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Thread: New 2006 Dare

  1. #1
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    New 2006 Dare

    I have owned 2 Dares in my career riding on the Shore. I had a 2000 and a 2002. Loved them both but my 2003 Foes Fly is better.

    The new Dare with the internal transmission.................. Are you kidding?

    More work, higher cost, more maintainence (when it breaks down) more weight. Dumb, dumb, dumb Tony.

    I wouldn't buy it even with my biases. Sometimes just refining is better than wholesale change. The other models look good (I prefer anodized) but this new Dare is going to be nothing but headaches. You don't see Ellsworth on the Shore much anymore (due to major problems with the rear ends on the Jokers) but this Dare will be expensive, heavy and rare. Really bad decision making. It does not even use Ellsworth own patened ICT. Pathetic.

    Thank god for choice because it would be my last one.

  2. #2
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    You should look at the posting on the Dare. The gearbox idea is a future prototype. You might check with Ellsworth before panicking...or you could panic. Whichever. The new catalog should be up on the website soon...

  3. #3
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    Concept DH Proto

    As far as I was told, that frame at the show is a concept bike. I don't know why it had the Dare logo on it, other than it was a DH frame. The frame was assembled hours before the show. The Gearbox wasn't even operating. If that bike ever hit production, it probably wouldn't happen for a year or two.

    If you want a shore bike from Ellsworth, check out the Rogue. Basically it's the Dare set up, with steeper FR geo, and a more traditional 3 tube front assem.

    Ellsworth had a couple Rogues set up at dirt demo with a Fox 36 on it. I thought it made the ST too steep, but I adjusted the saddle a little more rearward on the rails and all was good. I'm thinking, this may be the replacement for my aging Id. The Epiphany or Moment seems sweet as well, but I had a chance to ride a pre 2000 Dare in Moab and loved it's suspension and braking performance. Hmmm... winter project?

  4. #4
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    The new frames are still anodized. Just not shot peened

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    Take a chill pill dude!

    That's right, it's not even a proto type...IT IS A CONCEPT BIKE.

    The gear box is empty with nothing inside. It's about as real as a cardboard prop!

    Put down that coffee mug!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    Take a chill pill dude!

    That's right, it's not even a proto type...IT IS A CONCEPT BIKE.

    The gear box is empty with nothing inside. It's about as real as a cardboard prop!

    Put down that coffee mug!
    Obviously you are an idiot.

    First and foremost, whether the bike is working or not NO company goes through the expenditure and time to make the "prototype" unless it works to some degree. The internal transmission is the Hayes version, which was bought from Petespeed seen in the B1 downhill bike last year. If you think this is simply a cardboard prop then I think you need to wake up.

    This is a prototype. Look at what the Honda RN01 is doing and see how others respond. Ellsworth is simply trying to catch up, which is understandable, but don't for one minute think this is simply artwork for display. You will see it, in limited numbers, but it will be real. But already I have pointed out the foolishness of this ideal and hope that it is only a joke to gauge response rather than show what is coming. Of course, I am sure riders such as yourself would scoop up such frames without thinking of the long term consequences but all companies rely on such impulse buying to recoup R+D costs. Be my guest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    Obviously you are an idiot.

    First and foremost, whether the bike is working or not NO company goes through the expenditure and time to make the "prototype" unless it works to some degree. The internal transmission is the Hayes version, which was bought from Petespeed seen in the B1 downhill bike last year. If you think this is simply a cardboard prop then I think you need to wake up.

    This is a prototype. Look at what the Honda RN01 is doing and see how others respond. Ellsworth is simply trying to catch up, which is understandable, but don't for one minute think this is simply artwork for display. You will see it, in limited numbers, but it will be real. But already I have pointed out the foolishness of this ideal and hope that it is only a joke to gauge response rather than show what is coming. Of course, I am sure riders such as yourself would scoop up such frames without thinking of the long term consequences but all companies rely on such impulse buying to recoup R+D costs. Be my guest.
    Wow, I too thought name calling was such an effective way to win an argument...when I was 12 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    Wow, I too thought name calling was such an effective way to win an argument...when I was 12 years old.
    Interesting. Your original linguistics pegged you at 12, so I guess I was effective. I cannot be guilty of namecalling in the case of obvious truth (pun intended for the so inclined). My victory will be heeded when it is realized that the cost of the Dare bike, with internal transmission, is so high as to exclude most, and with upkeep and difficulty of repair high as well it will not nearly be so highly regarded as the name "DARE" eludes too. Again, I had 2 so I know what I am talking about. I also live and ride the Shore and I am sorry to report that the majority of bikes here are simple, not complicated designs. There are no INTENSE bikes here. I had an UZZI DH but it was not strong enough to survive. I sold it after 2 months to get a Dare. I know what works and does not in the toughest environments. That does not mean I am the best rider, but I am informed.

