Grand Loop Race 2007- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Scott in Tucson
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    Grand Loop Race 2007

    Yesterday the temperature was roughly eight dimes. With the afternoon sun in my face, I was pedaling my 34 pound behemoth up rock and through bramble. Sweat running off my brow, stinging my eyes... I felt great, felt alive.

    After four hours the sun headache set in and my stomach turned.

    An unmistakable, scary, flashback..... North Beaver Mesa...

    ...The Grand Loop.

    Lot's of hot air about another race that starts with a “G.” Is anyone thinking about the GLR?

    [cue crickets]

    I am. Kinda. Heaven knows why.

    All I can think about is how unbearably hot it was, and how it really wasn't all that fun to ride much of the course. Jefe asked in his comments last year "WHY?" Why do we put ourselves in that position? Why seek out adventure?

    I don't know for sure. I wondered the same thing while out there. But the proof is in the puddin', and here I am thinking about racing it <i>again</i>. There's just something to it, something that captivates, and I can't explain it. My writeup from last year fails completely.

    Talk is talk, riding is action.

    Anyone else?

    June 1 - https://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html

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  2. #2
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    no answers here

    Krein

    I have about zero insight on the WHY stuff but I do enjoy reading posts like this one from more accomplished endurance racers such as yourself and others. I guess its sort of encouraging in a funny sort of way.

    Your Talk is talk, riding is action comment strikes home


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  3. #3
    Time to go farther
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    Glr

    I'm planning on being there.
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  4. #4
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    Why? Because modern life does not satisfy our prehistoric need to chase & be chased. A thing called adrenaline has been removed from the surprises we face. Our existence has been tamed, and by doing these sorts of events I think we are seeking to regain a bit of our primal selves. GLR, KTR, GDR...they present an optimal intersection of physical, mental, emotional demands that when faced and overcome really let you know you're alive.

    Or maybe we just like to ride a lot?

    Earlier this winter, before & after surgery, I had a lot of time to think on the GLR. I'm still thinking. I've been attracted to this event for some time. This year I'm not certain the body above the waist is ready...but as good as doing GLR vicariously through the great reports is, I'd rather be there with y'all. We'll see.
    Dave

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  5. #5
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    Grand F'ing Loop?

    Yeah it haunts me, I can flash back with ease. Suddenly i feel that deperate panic pounding with adrenaline, that cooked beyond recogintion totally used up feeling. Oh my, i was about 24 hours in when Scott and I hit Fischer creek in the La Sals, and i swear at the time i was never going to do this again, never, my mind and body was in revolt, " you foolish dupe!" And to be honest the first 24 were the easiest part. Not to discourage anyone from an attempt, but imagine this, a 24 hour race, a 100 mile race and then another 24 hour race, back to back, little sleep, horrible trail conditions, and carrying everything on your back and bike. No one to clap and encourage you on, keep you company, make you food, fill your camelback. It was one of those experiences that i will never be able to forget, trully life changing, yet it still hurts a bit deep down. All last summer i was cooked, tired after a few hours on the bike, got cooked easily. Yet i will admit that a month or so afterward i was going over my lists of s&*t and sorting out how to be lighter, faster, smarter. So yeah i will do it again someday but not this year, I got the AZ 300 and the CTR on my mind, suffering is good for you! If scott does it beware he could blow that record out of the desert dust. Peace Jefe

  6. #6
    Just go ride!
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    Do it again, Scott!

    After all, I'm gonna need some tracks to follow again this year! :-)

    Seriously though, I am definitely doing the CTR. Unfortunately, that only leaves room on my new-job+wife-time-off plate for either the GLR or the AZT. I am completely torn! Both of these races are so incredibly compelling, but only 1 is gonna happen for me this year.

    For me, the AZT would be 300 miles of unseen terrain with lots of planning and map work - both very inviting! However, it is also a much longer drive, and a very distinct non-loop, thus making return logistics a bit harder. Plus, at the rate I'm going, I'll have ridden all of 200 miles this year by the time the race date arrives.

    The GLR will be familiar. I know what I would be getting into, and I could push myself much, much harder than last year - both very inviting! I'll also be in a lot better shape by then, the drive is short, and it's a loop. On the other hand, I did at least finish it last year, and the draw of doing something new is powerful. I have also thought about "fast-touring" the Grand Loop, independent of the race, and riding (or hike-a-biking?) the re-routed Paradox trail which avoids Bedrock.

    So many choices, and all of them good! Right now though, I am leaning heavily towards the GLR. These trails aren't going anywhere, and I have a steadfast mindset to push myself at MTB racing this year. I absolutely love that loads of free, self-supported races have been popping up all over the place this year! Motivating and inspiring, these are the races that really draw me in.

    As for anyone who is on the fence about the GLR - just go do it! Finish or not, it will be a rewarding and learning experience, that words can't properly describe.
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  7. #7
    frejwilk
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    I think this year might be the one I give this a shot. I've had thoughts of this race for a while too. I've had thoughts of touring it for years before I was aware that others were time-trialing it. I guess the extra draw of competition is the little extra push for me to actually make plans. Maybe by posting this, I'll have good incentive to stay on track.

    Hopefully I'll still feel this way in June. I hope to see a bunch of the usual suspects at the start.

    FW

  8. #8
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    More thinkin'

    So as I write this the temp is hovering around 0F so it's easy to think the heat of early June is inviting. I keep thinking about this event...back and forth...but I think it's gonna get the nod. The pull is strong.

    Question for the alumni: how was your recovery after this event? Jefe's sounds rough...Stefen, Krein? I can't really afford to jeapordize the rest of the season. The rest of June is flexible, but July-Oct not so much. I'd be riding to finish, test some equipment (lights, of course ), get the feel for this sort of event - but not really racing.

    Into the unknown, spurred on by Iditabike tales of adventure.
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  9. #9
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    The pull is strong.

    Question for the alumni: how was your recovery after this event? Jefe's sounds rough...Stefen, Krein?
    Mine was rough as well. You don't want to hear the answer I have.

    This is a major consideration for me this year in picking events. I'm tired of missing out on other fun (primarily normal riding, but other races too).

    Yet, the pull is strong.

    ...but not really racing.
    I've heard (and said) that before. I'll believe it when I see it.

    I don't think there's any way to do something like the GLR in a sustainable way. For me, at least. Other people may be better at tempering their pace and forcing rest/sleep. I don't know.

    Some good thoughts (above), everyone. Good to see I'm not the only one torn about participating in this thing. I had myself talked into it a few times while following the race to McGrath. Then reality kicked in with the phrase "never again." I'll never forget the places and circumstances that led to the utterance of that phrase.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Mine was rough as well. You don't want to hear the answer I have.
    I do. Really.

    I just re-read your report this morning. It's a beauty...twisted but beautiful. It sounded to me as though you were already in a hole at the start of the event (from a fitness perspective) as witnessed by the amount of time it took you to get going. 25 hours!!! I don't mean unfit - I mean your state of recovery at the start sounded waay low. Topping that training load with the GLR had to hurt.

    So how bad did it hurt?

    I'd really like to hear from Stefan cause he rode it like I'd plan on riding it this year.
    Dave

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  11. #11
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I just re-read your report this morning. It's a beauty...twisted but beautiful. It sounded to me as though you were already in a hole at the start of the event (from a fitness perspective) as witnessed by the amount of time it took you to get going. 25 hours!!! I don't mean unfit - I mean your state of recovery at the start sounded waay low.
    Yeah, the first 24 hours were hard. I felt pretty terrible starting at about hour three.

    There are so many factors that it's hard to know what the cause was. One thing is certain -- the focus for last year was the 300, and I trained hard during the winter to peak for it. The rest was kinda downhill...

    But it's easy to use that as an out. Jefe was right there with me, riding the same pace and falling apart just the same as I was. The effect of the heat (leading up to and in the beginning) can't be under-valued. Combine that with stomach problems and all the other little things that come when you ride all night and you've got a recipe for a rough 24 hours. One of the great things about these events is that you can recover from some pretty low spots and still come out well. There's enough time.

