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  1. #1
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Small or medium Epiphany?

    I am about to pull the trigger on the Epiphany and I want some suggestions on the size I should buy. I am now on an NRS Air (small) with a 22.5-inch top tube measured from center to center on a level horizontal plane. My stem is 4.5 inches Center to center. I am looking at the Ellsworth specifications and it appears that I can fit on both the 15” and the 17” frames.
    I am not quite 5’7” tall and fully loaded with backpack I weigh 157lbs. I am more of a finesse rider who likes to climb. I want the Epiphany to give me more confidence on the down hills.
    So here is the question! Do I get the 15” and get a longer stem? OR. Do I get the 17” with a shorter stem?
    You input is appreciated. And thank you in advance for your time.

  2. #2
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    Get the 15". You'll find it to be easier to handle. The geometry of the bike will give you the dh prowess you need, no matter which bike you get.

    The TT length is noted at 22.25 on the 15" so it will be similar to the Giant. But the HA will be different than the Giant and that's where the extra stability will come into play.

    What kind of parts are you specc'ing? I notice that Ellsworth upped the fork travel amount to 150mm, so you have lots of options there.

    Congrats on your new purchase by the way! And welcome!
    Last edited by chad1433; 12-29-2005 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #3
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Get the 15". You'll find it to be easier to handle. The geometry of the bike will give you the dh prowess you need, no matter which bike you get.

    The TT length is noted at 22.25 on the 15" so it will be similar to the Giant. But the HA will be different than the Giant and that's where the extra stability will come into play.

    What kind of parts are you specc'ing? I notice that Ellsworth upped the fork travel amount to 150mm, so you have lots of options there.

    Congrats on your new purchase by the way! And welcome!
    You are the second person who said the 15 will work best for me. I am building it up with basic stuff:
    Talas RLC/RP3 Shock
    Juicy Carbon
    XO Everything except
    XTR Front Derailler
    Thomson Stem & Seatpost
    RaceFace Dues Cranks
    King Headset
    Crossmax SL
    Blue Groove/Nevegal
    Mis. other stuff

    I will try to get picture of the bike and post them when I get it. But my computer skills are very poor and my assistant is out having a baby. So don't hold your breath

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    I will try to get picture of the bike and post them when I get it. But my computer skills are very poor and my assistant is out having a baby. So don't hold your breath
    Is it yours? j/k...is it?

    That looks like a great build, very solid stuff.

    I rode a medium Isis for about 3 years and then switched to a small Moment. The size difference was a positive move for me. I'm 5'7" with a 30" inseam. I lost a bit of standover, but that's because of the increased travel and different frame design. But the (marginally)smaller bike is more maneuverable and puts me in a better position with the same components.

  5. #5
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    Pach,
    You're not going to believe how light and how balanced this bike rides. BTW, that is a nice build, very similar to mine. I just wish my RP3 wasn't at Fox getting fixed after only one week of riding

  6. #6
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    Pach,
    You're not going to believe how light and how balanced this bike rides. BTW, that is a nice build, very similar to mine. I just wish my RP3 wasn't at Fox getting fixed after only one week of riding
    Thanks for the reply. You and I are similar in size so I hope that I also have a positive experience with my Epiphany.
    What was the problem with your RP3? And should I be taking any precautions so that I don’t have the same situation with my shock?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Thanks for the reply. You and I are similar in size so I hope that I also have a positive experience with my Epiphany.
    What was the problem with your RP3? And should I be taking any precautions so that I don’t have the same situation with my shock?
    Actually, I'm 6ft. tall and weigh about 175 without gear, so I am quite a bit larger than you. This frame appears to be very solid, so you'll have no worries...Other than figuring out the correct fit ...I opted to go with the medium frame instead of the large frame due to the top tube length...I think I could have gone either way though. At least yours won't look strange like mine does with all the seatpost showing.

    The RP3 trouble that I had was not related to riding, it came defective so I can't offer you any advice. I will say this though, I am (or was) having a VERY hard time feeling the difference between the Propedal modes with this frame. I hope to hear some other Epiphany owners' thoughts on this. I think it may be because the Epi's ICT is just so efficient. I will def. Push teh RP3 and RS Revelation next year.

