One hard-tail frame for racing and training- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    renaissance cyclist
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    One hard-tail frame for racing and training

    *if you want to skip the story, the actual question is at the end*

    I am posting here because 100/50 mile & 24-hour races are what I used to do and I would like to get back into. A few years ago as I was moving from WA to AZ, the moving company lost my mountain bikes (Anthem 29er and a redline D440 rigid 29er) Also, as I was driving from Wa to Az I lost all muscle control and sensation in one of my legs which upon my Arrival resulted in a diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis.

    A few months later. after the right combination of drugs got me feeling mostly normal again, I used the insurance money I got from the moving company to buy a new bike. I was always faster on my rigid bike, but for rides or races lasting more than an hour or two I preferred the Anthem. I decided to split the difference between the two and ended up getting a Carbon XTC. I did feel like hardtail 29er was the right combination of pedaling efficiency and not feeling too badly beaten on longer rides.

    Here is the problemÖ since moving to AZ/getting MS/changing bikes, I have taken more flights over the handlebars in the last year and a half than I had previously done in the last 10 years. They havenít been the typical braking on the front wheel too hard in a descent like what I used to do when I first started ridingÖ mostly it felt like the handlebar was yanked out of my hand and the front wheel is turned perpendicular to my path of motion. I donít actually know if this is a result of riding on rockier trails than Iím used to, the geometry of the 2006 XTC or a loss of balance and coordination due to MS (Those are common symptoms of, but I donít notice having them other than when wrecking on my bike)

    As a result of all of the aforementioned crashing, I ended up with a broken chainstay on my XTC frame. I was always skeptical of Carbon being able to stand up to the occasional impacts that inevitably happen from time to time on a mountain bike, and with my recent experience, I donít want another carbon frame. For crash replacement Giant no longer makes an Aluminum XTC and they offered a Fathom frame for $350. The Fathom is more of a hard-tail trail bike than an race bike, which may actually help with my flying over the handlebars problem.

    Now that I am in Arizona, If I can regain my confidence on the bike, I do plan to make the Whiskey 50 an annual tradition and hope to get on a relay team for some local 24/12- hour races. The team I was on in Wa actually made it onto the podium from time to time in 24-hour races. In the Whiskey 50 Iíll mostly just be racing against my own previous times, but in smaller races I will try to be competitive. I ordered The Fathom frame, but it is taking forever and while I wait I am wondering if Iím going to be kicking myself for not getting something more racy and end up in the market for another bike when I donít get the results I want.

    Iím wondering what all you endurance racers would do... if you had all the components for a hard-tail 29er to use for both racing and training, what non-carbon frame would you get?

  2. #2
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    aluminum highball, niner air 9, alu pro cal, spec epic ht, vassago verhauen

    or a Chinese carbon frame

  3. #3
    renaissance cyclist
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    Hmmmm... I wasn't aware of Vassago, I think I want one.

  4. #4
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by debusama View Post
    Hmmmm... I wasn't aware of Vassago, I think I want one.
    Dude...Vassago Optimus Ti, FTW. Disclaimer: I have two, and use them for the same purposes as you.

    Message me, and Iíll give you a shit-ton of info and pics if you want, and connect you to Tom, the owner.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  5. #5
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    These Lynskey TI frames are on sell right now. It's designed for a 100 or 120 fork so if your still going over the bars pop a 120 on it to slacken it out some.
    It also accepts a 2.3 tire so you can run something like a 2.3 XR2 in the rear.

    Lynskey MT 29 Titanium Frame 2017 | Chain Reaction Cycles
    Last edited by party_wagon; 03-23-2018 at 08:58 AM.

  6. #6
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    Ritchey P29er is a good option also. I will throw in another plus one on Vassago, I currently race a Jabberwocky.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Ritchey P29er is a good option also.
    I just built one up, put my first ride on it today. So far so good...
    One hard-tail frame for racing and training-p29.jpg

  8. #8
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    I just built one up, put my first ride on it today. So far so good...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    If this frame had sliding dropouts, it's what I would be riding right now... I can't understand why companies still make hard tails with vertical dropouts.

