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  1. #1
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    well it happened 2 me.

    i guess id was inevitable, gotta hate when this happens.

    Yep broke id!
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  2. #2
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    i guess id was inevitable, gotta hate when this happens.

    Yep broke id!

    Bummer! I hope EW CS takes care of you. Perharps they can hook you up with the assymetrical chainstay, free of charge. Let us know how it goes.

    SP
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    i guess id was inevitable, gotta hate when this happens.

    Yep broke id!
    Bummer dude. That's the exact spot mine cracked and it looked just like it. Surprisingly, EW hooked me up under warranty. I'm only 150 lbs. and don't FR at all and when I saw this happen, I promptly sold it for a Burner. The Burner feels more solid in back but I do miss the climbing ability of the Id.

    I'm sure you'll be taken care of but I'd stress the need for a 'new' style replacement.

    Good luck!

    P.S. I voted for your jersey!
    Why would I need more than one gear?
    @A_SingleSpeeder
    EPA = crooks!

  4. #4
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Ellsworth frame.

    That sucks, that's the same place my Truth broke this summer and another guy I know exact same place.I'm no clylde and race my Ells with care.Ellswoth Customer service were good to me and I had a replacement part in about 3 days.I emailed them some digital images .
    I know this comes up way too often but maybe Ellsworth should look into some alternate thickness or welds in that spot as all I've seen seem to crack there.Hope you make out okay with Ellsworth as I still believe they make one of the best rides on the market.
    James

  5. #5
    Trail rider and racer
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    What year model frame is it?

    Funny how this happened, and it looks like Lindermans broke recently too. Wonder if the frames were the same year models.
    Trev!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    What year model frame is it?

    Funny how this happened, and it looks like Lidarmans broke recently too. Wonder if the frames were the same year models.
    Mine has broken twice actually. And both stays were the same and even the same as the 2005 moments. This is common with the say.

    The new designed stay will be going on all the bikes.

  7. #7
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    So is this happenning on the new stays? 2005's?I got a '03 Truth. I am worried about seat tube getting busted like many 2001's.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoked
    So is this happenning on the new stays? 2005's?I got a '03 Truth. I am worried about seat tube getting busted like many 2001's.
    2001 truth had a bad seat tube pivot gusset that has been changed and is better so you are prolly in good shape.

    I really think Ellsworth is working on getting rid of these problems. The main triangles are holding up and now they are building a better chainstay. This is a result of their work being done in house.

    On the failure note, I noticed two posts lately about broken or cracking Turners on the seat tube so no frame is immune to it. The raves on the Turner board were about the customer service (one was out of warranty and the owner had to pay for parts) but it seems that aspect is also good these days in Ellsworthia.

  9. #9
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    Cracked Frame

    Sorry to see that on your bike , but what I do not understand is that Ellsworth's FS frame are are not built light and for sure not cheap either .. those being the major reasons for a frame to crack ! .. if they are selling 1500 bucks frame that crack all the times , they should really test their stuff better before rushing it to market just to make a quick bucks.

    Even with good after sales warranty , they are still a risking the life of their customer that shell out top dollars for a frame that we cannot trust ! I was going to get one , now I will look elsewhere .

  10. #10
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    Frames Break

    Quote Originally Posted by phillyGTA
    Sorry to see that on your bike , but what I do not understand is that Ellsworth's FS frame are are not built light and for sure not cheap either .. those being the major reasons for a frame to crack ! .. if they are selling 1500 bucks frame that crack all the times , they should really test their stuff better before rushing it to market just to make a quick bucks.

