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  1. #1
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    moment sizing question

    called up my local dealer looking to test a small moment yesterday. i'm 5'6" and dude insisted medium was the correct size for me and small would be way too small. normally, i go right for the small and it works well. i liked the bike and really liked where i sat over the pedals and rear wheel and i didn't feel stretched out. but the front end definitely felt too big, especially with the fork fully extended. also, there was absolutely no stand over clearance. is it normal for the moment to ride high in the front end? i also kind of suspect that he just wanted to get rid of the medium cuz it's an 05. but that might just be me being suspicious. in any case, i'm definitely gonna try and ride a small before buying, just looking for some outside advice.

  2. #2
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    I test rode the small first and found it to be more inline with my true size. I'm 5'7" and was riding a med Isis. The Isis was stretched out, but not too much. That frame has great standover clearence.

    The med Moment looked long to me, so I didn't even ride it. The front end is going to be tall no matter what size you get because the BB is tall, the HA is slack and the bike requires at least a 130mm fork (it needs more).

    I'd recommend the small. Just my $.02. Generally, Ellsworth bikes run a bit long.

  3. #3
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    I would normally ride a "large" bike, but went with the 17" Epiphany, and while I have a mile of seatpost exposed, the fit is great.

    I'd say this, don't torment yourself, be patient, find a small and ride one, and then you'll know for sure. I had no choice, no one has an Epiphany yet so I was left taking a gamble. And believe me I have some grey hairs from the mental anquish of the decision.

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  4. #4
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    Unless you have long reach, I doubt you'll need a medium. I'm 5' 7" w/ 30" inseam and ride a small. My small frame has 90mm stem and a setback seat post.

    I almost went with a medium because it was more stretched out and closer to the XC style riding position that I was used to, but the top tube was just a bit long and it was hard to do a manual on it. The small was much more manuverable for me.

    The stand over on the small is not going to be that much better than the medium, regardless of the difference in measurement. So forget that and just concentrate on the right top tube length.

  5. #5
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    not in a rush, so i'll definitely be trying out a small before i buy. i also realized that the front end might feel big because of the 150mm fork that was on it. maybe i felt comfortable with the top tube because i'm used to riding xc, also.

    btw, also was very heavy. we weighed it and it came in at 36 or 37 pounds! i saw in the setup database that people are getting it down around 29 pounds? how do you take that much weight off?

  6. #6
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    First you start with $, and then you add in a little $$, and for the final step, you unleash a wopping $$$. And then you start over

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    First you start with $, and then you add in a little $$, and for the final step, you unleash a wopping $$$. And then you start over
    Ain't that the truth!

    That bike was probably built w/ some free ride oriented components.

  8. #8
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    Sizing.and Weight.

    Depends entirely on what you really want the bike to do for you.?
    The beuty of the moment is that you can run it heavier and it will be great,or you can run it lighter and it will be equally fantastic.Use lighter components that are still strong.I run the lightest 150mm air fork from Pace.Axel to crown is only about 525mm so it doesnt make the front stupid tall.Its also incredibly plush for an air fork.Also have a DHX Air fitted.I also run med weight rims but really light hubs from DT Swiss.Its all light but vey reliable!(so far) .
    In regard to sizing I am 5ft 7" with an inseam of 32" and have reasonably long arms.I run a Medium with a 70mm stem.I find this easy to manhandle the bike should I need to,but also keep her down on the climbs.Ihave a shorter stem for when I go freeride mode(plus heavier wheelset and awaiting rc2 fork.)
    So you can have your cake and eat it.
    BB wont feel high if you have ever been near an Id or have ridden a 'freeride' hardtail.
    Bottom Line is I like a long top tube for relaxed stretch,but the short stem allows me to manual and manouver the bike very easily.Did the bike you rode have an inline seatpost?
    There is as I am sure you are aware,an awful lot to consider.

  9. #9
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    Building the Moment in a 5" configuration is going to have a big difference, too. The RP3 is one of the lightest shocks on the market, if not THE lightest. Couple that with a nice light Revelation or Float and you can save about 2-3lbs.

    I think, if I could start over, I might go DHX-Air/AM SL, but I don't really have my current set up broken in yet. I've always liked coil shocks for their suppleness but many of the current air options are pretty good.