    Topping that training load with the GLR had to hurt.

    So how bad did it hurt?
    Yep. I didn't feel "strong" again until ~October. But I did ride most of the CT with Mike in August, and that put me even deeper in the hole. Finally had the discipline to take significant time off in the fall.

    I'd really like to hear from Stefan cause he rode it like I'd plan on riding it this year.
    Based on his smoking traverse of the CT, I'm guessing the GLR didn't phase him too much. If you can force yourself to take it "easy" I'll wager you'll be fine, especially given how finely tuned you've got your training system.
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  12. #12
    Time to go farther
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    Stephan was pretty quick at a hill climb we did a couple weeks after GLR last year. Mentally he seemed pretty with it too but you'd have to get the straight skinny from him. Oh Stephan...
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  13. #13
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    Thanks Scott, that helps a lot.

    It's always tough to know how much you can get away with. Every year I push to that point of needing an extended break. Last year I had two forced breaks.

    Sleep deprivation is a killer for me. You seem to be relatively unfazed by it. That's quite gift in wolf's clothing.

    It's gotta be hard to peak for a June event living in Tucson anyway, eh? In any case, I'm with Stephan - I hope you do GLR again this year so someone with a GPS can blaze the way
    Dave

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  14. #14
    Really I am that slow
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    This is so temping

    However with maybe Rimride,TI3, KTR I think i'll be going kinda mellow beginning of June leading up to GDR..... Maybe 08 well be grand loop, az stuff, and Co trail?

    This route looks so cool to me....!
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  15. #15
    I'm how far behind?
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    Not this year

    I'll be on a work trip. I think I'm ok with it...


    It is still on my list, just not this year. Besides, I would hate to be still recovering from this race when I start the Colorado Trail Race. I keep thinking back to some of Scott's posts about his and Mike's adventure on the CT, I think rest is a good thing. Summer is so damn short that I'm tempted to cram way too much into it.

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  16. #16
    Just go ride!
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    Just do it!

    Hey Dave-

    As I'm sure you have experienced first hand, and as Scott has already alluded to, there are really 2 types of equally important recovery for a race/ride like the GLR: Mental and Physical. I'll try to address both to the best of my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'd be riding to finish, test some equipment (lights, of course ), get the feel for this sort of event - but not really racing.
    The GLR was my first self-supported multi-day ride, and this is basically the same approach I took last year. Aside from riding all night the first night, I slept ~6 hours per night, ate loads of food, and kept myself hydrated. Sure, I basically rode from dawn to dusk for 4 days straight, and it was smoking hot and miserable at times, but I was very careful to stay in tune with my body and not to let anyone else's pace dictate my own. It sounds crazy, but in short, this led to a physical recovery time of almost zero! I don't know very much about training science, but I think this was due to my diet and keeping my heart rate in the aerobic or lower zone 95% of the time. (I could greatly benefit from some of your knowledge there...) Anyway, even just a week or two after the GLR, I felt in top physical shape, especially for short, sprint rides. In fact, I even entered one of those races you have to pay for (the Winter Park Hill climb that Chris mentioned), and was utterly surprised to actually win the 30-34 Men's Expert! Albeit, that may have been more a case of the big guns being absent in my division...

    On the other hand, the mental recovery was quite a bit longer. I could push myself hard for an hour or two, but I really had no desire for longer rides that required much preparation or planning. I didn't ride more than ~30 miles in one go until seeing you at the CB-100. However, part of this may also have been because I was somewhat overwhelmed preparing for the Colorado Trail traverse at the end of July. That thing was a completely different story - I pushed myself so hard (mentally and physically) for those 7+ days that it was easily a month for full recovery.

    So, assuming you can actually reign in your eager legs , I don't see why you couldn't incorporate the GLR into part of your larger training plan for some insane July-Oct efforts. In fact, I would love to push myself to the limit and try to keep up with your "not really racing" pace.
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  17. #17
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    Good job! I'm in!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    So, assuming you can actually reign in your eager legs , I don't see why you couldn't incorporate the GLR into part of your larger training plan for some insane July-Oct efforts. In fact, I would love to push myself to the limit and try to keep up with your "not really racing" pace.
    Here we go...I'm already waking up at 3am thinking about gear, waking up under stars to ride some more...misc racks have been ordered and overnighters are in the very near future.

    Is there a better sport than cycling? It challenges in so many incarnations.
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  18. #18
    Just go ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Here we go...I'm already waking up at 3am thinking about gear, waking up under stars to ride some more...misc racks have been ordered and overnighters are in the very near future.

    Is there a better sport than cycling? It challenges in so many incarnations.
    Ahhhhh yes, the all-consuming nature of the GLR!

    "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."
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    "Welcome to the real world"
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  19. #19
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    Oh yes the GLR haunts on and on. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that the AZ 300 isn't gonna happen this year, a bunch of s*&t is going on that is getting in the way. I can't stop thinking about the CTR, i love the colorado trail so much that i would quit my job to pull it off. In the wake of no AZ 300 i am thinking about all sorts of things. Koko and yes i admit i got the GLR maps out the other night and studied that bastard, looking at where i went wrong,etc etc. I don't think i could do the GLR and recover for the CTR. Honestly while out on the GLR i couldn't imagine being out there longer, as Stephen did, yet he seemed to recover quicker than Scott and I. Yet i admit the temptation is there, the Pull is strong! So DH it is not an easy thing to forget and it will haunt your whole season if you push it while out there, yet you will love the suffering! At the same time looking at your results, DH dave, it maybe a very different situation to recover for you as you are at a whole nother level than I. Hope to see some of ya out there this season, take care Jefe

  20. #20
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    What kind of GPS units are you guys using for these rides? I have the Garmin ForeRunner 101 wristwatch style that uses 2AAA batteries but it has no computer interface. The rest of the wrist watch styles with computer interface have Lithium Ion batteries that only last about 14-15 hours. Can anyone set me in the right direction on what GPS will work the best for this type of riding.
    Josh

  21. #21
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdarnell
    What kind of GPS units are you guys using for these rides? I have the Garmin ForeRunner 101 wristwatch style that uses 2AAA batteries but it has no computer interface. The rest of the wrist watch styles with computer interface have Lithium Ion batteries that only last about 14-15 hours. Can anyone set me in the right direction on what GPS will work the best for this type of riding.
    Josh
    Josh --

    Unfortunately the 101 will only be slightly more useful than a cyclocomputer out there.

    As you noted, you need one that takes replaceable batteries and also can connect to a computer. Being able to upload base topo maps would be very useful too.

    I used a Garmin GPSMap 60CS last year. But something like the LegendCX would get the job done as well.

    Note that no one has published a GPS track of the GL to follow, and I'm keeping mine under lock and key (many have asked). So, a GPS is not quite as useful as it may seem.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Josh --

    Unfortunately the 101 will only be slightly more useful than a cyclocomputer out there.

    As you noted, you need one that takes replaceable batteries and also can connect to a computer. Being able to upload base topo maps would be very useful too.

    I used a Garmin GPSMap 60CS last year. But something like the LegendCX would get the job done as well.

    Note that no one has published a GPS track of the GL to follow, and I'm keeping mine under lock and key (many have asked). So, a GPS is not quite as useful as it may seem.

    Scott-

    Thanks for the sending me in the right direction. As far as the GL tracks go thats a bummer that they are unavailable but if I do the GL this year I will have them afterwards for future reference, and just like you I will keep them under lock and key!

  23. #23
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    conditions

    I'm in for this event this year. The question is when.

    I've put up a few bits about local conditions here, both current and projected. If you're reading this thread you've likely already seen MCs account of the '02 event, but if not check it out. It's an eye-popper.

    The long and short of it is that if conditions pan out as expected, the Tab will be snow free darn soon. In my mind, that makes the June 1 date sub-optimal for the conditions. Since this bear is a self-supported TT, it can be done at anytime. I've already got a block set aside for a 24 hour event in early May, and depending on how things look in the next few weeks might bail on the 24 and do a GLR attempt early May instead of early June. Schedule-wise it works quite well.

