Endurance Fuel for Dummies....Me- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Endurance Fuel for Dummies....Me

    I'm planning my first 100 mile event next summer. I've done 50's to this point with just hydration and a banana or two.

    This obviously wont work for a hundred miles. So, where can I get a primer on race nutrition and hydration for endurance events? Im interested in how many cals per hour and what sorts of foods and drinks are good.


    Thanks,

    JB

  2. #2
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    I have been using Infinit Go Far. Stock, pick up at the lbs formula for all my long stuff. Turned my coach onto it and he has success with it completing a 200 mile gravel race out here in 11hrs and just pulled off his first Leadville attempt in 8:31.

  3. #3
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    Hammer, Infinit, and Tailwind seem to be popular brands, and you can learn plenty about their use on their websites.

    I've fueled 100s with a 50/50 mix of Hammer Heed and Perpetuem since 2006, and usually train with their gels, so I don't have to clean out my water bottle as vigorously. Lazy!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psunset View Post
    I have been using Infinit Go Far. Stock, pick up at the lbs formula for all my long stuff. Turned my coach onto it and he has success with it completing a 200 mile gravel race out here in 11hrs and just pulled off his first Leadville attempt in 8:31.
    Thanks for reply. I’m not sure I understand your second sentence.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrownmxr View Post
    I'm planning my first 100 mile event next summer. I've done 50's to this point with just hydration and a banana or two.

    This obviously wont work for a hundred miles. So, where can I get a primer on race nutrition and hydration for endurance events? Im interested in how many cals per hour and what sorts of foods and drinks are good.


    Thanks,

    JB
    I personally can't handle drink mixes after about three hours, I've tried a few but towards the end of a race my stomach just wants water. My solution, which works for me, is to eats lots of gels; Roctane Salted Chocolate is the one that I can eat all day. A gel every 30 minutes keeps me going. if the course has lots of singletrack I use a flask that holds 4 gel packs, saves me having to futz around opening the pack and potentially dropping it. I use the flask when I need to and if I'm on a fire road or a climb I just grab a regular gel pack from my pocket.

  6. #6
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    I'm the opposite of sdcadbiker... can't handle gels all day!

    I've tried a bunch of products, and like tailwind the best. At first I tried all of the flavors, and thought they were okay. Now my go to is the naked flavor. Tailwind (or any endurance drink) really helps me avoid bonking, and it fights off cramping. I use it to supplement my snack eating... getting calories in with your water is a good way to stay ahead of the game.

    I still eat snacks every hour or so. Lara bars, cliff bars, cashews, stroopwafels, a goo here and there (just cant do only goos).

    As for calories per hour that you should intake... My understanding is that it depends on your body, but general range is 200-300 calories per hour.

    If I were you I would get some tailwind or infinite, and put 150-200 calories in per liter of water. Use that to hydrate for your ride, and eat little snacks every hour. See how that goes and adjust.

  7. #7
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    Thanks folks. I’ll get a few of these products and start experimenting.

  8. #8
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    I have personally had good luck with DIY sports drinks. There are some really basic formulas on the internet that have worked really well for me, and they are pennies on the dollar compared to stuff from Hammer and Tailwind. I also like that I can adjust based on my needs. I prefer to put the majority of my calories in my bottles and then eat something small and solid at the top of every hour to keep my gut from getting bored with just liquid. So it would be something like 75g of mixed carbs and some salt/electrolytes in the bottle (per hour) and a cinnamon rice cake or something at the top of the hour.

    I am cheap and when in full training mode, buying Hammer and Tailwind gets pricey.

  9. #9
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    Limited experience but so far Tailwind does the trick for me. Just finished ORAMM using 1 single serving package per bottle per hour. Now only if I wouldn’t have had so much damn coffee that morning.....

    PS- Endurance Rule #1 should be: Too coffee makes you have to go 💩. Avoid the pre-race coffee!
    Trek Top Fuel 9.9 RSL

  10. #10
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    PS- Endurance Rule #1 should be: Too coffee makes you have to go 💩. Avoid the pre-race coffee!