  10. #10
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    Make sure the Moment (6") is REALLY what you need, a quik looksie at the 'ol Epiphany (5.25") may be benifitial for you if you really want to go light and are on the fence with 5"/6".

    But...if 6" really IS what you need, then disregard everything I just said. The Moment does ride super nice.

  11. #11
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    I think you're right to wait for a ride on a small. My medium is a good fit and i'm 5'10. The top tube on my bike is longer (slightly) than my large Santa Cruz BLT. Check Ellsworth's website, if you haven't already, because they give recommended heights / sizes info. You have to be carefull with some makers sizing, but i think Ellsworth has it right.
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

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    of course i'm not 100% sure what i want yet. but what i am sure of is that the giant nrs i've been riding the last four seasons is completely inappropriate for the trails (northeast technical) i ride and the kind of rider i want to be. and that knowledge has only come recently when i expanded my riding group and tried out a couple of different bikes on the trails. i don't do drops or anything, but would like to and also need more stability/confidence on the techincal downhills. the other bikes i've tried on the trail are a 5 spot and blur and i also want to check out a yeti 575 before deciding. the blur is already out because of the short top tube. i might keep the giant for racing, but this would be my everything else bike. i'm not a weight weenie, but 37 pounds is definitely excessive. i have looked at the ellsworth website and i'm in the grey zone between sizes. the 70 degree head angle worries me a bit on the epiphany as does the high bottom bracket on the moment, but at least pedalling around the block i felt stable on the moment and didn't notice any significant bob. the shop was also offering the frame for a really good price, which makes it more attractive.

  13. #13
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    I have a medium. I am 5'7" or a bit more with my cleats with a 30" inseam. I looked for a small but could not pass up the offer for the medium. It turns out that it feels great. Now, if you put me on a small size frame would I feel even better? Who knows, but I am not going to find out cause I can't have that in my head everytime I go for a ride from now on.

    I think we work around what we ride a lot but I do agree that you should find the close to perfect fit before yoy buy.
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  14. #14
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    The difference in the Med and Sm was about 1" of TT length and an additional inch of wheelbase length on the Med over the Sm. This makes for a more stable bike DH. I'm not sure if there is a standover difference, but I don't think so.

  15. #15
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    of course i'm not 100% sure what i want yet. but what i am sure of is that the giant nrs i've been riding the last four seasons is completely inappropriate for the trails (northeast technical) i ride and the kind of rider i want to be. and that knowledge has only come recently when i expanded my riding group and tried out a couple of different bikes on the trails. i don't do drops or anything, but would like to and also need more stability/confidence on the techincal downhills. the other bikes i've tried on the trail are a 5 spot and blur and i also want to check out a yeti 575 before deciding. the blur is already out because of the short top tube. i might keep the giant for racing, but this would be my everything else bike. i'm not a weight weenie, but 37 pounds is definitely excessive. i have looked at the ellsworth website and i'm in the grey zone between sizes. the 70 degree head angle worries me a bit on the epiphany as does the high bottom bracket on the moment, but at least pedalling around the block i felt stable on the moment and didn't notice any significant bob. the shop was also offering the frame for a really good price, which makes it more attractive.
    All right metal, It sounds like you have 4 bikes to consider:

    1- Ells Moment (6")
    2- Ells Epiphnay (5.25")
    3- Yeti 575 (5.75")
    4- Titus Moto-Lite (4" & 5")

    I've tried the 1st 3 but from what I've heard the Moto-Lite is worthy of falling into this batch too. The ells & 575 both pedal so efficiently, the good thing is that you really have a choice of 4 top-notch frames from which you can do no wrong with. So, try to ride these 4 bikes, b/c what they have to offer from one another is differfnt geometry. I love my Epiphany but I think i'd be just as happy with a 575 too. Bikes 1-3 are scarey stiff!

    Lastly, Don't let the 70 degree head angle of the Epi scare you, I've never ridden a more balanced or better handling bike, it really has changed my life.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    it really has changed my life.
    Whoa! You...don't...sleep with it do you?