    I would almost make a case that any bike here on the Shore be but single speed as shifting is incidental but not on a racecourse. But to be on a racecourse inplies financial backing beyond the hobbiest of which most are. Therefore the only serious buyers for an internal transmission race Dare are racers, not users like you or I and therefore the longevity factor, so prominent in all previous Dares, can be ignored as cost is not an issue.

    Logical?

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    Do you not think it logical that the gearbox would be an option? Such as choosing between a coil or an air shock (albeit much more expensive)?

    It would seem to be more logical than scrapping their only DH frame.

    Grant

  10. #10
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    "Oh my god! A bike with suspension front and a rear! And lookie at this!! Derailleurs front AND rear! Blasphemy! This complicated design will never work at The Shore Where I Know It All!!!"

    It`s called evolution. Simple.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol/frost
    "Oh my god! A bike with suspension front and a rear! And lookie at this!! Derailleurs front AND rear! Blasphemy! This complicated design will never work at The Shore Where I Know It All!!!"

    It`s called evolution. Simple.
    It may be evolution, and probably so. But unless you live in Vancouver don't tell me what does and does not work on the Shore unless you live here. I was born and raised on Mt Fromme my entire life and have been riding (or hiking) that mountain most of my capable life. I have seen it all and I can tell you what works and what doesn't for a Shore bike. Banshee bikes (and I don't even own one) is a far better Shore machine than the new Dare. But I would expect such responses from someone who doesn't ride here rain, snow, night or day.

    The more complicated the design, the greater the chance of breakdown and thus lack of riding. Where do you get parts, or are you able to work on it yourself. Current Dares are easy to work with, but the internal transmission design is not so inclined. Trust me, I know. Try working on a Rohloff Speedhub and you will clearly understand.

  12. #12
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    QUOTE]I have owned 2 Dares in my career riding on the Shore. I had a 2000 and a 2002. Loved them both but my 2003 Foes Fly is better.

    The new Dare with the internal transmission.................. Are you kidding?

    More work, higher cost, more maintainence (when it breaks down) more weight. Dumb, dumb, dumb Tony.

    I wouldn't buy it even with my biases. Sometimes just refining is better than wholesale change. The other models look good (I prefer anodized) but this new Dare is going to be nothing but headaches. You don't see Ellsworth on the Shore much anymore (due to major problems with the rear ends on the Jokers) but this Dare will be expensive, heavy and rare. Really bad decision making. It does not even use Ellsworth own patened ICT. Pathetic.

    Thank god for choice because it would be my last one.[/QUOTE] <o =""></o>
    Here we go again is it me or are there more and more plonkers getting online!
    <o =""></o>
    Read yr own comments they make no sense at all, you started well with 2000 & 02 Dare, and it all went downhill from there scuse the pun.

    <o =""></o>This is a CONCEPT bike! Um where have you read this is the 06 model and who says there won’t be an option for a standard Dare, just like comments the DARE is dead, really these assumptions are a fact of dead brain cells from too many crashes, drugs or too much time on yr hands or yr just another E basher.<o ="">
    </o>
    Have yr opinion but don’t expect anyone to take this seriously unless theyre on the same stuff yr on. There may be many reasons why E isn’t on the Shore anymore, more than likely the Dare is no longer suitable, since its now a dedicated downhill bike, everything moves on. The Dare was ahead of its time 5 years ago.. Others have caught up or may suit riders style better nothing wrong with that.<o ="">
    </o>
    There is now a dedicated Freeride bike called the Rogue sure you have heard of it, this will allow more flexibility in the line up for those wanting to choose a frame for there discipline surely this would be the bike for the Shore if the brain was in gear and people specced it correctly which is another whole Phenom of itself?<o ="">
    </o>This should allow E to explore other options. makes since to me and will no doubt make for an interesting future, esspecialy as everything will come from the new factory, also there are custome options, Im sure those who want a standard finish like in 05 could get if they wanted it or paid for it.


