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  1. #1
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    Carborocket vs Hammer

    What would you guys use?

    I want answers from people who have tried at least one for endurance races and long training rides.

    if you have tried both, even better. I am not sure about which one to use, is carborocket made for long endurance races? i know they have a new formula for endurance.


    thanks!
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  2. #2
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    I was just given a huge tub of the new Carborocket Half Evil formula -333. I was surprised to see that there was zero protein in the mix. Strange for an endurance fuel.
    I have not had an opportunity to use it for more than a 2.5hr jaunt to date. It's ok so far.

  3. #3
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    Carborocket has 3000mg of branched chain amino acids and 1500mg of L-glutamine per serving.

    It does say 0g of protein on the Nutrition Facts label.

    Amino acids by themselves are not a protein, they are the building blocks of protein. Proteins are biochemical compounds consisting of one or more polypeptides. A polypeptide is a single linear polymer chain of amino acids bonded together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of adjacent amino acid residues.

    Amino acids are what you want in your sports drink for fast digestion. The 0g of protein on the Nutrition Facts label is a tad misleading.

    I am a big Carborocket fan and have fueled many a big ride and race with it - good stuff.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyndaW View Post
    Carborocket has 3000mg of branched chain amino acids and 1500mg of L-glutamine per serving.

    It does say 0g of protein on the Nutrition Facts label.

    Amino acids by themselves are not a protein, they are the building blocks of protein. Proteins are biochemical compounds consisting of one or more polypeptides. A polypeptide is a single linear polymer chain of amino acids bonded together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of adjacent amino acid residues.

    Amino acids are what you want in your sports drink for fast digestion. The 0g of protein on the Nutrition Facts label is a tad misleading.

    I am a big Carborocket fan and have fueled many a big ride and race with it - good stuff.
    True, isn't protein more for recovery than helping me get through an endurance race?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzinn23 View Post
    True, isn't protein more for recovery than helping me get through an endurance race?
    Your thinking of whey protein which is great for after workouts because it quickly goes to the muscles for recover. Soy protein is used in endurance formulas because it is slower digesting and the theory is it prevents muscle from being ate away during long rides. Here's what Hammer says about it: Protein - Why it's important for endurance athletes | Hammer Nutrition. CabroRobot explains why no protein in there FAQ: FAQ's | CarboRocket I use Hammer Nutrition personally, but at the end of the day you really need to just go out for those long training rides and experiment. Of course, if you can't keep whatever fancy sports drink you are using down it isn't going to do you any good since it will be laying on the trail side after puking it up. Looks like CarboRockets campaign is all about being able to easily digest it.

  6. #6
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    thanks for the clarification, I am going to try the Carborocket this spring, and then try the perpetuem after a few rides.
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  7. #7
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    I've used both Carborocket and Perpetuem for long rides (100 - 200 mile / gravel road rides). I've found Carborocket to be easier on my stomach and it left me feeling less bloated than Perpetuem. Also, the instructions for the Hammer products are fairly adamant about not using them with other products, which is a pain for me as I like having variety of foods to eat on my rides. I find the subtle flavor of the Carborocket more pleasing than the taste of Perpetuem too.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfuller View Post
    I've used both Carborocket and Perpetuem for long rides (100 - 200 mile / gravel road rides). I've found Carborocket to be easier on my stomach and it left me feeling less bloated than Perpetuem. Also, the instructions for the Hammer products are fairly adamant about not using them with other products, which is a pain for me as I like having variety of foods to eat on my rides. I find the subtle flavor of the Carborocket more pleasing than the taste of Perpetuem too.
    Thanks for the input, did you try any other hammer products such as gels or hammer bars?

    Any recommendations on solid food? or should i just use carborocket and nothing else? thanks
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  9. #9
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    Hammer Perpetuem does not agree with me at all. I bonk after about 45 minutes using it.

    Carborocket 333 works very well for me. I feel a nice boost from the caffeine and keep good energy levels throughout the ride.

    The other good one is Infinit. It works well for me too.

    I think it comes down to trial and error. I suggest you get some test packets and give them both a try.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocheese View Post
    Hammer Perpetuem does not agree with me at all. I bonk after about 45 minutes using it.