    (we're thinking of getting a bigger bed so the bike isn't left out... )

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    i notice you "conveniently" left out the 5 spot, which i have also tested. but i won't get into that discussion. moto lite is more of a straight xc bike, isn't it?

    according to the dimensions posted on the ellsworth website, there is a 1.5" standover height difference between med and small. that's pretty significant. but it also says that the standover on the medium is 28.5" and i should be able to clear that, which i couldn't. by way of comparison, i just measured the standover on my giant at 30" which i can clear, but snugly in bare feet and i was wearing boots on the ellsworth with about the same amount of clearance. i measured standover just in front of the nose of the seat. does ellsworth measure theirs at the seat tube?

    while we're on the subject does anybody know the standover and bb height for the epiphany? all the ellsworth site says is +17.8 and +.5 respectively.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    i notice you "conveniently" left out the 5 spot, which i have also tested. but i won't get into that discussion. moto lite is more of a straight xc bike, isn't it?

    according to the dimensions posted on the ellsworth website, there is a 1.5" standover height difference between med and small. that's pretty significant. but it also says that the standover on the medium is 28.5" and i should be able to clear that, which i couldn't. by way of comparison, i just measured the standover on my giant at 30" which i can clear, but snugly in bare feet and i was wearing boots on the ellsworth with about the same amount of clearance. i measured standover just in front of the nose of the seat. does ellsworth measure theirs at the seat tube?

    while we're on the subject does anybody know the standover and bb height for the epiphany? all the ellsworth site says is +17.8 and +.5 respectively.
    Woops! I didn't mean to leave out the 5-spot , yet another bike you should consider. I almost bought the 5 Spot, but right when I was about to pull the trigger, Turner announced their design change, and to be honest, I lost the hype.

    I wanted to purchase my dream bike with the most up-to-date design philosophy, and Turner's "wouldn't be any worse than the original" philosohy really really put me off. I still want to try out a 5 Spot though, I'm sure they rock.

    I'll take some measurements of my EPI for when I get home.

    Oh, and as for the Moto-Lite, I don't know a bunch about it, i've ridden the racer-X and like it & my wife has the jamis xc comp which is also similar and rides great. So I figure that the moto-lite should be a little more "relaxed" and trail oriented. Can't get it anodized though, so piss on that idea!

    In summary: drop the Moto-Lite and add the ano 5-Spot to your list

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Whoa! You...don't...sleep with it do you?

    (we're thinking of getting a bigger bed so the bike isn't left out... )
    Of course not!! (my wife won't let me bring it into the house)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    i notice you "conveniently" left out the 5 spot, which i have also tested.
    So I'd like to hear your thoughts, how did the 5Spot compare to the Moment??

  21. #21
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    5 spot and moment are very different bikes, at least with the coil shocks and 6" travel on the moment. moment and 6 pack, are very similar. i also got to test ride a 6 pack on a trail, although it was also a medium and the trail was purely downhill. both feel like an expensive luxury car, maybe something your grandmother would drive. you don't feel the bumps and everything is buttery smooth. but i don't know how either climbs or takes tight turns. the 5 spot is much more sporty. i rode a horst link 5 spot on a very rocky, technical trail with some short but steep up and downs. i noticed the difference between it and my nrs immediately. the people i was with said they noticed that i was actually climbing faster on the 5 spot than i usually do on the nrs, and i'm known a bit as a climber. but at times i also felt like i couldn't keep the bike going in the direction i wanted to go on the technical climbs. that could also be because i needed more time to get used to it. it definitely felt more stable, but not really as much as either the 6 pack or moment. but again, my riding experience on both of those is very limited. when i started looking at the moment, i figured that air shocks and 5" would be more my style, but now i'm not as sure. maybe in that configuration it would ride more like a 5 spot.

  22. #22
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    Metaldork - at 5'6" you will surely need a Small unless you have a freakishly long arms. I'm 5'7" and there is no way I could have ridden the medium. The true standover on the small is closer to 30.5" when you have a 6" fork and 2.35 tires.
    Nothing to see here.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    Oh, and as for the Moto-Lite, I don't know a bunch about it, i've ridden the racer-X and like it & my wife has the jamis xc comp which is also similar and rides great. So I figure that the moto-lite should be a little more "relaxed" and trail oriented. Can't get it anodized though, so piss on that idea!

    In summary: drop the Moto-Lite and add the ano 5-Spot to your list
    The Titus Moto-lite is rated for a 145mm fork, and coil-over rear shocks.