  9. #9
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    Aluminum Highball. Swingers and 142 option. 120 fork.

  10. #10
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    What ever you get try test riding a size up. These rocky AZ trails reward a longer more stable bike in my opinion and try a dropper if you haven't all ready. I have a dropper on one of may bikes but not my race bike. It does make riding fast down hill more forgiving because you can really get your weight to the outside of the bike. Combination dropper plus longer reach...A bit less likely to go OTB. Saw a great write up on one of the sites...bike radar maybe...on the Al Procal. Apparently that isodamper really works even on Aluminum. I have the carbon version.

  11. #11
    Keep on Rockin...
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    Quote Originally Posted by debusama View Post
    *if you want to skip the story, the actual question is at the end*

    I am posting here because 100/50 mile & 24-hour races are what I used to do and I would like to get back into. A few years ago as I was moving from WA to AZ, the moving company lost my mountain bikes (Anthem 29er and a redline D440 rigid 29er) Also, as I was driving from Wa to Az I lost all muscle control and sensation in one of my legs which upon my Arrival resulted in a diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis.

    A few months later. after the right combination of drugs got me feeling mostly normal again, I used the insurance money I got from the moving company to buy ua new bike. I was always faster on my rigid bike, but for rides or races lasting more than an hour or two I preferred the Anthem. I decided to split the difference between the two and ended up getting a Carbon XTC. I did feel like hardtail 29er was the right combination of pedaling efficiency and not feeling too badly beaten on longer rides.

    Here is the problemÖ since moving to AZ/getting MS/changing bikes, I have taken more flights over the handlebars in the last year and a half than I had previously done in the last 10 years. They havenít been the typical braking on the front wheel too hard in a descent like what I used to do when I first started ridingÖ mostly it felt like the handlebar was yanked out of my hand and the front wheel is turned perpendicular to my path of motion. I donít actually know if this is a result of riding on rockier trails than Iím used to, the geometry of the 2006 XTC or a loss of balance and coordination due to MS (Those are common symptoms of, but I donít notice having them other than when wrecking on my bike)

    As a result of all of the aforementioned crashing, I ended up with a broken chainstay on my XTC frame. I was always skeptical of Carbon being able to stand up to the occasional impacts that inevitably happen from time to time on a mountain bike, and with my recent experience, I donít want another carbon frame. For crash replacement Giant no longer makes an Aluminum XTC and they offered a Fathom frame for $350. The Fathom is more of a hard-tail trail bike than an race bike, which may actually help with my flying over the handlebars problem.

    Now that I am in Arizona, If I can regain my confidence on the bike, I do plan to make the Whiskey 50 an annual tradition and hope to get on a relay team for some local 24/12- hour races. The team I was on in Wa actually made it onto the podium from time to time in 24-hour races. In the Whiskey 50 Iíll mostly just be racing against my own previous times, but in smaller races I will try to be competitive. I ordered The Fathom frame, but it is taking forever and while I wait I am wondering if Iím going to be kicking myself for not getting something more racy and end up in the market for another bike when I donít get the results I want.

    Iím wondering what all you endurance racers would do... if you had all the components for a hard-tail 29er to use for both racing and training, what non-carbon frame would you get?
    Tuned in.

    Sorry to hear about the diagnosis.

    Get your eyes checked. Field cut? (Have you had your visual fields checked?)
    Last edited by Miker J; 03-28-2018 at 03:58 AM.

  12. #12
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    TBH, with the modern bikes nowdays there's no real benefit at a normal persons level of speed to go with a HT. Get yourself on something like a Salsa Spearfish, Scott Spark etc... Get the advantage of Full Suss, but without any other real penalty.