    Carborocket 333 works very well for me. I feel a nice boost from the caffeine and keep good energy levels throughout the ride.

    The other good one is Infinit. It works well for me too.

    I think it comes down to trial and error. I suggest you get some test packets and give them both a try.
    so the caffeine helps you? i drink a lot of caffeine, but am not sure if i want to use it during an endurance ride. i will have to test that out
    It's all downhill from here.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzinn23 View Post
    so the caffeine helps you? i drink a lot of caffeine, but am not sure if i want to use it during an endurance ride. i will have to test that out
    Many of the drinks/gels used in endurance events have caffeine in them, but it is less than what is typically in your starbucks. I quit drinking coffee and tea a few weeks ahead of my race if I am looking to feel a benefit of the caffeine in the drink mixes. Its a good self-control/discipline exercise for those few weeks. I like coffee.
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  12. #12
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    I have had great experience with Hammer stuff for both training and endurance races. Like others, I never really "loved" straight Perpetuem, and I've ended up with a personal favorite custom blend of Perpetuem, Heed, and Gatorade at about 1:1:1. Great energy, great flavor, easy on the tummy. I supplement that with Hammer Gel as-needed to get enough calories, shooting for about 400 per hour (I weigh 190). If I need solid food (almost never) I'll eat at most one Hammer Bar in a 100 mile race, and I'll make sure to eat it right before a lengthy downhill, so I get a bit of lower HR digestion time.

    I'm not a believer in much caffeine while racing, for fear of the negative rebound effect when it wears off. BUT, I do love a bit of a kick once I know I'm within 2 hours of the finish, either in my drink bottle (flat Mtn Dew) or in the gel.

    Sorry, no experience with Carborocket.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    I have had great experience with Hammer stuff for both training and endurance races. Like others, I never really "loved" straight Perpetuem, and I've ended up with a personal favorite custom blend of Perpetuem, Heed, and Gatorade at about 1:1:1. Great energy, great flavor, easy on the tummy. I supplement that with Hammer Gel as-needed to get enough calories, shooting for about 400 per hour (I weigh 190). If I need solid food (almost never) I'll eat at most one Hammer Bar in a 100 mile race, and I'll make sure to eat it right before a lengthy downhill, so I get a bit of lower HR digestion time.
    any special kind of gatorade you use? I won't have too much sustained downhill on my 8 hour race as it is a 9 mile loop over and over. Do you ever really feel hungry without eating solid food during a long race?
    It's all downhill from here.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzinn23 View Post
    any special kind of gatorade you use? I won't have too much sustained downhill on my 8 hour race as it is a 9 mile loop over and over. Do you ever really feel hungry without eating solid food during a long race?
    I like the powdered Lemon Lime and Glacier Frost (blue stuff) flavors. I don't like the Fruit Punch. But flavor is so personal.

    I race pretty hard, and really believe that liquid calories are much more easily processed under those conditions. Calories are calories, and the only time I feel hungry is if I get too focussed on racing and forget to drink or gel enough.

    When that happens, for some reason, solid food really calls to me, but it's probably psychological. For solid food while racing, I've never found a bar that eats easier than the Hammer bars. Very soft and easy to chew and swallow when you're going hard. Spendy though. Best purchased every Spring with REI dividend dollars!

    Last summer, I was racing a 100 miler and having a great, intense battle. I got behind on calories towards the 90 mile point (one big climb to go), and the aid station was out of everything but Cliff Shot Blocks, and I figured it was that or bonk hard. They worked great, and I will add them to my "approved list" for next season, for sure!
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  15. #15
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    I have a good amount of experience with both products. I started out my endurance life with all hammer products and did have success with them. I still use heed and I do like their gels. But in my experience, for me, the Half Evil is much easier on my stomach and has pretty much allowed me to do away with solid foods. I'm not a small guy so I burn a ton of calories-- I would and do recommend the CR to everyone.

  16. #16
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    I've been using Carborocket for the past year in my MTB races and training.

    I also completed an Ironman this past summer using Carborocket as my primary fuel.

