 54ish and 78ish. How do you insure adequate fuel? Do you bring a small bag with you and refuel at the neutral aid stations?

    Even if you don't plan on using them, do you bring a few blocks as insurance?

  2. #2
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    You will have to figure out how far the aid stations are and work backwards. 54 miles is a long way for the first drop. You can carry some mix in a ziploc bag and have it ready to mix with water available. It also depends on how many bottles you can reasonably carry. I can carry one bottle on my bike and maybe one in my jersey. If the aid stations are much longer than 2 hours apart then I'll strip the bike and just roll with the camelbak. I also carry a pack of shot blocks or couple small payday bars for insurance.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous Man View Post
    You will have to figure out how far the aid stations are and work backwards. 54 miles is a long way for the first drop. You can carry some mix in a ziploc bag and have it ready to mix with water available. It also depends on how many bottles you can reasonably carry. I can carry one bottle on my bike and maybe one in my jersey. If the aid stations are much longer than 2 hours apart then I'll strip the bike and just roll with the camelbak. I also carry a pack of shot blocks or couple small payday bars for insurance.
    Pro tip: don't use a ziplock. Too messy, too imprecise. If it's windy, you might lose a quarter of your stash. A friend of mine was on a gravel grinder last year, dumped a little too much (well, a lot too much) out of his ziplock, went with it anyway, wound up with stomach distress/semi dehydration/big bonk/DNF.

    I went to REI and got a couple of the small nalgene plastic bottles, like 4 oz. One of those holds two bottles worth of powder at my chosen mix.

    And... Tailwind is coming out with single serving 2 kcal stickpacks. I don't know how soon those would be ready. But Jenny and Jeff from Tailwind monitor this forum, they may chime in.

    My system has always been to have a source of clear water with me, and a bottle in my cage with Tailwind. I do far more self-supported things than big rides with aid stations, so I just carry my camelbak with water. I know that's not what you want. But you could bring as light as possible one, and not ever fill it to capacity...

    I agree with Stupendous Man that 54 miles is too far. I guess I'd modify that and say "way too far". I'd be going through 3-4 bottles in that time, depending on difficulty and temperature. And a small bag won't be doing it for you. I'd be bringing 4 or even 5 of my little nalgenes for that. Which you could do in jersey pockets, but your jersey pockets will be pretty busy if you do. And that's assuming you don't need anything but your tailwind.

    The one time last season I went without a pack was the Steamboat Stinger. Only a 50, three aid stations per lap (2 laps). I was barely able to keep up with my nutrition/hydration that day. But it was hot and a very strenuous course.

    EDIT: in case it isn't obvious, you can quite quickly mix a new bottle from a hydration pack by dumping in the right amount of powder then just pinching the bite valve while you bend slightly forward at the waist. Siphon forces will bring out the water. I have a j.paks Snakpak that I put my nalgenes in so I don't even have to take off the pack. Just stop, pull the bottle from the cage, open the top, dump in powder, hose in the water, cap back on, shake it, go.

    SnakPak J.Paks LLC

    Oh, and I've had a Kate's bar in my snakpak for just in case. I pulled it out the other day and the rattling around had worn a hole in the package. It had been in there for most of last season. I love Kate's bars, and eat them all the time, but when I'm pushing my body and fueling with Tailwind I don't feel like eating solids.
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  4. #4
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    I was thinking more along the lines of one ziploc for each bottle, and you'd dump the whole thing in. But I agree there are much better ways of carrying powder than baggies. Ive been trying to think of ways I can do the Mohican without a camelback, but I keep coming back to "keep it simple stupid". Since it will by my first 100 and Im not gunning for a podium spot, I think Ill just ride with the pack.
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  5. #5
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    Tailwind 'logistics'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous Man View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of one ziploc for each bottle, and you'd dump the whole thing in. But I agree there are much better ways of carrying powder than baggies. Ive been trying to think of ways I can do the Mohican without a camelback, but I keep coming back to "keep it simple stupid". Since it will by my first 100 and Im not gunning for a podium spot, I think Ill just ride with the pack.
    I have used (clean dry) gel flasks to carry powder. Easy to dump into a bottle. Bulky when empty if you are not willing to leave them behind.
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    I'm planning on taking 3 bottles for the big loop races (250 calories per bottle); one on the frame, one in a cage mounted on the seatpost, and one in a pocket. I'll give the 2 servings of mix in a 4oz Nalgene a trial run soon. If that leaves me feeling there is an inadequate bonk safety buffer, I'll have to give one of the new 70oz lumbar packs a go.
    Thanks for your comments!