    Haha. I couldn’t imagine a day without that first poo!

  11. #11
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    I have been on Tailwind for several years, and it definitely works, but at full strength I too am only good until about 4 hours....then I just want water, which I supplement with gels.

    How about that Bonk Breaker stuff Larissa Connors uses, anyone use this? Supposed to be all natural/organic, whatever that means.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgerow View Post
    I have been on Tailwind for several years, and it definitely works, but at full strength I too am only good until about 4 hours....then I just want water, which I supplement with gels.

    How about that Bonk Breaker stuff Larissa Connors uses, anyone use this? Supposed to be all natural/organic, whatever that means.
    When it comes to bars, Bonk Breakers are probably my favorite. I never use bars while on a mountain bike because I hate fiddling with wrappers and such, but I have used the Bonk Breaker PB&Js on road rides. The taste and consistency is heads and tails above other bars (like Clif).

    Like I said, I can't see myself using them as race fuel but they are perfect snack while on a road tour or something.

  13. #13
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    Endurance Fuel for Dummies....Me

    I use tailwind naked throughout the races. I don’t mix the drink too strong just because I supplement with a combo of GU ginger waffles, Endurobites, and GU gels.



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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrownmxr View Post
    I'm planning my first 100 mile event next summer. I've done 50's to this point with just hydration and a banana or two.

    This obviously wont work for a hundred miles. So, where can I get a primer on race nutrition and hydration for endurance events? Im interested in how many cals per hour and what sorts of foods and drinks are good.


    Thanks,

    JB
    Whether you use their products or another brand, this is great information about fueling and hydration for endurance events:

    https://www.hammernutrition.com/media/downloads/SOS.pdf

    or more in depth here:

    https://www.hammernutrition.com/medi...nghandbook.pdf

    I did the Lumberjack 100 on nothing but hammer products for nine hours and had no complaints. I filled a heavy mix of perpetuem in a bottle and electrolyte fizz in my camelbak Chase hydration pack. I never ate anything solid for the nine hours and never wanted to. This doesn’t work for everyone but was successful for me. Hammer pushes their products but once you understand the concepts you can experiment with other brands that may be more suitable for your personal fueling needs and wants.
    2018 Scott Spark RC 900 World Cup | “If you’re not first you’re last”

  15. #15
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    I experimented with a variety of products before doing some long rides this summer. I found that products that use maltodextrin affect my stomach on longer days. Tailwind was too salty for me and I didn't enjoy the flavor on longer rides. I ultimately found that Skratch labs products worked the best. The flavors are really light. I needed to take in about 250 calories an hour, and each scoop is 80 calories and each bag of chews is 160 calories so it was easy to combine the powder and chews in servings that equaled the amount of hourly calories. I did mix in a couple of gels with caffeine when I needed a boost. If your stomach is OK with maltodextrin I like Egels. They have 150 calories per packet and enough sodium so that you don't need to take salt tabs. Everyone seems to react differently to these products so keep experimenting until you have it dialed.

  16. #16
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    You folks are the best. Thanks. Amazon is on the way!

  17. #17
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    I gave the infinit go far a try. It's my first use of a drink "supplement" for a long ride. I did 60 miles with 7600 vert. Previously I'd bonk at 35 miles and 3500 feet so it definitely helped get me home.

    Being a scientist I left out any other calories or water. I started to feel a bit nauseated with the infinit around the 40 mile mark. I'm going to need a solid food in the mix.

    What are you guys running that might be salty savory. I feel like the sweet thing is making me queasy?

  18. #18
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    So... seriously... gas stations have sliced pickles in bags and I love them. Besides that I eat bonk bars and cliff bars


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrownmxr View Post
    PS- Endurance Rule #1 should be: Too coffee makes you have to go . Avoid the pre-race coffee!



    Haha. I couldn’t imagine a day without that first poo!