    Hammer products don't agree with my belly.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffwilsonn View Post
    I have a good amount of experience with both products. I started out my endurance life with all hammer products and did have success with them. I still use heed and I do like their gels. But in my experience, for me, the Half Evil is much easier on my stomach and has pretty much allowed me to do away with solid foods. I'm not a small guy so I burn a ton of calories-- I would and do recommend the CR to everyone.
    Lose weight and you'll burn less

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewelnak View Post
    Lose weight and you'll burn less
    troll

  19. #19
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    I used Hammer for years. But after so many hours I ended up getting sick of it and then eventually sick all over myself if I even smelled it. No doubt it works for some, but I could not have been happier using 303 all season long and saving my top tube from paint rotting vomit acid! Plus I love ditching the gels and using the good tasting liquid.
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  20. #20
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    wow, so it seems like to me that CR 303 is the way to go. no way to tell unless i test it out, but is there anyone that Carborocket just didn't work for them at all? just curious, anyone mix the normal carborocket and CR 303 during races?
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  21. #21
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    Never heard of carborocket I have been using INFINIT and do regular long rides per week, 50 milers are easy, my short ride. You need to understand endurance and nutrition and most of all you need to love riding long distance. I will need to do some research on carborocket.

  22. #22
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    I have been riding with perpetuem all season and for the last 2 rides I have tried carborocket 333. I mix 6 scoops per 100oz of water in my camelbak with both mixes. So far I am leaning towards the perpetuem. The scoops are larger for the carborocket so you are using up more mix per scoop. My stomach is not bothered by either of them. So far the perpetuem gives me a more full feeling which I like. Power wise so far seams about the same. My rides are liquid only with no food.

  23. #23
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    Infinit

    I have tried Hammer, it worked fine for the 1 to 2 hour races. When I started doing endurance racing, ie the LumberJack 100 I noticed I was getting sick at about 4 to 5 hours, using Hammer Gel and Perpetuem.

    I switch to Infinit, you can dial in your formula, custom made to your needs and weight and how sensitive your stomach is. You can even get a consult from a nutritionist. No more gels, everything is in your bottle.

    I have 3 formulas in my Infinit profile, rides under 4 hours, rides over 4 hours, and one for hot humid days.

    So far the stuff is working for me... Infinit Nutrition | Custom Sports Nutrition Solutions | USA

  24. #24
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    How much does the infinit cost per scoop and about how many calories are in each scoop? I have been to their site a few times and could not find that info.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    How much does the infinit cost per scoop and about how many calories are in each scoop? I have been to their site a few times and could not find that info.
    Cost, not quit sure what it is per scoop. $43.00 for about 25 servings according to the website.

    You set the calories buy using the slider bars on your mix. If you slide the calorie bar on the main web page you will see the number change at the bottom of the formula.

  26. #26
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    Just looking at the your link without moving any sliders it comes to 280 calories. But it does not say how many scoops you would need for a 280 calorie 24 oz bottle.

  27. #27
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    Infinit on sale

    Check out their Facebook page, looks like there is going to be a sale... Infinit Nutrition - Manufacturing - Cincinnati | Facebook, a good time to try some.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    Just looking at the your link without moving any sliders it comes to 280 calories. But it does not say how many scoops you would need for a 280 calorie 24 oz bottle.
    Every order I have says to add 2 scoops for a 24 ounce bottle and I follow that.

  29. #29
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    Hammer is too stuck on their "no sugar" mantra. Simple sugars are most accessible form of energy for you body - dextrose being tops. So i think maltodextrin / sugar mix makes sense and has always worked great for me. Carbo rocket is better for me on big rides. I've used infinit too, just as good as CR for me - maybe a little better.

  30. #30
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    Go to the Hammer website and read their articles. I used Hammer extensively both for training and racing a 100 mile kayak race with a 32 hr. time limit (no stopping for 21 hours). I am completely satisfied with Hammer and still use it and would use it for any type of endurance event.

  31. #31
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    Does anyone know if Carborocket spoils after so many hours?

  32. #32
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    I used to use Perpetuem for long races, but switched to Accelorade because it doesnít require that I mix a separate bottle for hydration and electrolytes, and it doesnít seem to curdle as fast in the heat. It kind of tastes like a cross between tang and what I imagine battery acid might taste like, so it isnít for everyone.