    I do know that if conditions are roasting hot and dry June 1 I will not start. I have no intention of going head to head with desert terrain in drought condtions. I'll lose.

    This is really just me thinking online...in no way am I trying to change the event date. It's not like we'll be riding together much anyway

    Thoughts?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'm in for this event this year. The question is when.

    I've put up a few bits about local conditions here, both current and projected. If you're reading this thread you've likely already seen MCs account of the '02 event, but if not check it out. It's an eye-popper.

    The long and short of it is that if conditions pan out as expected, the Tab will be snow free darn soon. In my mind, that makes the June 1 date sub-optimal for the conditions. Since this bear is a self-supported TT, it can be done at anytime. I've already got a block set aside for a 24 hour event in early May, and depending on how things look in the next few weeks might bail on the 24 and do a GLR attempt early May instead of early June. Schedule-wise it works quite well.

    I do know that if conditions are roasting hot and dry June 1 I will not start. I have no intention of going head to head with desert terrain in drought condtions. I'll lose.

    This is really just me thinking online...in no way am I trying to change the event date. It's not like we'll be riding together much anyway

    Thoughts?
    Damn your fast and smart

    Sounds Like a good idea.... Barring no more snow is coming or if its rainy for some reason would not want to have to deal with any of those washes or creek beds with water in them

    I look forward to your ride report!
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot
    Damn your fast and smart

    Sounds Like a good idea.... Barring no more snow is coming or if its rainy for some reason would not want to have to deal with any of those washes or creek beds with water in them

    I look forward to your ride report!
    I'm generally smarter than fast...but common sense sometimes lags behind both hence the post here
    Dave

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  26. #26
    frejwilk
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'm in for this event this year. The question is when.



    Thoughts?

    Dave,

    Your thinking is sound. Things look a little ominous right now.

    I'm wondering about the weather too. It's hard for me to process likely conditions this far out, but I can see the potential. Things can sometimes be different in June than they looked like earlier though. Maybe that's hope as much as past experience talking...

    ** note I'm talking out loud to myself and others now (no one in particular),

    I am still excited by this as a race. Personally, I don't have as much interest in time trials, or individual record attempts. I prefer competing against, and with others. Same course, same conditions, same finish line. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy and do many long difficult solo rides. That's different. The draw for me here is lining up with a bunch of other like minded folks, and seeing what we can do.

    It could be a tough situation this year. For me, part of the draw of this event is planning for such a wide range of conditions. It would take away from that to change dates, or anything else. It's been tough before, will be tough this time, and it will be there again.

    I'll keep my eye on the weather, and other rider's plans. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to line up together in some form.

    FW

  27. #27
    Time to go farther
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    Race

    I'm in and for the original date unless that changes as the official race date. I too like racing with others even if it's only a handful of my friends and we see each other only a few times. If the weather makes the race hard(er) and hot and I get spanked I will come home with my tail between my legs and knowledge for another attempt another year. Preriding so far has been quite valuable and I'm going to try to squeeze in as much as I can still this year.
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  28. #28
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'm in for this event this year. The question is when.

    Thoughts?
    Ah, Dave. Pre-riding the course, using a GPS, now starting early? What's next, a jet pack?

    Only ribbin' ya.

    I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of a GLR solo TT. But to be honest there still is some appeal to doing it in June. It's hard to explain, but it's kinda the GLR experience.

    '02 was a disaster year, and if there's a forest fire within 300 miles, there's no chance I'll be there. But I don't think low snow levels now necessarily mean a terrible year. I may stand corrected on this, but I also think many of the water sources (almost every one I used last year) should still be there. As long as nothing is burning and there's no 40 mph wind, it could possibly be better (cooler) than last year.

    June does have some incredibly long days, and having other people on course does have some appeal too (good points Fred). Having done a couple solo TT's, though, they certainly have their merits as well.

    I'm sure MC will chime in here with a more experienced view.
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  29. #29
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    Cool temps and lots of precip the last two weeks. Don't have any totals, but I know that a few more feet of snow have fallen at ~10k on the Mesa, just a few miles east of the Uncompahgre. The Unc *usually* gets less snow than the Mesa, so who knows what's really up there?

    I also read the final season grooming report from the GMNC, and they reported a solid 5.5 feet of snow on the level at ~10k. That was Sunday.

    Just thought y'all would want to know...

    MC

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Cool temps and lots of precip the last two weeks. Don't have any totals, but I know that a few more feet of snow have fallen at ~10k on the Mesa, just a few miles east of the Uncompahgre. The Unc *usually* gets less snow than the Mesa, so who knows what's really up there?

    I also read the final season grooming report from the GMNC, and they reported a solid 5.5 feet of snow on the level at ~10k. That was Sunday.

    Just thought y'all would want to know...

    MC
    Thanks for the heads up Mike. There's actually a SNOTEL site on the Unc at Columbine pass. From the Western Regional Climate Center you can get daily reports going back several years and of course current conditions as well. Data for high/low temps, accum precip, snow water equiv, and normals.

    Columbine pass is just off the Tab, and at 600' lower than the highest part of the Tab isn't going to be exact, but ballparkish. Last I looked snowpack was <40% of normal at Columbine. But, springtime being volatile as always, ya just never know. My eye is on it
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    Linking the Paradox and Tab

    OK, I've read through the old threads and read the reports and there is still nuthin' but confusion. Maybe I have 2 questions:

    1. What's the official way to connect the tab & para?

    2. How did riders actually do it last year?

    The second question is more a result of Scott's GLR '06 write up. It isn't really clear, but sounds like he didn't find a trail off of transfer road and backtracked? Scott, er, Krein?

    The attached pic shows what I think is meant to be the course. The paradox is in red (technically the section on Divide road is neither the para or tab), the tab is in blue.

    Or is it just left up to the rider to figure out how to get on the Tab? If that's the case, I just gave it all away

    As a side note, I've been unable to get the official COPMOBA maps. I'm assuming they are useful since they designed the trail and all...I contacted them in Feb. 3 weeks later they told me to sign up as a member and request the free map pack. So I did, that was early March and not free. Still no maps. Those maps are as rare as paradox trail makers I'll be in GJ this weekend, are they available in bike shops?

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  32. #32
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    1. What's the official way to connect the tab & para?

    2. How did riders actually do it last year?

    The second question is more a result of Scott's GLR '06 write up. It isn't really clear, but sounds like he didn't find a trail off of transfer road and backtracked? Scott, er, Krein?
    Hey Dave,

    1 - There is no official way to connect them. I asked Paul Koski and his reply was .

    2 - Your map shows what I did, and what Mike and Gary established as the precedent for future years. It's a pretty bass-ackwards way to connect them, but then they didn't ask me.

    Mike was convinced there was Tab singletrack off Transfer road, but the Tab at that point simply is that powerline road. That's why I was confused (and frustrated, thinking I had ridden a couple extra miles) out there.

    So you ride within ~10 feet of the Tab trail (at your point 087), only to make a strange loop that nets you no singletrack. Part of me was wondering if Mike was sending me on a wild goose chase, but I confirmed with Gary that that is how they established it.

    As for the maps, I was able to find them at a shop in GJ. Unfortunately I don't recall the name of the shop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    1. What's the official way to connect the tab & para?

    2. How did riders actually do it last year?
    Answer is the same, and you have it exactly right on your map. There was some confusion about this last year, and the official answer was to go right on Divide Road, left on Transfer Road, and pick up the trail under the massive powerlines as you have drawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    The second question is more a result of Scott's GLR '06 write up. It isn't really clear, but sounds like he didn't find a trail off of transfer road and backtracked? Scott, er, Krein?
    I think we all had the same experience - no trouble finding the trail, but disheartening to ride the short loop right back towards the Divide Road whence we came.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    As a side note, I've been unable to get the official COPMOBA maps. I'm assuming they are useful since they designed the trail and all...I contacted them in Feb. 3 weeks later they told me to sign up as a member and request the free map pack. So I did, that was early March and not free. Still no maps. Those maps are as rare as paradox trail makers I'll be in GJ this weekend, are they available in bike shops?
    I picked mine up at REI in GJ last year. I'm feeling lucky to own the rare species of COPMOBA maps and to have seen all those endangered Paradox Trail markers too!