    It is never bad to try new things only to be a critic with out being an informed one at that,

    I’m sure you do know or have some clues, so I take it this is really just another slurge at Tony and Ellsworth, those that know really don’t care.
    <o =""></o>
    Enjoy yr Foes..
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    QUOTE]I have owned 2 Dares in my career riding on the Shore. I had a 2000 and a 2002. Loved them both but my 2003 Foes Fly is better.

    The new Dare with the internal transmission.................. Are you kidding?

    More work, higher cost, more maintainence (when it breaks down) more weight. Dumb, dumb, dumb Tony.

    I wouldn't buy it even with my biases. Sometimes just refining is better than wholesale change. The other models look good (I prefer anodized) but this new Dare is going to be nothing but headaches. You don't see Ellsworth on the Shore much anymore (due to major problems with the rear ends on the Jokers) but this Dare will be expensive, heavy and rare. Really bad decision making. It does not even use Ellsworth own patened ICT. Pathetic.

    Thank god for choice because it would be my last one.
    <o =""></o>
    Here we go again is it me or are there more and more plonkers getting online!
    <o =""></o>
    Read yr own comments they make no sense at all, you started well with 2000 & 02 Dare, and it all went downhill from there scuse the pun.

    <o =""></o>This is a CONCEPT bike! Um where have you read this is the 06 model and who says there won’t be an option for a standard Dare, just like comments the DARE is dead, really these assumptions are a fact of dead brain cells from too many crashes, drugs or too much time on yr hands or yr just another E basher.<o ="">
    </o>
    Have yr opinion but don’t expect anyone to take this seriously unless theyre on the same stuff yr on. There may be many reasons why E isn’t on the Shore anymore, more than likely the Dare is no longer suitable, since its now a dedicated downhill bike, everything moves on. The Dare was ahead of its time 5 years ago.. Others have caught up or may suit riders style better nothing wrong with that.<o ="">
    </o>
    There is now a dedicated Freeride bike called the Rogue sure you have heard of it, this will allow more flexibility in the line up for those wanting to choose a frame for there discipline surely this would be the bike for the Shore if the brain was in gear and people specced it correctly which is another whole Phenom of itself?<o ="">
    </o>This should allow E to explore other options. makes since to me and will no doubt make for an interesting future, esspecialy as everything will come from the new factory, also there are custome options, Im sure those who want a standard finish like in 05 could get if they wanted it or paid for it.


    It is never bad to try new things only to be a critic with out being an informed one at that,

    I’m sure you do know or have some clues, so I take it this is really just another slurge at Tony and Ellsworth, those that know really don’t care.
    <o =""></o>
    Enjoy yr Foes..[/QUOTE]

    Again, I love people who assume they know their facts but really don't. If you don't live and ride here, then don't assume anything.

    Downhill bikes are most popular on the Shore for strength and longevity. Freeride bikes, mostly, are marketing ploys to get your money. Ellsworth's are not seen here for obvious reasons: (1)cost. The Banshee Scream may not exactly be like the Dare, but it is cheaper and far stronger. I can directly compare (2)breakage problems with older Jokers. The rear ends broke at the pivots and no one wants a bike with a structural flaw (3)ease of trial. The only dealer (On Top Bikes, my LBS) dropped Ellsworths as they had unreasonable dealer requests and if there are none to try, no one, at their price, is going to buy an Ellsworth untested.

    I loved my Dares. The rear end was linear in rate, and I could not get the bike to be plush and ramp up on big hits. By the time better rear shocks came around, it was easier and cheaper to sell the Dare and get a Fly. The resale on my Dare, by the way, was horrible. I am an older, mature rider and take IMMACULATE care of my gear and I did not get NEARLY what I wanted for it. There was no interest. In fact, the only inquiry I got was the sale, and he sold it a year later.