  13. #13
    I should be out riding
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoAgain View Post
    What ever you get try test riding a size up. These rocky AZ trails reward a longer more stable bike in my opinion and try a dropper if you haven't all ready. I have a dropper on one of may bikes but not my race bike. It does make riding fast down hill more forgiving because you can really get your weight to the outside of the bike. Combination dropper plus longer reach...A bit less likely to go OTB. Saw a great write up on one of the sites...bike radar maybe...on the Al Procal. Apparently that isodamper really works even on Aluminum. I have the carbon version.
    For a similar reason, I was going to suggest the Santa Cruz Chameleon over the Highball. It's heavy IMO for XC, but if avoiding OTB trips is a primary goal, the longer reach/shorter stem will help. Also, back here in WA, I see lots of people going pretty fast on AM hardtails.
    If it's not powered solely by you, it's motorized.

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  14. #14
    mtbr member
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    have you read through the Chinese carbon hardtail thread?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ch...640919-95.html

    Might be worth looking through if you are interested in a lower cost option to test out new geometry. Also, shorten the stem, get wider bars, and try out a dropper.

  15. #15
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    Reaching out to all the XTC forums.

    I have a brand new 2018 XTC Advanced 1 29er for sale in an XL.
    Never ridden; still in the box.
    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2511932/
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/xt...nced-29-1-2018

    GX, SID, carbon wheels.

    You can run it 27.5+ or even 29+ with the right fork and wheels!!!

    check it out. $2500.00

  16. #16
    AK kid who LOVES bikes!
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    Get a trek stache! Itís 29+ and is a race rocket! Iíve ridden the trek procaliber (Xc race bike) and it doesnít feel any faster than the stache, just beats you up. The 29+ rolls over everything and is very fast while at the same time providing cushion and crazy grip! I have done many very long rides on mine and do a 106 mile mtb race each year with 11,000 ft of climbing and 98 miles of single track, the stache is what all the winners use and the course record holder! Mine is a 2018 stache 9.7 with carbon rims, XX1 Cassete, X01 derailer, and a bunch of other upgrades. My buddy has a stache 5 and even it feels crazy fast! And yes, if youíre a 180 pound grinder like me a hard tail is way better for racing, I donít care what trek or any company says about pedal bob elimination, when you stand and grind your losing efficiency! Full squish is for weakling spinners! ;-)

  17. #17
    AK kid who LOVES bikes!
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    I guess the terrain you want to ride dictates the choice more so than how long..... if youíre wanting to go shred the enduro track day in day out go full squish, but it doesnít sound like you do since you mentioned a full ridged bike..... that makes me wonder how much single track and trail riding youíll actually be doing, if itís mostly fire roads and double wide smooth trails you should definitely go with a devoted XC hardtail as it will provide some advantages in terms of speed even though my stache feels about the same.

    Here in Alaska I need an incredibly versatile bike because of our very versatile terrain. Some days Iím racing on fire roads, some days itís gnarly rock filled single track, other days itís hub deep mud or slick roots on a 5 mile downhill. The stache is one of those bikes that can get you on the XC podium (and make the weight weinie XC guys fear you on a plus bike), then afterwards go shred some laps on the jump track. You can seriously send it on this bike! Funny thing is though, people in the states seem to be less enthusiastic about it for some reason saying that itís just a weird middle ground between full suspension and XC, but I personally love it because it can not only do everything well, it often supersedes the purpose built bikes in their field!

    Anyways, go cruise around all your local shops and go ride bikes! Once you choose a bike from a shop, please do yourself and the shop a favor by being a loyal customer there. I work at a shop and believe me, when youíre a regular youíll get special treatment and discounts as well as faster and better service. Iíd say that choosing the shop is more important than the bike, they know the areas youíll ride, ask all the right questions, and will give solid advice! Just be sure to find a shop with a broad age range of employees and ask them their opinion, the older and weathered veterans will give practical advice, the young guns will know all the latest tech, and everyone in between will have advice and experience that a shop filled with millennials at REI wonít

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