    Even with good after sales warranty , they are still a risking the life of their customer that shell out top dollars for a frame that we cannot trust ! I was going to get one , now I will look elsewhere .
    Dude, all frames break, an unbroken frame is one that's just waiting to break. The core problem with Ellsworth's warranty was the customer service aspect. It looks like Ellsworth has addressed this issue since recent posts are positive experiences. Take a look at their bikes, they're always changing to improve. They get a few tweaks here and there within the same model year. If you look at the boards objectively, there are frame breaks on all of the manufacturers. Shoot, there's one on the Foes Forum that I read about yesterday. To say $1500+ frames should not break is ludicrous. Go buy a Huffy, I'm sure they won't break, but they'll probably weigh 50lbs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprocketHead
    Dude, all frames break, an unbroken frame is one that's just waiting to break. The core problem with Ellsworth's warranty was the customer service aspect. It looks like Ellsworth has addressed this issue since recent posts are positive experiences. Take a look at their bikes, they're always changing to improve. They get a few tweaks here and there within the same model year. If you look at the boards objectively, there are frame breaks on all of the manufacturers. Shoot, there's one on the Foes Forum that I read about yesterday. To say $1500+ frames should not break is ludicrous. Go buy a Huffy, I'm sure they won't break, but they'll probably weigh 50lbs.
    I'd say the core problem with Ellsworths warranty program is that EVERY Ellsworth owner has to us it at some time or another. I know many people who ride bikes and EVERY person I know who owns (or ownED) an Ellsworth...broke it. I myself, broke my Isis three different times in three different places. I have to mention that I'm a pretty tame trail rider, I rarely do a drop over 1'...primarily XC stuff. There is absolutely NO reason in he!! that I should be breaking a frame 3 times in as many years.

    I'l say this much for Ellsworth, they took care of me ALL three times with a warranty replacement...they took care of my friend Larry when he broke his....they took care of my friend Larrys brother Tim BOTH times when he broke his also. I could go on with other people I know personally. I just met the original poster of this thread at a gathering this past weekend, there were many people with many different makes of bikes there and the ONLY frame that broke (that I know of anyway)...was an Ellsworth. The pattern continues to grow....

    The best warranty...is the one you never have to use.

  12. #12
    Time is not a road.
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    So that begs the question: Was it design or manufacture that caused these failures?

    Now that Ells produces it own frames, maybe things will change. Time will tell. There don't seem to be a lot of 2004-2005 bikes cracking.

    I could recount instances of frames cracking from Giant, Schwinn, Specialized, Turner, Ventana, Kona, Foes and Titus (4x). Santa Cruz has had bearing problems with VPP. No one is immune to breaks and/or cracks, I think they just get a lot of press.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    I'd say the core problem with Ellsworths warranty program is that EVERY Ellsworth owner has to us it at some time or another. I know many people who ride bikes and EVERY person I know who owns (or ownED) an Ellsworth...broke it..
    I cannot agree with that statement.

    I am an Ellsworth owner, never broke anything. Heck, my Truth was from 1999/2000 so that was ridden for 5 years.

    My wife's Truth did not break.

    My friend's Truth did not break and that's a 2001 model.

    So every Ellsworth owner I personally know has never broken his or her Ellsworth. Is that representative?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprocketHead
    Dude, all frames break, an unbroken frame is one that's just waiting to break. The core problem with Ellsworth's warranty was the customer service aspect. It looks like Ellsworth has addressed this issue since recent posts are positive experiences. Take a look at their bikes, they're always changing to improve. They get a few tweaks here and there within the same model year. If you look at the boards objectively, there are frame breaks on all of the manufacturers. Shoot, there's one on the Foes Forum that I read about yesterday. To say $1500+ frames should not break is ludicrous. Go buy a Huffy, I'm sure they won't break, but they'll probably weigh 50lbs.
    I think you miss my point here , I am not saying $1500 frame should not break , what I am saying is their bikes should not crack at the same EXACT spot !! that points to a design problem which is my major concern here.

    I sure hope Ellsworth is doing better with their new models , but you have got to be a real fan of EW to put down big $$$ on a frame that comes with some many ??? when you land hard ; )

    And just because you read another guy crack a foes frame , it really doesn't justify what they did .. i.e selling all these defective , or at least poorly design , bikes to us.

  15. #15
    Time is not a road.
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    And just because you read another guy crack a foes frame , it really doesn't justify what they did .. i.e selling all these defective , or at least poorly design , bikes to us.
    Actually, if you read the posting on the Foes board, the commenters note that Foes knew of the problem and suggested that the frames should have been recalled. Some have suggested that of certain Truth models. My buddy's Titus cracked at the rear swingarm 4 TIMES. Obviously, Titus knew about those failures and didn't recall bikes. They changed the design, like Ellsworth has on their bikes.

    I blame the consumer for always needing something new, something different. Manufacturers should take a design, refine it, understand its weak points and try to sell a product that never fails, always performs and retains it's value. But ultimately, the best R & D division is the consumer. So here we are! Testing designs day after day...it's not like we're talking about GM who can spend lots of money and time on that kind of thing...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    I cannot agree with that statement.