    I found the written description in the pamphlets to be far more helpful than the map sketches. Judging by the amount of preriding and GPS'ing you've done, you may find the pamphlets worthless. If the COPMOBA maps are that hard to come by, you're probably not the only one having this problem, and I'd be willing to make some electronic copies and post 'em here if that is kosher with other racers. Certainly, one of the biggest aspects of this whole race is the route sleuthing...

    Have you decided to hit it KTR weekend, or are you gonna wait? Been up on the Uncompahgre plateau recently? I'm going to start on June 1 with the others, but I am planning on riding the new Paradox reroute - no Bedrock town - so it will really be an individual TT effort for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Hey Dave,

    1 - There is no official way to connect them. I asked Paul Koski and his reply was .

    2 - Your map shows what I did, and what Mike and Gary established as the precedent for future years. It's a pretty bass-ackwards way to connect them, but then they didn't ask me.

    Mike was convinced there was Tab singletrack off Transfer road, but the Tab at that point simply is that powerline road. That's why I was confused (and frustrated, thinking I had ridden a couple extra miles) out there.

    So you ride within ~10 feet of the Tab trail (at your point 087), only to make a strange loop that nets you no singletrack. Part of me was wondering if Mike was sending me on a wild goose chase, but I confirmed with Gary that that is how they established it.

    As for the maps, I was able to find them at a shop in GJ. Unfortunately I don't recall the name of the shop.
    Thanks Scott. That is a huge help.

    It sure is a bass-ackwards connect but that's OK by me just so long as I know it's the correct route.

    There's some serious work in the legs at this point - I can imagine the demons you were fighting thinking you were getting sent on a goose chase. That's exactly why I asked the question, cause left to my own devices I know which way I'd go, and it ain't east!
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    Hey GLR'ers. With the race starting at 6 PM, what time do you anticipate reaching the Paradox intersection?

    I was thinking of prowling around the route some with a camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    I found the written description in the pamphlets to be far more helpful than the map sketches. Judging by the amount of preriding and GPS'ing you've done, you may find the pamphlets worthless. If the COPMOBA maps are that hard to come by, you're probably not the only one having this problem, and I'd be willing to make some electronic copies and post 'em here if that is kosher with other racers. Certainly, one of the biggest aspects of this whole race is the route sleuthing...

    Have you decided to hit it KTR weekend, or are you gonna wait? Been up on the Uncompahgre plateau recently? I'm going to start on June 1 with the others, but I am planning on riding the new Paradox reroute - no Bedrock town - so it will really be an individual TT effort for me.
    The written descriptions are available online at the BLM. I found them for both the para and the tab and used them as the basis for my mapping. That, along with 7.5' TOPO! maps, proved 100% on the mark for a paradox scouting mission - at least to Pinto mesa. Most of the Tab shows up in roads & trails on the maps too, there are just 2 short sections not shown at the beginning and the end of the Tab.

    As for when to do it - I'll scout the unknown sections this weekend and make the call. It'll likely be the 19th or the 26th. If the 26th, I'll do KTR as a warm up.

    Doing the reroute eh? Chris was saying you wanted to do that. So, no restocking options for you then. So you'll be hauling ~ 30k calories then? That's roughly 20 lbs food weight, unless you drink olive oil

    I haven't decided yet...but may time it such that I miss the store at bedrock and will carry a similar amount.

    Right now I'm trying not to get too lean - got a touch of food poisoning last week after a 250 mile weekend and holy crap did I lose some serious weight. Seeing how much weight drops after a ton of miles & exposure is a bit scary. Must eat more donuts...
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    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Hey GLR'ers. With the race starting at 6 PM, what time do you anticipate reaching the Paradox intersection?

    I was thinking of prowling around the route some with a camera.
    The clock will probably start ~7:45pm @ Kokopelli's TH. Last year, I didn't
    get to the Paradox intersection until almost 8pm!! Scott and Jefe were
    easily a few hours ahead of me at that point. This year, I'm hoping to make
    it there much, much earlier....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    The clock will probably start ~7:45pm @ Kokopelli's TH. Last year, I didn't
    get to the Paradox intersection until almost 8pm!! Scott and Jefe were
    easily a few hours ahead of me at that point. This year, I'm hoping to make
    it there much, much earlier....
    OK, so roughly between Saturday afternoon and into the evening?
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    Getting close

    The route is coming together in my mind between the maps, BLM descriptions and the preriding. Maybe coming together is the wrong word. It's more like haunting. I'm really excited though.

    30k calories. Dave that's a scary number...
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    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Hey GLR'ers. With the race starting at 6 PM, what time do you anticipate reaching the Paradox intersection?

    I was thinking of prowling around the route some with a camera.
    It took me about 13 hours under ideal, daylight conditions last weekend. That was with multi-day gear in tow but not as much food weight as the GL will require. Since it starts in the evening, some riders may choose to bivy a bit along the way before then...it could be warmer...looser...shandier...slower on June 1. But, if you were at Gateway road at t+13 hours and descended Beaver Mesa with your cameras, you'd find someone suffering.

    There are some awesome locations, relatively close to easily drivable spots on the paradox above Nucla. Now there will be suffering there! Then there's the tab...
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Doing the reroute eh? Chris was saying you wanted to do that. So, no restocking options for you then. So you'll be hauling ~ 30k calories then? That's roughly 20 lbs food weight, unless you drink olive oil
    Yep, it's a lot of food. I dunno how many calories I carried last year, but I started
    with ~15 lbs of dense, high-calorie food and I finished in 4 days with 2 lbs of food left.
    In Bedrock, I bought 2 Mtn. Dews, an ice cream sandwich and a bag of chips,
    so add another pound there. I never felt hungry, and I ate a lot! I
    obviously wasn't pushing a pace that required such an enormous amount of
    calories though.

    Hmmm, filling my water bottles with Olive Oil... I probably wouldn't even make it to Dewey Bridge!

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Must eat more donuts...
    Mmmmm, Donuts!

    Bummer to hear about the food poisoning, but glad you're back into the swing of things!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    It took me about 13 hours under ideal, daylight conditions last weekend. That was with multi-day gear in tow but not as much food weight as the GL will require.
    Holy friggin' smokes!!! Dave is gonna crush this thing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Holy friggin' smokes!!! Dave is gonna crush this thing!
    Yep.

    But... he's not racing remember...

    Jefe and I were at Fisher Creek in about 18 hours from the start. It took us another hour or two to cover the next 0.1 miles to the start of the Paradox trail.

    Can't imagine why...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Yep.

    But... he's not racing remember...

    Jefe and I were at Fisher Creek in about 18 hours from the start. It took us another hour or two to cover the next 0.1 miles to the start of the Paradox trail.

    Can't imagine why...
    C'mon now, a solo TT doesn't mean I'm not racing ya know. I'll be racing myself for sure.

    18 hours sounds fast for the conditions you guys had. Really fast.

    Stefan, I wouldn't go placing any bets. I have plenty of my own demons to outrun in this one. I've been pampered for all my long events up till now. This is SO uncharted territory. I just hope to finish so I don't have to contemplate this thing again
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    C'mon now, a solo TT doesn't mean I'm not racing ya know.
    Earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'd be riding to finish, test some equipment (lights, of course ), get the feel for this sort of event - but not really racing.
    Make up your mind, Dave. You racing or not?

    I'll be racing myself for sure.
    Of course. I definitely like the solo TT approach. It offers the most pure experience, in many ways. My 'not racing' comment has nothing to do with the TT aspect, only what you wrote before!

    18 hours sounds fast for the conditions you guys had. Really fast.
    Didn't feel very fast...
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    Betcha can't eat just one!