    One more thing, go for the Hope skewers, they are beautiful.

  8. #8
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    yo pachaven, did you get this bike yet? i'm also coming from a small giant nrs (1) and agonizing over the decision between an epiphany or moment. we're very similarly sized (5'6"/150). i'm interested to hear how different the epiphany is from the nrs (besides the obvious) and if you ever rode a moment to compare it to, too. i found a dealer near (well, 3 counties over) me who has an employee who owns a small moment, so i'm gonna check that out this weekend. the dealer also has an epiphany, but it was either a medium or large, so if i do go for an epiphany, i'm probably flying blind. any insight you can give to the epiphany/moment (especially coming from a giant) decision is welcome.

  9. #9
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    ... and if we just ...

    MetalDork,
    I was not able to try the Moment, however I did get to ride the Truth for three days from my LBS. I was very impressed with the way the rear tire stuck to the ground. When I look at the way I ride, the Moment was more bike than I will use. I also like to climb but needed more confidence for the downs. The Epiphany should give me the balls to hit the drops and keep my teeth where they are .
    I have ordered the Epiphany from an out of state bike shop and they claim it will be built up and delivered in two to six weeks from 12/29/05. We will see. The bike shop called and offered a small black Epiphany for immediate delivery, but I declined the offer. I can wait for the blue frame as I still am riding my NRS Air.
    If you can wait the 2-6 weeks, I will give you my impressions of the Epiphany as compared to the Giant. Let me know.
    You should also look at the wheelbase for the bikes. My NRS Air is 41.25". The 15" Epiphany is 42.6" and the 15" Moment is a very long 43.5". When I looked at that, the Epiphany should be a big enough jump for me

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    MetalDork,
    I was not able to try the Moment, however I did get to ride the Truth for three days from my LBS. I was very impressed with the way the rear tire stuck to the ground. When I look at the way I ride, the Moment was more bike than I will use. I also like to climb but needed more confidence for the downs. The Epiphany should give me the balls to hit the drops and keep my teeth where they are .
    I have ordered the Epiphany from an out of state bike shop and they claim it will be built up and delivered in two to six weeks from 12/29/05. We will see. The bike shop called and offered a small black Epiphany for immediate delivery, but I declined the offer. I can wait for the blue frame as I still am riding my NRS Air.
    If you can wait the 2-6 weeks, I will give you my impressions of the Epiphany as compared to the Giant. Let me know.
    You should also look at the wheelbase for the bikes. My NRS Air is 41.25". The 15" Epiphany is 42.6" and the 15" Moment is a very long 43.5". When I looked at that, the Epiphany should be a big enough jump for me
    That my friend is a brutal wait time...I waited 3 months for my Epiphany, but am relieved to tell you it was well worth it. Aside from a RP3 issue (that has been resolved through Fox) the bike has been great.

  11. #11
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Thanks PainPusher!

    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    That my friend is a brutal wait time...I waited 3 months for my Epiphany, but am relieved to tell you it was well worth it. Aside from a RP3 issue (that has been resolved through Fox) the bike has been great.
    I am trying not to become too anxious or excited over this new toy. I am on my NRS and my Ti single speed hard tail often to help keep my mind off of the Epiphany. My mantra for now is “It will get here when it gets here”. So until then, life as usual.

  12. #12
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    did the dimensions change on the moment for 06? according to the ellsworth website, the wheelbase for the 15" moment is 42". that gives the epiphany a longer wheelbase but steeper angles. that would still put your weight farther over the front wheel wouldn't it, though not as bad as the giant. in any case, the choice for me is 05 moment vs 06 epiphany.

    the epiphany, at least on paper, seems like it would fit my riding style to a t. the biggest strike against it that i see (of course never having ridden one) is i don't like buying the first of anything. especially one that includes a new manufacturing plant and process. with ellsworth's history, that makes me nervous. i'd rather they worked out the bugs in both the design and plant before i spent that kind of cash.