    I am an Ellsworth owner, never broke anything. Heck, my Truth was from 1999/2000 so that was ridden for 5 years.

    My wife's Truth did not break.

    My friend's Truth did not break and that's a 2001 model.

    So every Ellsworth owner I personally know has never broken his or her Ellsworth. Is that representative?
    So I'l recant and say that EVERYONE that I personally know who owned an Ellsworth has broken it at least once....looks to be more then a coincidance happening here in MY neck of the woods.

  17. #17
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    Judging from the chain guide in your photo, you were obviously using your ID for a purpose that it was unintended for. The ID is a cross country bike - pure and simple.
    You are lucky that you didn't have a much more drastic failure than those wee little hair line fractures.

  18. #18
    853+29+1x24=Fun
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    Not sure if your joking (or if you are trolling) but that's not a chain guide. It is a bash guard. I run one on my Id becuse I never used the big ring and it helps getting over some of the bigger down trees we have on the east coast.

  19. #19
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    The ID is an all-trail bike- not an XC bike. Brado definitely does not ride beyond the bike's intended limits- Pisgah district contains almost nothing beyond it's limits. Troll city. Mike

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by powfiend
    Judging from the chain guide in your photo, you were obviously using your ID for a purpose that it was unintended for. The ID is a cross country bike - pure and simple.
    ...
    Rediculous post of the month. Thanks for the laugh.

  21. #21
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    powfiend, I don't know how much you read of these forums, but this is a known weak area in the ID chainstay. Ellsworth has redesigned a new stronger appearing asymetrical piece. lidarman has one now.

    I am hoping brado1 gets the new redesigned stay at no cost to him. I think that would only be fair, especially since his bike should be one of the "lifetime" warranty ones.

    Blaming the rider will only hurt Ellsworth in the long run. I think they've realized this and moved away from that tactic themselves. I think the best thing we Ellsworth owners can do on this board is to be supportive and helpful to each other. If someone posts a bike that has obviously been run over by a Mack truck and whines it wasn't covered by warranty, we can all rip into him or her then.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    i guess id was inevitable, gotta hate when this happens.

    Yep broke id!
    The reason those frames (Truth's & Ids) have had problems with failures on the chainstays is a 2 part problem.
    Ellsworth has designed their frames in a way they believe will make it the best performing frame on the market.
    They would then send those specs to a "frame build house" (they make Santa Cruz, Intense, Turner, etc frames as well)
    The Build House does a great job building frames, but because there are two parties involved in the bike build it can create unforseen problems once the bikes hit the market.
    The Build House uses extruded tubing to build the frames they make. Those extruded tubes have hairline/weak ridges in the tubes. Those spots are where the frames have been failing.
    They only learn about them after frames come back for warranty. Same goes for The Build House.
    The Prototypes are tested (w/o failures), approved, and then sent to factory for production. The problem arises when you get a large number of frames out in the market. It is extremely rare that a frame will have no failures. The more frames on the market, the more the chances rise for failures.
    Plus people usually speak up about the problems that arise alot more than the positives they have with their frame/bike.
    Ellsworth has opened it's own production facility and is now using drawn tubing which is one "fluid" tube profile and doesn't have the hairline/weak ridges in the tubes.
    This should significantly improve the durability of the frames.
    Everything is now done in house so it will greatly decrease the "unforseen problems" that arises when two parties are involved.
    For the record - Ellsworth has a ZERO failure rate on the Moment frames. This is pretty significant because of the abuse those bikes are seeing.

  23. #23
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    enough said...

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Rediculous post of the month. Thanks for the laugh.

    troll...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by srobertstx
    For the record - Ellsworth has a ZERO failure rate on the Moment frames.
    Don't speak too quickly.

    1. The moment has not been on the market that long so it's questionable if there has been enough use put on the stays.
    2. Initial production moments use the old stay that is prone to break after enough cycles. The new ones will be using the new stay.

    It almost seems the old stay WILL break eventually on these first run moments. That is going to be a real headache because it's likely going to be after the warranty.

    Quote Originally Posted by srobertstx
    This is pretty significant because of the abuse those bikes are seeing.
    LOL. How in the world would you know that people are abusing them?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Don't speak too quickly.