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    C'mon now, a solo TT doesn't mean I'm not racing ya know. I'll be racing myself for sure.
    Ditto that. I know I sure want to beat *my* time from last year! I know I can do it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I just hope to finish so I don't have to contemplate this thing again
    Ha! LOL! For real! I mean, I'm really laughing out loud! Yep, I was glad I finished last year too so I didn't have to contemplate this thing again... I hate all this multi-day BS. You'll never want to do another multiday, solo, self-supported "race" again after the GLR. Sorta like doin' crack - once really is enough...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Ha! LOL! For real! I mean, I'm really laughing out loud! Yep, I was glad I finished last year too so I didn't have to contemplate this thing again... I hate all this multi-day BS. You'll never want to do another multiday, solo, self-supported "race" again after the GLR. Sorta like doin' crack - once really is enough...
    Did someone say crack?!? Stefan, it's my turn laughing out loud. This multi-day stuff is for the birds, so many details, can't I just ride my bike? And I thought road racing was strategic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Make up your mind, Dave. You racing or not?
    Oh I'm so busted! It has become obvious to me along the route that you can't just totally piddle along and finish this thing - timing is important in several areas for different reasons. Honestly, I don't know what "racing" exactly means in this event. I'll not be wasting time. I will be riding to finish. I expect it will be sorta like your ride last year. Ride to finish, if there's anything left in the home stretch turn on the afterburners.

    Honestly, it's all about finishing and that's part of the lure of the solo TT. Getting caught up in race tactics and emotions might obscure the #1 goal - to finish. Plus I'm a curmudgeon at heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Didn't feel very fast...
    Borderline heat stroke never does!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Honestly, I don't know what "racing" exactly means in this event. I'll not be wasting time. I will be riding to finish.
    Well put.

    Of course, everybody's "not wasting time" pace varies dramatically. Hopefully, I'll only be stopping to smell the flowers if my front wheel catches a rock and I land in 'em...

    BTW, I'm gonna take your advice from last year and snap far fewer pictures so I can finish in under 4 days.
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    Finish for me

    I want to finish but Dave's right about a certain pace needed. The more time you move slowly in the heat the more water you need.

    I have no pace goal or no illusions of time to make any particular section. Just gotta keep up the water intake, fuel the body, turn over the pedals and enjoy the scenery as it passes by.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Oh I'm so busted! It has become obvious to me along the route that you can't just totally piddle along and finish this thing - timing is important in several areas for different reasons. Honestly, I don't know what "racing" exactly means in this event. I'll not be wasting time. I will be riding to finish. I expect it will be sorta like your ride last year. Ride to finish, if there's anything left in the home stretch turn on the afterburners
    I hear ya. I have no good definition for what "racing" means in these events. Looking back I would now say that I was racing throughout the GLR last year. I focused on making progress, and not wasting time. It's just a different feeling because I wasn't going as fast as I could for most of the race.

    But the route was so unknown and so intimidating that I really couldn't think about pushing it until I was close to the finish. Even without the unknown factor, there's no way I could have maintained my "finishing" pace throughout the whole thing. Just considering that is laughable.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes for you.

    And, Stefan, going for the GLR + the real Paradox route is a bold move. From what I've heard / seen, it's going to be an adventure and a half. I really can't wait to see how that goes for you.
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    COPMOAB Maps

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    As a side note, I've been unable to get the official COPMOBA maps. I'm assuming they are useful since they designed the trail and all...I contacted them in Feb. 3 weeks later they told me to sign up as a member and request the free map pack. So I did, that was early March and not free. Still no maps. Those maps are as rare as paradox trail makers I'll be in GJ this weekend, are they available in bike shops?
    The GJ BLM office had lots of COPMOAB Tabeguache maps last week. Also picked up the Nucla, Delta and Moab BLM Surface Management Maps.

    I called all the bike shops that had ads in the Tabeguache map and REI, all Paradox maps were gone at that time.

    I then called Pyramid Printing (they too have an ad in the Tabeguache map) and they graciously hooked me up with a couple of the Paradox maps. (not an official map source and may not be open but if you ask nice….)
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    face it Dave';s gonna crush it

    Hello everyone fell behind on this, sounds like DH is taking this to another level, GPSing the whole thing, pre-riding and the meticulous effort he';s putting into his planning. I must say I am still trembling at the thought of the GLR, i still get goosebumps thinking about the heat and the sun and the lack of coolness. Looking at the rsults he';s had a new record is very likely, i know you say you just want to survive and finish but it sounds like that is an attempt at being humble. I wish you the best of luck out there. My advice to all is it is gonna be real hard to use bedrock as a refuel stop without taking about four days to do the loop or killing yourself getting there before the store closes. I carried all my food for the whole loop, yes all of it, it sucked, but i had it and could simply go and not have to get anywhere at a certain time. I can';t wait ot see the result of this, Good luck, hope to see ya all at KTR jefe
    PS stefan you are crazy to ride the real paradox trail, i rode most of the reroute that the GLR doesn';t follow and it is awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    PS stefan you are crazy to ride the real paradox trail, i rode most of the reroute that the GLR doesn';t follow and it is awful.
    OK, Jefe and Scott. Now you guys are scaring me. I'm gonna head out to ride the rerouted section (with my wife!) over Memorial Day Weekend - maybe that's a bad idea since then I'll know how bad it really is?! Plus, if Jefe thinks it's awful, I know my wife will absolutely hate it...

    It's gonna be quite a competitive field this year with Dave, Chris (pivvay), Scott and who knows who else will show. I'm planning on doing the KTR too, so I'll see some of ya out there.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    OK, Jefe and Scott. Now you guys are scaring me. I'm gonna head out to ride the rerouted section (with my wife!) over Memorial Day Weekend - maybe that's a bad idea since then I'll know how bad it really is?! Plus, if Jefe thinks it's awful, I know my wife will absolutely hate it...
    My two cents -- don't pre-ride it.

    Easy for me to say since I won't be the one riding right by the Carpenter Ridge turn-off, with smooth pavement (and a possibly open store) waiting below.

    I haven't seen the new Paradox on the ground, but I mapped it out and talked to Paul Koski about it. I don't think it's much worse than the nasty part of the current Paradox (after Tab creek). But you're trading smooth pavement and gravel roads for that stuff.

    Paul is leading a multi-day tour on the entire Paradox, including the new stuff, so how bad can it be? Some of it looks very interesting on the maps, like Red Canyon / Radium Trail.

    A major part of the draw of the GLR last year, for me, was riding into the unknown and trying to make optimal decisions without knowing what was coming ahead. Of course, I knew that the GLR route could be/has been done, whereas we don't really know of anyone successfully riding the new Paradox, except maybe Paul Koski. Big difference there.

    Either way, it's going to make a very difficult loop even harder. It'll tune ya up for the CTR, without a doubt.
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    Of course without preriding it in the daylight it might be a royal PITA to find your way at night with or without GPS. I'm guessing Stefan may be on that section in the dark?
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    Yep, I'm still not a GPS owner, so the main reason to preride is to avoid getting lost during the race. This is especially important since I don't plan to carry quite as much food as last year. If I had GPS'd the route and felt confident in my ability to not waste a lot of time lost, I don't think I'd bother preriding it. Especially because just about any part of the second half of this race may end up being at night!

    Yeah, ya, I know. Getting lost is one of the "best" realities of this kind of race but I sure would like to avoid too much of it if I can.
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    solo TT

    So it's no secret I've been planning a solo TT of the GL. I've been waiting for the right time and it is now. I'll be starting tomorrow evening.

    I'll phone in to MC from Bedrock, maybe he'll post an update here I know I was hanging on his every word last year when he was posting updates so I wouldn't want to cheat anyone out of that fun.

    OK, back to stockpiling sleep and calories...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Of course without preriding it in the daylight it might be a royal PITA to find your way at night with or without GPS. I'm guessing Stefan may be on that section in the dark?
    Getting lost is always a good excuse to catch some Z's, though...

    Happened before on the GLR... probably will happen again.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    So it's no secret I've been planning a solo TT of the GL. I've been waiting for the right time and it is now. I'll be starting tomorrow evening.
    Awesome. Best of luck, Dave.