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    Quote Originally Posted by euro-trash View Post
    I'm planning on taking 3 bottles for the big loop races (250 calories per bottle); one on the frame, one in a cage mounted on the seatpost, and one in a pocket. I'll give the 2 servings of mix in a 4oz Nalgene a trial run soon. If that leaves me feeling there is an inadequate bonk safety buffer, I'll have to give one of the new 70oz lumbar packs a go.
    Thanks for your comments!

    I would start with half that amount of calories per bottle (125).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by euro-trash View Post
    I'm planning on taking 3 bottles for the big loop races (250 calories per bottle); one on the frame, one in a cage mounted on the seatpost, and one in a pocket. I'll give the 2 servings of mix in a 4oz Nalgene a trial run soon. If that leaves me feeling there is an inadequate bonk safety buffer, I'll have to give one of the new 70oz lumbar packs a go.
    Thanks for your comments!
    Seat post mounted water bottle. Great call for big separation aid stations if you dislike packs.

    In these instances, I also use the trick of "nursing" my way through a liter bottle with about 350 calories during the two hours before the start of a 100. I like this approach a lot, especially since my stomach doesn't always great breakfast enthusiastically at 4:30 AM.
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    I use ziplock bags even in windy conditions but they are the snack sized bags(half a sandwich bag) and I only put one bottles worth into each bag that way you just dump the whole thing and go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RojoRacing53 View Post
    I use ziplock bags even in windy conditions but they are the snack sized bags(half a sandwich bag) and I only put one bottles worth into each bag that way you just dump the whole thing and go.
    THIS ^^^
    I also carry 3 bottles, two on bike, one in jersey...should get me 3 hours depending on conditions.

    and I'm digging the non-flavored tailwind currently...

  11. #11
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    I use film canisters. Holds just enough of another brand for a single bottle.
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  12. #12
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    Tailwind 'logistics'?

    Quote Originally Posted by claystrick View Post
    THIS ^^^
    I also carry 3 bottles, two on bike, one in jersey...should get me 3 hours depending on conditions.

    and I'm digging the non-flavored tailwind currently...
    What is "film".

    Have not seen a film canister in many years.
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  13. #13
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    Tailwind 'logistics'?

    I used Tailwind for the Cohutta 100 this year. It proved well for hydration, sodium, and keeping the cramps away. I used a little over 2 scoops per bottle and had a bottle an hour. Around the 4 hour mark I started getting hungry though. Just keep in mind to maybe snack on a little food as well throughout the race. Tailwind is good, but for me I realized I needed food as well.


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  14. #14
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    Same for me. I've done every imaginable serving scenario with Tailwind or an Ultima Replenisher with maltodextrin and/or salt combo and/or protein (Ultima seems to be like Tailwind with a splash of sea salt but costs a whole lot less??) to the point of keeping bloating or GI issues away but I simply need a bit more food. Just a titch.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT1 View Post
    I used Tailwind for the Cohutta 100 this year. It proved well for hydration, sodium, and keeping the cramps away. I used a little over 2 scoops per bottle and had a bottle an hour. Around the 4 hour mark I started getting hungry though. Just keep in mind to maybe snack on a little food as well throughout the race. Tailwind is good, but for me I realized I needed food as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by desnaephoto View Post
    I use film canisters. Holds just enough of another brand for a single bottle.
    A readily available alternative is one of those little plastic tubes that airborne, nuun, or other tablets come in. The other option I've used is a small prescription meds bottle with the label removed, but these are a little harder to operate with one hand.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RojoRacing53 View Post
    I use ziplock bags even in windy conditions but they are the snack sized bags(half a sandwich bag) and I only put one bottles worth into each bag that way you just dump the whole thing and go.
    ^^^ Another vote for this.
    Snack zip-lock, 2 scoops (1 bottle worth) per bag.
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    Single serve packets are now for sale on the website.

  18. #18
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    I'm putting 2 scoops in 28oz bottles and finding I still need to supplement when on 4-5 hr rides -- 1/2 a Cliff bar every 2 hrs.
    Any thoughts about if this is counter-productive? Would it be better to up my TW/water ratio?
    I guess this is simply a YMMV issue.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by claystrick View Post
    THIS ^^^
    I also carry 3 bottles, two on bike, one in jersey...should get me 3 hours depending on conditions.

    and I'm digging the non-flavored tailwind currently...