  13. #13
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    did the dimensions change on the moment for 06? according to the ellsworth website, the wheelbase for the 15" moment is 42". that gives the epiphany a longer wheelbase but steeper angles. that would still put your weight farther over the front wheel wouldn't it, though not as bad as the giant. in any case, the choice for me is 05 moment vs 06 epiphany.

    the epiphany, at least on paper, seems like it would fit my riding style to a t. the biggest strike against it that i see (of course never having ridden one) is i don't like buying the first of anything. especially one that includes a new manufacturing plant and process. with ellsworth's history, that makes me nervous. i'd rather they worked out the bugs in both the design and plant before i spent that kind of cash.
    I was looking at the new catalog when I wrote you the dimensions on my last post. I have not looked at the web site to compare the two.
    I also was skeptical about being one of the first out of the gate. But for me at this time in my life I don't want to regret not getting the bike I WANT. So, What the F*#k! If I have problems with the bike, I will deal with them at that time.
    I work with a geriatric population and day in and day out they say the same thing to me “Mark, it seams like yesterday that I was your age and now I am in this wheel chair. Life is short, don’t waste it” So I live my life with no regrets.
    Hope that helps!

  14. #14
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Hot off the press!

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    did the dimensions change on the moment for 06? according to the ellsworth website, the wheelbase for the 15" moment is 42". that gives the epiphany a longer wheelbase but steeper angles. that would still put your weight farther over the front wheel wouldn't it, though not as bad as the giant. in any case, the choice for me is 05 moment vs 06 epiphany.

    the epiphany, at least on paper, seems like it would fit my riding style to a t. the biggest strike against it that i see (of course never having ridden one) is i don't like buying the first of anything. especially one that includes a new manufacturing plant and process. with ellsworth's history, that makes me nervous. i'd rather they worked out the bugs in both the design and plant before i spent that kind of cash.
    I just got off the telephone with Paul at Ellsworth customer service. I pointed out the difference you noticed on the web site as compared to the catalog. Paul said that the catalog is more correct. Apparently in a rush to get the catalog out to the printer and to Mountain Bike Action some of the specifications are incorrect. The Epiphany’s stated wheelbases are correct in the catalog assuming a 130MM fork and a 495MM axel to crown measurement.
    The correct Moment wheelbases are found in the catalog not on the web site. The only correction on the catalog should be the measurements are based on a 150MM fork with a 520MM axel to crown height.
    So when you look at the wheelbase with the recommended fork lengths, the Moment is quite a jump from our NRS bikes.
    Do you know what Paul means when he uses an axel to crown measurement?

  15. #15
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    Axle to crown of the fork...most manufacturers have different A to C heights for the same travel length. So it's not quite accurate to measure the HA based on the the fork's travel but on it's A to C height which is more definitive of a forks effect on the bike.

    Most fork companies have this info on their websites for a given fork.

  16. #16
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    medium or small?

    I have the same problem, I ride the Stumpjumper Anniversary size meduim
    I weight 140 lbs(with out gear) my high is 5'.5" and mt inseam is 32".
    What size API should I buy M/S?
    thanks

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    I notice that Ellsworth upped the fork travel amount to 150mm, so you have lots of options there.
    do you think its not a mistake 150mm travel for the front fork?
    on their catalog they say its 105-130mm.

  18. #18
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    Well, the rear travel is 133mm. Going with a 150mm fork would give you a 69 degree HA, roughly; raise the BB a little. It's only 17mm more travel than the rear, little more than 1/2 an inch. I'd say it would work out okay. I'd run a Pike or an AM 1 on this bike, if it was mine.

  19. #19
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by gevaa
    I have the same problem, I ride the Stumpjumper Anniversary size meduim
    I weight 140 lbs(with out gear) my high is 5'.5" and mt inseam is 32".
    What size API should I buy M/S?
    thanks
    Gevaa,
    Trying to choose the correct size frame was a difficult decision. However I was able to ride a medium Truth for the three days that was a demo from my LBS. I have to say that the medium was on the long side for me. That is why I choose the small Epiphany. I am just a shade under 5’7” with a 33” inseam. Given that I am just that little bit larger than you and the fact that the Ellsworth catalog recommends a 15” inch for you, my recommendation would be a small frame for your size. You will also get the added benefit of being able to nail any switchbacks you encounter with the smaller frame.