    You like the looks of mid 80's over high 90's, huh? To each his own I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'll phone in to MC from Bedrock, maybe he'll post an update here I know I was hanging on his every word last year when he was posting updates so I wouldn't want to cheat anyone out of that fun.
    Great, looking forward to it. Just don't listen to anything MC says. He's been known to throw a curveball or three.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    OK, back to stockpiling sleep and calories...
    You're going to sleep AND eat before a race like this!? Crazy talk...

    Can't wait to hear how it plays out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    So it's no secret I've been planning a solo TT of the GL. I've been waiting for the right time and it is now. I'll be starting tomorrow evening.

    I'll phone in to MC from Bedrock, maybe he'll post an update here I know I was hanging on his every word last year when he was posting updates so I wouldn't want to cheat anyone out of that fun.

    OK, back to stockpiling sleep and calories...
    Good luck DH! See ya soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    My two cents -- don't pre-ride it.

    Easy for me to say since I won't be the one riding right by the Carpenter Ridge turn-off, with smooth pavement (and a possibly open store) waiting below.
    Geeez, rub it in why dontcha!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    I haven't seen the new Paradox on the ground, but I mapped it out and talked to Paul Koski about it. I don't think it's much worse than the nasty part of the current Paradox (after Tab creek). But you're trading smooth pavement and gravel roads for that stuff.
    Hell yeah! Anything to avoid the freaking pavement! I hate that stuff. Once you get a taste of the smoothness after riding bumpy, torn-up jeep roads, it makes it so hard to go back...
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Paul is leading a multi-day tour on the entire Paradox, including the new stuff, so how bad can it be? Some of it looks very interesting on the maps, like Red Canyon / Radium Trail.
    Exactly! It can't be that bad compared to the rest, can it? On the plus side, the reroute spends more time up higher, so maybe it'll be cooler up there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    A major part of the draw of the GLR last year, for me, was riding into the unknown and trying to make optimal decisions without knowing what was coming ahead. Of course, I knew that the GLR route could be/has been done, whereas we don't really know of anyone successfully riding the new Paradox, except maybe Paul Koski. Big difference there.
    I think we both know that it can be done. Yes it's gonna be a bit harder in the terrain sense of this race, but I think the real difficulty of the GLR will be continuing to push through the sleep deprivation - like you did last year. That was definitely admirable, and part of what inspired me to experiment with a lot less sleep on the CT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Either way, it's going to make a very difficult loop even harder. It'll tune ya up for the CTR, without a doubt.
    Sure hope so!
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    So it's no secret I've been planning a solo TT of the GL. I've been waiting for the right time and it is now. I'll be starting tomorrow evening.

    I'll phone in to MC from Bedrock, maybe he'll post an update here I know I was hanging on his every word last year when he was posting updates so I wouldn't want to cheat anyone out of that fun.

    OK, back to stockpiling sleep and calories...

    Dave,

    Exciting stuff. I'll certainly be checking here frequently for any updates. Good luck! You'll be missed in Loma on Friday night but considering the 'alibi', we'll let it slide. Looks like good weather for you too.

    FW

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I'll be starting tomorrow evening.
    Crush it, Dave! And good luck, too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    OK, back to stockpiling sleep and calories...
    Wait, the A Team will be split apart this weekend - Lynda W on KTR and Dave H on GLR!

    Best of luck to you Dave. Have fun and be safe. Looking forward to any updates and the final story.

    We'll miss you in Loma but will be thinking of you....maybe

    Ed E

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    Fred,
    How did the KTR treat you? Last time I saw you, you had your feet up down by the creek, and were having a way better day then me! Marco told me you had ten people just hanging out having a great time.

    After reading this posting, I guess that I will see you in a couple of weeks?

    KG

  67. #67
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    Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by kgillest
    Fred,
    How did the KTR treat you? Last time I saw you, you had your feet up down by the creek, and were having a way better day then me! Marco told me you had ten people just hanging out having a great time.

    After reading this posting, I guess that I will see you in a couple of weeks?

    KG

    I'm not sure what part of me napping with my head on a rock made it look like I was having a good day! It was fun meeting a bunch of folks who post here, and hanging out with friends from 'rides' and races. Not a typical enduro ride by any means.

    Are you doing the Grand Loop. That would be great. Eric, Josh, or others? One thing now looming in my mind is food. It sounds like Dave H was carrying quite a load of calories during his trip. I'd be interested to know what other people are thinking about. I sure was craving non-traditional race foods yesterday afternoon.

    FW

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    Fred,
    I thought you were going to have pizza's delivered with the party you had going!

    Eric and I are going to attend in a few weeks. We wore extremely heavy packs for the KTR trying to mimic what we were going to be carrying on June 1. Food??? No matter what I bring it never seems to be right? I always crave what I do not have.

    AZT 300, I brought 36 bars of many brands. I bought 2 chocolate milks, 3 sandwiches, 3 ice cream bars, 3 cokes, 24 tylenol. My secret to 2nd place!

    KG

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    snow contingency plans?

    Looks like I'll be joining the race afterall. Being denied by snowbound trails leaves me hungry. Still haven't seen the Tab, and damn I was looking forward to that.

    Here's a pic of the ground I covered Sat morning:


    From where the Tab leaves the powerlines, I covered exactly one mile. Laughable considering how much time I mucked around in there...as you can see the final section is on north facing slopes. There was not one bit of exposed dirt in this area - shallowest was prolly 2 feet, 5-8 feet in deeper sections between trees.

    Given that it's snowing up there as I write this...the obvious concern is what happens if we get to that point and find similar conditions? Trudging through some snowbanks is one thing (and novel considering where we came from), but I can tell you it was an impossible task a few days ago to know where the trail was.

    Would we...

    Bypass that singletrack section, pick up the Tab via Divide road/Bull Canyon to Roubideau? (this looked viable but wet) Something else?

    I guess it would be a no-brainer for Stefan since he's already doing extra. Whatever it takes to get to the Tab...

    Or, can any alumni discuss how conditions have been early June in bigger snowpack years? That's the part I find baffling. Snowpack is low this spring yet there's a lot of snow in this one spot. The bermuda GL triangle of white.

    Maybe it'll be a non-issue by the time we get there, but man if I hit the same impasse I might lose my gourd
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    Bedrock store

    FYI, when I was in Bedrock in April the store hours were posted as closing at 5pm. I don't recall what time it opened. This was changed from a previous closing time of 6pm. Obvious implications here.

    I didn't look at the posted store hours there the other day, but it's worth a call to find out. Thought y'all would like to know, that'd be a crappy surprise if it mucked up your game plan.
    Dave

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    Hours were 9-5 when we were there last time Dave.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Given that it's snowing up there as I write this...the obvious concern is what happens if we get to that point and find similar conditions?
    You take this for the desert sections, right?


    So why not these for the alpine?



    Bypass that singletrack section, pick up the Tab via Divide road/Bull Canyon to Roubideau? (this looked viable but wet) Something else?
    Surely you jest.

    The route is the route. Anything else is not.

    can any alumni discuss how conditions have been early June in bigger snowpack years?
    I've only been there twice, but both times there was a decent amount of snow on that section. I haven't seen it quite as deep as you describe, but in '03 I did a fair bit of postholing through 3-5' drifts. They lasted less than ~three miles and you could sometimes pick your way around/over/through/between them. If you lost sight of the trail tread you could usually make out the trail corridor. There was NO riding being done here, but progress was steady. Slow, but steady.

    MC

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    Sunscreen? What's that? Didn't you see that farmers tan line? I did think about snowshoes tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Surely you jest.

    The route is the route. Anything else is not.
    I figured you'd say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee

    I've only been there twice, but both times there was a decent amount of snow on that section. I haven't seen it quite as deep as you describe, but in '03 I did a fair bit of postholing through 3-5' drifts. They lasted less than ~three miles and you could sometimes pick your way around/over/through/between them. If you lost sight of the trail tread you could usually make out the trail corridor. There was NO riding being done here, but progress was steady. Slow, but steady.