    A bit off topic... and in the lane of "Race Day Strategy," but do consider the $$$ or $,$$$ you've spent to shave grams/ounces off your ride. Do NOT carry that extra "poison cargo" with you all day.
    On race day consider getting up at least TWO HOURS before start time (if you're camping on site). Point is, get that one/single cup of coffee in right away to get your innards moving. Then eat breakfast about 1.5 hours prior to start time (2.0 hrs prior for XC races where you come out hammering).
    For example, SM100 rolls off at 06:30. I get up at 04:30 make coffee immediately, then eat about 05:00, and then get myself and gear ready. Yes, getting up early can suck, but you've done this for weeks in preparation already....right?

    After all that, I'm a Tailwind guy. LOVE it! My mixture is 2 scoops per 20 oz of water... all day long (a little stronger when really hot). Maybe grab a handful of Skittles, a banana, or pieces of PB&J along the way, but not much.
    BTW, I use Tailwind on EVERY training ride too. So, my body is completely used it... consuming it 5 days a week. After a while, it becomes second nature.
    Good luck to you and let us know how your experiments go.
    _Matt
    I just wanna ride...

  20. #20
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    I've been a Tailwind user for several years and it has served me well. I often mix the lemon and berry and make them into ice cubes to put in my bottles or pack depending on the length of the race. This year I did Lumberjack on 9 bottles of Tailwind and supplemented with a few Nature's Bakery fig bars. The bars were mostly just to break the monotony and give me something to chew. That, and I love them.

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  21. #21
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    Thanks guys. I ordered and read the Feed Zone Portables book. I’m going to try a few of the sticky rice recipes.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsills View Post
    ...Now only if I wouldn’t have had so much damn coffee that morning.....

    PS- Endurance Rule #1 should be: Too coffee makes you have to go 💩. Avoid the pre-race coffee!
    Agreed! But, black coffee (no cream/sugar/milk, etc) is great preworkout/race, where you don't plan on being out for hours on end with no bathroom in site.

  23. #23
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    I've found that coffee or caffeine that comes from coffee in mixes/gels is too hard on my system. Gels that use green tea extract are much better for me. Usually slam a gel with green tea after a couple hours of riding and get a little 'boost.' I'll have to give Tailwind another try since so many swear by it--maybe dilute with more water to make it less salty. The long rides everyone is doing are really impressive!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drich View Post
    I've found that coffee or caffeine that comes from coffee in mixes/gels is too hard on my system. Gels that use green tea extract are much better for me. Usually slam a gel with green tea after a couple hours of riding and get a little 'boost.' I'll have to give Tailwind another try since so many swear by it--maybe dilute with more water to make it less salty. The long rides everyone is doing are really impressive!
    I might have to try that. Normal gels with caffeine in them make my body not know what the hell is happening, lol.

    The worst was when I bought the caffeinated version of tailwind and went on a 50 mile ride with no normal water. Halfway through the ride I had crazy caffein jitters, but couldn’t stop drinking the water. What a ride, haha


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psunset View Post
    I have been using Infinit Go Far. Stock, pick up at the lbs formula for all my long stuff. Turned my coach onto it and he has success with it completing a 200 mile gravel race out here in 11hrs and just pulled off his first Leadville attempt in 8:31.
    Infinit works great for me, I use their off the shelf stuff (Go Far or Jet Fuel) as well as a custom blended formula depending on the event. I was able to get the electrolytes I need and it sits well in my stomach after 6+ hours with nothing else going in the tank. Tailwind is ok but I always had to supplement it with gels or other food and that got complicated/expensive. Start doing the math of how much your nutrition plan costs per hour and even the custom blended Infinit starts to look pretty good. Just did 50 mile Steamboat Stinger and zero cramps all day in 90 deg+ by the end of a 6hr day.

    If you want to order some Infinit, use the code INFINIT-COLEMAN for $5 off your first order and some chunk off subsequent orders. That book Feed Zone Portables has a really good section in the beginning about cals/hr and how that changes based on power etc.
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

  26. #26
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    Good stuff! 👍😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    Infinit works great for me, I use their off the shelf stuff (Go Far or Jet Fuel) as well as a custom blended formula depending on the event. I was able to get the electrolytes I need and it sits well in my stomach after 6+ hours with nothing else going in the tank. Tailwind is ok but I always had to supplement it with gels or other food and that got complicated/expensive. Start doing the math of how much your nutrition plan costs per hour and even the custom blended Infinit starts to look pretty good. Just did 50 mile Steamboat Stinger and zero cramps all day in 90 deg+ by the end of a 6hr day.