    I love Ellsworths myself. The build quality is excellent, design is sound and it works, especially better with new shock technology. This is why the 06 Dare rubs me the wrong way. All that time, energy and cost into something that doesn't need reinventing but simply improving.

  14. #14
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    Again, I love people who assume they know their facts but really don't. If you don't live and ride here, then don't assume anything. Downhill bikes are most popular on the Shore for strength and longevity. Freeride bikes, mostly, are marketing ploys to get your money. Ellsworth's are not seen here for obvious reasons: (1)cost. The Banshee Scream may not exactly be like the Dare, but it is cheaper and far stronger. I can directly compare (2)breakage problems with older Jokers. The rear ends broke at the pivots and no one wants a bike with a structural flaw (3)ease of trial. The only dealer (On Top Bikes, my LBS) dropped Ellsworths as they had unreasonable dealer requests and if there are none to try, no one, at their price, is going to buy an Ellsworth untested. I loved my Dares. The rear end was linear in rate, and I could not get the bike to be plush and ramp up on big hits. By the time better rear shocks came around, it was easier and cheaper to sell the Dare and get a Fly. The resale on my Dare, by the way, was horrible. I am an older, mature rider and take IMMACULATE care of my gear and I did not get NEARLY what I wanted for it. There was no interest. In fact, the only inquiry I got was the sale, and he sold it a year later. I love Ellsworths myself. The build quality is excellent, design is sound and it works, especially better with new shock technology. This is why the 06 Dare rubs me the wrong way. All that time, energy and cost into something that doesn't need reinventing but simply improving.
    Dude you don't sound like an older dude unless youre getting a bit dottery!

    First you say the Shore is popular for Downhill bikes not freeride bikes!
    This may be true, I won't argue you would know! Yet most footage Ive seen of the Shore has dudes on freeride bikes with 66s sure Ive seen DH bikes too are we nit picking here, I won't argue with you on this as I don't live there, so I'll go with your facts here!

    YET YOU have a Fly am I wrong in assuming? this is not a downhill bike but a freeride bike??????????????? Get the picture!

    You don't make sense, why bring up the Joker when you are biatching about some concept bike you know nothing about it or its purpose, it may not even come to production, what is learned maybe incorporated into other desgins of future DAREs.
    Wether you like it or not internal gearbox's could be the future of DH/FR bikes, if it costs too much you shouldn't be on an Ellsworth anyway get a Kona, save me Lorna how many times do we ride this one, this is a boutique bike brand! YAWN

    As to the joker why biatch about it anyway whats it got to do with the Dare Concept bike, to me the Joker wouldn't be the first bike Id ride on the Shore either but people used to ride hardtails there too, people choose do do what they want don't blame the game blame the player!

    The Dare came with 2 configs (swingarms) to suit peoples style!
    now they have the Rogue and I'm sure it'll be a winner if it rides half as good as it looks, I'd ride this on the Shore, other choice would be a VPX Intense, when I come over next year!

    Either youre a why not guy or a why guy! Filler er up bro and ride, stop biatching about something you haven't ridden seen touched or will likely never own.

    Or get the current Dare since you like it soo much and come up with something constructive or go back to the Foes forum and be negitive over there!

    Peace and ride to enjoy leave the crap behind in the City we don't know how lucky we are!
    Last edited by trailadvent; 10-09-2005 at 04:17 PM.
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  15. #15
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    What a string of posts, I cannot believe it started from an older mature dude, so you say you are. Just to leap out of the gate and curse and spew about a concept bike/frame. Dude it is CONCEPT, this is built to learn from, it is not going to be a production bike. Flippen heck. Dude take a chill pill. These internal gearbox set-ups will more than likely be the future. Why didnt they stay with a pushrod V8, it is evolution. Do you still own a horse and cart?

    You mention that those who dont live on the shore should have no opinion, are all the dvd's etc, just bollocks, do they not give us any insight to what is being ridden on the shore.

    I have my armour on, I know you are going to come back at me like a hard hitting big fella.

    Chill out dude, go have a rub down, your body will thank you.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    What a string of posts, I cannot believe it started from an older mature dude, so you say you are. Just to leap out of the gate and curse and spew about a concept bike/frame. Dude it is CONCEPT, this is built to learn from, it is not going to be a production bike. Flippen heck. Dude take a chill pill. These internal gearbox set-ups will more than likely be the future. Why didnt they stay with a pushrod V8, it is evolution. Do you still own a horse and cart?