    MC
    That would be just fine - heavenly in fact. It just wasn't possible last weekend though. Can't believe I'm saying this but lets hope for some blistering temps the next 10 days and we'll find out when we get there. I do like surprises.

    Snowshoes and a front skid are going on the optional equipment list

    Anyone wanna share the GPS track for this little snowbound section??? Scott? Bueler? Anyone?
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    FYI, when I was in Bedrock in April the store hours were posted as closing at 5pm. I don't recall what time it opened. This was changed from a previous closing time of 6pm. Obvious implications here.

    I didn't look at the posted store hours there the other day, but it's worth a call to find out. Thought y'all would like to know, that'd be a crappy surprise if it mucked up your game plan.
    I drove from Moab to Bedrock per the Paradox trail Sunday and stopped to check out the store. Asked the hours, was told it is officially 9-6, seven days a week but…....

    (Store is for sale by the way)
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Anyone wanna share the GPS track for this little snowbound section??? Scott? Bueler? Anyone?
    Hahahaha haa!! I thought you said you liked surprises!? A GPS track is almost like pre-riding, and, wait a minute... Ummm, don't YOU already have a GPS track based on USGS Topos for this section already? My GPS track consists of notes in my head.

    Now the true reason I want to do the reroute surfaces - everyone is guaranteed to be so far ahead of me that I'll have plenty of "GPS" tracks to follow! Well, that's not the real reason, but it is a good bonus.

    Maybe I'll bring my BC skiing shovel instead of a bivy sack and just plan on sleeping in a snow cave one night. This route truly is amazing. You can potentially be postholing through snow, and baking in 100 degree temps all within the same day. Where else can you find such a variety of ways to suffer?
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    Bring snowshoes

    Cold, hard rain fell for the past two days here in Durango. Everything above 8,000' is a beautiful, sparkling white. The forecast is improving, but man it's gonna be tight. I think we'll get through though. Slowly. When you hit the bottom of that little drainage where no dirt is to be seen just keep heading upstream

    Another question for the old-timers: can you provide a history lesson? It looks like there are only finishes listed for '01, '03, '06. We all know what happened in '02...but did the event take place on other years, and if so, what happened?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgillest
    Fred,
    Food??? No matter what I bring it never seems to be right? I always crave what I do not have.

    AZT 300, I brought 36 bars of many brands. I bought 2 chocolate milks, 3 sandwiches, 3 ice cream bars, 3 cokes, 24 tylenol. My secret to 2nd place!

    KG
    Mojo bars, snickers, and dried fruit were my favorite solids last weekend. Was really wanting hamburgers though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Mojo bars, snickers, and dried fruit were my favorite solids last weekend. Was really wanting hamburgers though.
    Mmmmmm, sniiiickers... I love 'em, but how do ya keep 'em from melting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Mmmmmm, sniiiickers... I love 'em, but how do ya keep 'em from melting?
    You don't - just get the "fun size" little bars, pop 'em in your mouth just like a gel. Yum.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Mmmmmm, sniiiickers... I love 'em, but how do ya keep 'em from melting?
    Burried in my pack next to the water they seem to stay okay.
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  81. #81
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    Snacks and Nucla

    Clif Bars, gu, and blocks really got old for me last weekend. Some pizza would have been nice. Maybe fries. Anyone aware of any good dehydrated junk/comfort food?

    A more serious question for Scott M, Mike C, or anyone who may have ridden off course to Nucla. Did you leave course at Third Park, or Pinto Mesa? Somewhere else? I'm assuming if one chooses to go to Nucla, they'd need to rejoin at the same place they left.

    My COPMOBA Paradox Trail map/brochure describes an alternate route 'through' Nucla. It is presented there as an 18.4mi 'option', leaving the trail just past Tabeguache creek and rejoining on Pinto Mesa. From the description, it sounds like you'd gain a few miles, but would have easier roads. But again, I've been assuming we need to leave and return to the Paradox Trail at the same place, not that the alternate route is a valid 'option' for the GLR.

    Any experience willing to be shared would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    FW

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    Clif Bars, gu, and blocks really got old for me last weekend. Some pizza would have been nice. Maybe fries. Anyone aware of any good dehydrated junk/comfort food?

    A more serious question for Scott M, Mike C, or anyone who may have ridden off course to Nucla. Did you leave course at Third Park, or Pinto Mesa? Somewhere else? I'm assuming if one chooses to go to Nucla, they'd need to rejoin at the same place they left.

    My COPMOBA Paradox Trail map/brochure describes an alternate route 'through' Nucla. It is presented there as an 18.4mi 'option', leaving the trail just past Tabeguache creek and rejoining on Pinto Mesa. From the description, it sounds like you'd gain a few miles, but would have easier roads. But again, I've been assuming we need to leave and return to the Paradox Trail at the same place, not that the alternate route is a valid 'option' for the GLR.

    Any experience willing to be shared would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    FW
    Choc covered esspresso beans, almond m&m's, jerky, little debbies, tang..... ummm thats all no stove stuff..... If you can heat water a nice first nights treat is chili hormel with the peel off lid so you don't have bring a can opener..... you can even cook it in the can =)

    Chicken or tuna in a can can also be a great morale booster..... as can smoked salmon

    Just my .02 from a rider who cant stand most of that goo, hammer, power bar crap =)
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    A more serious question for Scott M, Mike C, or anyone who may have ridden off course to Nucla. Did you leave course at Third Park, or Pinto Mesa? Somewhere else? I'm assuming if one chooses to go to Nucla, they'd need to rejoin at the same place they left.
    FW
    When we pre-rode the paradox earlier in the year we rode from Pinto mesa to Nucla. It was easy, well maintained dirt and pavement, alll downhill, maybe 20-30 minutes? Of course you do have to return to the trail at the same spot, which means you'd have a bit of climbing to get back to that spot.

    It's a tricky matter. Plan on a restock or carry all from go? Kill yourself to make bedrock, or take a 2 hour penalty for Nucla? So much thinkin' it almost hurts.
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    Dang. Taking a look at some decent maps it looks like the money way to Nucla is via Coal Canyon. Less than 5 miles one-way and only about 300' of elevation change. That's probably how Scott did it but we'll never know
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    Food

    I'm bringing real food. There is gatorade, blocks etc but also Snickers, jerkey, poptarts etc. Stuff I know I like over a couple days. I'm also bringing several dehydrated meals that I made myself. I'm partial to couscous since it works real easy with my boil only water stove and some meat too. I can't got too much sugar only since eventually that gets old and you need some salty and just other texture foods.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Dang. Taking a look at some decent maps it looks like the money way to Nucla is via Coal Canyon. Less than 5 miles one-way and only about 300' of elevation change. That's probably how Scott did it but we'll never know
    Dave,

    I was hoping to find out how Scott did it, I figure he had already GPS'd all options ahead of time and knew 'the' way. I couldn't decipher it through his ride report. It will be exciting to find it out on my own if need be. I may have just figured it out via collective thought though, thanks! I'm not planning anything specific here, but I'm not ruling anything out either.

    Food wise, I'm more worried about having appetizing stuff after 24hrs. There sure would be an array of appetizing 'snacks' at a store. Not to mention ice cold options! Thanks Dave, Dave, Chris, Kevin, for sharing treat choices. I hope to have that special secret fuel in my pack, but it never seems as appetizing once I'm riding!

    FW

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    No cooking required.

    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

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    Cooking

    FWIW I can boil water, have a spoon, windscreen and a little stuffsack to carry it all for under 2oz total weight. No reason to go without hot meals other than personal choice plus then I can take a "French adventure racers break," ie Tea break, if I need a pick me up.

    0.25oz to 0.5oz of fuel per boil.

    Now if I could only keep my bike in one piece...sigh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    FWIW I can boil water, have a spoon, windscreen and a little stuffsack to carry it all for under 2oz total weight. No reason to go without hot meals other than personal choice plus then I can take a "French adventure racers break," ie Tea break, if I need a pick me up.

    0.25oz to 0.5oz of fuel per boil.