    Plus, for the price of an EW frame, I believe you could get a custom Titus frame, which you certainly could get anodized.

  24. #24
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    pp, did you happen to get epiphany measurements? called my local dealer and he won't order one unless i commit to buy. wack. but he can get me a small 05 moment for 1900 and that's certainly interesting.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    pp, did you happen to get epiphany measurements? called my local dealer and he won't order one unless i commit to buy. wack. but he can get me a small 05 moment for 1900 and that's certainly interesting.
    Dude, that's a deal. With the money you save, you could get some light wheels and fork, upgrade to a DHX-Air to meet your target weight.

    My experience is thus: I ride a few trails a whole lot. Over the years, I've become faster and able to take on more challenges, ride longer, do extra loops and such. After a while, 4" of travel just wasn't enough. NOW, with this new bike (Moment), I can see myself tackling all those trails I've been riding, but adding some trails that I haven't ridden in the past and possibly doing some shuttle runs (something my wife has been itching to do!). It opens a whole new world of riding. For me, the Epiphany would be an extension of what I was already riding and not much change.

    If, however, you're coming from a HT or a short travel, XC type FS bike, the Epiphany would take you to that next level in performance. Presumably, you could ride that bike for 3-4 years before you might progress to something different, maybe longer travel, maybe rigid SS - who knows? In that sense, the Moment would be too long-legged, I think.

    So I guess the question is: Where are you going?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    pp, did you happen to get epiphany measurements? called my local dealer and he won't order one unless i commit to buy. wack. but he can get me a small 05 moment for 1900 and that's certainly interesting.
    No, my EPI is pulled apart right now, I had to send the RP3 back to Fox. Man down!

    If i remember correctly, the BB was 13.5" (with 2.1 navegals). And I have soo much standover, it feels like a BMX bike.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    So I guess the question is: Where are you going?
    well, that's a question, isn't it. basically i've been an xc'er for the last 4 years and want to start expanding my repertoire. while i'm generally pretty fast and can climb well, i'm usually the last one down hill. i've also recently started riding with some people who do more freeridey stuff, ladders and drops and what not. so this year i put bigger tires, a 120mm fork and 4" rockers on the giant and that helped a bit. i know there are riders who can do a lot more than i can with that bike, but i think i've gone as far as my talents will allow with it. so i'm looking for a bike that i can grow into. gain more confidence on the downhills and in my balance on ladders, log rides or whatever without losing xc ability. and also if i'm gonna be spending so much money, i don't want to feel like i've compromised. right now it looks like the moment is what's gonna fit that bill. seems like i could start out with say a dhx air in 5" mode and some lighter components and work my way up with the same frame. so that's where i'm coming from.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    well, that's a question, isn't it. basically i've been an xc'er for the last 4 years and want to start expanding my repertoire. while i'm generally pretty fast and can climb well, i'm usually the last one down hill. i've also recently started riding with some people who do more freeridey stuff, ladders and drops and what not. so this year i put bigger tires, a 120mm fork and 4" rockers on the giant and that helped a bit. i know there are riders who can do a lot more than i can with that bike, but i think i've gone as far as my talents will allow with it. so i'm looking for a bike that i can grow into. gain more confidence on the downhills and in my balance on ladders, log rides or whatever without losing xc ability. and also if i'm gonna be spending so much money, i don't want to feel like i've compromised. right now it looks like the moment is what's gonna fit that bill. seems like i could start out with say a dhx air in 5" mode and some lighter components and work my way up with the same frame. so that's where i'm coming from.
    I think i'm right in saying that the DHX air will give you 6" of travel- it's only the Float R that has 2" stroke that gives just over 5", both the DHX coil and air have 2.25" stroke, good thing in my book.
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  29. #29
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    Yeah, that's right. There's no changing travel by changing shock mounts, you have to have a different shock.

    But, the bike is so efficient, that even at 6" of travel, it's not going to affect climbing and can only be of value on descents and drops.

    I'd recommend maybe a DHX-Air and a Pike Air or Z1 SL, all light, bomb-proof options. They say, though that the DHX-Air is perhaps more suited to DH/FR riding. Maybe the RP3 would be a good option now until you get into bigger stuff. I probably should have done this, but the DHX is just so SWEET! Live and learn, live and learn...

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