    If you want to order some Infinit, use the code INFINIT-COLEMAN for $5 off your first order and some chunk off subsequent orders. That book Feed Zone Portables has a really good section in the beginning about cals/hr and how that changes based on power etc.
    Bump, for those of ya'll considering Infinit custom blends, their big annual sale is tomorrow. Typically BOGO...check the site tomorrow for details but the code is THESALE2018 (not sure if my INFINIT-COLEMAN will stack but try it and it's another $5 off?)
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    Bump, for those of ya'll considering Infinit custom blends, their big annual sale is tomorrow. Typically BOGO...check the site tomorrow for details but the code is THESALE2018 (not sure if my INFINIT-COLEMAN will stack but try it and it's another $5 off?)
    The sale is live on Infinit if anybody wants to try it, Buy One get One Free is pretty tough to beat if you were considering a custom blend. Here's the exact mix I use for endurance racing if you want to use that as a starting point:
    https://www.infinitnutrition.us/shop....html?___SID=U

    Supplement Facts
    Servings Per Container: 25
    Serving Size: 2 Scoops (61.26 g)
    Ingredients
    Amount Per Serving
    Calories: 225
    Calories from Fat: 0
    Total Fat: 0g - 0%
    Saturated Fat: 0g - 0%
    Trans Fat: 0g - 0%
    Cholesterol: 0mg - 0%
    Sodium: 577mg - 24%
    Potassium: 171mg - 5%
    Total Carbohydrate: 53g - 17%
    Dietary Fiber: 0g - 0%
    Sugars: 20g
    Protein: 3g - 5%
    Vitamin A (Beta-Carotene): 0mg - 0%
    Vitamin C: 0mg - 0%
    Calcium: 39mg - 4%
    Magnesium: 30mg - 8%
    Thiamin: 0mg - 0%
    Riboflavin: 0mg - 0%
    Iron: 0mg - 0%


    Maltodextrin
    Dextrose
    Natural cane sugar
    Citric Acid
    Natural Orange Flavors
    Sea salt
    Potassium chloride
    Magnesium gluconate
    Calcium lactate gluconate
    Whey protein isolate
    L-Isoleucine
    L-Valine
    L-Leucine
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

  29. #29
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    Non traditional advice: Unless you’re racing for a paycheck, eat normal food like fruit, p,b&j, potato chips, black tea with milk and honey(great midnight treat in a 24 hour event)...

    I’ve never enjoyed eating “robot turds” for hours on end. Surprisingly, I was still pretty fast and finished races others didn’t. Your times will be 90% a result of your training, rest and nutrition in the months leading up to the race.

    However, if you enjoy eating gels and bars and they have a positive psychological affect for you, there are hundreds of options.

    Whatever you choose, train with the food you race with. You can end up with a serious case of the mid race shits otherwise.


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  30. #30
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    I recommend downloading the Mountain Bike Radio app and listen to the back-catalogue of the Apex Nutrition podcast. There are a few shows where Kelli states exactly how many calories, hydration, sodium, etc per hour is optimal for endurance racing. I even recall a LT100 podcast, which may be an ideal place for you to start. With that knowledge, you can start experiementing with different products or whole foods to see what works best for you.

    Note that i am not affiliated in any way with MBR or Apex Nutrition. I just found those podcasts to be extremely informative when I first began learning about endurance nutrition.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey-Wrench View Post
    Whatever you choose, train with the food you race with. You can end up with a serious case of the mid race shits otherwise.


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    I signed up for my first 100k, and would like to not get mid race shits. That sounds unpleasant. I guess I will make sure I train with what will race with.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketexmex View Post
    I signed up for my first 100k, and would like to not get mid race shits. That sounds unpleasant. I guess I will make sure I train with what will race with.
    I have a few “colorful” stories.


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