    Now if I could only keep my bike in one piece...sigh.
    Nice! That's impressive!

    What's wrong with your bike?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Nice! That's impressive!

    What's wrong with your bike?
    I've seen Chris' weight-weeniness in action. It rivals Armstrong's attention to detail. Unless somebody shows up thinking they can finish in a day ( ) he'll be the lightest off the start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    I've seen Chris' weight-weeniness in action. It rivals Armstrong's attention to detail. Unless somebody shows up thinking they can finish in a day ( ) he'll be the lightest off the start.
    Haha thanks Dave. Lots of food is heavy though. Really my "extra" gear weight compared to what I'd take on any long ride is almost insignificant compared to the food and water loads. I am using tougher tires than normal, carrying a bit more stuff and more spares but I don't have a rack and I've found that makes me really evaluate whether I need stuff.

    For the bike drama check the blog. Don't want to clog this thread up with it. It will get worked out somehow anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    A more serious question for Scott M, Mike C, or anyone who may have ridden off course to Nucla. Did you leave course at Third Park, or Pinto Mesa? Somewhere else? I'm assuming if one chooses to go to Nucla, they'd need to rejoin at the same place they left.
    I think I'm the only one to ever go to Nucla during the race.

    Not surprisingly, I'm not going to say which way I went, but I will say this: if I were to detour to Nucla again, I wouldn't go the way I went in '06.

    I burned some serious time, but the real food and cold water went a long way to getting me through the last day of the race.

    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    But again, I've been assuming we need to leave and return to the Paradox Trail at the same place, not that the alternate route is a valid 'option' for the GLR.
    Right, if you leave the main GLR route for any reason, you need to rejoin it at exactly the same spot you left it.

    The Tab only has another week to melt out, and I don't see a whole lotta meltin' going on yet. It's going to be interesting...
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein

    I burned some serious time, but the real food and cold water went a long way to getting me through the last day of the race.



    The Tab only has another week to melt out, and I don't see a whole lotta meltin' going on yet. It's going to be interesting...

    Interesting... I checked out a few options today. From Third Park, or Pinto Mesa would be approx 8, or 9 mi one way respectively. A lot more climbing back up to Pinto Mesa though. There are a few other options (noted by Dave H), but today it looked like signed, private property might exclude at least one of those. Hard to say if a detour would be a good idea for me, but the Nucla store certainly has an attractive amount of options. Not as much good stuff for me at Bedrock (assuming I would even be there when it's open)

    I didn't try to ride any of the first part of the Tabeguache, but there was a fair bit of snow in the trees along the Divide rd. in that area.

    To keep my route questions going.. I understand the Paradox Trail, as used for this, is climbing up U-18 rd right off hwy 141 - all the way to Z-26. This is the way it is described in the old brochure, but they're aren't any markers in the area of the highway that I've seen. Since the newer Paradox route appears to connect in this area, I wanted to be clear. Also, it seems established that to join Paradox to Tabeguache, one rides off the Hauser rd., down the Divide rd. to the Transfer rd., then onto the Tabeguache under the powerlines. At least that's the way I've understood previous discussions. Wouldn't want to miss any turns by mistake.

    FW

  94. #94
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    Hi everyone,
    lurking shields down. Greetings from Washington state. The dry side. Where it was above 80 degrees today. I've been facinated with these events for the last couple of years. Was ready to come down last year for either the KTR or GLR but some family medical problems precluded that.
    I have the time off and will be driving down Thursday. Just a quick question about parking cars. Is the trailhead where we end up an ok place to leave a vehicle?
    Really looking foward to riding in your wilderness training facility or WTF for short.

    See you Friday,

    Yet another Dave

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkirk
    Hi everyone,
    lurking shields down. Greetings from Washington state. The dry side. Where it was above 80 degrees today. I've been facinated with these events for the last couple of years. Was ready to come down last year for either the KTR or GLR but some family medical problems precluded that.
    I have the time off and will be driving down Thursday. Just a quick question about parking cars. Is the trailhead where we end up an ok place to leave a vehicle?
    Really looking foward to riding in your wilderness training facility or WTF for short.

    See you Friday,

    Yet another Dave
    I'm not sure of the legalities, but I left my vehicle at the Tab. TH last year. I didn't see any signs prohibiting it, and it was too late to move it by the time I thought of it. This year, I plan on showing up with enough time to look for signage, and park somewhere else if needed, although I don't anticipate it being a problem.

    When mikesee says "6pm sharp", he means it!
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    I didn't try to ride any of the first part of the Tabeguache, but there was a fair bit of snow in the trees along the Divide rd. in that area.
    The Roubideau section is all clear! Aside from a few hike-a-bikes, my wife absolutely loved all the beautiful aspen groves this weekend. I've been wanting to take her up there for exactly 1 year now! We hiked a bit into the Pool Creek section from the northern end, and there were still plenty of soft, slushy snow drifts. Melting into muddy soup fast though...
    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    To keep my route questions going.. I understand the Paradox Trail, as used for this, is climbing up U-18 rd right off hwy 141 - all the way to Z-26. This is the way it is described in the old brochure, but they're aren't any markers in the area of the highway that I've seen. Since the newer Paradox route appears to connect in this area, I wanted to be clear.
    You got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    Also, it seems established that to join Paradox to Tabeguache, one rides off the Hauser rd., down the Divide rd. to the Transfer rd., then onto the Tabeguache under the powerlines. At least that's the way I've understood previous discussions. Wouldn't want to miss any turns by mistake.
    You got it again!
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  97. #97
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    Bike back together...

    One more overnight package aside, the Fuel is back together thanks to a friend and I rode it into work this morning. All that's left is a bit of repackaging food and loading a few more tracks into the GPS. Oh boy this week is going fast already...
    On-One Lurcher SS
    Speedway Cycles Fatback Ti SS
    1984 Trek 560
    http://slipangles.blogspot.com/ - It's supposed to be fun

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    The Roubideau section is all clear! Aside from a few hike-a-bikes, my wife absolutely loved all the beautiful aspen groves this weekend. I've been wanting to take her up there for exactly 1 year now! We hiked a bit into the Pool Creek section from the northern end, and there were still plenty of soft, slushy snow drifts. Melting into muddy soup fast though...
    Do you mean the very first bit of singletrack leaving the powerlines - it's good to go from that point?

    I was at a spot yesterday at 9600 where before my TT there was 5-8 feet of snow but yesterday was dry trail. Most encouraging. Looks like we might not need those 5 lbs snowshoes on our back after all.
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Do you mean the very first bit of singletrack leaving the powerlines - it's good to go from that point?
    Unfortunately, no. I came in from the other side for only a mile or so. A few miles from where (I think) you experienced the post-holing action. Looking through the trees along Divide road, there were still dumptruck's worth of snow yesterday afternoon, though... I guess we'll find out pretty soon!
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Unfortunately, no.
    Ah well. I do like surprises Let's hope it's a good one. Rivers are rising quickly again and that's a good sign.
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

    2 Epic

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G

    You got it again!
    Stefan,

    Thanks. Both of those spots have been discussed, I think. Better to be sure than assume.

    FW

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    Thick anticipation

    Well Grand Loopers, my 90% certain is now 100%. I'll be there Friday joining the fun.

    Forecast looks great, perhaps a bit warm but nothing like the sweltering of last year. Honestly on my solo adventure I was cool/cold just about everywhere except tab creek to Pinto mesa and Whitewater/GJ. It was even chilly in Bedrock.

    See ya there.
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

    2 Epic

  103. #103
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    I've got the car ready for the road trip. I head out after work tomorrow for the 15 hour road trip to GJ. What better way to start a sleep depriving ride than with sleep deprivation!
    See you there,

    Dave from Yakima

  104. #104
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    Um. Oh.

    Apparently we have a very confident and very well prepared field for the GL this year, as precisely zero riders showed up for the pre-race meeting.

    Sweet.

    I'll be rolling out with them in ~2 hours here, and will try to check in with a few shots and anecdotes from the start later tonight.

    MC

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