    Any other input from riders more versed that I would be helpful to Gevaa

  20. #20
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    You are the second person who said the 15 will work best for me. I am building it up with basic stuff:
    Talas RLC/RP3 Shock
    Juicy Carbon
    XO Everything except
    XTR Front Derailler
    Thomson Stem & Seatpost
    RaceFace Dues Cranks
    King Headset
    Crossmax SL
    Blue Groove/Nevegal
    Mis. other stuff

    I will try to get picture of the bike and post them when I get it. But my computer skills are very poor and my assistant is out having a baby. So don't hold your breath
    Just got a call from the shop that is building up my Epiphany. They claim the frame was shipped from Ellsworth on 1/12/06 and that they have all of the parts to build it up except for the Juicy Carbons. They claim that the supplier has the Carbons on back order and the ETA is undetermined at this time. So they asked if I would accept any other brake.

    Two questions:
    1. Should I wait for the Juicy Carbons?
    If not-
    2. What brake should I consider and will it cost more or less than the Carbons?

    Thanks for any help you can provide.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Just got a call from the shop that is building up my Epiphany. They claim the frame was shipped from Ellsworth on 1/12/06 and that they have all of the parts to build it up except for the Juicy Carbons. They claim that the supplier has the Carbons on back order and the ETA is undetermined at this time. So they asked if I would accept any other brake.

    Two questions:
    1. Should I wait for the Juicy Carbons?
    If not-
    2. What brake should I consider and will it cost more or less than the Carbons?

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
    Magura Marta SLs, Hope Mono Minis or Formula Oro...mmm, Italian styling...So there you have it, a plethora of EU engineering to slow you down.

  22. #22
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    You can also go with just the regular Juicy 7. I don't think there's a meaningful weight saving with the Juicy Carbon. They are virtually the same brakes except for the carbon levers and carbon reservoir caps, Ti CPS bolts and machined aluminum dials instead of the regular platic red dials. More bling but not that much weight saving.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Gevaa,
    Trying to choose the correct size frame was a difficult decision. However I was able to ride a medium Truth for the three days that was a demo from my LBS. I have to say that the medium was on the long side for me. That is why I choose the small Epiphany. I am just a shade under 5’7” with a 33” inseam. Given that I am just that little bit larger than you and the fact that the Ellsworth catalog recommends a 15” inch for you, my recommendation would be a small frame for your size. You will also get the added benefit of being able to nail any switchbacks you encounter with the smaller frame.

    Any other input from riders more versed that I would be helpful to Gevaa
    You guys most likely will need a small frame. You guys have long inseams for your height. I'm 5' 7" and my true inseam is only 30" and I don't think I have short legs for my height (True inseam meaning measured with feet 8 inches apart and a booked pushed up the crotch). With your long inseams should mean that your reach shouldn't be that long so small should be right. Well...unless you have really long arms.

  24. #24
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    epiphany sizing

    Hi, does anyone own a medium epiphany sst2 which they could measure for me? I have a few dimensions I'm curious about. Namely, they say they lowered the BB to 12.3" for 2012, but I've heard that this isn't true. Also, there is no reach measurement on the website.

    To calculate reach, you take a piece of string with something heavy on it so it becomes a plumb line, and run it down from the middle of the top of the head tube (not the headset or stem... the top of the head tube part of the frame itself, right in the middle of the circular opening of the head tube), drop this line down vertically, and then measure the distance from the BB to the string, horizontally, parallel to the ground.

    Here's a diagram of reach:
    bikegeo.muha.cc/
    It's the top red line that measures horizontal distance from the BB to the Head Tube.

    Can anyone do this for me on an Epiphany SST2? Medium frame is preferred but I would take specs on this for a large or small too.

    Thanks.

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