    You mention that those who dont live on the shore should have no opinion, are all the dvd's etc, just bollocks, do they not give us any insight to what is being ridden on the shore.

    I have my armour on, I know you are going to come back at me like a hard hitting big fella.

    Chill out dude, go have a rub down, your body will thank you.
    As I have mentioned this before, no company in the bike industry comes out with a concept bike without it coming to the market after initial workthrough and exposure. It is not cost effective, especially with smaller bike makers, to make an expensive prototype and then not use it. It makes no business sense that you younger riders will learn someday. Whether the transmission was real or not on THAT bike Hayes IS making them and that is what Ellsworth will use. It also makes no financial sense to lmake a prototype that you have to pay out a licensing fee to use (Ellsworth is not the patent holder of the internal transmission design).

    The Fly itself may be a freeride bike by marketing, but it is actually a DH bike by design. The Mono is already in that slot and no company tries to compete with itself especially considering the success of the Mono. Freeride bikes, as labelled, are generally lighter and more nimble (in theory) than the Fly but I have not found this to be true.

    But I do find it interesting that the issues I raise with the prototype have been overlooked, but that is too be expected.

    Most amusing is no one understanding that I LIKE Ellsworth, despite the fact I have a Foes. Ellsworth bikes are well made, strong and pleasing on the eye. In my case, at the time, the Fly represented the ideal of what I wanted and was looking for. The new Fly, for 06, is nice but not as nice as mine as the rear end hub requirements are not universal. I could go back to the Dare, with a platform shock, but it will not be with an internal transmission

    Considering the response, I think I will get down to a direct comparison, warts and all, of Ellsworth and Foes, after having both I can compare. You might find more similiarities than differences.

  17. #17
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    I don't understand the point of this, really.

    Concept bikes, like cars, sometimes never make it to market. But the internal transmission on DH bikes is being tested and proven so I think that Ellsworth is just trying to get into the market, or test the market, now that they have a factory where they can produce concept frames more easily. If this is the only frame of its kind, effectively, they have not lost a lot of money on R & D. It certainly has caused a lot of buzz around here (and other forums) so maybe that's the point.

    As far as the Shore goes, many companies don't make bikes that are designed for the Shore. Essentially, they'll get more sales out of bikes that a larger market segment can ride. Since their niche has been the enduro-racing Truth, it seems that that is where they'll continue to hang their proverbial hat in the Epiphany. There are other manufacturers that make better shore bikes (and cheaper, too), so why not let them do it? I think maybe the Dare was a good fit at one time, but wasn't intended to be a Shore specific bike. Since DH racing is something that will be done all over the world, it seems that Ellsworth is eyeing that market and progressing their DH bike where others will go (RN01, Giant).

  18. #18
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    I agree Chad with you 100%, but Blackfly here feels strongly that a concept bike must come to production, this is not so. Ellsworth in this case a doing R&D, this is what keeps a company ahead.

    Blackfly, no one on this board is knocking you for knocking Ellsworth, we know you like the bikes. For me it was your comments re this concept Dare.

    Its all good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  19. #19
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    Black Fly its not an apples for apples comparison this is the breakdown in your argument.
    Also you assume too much myself I have no idea what plans E has, Chadd is quiet correct.
    Wait and see, ride something comparitive and make coments, I think thats all most of us ask.

    Most of the BS on these forums come from misinformation based on little or no fact, or so called alias's who are dreamers sitting in front of PCs in there nappies check out the DH forum they grow on trees over there!

    Comparisons should be informative and justified not just spouted off from the mouth, I would have thought this would have come from a mature adult like yourself.

    Example, you don't compare a 1.9 inch XC tyre for speed to a 2.3 freeride tyre obvously there is a difference, as there are different traits that suit various bikes rider style trail conditions temperature etc etc etc, these must all be realitive other wise the statement has no bearing!

    This is often misunderstood for E loyalty yet all most of us ask is stick to the facts not assupmtions fiction or bs!

    Ps peace & enjoy the Shore!

    "its not about the bike its about the ride"
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