    Question: how close to straight water does the "non flavored" Tailwind taste? Can you tell the difference?

  20. #20
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    To me it's pretty plain but sweet which is kinda weird. I mix my naked with one or two of those fizzy electrolyte tablets that are lemon flavored in a 25oz bottle.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    To me it's pretty plain but sweet which is kinda weird. I mix my naked with one or two of those fizzy electrolyte tablets that are lemon flavored in a 25oz bottle.
    Used Tailwind for the first time this past weekend. I have berry flavor. It certainly seems to work, but it was sweeter than I was expecting. It was fine for three hours, but not sure how I'm going to like it for 7 to 9 hours.

  22. #22
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    Tailwind is a great product. For a race as long as HC100, a little solid food every couple of hours is good for the stomach. Eat about 3 x 33 calorie bites over the course of 20 minutes or more chased down with water. If you are not carrying water then every time you hit an aid station grab something solid they have on the table, take a bite and chase it with a cup of water.

    +1 on the snack pack size ziplok bags. Lightweight and compact. 1 serving per bag. Don't open the bag at the regular opening but bite off a corner and use it as a pouring spout. You can get it all in your bottle with no mess, waste or sticky fingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyndaW View Post
    Tailwind is a great product. For a race as long as HC100, a little solid food every couple of hours is good for the stomach. Eat about 3 x 33 calorie bites over the course of 20 minutes or more chased down with water. If you are not carrying water then every time you hit an aid station grab something solid they have on the table, take a bite and chase it with a cup of water.

    +1 on the snack pack size ziplok bags. Lightweight and compact. 1 serving per bag. Don't open the bag at the regular opening but bite off a corner and use it as a pouring spout. You can get it all in your bottle with no mess, waste or sticky fingers.
    Lynda: I think this is good advice and likely what I will end up doing for long races, particularly the Carrabassett 100 and Park City P2P. Although it seemed to be working great this past weekend I cant see going the entire day without eating some solids and drinking some straight up water. I like to eat waaay too much

  24. #24
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    TomP's idea of using 4oz nalgene plastic bottles in conjunction with the camelback worked great. I had one empty bottle in the cage to use measure the amount of water I was adding. I wasn't hungry and cramps from bonking were non-existent. I picked the bottles up off of ebay and so they were pretty cheap to boot.
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    Naked taste (weird concept)

    Quote Originally Posted by wgerow View Post
    Question: how close to straight water does the "non flavored" Tailwind taste? Can you tell the difference?
    I tried the Naked flavor last weekend on a long MTB ride. I used it in a 100 ounce Camelbak and finished that in 5 hours or so, then refilled at a municipal pool water fountain for the last couple hours.

    With my home tap water to start, the Naked tasted sweet and a little salty, but no flavor. With the water-fountain water, I could really tell that it wasn't great tasting water! I was wishing for some flavor then to mask the yucky city water taste.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaMustang View Post
    I'm putting 2 scoops in 28oz bottles and finding I still need to supplement when on 4-5 hr rides -- 1/2 a Cliff bar every 2 hrs.
    Any thoughts about if this is counter-productive? Would it be better to up my TW/water ratio?
    I guess this is simply a YMMV issue.
    I'd say go up to 2.5-3 scoops. How long is the 28oz bottle lasting you? That's the question. I was using 3 scoops/bottle for 1:15 laps at the 24 in the Old Pueblo and I didn't feel the need for anything else. I did grab two nutter-butter cookies while adding layers around 10pm, but I think, if anything, the solid food just slows down digestion and makes it more likely you'll get behind on your calories. If you think about it, the only difference between solid and liquid food is that your body has to take time and energy to turn the solid foods into a liquid before it can digest it. Two scoops per hour will definitely leave you getting behind on calories, I would aim for at least 250 calories/hour, maybe 280. BTW, to answer the original question. I carry separate baggies for each bottle. I'm not sure if I lose more time stopping to pour them in, or if I would lose more time from carrying the weight of extra bottles... Definitely less energy expended from just carrying the powder, and standing up off the bike for a minute is frequently a welcome break anyway.
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    Make up a super concentrated fuel bottle and sip on that, then just use the water stations for... water.

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