    1. The moment has not been on the market that long so it's questionable if there has been enough use put on the stays.
    2. Initial production moments use the old stay that is prone to break after enough cycles. The new ones will be using the new stay.

    It almost seems the old stay WILL break eventually on these first run moments. That is going to be a real headache because it's likely going to be after the warranty.


    LOL. How in the world would you know that people are abusing them?
    I can see those points for sure, time will tell...eh?

    ....please it is common sense that some people are going to take a 6" travel bike off of some gnarly stuff.....maybe abuse isn't the most accurate terminology, but the moment is definitely getting a good work out!

  26. #26
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    They dont call them "Cracksworths" for nothing. It amazes me that this is still happening on a regular basis. My buddy broke three Truth's in a year and a half, back in 01'-02'. he gave up on T.E.'s customer service and ended up going with Turner and has been very happy ever since.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE,
    It amazes me that this is still happening on a regular basis. My buddy broke three Truth's in a year and a half, back in 01'-02'. he gave up on T.E.'s customer service and ended up going with Turner and has been very happy ever since.
    Another hilarious post. Lets see here;

    -Suppose 5000 bikes were sold with a weak chainstay.

    -Over 5 years, 500 of them cracked a chainstay.

    -Ellsworth figures this all out and starts making a better stay.

    Do you think some miraculous thing occurs and the remaing 4500 of them never break from here on out?

    And to add, why don't you keep up with the posts and see that Ellsworth has been top notch in the customer service dept lately. I cracked a stay and got a new generation one.

    PS: I own and love my Turner bike as well.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by srobertstx
    For the record - Ellsworth has a ZERO failure rate on the Moment frames. This is pretty significant because of the abuse those bikes are seeing.
    If you believe that I have a bridge for sale..... really cheap.

    The Moments might be doing very well, but no frame in that catagory will have a perfect record.

    The only thing you can accurately say is that YOU haven't heard of any breakages.

    This is not a slam on Ellsworth. Turner, Intense, Ventana.... all of them will have some breakage issues. What's important is that the breakage be kept to a minimum and that the company stands behind its warranty.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Rediculous post of the month. Thanks for the laugh.
    Yes, totally "rediculous."

  30. #30
    853+29+1x24=Fun
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    "And a man in my position can not affored to be made to look rediculous"

    Sorry that just popped into my head. Anybody know what movie that's from?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev0153
    "And a man in my position can not affored to be made to look rediculous"

    Sorry that just popped into my head. Anybody know what movie that's from?
    You speel as well as I do...

    It's from the Godfather. Google knew it once I spelled afford and ridiculous correctly (hence, powfiend's touche on me).

    Jack Woltz: Johnny Fontane never gets that movie. That part is perfect for him, it'll make him a big star, and I'm gonna run him out of the business - and let me tell you why: Johnny Fontane ruined one of Woltz International's most valuable proteges. For five years we had her under training - singing lessons, acting lessons, dancing lessons. I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on her, I was gonna make her a big star. And let me be even more frank, just to show you that I'm not a hard-hearted man, and that it's not all dollars and cents: She was beautiful; she was young; she was innocent. She was the greatest piece of ass I've ever had, and I've had 'em all over the world. And then Johnny Fontane comes along with his olive oil voice and guinea charm, and she runs off. She threw it all away just to make me look ridiculous! And a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous!

  32. #32
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    yep you got it. I left the spelling of ridiculous the same cuz that's what made me think of the quote. When the guy says it in the movie, it kind of comes out sounding like "rediculous". Afford was just my bad spelling

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    I cannot agree with that statement.

    I am an Ellsworth owner, never broke anything. Heck, my Truth was from 1999/2000 so that was ridden for 5 years.

    My wife's Truth did not break.

    My friend's Truth did not break and that's a 2001 model.

    So every Ellsworth owner I personally know has never broken his or her Ellsworth. Is that representative?
    I've ridden my 2003 Truth pretty hard for 3 seasons and I'm not a featherweight at 205 pounds - no breaks here. The bike is a joy to ride - climbs like a scalded monkey and handles the tight east-coast single track with ease. My only complaint is with their "maintenance free" pivot bearings, which notched up after the first season. All this talk about cracking frames is making me a little paranoid though - like I've gotta be next in line! Time will tell

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