  33. #33
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    i got a kilo of carborocket half evil today, i will post when i test it out on how it works, etc.
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  34. #34
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    Well I can't say to have tried Perpetuem in other than a sample "chewable" form. Not happening for me, tasted like cardboard. but I have used Hammer Sustained Energy to excellent results in 100 milers supported with an additional bottle of an electolyte (whatever floats your boat) for every bottle of Sustained E, first time I used it, I realized what all these "liquid nutrition" fans were talking about. If it wasn't for the fact that I love Powerbar Gel Blasts, I would not have had any solid fuel at all during the races. So although Perpetuem might get the latest and greatest review, Sustained is my go to fuel for endurance events where I can refuel from a cooler due to the "souring" of the product. I do plan to try CR this year though for non suportable races to see how it works.
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  35. #35
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    Is there a difference between Perpetuem and baby formula?

    I've tried a lot of different sports drinks, including everything Hammer offers. CarboRocket is the only one that hasn't given me stomach problems. I've used it extensively over the last 3 years. Both formulas (333/regular) are excellent.
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  36. #36
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    Just finished my first jug of CR 333 raspberry.

    2.2lb 1000G = 33 scoops (70cc) = $29

    1 scoop = 111cal
    ____________________________________

    Perpetuam scoops are 53CC

    1 scoop = 135 cal

    2.43Lb = 16 serving container = $25

    Never counted how many scoops are in a package.

  37. #37
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    Just finished my first jug of CR 333 raspberry.

    2.2lb 1000G = 33 scoops (70cc) = $29

    1 scoop = 111cal
    ____________________________________

    Perpetuam scoops are 53CC

    1 scoop = 135 cal

    2.43Lb = $25

    Never counted how many scoops are in a package.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    How much does the infinit cost per scoop and about how many calories are in each scoop? I have been to their site a few times and could not find that info.
    The cost is about $1.70 per hour, give or take. 1 serving per hour is all you need. No additional gels, food or salt pills. Eatough, Pua and Toastado all have been using INFINIT for years for the 12/24 hour stuff.

    The calories per scoop is determined by what YOU need, not by what the company tells you. A 110lb rider need far less calorie than a 220 pounder. We adjust the calories, electrolyte, add protein or caffeine and flavor to taste how YOU want.

    We are simple, just drink your stuff and ride you bike. If nutrition gets complicated, most people will mess it up.

    I also agree with the poster that said that Hammer is stuck on the no simple sugars montra. You 100% want some component of simple sugars in your nutrition plan.

  39. #39
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    I use CR 333 and medjool dates. If it's an extra long ride maybe a couple salt caps.

  40. #40
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    I favor Hammer Perpetuem mixed in one bottle to last the entire ride time, along with their gel in a flask, and water. I can't eat any type of hard bar that requires a lot of chewing and water to get it down, I'd rather hydrate while taking my calories.
    I haven't tried the others, I'm still happy with the Hammer brand.

  41. #41
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    I have used Hammer for years in 100mi and 24hr events...love the products I use and dont feel a need to change.

  42. #42
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    Yeah,Honey is good also. I have used Hammer for a few yers a few years back but I only did good one time on that stuff, most of the time I get sick at about hour 15 to 20 in a 24 hour race that's when I need it most. Carborocket hasn't let me down,I like to eat a little I just have my pit guy back off my mix or go to just water for a 1/2 or full hour. I have also tryed making my own but got to much suger (got sick at hour 20),I have gone to using honey in own mix and it's better but I haven't tryed it on long rides and I wouldn't race on it when I know the 333 works the only other thing I would use is the Infinit.

  43. #43
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    I can't comment on CR, haven't tried it. I have tried, and given up on, Perp. However, I found that Sustained Energy (another Hammer product) works very well for me. For those who can't tolerate Perpetuem, maybe Sustained Energy is a better choice.

  44. #44
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    I can't comment on CR either but I also couldn't keep down Perpeteum in a bottle. What does work for me is making up a paste from unflavored perpeteum/water mixed with little hammer gel for taste. Using Water with Electrolytes only (no HEED or other Carb Drink) so it sticks close enough to those Hammer recommendations for Perpetuem.

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